#Anti frazel

[emma-o-yt]

Rick Riordan's problematic age gaps

Apparently reddit hates criticism because this got removed from there after a few minutes, maybe I can get it back up...anyways.

The age of consent in Texas is 17, Texas is where Rick lived (according to wikipedia) up until 2013. And yet...here we are.

Where do I even begin with this bullf*ckery? How about the most egregious of all?

Luke and Annabeth

We have two lines confirming their mutual feelings, one from The Demigod Diaries:

"Overtime, Annabeth developed a crush on Luke. As Annabeth got older, Luke developed feelings for her, too."

Mark of Athena (from her conversation with Venus):

"First there was Luke Castellan, her first crush, who had seen her only as a little sister; then he’d turned evil and decided he liked her—right before he died."

Now let me remind you, Annabeth and Luke have a seven year age difference, they knew each other at 7 and 14. By the time he died, Annabeth was just 16, while he was 23. And it's implied he begun returning her feelings a little before he asked her to run away, perhaps when she was 14. He's paralleled with Percy as Annabeth is his string in the river styx. He asks Annabeth explicitly if she loved him romantically (and she denies because Percy is there).

It's disgustingly inappropriate but at the very least they don't end up together...as for when they do...

Sadie Kane and Anubis

When it comes to immortal romance, I usually go for coded age. Anubis is thousands of years old but is mentally and physically 16, which is fine and dandy except for the fact that Sadie is 12. What do you want me to say except Rick is disgusting for promoting this.

Speaking of extreme age gaps:

Calypso and Leo

When you have a philosophy that every character must end up in a relationship, you run out of sensical options to pair up. Now, I'm a Caleo hater mainly because of how it retconned PJO and also because they are very toxic.

Now hold on, doesn't Caleo fall into coded age? Calypso is 15/16 and Leo is 15, so it's A okay! I suppose, if it wasn't for Calypso's past loves.

Odysseus, he had a wife and a son who was 20 years old in his final year on Ogygia, he is well into adult age. She also mentions the privateer Francis Drake and his wife Elizabeth, he was 45 when he married her.

If your defence is that she's actually thousands of years old, then that must also apply to Caleo. You cannot have it both ways.

Hazel and Frank

It's not that bad but it's necessary to mention for the point I will be making.

The timeline is messed up but I think they're 13 and 16 and meet at 12-15. I mean, come on.

Misogyny and Racism

What do these have in common? Well in 3/4 or 4/4, the younger one is female. In 2/4 or 3/4, the younger one is a person of colour.

Remember Nico? His crush on Percy as revealed in HoH? Well in MoA, there's a cheeky little red herring that happens a bit before Annabeth's talk with Venus (where it is revealed that Luke liked Annnabeth back). She wonders if Nico had a crush on her, but denounces him as too young. Now, Nico's age is inconsistent, I am unsure of his gap with Annabeth but I do know his gap with Percy. It's 3 years 5 months in PJO and 2 years 5 months in HoO (the series we are currently in).

So in RR's messed up mind, a white boy having a relationship with someone 2 to less than 4 years his senior is inappropriate. But a black tween girl dating someone 3 years her senior is just fine, a 12 year old biracial black girl dating a 16 year old is daijoubu, a 15 year old mestizo Latino boy dating an elderly woman is relationship goals, or the reverse a 15 year old girl dating middle aged men is a tragic romance and a 12 year old girl having mutual feelings with a 19 year old man is a "love story for the ages"!

The tv adaptation is so infuriating for this, they made Annabeth black, a lot of the changes they made came off as micro aggressions but especially her relationship with Luke. It's reduced to Luke simping for Annabeth behind her back and it's even worse because you can visibly see how large their age gap is. Heck, Charlie Bushnell and Leah Jeffries have a smaller age gap than book Luke and Annabeth.

Adultification is a huge real life issue. Children of colour and especially female children of colour are seen as less innocent than their white counterparts. Rick, who is dedicated to inclusivity should've known better than to include these illegal relationships. Stans will try and make excuses but it's there, deal with it.

As a black teenage girl who has been a fan of Rick's work for 12 years, I am disappointed.

[lady-menrva]

PJO Meme Dump (1 of ??)

DISCLAIMER: These memes merely reflect my opinions. I don't intend to spread hate or personally attack any fans, or even Riordan.

Nico before the cupid encounter:

(Crappy attempt at dark humour...)

about Rick...

𝙎𝙤𝙢𝙚 𝙋𝙚𝙧𝙘𝙮 𝙛𝙖𝙣𝙨/𝙨𝙩𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙬𝙝𝙚𝙣 𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙮 𝙧𝙚𝙖𝙡𝙞𝙨𝙚 𝙣𝙤𝙩 𝙚𝙫𝙚𝙧𝙮 𝙥𝙞𝙚𝙘𝙚 𝙤𝙛 𝙡𝙞𝙩𝙚𝙧𝙖𝙩𝙪𝙧𝙚 𝙬𝙞𝙡𝙡 𝙝𝙖𝙫𝙚 𝙋𝙚𝙧𝙘𝙮 𝙞𝙣 𝙞𝙩:

(No offense, but the whole "ThiS bOoK DoeSnT HavE PerCY In it!! " crowd is a bit too much to take... )

This one too:

[ninainthetardis]

Just something I need to get off my chest

I really think that series like Harry Potter and Percy Jackson, fantasy novels with high stakes focused plots addressed to children, should be romance free. They would be so much better without any romance in it.

I mean, as a young reader, I was just there for the action, the magic, the adventure, the plot twists, the plot itself, the characters as individuals, some of their friendships... that kind of stuff in general. I didn't give a sh*t about romance, not even when I grew up and became a teenager. And those are books meant for children and younger readers, right? So, I'm going to share the opinion I had when I was younger (the one I have now would be much harsher, not to mention much longer).

Now, all the romance in HP bored me to death; most of it didn't even make sense. I just wanted to know Voldemort's back story and then proceed to see how they were going to destroy the horcruxes, you know? And yes, I get it, they're teens at that point and it's realistic they have love interests, etc etc etc, except it felt like that author (*insert disgusted emoticon here*) only chose those couples to make all the characters related by the end of the series and none amongst the relationships was really developed to make any sense or look good. Take Hermione and Ron. They'd have zero chances to work irl. Be honest. But mostly, they're lame, boring, casual, rushed pairings with no development whatsoever (thankfully, I dare to add), usually involving characters who are not compatible at all/in the long run.

This is about the canon, but moving on to the fanon ships (Dramione/Drarry), I don't think that that author would have been able to write enemies to lovers properly (I'd add the plus: involving an LGBTQ+ couple, for the Drarry). The sole idea of any of it gives me the ick. Like no. Thanks, but no thanks.

About the PJ ships, on the other hand... they are a mess. None of them is even remotely good. They're all just a total mess, featuring the following problems:

Weird/creepy age gaps

Toxic behaviour

Emotional abuse

Physical abuse

Disrespectful behaviour

Judgemental behaviour

Disregard/dimishment of other characters' trauma

Isolation of characters from other characters they care about/may meet and befriend

Pairings of characters who are not exactly compatible/would never work in long term relationships

Glossing over problematic stuff, which is a big problem considering the audience the books are aimed at

Also, when they get together, some of them are still KIDS. KIDS!

(Fanon ships also fall under some of these points)

In both cases, it's not even like they are necessary to the plot. The funny thing here is that these stories would flow much better without those parts. What's the point of forcing romance into a story where so much is already going on, which leaves little to no space to develop things properly, and in which such romance has actually no purpose?

No romance at all is better than sloppily executed romance. And not every story needs romance in it to be compelling. Especially if they're meant for kids and are full of magic, action and adventure.

A better exploration of the characters and their trauma would have been much more interesting for me to read as kid who became a teenager while the series were coming out, instead of reading cheap romance while the characters were, well, you know, fighting wars and dealing with tons of sh*t.

[cynicalclairvoyantcadaver]

2 year age gaps in minor relationships are weird

Ok, let me go ahead and say- two year age gaps for minors are weird. It doesn't matter if it's 12 and 14 (Thaluke) or 14 and 16 (Frazel). It's still weird. What do you MEAN a FOURTEEN year old likes a TWELVE year old? Speaking as former 14 year old-no, we don't crush on 12 year old's. It's weird. And no, 16 year olds DON'T crush on 14 year olds. It's really as simple as that. And 17 year old's don't crush on 15 year olds. I really wish that Thalia or Luke had been 13 and that Hazel had been 15 years old at the start of Son of Neptune. It would've made things so much better.

And don't even get me started in 16 year old Walt and BARELY 13 year old Sadie. And Anubis. And how Rick portrayed him. Utter cultural disrespect. Rick really does write gods weird sometimes.

This is my personal opinion-you don't have to like it.

[rosesradio]

i just realized that when the newest olympian gets to the later books, Mike is gonna totally root for jiper, frazel, caleo and solangelo just because they’re canon…🫠

[hazellvsq]

my stance on frazel

son of neptune era:

house of hades era:

trials of apollo era:

[refrigeratedboombursts]

Hazel hcsm

Frank is her older brother figure.

Other than that, I don't have much that you haven't already covered lmao /vvpos

[braghis]

Listen. I had fun the last time, so i'm gonna leave here another list of my Riordanverse unpopular opinions/hot takes. I hope no one is gonna cancel me:

- Throwing every single female character in the hunters is lazy writing and kinda OOC for Reyna;

- The Cupid scene is disgusting and the fact that it was made by a queer god makes it even worse;

- Jason and Nico's friendship >>> Percy and Jason's friendship. Nico and Jason were more foils than the latter and Percy will ever be;

- Leo and Nico should have been friends, and the fact that Leo was so scarred of him in HoO is wasted potential;

- Today Percy is basically the not-so-unconfirmed most powerful demigod BUT both Nico and Hazel have the potential to being more powerful than him. However, since Percy is based on Rick's own son he refuses to elaborate on it;

- Actually GROVER is Percy's best friend, not Jason, and in HoO Annabeth and Piper had a more "kinda homoerotic bromance" going on than their boyfriends ever had;

- Aside from that, Jason is clearly alive. Trow that ToA scene away;

- Nico killing Bryce Lawrence is both the most terrifying and the best scene in both PJo and HoO;

- It would have been better if Hazel and Frank were friends-crushingoneachother during HoO and started dating in ToA;

- Riordan's amatonormativity wasted the potential of many characters (like Nico and Leo) and the potential of many friendships;

- Caleo is acceptable in HoO but in ToA it fucking sucks;

- Actually it would have been interesting if Calypso discovered herself as a lesbian during ToA OR in a possible Leo's standalone novel;

- In terms of capabilities, storylines and roles in the plot Percy, Annabeth, Nico, Hazel and Reyna are Riordan's most badass characters. Others (mostly Thalia, Jason and Piper) have the potential but are underdeveloped;

- And that in my opinion is HoO biggest problem: the series has many new interesting characters (Hazel, Leo, Reyna, Jason) but they are underdeveloped in favor of 1) romance and 2) Percabeth being in the major spotlight;

- I have mixed feeling about Percy and Annabeth being part of the Seven;

- Fierrochase >>>>> Solangelo;

- Tsats is utter dogshit and it is REALLY hard to consider it canon;

- Canon Solangelo is ableist and the fact that a big part of the fandom has no problem with it is kinda disturbing. Also some fanon solangelo contents are ableist as well and it is partly RR's fault;

- The fandom basically wrote and characterized Will Solace's character. Neither Riordan or Mark Oshiro give a fuck about him, and problably that's NOT gonna improve in the Tsats sequel;

- Accusing people who don't like solangelo and/or Tsats of homophobia is like the dumbest take ever;

- RR's representation characters are a concentration of stereotypes;

- It would have been better if Piper had her self-discovering - queer storyline from the beginning of HoO. It would have made her more interesting and relatable;

- Even more, it would have been more interesting if Piper had her queer-reveal storyline in HoO THANKS to her not-so-straight chemistry with Annabeth;

- Making Nico a overly morally correct/morally "pure" character makes him less interesting;

- CJ >>> CHB;

- Nico should be a rough demigod;

- It is heavily implied that the majority of CHB STILL doesn't like Nico and they only "tolerate" him because they like Will;

- Bisexual Jason is better and makes more sense than bisexual Percy. Jason's arc is basically a metaphor of bisexuality;

- It makes me sad how RR basically throw away every other Nico's beautiful relationships (with Jason, Reyna, Hazel, even Percy..) in favor of solangelo. Nico WAS a complex and developed character, now he's kinda just "the gay one";

- With his latest works RR is ruining his own franchise;

- PJo>>>>>>MG>>>ToA>>HoO;

[sophplanetoflove]

Rating ships bc I’m bored,

Percabeth - 100000000/10 like obv

Jercy - 10/10 I love Jercy sm u don’t understand

Valgrace - 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000/10 all I write abt is them

Solangelo - 10/10 Jsjsjs grumpy x sunshine

Shelper - they seem so cute together so far so prob like 7.5/10

Jasper/Jiper - 2/10 Pipers fake memories were cute ig?

Jeyna - IF Reyna wasn’t aroace they could’ve been cute so 4/10 don’t ship it tho

Theyna - NO. they r both huntress of Artemis ??? 0/10

Pernico - disrespectfully jail xoxo -1010918282828/10

Jasico - same as Pernico just a little less minus numbers -291982/10

Valdangelo - they r so cute 8.5/10

Pipabeth - AAAA I love them sm !! 9.5/10

Rachbeth - I don’t read much of it but from what I’ve read it’s pretty cool !! 7.5/10

Perchel - I don’t like them together :c 3/10 the kiss was cute tho

Frazel - 9/10 bc the age is a bit iffy

Caleo - -179229682698729872692862/10 rot in the pits of Tartarus tysm!!

sanubis - -17198719816186881868816/10 same as caleo

Zarter - don’t rlly know bc it was kinda fake for a lot of the ship?? But they r not bad so 6/10

Fierrochase - YESSSSSSSSSSSSS 272987298272/10

Bliztstone - 161671816/10 it’s canon idc what u say /hj

lmk if I missed any u ship ??

[queen-of-wisdom]

Frazel. It feels so unnatural and even though we all know that Frank is a good guy, it rubs me the wrong way that a 15-16 year old dates a 13-14 year girl who just got resurrected.

what are some ships you absolutely HATE in the pjo fandom? you dont even have to give a reason (you can if you want to) jst tell us what you hate!! judge-free zone

[doc-killjoy]

ships as songs in my playlist (prepare ur eye bleach, brothas)

DISCLAIMER: I AM A MULTISHIPPER

𝐒𝐎𝐋𝐀𝐍𝐆𝐄𝐋𝐎- love the ship they’re such cuties 11/10

Flares by The Script (I love this song and it suits them sm)

𝐏𝐈𝐏𝐀𝐁𝐄𝐓𝐇- I ship most of the time? 8/10

I Wanna Be Ur Girlfriend by Girl In Red (I LOVE THIS SONG IT MATCHES W THEM LIKE NO OTHER)

𝐏𝐄𝐑𝐂𝐀𝐁𝐄𝐓𝐇- I love but sometimes the dynamics bash together 9/10

Can I Call You Tonight by Dayglow (song is fire and I feel like it suits Percy and Annabeth’s dynamic after Percy went missing for a bit??? Idk)

𝐕𝐀𝐋𝐆𝐑𝐀𝐂𝐄- MY OTP MY POOKIES I LOVE THEM JASONS ALIVE 17283/10

Treehouse by Alex G (i saw that one jason cosplay w this song on Pinterest and it changed my outlook on life)

𝐉𝐄𝐑𝐂𝐘- I ship them as bros to lovers I’m sorry only cuz they’re one shots are amazing 8/10

End Of The Beginning by DJO (love the song idk I feel like they’d duet it on karaoke night (the extended 7 have karaoke nights fight me))

𝐕𝐀𝐋𝐙𝐇𝐀𝐍𝐆- the ship is so cute and cuddly and the altered enemies to lovers is so adorable 9/10

This Charming Man by The Smiths (idk i feel like the smiths sorta suit valzhang in a weird way. Lyrics r everything)

𝐅𝐑𝐀𝐙𝐄𝐋- their ship is sweet but also not taken seriously 7/10

Space Song by Beach House (idk it suits the chill happy nostalgic vibe they give off)

𝐂𝐀𝐋𝐄𝐎- first of all, fuck you. I HATE THIS SHIP SM EWW IT SHOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED GROSS-

I Don’t Love You by My Chemical Romance (I’m manifesting ok? From Leo’s pov cuz I can’t wait for him to dump and girlboss calypso also the song is great)

UPDATED VERSION💪💪💪🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🗣️🦅🦅🦅💯💯💯

[lady-menrva]

Frazel fans are like "Oh, you only dislike them because of the age gap"

Very well, then. How about the opinion that I find my chapters on integral+ differential calculus and vector algebra to have more chemistry in them than the two had between each other?

(Oh and my math is a byproduct of Physics btw. I can't dare to actually take it as a subject of it's own 😅)

[an-exasperated-hades-kid]

Ranking pjo ships cause why not :

1.Percebeth: 9.5/10

They're so cute, and I loved watching their relationship develop through out the percy jackson series like they have the I don't like you to ig we're friends now to besties who have obvious crushes on each other to lovers like this is the only slow burn that didn't make me wanna pull out hair. I love that these two would do anything for each other and are mostly supportive of each other and the seaweed brain and wise girl nicknames that went from insults to terms of endearment and I also love that they're not afraid to call each other our on their bs like I've seen stuff where percy doesn't say shit to annabeth and like have we Been reading the same books cause in MoA and HoH percy stands up for what he believes and even before that he doesn't bend to annabeths will and wishes like in botl and literally all the time in tlt like bro stands up for himself and expresses his opinions and so does annabeth and I love that ?? It's a balanced relationship in which there are years of getting to know each other and then getting together like they are bffs before lovers

But it has some issues, tho like they're wayyyy too codependent on each other which isn't that healthy but this is my opinion and I could be wrong

2. Solangelo: 8.75/10

I love them ok they're so cute like they're all about balance , acceptance, and understanding which is something nico needs in his life he doesn't need someone who'll worship him or sugarcoat stuff for him he needs someone who will be real with him about stuff like will has always been real towards nico and he has always taken care of nico wether you like it or not. Nico has always had issues that people are creeped out by him and afraid of him and will is someone who has never been afraid of nico and has treated him normally like he jokes with him and isn't walking on eggshells around him and makes him realize that not everyone hates that he can find a home in chb and nico says this tsats and even before that you can tell how nico feels and is extremely supportive of him and reminds nico that he's safe and is extremely understanding of nico . In tsats, we see that they complete each, like nico is the warrior and will is the healer, and both roles are important like nico protects will from physical harm and will patches up nicos wounds and protects him from mental and emotional harm. It also shows that no one is perfect, like Will isn't always able to understand nico so he asks for advice and this shows that trying is the best you can do for someone you love , trying to understand them and support them . They also have alot of potential in general as we've only seen them in their honeymoon stage and their developing stage we haven't gotten the established stage and sure tsats isn't perfect in the adventurous sense but the point of this book was to show healing , moving on and making peace with stuff and it did that pretty well .

The only bad points about it is that one scene in boo which shows that will had good intentions but bad execution in expressing his pov and I want them to talk about it cause what he said wasn't nice and it was quite rude ik he didn't intend it but still it was not OK . Next, I want nico to set up boundaries for himself because Will isn't a mind reader and can not know what to not do unless he's told . I want rick to tell us more about Will as a person like we know more now, but still I want rick to flesh out as a character even further

3. Jasiper: 6.5/10

They weren't well developed, and it was kinda forced by hera even tho I know that at one point they truly loved each other but it wasn't well executed and they were bad as showing it I honestly wish that they had more time to understand themselves and then into a relationship like it would have been much better that way yk

4. Frazel : 8/10

They're cute together, they make each other happy they're comfortable around each other and they trust each other hence they're a good ship

I don't see why the age gap thing is a problem because it's just 3 years and where I'm from, that's a pretty normal age gap between lovers like my grandparents have a 10 year age gap but they're happy and love each other but ill add it since some people see it as problematic. They're underdeveloped and kinda rushed, and whole I get that they knew each other before SoN but still

5. Caleo : 4/10

It came outta nowhere dude like they were together for 2 chapters and then kiss kiss fall in love like wth 🤦‍♀️ but they have potential to be good ship ig I'm being generous with 4 because of that also the age gap thing isn't a problem because mentally and physically calypso is like 15-16 but if you see it chronologically calypso is older than apollo who is 4 thousand five hundred years old and that's 🚔🚨👈😄

6. Valgrace : 7/10

So so much potential they would have been soo cute and the most un problematic 🤧

7. Percico : 3/10

No, just no percy literally strangled nico when he was 12 even though he knew that nico didn't mean to betray him and honestly just wanted to know about his mom which percy should have understood because his mom means the world to him and it was clear that nico didn't expect hades to double cross him and percy had a right to be mad but strangling nico is too far . Bro also implied that nico doesn't belong in chb at the end of botl, and bro was silent during the negotiation of whether to save nico or to let him suffocate inside a jar which un excusable he also kept giving nico responsibilities like dealing with hades's wrath which could result in death during tlo and then the whole doors of death thing when nico was extremely weak. so yeah, no, they'd be toxic asf oh and I forgot mention percy never apologized for anything and never thanked him ( from what I remember, it's been a min since I read tlo ) also nico had a case of hero worship crush on him which would make a power imbalance in that relationship soooo

8. Jasico : 5/10

I see them as bros and so does rick and it's written in a way that people would see them as friends like it's clear that nico doesn't like jason like that and in tsats it's said that he missed the feeling of Jason's protective arms around him because he trusts jason and if he was to say something about Reynas hug it would be the same thing or even hazels hugs because that's how he sees them In a platonic/ familial way ( not saying that jason is his brother here ) and he also said something like a part of him died when jason died and that's because he cared about jason like he was his 1st actual friend and he felt him die so this is understandable he's allowed to grieve his friend and miss him . Also, jason is kinda unfortunately dead 😕 😔 so it's outta the question. And if he ended up with jason the whole I can belong thing wouldn't happen because it was will who made him realize that he can have a place in chb jason tired to tell him that but nico didn't really believe him . But hey, I understand the jasico shippers and respect the ship. I don't ship it, and I never will, but I can see why people like it because jason does care about nico and nico cares about jason .

Wait, I think it's canon that nico heard the sevens debate on whether he should be saved or not in his dreams, and if it is canon, then nico saw jason vote for him to die in a jar sooo

9. Jercy : 6/10

I don't ship it ship it but it's a fun thing to think about. It's my crack ship, but I could not see it happen in Canon at all

10. Pipebeth : 6/10

Annabeth was definitely pipers queer awakening, but same as jercy, it's my crack ship

11. Reyna with anyone is not my thing because rick said she's aro/ace, but if you ship theyna or jayna, you're cool because her sexuality isn't confirmed in the books, so you can interpret it in anyway you want

12 . Nico x any girl is ew because he's gay it's confrimed in the books and multiple times by rick himself and if you ship him with any female gtfo

13. Valdangelo : 2/10

I don't know how leo views nico now, but when we do get his pov, he always has something bad or rude to say about him and as much as I love leo it makes me wanna hit him

I'm sorry for the typos and mistakes. I still don't have my glasses, and if I'm wrong about something, please correct me

[rosesradio]

The way I read the the tags on the reblog and was like, "Oh yeah, this definitely applies to Rina...oh, I wonder what Fandom the ship Frazel is from, I'll have to look them up."

I STRAIGHT UP FORGOT FRANK AND HAZEL WAS A THING AND THAT WOULD BE THEIR COUPLE NAME.

Richard Riordan has a cork board in his office where he has a bunch of pictures of characters. He then rolls the dice to determine what trio to send off, then throws a dart to determine which random boy will be partnered with which random girl.

(or! diversity win! which random boy will be partnered with which random boy and displayed in ways that make you rediscover your homophobic ways of 2012!)

This is how it’s always worked he makes those pairs that really scream. lifelong dedication 💀

[valewritessss]

Here I thought Frazel was the most unproblematic canon ship fandom wise, but I just learned there’s an anti frazel tag so never mind