#Anti team cap

[musclesandhammering]

Friendly reminder that Wanda was a whole ass adult in Civil War (27), also an adult in Age of Ultron (26) & most likely even an adult when she signed up to work with Hydra (23-24 maybe).

Like not even college age, but full-on adult. Pushing 30.

The whole “she’s just a kid” argument is bullshit.

[irondad-defensesquad]

so i agree that civil war feels more like an avengers movie than a captain america movie, but to me it also failed when it made tony a lot more sympathetic than the titular character we're supposed to root for

[illicthearts]

I watched Infinity War today, sometimes I question why I liked it so much because half the things they do pisses me off. Especially Quill he pisses me off so much.

And STEVE, don’t even get me started on him. “We don’t trade lives,” JUST A MOVIE A GO YOU WERE PREACHING THAT WE NEED ACCEPT THAT IN YOUR LINE OF WORK YOU CAN’T SAVE EVERYONE. And than he goes ahead sacrifices a bunch of people (POCs) to save a ROBOT! Who mind you could be made again.

But I guess that only applies to faceless people. Not to the people you know personally and especially not if Wanda loves that person. I hate his hypocritical ass so much.

[tenaciousmoneymuffinzine]

This is really random, but I got home from work and my siblings were watching Captain America: Civil War

I sat to watch with them and I just- Steve is an idiot. He is so stupid the whole movie. He was so much better in the earlier movies. And he's just an ass in CW

[willowlark369]

Interesting Reminders

Always fun times when the Team Treason trolls come onto old posts to complain that not everyone ignores canon like they do.

Anyway, here’s a few reminders of canon, in case it’s been a while since you’ve watched the older MCU stuff (Phases 1 & 2):

Tony Stark was not the one selling weapons to terrorists. That was Obadiah Stane, who was so convinced that Tony wouldn’t agree that he tried to kill him multiple times. He also wasn’t a “war profiteer”. That term has an actual definition which he does not fit.

Steve Rogers has never been an officer and was actually discharged from the army as a private. “Captain America” is a stage name. Arguing over who gets to use it after Rogers died makes as much sense as arguing over who should get the nickname “the King”.

Natasha Romanoff knows less than nothing about psychology. She was also a shitty friend and an even shittier sister. (Yelena deserved better.)

Thor is actually a sexist jerk. His “support” of women ends with what they can do for him personally and not because he believes women are equal to men.

“Ultron” existed in the Mind Stone prior to the Scepter coming into the Avengers’ possession. Tony Stark & Bruce Banner never installed that existing program into anything nor did that program access the program that they wrote but couldn’t get operational.

Wanda Maximoff is a terrorist, of her own admittance. She voluntarily worked for Hydra, knowing they were Hydra, and never showed any remorse for having done so. In the MCU, she is also a white Christian, not a Jewish Roma.

The Accords were about accountability and holding superheroes to the same protocols as other martial forces potentially crossing sovereign borders, regardless of SHIELD using them as an excuse to continue their Index protocols.

What a great way to come out of a holiday celebrating violence, huh?

[taylorkellyreporting]

i’m looking for an anti team cap fic on ao3 that i read once where either the entire team or just clint break into tony’s living quarters and finds laura and her kids there with tony watching a movie in the living room and it shocks clint cause he didn’t even know laura left the farm. i’m pretty sure peter and maybe harley are there. i vaguely remember laura’s kids either call tony dad or uncle. i’m not sure if a physical fight breaks out but i know there’s shouting. does it sound familiar to anyone? it might be part of a series.

[padfootprongslet]

i guess if there are no civil war team iron man extreme anti team cap irondad fics with no harley keener, i gotta write them myself.

[queenofthursday6599-blog]

No team Cap isn't morally correct in Civil War

I think my main problem with team cap stans as someone on team tony is that I don't actually put myself in the shoes of either team.

I look at what's happening in Civil War from the perspective of a random no powered citizen who'd really like it if people with super weapons or super human powers wouldn't trample over my right not to get killed because those super heroes decided "The best hands are our own".

Even when that completely disregards stuff like international boarders, jurisdiction on what the Avengers team was actually supposed to do (fight threats no one else can, in Civil War the inciting incident is them deciding to fuck around in another country as an anti-terrorism task force when they aren't in anyway trained for that), and you know the reassurance that I won't get murdered when the heroes go chasing after their bestie and I'm unlucky enough to be in the way.

I honestly feel like if you think what Team Cap does in Civil War is "the moral choice" then you're empathizing way too hard with Team Cap and not looking at the situation objectively.

Civil War worked in the comics because it was an entirely internal affairs situation happening inside the USA. It was about people with powers being put on a list and being monitored and being somewhat stripped of their personhood. Cap's side is in the right in the comics. Because the Civil War comics conflict is based in fantastical racism, which in the comic's universe had been established and building for literal decades before the actual CW incident takes place.

This is not true in the movies. Where it's based on the actions of this singular super hero team, and how they frequently go over international boarders, disregarding things like jurisdiction and due process, and leave fucking disaster zones and piles of civilian casualties in their wake. Even when they have no business being there interfering.

And how everyone else in the world who isn't a superhero fan, is fucking terrified that they're going to die because this small group with godlike abilities decided they were going to do whatever the fuck they wanted based entirely on their own morals, and anyone they happen to murder while doing that is acceptable casualties.

So no, no one on Team Cap is "morally right" in this situation if you actually look at the bigger picture. Especially because Cap's own motivations for the whole movie isn't even actually that he disagrees with the Accords, he's just wants to protect Bucky, and he goes the whole movie doing that at the expense of literally everyone else.

Along with everyone else on that team besides Clint and Scott who were just Captain America fans who were dumb asses and went along with whatever he said.

Sam's full blown power tripping and doesn't want government over site, Wanda wants to be a hero without taking any of the responsibility that comes with that, Cap doesn't trust governments and wants to protect his bestie at all cost.

Bucky is the only Team Cap member who gets a pass because, I don't think he even knows what the hell is going on that whole movie. All he knows is a bunch of guys showed up trying to shoot him and Steve showed up shortly after. He's trying to deal with fucking scrambled egg brain and being a POW for 70 years, he's the only person I don't blame.

Though I think Tony fucks up in the movie too. He brought Spider-man in without verifying that he was one a grown up, and two knew the situation he was getting into.

Natasha fucks up because her entire life she's had her morality dictated by whoever is her then trusted superior. Which at this point in her life is Steve & Clint. I honestly think Natasha is doing her best in this movie, but she still objectively fucks up by not actually picking a side and sticking to it.

T'Challa is only on Team Tony because he's convinced that it's going to let him get revenge for his father's murder. So he's also in the wrong. Yeah he's grieving. Still not cool trying to use your diplomatic immunity to try and meet out vigilante justice.

Honestly I think the only people not in the wrong at all during the whole movie who's part of the actual conflict is Rhodey, Peter, Bucky and Vision. And that's it, everyone else is fucking up bringing their personal emotions into something they're supposed to be dealing with objectively.

Which yeah, I know that's a hard thing to do in a high stress high stakes situation like this. But if they can't do it then they're just not cut out for super heroing. Or like high stress high stakes jobs in general.

So I'm more Team Don't be an Asshole than I am Team Tony, and Tony's team just happens to have fewer assholes in this movie.

[crazypantsjewels]

got any old stony recs, or winteriron recs? Why do you like winteriron? Im just curious.

Oh gosh it’s been so long since I’ve read any stony so I don’t currently have any recs.

As for winteriron I do like this series by withered: https://archiveofourown.org/series/918138

To be honest I’m not sure how to explain why I like winteriron…their dynamic I guess? Most of the fics I’ve read of them have been Team Iron Man/Not Team Cap Friendly so I usually gravitate towards those. I need to expand my horizons more when it comes to winteriron fics.

If anyone has any fic recs please feel free to share! 🙏🏽

[musclesandhammering]

Saw a team cap fan complaining that Tony fans don’t get that The Accords & the concept of oversight are not mutually exclusive & you can be against The Accords while still admitting that the avengers need accountability…. and that would be a perfectly valid point if they didn’t fail to acknowledge that Steve was openly against any kind of oversight at all.

[irondad-defensesquad]

me a couple years ago: nah i don't like the t/eam cap vs. team iron man fights, i like them both

me now: i would fight old man steve and whitewashed wanda on the street any day

(btw if you like steve, that's cool! but i don't trust you if you genuinely like mcu wanda lmao)

[edgeheadpeep]

To team iron man and team cap y’all need to go outside and touch some grass read a book plant a flower masterbate idk this movie came out SEVEN YEARS AGO this argument is old and dumb it was dumb when it first happened too both did wrong things for the right reasons and most importantly (THEY ARE NOT REAL)I don’t wanna fucking hear it im still seeing this dumb shit on my dash SEVEN FUCKING YEARS LATER get a grip y’all FR anyway I’m team Bucky and Sam for life what y’all know about it

[moontheoretist]

I am really flabbergasted by all those American takes on Civil War. "Tony landed his friends in Guantanamo Bay". Honey, Tony tried to prevent the Avengers from being treated like monsters the whole fucking movie, but Steve didn't listen, and landed his Team in the RAFT. How is it Tony's fault? He tried his best to make them see reason. He tried to save them, because if Ross sent a squad, they would go for a kill, not capture. He didn’t even know that RAFT existed, because it was a super secret fucking prison under American law. Yes, how they were treated there was horrible. But it was in no way Tony’s fault. They made their own bed by breaking the law and giving Ross all the cards he needed. RAFT’s sole existence is an atrocity that is all on America, because USA has the audacity to make a prison like this under UN’s nose and claim it abides by the Accords.

[musclesandhammering]

I don’t have much to add to this because you basically said every single thing I’ve been trying to articulate about Infinity War for the past 6 years.

But yeah Cap thoughtlessly trading (or at the very least gambling) tons of innocent people’s lives just to save one or two of his friends’ lives is legitimately an established character trait for him now.

In The First Avenger, he led a team of non-serumed-up soldiers back into Red Skull’s labs to save Bucky (there was a whole unit there but let’s be real, he was there for Bucky), in Age of Ultron he risked Ultron murdering his team and every other human on the planet just to take a chance on then-homicidal-nazis Wanda & Pietro (because he saw himself in them volunteering for superhero experiments), in Civil War he wanted to risk the safety of every civilian in the world just so his friend Wanda didn’t have to be held accountable for murder, in that same movie he once again risked the safety of the general public just to protect his best friend (who, as far as cap knew at the time, had just bombed the UN), and in Infinity War he risked all of Wakanda plus 50% of the universe for Vision. It’s pretty much the one thing he can be counted on to do (that and give dramatic self righteous speeches).

And I’m sure some people would say that level of personal loyalty makes him a great friend, and sure it does! But it also makes him a shitty person. They’d probably also say it makes him relatable because most of us would couldn’t sacrifice our loved ones in those situations either, and to that I say you’re right! That’s why we should never be superheroes.

It’s the same as when people respond to cops shooting folks with “well can you imagine how much pressure they’re under? How much anxiety they must have in those scenarios? I’d probably be trigger happy too!” Yes…. that’s why you shouldn’t be a cop. You do not choose a job that has extremely high emotional/moral requirements with life or death stakes if you aren’t absolutely sure you can meet those requirements. If cap knew he’d let everyone else burn to save his own loved ones, he should’ve hung up the shield right then and there. But he didn’t. Because why should he? He makes the calls. And if he wants to gamble lives all day long, he can do it and no one’s gonna stop him. And that’s ultimately why he was so offended by the Accords.

Also, I would have lots of sympathy for Wanda’s decision in Infinity War- despite it being selfish- if it weren’t for the fact that every single other decision she’s made in her entire mcu run has also been selfish.

She volunteered to be experimented on by nazis in hopes that she’d get superpowers to murder Tony Stark with. She mind raped all the avengers when most of them hadn’t done anything to her, just to further the plan her genocidal ally concocted. She set the Hulk loose on a city full of innocent people just to further that same plan. She only abandoned Ultron & came to the good side when she realised he wanted to kill all humans, including her. She accidentally murdered people in Lagos just because she’d chosen to run around playing hero when she couldn’t even fully control her powers and then she refused to sign the accords, attacked her boyfriend, and tried to kill her teammates just so she wouldn’t be held accountable for said incident. Then she refused to kill her boyfriend to save wakandan lives and trillions of others. Then she held a city hostage to live in a suburban family fantasy and refused accountability get again when she finally relented and let them go. She read the Darkhold even though she knew it would corrupt her because she wanted power to kidnap children from her variants instead of just grieving like trillions of other mothers who’ve lost kids. She even tried to murder a child in order to further this plan. And then when she finally gave up and destroyed the Darkhold, it wasn’t because she saw the error of her ways or felt bad about hurting someone… it was because her kids rejected her.

This woman has never had a generous bone in her body, and maybe I’d be inclined to stan her as a villain if the narrative didn’t constantly insist she’s a hero.

Infinity War and how it made Sunflowerchester write meta no one asked for but she did anyway…

Hey gang! 

I rarely write meta anymore but I got so riled up after Infinity War that I rambled on and on in a Google doc after my 2nd viewing. So here, I thought I’d share it with my dash bc some have said they’re curious. sorry

I have 3 major issues with Infinity War, but lots of articles are touching on two of them, so I decided to cover the one left. I admit, this is honestly my biggest problem with the movie and it has to do with Captain America, so if you are a Cap fan and don’t like constructive, text-based criticism about him, you should probably not read this. I swear there is no hate present. I’m not trying to be a dick about anything but I’m sure to many, it’ll seem that way. 

Below are about 4 straight pages about why “We don’t trade lives” is a sham and why/how it causes all kinds of problems for a multitude of reasons in Infinity War. Cut for spoilers! 

Keep reading

[padfootprongslet]

i dont understand people who write team iron man fics post iw and endgame and dont include peter’s relationship with tony