#Anyway this interpretation obviously means a lot to me

[gingermintpepper]

I would love to hear you talk about Kassandra???

So, what can I say about Kassandra.

Well, firstly, I've been thinking about how I want to answer this question since I got it however many months ago and I figured I wanted to speak about my own interpretation of things rather than formal stuff - half because I don't want to cite anything since going through Iliad based papers brings me little joy and half because I figure I could treat it a bit more casually this way. So here's like, a very brief selection of thoughts I have about Kassandra, Saintess of Troy.

I view her tale as a microcosm of the wider tale of the Fall of Troy from Apollo's perspective. A human is given a choice and, of their own free-will, they make the most destructive decision ignorant of the way they're sealing their own fate and no matter how much their patron will want to save and help them, they will be unable to so much as lift a meaningful finger because the choice made is one that is sealed in Fate and powers far beyond any one god. The themes of doomed love are also shared; Kassandra loved Apollo just as Apollo loved her but she couldn't be what he wanted of her. She couldn't accept what it was he was offering, no matter how much power, honour and love he tried to tempt her with and in a lot of ways, I think of her devastating visions of doom and death(tm) as a physical parallel to the feelings Helen must be tormented with knowing that she will be cited as the reason of such mass death, destruction and violence. Likewise, I see Apollo's inability to save Kassandra up until the end as representative of his wider inability to save Troy. All his love and blessing were not enough, even though all she had to do was take his hand, it simply wasn't meant to be and so I imagine that must be a fresh hurt for him with each beloved mortal he loses during the campaign.

Kassandra is genuinely so interesting? Both as a character and as a narrative idea; she sits almost in the center of so many fascinating parallels and foils that it gets me so excited whenever she comes up in conversation! I've mentioned it briefly before but she forms a very neat triad with Iphigenia and Troilus which runs parallel to the three dominant male powers in Iliad - Agamemnon, Achilles and Apollo. They're what I somewhat refer to as the sacrifice trio, innocents who must ultimately be abandoned and stripped away for the sake of the desire of their sacrificer, in turn revealing something intrinsic about the nature of the man. For Iphigenia, she reveals that Agamemnon truly values his ambition over all, that his image and status as a leader is more meaningful to him than the love of his family (which, of course, dooms him in the end). Likewise, for Achilles, Troilus' sacrifice reveals that no matter the glamour or glory that crowns Achilles' head, his rage is ultimately his most powerful feeling and it burns bright and hot no matter the circumstance, opponent or arena. For Apollo, Kassandra's sacrifice (which is much more symbolic as he is a god and therefore need not actually physically kill her) reveals his position as the 'loser', one who will be scorned and reviled and lose all the things he loves no matter how closely he cherishes or adorns them. He can't protect the mortals he's blessed, he can't protect his children - he can't even save one woman. She also has that aforementioned triad with Helen and Andromache - the sequestered women; doomed to wait and pray but each, in their own ways working to save and support their own in the conflict. They're all haunted by the promise of what awaits them - Andromache's hopes and future lies with Hector and with her son yet she is the embodiment of a war-wife, solid and stoic in her support when Hector returns but suffering deeply knowing each fight could be his last. Helen, of course, carries with her both the suffering of the greek women and the hatred of their men - if Andromache fears death taking the breath from her beloved fighters then Helen bears the weight of death upon her shoulders, all grief and scorn is bore like a crown upon her head and she must bear it. It is her duty to bear it. Kassandra then becomes the suffering of the young women - they who are surrounding on all sides by throngs of death and do not know why it has come, they whose screams intermix with that of the dead upon them. There is no avatar for Kassandra to experience the war through, no reason for her to be stoic or strong or upright. She tears her hair, hysterical at the suffering that is poured into her mind day in and day out, wild and unrestrained where her elders must hold their grief and tame it. In this way, she gives voice to the voiceless, she screams for those who cannot and is reviled for it - a young woman surrounded by death yet ordered not to speak a word of its stench or horror. There's many more things I can talk about too such as the whole Kassandra as Apollo's living Palladium thing or the Kassandra-Electra-Clytemnestra trio or even Chryseis as a reflection of Kassandra and how the taking of a priest's daughter could be seen as tantamount to trying to steal away Kassandra (and how this eventually wraps back around to the actual incident of Kassandra being stolen away and ending up right back under Agamemnon's care just as Chryseis before her) but like, we would be here all day.

Y'all maybe this is a hot take but scorned woman Kassandra is like, the most boring interpretation of her ever. She has so much life and passion in her, so much joy, so much despair, so much love - making her jaded and cynical towards both her fate and her god is such a slap in the face to me of what her character could and generally does seem to stand for. Kassandra never stopped loving Apollo - likewise, Apollo (at least to me) never abandoned her. All in Troy suffer heavy, cursed fates - Kassandra is one of the few who at least had some awareness of how hers would turn out. I like that she's a fighter. I like that she screams and cries and spits and is expressive and ugly in her torment and grief when so many of the women around her cannot afford to be. I like that she said no and despite how much she suffered for it, she never begged for her yolk to be taken from her because she knew that the choice she made was the right one for her. She's raw, she's vivid, she's human and more than anything, that's what I love so much about her.

[quietwingsinthesky]

Dean is such a paradox for me because on the one hand, I have been actively triggered by him in the show, there are moments where, intentionally or not, the writers managed to create a portrayal of manipulation and abuse and control issues that it sets off actual alarms for me. And on the other hand, I would not have him any other way. There is something — not comforting, that’s too soft a word — about knowing where Dean’s actions stem from, having seen and learned all that we do about his childhood neglect and parentification and the trauma he goes through repeatedly in the show, and that he doesn’t come out clean. He comes out a goddamn mess who ends up hurting the people around him in reaction to his own pain!

There’s a reality there that’s. Almost nice, actually. Distressing to watch, but it is a fucking mess, it’s a good mess! He’s got zero healthy coping skills and a healthy relationship with say, his brother, is terrifying because it leaves him open to abandonment!

I’m not sure I’m wording this correctly. There is a way to be a good abuse victim. Take the pain, martyr yourself on it, and then, even if you have no support or idea how to, then you have to become a Good Person who never hurts anyone the way you have been learning to your entire life. Simply toss everything that shaped you out the door and emerge a saint with a tragic backstory. And Dean is not that. And that’s so fucking good. Everything that he has gone through continues to effect the way he treats the people around him, and he can’t fight the behaviors he might recognize as harmful because he also sees them as protecting him (or protecting Sam by keeping Sam with him.)

And sometimes, idk. It feels good to see a guy who didn’t heal the “right way.” Who mostly didn’t heal at all, just keeps the wound open because it’s easier that way.

[st4rstudent]

Giant cornplate post here but I'll get my thoughts out anyways. I really like how even visually Mac and Winn are contrasting yet similar. Winn's main color is yellow and Mac's is purple, which are contrasting colors. Yet, they both wear green. And then both of them having glasses but they're different shapes (circle vs square). and ouuughhoguhgh. theyre good friends. i like them.

[spearxwind]

Thinking about the time i commissioned an artist i rly liked for something and the result was kind of really catastrophic just from the preview image in the email so i just. never opened the actual image

[therantingsage]

Because I promised this, and I really wanted to do it anyway, here's a really really long-winded rambling dissertation on:

Why N and Uzi secretly dating since before episode 5 is genuinely super plausible and also stupidly hilarious /pos

Under the cut cuz it got obscenely long oops-

Idk where to start, so I'll just cover my bases: why people think they've been in a relationship already in the first place.

We all saw this scene:

And legit it can only be implying one of two things. Either A: this is his confession of feelings for her. Or B: this is him admitting that they've been dating for a while at this point. With the hearts it's pretty clear that this statement is meant to be romantically interpreted, and Nori's aghast reaction confirms that that's how it's being interpreted.

Obviously no matter the interpretation, N only writes that because he can't think of anything else to snap Uzi out of it and thereby stop this confrontation from ending poorly. And it works obviously so good on him for the quick thinking.

Two things that make me lean towards the 'we're dating' interpretation over 'confession' interpretation, though: firstly, he's not writing this to tell Uzi something, he specifically calls out to Nori before writing it. "Hey btw I'm dating your daughter" makes more sense than "Hey btw I like your daughter romantically" because if it was the latter, Nori has far less reason to be mad at Uzi about it rather than N. It's not like Uzi can control how N feels. But if they're dating, that means Uzi is partially to blame for that and Nori can get upset at HER.

Secondly, the awkward wording. Like it's really vague and without the hearts you'd have no reason to assume anything but platonic meaning. But these are words we, and him, have heard before:

...from Uzi, in response to a question about who she is and, by proxy, the nature of their relationship. She says it defensively, follows it up by telling N to shut up. N repeating her wording which, again, is a description of the nature of their relationship....but this time implying something romantic with it, it suggests the idea that it had romantic implications the first time.

I don't think it's far-fetched to say Uzi at least has feelings for N at this point in the story. I don't think anyone's arguing that that's not true. But the idea that 'hang out' means the exact same thing both times is what I'm arguing here. They're dating, but this version of N is a stranger to her. A cute stranger, as she says, but a stranger nonetheless who she isn't comfortable admitting to that she's dating him in the future to his face.

Backing up a bit, Uzi's reaction to Nori's reaction:

This is a clear and obvious parallel to the previous episode, when 'Tessa' says "Don't date my robot, please."

In both instances, someone gets on her case about the idea of them dating, and in both cases she doesn't deny it but instead defends both his and her own agency in the matter. No one is allowed to tell them what to do and Uzi refuses to let anyone try.

When Nori says it, though, she does seem to try and deny it for a moment. "I'm not-" She cuts herself off so we can't say for certain what she was going to say (if anything. it's entirely possible she started that sentence with no plan how to finish it, I do that a lot personally). But that's also because, like, she's Uzi. If this was meant to be a secret relationship, it would probably be her who made that decision. And like with butler N, she has no reason to disclose that kind of information to a stranger. She'd probably try and deny it whether its true or not.

As for when it would've started, after camp is the only big timeskip where we don't have much clue went on during. Cabin Fever is a big episode for them, and the three episodes that come after it are all back-to-back-to-back. The only time it makes sense to have started is sometime between eps 4 and 5.

And guys. Guys.

This, more than anything to me, paired with the idea that they've been dating for a while by the time the most recent couple episodes happen.....doesn't this seem so, so romantic? You could easily call this a love confession! So easily! It sounds like one much more than 'we just kinda are hanging out a lot idk' at least.

Like, rephrase that even a little: "Being with you makes scary things fun. Being with you makes me feel brave. It makes me feel safe. So I want to keep being with you."

And Uzi agrees with that sentiment. He promises to stick with her. And she laughs and smiles with him as he makes the scary thing she's been dealing with into something fun, something they can laugh about. The together line gets repeated in the most recent episode, directly calling back to this scene as well.

Like, just...AGH. In Cabin Fever he says it once as they're falling and a second time once they're grounded. The second time its a question, and one she eagerly answers with physical affection, which is super rare for her. In Mass Destruction its a statement, because he already knows her answer. Its a repeated promise. A vow.

Backing up again. Let's assess some interactions under this context. Assuming they're dating in secret. Because it paints so many things in a different light and basically nothing contradicts it which is fricken wild. This:

Isn't a sheepish Uzi trying to hold her crush's hand in a moment of fear. This is an Uzi who wants to keep their relationship a secret but is so in need of comfort right now she's willing to risk exposing them to get it.

This:

Her being so relieved because she almost watched him die but he's alive he's ok and she doesn't care who sees it because she needs to hug her boyfriend rIGHT NOW GUYS I DON'T CARE I'M HUGGING MY BOYFRIEND-

This whole scene. Uzi interacts with him so gently here. She's not gentle with anybody else at all. She sees him stressed and uses his own "you good?" on him and it's just so dang tender when you think about it. Because no one else can hear them talking to each other. It's just these two sending face texts and everyone else's focus is on the Sentinal so they can afford to be as couple-y in this conversation as they want.

And after:

Blushing because they like each other so so dang much.......sweating bullets because the other two can see them do this. Suddenly without either of them really thinking about it they're being romantic around other people and wow! That's nerve-wracking! Peak young love early-in-the-relationship behavior they ain't slick.

His tone of voice in this scene is gentler I think than we've ever heard from him before (Michael Kovach you are so damn good at your job). His loss-filled fury is cooled in an instant when he realizes how close he came to hurting his girlfriend. It's heartbreakingly gentle before 'Tessa' cuts him off.

And when she cuts Uzi off:

He looks like genuinely pissed at her. "Did you really just interrupt my gf while she was talking?? She's scared and you're disrespecting her tf is wrong with u??"

And like- the fact he was genuinely willing to off Tessa for her. Like he realizes there's a possibility she tried to get his gf killed for no reason and upon her not even trying to deny it he just kills her instantly. Because it's no longer a question of the universe or Uzi. It's a question of Tessa or Uzi, and its a choice his heart has already made before this point.

But here's like. The thing about all this that gets me. This is meant to be a secret relationship, right? Like nobody but them is supposed to know about this. And the fact that we the audience didn't have any reason to assume them to be an established relationship without heavy headcanoning means they did a decent job at that, right?

Guys. Guys.

N is terrible at keeping secrets. Like. Horrendously bad at keeping things on the down-low. Every single time in the series he's supposed to not spill info he like. Fails. It's wild. And because the relationship happens after "Inclusive reflexes!" that means that Uzi damn well knows this and still trusts him to try.

But based on V's reaction to the handholding in Dead End:

I'm honestly willing to bet she knew. She doesn't sound surprised, just annoyed that she has to see it. Which means N probably like, heard her badmouthing Uzi or something and got like way too defensive about it and she clocked him instantly. Because he's bad at keeping secrets. And she doesn't bother mentioning it during any of these episodes out loud because she doesn't care what these idiots do in their free time.

Can you imagine how many hundred close calls they must've had? How many times Uzi must've had to aggressively shush him or cover his mouth because he was going to say something slightly too sappy in public? The only reason we don't get to see the time period between eps 4 and 5 is because it would've been painfully obvious that these two dating is the worst kept secret in the entire bunker. I'm going insane.

Uzi fell in love with a proud himbo and they both know it. It's genuinely a miracle they didn't clue the audience in sooner.

[gacha-incels]

“Arknights/Limbus Company/etc is obviously very political, why are these incels playing it?” Here’s a longer answer if you’re interested.

If you haven’t been watching gacha communities for the past decade this might be confusing to you, but these guys see the games as just apolitical stories with a majority or all-female cast being there to titillate the male viewer. They are for his consumption. It’s why in both eastern and western “gacha game” communities you can see them talking about how these games are better for having “beautiful” anime women versus the hideous hags of western media. I’ve seen so many people asking “how are incels playing a game with so many strong female characters?” They see them not as “strong female” characters but rather “eyecandy made for me”. tbh when it comes down to it I wouldn’t call any of the designs in these games absolutely groundbreaking for the anime genre they’re aiming for. Arknights even follows the standard “fully animal faced-guy” and the female equivalent “small featured anime animal girl with some fur”. This doesn’t mean the designs are bad or you’re foolish for enjoying them of course, there are a lot of fun ones. Anyway, you can see the same sentiment in the majority of anime communities as well. Like do you think that stereotype of an anime nerd who “loves 2D women but hates 3D women” means he’s a feminist because the 2D girl is still female?

To be frank, after some of the actions taken by these companies (ex. the firing of women for posting anything vaguely feminist) can you honestly say an “apolitical game with anime babes” is not the way the games are often enjoyed? The company Yostar who publishes Arknights in Korea literally wrote a statement saying the game is apolitical and calling feminism a dividing force. If the publisher can say something so flippantly like this just to appease their incel fanbase, how can the game be making any meaningful, hardline progressive political statements? I am of course not saying this renders any positive message you get from these games moot nor am I saying it’s impossible for the writers to be passionate about their work, I’m just relaying the thoughts of the incels/“gacha gamers” playing them because there seems to be confusion. What I’m writing here doesn’t mean the worst interpretation of these games are their defining interpretations. I’m trying to explain how the games that many people see as being antithetical to incel beliefs can have these same men as high-spending fans.

Gacha games are unique in the world of consumer media in their extremely close and constant relationship with the consumer. You have to not only love each character’s design (and sometimes story) but also be willing to drop serious gambling money to “buy” them every single month. It’s like merchandizing on steroids. I think the term “whale” has been watered down since younger kids have started playing, but these people spend thousands per patch. Over the years I’ve heard about multiple games like this being sustained by just a couple of high spenders. In 2018 there was even a western news article about a man who had spent $70k+ on FGO. The publisher can’t rock the boat too much to displease the consumer too many times without risking EoS. Every character design and story of a gacha game is affected by this FIRST while any artistic intent comes second.

A Korean woman who had lost her job due to similar “feminist hunting” tactics wrote an article describing the way these incel men think. I posted it here and part of it summarized: the men that play these games see themselves as buying and “owning” the female characters in gacha games, who are often dressed and presented to them in a highly sexualized manner and will obey their commands. In the same way they “own” these 2D women, they also want to own the thoughts of the real live female illustrators who work on the games. Therefore, if these women have expressed ideas that the male gamers find upsetting, they will be angry she doesn’t conform to what they want like the servile 2D girl and do everything to get her fired (this is where she mentions Limbus Company as the most recent example of this happening).

You can argue for some of these games, maybe the girls aren’t dressed super provocatively and give (you) shit instead of being a simpering doll, but in the end it’s not like they can physically walk away or stop speaking to you. For the “waifu” hunter guy it’s just a different type of anime girl to collect.

The stories in these games are generally not what gets targeted as much by incels. In gacha “gamer” communities, especially the Korean incel ones, their main concerns are: how revealing are the summer swimsuits? How many women work for the company designing characters? and related, Are the male characters designed for women or for men and do they “look gay”? If you search through this blog, you can see them directly speaking about these things in regards to their hatred of Genshin Impact and Star Rail. All of these have also been encapsulated in the original Limbus Company incel attack: they hated that the summer female character looked more “clothed” (wearing a skintight suit instead of a bikini) than the male summer character. They thought the collar necklace and open shirt on the male summer character meant he was “a slave” for the female viewers, so obviously it was designed by a woman. When they learned a man designed and illustrated those characters, they searched to find a female illustrator who worked in the game and went after her instead. These guys WERE FANS that played the game beforehand and didn’t think anything in the story was upsetting enough to attack the company about. They were familiar enough with the works of Project Moon to name their little group after an antagonizing force in one of PM’s previous (non-gacha) videogames. And Project Moon saw them as such a significant part of their gacha fanbase that they wrote an immediate apology and fired the artist. How do these actions in reality inform their fiction and the interpretation of it? Getting this out of the way, they were NOT in any danger, the “fans” were not clamoring to get in their offices or camping outside, they were let in and calmly had a meeting with some employees at the office. You can still find photos of them goofing around, the ridiculous write up they brought with them and a transcript of the conversation. This was not a “guy shows up at Mihoyo’s offices with a knife” situation. In the end it was a financial and moral loss for the studio with many new and longtime fans completely dropping the games and Limbus Company taking one of the biggest financial and D/MAU drops for a gacha I’ve ever seen. You can read more regarding the ramifications of this here, this post is already pretty long for this website anyway.

Again I’m not writing this to shame anyone who plays these games, loves their characters or enjoys their stories. I don’t really care either way, and I obviously find the genre interesting or else I wouldn’t have been monitoring it and the fans for a decade. I just want to shine a light on the thoughts of the more “incel” gamers that play some of these games since I have seen a lot of genuine confusion as to why they would play them. In the future my aim is to write a more in-depth post about these issues, their history and the way antifeminists think.

[karlatakicker]

RUIN SPOILERS!!

i’m very attached to roxanne, and after the dlc i am very attached to cassie too! so here’s my thoughts on the both of them and why their relationship is just so unbelievably special to me

1. it’s implied that they both don’t really have any friends, as sad as it is. Roxanne says to Cassie in their conversation that she thinks that her friends will come to her party this time, which obviously means Cassie’s friends are either nonexistent or aren’t very nice. it’s also implied that Roxanne is disliked by the other children in the pizzaplex because of her desire to win and lack of empathy thus unawareness that children are upset by the idea of losing. so, the idea of them both becoming friends and acknowledging each-other is truly special if they have nobody else.

2. Roxanne’s desire to win on her race track is overridden by her kindness and feelings towards Cassie. in their conversation Roxanne remembers Cassie because she beat her twice on the track, which leads to Roxanne almost sounding proud despite being beaten which she usually expresses anger for. (I’ve been told this doesn’t mean what I think, Number 1 twice refers to Cassie’s birthday, but you can argue that it still shows something between them by the fact Roxanne is willing to say Cassie is Number 1, despite Roxanne constantly wanting to be Number 1.)

3. Cassie’s clear empathy towards Roxanne as her favourite - she pities and feels for Roxanne when she’s crying in the salon. despite seeing the horrid conditions that all the other animatronics are in, Roxanne as Cassie’s favourite is the only one she truly feels for.

4. Roxanne’s infatuation with herself does not inflict with her remembering details about Cassie. Roxy asking about and sharing Cassie’s love of carrot cake (and remembering her birthday) shows an attachment that Roxanne seems to have with no-one else, as thinking of herself does not conflict with thinking of Cassie.

5. in the cutouts of Cassie and Roxanne standing side by side, they’re mirrored. Cassie has similar makeup on to Roxy, and is holding her mirror the exact same way. Cassie wants to be exactly like Roxanne, to the point of copying her actions and being dolled up like her. these images of the two of them are simply to establish a connection between them, so it hurts a lot more when it comes down to de-activating Roxanne.

6. Roxanne, despite being so angered at the idea of not being pretty and being so damaged, has no hesitation in jumping to save Cassie despite possibly getting more damaged or even being completely broken because of it.

7. the line “it has been some time since i saw you last” can be interpreted as Roxanne had thought of Cassie since the last time she had been to the pizzaplex. it makes their reunion all that more heartbreaking because when Roxanne meets her again, it’s for Cassie to deactivate her.

8. Roxanne asking if Cassie had booked her party yet, is essentially Roxy asking if Cassie was going to come back and see her - Cassie, the only kid that Roxy is shown to have a connection with.

9. Cassie stroking Roxanne’s fingers before deactivating her, as if to give her the last comfort she’ll ever feel.

anyway that ends my rant. they’re just so special to me despite them having like 3 interactions. they are the true little sister/big sister animatronic and human pairing we needed. if I don’t get an ending where they’re sitting on the hill eating carrot cake, the developers are going to get a very strongly worded email.

(just to clarify months on from this post, the developers have received a very strongly worded email.)

[zombiigrll]

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NEGANS DAUGHTER. ⋆｡°✩ carl grimes x reader .ᐟ WORD COUNT .ᐟ ⭑ 2.7K ꩜ .ᐟ SUMMARY ⭑ you prove yourself to your boyfriends father. .ᐟ A/N .ᐟ ⭑ sorry this took a million years to come out </3 i've been WAY to busy T_T i feel like this ended kind of.. confusing/unrealistically... but its fanFICTION. so its whateva!! anyways i hope you guys enjoy :3 (also, if u guys REALLY want a part 3 i'll write one, but i mostly wanted this to be a fic where you can interpret the ending yourself! but i wouldn't be opposed to writing a part 3 it just might take a while as i work on my series :p ) .ᐟ read part 1 here .ᐟ ⭑

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you stayed the night at carls. you didn't mean to, but after a while of talking, and getting to really know each other, the two of you had grown tired. so, you ended up falling asleep in his arms.

but no one knew you were there. not until rick opened the door that morning.

"hey, carl. wake up-" rick spoke before quickly stopping, taking out his gun as he spotted you next to his son.

you quickly put your hands up, stand up and step away from carl as your chest goes up and down as your breaths quickened. carl, of course, quickly woke up to the loud noises.

"what are you doing here? and who are.." rick yells, but stops himself as he examines your features. "wait.. you're negans daughter, aren't you?"

you nodded. "yes, i.." your voice trembled as you looked around.

"dad, stop!" carl quickly intervened as he processed what was going on, stepping in front of you. "she's not like them. she's nice, she's not going to hurt us."

"how do you know?" rick glares at his son. "she's still a savior. we can't trust her."

carl continues to argue back and forth with rick, staying firmly in front of you. "we can't bring her back out there!" he yells back, using his hands to accentuate his words. he's visibly shaking in anger at his fathers words.

rick lets out a deep sigh before continuing. "if that's what you really believe, then fine. but i think we need to keep her locked up and get more information. i don't trust it."

carl scoffs. "are you kidding me?-"

"that's fine." you cut him off before he can continue speaking. "i'll go with you."

rick nods at you and carls eyes widen. "seriously y/n?"

"yes, carl. i don't care." you step forward, up to rick. "i didn't expect him to be fine with me being here. if that's what makes him comfortable, then i'll do it."

carl shakes his head in defeat, following you and rick out the door.

...

you were now officially locked up in alexandria. rick had pulled up two chairs on the opposite side of the dark cell. carl sat in one, arms crossed and obviously quite annoyed, while rick sat properly in the other.

carl had brought your bag with him, and it laid by his feet.

carl's leg moves up and down off the floor anxiously, his face covered in frustration. "this is so stupid, she's obviously not a threat-"

"well then she needs to prove that, doesn't she?" rick retorts, shutting carl up instantly.

you nodded understandingly, sitting against the bars of the cell. "how can i prove it?"

rick silently thinks for a moment, clasping his hands together. "you can start by telling us about your father."

"there's a lot to know about him." you chuckled lightly to yourself, leaning your head against the bars and looking up at the two on the other side. "what exactly do you want to know?"

"his motives. why is he doing this?"

you clenched your hands together, anxiety rushing through your body.

"he's.. trying to make civilization or something." your voice trembled. "he thinks for every crime there needs to be punishment. that's why he killed.. your people." your body language softened as you began taking in everything happening. "..what are you going to do to my dad?"

rick stayed silent, except for a quiet sigh, which basically answered your question.

"your friend daryl should be out of the sanctuary now." you blurted out.

"what?" rick quickly stood up and walked up to the cell, his hand laying on the bars.

"i saw one of my dads wives slip a note under his cell. when i went out to leave and come here, a motorcycle was gone." you explained yourself anxiously. ricks eyes looked deep into yours, a sense of aggression and concern coming from him.

"do you know where he could be headed to?" ricks voice shakes as he speaks to you.

you shake your head. "no, i don't." you feel like your story could be sounding like bullshit, but you were telling the truth. "i'd assume he would be coming here, but he would've been here before me. maybe hilltop? somewhere with your people, probably."

rick pushes off of the cell bars and walks out of the room, pulling his walkie-talkie out as he shuts the door.

you sit with carl in silence for a moment. he looks shaken up, and honestly a bit frustrated.

"..sorry." you lowered your head onto the bars. you didn't know why exactly you were sorry, you just knew you were.

he looked back up at you, his expression changing to confusion. "what? why?"

you hid your face away from him as tears started flooding your eyes. so much was happening, even if it wasn't necessarily your fault. you worried that you made the whole situation worth.

"for everything." your voice cracked as you moved the back of your head against the bars to make sure he didn't see you crying. "my dad, your friends.. it just sucks. i wish i could've done something sooner to stop him."

carl quickly walks up to the cell, sitting down to look at you. "hey.." he leans his back against the bars, looking at you the best he can. "you're not your father. i'm sure everyone can tell that, even my dad."

"i think your dad hates me." you laugh at his comment.

"i'm serious, y/n." he turns the upper-half of his body to face you more.

you stay looking away from him. "i need to go back to the sanctuary."

"why? you're safer here."

"me being here puts you all in danger. if i'm gone any longer, my dad might come here." you stand up and try opening the cell, which rick obviously locked previously.

"my dad has the keys, he's not gonna let you out." carl stands up with you, putting his hands on the other side of the bar.

you felt so angry. but you didn't know exactly where the anger was placed to. you felt so much at once. your heart was racing, and you could just hear static going through your brain. you laid your head against the cell, defeated.

..until you remembered you had a bobby pin in your hair.

of course, with your dad being negan, you knew how to pick locks. you began picking it as carl continued speaking to you, not even noticing what you were doing.

"it'll be fine. i'm sure your dad trusts you enough to let you go out on your own."

you shook your head, continuing to pick the lock. "you don't know my dad. i barely know my dad. by the time i came back after dropping you off, he already had a few people out ready to come get me."

"just stay. for a little while longer. please." carl begged, looking at you before finally realizing what was going on. "what're you doing-"

you cut him off by swinging the cell door open. "it's fine, carl. i'll be back." you grabbed your bag and tried walking out the door, but carl quickly blocked you

"are you kidding me?" he put his arm on the wall, preventing you from getting past.

"carl." you sternly spoke, looking him dead in the eyes. your eyes quickly softened, however, as you brought your hands up to the sides of his face. "i'll be back as soon as i can. i promise. i have to try and make sure me coming over here didn't get you guys into more shit."

carl moves his hand up to your wrist, looking down at you anxiously. but after a moment of hesitation, he nods. "please be safe."

"don't worry about me." your lips turn up into a grin before you lean to kiss him.

he moves his hands down to your waist to pull you closer, leaving one hand on your side and the other on the back of your neck. you could tell by his body language that he didn't want you to go, but you knew you had to. he knew that, too.

you pulled away, despite his protest. your smile turned somber as you looked up at him. "i'll see you soon. i promise."

"wait." he grabs his walkie talkie and hands it to you. "i have another one somewhere. i don't know if this will be in reach with the sanctuary, but please try and call me when you're safe."

you nodded, pulling him in for one last hug. he held you tightly, leaving a kiss on the crown of your forehead before letting go.

"i love you." he smiled warmly at you.

"i love you too, carl."

...

you snuck back out of alexandria and back to where you had left your motorcycle. you rode it as fast as possible, speeding back to the sanctuary.

luckily, you hadn't seen any saviors yet. the roads were clear, except for a few walkers that you simply just sped past. you had to get back to the sanctuary as soon as possible.

and after a while, you finally arrived.

it was similar to how you arrived after dropping carl off. negan was standing by a car with a few saviors that were geared up. they quickly noticed you, and your father didn't seem happy either.

you parked and took your helmet off. negan ran up to you and hugged you tightly.

"where were you?" his voice was stern, but also soft. he was worried.

"i just went out for a bit." you returned his hug, but quickly pushed away. "..can i talk to you, dad?"

negan looks at you confused before nodding. "okay."

he signals that the saviors can come back inside before continuing to follow you to one of the old conference rooms.

you sat down at the end of the tables, and negan sat down on the other so he could look at you.

"so, what's up?" he smiles warmly at you, which you anxiously return.

you messed with your nailbeds nervously. you knew how he would react, but you had to ask. "i can't live like this anymore."

that was the only thing that you could spit out. probably the worst way you could've worded it, but you could tell it got your point across the way negans face dropped.

"what?" was all negan could spit out from that sentence.

you stood up and began pacing around as you spoke. it was the only thing that could even slightly calm your nerves. "the way that you run things. i know i'm your child and i've grown up around this, but i know right from wrong. i'm sure you do, too."

his eyebrows furrowed as he clasped his hands together, placing them on the table. "go on."

"i know why you do it. you've told me a million times. but i can't stand it anymore, dad." you stopped pacing, looking him straight in the eye. "i can't watch you kill people like that. not again."

"then i wont take you again, easy as that-"

"no, dad." you quickly cut him off, your voice raising slightly as you become more infuriated. "i can't let you kill people like that either."

negan simply huffs in response, standing up and walking over to you. "this is how we live now. how do you suppose you'll stop it?"

you stay silent for a moment, just thinking. he puts a hand on his shoulder and goes to speak, but you stop him.

"i'll leave."

his face drops. he moves his hand off of your shoulder and presses his lips together. you've never seen him look so distraught before, at least with you.

"you'll never see me again."

"where would you go?" negan finally speaks, his expression glum and his voice firm.

"anywhere but here. i'd go far away just to get away from here." tears started forming in your eyes as you tried to keep your composure. "maybe you'll find me. maybe you'll kill me, i don't care. because i'll be away from this."

"this is how we live-"

"this is not living!" you yell, tears finally falling down your cheeks.

when he didn't respond, you grabbed your bag and walked towards the door. but, he grabbed your wrist. "hey-"

"don't leave." negans voice remained firm, but you could tell he was upset. "what can i do for you to accept that this is just the way things are?"

you give him a look that screams 'are you stupid?' before you continue speaking. "nothing. because i wont accept it." you move his hand away from your wrist. "i love you, dad. but i can't keep living with the fact that we're just.. murdering people."

negan looks at you blankly and you take it as your opportunity to exit. except before you could close the door behind you, something stopped it.

negans foot.

"what?" you turned around to look at him.

"fine." he breathily says, wiping his eyes quickly. "i'll.. i'll figure it out."

you smiled at him, letting your tears fall as you hugged him tightly. even if it seemed like it to him in the moment, you didn't want to leave him. he was your father, not many people had that luxury of still having a parent alive nowadays. but it's the only way you thought that he would listen to you, and he did.

he hugged you back. "i'm not losing you, too."

...

you didn't know what your dad was going to do now. hell, he didn't even know what he was going to do now. but, you knew that you needed to call carl. you walked back over to your room and locked the door, pulling the walkie-talkie out as fast as possible and calling.

"hello? this is y/n. is carl there?" you asked, but just got static as an answer.

'maybe i need to get a bit closer.'

you walked back outside of your room, and negan was standing right outside. you put your hands behind your back quickly, hiding the walkie-talkie.

"hey, dad."

he smiled, hugging you with one of his arms. "are you heading out again?"

"..yeah." you nodded nervously. "not too far. i just need some air."

"alright. try and be back by dinner, alright?" negan smiled at you. you nodded back and him, putting the walkie-talkie in your pocket as you walked back towards your motorcycle.

you rode out a bit, towards the area you'd usually roam to when you needed space. as you rode, you occasionally turned the radio on to check if you were in range.

as you approached your hangout area, you set your motorcycle down and turned your radio on.

"hellooo.. this is y/n, i'm calling for carl." you repeated for the thousandth time.

there was static, but just before you turned it off again, you heard his voice.

"y/n!"

"carl?" you exclaimed happily.

"holy shit, are you okay?" carl asked through the radio, his voice seemingly laced with concern, but he also seemed happy to hear your voice.

"yes, i'm okay." you nodded, your smile not leaving your face. "i told my dad that.. i'd leave if he didn't stop. he's gonna try and figure something out."

"that might not go over that easy with my dad, y'know?"

"i know. but i won't let him kill anyone else. all i ask if that you don't let your dad kill mine." you lightly chuckle, which he returns.

carl stays silent for a moment. "could you come back over here?"

"i can try. why? what's up?"

"i'd feel better knowing you're here with me while all of this goes on." his voice is a bit more quiet over the radio, but loud enough where you could still hear it.

"of course." you started getting back onto your motorcycle as you spoke to him. "i'll always be there when you need me."

you could hear him laugh on the other side. "thank you. i'll see you soon then?"

"yep. love you!" you happily replied.

"love you, too, y/n."

you rode off back towards alexandria. this time, instead of feeling so anxious and stressed, you felt happy.

you didn't know what was going to happen after you arrived at alexandria. how rick would react, the other alexandrians, the people effected by your fathers actions.. but you did know that you'd figure out how to make it right.

─────────────────── ⋆⋅☆⋅⋆ ────────────────────

[fumifooms]

Analysis of Laios’ succubus and theories on what it means - deep dive on Laios’ desires in human connections

Laios’ succubus is a very odd incident. I have some particular interpretations of why it was Marcille, and why things went down the way they did.

We know that a succubus shows what one desires, stated in canon as “an alluring form”; yes often in a romantic or sexual sense, as seen with Chilchuck’s succubus being entirely set on looks and seduction, meanwhile Marcille’s does have a focus on chivalrous noble demeanor as well, showing romantic behavior and personality. BUT with Izutsumi we also see that the liaison doesn’t have to be romantic or sexual at all, either, in Izutsumi’s case it’s a familial bond she craves. So perhaps we can say that the succubus exploits a desire based on connection, in whichever form that takes. Marcille wants an emotional connection foremost(which is also reflected in how it’s a character she knows very well and not a stranger. Perhaps romantic.), Chilchuck wants pleasure(a simple pleasure not unlike alcohol, perhaps such a connection is free of the more risky or unpleasant parts of a relationship, he doesn’t have to worry or to think and can just let himself go. Sexual.), Izutsumi wants a mother figure that can offer her warmth and comfort with who she doesn’t have to be tough (Familial), and I believe Laios’ is platonic and centered on his desire to have people with who he belongs and can be himself with…

But Laios’ case is more complex, it has layers. The thing is, even if Laios wanted to have someone able to turn him into a monster—which it didn’t even have to be, could straight up have just been a monster with such powers—, it didn’t have to be someone he knew. You could say the succubus wanted to disarm Laios’ suspicions with someone he knew and that was nearby, but the succubus seem very direct in every other case, simply appearing with someone’s greatest appearance even though both Marcille and Chilchuck were fully on guard and the succubi knew it. "Believability" isn’t an important factor. No, his succubus being someone he knew was important. It being Marcille was important.

There’s a TLDR at the end of this if you want to cut it short. For everyone else, strap in everyone, if you don’t know me hi I’m Fumi and I made this 3k words long analysis and theorizing bc I am autistic much like the character in question and I think this is both fascinating and has a lot to say. In this I offer both platonic and romantic reasonings and I do go rather in depth in Laios’ psychology and relationships to dissect what ever could this damn cryptic event MEAN. Spoilers for the succubus chapters obviously and also the last few arcs of the series so… Spoilers for the series as a whole!

—

So attraction wise it’s kinda unsure where Laios stands. He does sort of logically list off aesthetically pleasing traits of the orc’s wives, but besides that… Not really, or he never voices it anyways. He and Marcille never share like “omg you’re pretty” moments or anything. Senshi gets more compliments than either of them through the series lmfao. Maybe Laios is asexual, maybe he simply doesn’t show outwardly his attraction much or even maybe isn’t self-aware about it, regardless… Laios HAS implied preference for Marcille’s looks in the past. With the orcs, he said that “tallmen like long ears”. Laios’ shapeshifter of Marcille has her hair down just like her succubus, which by Kui is explained to be because she had it down when she revived Falin and it really marked him, though it could also be interesting to see it as his mental image of her as her most authentic self, I’ve seen it theorized that it’s a preference too but I think that’s disproven. But of course the most damning evidence itself… The succubus scene. It could have been anyone else in the party, certainly Senshi shares Laios’ interest in monsters much more already. We shouldn’t discredit the way Laios was blushing madly once she revealed she was a monster, that made her more attractive to Laios for sure, but he still wouldn’t have reacted that way if it was just anyone. The contexts are very different, but we can compare it to how Laios reacted when Lycion turned into a wolf man in front of him for instance. Laios certainly doesn’t act that way with Izutsumi- and it’s confirmed like a page later that he does see Izutsumi as a monster already. AND!! Laios starts blushing madly BEFORE she says that she can turn him into a monster- and we can safely assume that the blush isn’t out of simple fluster but out of desire/infatuation since he clearly wants her to bite him in the next page and his blush does not relent at all.

There’s something we could say about Laios’ liking of Marcille being born out of companionship rather than aesthetic attraction, on familiarity and intimacy. As members of the same party they’ve spent a lot of time together and we’ve seen that Laios trusts in her and relies on her for her skillset and avice. If Laios’ interest in her developped more naturally and gradually, valuing the familiar bond they have, I don’t see why he’d be acting all blushy and lovesick every time they interact or whatever, which is the explanation I have for Marcille genuinely being Laios’ most alluring form but him not freezing at the sight of it. That could also be a reason why he physically rejects succubus!Marcille instinctively, because something about her feels off or different (which is sorta the most direct interpretation of the scene, since Laios’ first thought is that it can’t be Marcille and must be a monster).

 [Edited in: Oh my god. The picture above is the last page of the dullahan chapter, chapter 57, a chapter that centers around Laios and Marcille’s relationship through flashbacks as Laios is on the brink of death and sees his life flashing before his eyes (he remembers how they first met, etc, which is also interesting to note that on the brink of death he reminisces about her the most). The last page of that chapter, more or less the thesis of the chapter in which we see Laios opens up about the real reason he and Falin go dungeon diving to her after them having a rough meeting but she turns out to also have an interest in dungeons, has Laios go "she starts out frowning but she ends up smiling! Wether its’s about eating monsters or about me :)”. That chapter is the one right before th succubus chapters. Laios’ most alluring form wasn’t “just” Marcille, it’s a SMILING Marcille. Which is why the succubus had such a weird and off demeanor right away (which gets knocked off once it doesn’t work and becomes a more Marcille-like Marcille)! It was only focused on smiling because it was the angle it was working from.

Oh my god it makes sense. It’s a direct narrative link, it’s as explicitly put with its story structure without Kui just stating it, besides, you know, the many times Laios says how precious her smile is to him. He’s like “I love her smile” and right next chapter the succubus is like “yes this is what he likes seeing most”. But… This also does mean that the focus might be less romantic, like Marcille’s significance doesn’t diminish, but then the alluring form might be less about her and more about the smile itself. About having a friend who looks at him like that, about someone who smiles after eating monster dishes or surpassing obstacles together… Or it can actually be so much more romantic. Like, maybe the smiling Marcille doesn’t work is because well, it’s not like Marcille, she wouldn’t just be smiling like that and behave like that (esp since his musing is about how her smiles are sort of “earned”, that she doesn’t smile right away but it’s sort of like a rewarding sight when she does). So then the most alluring form of Marcille doesn’t work because she doesn’t convincingly BEHAVE like her. His most alluring form isn’t a Marcille-lookalike, it’s her as a whole. More on the succubus shifting/switching in its approach later.]

Anyways.

Where was I. Ah yes, “It could have been anyone else in the party, certainly Senshi shares Laios’ interest in monsters much more already.” But then that’s the point isn’t it. I think Laios’ succubus being Marcille is because his wish isn’t so much focused on her, or on becoming a monster, but on not being alone. On being understood. On having others finally share his interest. On not only becoming a monster, but having someone to share that with. A trusted friend, a companion, or a lover, it matters little in my interpretation, the bedrock of it stays the same. And this is why it’d be someone he already knew instead of someone new, because it’d defeat the point, and it was maybe Marcille because she’s the most vocal about finding monsters disgusting: it’d have finally been a shift in her that she now liked monsters. And again this brings back to when he talks about her smile, when he says that she starts out unhappy with eating monsters, but ends up smiling by the end of it. Her smile itself represents that though first impression or reflexive dislike, someone can turn around and end up liking it anyways, it’s hope for his interests to be liked and perhaps for him to be lovable as well, that it’s possible to be accepted.

But I do think it would be a mistake to say that there’s absolutely no romantic interest, that it’s plainly platonic or another kind of interest misplaced and idealized in her. What we saw with the other succubus is that they 100% act in ways that the person desires, sure Izutsumi’s start attacking after a while, but that was after pushing them over the edge, and succubus Marcille wasn’t being agressive nor did she have a reason to be (even when she could have with Laios’ choking, she didn’t turn to violence, so she was 100% still in seduction mode). Ultimately the goal of the succubus is to make physical contact to be able to suck their essence, but the way they go about achieving that is tailored to the individual’s desire, Marcille’s kissed her hand and Izutsumi’s offered a hug.  The succubus can identify and embody complex desires, often subconscious ones, shown with Izutsumi’s. They go straight to it without complex subterfuge either. Chilchuck’s succubi were very direct because that’s what he wanted, Marcille’s was courtly because that’s what she wanted, Izutsumi’s offered motherly comfort and affection because that’s what she wanted, and Laios’ is Marcille attempting to kiss him. Let that sink in.

Laios why are you choking the supposed key to your heart?

Ok so the theory that Laios’ desire is to have a deeper companionship from an existing companion is pretty tame and surface level I’d say, but strap in… The way Laios reacted violently to Marcille trying to kiss him is VERY interesting. The first thing he thinks about is that she isn’t Marcille so she must be a succubus, then confusion at to why it’s her. He’s even afraid of what the others would think, feeling… Shame? With how he imagines Marcille would be horrified that he likes her that way. Fear of rejection?

But no no, what interests me is the shift that the succubus makes. It seemed very confident at first, went straight in, but when overpowered shifted the direction it was going in- shifted from a desire for Marcille to a desire for a monster Marcille and whatever deeper desire that hides. But??? Succubi did not make mistakes as to what someone wanted thus far, possibly that has never ever happened before by human records. Could the succubus truly have miscalculated what Laios desires? It’d be hard to imagine that the succubus would misunderstand what type of companionship someone wished for or what approach to take, since it’s done complex cases before too, Izutsumi being very much in denial before it & at first. In Izutsumi’s case, even with her complex feelings over it and her two souls desiring different things, the succubus did not miss its mark, and ultimately it was having a second soul for who the succubus wasn’t alluring that allowed her not to be frozen to the spot. But with Laios the succubus fully switches strategy.

The thing is that succubi don’t usually need to switch strategies, because the form and approach they take always work and always leave the victim frozen. Izutsumi bypassed this because of her two souls, but was still frozen and struggling to reject the succubus at first. And yet? Laios did. A succubus’ victim is supposed to be instantly frozen, and yet Laios acts on instinct and defensively agressive as soon as his reaction time allows. And well, it’s hard to really come to a logical conclusion as to why, since we have no idea of what rules can override a succubus’ temptation besides multiple souls… C’mon regular Marcille can’t be the winged lion/kenksuke’s desire bc of the loose hair being Laios’ mind-Marcille we’ve gone over this /hj Although, since it’s confirmed that the winged lion was watching with the dream Laios gets induced right after, maybe he’s what allowed Laios to be moving? It’s possible that it’d have frozen him otherwise, even if Laios with his full rationale wouldn’t have accepted the kiss faced with supernatural allure he might have gotten paralysis from being overwhelmed, similarly to how if Chilchuck had his full rationale he wouldn’t allow a woman like his succubus to kiss him (he’s always stayed faithful to his wife even after 4 years of separation, give the guy his earned credit). Getting somewhat offtopic, but something to say about how if that’s the case once again the theme of ‘irrational desire you crave vs what you truly want/need’ that is present throughout the manga would be reflected.

My best guess however on why Laios reacted so quickly and forcefully is: trauma. The more recent arcs with Laios suggest that Laios has deep-seated trauma over humans. He dislikes humans as a whole, that was like, pretty much stated, though perhaps exaggerated. As a kid he fantasized about monsters wiping out human towns. We know Laios has been ostracized for most of his life by others, in his village and in the military, and beyond social rejection it’s shown he got beaten in group too and it was implied that it happened regularly. But damn, disliking humans to the point of wanting to be a monster and murderous genocidal reclusive envies and all of that stuff? That is massive trauma, massive identity & belonging issues and hint at massive trust issues.

So then, the negative reaction could be because of Laios’ deep trauma with humans. Because of trauma getting activated, not due to a miscalculation on the succubus’ part but due to a contradicting dislike of the desire that makes the form inherently and straight out of the gate un-alluring, Laios’ repression being so strong that he’s able to affect his own desires in that way, or an instinctive defense response to the trigger (a human).   Even though Laios hides it well, once again recent arcs (and some other moments) make it clear that Laios still has some innate dislike of humans, which in canon is a term that all races like elves fit in. He has a bias against them, perhaps even an innate distrust of them. Who knows how aware he is of it, or how much control and will he has over it. What if Laios reacting agressively to it was his defense mode tied to this kicking in, a survival and security instinct, stopping any possibility of Laios wanting a romantic relationship with a human? Any chance of that human getting close and being hurt by it, either rejected or stabbed in the back? It’d then make sense if Laios is unaware and doesn’t understand his attraction to Marcille then, if it’s a sort of self-made blockage, denial. And that’d make full sense with how, when Marcille is suddenly a monster, then all of Laios’ reluctance is gone and he’s fully enthralled, all that it took was taking away that one blockage for Laios to be utterly charmed. It takes away the trigger element, humans, and replaces it for something safer. A desire for connections, but connections with people that are ‘safe’, people who also don’t fit in with society, who are part of his interest in monsters, who would accept and understand him. I think that Laios does desire human connections, specifically, but can’t allow himself to pursue them either from conscious or unconscious trauma, so though he does desire it he can’t accept that he does/can’t accept the relationship even if it’s handed to him on a silver platter.

Conclusion

The succubus’ shift could then be either that it switched from one wish, a wish for Marcille, to another, a wish for companionship in monster-liking, or that it stayed on the same fundamental wish, but had to improvise with the new information (that Laios is human-averse)(not bc it didn’t exist previously but bc it wasn’t manifested) to take out of the equation the thing that was holding Laios back (from giving in).

But well, the fact that the rest of the party is included does lean towards the former, but in any case that doesn’t erase all I’ve spoken about, all about how Marcille is 100% the focus of this whole thing. It could still be a bit of both. But it is interesting that he worries about the party’s reaction to seeing his succubus being Marcille, and when she shifts into monster Marcille he *still* worries about the others: “b-but what about the others?” He’s a mess, with his most alluring form seducing him, and he still has a shred of resistance in him to question how the others would react, and it’s only when she says that they’re already monsters too that he truly gives in. Is he really so afraid of ostracization? Of losing the people he cares about due to judgement? Then the mention of the others in the party can simply be something the succubus added on top to unlock another “blockage”, the same way she added Marcille being a monster on top of the basic premise of Marcille; Take out the immediate dismissal of humans first, and then the fear of loss and judgement from other friends so Laios can finally stop worrying and give in. That worry/framing I’d say makes the latter more credible, because it’s not the premise of the alluring form but an extra.

In the end, like the recent arcs kind of spell out, the thing central to Laios’ character is less so a love for monsters and moreso a dislike for humans, and this is what this puts on full display.

Laios’ most alluring form is Marcille, a human that doesn’t understand his interests and thus him, and regardless of everything else that Marcille is, that is so traumatic to him that all of his being immediately rejects it.

—

Thanks for coming to my ted talk! I’ve spent so much time thinking about this and wording and rewording this same train of thought, also it’s the end of my college semester and I’m going crazy

Tldr: My personal fav theory for Laios’ succubus is that Laios really values Marcille’s smile a ton like it’s often mentioned, and that’s what his most alluring form centers on. I’ve got a ton of different interpretation on the why it’d go for a kiss? Since it tailors its approach to the person’s desires, but obviously something goes wrong with Laios’, which is really interesting because even with Izutsumi who resists because she has 2 souls so one part of her can always remain unaffected, the succubus hit bullseye on her most alluring forms. But regardless of that, I think his desire for Marcille (either her or what she represents, wether as a platonic ideal or something else) isn’t wrong/untrue perse, but that Laios has such a complex with humans and intimacy and connecting with others that his defense mode kicks in and that’s when the succubus has to shift into a different, safer desire: one that doesn’t involve humans but that still shows connections and acceptance and belonging. Also Laios realizes that it isn’t Marcille when she goes in for the kiss, which if his allure for her is based on familiarity since they’re friends and all could make sense that it’d break him away from it, or since it’s a liking based on familiarity he doesn’t freeze, or maybe it’s because the winged lion has its eye on him. I think that’s so much more likely with how Kui makes even her jokes be character moments or at least consistent, and also with the tension of the scene, than just the scene being a gag about how Marcille doesn’t mean much to Laios actually.

I think there’s a lot to be said about why Marcille is special to Laios, why her smile means something to him, etc, and I don’t think saying Marcille is special to him is exaggeration or reaching at all. Laios, Marcille and Falin are the golden trio, she’s the deuteragonist, she’s the only other character in the main party whose goal in going back for Falin is Falin and who has a bond with her and Laios outside of being coworkers, in post-canon they live together, happily, in the anime’s ending they’re emphased on by dining out all three together... I could go on.   Marcille has the benefit of being very trusted by Laios, not only with the time they’ve spent together but how she was Falin’s friends first, the person he himself feels so protective of and has been so consistently ostracized throughout her life. Marcille represents a positive odd one out that’s like, the good example of "humanity can be good and safe and warm actually".  Which is a big reason why imo Marcille is like, the secondary protag and with Falin they form the golden trio. She’s central to the story in many ways including making Laios see that humanity is worth saving and sticking with, but that’s a topic for another analysis. One such reason is how his first meeting with her went: it started really badly but ended with her coming around and unexpectedly sharing their interest in dungeons, which made him and Falin open up about the real reason they go dungeon diving, perhaps for the first time. There is just so much that goes into it but Laios seems generally very expectant of rejection: in the climax chapters after he transformed back as a human and was hiding out in the woods, pre-canon in an extra where we see him battling himself on if he should suggest eating monsters or not. But another one, the one I truly want to bring up in this post, is how genuine Marcille is! And funnily enough, how dramatic she is, and how her elf ears change position depending on her emotions. Like, let me compare her affectionately to a dog for a second, but dogs move their ears and use whole body language to communicate, and I think that part of Marcille, really strong emoting, with her ears and body language on top of her often dramatic facial expressions, reassure him. Like ok, maybe he can’t tell when Shuro and Kabru would lie to him, but Marcille? She wears her heart on her sleeve and her feelings on her whole self. And that takes away some of the stress and trauma he has with humans, explains why her smiles would “put him at ease”, doesn’t it?

I don’t remember wether I’ve mentioned this somewhere or just in my reblog linked at the end of the post, but while at first I thought the succubus going for a kiss on the lips heavily implied a romantic desire in Laios,  now I have a couple different theories on why the succubus would have gone for that approach. I think the most likely is that, if the principal allure of his succubus is her smile, the succubus is like "as long as he sees her face right up until i can suck up his blood and he passes out I’ll be gucci", so it’s not about the kiss but about him seeing her face all the while until the very last moment, so he stays charmed.

Btw chapter 34 explores Laios’ relationship with touch too imo, and we see that he is uncomfortable with touch to some degree, very unsure and hesitant and tense. I feel like it’s something more shown in a bigger picture sense with his whole struggles with humans and extras, than just in any one page so go reread the beginning of that chapter if you want I’d say, but putting a page below as example anyways. I think it’s notable that it’s a character moment shared with Marcille too, she acts sort of like a bridge to humanity with social propriety and being extroverted in many cases. In the chapter Chil and Marcille point out how awkward he is with touch, but he learns to be casual/comfy enough about touch to do healing magic with her (something that was also enforced through him having to practice magic on Marcille turned to stone, he got a lot of touch exposure and magic practice done in those days. Dammit Laios, MArcille and touch is worthy of a whole analysis of its own). She’s just like, his human comfort zone, even if they aren’t that close at least at first, besides Falin he has literally like no friends and I think that itself shows how he doesn’t fit in well socially and that it’s a significant struggle for him. But yes what I was saying here is I believe there’s setup for him recoiling from touch like he did with the succubus (due to an instinctive aversion to touch made especially intense due to the succubus’ oddness and forwardness).

I have even more theories and rambling on details on the succubus here in a reblog, but unless I want to put in some pictures of Laios repressing himself around others and such I don’t think I’ll be touching this post again in a while

[menlove]

wait enlighten me on the i’m so tired being about paul grind i don’t know if i see it

ofc! it's just interpretation obviously but it's one of those that makes me eye it a bit. but. it's one of those that every beatles wiki will be like "it's about yoko" but he's never said that and honestly the song doesn't fit with their relationship at the time like at all. she WAS writing him a lot of telegrams and their relationship was certainly getting Weirder at the time, but I wouldn't think it would inspired sleepless, tortured nights yet

the song is very much like. a sort of rising anger/irritation with the situation and the person in the song which is very much where paul and john were at at the time. I'm not a "something happened in india" truther, but I do think things between them were going south. had been since brian died and only got worse with paul getting engaged.

this part particularly To Me reads as very paul

bc at the point john and YOKO were at if he called her and was like "hey I'm in love with you and I'm going insane and can't sleep over it" I don't even know that HE'D be scared she'd say he was joking and turn him down. like she was very much the one doing the chasing there for a while and her telegrams seem pretty damn confident about where that relationship was headed. where they were at just didn't seem like the tortured, aching, harm that he talks about in this song. it was the beginning obsession of new love which is a TOTALLY different feeling than this song gives off.

paul on the other hand. I think it would be incredibly reasonable to assume that if he told paul "yeah I haven't been able to sleep because you're driving me insane, I'm in love with you, and it's like actually genuinely hurting me" paul would go "that's a hilarious one john thanks" like 💀 way more in character for paul to brush something like that off than yoko

also as just a further lil reach lol in the esher demo there's this:

obviously john was just misspeaking and meant to say my arms but. interesting especially bc at this point him and yoko had never slept together or been intimate at all. that's USUALLY something I'd call bullshit on with affairs, but they've been pretty open about their relationship timeline. she's also. I mean. yoko isn't very charming lmao I'm not dogging on her she just isn't and she knows that, john knew that, the world knows that. she's just a very blunt person who at the time this was written was just coming off as sort of strange and mysterious to him.

so saying yknow "when I hold you (/fuck you) I wonder if I should get up and lock myself in a mental institution" would again just be a really weird and nonsensical thing to say about yoko. about the notoriously charming man who in this scenario you'd be fucking, though.......... homosexuality was BARELY legal let alone smth john had come to grips with so this whole doom spiral around this person & fucking them & what that means for you, well! very interesting, anyway

anyway that's it! I just am super unconvinced this song is about yoko. and there's really only 3 sort of romantic interest options in his life at the time it could be about and it just wouldn't fit for yoko or cynthia imo. so that leaves paul. and their quickly crumbling relationship.

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

WIBTA If I named my twin boys after Jekyll and Hyde?

I (37F) am currently pregnant with twin boys. My husband (36M) and I had made an agreement when we started trying for a baby that of the 4 kids we wanted, I would name the first two and he would name the second two. Obviously if the name was TOO ridiculous, it could be veto’d, but overall it’s a pretty clear plan.

He named our first daughter (2F) when she was born and her name is Juliet, after Romeo and Juliet. We’re both huge fans of Shakespeare and while I loved the book, I disliked the name Juliet at first. It’s grown on me a lot because of my daughter, but I didn’t want her to be named that at first and still respected the agreement we had made anyway.

When I found out I was pregnant again, I was really excited and started planning baby names. I’m really big into sci-fi and classics and wanted to stick with a literature theme. When I found out that I was having twin boys, Henry and Edward seemed like perfect names! They’re a reference to Henry Jekyll and Edward Hyde, but arnt something super cheesy or obvious. We have middle names already picked out from family traditions, so unless we told people it would be hard to guess the names origin. Plus, Jekyll and Hyde had a big impact on me as a weird teenage girl and I love that book.

The problem is that my husband absolutely HATES the name. He thinks that it’s going to lead our sons or other people to stereotype them based on which character they’re named after, and that Edward would be socially set up to be seen as like worse. I understand what he means, but it’s hard for me to believe it would that THAT big of an impact socially speaking because no one would really know the reference. I kind of understand where he’s coming from in the context of the boys comparing themselves to each other, but personally Hyde was always a character more based on being who you are, even if it’s not what’s “pretty” or “normal”, and I don’t really believe the interpretation that Hyde represents pure evil. I feel like if we raised our boys with this idea, they wouldn’t think of one as the “good” twin and the other as the “evil” twin.

I told all this to my husband, and we both see where the other person is coming from, and we’re kind of at an impasse. This book got me through high school, and is one of my favorite pieces of media EVER. He hasn’t veto’d the name, but I still feel a little bad about the whole thing. I think the names will grow on him eventually, but who knows.

[prince-liest]

Saw a post recently that rhetorically asked why authors and show writers leaving character sexuality up to interpretation is disappointing when fifteen years ago getting a statement that things were up to interpretation (as opposed to "Definitely NOT gay, you freaks!") was a blessing, and I make a point of never discoursing on the bird app, but wanted to share some thoughts on the subject here - particularly because Alastor is kind of a hot topic on this subject and I think he actually makes for a great example for my thoughts on this.

Honestly, as someone who did live through the "if you think my characters are gay then you're stupid and should die" era, I think it left me with the perspective that even if there is canon sexuality, then no matter what it is, you're free to then do whatever you want in fandom. People might call you a dick for it if you go about it in certain ways, but you're free to do it.

That said... that's not really what wanting canon confirmation is about. It's about having canon representation, especially for identities that we often don't see representation of. For example: Alastor being aromantic is "up for interpretation," and that specifically feels bad when it's explicitly been framed that way as a cop out to appease shippers (per Viv), especially when in canon you can see he's intended to be aroace based off of how Rosie talks about him.

Yes, things are better now than they were 15 years ago... but standards are higher now, too!

And in particular I think that while in 2008 or so, "It's up to interpretation!" basically meant "Yeah, they might be gay but I can't say it," nowadays the meaning has shifted. I see a lot of people chiming into any mention of aroace Alastor with this attitude of "Um, actually, he's NOT aromantic because it wasn't confirmed by Viv (even though he wasn't confirmed to NOT be aro either)," rather than the spirit of "Oh, yeah, he might be aro, that's a valid interpretation!" It actually feels very similar to seeing people go "Well, X is OBVIOUSLY straight (the default) because he wasn't confirmed to like men!"

...in 2008, haha.

Anyway, fandom always feels to me like a 'do whatever you want' zone, but I think just based off of the sheer volume and depth of genuine and heartfelt reactions people have had to Alastor as a character and his portrayal as aroace... having canon representation and seeing yourself in media you enjoy matters a great deal to many people.

I had a really emotional moment when I read my preorder of House of Hades from the Percy Jackson series back in middle school and realized that Nico di Angelo was an actual gay character in an actual real, physical book that I was holding in my hands, not "just" a headcanon from my nebulously safe online fandom spaces, for the first time ever. Similarly, people have been headcanoning various characters as ace for a long, long time, but to me it's never had the same punch to it as it being official when it comes to those kinds of feelings re: representation.

So leaving that kind of thing "up to interpretation" specifically as an alternative to providing representation to a group of people who rarely sees it is disappointing, but it's not for shipping reasons.

[paintbrushnebula]

Just now realized that we're gonna get to see what Gwen intentionally *trying* to flirt looks like

bc like the few times when she said really sentimental things to Miles in ATSV weren't her intending to be romantic. Like the part where she said "What I always think: You're Amazing" was the most affectionate thing she's said to Miles so far, but that was her being unusually candid out of the heavy emotion she was feeling at that moment, not genuine flirting (at least not to her).

But if she's gonna be trying to make up with Miles and maybe doing some mmhmmhmm rizzing...

And I just think that will be Very Funny to watch.

Because you see the thing with Gwen is that she's not used to being open and vulnerable, so she isn't used to just saying how she feels about someone. I think that's why her love language is physical touch.

This is probably totally me projecting, but I always interpreted that physical touch is Gwen's default way of showing affection because expressing affection with words is much more difficult for her to do. It's like her way of expressing love where words fail her. It's kinda all she thinks she's capable of giving.

(Anyone who knows me knows I'm rather touchy too. With my siblings, parents, family, etc. It's always kisses, hugs, gentle arm squeezes, all that. So I relate to this aspect of Gwen's character a lot)

But obviously, physical affection isn't enough anymore. It's cute and highly appreciated, but it won't reveal everything that lies in the heart, or explain what she believes. It's pretty clear by the end of atsv that Miles will need some words from her. Some good words.

Now what's funny to me about Gwen's rizzing potential is that we've seen what it looks like when Gwen is trying to impress someone without knowing how good her chances are. She tried to make a good impression with Miles' parents, but got really awkward and cringed at herself after every attempt at banter or friendly conversation. This was different from how she interacts with the people at the Spider Society because superheroing is her element. It's something she knows she's good at, so there's no self doubt. But Gwen's a fish out of water in domestic situations. I mean, think about the scene where Gwen invites Miles for a swing around New York. The scene that follows very clearly resembles a date, despite the fact that it's not what Gwen meant when she called him out of his window. I think that Gwen had thought about how this could've looked like she was asking him out, then proceeding to shut down any thoughts like that, denying herself that they were on a date, despite that that might've been where her mind had been. Sidebar, I headcanon that during that scene, Miles did allow himself to pretend they were on a date. But anyway, this moment still has Gwen in her element because she's calling him out to swing around the city as spider-woman. It's certainly not the same as asking to casually hang out in civilian clothes to grab a bite or whatever, which would've been much more domestic, which would've been much more difficult for Gwen to attempt at. Gwen knows what the odds are when she's Spider-Woman, but she doesn't know the odds when she's Gwen Stacy.

Gwen not knowing the odds of something working out is what actively keeps her down throughout ATSV before she returns home. She acted with pessimism, and if the chances weren't high, she didnt want to commit herself to trying something that might not work out in the end--a similar outlook I had and still kinda do have, albeit toward my creative endeavors, not romantic relationships (I don't really have experience in that arena tbh)

But now after ATSV she's throwing caution to the wind with Miles, she's gonna face the music and use words this time. And some of those words, might be romantic! Gwen is gonna have a lot to say to Miles, there's so much she'll want to express to him--has been wanting to express to him for 2 years now! A lot of gushy mushy sweet stuff perhaps! Perhaps some rizzy words, yknow? And knowing Gwen, they're probably gonna have a hard time coming out the way she'd like! And it'll probably be very funny!

for us anyway

Ahh, the mythic struggle beauty of being an introvert.

[sweet-evie]

I have so many thoughts and headcanons about the Gojo clan... You have no idea. 😭 Also, I'm talking out of my ass and everything I say is fictional and from pure imagination... Don't take it seriously.

The Gojo clan may or may not span 40 generations based off of how long ago Suguwara Michizane lived...

and ummm... That's a lot of generational wealth 🤯.

Imagine if you married into that -- married Satoru Gojo. You're automatically the highest-ranking woman in the family, on top of having access to all that money. 😆

Listen, some of the world's richest families like the Rockefellers currently span 7 generations and they're worth billions of dollars.

Damn I really need a full backstory on the 3 major clans. I need to know how rich they are and how they maintained and/or grew that wealth until the modern day.

There's plenty of drama and info on the Zen'in clan. We get crumbs and pieces about the Kamo clan...

But info on the Gojo clan is close to nada, and I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THEM DAMMIT! I'm so thirsty for more worldbuilding in JJK, you have no idea.

At this point, just seeing Satoru's parents would make me happy.

I have a headcanon that Gojo's family, apart from being sorcerers and political powers in the jujutsu community, are probably mixed bags of company shareholders, politicians, lawyers, philantropists, etc.

Yeah, it's said that the Gojo clan is a one-man army that consists of Satoru Gojo, but I interpret that as Satoru outshining every other family member -- especially every other practicing sorcerer in the family. (There's simply no surpassing the wielder of the Six Eyes and the Limitless technique).

The Gojo clan is a sorcerer clan first and upper tier members of Japanese society second.

Some of Satoru's male relatives are probably Shinto and Buddhist monks. The point is to have a foothold in influential religions among non-sorcerers.

I like to think that maybe one sorcerer in the clan has Limitless... maybe his grandpa, but the man was never as efficient with it as Satoru Gojo.

Maybe the majority of the sorcerers in the Gojo clan fight with Grade 1 cursed tools and good-old hand-to-hand imbued with cursed energy. Maybe other cursed techniques exist within the Gojo clan too... It's all just overshadowed by Satoru.

I also think the Big 3 actually tend to keep to themselves (e.g., the Zen'ins having their own military unit). Their spawns don't ALL go to Jujutsu High, do they? It's a choice for them rather than a necessity. Like, Jujutsu High was established primarily for sorcerers who come from "somewhat normal" backgrounds, unlike people from the Big 3. Satoru was born into jujutsu sorcery and it's the only life he's ever known, whereas people like Suguru who come from non-sorcerer families are brought into Jujutsu Tech to learn about what it means to be a part of jujutsu society, and to teach them that they're not, you know, mentally ill because they can see curses.

Quick side note, I imagine Jujutsu Tech as the bridge between the branch of the Japanese government that is aware of the existence of curses and the jujutsu society as a whole. It just kind of makes sense that way, especially when you consider where their funds to pay people come from -- not from thin air, that's for sure. I mean, how else do the higher-ups get the funding to pay their actively practicing sorcerers, especially the special-grades? Does jujutsu sorcerer pay roll come from citizens' tax money?

Also... On top of Satoru Gojo having access to his clan's generational wealth and assets, how much is he getting paid as an instructor at Jujutsu Tech? Is that salary separate from his special-grade sorcerer salary? Is he technically working 2 full-time jobs?

Man is rolling in cash...

Anyway, I want to circle back to the point that Satoru Gojo is the most active sorcerer in the Gojo clan when it comes to interacting with the higher-ups and being a constant presence in Jujutsu Tech. Obviously, his fingerprints are all over Jujutsu society politics as well.

I headcanon that Satoru comes from a big family, actually. Satoru is an only child, but I imagine lots of cousins and aunts and uncles and distant relatives, and the Gojo estate is probably one massive compound where most of the family lives. Like, they can live in that huge ass ancestral property if they want too... There's plenty of room.

The clan also likely owns several other properties and probably small temples or shrines across Japan. They have one ancestral seat and other properties. That goes for the Kamo and the Zen'in clans as well.

That real estate portfolio be popping.

As for actual size, think Heian estate in ancient Japan big. It's expansive.

Maybe the sorcerers in the family would be fond of living in the Gojo estate. The others, especially the ones who hold positions in the government or the military or who have public-facing jobs have their own homes registered under their own name, and not... you know... registered under the family with the clan head.

Another headcanon is that the clan head is capable of assigning properties and other clan assets to family members if he chooses to. Satoru Gojo can give away houses if he wants too, like a nobleman or European feudal lord. But for real, the Gojo clan might have been part of the nobility in ancient Japan, only losing their noble titles after the Imperial family changed the rules around the 1940s.

Speaking of, it's probably not a reach to assume, that the clan head has his fingers in many many honey pots. 🍯 That is to say, Satoru Gojo has access to more money than he can spend in a single life time. And after he's passed, maybe the money just goes back to the surviving members of the clan.

I need to know Satoru Gojo's net worth.

I think each of the Big 3 has their own hierarchy and their own family politics. Again, the Zen'ins are a prime example...

For the Gojo clan, I headcanon that there's a small council of elders -- people way older than Satoru. Satoru's own father is probably part of that. Put his grandfather and a couple of uncles and aunts in there too.

How do they work? I imagine it's pretty similar to how the Small Council functions in Game of Thrones. Like, there's someone in charge of managing finances, someone who keeps an ear on clan politics, someone who has a foothold in the national military, etc.

I imagine they have a bi-weekly gathering. They offer counsel, but the final decision in any dilemma they discuss always falls to the clan head -- Satoru Gojo.

I also headcanon that Satoru has a penthouse somewhere in Tokyo -- a place he considers as his own residence, away from clan politics and the rest of his probably snobby family.

But Satoru is always busy, so his penthouse is way too clean. It looks like no one lives there.

This is the vibe of the penthouse... I have his penthouse in my Sims 4 game.

Speaking of snobby... The Gojo's clan general reputation? I would say... They're intellectual people, some of them are likely obsessed with history, and rigid and formal when it comes to observing traditions. I imagine they have a tendency to be really elegant.

Whenever the Zen'ins look at them, the stereotypical thought is, "Look at those pompous, snobby, jackasses."

In the succeeding years since December 7, 1989, the Gojo clan's sense of pride has only grown, because well... The most powerful and strongest sorcerer of the modern age came through their lineage.

Needless to say, Satoru Gojo is the pride and power of the Gojo clan.

Satoru's parents were practicing Grade 1 sorcerers... really active in the field, and Satoru's grandfather was Clan Head for a time.

Satoru's mom retired from fieldwork after she married Satoru's dad and after she got pregnant and became a mom. I love my headcanon that she's a shrewd politician and is all about maintaining good standing with the elders while doing intelligence gathering. The woman maintains a network, so she's always in-the-know.

Satoru doesn't make it easy for his mom especially when he goes around and does what he wants. e.g., Becoming a benefactor to Megumi, saving Yuji and Yuta, etc. She's actively working to cover his tracks wherever she can.

Satoru's mom is actively looking for a wife for him, for obvious reasons. The plan never came to fruition because of the Shibuya incident and Ch #236.

Satoru's father is more politician than actively practicing sorcerer by the time Satoru was studying in Jujutsu Tech. He's all about maintaining solid relations with the other clans, the elders, and collaborating with the branch of Japanese government that knows of the existence of jujutsu sorcery. He probably works with the Japanese government too.

Satoru Gojo visits the family estate once in a while... for other business, but primarily for hearings and clan meetings. It's peculiar to look at during these meetings because Satoru is the only person in that room who isn't wearing traditional clothes. Like, I headcanon that he shows up in casual attire, or his Jujutsu Tech uniform, complete with the blindfold.

His mom probably tried to talk him into wearing traditional clothes for these meetings when he was younger, but it just never stuck. Satoru is Satoru, after all.

After Satoru Gojo passes away, I like to imagine the Gojo clan takes a bit of a backseat. It's probably the wiser course of action too, considering everything that's happened in Japan after October 31, 2018.

[I know some people think he's the only survivor of the Gojo clan, but you gotta think of the fact that he learned about Hollow Purple from some people. Someone taught him FBE as a kid.]

[sgiandubh]

What sort of marketing is this? Why do they air this TV Insider interview with David Berry on YouTube b e f o r e the episode airs when they ask detailed questions about what happens in the episode and tell us practically everything? Was it an accidentc or the way to entice the audience to increase the ratings or ⭐ marketing strategy sucks?

On a happier note, allow me to interpret David's answers:

"I was ready to explore the love scene further but there were negotiations because Sam interfered. I feel very uncomfortable talking about just as I was extremely nervous to pretend that I was having sexual relations with his wife both on and off screen. We practically improvised the whole scene. Cait was aggressive because she felt uncomfortable doing it knowing that Sam will watch it. She didn't want to be in it as much as I didn't. We didn't rehearse much because Sam was very much against the scene being filmed. I'm seriously avoiding Sam now. He is very strong and protective of Cait. It feels weird being in his presence. Thank God for the scripts that don't give us many interactions afterwards."

I genuinely sorry for David. What a peculiar position he was and quite possibly still is in!

Dear Peculiar Position Anon,

I will give my take on it when I get to the third (Jesus, what a scandal!) batch of #jottings. Spoiler, though: it wasn't as terrible as I thought it would be.

As for your interpretation, yours is as good as anybody's, of course. I would be much more reserved: this is, after all, acting (I am serious, this time) and I don't think these three people would be as naive as to give it such a childish connotation. I think SC and David are very good friends and, while I do agree S is very protective of C, I wouldn't go as far as you did.

Anyways, for those who missed it, here is the interview you are referring to:

May I also add that I like David Berry a LOT? Rewatching the interview, I think he gave us one of the most credible feedbacks ever on what it means to shoot a difficult scene, while you just knew all eyes would be upon it and expectations over the roof.

It also goes to show - and David has been endearingly honest about it - just how hard it is to shoot such a scene (all the 'really difficult' preparation process, the things that 'ended on the cutting room floor', the 'negotiation') when you don't have the organic famous 'shorthand' and 'ease' S&C always mention, when they talk about their intimate scenes.

That 'shorthand' and that' ease' have a name, Anon. We know exactly what that is about.

I also loved what David shared about his own research on gay people's approach to love, feelings' management (if I may say so) and intimacy. All I will say right now (I might get back to it later, who knows?) is that he did it respectfully and empathetically. A very, very difficult thing to achieve, I believe, that speaks volumes about how special David Berry is, both as an actor and a person (note to self: buy Landcon extras!).

Finally, you might want to compare the above interview with the somewhat sanitized, in-house narrative of ***:

Quite different things, I believe. And I so wish Maril would shut the dang up about what obviously is way above her range!

[rey-jake-therapist]

"I have never been more anxious in my life than in the weeks leading up to the series' launch. Up until that point, The Rings of Power was entirely mine. Once it was posted online, it became the property of the fans. I love their imagination. I don't go online. But my sister scours the forums and picks out theories that I might like. Some of them are extraordinary and defy belief. Others are spot on. But I can't tell you more than that.

I didn't expect the relationships between Galadriel, Elrond and Halbrand to be dissected to this extent, even if I imagine that the slightest hint of the forbidden - and I'm still afraid of saying something I shouldn't with this word - can only stir up passions.

Halbrand's influence on Galadriel was less implied in the scripts. It was Charlie Vickers who plays Halbrand who had the idea of ​​making it ambiguous. Assuming that these quasi-divine beings can feel human emotions. Was it a relationship of seduction or power? It's up to the viewer to decide. Extremely kind, Charlie was the best partner."

It is from a roughly translated French interview she did in 2023.

And @principessapeach gave me the link to the interview (thank you again !) :

Lmao Morfydd spilled some tea here. I wonder how it would have played out, if they had gone by the script. Charlie had no idea what monster he just created then lol

Anyway, that's why I can't take Charlie seriously when he claims with the look of the most innocent man on the planet, "uh no, we didn't play it that way, I don't get it...", and keeps insisting that this relationship is not romantic while describing it in the most romantic way.

I mean...

"(...) Vickers continues, adding that Sauron feels "taunted" and "pissed off" that Galadriel rejected him. That makes her ring back personal, but Vickers insists that "he's past ruling with her" (yeah we all saw that, he totally moved on). That won't stop him from showing her "what could have been, what you could have had", Vickers teases. "What they share is "greater than romance", Vickers explains. "Their connection runs far deeper than anything surface level." "His getting rejected definitely leaves him with this sour taste in his mouth, and he goes away thinking, "I can make this right." Whatever that means to him. That's one of his throughlines in terms of his motivation or goals for this second is how much he's driven and how much this relationship gives him a sense of purpose." "It can't be underestimated the impact she has on him. He's drawn to her in the same way that someone who has been through a lot is drawn to someone who's been through someone similar. I would always think of them as having this cosmic connection, in that their connection by some people, and on the surface, could have been interpreted as romantic because of the way it came off. That wasn't something we were intentionally doing (liar liar), but through their shared history, through different ways, they were able to connect more so than they would have connected with other people. It meant that it obviously culminated in this proposal, for want of a better word — not a proposal of marriage, although kind of." "They are not together in this journey. But because of the way things ended, they still have a strong influence on each other. They represent the forces of good and evil in the story, and I think they will always be linked because of what was told in the first season. You see them thinking of each other, and they are motivated by each other. The rejection of that proposal weighs on Sauron, as does the humiliation on Galadriel."