#Anti frazel

[emma-o-yt]

Rick Riordan's problematic age gaps

Apparently reddit hates criticism because this got removed from there after a few minutes, maybe I can get it back up...anyways.

The age of consent in Texas is 17, Texas is where Rick lived (according to wikipedia) up until 2013. And yet...here we are.

Where do I even begin with this bullf*ckery? How about the most egregious of all?

Luke and Annabeth

We have two lines confirming their mutual feelings, one from The Demigod Diaries:

"Overtime, Annabeth developed a crush on Luke. As Annabeth got older, Luke developed feelings for her, too."

Mark of Athena (from her conversation with Venus):

"First there was Luke Castellan, her first crush, who had seen her only as a little sister; then he’d turned evil and decided he liked her—right before he died."

Now let me remind you, Annabeth and Luke have a seven year age difference, they knew each other at 7 and 14. By the time he died, Annabeth was just 16, while he was 23. And it's implied he begun returning her feelings a little before he asked her to run away, perhaps when she was 14. He's paralleled with Percy as Annabeth is his string in the river styx. He asks Annabeth explicitly if she loved him romantically (and she denies because Percy is there).

It's disgustingly inappropriate but at the very least they don't end up together...as for when they do...

Sadie Kane and Anubis

When it comes to immortal romance, I usually go for coded age. Anubis is thousands of years old but is mentally and physically 16, which is fine and dandy except for the fact that Sadie is 12. What do you want me to say except Rick is disgusting for promoting this.

Speaking of extreme age gaps:

Calypso and Leo

When you have a philosophy that every character must end up in a relationship, you run out of sensical options to pair up. Now, I'm a Caleo hater mainly because of how it retconned PJO and also because they are very toxic.

Now hold on, doesn't Caleo fall into coded age? Calypso is 15/16 and Leo is 15, so it's A okay! I suppose, if it wasn't for Calypso's past loves.

Odysseus, he had a wife and a son who was 20 years old in his final year on Ogygia, he is well into adult age. She also mentions the privateer Francis Drake and his wife Elizabeth, he was 45 when he married her.

If your defence is that she's actually thousands of years old, then that must also apply to Caleo. You cannot have it both ways.

Hazel and Frank

It's not that bad but it's necessary to mention for the point I will be making.

The timeline is messed up but I think they're 13 and 16 and meet at 12-15. I mean, come on.

Misogyny and Racism

What do these have in common? Well in 3/4 or 4/4, the younger one is female. In 2/4 or 3/4, the younger one is a person of colour.

Remember Nico? His crush on Percy as revealed in HoH? Well in MoA, there's a cheeky little red herring that happens a bit before Annabeth's talk with Venus (where it is revealed that Luke liked Annnabeth back). She wonders if Nico had a crush on her, but denounces him as too young. Now, Nico's age is inconsistent, I am unsure of his gap with Annabeth but I do know his gap with Percy. It's 3 years 5 months in PJO and 2 years 5 months in HoO (the series we are currently in).

So in RR's messed up mind, a white boy having a relationship with someone 2 to less than 4 years his senior is inappropriate. But a black tween girl dating someone 3 years her senior is just fine, a 12 year old biracial black girl dating a 16 year old is daijoubu, a 15 year old mestizo Latino boy dating an elderly woman is relationship goals, or the reverse a 15 year old girl dating middle aged men is a tragic romance and a 12 year old girl having mutual feelings with a 19 year old man is a "love story for the ages"!

The tv adaptation is so infuriating for this, they made Annabeth black, a lot of the changes they made came off as micro aggressions but especially her relationship with Luke. It's reduced to Luke simping for Annabeth behind her back and it's even worse because you can visibly see how large their age gap is. Heck, Charlie Bushnell and Leah Jeffries have a smaller age gap than book Luke and Annabeth.

Adultification is a huge real life issue. Children of colour and especially female children of colour are seen as less innocent than their white counterparts. Rick, who is dedicated to inclusivity should've known better than to include these illegal relationships. Stans will try and make excuses but it's there, deal with it.

As a black teenage girl who has been a fan of Rick's work for 12 years, I am disappointed.

[necromancer-at-abattoir]

My thoughts on Frazel and why the hell is Hazel 14 in HOO?

You know, I've found the fact that Rick Riordan chose to make his main black character, who is also a girl, the youngest demigod of the Seven an odd choice.

Of course, Rick done effed up with Hazel's representation, and this is my critique on her age and why she didn't need to be thirteen.

Hazel Levesque is actually fourteen years old in Son of Neptune. But many readers think that she's thirteen years old because she states that she was thirteen when she died and she never acknowledged that she was fourteen years old.

But if we fit the pieces together-Hazel was thirteen and a half when she died. She came to Camp Jupiter a month before Jason was taken, which meant that by the time Son of Neptune happened, 8 months had passed, making her fourteen years and two months old.

But as I said before, we never get explicit confirmation from Hazel or any other character that she is fourteen, leading most of the readers to think that she is thirteen years old. We must fit the pieces together ourselves.

If Rick himself didn't bother to outright say that Hazel was fourteen, then he must have written the Frazel dynamic to make a 13 year old BLACK girl date a 16 year old boy. Because why wouldn't Rick have Hazel state that she was 14 years old? Why would he just have her state that she was thirteen when she died, but not make her state that she had since turned fourteen? Nothing about her fourteenth birthday?

If he intended to make Hazel fourteen and have us know, then he would have stated that she was fourteen, but he never does, which means that he was actually writing Frazel to be a 13-16 year old dating. Wow. Just.........wow.

In fact, I personally believe that Rick was writing Hazel and Frank to be 13-16 BECAUSE HE LITERALLY HAS HAZEL SAY THAT FRANK IS 3 YEARS OLDER THAN HER. HE NEVER ARGUES AGAINST THIS EITHER.

HAZEL BEING 14 WAS 99.99 PERCENT ACCIDENTAL ON HIS PART.

If there is actually a sentence saying that Hazel is fourteen years old, please tell me and I'll change this post. But I need explicit confirmation.

(And do not get started on that Hazel is confused crap. Rick was confused-Hazel is a fictional character who has no autonomy. If Rick had truly intended her to be fourteen, he would have made her say it at some point in the series.)

All right, I'm going to tell you my thoughts about Frazel. I'm going to summarise my opinions and then elaborate beneath.

1) The Frazel age gap is controversial. Hazel is 13 and a half while Frank is newly 15. It's one and a half year (correct me if I'm wrong, please). While some accept this, to others, it's not a good age gap and the maturity levels are different

2)They feel forced and rushed. We know that they knew each other for 8-9 months, but we don't see this, so it's rushed and forced to us. They skip the pure platonic friendship and jump straight to the romance-the Frazel moments in SON were heavily streaked with romance, not just platonic feelings

3) BEHAVIOURALLY SPEAKING, however they're the best couple in the PJO universe. Better than Percabeth, Caleo, Jiper and Solangelo

4) Frazel could have been one of the top ships of PJO if Rick had made Hazel older and if he had given us more memories and reminiscences of their time at Camp Jupiter

I don't understand why Hazel had to die at thirteen years old. Why not make her die at fourteen or fifteen? It would change nothing except making Frazel acceptable regarding the age gap.

See, Frazel's age gap is controversial. I mean, if Hazel was thirteen and Frank sixteen, it would've been taboo entirely, but since she's fourteen and he's sixteen with a 1 year and few month age gap, some people like it and others don't.

And when scrolling through the Anti Frazel tag, I see that most of the posts have the age gap as their main argument, which further cements the fact that Frazel's age gap is really what makes most people dislike it in the first place.

Technically, if Hazel turned 14 in December and Frank was still 15 but turned 16 in June, this makes their age gap one and a half years, which is very weird to some people but acceptable to others.

Hazel and Frank met at 13 and a half and 15 years old respectively and started to gain feelings for each other, which is very, very odd to some people but ok for others.

But if Hazel had died at 14 and been brought back, then she would have turned 15 in December and would be biologically half a year younger than Frank, which would push it from controversial to acceptable by all.

And in case you're thinking about the Great Prophecy in the OG PJO series, Hazel died before it came out, and she could have died at 14 and it still wouldn't have come out. Hell, she could die at 16 and it wouldn't have come out. It came out after WWII ended which is in 1945, and Hazel would turn 16 in 1944 because she was born in 1928.

2) They're way too rushed.

Ok, we get one book with them, and that too, they've already jumped to the romance. They were friends, but now they both romantically like each other but don't know that the other person likes them.

There's no platonic friendship here, only crushes. And a ship needs to have platonic friendship and development to be a proper ship that's accepted by the fandom, otherwise many readers will think that it's boring.

As I said above, my only bones to pick with Frazel is that I think that the age gap is weird and that they were too rushed. In the end, that's all.

3) BEHAVIOURALLY SPEAKING they are the best couple in the PJOverse hands down. No other ship compares.

All right so Percabeth is toxic. Search it up. Annabeth's behaviour towards Percy is toxic. Search it up. I do not need to tell you, it's too long for this post.

Caleo? I don't need to tell you how Calypso yells at, belittles and hits Leo, thus chipping away at his already crumbling self-esteem.

Jiper? Piper literally claims Jason as hers in front of the entire Aphrodite cabin WHO WILL MOST CERTAINLY TELL PEOPLE ABOUT THIS without Jason's knowledge or consent. And she's jealous when he brings up another girl, even his sister. And while she may not be physically abusive, she's still manipulative, and that's very bad.

Solangelo? Will Solace victim-blames Nico and literally tells him that he knows what's best for his health even though Nico can and has taken care of himself. There's also jealousy written terribly that's supposed to be a cute moment that never gets resolved.

Frazel, though.........they're behaviourally amazing for each other. No physical, verbal or mental abuse. No dismissing the other's intelligence. They're sweet to each other and aren't possessive of each other.

(Well, in TON, Hazel ribs Frank and rolls her eyes and tells him not to show off his sweater wrap that makes him excited for no reason. Yikes. He ruined them too. Damn it.)

Of course, Frank gets suspicious when Hedge makes that comment about Hazel and Leo, but the way it was worded was bound to make Frank misunderstand. Also, Frank and Leo make it up and Frank does not use Leo on Hazel like Annabeth uses Rachel and the others on Percy.

Frank understands where they went wrong and accepts it. The others don't.

Of course, they're also a biracial couple where both of them are POC, so this is also a huge win. Best couple in PJOverse is also biracial POC couple. YEEEEEESSSSSSSS (Even if Rick fucked up while representing their ethnicities)

PS: I'm not anti Frazel

[lady-menrva]

PJO Meme Dump (1 of ??)

DISCLAIMER: These memes merely reflect my opinions. I don't intend to spread hate or personally attack any fans, or even Riordan.

Nico before the cupid encounter:

(Crappy attempt at dark humour...)

about Rick...

𝙎𝙤𝙢𝙚 𝙋𝙚𝙧𝙘𝙮 𝙛𝙖𝙣𝙨/𝙨𝙩𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙬𝙝𝙚𝙣 𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙮 𝙧𝙚𝙖𝙡𝙞𝙨𝙚 𝙣𝙤𝙩 𝙚𝙫𝙚𝙧𝙮 𝙥𝙞𝙚𝙘𝙚 𝙤𝙛 𝙡𝙞𝙩𝙚𝙧𝙖𝙩𝙪𝙧𝙚 𝙬𝙞𝙡𝙡 𝙝𝙖𝙫𝙚 𝙋𝙚𝙧𝙘𝙮 𝙞𝙣 𝙞𝙩:

(No offense, but the whole "ThiS bOoK DoeSnT HavE PerCY In it!! " crowd is a bit too much to take... )

This one too:

[ninainthetardis]

Just something I need to get off my chest

I really think that series like Harry Potter and Percy Jackson, fantasy novels with high stakes focused plots addressed to children, should be romance free. They would be so much better without any romance in it.

I mean, as a young reader, I was just there for the action, the magic, the adventure, the plot twists, the plot itself, the characters as individuals, some of their friendships... that kind of stuff in general. I didn't give a sh*t about romance, not even when I grew up and became a teenager. And those are books meant for children and younger readers, right? So, I'm going to share the opinion I had when I was younger (the one I have now would be much harsher, not to mention much longer).

Now, all the romance in HP bored me to death; most of it didn't even make sense. I just wanted to know Voldemort's back story and then proceed to see how they were going to destroy the horcruxes, you know? And yes, I get it, they're teens at that point and it's realistic they have love interests, etc etc etc, except it felt like that author (*insert disgusted emoticon here*) only chose those couples to make all the characters related by the end of the series and none amongst the relationships was really developed to make any sense or look good. Take Hermione and Ron. They'd have zero chances to work irl. Be honest. But mostly, they're lame, boring, casual, rushed pairings with no development whatsoever (thankfully, I dare to add), usually involving characters who are not compatible at all/in the long run.

This is about the canon, but moving on to the fanon ships (Dramione/Drarry), I don't think that that author would have been able to write enemies to lovers properly (I'd add the plus: involving an LGBTQ+ couple, for the Drarry). The sole idea of any of it gives me the ick. Like no. Thanks, but no thanks.

About the PJ ships, on the other hand... they are a mess. None of them is even remotely good. They're all just a total mess, featuring the following problems:

Weird/creepy age gaps

Toxic behaviour

Emotional abuse

Physical abuse

Disrespectful behaviour

Judgemental behaviour

Disregard/dimishment of other characters' trauma

Isolation of characters from other characters they care about/may meet and befriend

Pairings of characters who are not exactly compatible/would never work in long term relationships

Glossing over problematic stuff, which is a big problem considering the audience the books are aimed at

Also, when they get together, some of them are still KIDS. KIDS!

(Fanon ships also fall under some of these points)

In both cases, it's not even like they are necessary to the plot. The funny thing here is that these stories would flow much better without those parts. What's the point of forcing romance into a story where so much is already going on, which leaves little to no space to develop things properly, and in which such romance has actually no purpose?

No romance at all is better than sloppily executed romance. And not every story needs romance in it to be compelling. Especially if they're meant for kids and are full of magic, action and adventure.

A better exploration of the characters and their trauma would have been much more interesting for me to read as kid who became a teenager while the series were coming out, instead of reading cheap romance while the characters were, well, you know, fighting wars and dealing with tons of sh*t.

[reblogdumpforme]

No shade at Frazel fans, but I simply don’t understand why the ship is so popular. It strikes me as that vanilla fluff 14-15 year olds write on ao3 and wattpad Once again, sorry if this was offensive.

[rosesradio]

i just realized that when the newest olympian gets to the later books, Mike is gonna totally root for jiper, frazel, caleo and solangelo just because they’re canon…🫠

[hazellvsq]

my stance on frazel

son of neptune era:

house of hades era:

trials of apollo era:

[refrigeratedboombursts]

Hazel hcsm

Frank is her older brother figure.

Other than that, I don't have much that you haven't already covered lmao /vvpos

[necromancer-at-abattoir]

Not even Frazel is good now :(

*Sigh* Reading TON and Hazel ribs Frank. And she rolls her eyes at him tells him no with the sweater wrap even though there's nothing wrong with it and he likes it.

Rick didn't even spare Frazel, huh :(

[jasongracestannr]

this is literally how i feel with jason !!! like he doesn’t need a relationship he needs to heal 😭😭 like he didn’t even get time to process his trauma in his first war and he didn’t even get time to do it in the second 😭😭 like a relationship does not fix mental issues \ depression

I HATE VALGRACE!! I HATE CALEO!! I HATE ANY AND EVERY SINGLE SHIP WITH LEO!! HE DOESNT NEED A LOVER HE NEEDS CHARACTER AND PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT!! HES DEPRESSED!! HES NOT OKAY!!

jason is a very interesting and amazing character (calypso not so much) but i feel like their relationship WOULD. NOT. WORK. they are both WAYYYY to messed up to be in a healthy and safe relationship!! they aren’t ready!! i personally don’t think ANY of the seven are ready for an actual relationship but i don’t want percabeth fans killing me. they are kids with such severe trauma i promise you the last thing they would be thinking of is dating! i think that making dating such a big deal (seen with percabeth and leo) was a real flaw in the books and made the actual storyline seem more watered down :(

[lady-menrva]

Frazel fans are like "Oh, you only dislike them because of the age gap"

Very well, then. How about the opinion that I find my chapters on integral+ differential calculus and vector algebra to have more chemistry in them than the two had between each other?

(Oh and my math is a byproduct of Physics btw. I can't dare to actually take it as a subject of it's own 😅)

[braghis]

Listen. I had fun the last time, so i'm gonna leave here another list of my Riordanverse unpopular opinions/hot takes. I hope no one is gonna cancel me:

- Throwing every single female character in the hunters is lazy writing and kinda OOC for Reyna;

- The Cupid scene is disgusting and the fact that it was made by a queer god makes it even worse;

- Jason and Nico's friendship >>> Percy and Jason's friendship. Nico and Jason were more foils than the latter and Percy will ever be;

- Leo and Nico should have been friends, and the fact that Leo was so scarred of him in HoO is wasted potential;

- Today Percy is basically the not-so-unconfirmed most powerful demigod BUT both Nico and Hazel have the potential to being more powerful than him. However, since Percy is based on Rick's own son he refuses to elaborate on it;

- Actually GROVER is Percy's best friend, not Jason, and in HoO Annabeth and Piper had a more "kinda homoerotic bromance" going on than their boyfriends ever had;

- Aside from that, Jason is clearly alive. Trow that ToA scene away;

- Nico killing Bryce Lawrence is both the most terrifying and the best scene in both PJo and HoO;

- It would have been better if Hazel and Frank were friends-crushingoneachother during HoO and started dating in ToA;

- Riordan's amatonormativity wasted the potential of many characters (like Nico and Leo) and the potential of many friendships;

- Caleo is acceptable in HoO but in ToA it fucking sucks;

- Actually it would have been interesting if Calypso discovered herself as a lesbian during ToA OR in a possible Leo's standalone novel;

- In terms of capabilities, storylines and roles in the plot Percy, Annabeth, Nico, Hazel and Reyna are Riordan's most badass characters. Others (mostly Thalia, Jason and Piper) have the potential but are underdeveloped;

- And that in my opinion is HoO biggest problem: the series has many new interesting characters (Hazel, Leo, Reyna, Jason) but they are underdeveloped in favor of 1) romance and 2) Percabeth being in the major spotlight;

- I have mixed feeling about Percy and Annabeth being part of the Seven;

- Fierrochase >>>>> Solangelo;

- Tsats is utter dogshit and it is REALLY hard to consider it canon;

- Canon Solangelo is ableist and the fact that a big part of the fandom has no problem with it is kinda disturbing. Also some fanon solangelo contents are ableist as well and it is partly RR's fault;

- The fandom basically wrote and characterized Will Solace's character. Neither Riordan or Mark Oshiro give a fuck about him, and problably that's NOT gonna improve in the Tsats sequel;

- Accusing people who don't like solangelo and/or Tsats of homophobia is like the dumbest take ever;

- RR's representation characters are a concentration of stereotypes;

- It would have been better if Piper had her self-discovering - queer storyline from the beginning of HoO. It would have made her more interesting and relatable;

- Even more, it would have been more interesting if Piper had her queer-reveal storyline in HoO THANKS to her not-so-straight chemistry with Annabeth;

- Making Nico a overly morally correct/morally "pure" character makes him less interesting;

- CJ >>> CHB;

- Nico should be a rough demigod;

- It is heavily implied that the majority of CHB STILL doesn't like Nico and they only "tolerate" him because they like Will;

- Bisexual Jason is better and makes more sense than bisexual Percy. Jason's arc is basically a metaphor of bisexuality;

- It makes me sad how RR basically throw away every other Nico's beautiful relationships (with Jason, Reyna, Hazel, even Percy..) in favor of solangelo. Nico WAS a complex and developed character, now he's kinda just "the gay one";

- With his latest works RR is ruining his own franchise;

- PJo>>>>>>MG>>>ToA>>HoO;

[sophplanetoflove]

Rating ships bc I’m bored,

Percabeth - 100000000/10 like obv

Jercy - 10/10 I love Jercy sm u don’t understand

Valgrace - 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000/10 all I write abt is them

Solangelo - 10/10 Jsjsjs grumpy x sunshine

Shelper - they seem so cute together so far so prob like 7.5/10

Jasper/Jiper - 2/10 Pipers fake memories were cute ig?

Jeyna - IF Reyna wasn’t aroace they could’ve been cute so 4/10 don’t ship it tho

Theyna - NO. they r both huntress of Artemis ??? 0/10

Pernico - disrespectfully jail xoxo -1010918282828/10

Jasico - same as Pernico just a little less minus numbers -291982/10

Valdangelo - they r so cute 8.5/10

Pipabeth - AAAA I love them sm !! 9.5/10

Rachbeth - I don’t read much of it but from what I’ve read it’s pretty cool !! 7.5/10

Perchel - I don’t like them together :c 3/10 the kiss was cute tho

Frazel - 9/10 bc the age is a bit iffy

Caleo - -179229682698729872692862/10 rot in the pits of Tartarus tysm!!

sanubis - -17198719816186881868816/10 same as caleo

Zarter - don’t rlly know bc it was kinda fake for a lot of the ship?? But they r not bad so 6/10

Fierrochase - YESSSSSSSSSSSSS 272987298272/10

Bliztstone - 161671816/10 it’s canon idc what u say /hj

lmk if I missed any u ship ??

[queen-of-wisdom]

Frazel. It feels so unnatural and even though we all know that Frank is a good guy, it rubs me the wrong way that a 15-16 year old dates a 13-14 year girl who just got resurrected.

what are some ships you absolutely HATE in the pjo fandom? you dont even have to give a reason (you can if you want to) jst tell us what you hate!! judge-free zone

[rosesradio]

The way I read the the tags on the reblog and was like, "Oh yeah, this definitely applies to Rina...oh, I wonder what Fandom the ship Frazel is from, I'll have to look them up."

I STRAIGHT UP FORGOT FRANK AND HAZEL WAS A THING AND THAT WOULD BE THEIR COUPLE NAME.

Richard Riordan has a cork board in his office where he has a bunch of pictures of characters. He then rolls the dice to determine what trio to send off, then throws a dart to determine which random boy will be partnered with which random girl.

(or! diversity win! which random boy will be partnered with which random boy and displayed in ways that make you rediscover your homophobic ways of 2012!)

This is how it’s always worked he makes those pairs that really scream. lifelong dedication 💀

[lenore-d0ve]

Something that annoys me about hoo is that Richard seems to believe that the only possible relationships are high school sweethearts😭 like I’d LOVE frazel if they got together when they were adults(and not like 18 but more like mid 20s)