#Anne is marrying Wentworth and no one is stopping her

[bethanydelleman]

Anne Elliot 🤝 Edward Ferrars

Seem passive, timid, and weak, until at the end of the novel when they finally have something (someone) they really want and you can pry it (them) from their cold, dead hands.

[heyimdove]

More on why Persuasion is the real Jane Austen parallel to Aziracrow, and why Pride and Prejudice is not, because I can’t stop dwelling.

There’s a lot here so I’ll try to structure this in a way that makes sense. Wish me luck.

I’ve seen so many people equate Aziraphale to Lizzie and Crowley to Darcy, but these comparisons don’t make sense. Character-wise, they are far more like Anne Elliot and Frederick Wentworth, respectively.

We’ll start with Elizabeth Bennet, who I love with all my heart and is one of those characters I feel like I know (I’m delusional, it’s fine). Elizabeth is wonderfully intelligent, but she isn’t “accomplished” and isn’t a perfect specimen of Regency womanhood. Instead she’s sharp and headstrong. She wants to live how she wants and with someone she loves for a partner. She rejects a match that is, on paper, perfect and would solve all her family’s problems, because she won’t settle for unhappiness. You know who that doesn’t sound like?

Aziraphale, were he a Regency Era woman, would be considered very accomplished for the time; well-read, polite, even a music tutor. But he’s more unlike Elizabeth because he desires to “do what’s best for the family”. In other words, if Elizabeth Bennet was more like Aziraphale, she’d be married to Mr. Collins. She would’ve considered it her duty to marry him because it would protect her loved ones (see Aziraphale accepting the Metatron). For Aziraphale, his duty to protect trumps his personal desire.

So does that make Crowley our Lizzie? No, that doesn’t fit either, and not only because Aziraphale makes a terrible Darcy. Sure, Aziraphale’s status as an angel might be considered comparable to Darcy’s elevated status as a rich person, but Crowley has never hated Aziraphale, never even considered it, and wouldn’t hate him even after the rejection. Lizzie’s hatred is what spurs Darcy to grow. Darcy needed to be completely despised by her to decide to put in the work to be worthy of her.

Okay, so then is Crowley Darcy? Perhaps we could shoehorn that in somewhere because Darcy doesn’t seem good but actually is, or is considered grouchy, but it’s such a loose connection, it barely works-

-Especially when you consider how much better the two fit as the protagonists of Persuasion.

(And yes, shut up, I liked the Dakota Johnson one and I will be using the gifs.)

Where Pride and Prejudice is about two different people gradually seeing the value in the other, Persuasion is the story of two different people seeing the value in the other right from the start, but who then repeatedly make mistakes that keep them separate and in agony.

Aziraphale is *so* much like Anne. First, Anne is the only reasonable (read: likable) member of her high-born family, who believe people in other societal castes to not only be inferior, but disgusting.

Anne sees this is not true, and falls madly in love with the low-born Wentworth- only to be persuaded by outside input not to marry him. Station and familial duty play a part in this decision, and she regrets it for years. She is completely unable to move on.

Like Aziraphale, Anne is certainly more accomplished, for one thing, and she plays by the rules of women of her time and status. BUT her sense of mortality breaks often from that of her family. When she tries to impart her good morals upon them, they are dismissive and insulting, reacting as if Anne is the one who “doesn’t get it”.

She spends eight years with a family she barely belongs to, wondering why she ever thought the company of people like this was worth the loss of Wentworth.

For all of Anne’s kindness, she is a pushover. She’s rarely confident in herself. When she needs to speak up, or just have a direct conversation with Wentworth, she doesn’t. She can’t. She repeatedly makes Wentworth come to her.

Wentworth, meanwhile, is a far better match for Crowley than Darcy is. Wentworth will never be an aristocrat like the Elliots, but he carves out a life he considers valuable using new rules. Sound familiar?

Are Wentworth’s and Crowley’s morals obviously a bit different? Yes, of course. Crowley is a DEMON, after all. But Crowley conducts himself in such a way that he’s literally cast out of Heaven and removed from Hell- in other words, he’s twice been given “the rules” for how to act and has twice decided, nah, that’s not for me. Wentworth was given the rules for what he could have as a low-born man and became a wealthy, high-ranking naval officer. And Wentworth didn’t do that for love, either. He found the consideration of one’s wealth in determining whether they should be loved abhorrent. Wentworth did it for himself initially (bitterly too, maybe), just like Crowley saves the goats and the kids for himself.

And, of course, Crowley’s confession parallels Wentworth’s position in relation to Anne far more than Darcy’s position to Lizzie. Crowley says “if they (two apparent opposites) can do it, so can we,” because he knows he and Aziraphale love each other. At the start of Persuasion, Wentworth asks Anne to be his wife despite their differing societal rank because he knows they love each other. At the end of Persuasion, he asks again because he knows they have both been in agony, that they both love each other as much as they ever did.

Darcy, meanwhile, does not know if Lizzie loves him, but arrogantly believes she will accept on the basis that what he can offer her monetarily is better than what anyone else can, not knowing what she actually values. She demolishes him.

On that note, that’s really the only parallel between Aziracrow and Darcy/Lizzie, only Aziraphale is Darcy. Aziraphale believed Crowley would accept his offer because he believed Crowley would want to be an angel again. Crowley believed Aziraphale would accept his offer because he knew they loved each other.

These are all very different characters, but ultimately, I think we were gunning for Pride and Prejudice and wound up with Persuasion; the slowest, most agonizing burn with the most beautiful reunion. So we didn’t get “you have bewitched me, body and soul,” in S2. We got the events leading up to Persuasion, and will have S3 to watch them play out. Neil knows that Aziraphale and Crowley’s relationship is the most compelling part of the story, so I doubt they’ll be separated for long. But everything is so messy, isn’t it? So it makes sense to keep them, like Anne and Wentworth, in close proximity, in mutual, bitter, unspoken pining, but still not together. It will be absolutely delicious to watch. Isn’t that what we loved the most from S1?

Because we know they love each other. And whatever catalyzing event forces them to say it out loud will be all the better if every moment they don’t say it hurts. I don’t want a “you have bewitched me” moment, I want “I’m half agony, half hope.”

[nthattemptatit]

Currently trying to resist re-reading Persuasion as I'm really supposed to be sending out job applications as much as I can, but I can't stop thinking about it! There are so many questions floating in my mind, but one of them is when exactly the Crofts married. I'm assuming, because Mrs. Croft wasn't around when Frederick first visited Somersetshire, and because Anne knows exactly who Admiral Croft is in the beginning of the book, that they were already married when Frederick and Anne met.

So naturally the question that follows is "Why did everybody think Frederick was a worthless sailor with no prospects if his brother-in-law was an Admiral?" He was well connected in the navy at least, despite being young and not having made his fortune yet. And he was by all appearances already a Captain by then, suggesting that someone was indeed looking out for him, making sure he was being promoted. I'm assuming that person was his brother-in-law. My understanding of the navy at the time and promotions comes mostly from Mansfield Park, FYI.

There are two explanations for this, of course: 1) Lady Russell, as class-conscious as she is, would still not have considered a Captain without fortune to be good enough for the daughter of a baronet; and 2) There is always the instability and anxiety that comes with marrying a seafaring sailor (as opposed to one who would work on land in a more administrative capacity). AND THERE IS A WAR GOING ON. This is in no way to condemn Lady Russell's worries for Anne, her favorite Elliot. I'm also reminded of @bethanydelleman's post about how Wentworth's character might seem Willoughby-esq. And Lady Russell surely would have had the worldly experience to recognize such character traits and the dangers they might represent. But I do nonetheless find it interesting that it's never mentioned that Wentworth had a bit more going for him than the average sailor.

[delphinidin4]

So, I watched the new Netflix Persuasion last night. I was bracing myself for something awful, because all the reviews online were SO negative. Having braced myself... I actually enjoyed it. lol

Some notes, in no particular order (spoilers):

Racial diversity ftw we love to see it

omg Mr. Eliot really WAS a ten

Anne was also gorgeous

I want to hear Admiral Croft's magnificent voice waaaaay more than we had the chance to

Good depiction of Mary's kids

Lovely actors chosen for Henrietta and Louisa!!

Perfect casting for Sir Walter, 10/10, no notes.

One of my FAVORITE things about this adaption is Mary Musgrove. She is just HILARIOUS. To Austen's original audience, Mary would have resembled people they knew, and they would be laughing and rolling their eyes at the accuracy and ridiculousness. In most dramatic adaptations I've seen of Persuasion, Mary is just fucking annoying. So by updating her to the kind of annoying person WE know in 2023, they made the character funny again.

The ways that they modernized it were really interesting. Having people know that Wentworth and Anne were exes added some layers of subtlety to the social interactions, which was interesting. I don't care for cringe humor, so I wasn't fond of that the couple of times it came up (saying that Charles had wanted to Mary her was SO cringe that I fast-forwarded lol). Yeah, the direct address and self-deprecating humor could get a little precious, but it really didn't bother me.

The changes were interesting in general, and really change one's interpretation of the story. Like Louisa making sure Anne was okay with Louisa going after Anne's ex, or Mr. Eliot being upfront about trying to stop Sir Walter from marrying --- and then nobody at all having a problem with him ending up with Mrs. Clay. (I also like that Wentworth got a jab in to Mary about being a snob when they were visiting the Hargroves.)

I will tell you the one thing that annoyed me the most about this adaptation, and I'm not sure it's one that the reviews really talked about: Wentworth was only semi-good-looking and every time he talked he sounded like he was on the verge of either tears or a belch. Not attractive. Go for Mr. Eliot, Anne. He's a 10.

[theroseandthebeast]

Yuletide 2022 Recs, Batch Five

17 recs for Master & Commander, Midsommar, Nope, Only Murders In The Building, Peacemaker, Persuasion, Point Break, Pyre, Ready or Not?, Severance, The Sleuth of the Ming Dynasty, Transistor, and Under the Banner of Heaven

Cadential Motion

Jack Aubrey/Stephen Maturin - “I’ll be frank with you, Captain, it’s a relief to finally have you in my chair. I was beginning to worry that you didn’t trust my expertise.”

Aubrey and Maturin discover that their first impressions of one another were borne out of some misunderstandings.

Hasaeti 

Dani Ardor/Pelle - Dani learns about the ongoing responsibilities of the May Queen, deepens her relationship with the land - and finds her throne.

Beyond The Stars

Angel Torres, OJ Haywood - It'd been seven months since they last spoke, but who's counting?

Making wishes is a sucker’s game, but at least there’s cake

Mabel Mora & Oliver Putnam & Charles-Haden Savage - Mabel isn’t celebrating her birthday because she stopped doing that when she was 8 years old. Charles and Oliver find a way to be there for her anyway.

Portrait of the Artist

Theo Dimas/Mabel Mora, Mabel Mora & Oliver Putnam & Charles-Haden Savage - Winter brings back memories for Mabel, but also the opportunity to make new ones.

I'm Feeling This

Adrian Chase/Christopher Smith - Adrian doesn't have feelings but he does feel things. He feels a lot for Chris. More than for anyone else.

I Must Go Up From The Seas Again.

Anne Elliot/Frederick Wentworth - It sounds bitter to say that he's still not over his ex who wouldn't uproot her entire life, leave her entire support system behind, and go be a trailing spouse for five years in a place with no career prospects for herself.

Of Duty, and A Path Not Ridden

Anne Elliot/Frederick Wentworth - Two years after Miss Anne Elliot declined to marry Captain Frederick Wentworth of His Majesty's Navy, an opportunity arises for the captain to renew his suit.

come as you are

Bodhi/Johnny Utah - Johnny goes to Mexico, and there's one more Ex-President.

The Ultimate Ride

Bodhi/Johnny Utah - Even reeling from the shock that Johnny jumped out of the plane without a parachute to tackle him mid-air and point a gun at his head, Bodhi has never felt more connected to anyone.

Because Bodhi’s been chasing the ultimate ride his whole life and one look into Johnny’s eyes as they fall to earth together makes it crystal clear that Johnny is already there.

Constellations of the fall

Oralech/Volfred Sandalwood, Volfred Sandalwood/Tariq - Terrible starlight shines on Oralech as he lays dying on the northern slopes of Mount Alodiel. The same truth hangs over Volfred and Tariq, who are left to mourn. All they have is their memories and the warm embrace of failure.

A Smudge of Red

Daniel Le Domas/Grace Le Domas - "Funny story. Not really. But. Yeah. We were all adopted, Alex and Emilie and me, but I guess the old folks thought—rightly so—that baby me couldn't exactly play, uh, any board game. But Alex and Emilie were toddlers when their papers came through and they joined the family, so they did it, and I hadn't blown up yet by then, so. Yeah. Got left out of that one. A lot of goat sacrifices, though. To make up for it. Not fun. But, hey, I'm still in one piece. I guess."

"Great," is about all she can come up with. "I'm being asked some awkward questions, but glad I can blame it on your all being adopted and not on demons or whatever the fuck."

"Ah. The proper authorities." He grimaces."And hospital personnel, yeah." Her chair creaks. It's uncomfortable and noisy, and not making this conversation any easier.

all you are

Helena Eagan & Helly R. - In a dream, Helly meets Helena.

r/severed

gen - Welcome to r/severed! This is a subreddit to discuss the experience of severance and provide advice and support to fellow severed people (and friends and family).

Dear and Beloved

Tang Fan/Wang Zhi - Wang Zhi and Tang Fan are a lot more candid in their letters to each other than they are in person. One thing leads to another, until they have no choice but to admit what they really want.

i genuinely love to hear your thoughts

Mr. Nobody | Man Inside Transistor/Red - Red’s cheeks feel warmer than before. She’s never shared unfinished material with anybody—not even Sybil. She’d always thought it would cast a curse, doom the song to die before its first breath. If it dies, she thinks in the quiet of her lonely apartment, then let it be with him.

The Dust They Leave Behind

Jeb Pyre/Bill Taba - When to move on, and what to take with you.

[whaaaaales]

See, this wasn't my experience with Anne at all. Like yes, a lot of these things can be read this way, but to me, Anne just stopped living. She gives herself very little room to have agency, almost in punishment for having ruined her one chance at happiness. She hurts so deeply in having been persuaded to turn down Wentworth to find some hypothetical better suitor (that never came) that she allows herself to be downtrodden by the situation she finds herself in as consequence. A lot of the book doesn't give s shit about Anne because Anne doesn't give a shit about herself. She is an unreliable narrator throughout the story, and it's not until she finds herself around people that care about her that she can truly come out of her shell and start living.

To expand on that, while I think she and Wentworth would have been happy enough if they had been married earlier, I think going against her family would have really weighed on younger Anne's happiness and led her to the same situation. And Wentworth obviously would not have gone to sea and become Captain Wentworth and have a fortune to support them with. I think the beauty of the story is that they both suffer and then grow as people before finally coming back together as improved, more sure versions of themselves, able to be truly happy together.

I'm about 100 pages into Persuasion and it's kind of a weird reading experience. I think in a bad way? I mean Jane Austen can't really not be entertaining so I'm still enjoying it but, so far Anne seems like the most weakly written of the Austen protagonists. One of her major traits is that no one wants to talk to her, which is fine but it means she gets less dialogue than basically every other character including pretty minor ones; I really don't have a sense of this girl's voice at all, and Austen characters are really a lot about the voice usually so it's a very noticeable lack! But then her inner life doesn't seem that rich either, her thoughts seem to entirely consist of 1) anxiety and embarrassment around Wentworth, and since that's the main plot it's kind of obligatory, and 2) internally rolling her eyes at her silly relatives making fools of themselves, which isn't exactly endearing but more to the point it's not all that revealing of her character, it feels like she exists largely to be a straight man to the others. Like she's clearly the protagonist but the book doesn't seem to give much of a shit about her...?

Especially coming to this quite soon after reading Emma the contrast in this regard is super jarring...

[tercessketchfield]

Marianne Dashwood is an amazing character, and we need to stop being ashamed of appreciating her.

We need to stop over-judging her for falling in love with not-so-very-worthy man; and, again, cease dismissing her for marrying a man she never really liked (but finally came to quite suddenly), just because the plotline required the worthy Colonel Brandon to be (at last!) rewarded with mutual love. And because Marianne had to marry someone. Yes, needless to say, they both deserved better than that.  We need also stop comparing Marianne with the always wise and patient Elinor, just because the latter is our love at first sight, for she from the first seems the character one wants to resemble. While Elinor is generally right and reasonable, Marianne is, from the start, too eccentric to follow as a role model. 

All in all, I think, it is a romantic plotline which makes the worst impact on our perception of Marianne, and which is, at the same time, the easiest thing to attract our attention. On the surface she might seem a silly, hysterical and rather selfish person who first feels, and then does, and only then thinks; who is easy to get into trouble, and who makes other, infinitely more deserving characters, look after her and endure trouble for her and instead of her. But it is only on surface. Austen balances this impression with many deserving, humane, intersting, and original qualities of Marianne's in the way which many authors before and after her failed to do. That is, by the way, why the above description (at least in my opinion) is very much a portrait of an average heroine of a victorian novel. 

In my opinion, Sense and Sensibility is very underrated novel, and one may even dismiss it as an unsuccessful first work, as it brings in somewhat frustrating love story for the main characters (when it comes to Marianne and Brandon, it is veeery questionable love story imo). I agree with this, as S&S stands nowhere near in the terms of fascinating Austen’s love stories with those of Elizabeth/Mr Darcy, Emma/Mr Knightley, or even Anne/ Wentworth. Yet, even if S&S generally fails with romantic storyline, it shows, nevertheless, how important it is to depict a really interesting character (that is Marianne, of course)) independently on any love story in the novel. Pardon me, but Elinor and Edward are boring as a couple, and if we had, for intrigue, originality and pleasure of reading, to rely on them alone, this novel would indeed have been a failure. It would not have been Jane Austen we all love, after all.

But, happily, considering these things, we can put romance aside. As a result, Marianne emerges as a strong and interesting character in her own right, and here are some reasons why: 

She has her own opinion and is not afraid to speak her mind. She is sincere, even to a fault, and does not care about formalities. 

“is this fair? is this just? are my ideas so scanty? But I see what you mean. I have been too much at my ease, too happy, too frank. I have erred against every common-place notion of decorum; I have been open and sincere where I ought to have been reserved, spiritless, dull, and deceitful”

“I detest jargon of every kind, and sometimes I have kept my feelings to myself, because I could find no language to describe them in but what was worn and hackneyed out of all sense and meaning”

“Marianne was silent; it was impossible for her to say what she did not feel, however trivial the occasion; and upon Elinor therefore the whole task of telling lies when politeness required it, always fell.”

“ ‘I shall go to the piano-forte; I have not touched it since it was tuned.’ And without farther ceremony, she turned away and walked to the instrument. Lady Middleton looked as if she thanked heaven that SHE had never made so rude a speech.”

“Marianne, when called on for her’s, offended them all, by declaring that she had no opinion to give, as she had never thought about it.”

It is admirable how, in times where every step should go by the book, Marianne, with her keen sense of justice, gladly and gracefully throws formalities of etiquette away as soon as she feels they might even mildly inconvenience her freedom or her sense of truth. She is a misfit, in some sense, and she prides herself on it. And though such behavior is not always advisable (and indeed sometimes does much harm to herself and her beloved family), in Marianne’s performance it is at least fun, if not amiable. To a modern reader, it is hard to fail to catch the comedy of it all, given what was acceptable two centuries back, and Austen’s creating a very modern-behaving heroine even then. Austen tricks very wittily with the contrast, or rather, striking difference between Elinor’s and Marianne’s social behavior. It is because of Elinor’s patience and Marianne’s impatience that they complement each other so brilliantly. It is because of Marianne’s laziness or obstinacy (or egotism if you like) that we say “Poor Elinor is made to say polite lies to save face of them both”. But it is thanks to Marianne’s obstinacy and nonconformity that Elinor is, e.g., enabled to carry out an important secret conversation with Lucy unheard by the others – Marianne is too incivil to do what she does not want to and, instead, luckily, shelters Elinor and Lucy with her “magnificent concerto”.

She is genuinely devoted to and fiercely protective of her sister. 

“Marianne could not bear this.— She was already greatly displeased with Mrs. Ferrars; and such ill-timed praise of another, at Elinor’s expense, though she had not any notion of what was principally meant by it, provoked her immediately to say with warmth, ‘This is admiration of a very particular kind!— what is Miss Morton to us?—who knows, or who cares, for her?— it is Elinor of whom WE think and speak.’ And so saying, she took the screens out of her sisterin-law’s hands, to admire them herself as they ought to be admired.”

“Marianne’s feelings did not stop here. The cold insolence of Mrs. Ferrars’s general behaviour to her sister, seemed, to her, to foretell such difficulties and distresses to Elinor, as her own wounded heart taught her to think of with horror; and urged by a strong impulse of affectionate sensibility, she moved after a moment, to her sister’s chair, and putting one arm round her neck, and one cheek close to hers, said in a low, but eager, voice,’Dear, dear Elinor, don’t mind them. Don’t let them make you unhappy.’ “

For me, Marianne and Elinor are the best example of sisterly love in literature, leaving even Elizabeth and Jane from P&P behind. Though Marianne is real troublemaker, especially to  Elinor (though the latter would not own it), it is hard to hate her, especially in the view of their devoted sisterly love. How she protected Elinor’s talents against Mrs Ferrars’s and Fanny’s subtle insults; how amusingly she struggled to keep Elinor and Edward together during his visit, while despising Lucy outright for her burdensome presence. Though her active support is sometimes a false start, it cannot be denied that her intentions are too good and actions too sincere to be really severely judged. Marianne is definitely too absorbed with her own thoughts and sometimes too socially awkward (we can all relate to that, I think) to notice what will be more appropriate to her more reserved sister, but it cannot be denied that she y wishes Elinor the best happiness she deserves. When Marianne is too self-centred during Wickham’s courtship and her illness, she comes to realise her mistakes and later makes amends for it with warm sisterly affection towards Elinor.

She has her faults, but there are already makings of a “ faultless in spite of all her faults”.  

Plainly speaking, can a character be interesting without faults? Or can it be a human? Marianne has those faults in plenty. But, her character, though not conventionally in the right, is strong and charismatic, and it brings some sparking originality and fair share of fun into what otherwise is very sober and rather gloomy environment.

She learns. 

“I cannot express my own abhorrence of myself. Whenever I looked towards the past, I saw some duty neglected, or some failing indulged. Every body seemed injured by me.”

One of the things I like so much about Marianne is that she goes through real and clear character development. Though she is very opinionated and sticks to her principles with spirit, she is not ungenerous or obdurate. Yes, her ideas (at first at least) may seem, to a modern reader, wild, overly romantic, maximalist and unrealistic, but it is small wonder considering the amount of romantic (and yes, overly romantic) literature she was consuming. But again, she was but sixteen at the start. Yes, she might be teasing and even mocking Elinor’s and Brandon’s reserve and sobriety at first, but it hardly out of any real malice. After all, most of her life experience was built on books, not all heavy realistic, and she did not then yet learn to question the practicality of theoretic notions, printed in romantic books. And when she finally did learn, after suffering, there was repentance, and sincerity, and wish to improve incarnate. Marianne is able to own her every fault and is most eager to put things right. Again, it was so amusing to read of her plans of improvements, which were only little less maximalist than her original ideas, and only little more realistic to carry out, considering her temper. But there was sincerity in it. And ability to recognize one’s faults as faults and to know what exactly should be done to set things right deserves respect. I would even say that one likes Marianne in the end because one did not like her so much (or not at all) at first – and it takes a really good charater and a masterful writer to produce such an admirable metamorphose.

Finally, she is a bookworm :) This does not require explanation, does it?;) 

“Marianne, who had the knack of finding her way in every house to the library, however it might be avoided by the family in general, soon procured herself a book.”

Conclusion? I believe there must be some, so let it be this: Marianne Dashwood is the best asset of Sense and Sensibility; and if anyone was (like me, to some extent) disappointed with the love story, one may safely let it go at that, and regard this novel as wonderful story of character development and remarkable sisterly affection.

[night-unfurls-its-splendour]

NETFLIX PERSUASION LIVE REACTION

Okay, so far not so bad

*Anne drinks wine from the bottle, "single and thriving*... nevermind.

I say, What an oddly proportioned bed!

This is a lovely room... for, say a cottage.

Isn't the point of Anne that she doesn't have any hope of Wentworth? Isn't that what this whole thing is about?

Wait I'm sorry I didn't see what Mrs clay was saying there I was busy staring at her... wayward figure

Anne did you wake up in a daze that your put your blouse on the OUTSIDE of your dress?

I like these Crofts.

I wouldn't even mind the fourth wall breaking, if this dialogue was anything Anne Elliot would ever say.

Is that a shift?

If this was TRYING to be Tumblr Dialogue absurdist Jane Austen I would LOVE the empath line, but it's not trying to be that so I can't.

I'm struggling because I hate this scene of her with the wine bottle at the window but she's wearing a shift under those stays and that butters many parsnips for me.

Your hair is also suitability... appropriate *her hair looks like she just rolled out of bed*

That is... too big to be Uppercross Grange. This is as bad as the House Inflation in Emma.

Could we have cast someone [as Wentworth] who actually has a jaw please? Just once?

Oh look a brief glimpse of actual dialogue!

"Charles wanted to marry me first!" WHO IS THIS WINE AUNT?

Hilarious that Charles hasn't even like talked to Anne in this version?

I need to roll that back, because I must not have any occasion to miss this terrible dialogue -- my sister

*laughing at the blackbeard line*

This is not dance music

Wow do you have enough mascara on?

Oh I see she finally decided to put her hair up

Self-care! The words "self-care" just... *pounds chair arm* CAPPUCCINO! --my sister (fun-fact, the cappuccinos we know today were first known to exist IN ITALY, in the 1930's)

The height difference between Mary and Charles here is about the difference between Alice and Jasper in the Twilight books

This guy would make a better Edward Ferrars

Shifts but no bonnets...

The location cards on this movie out here in your face like the new covers for the Twilight books

What is with them and casting my sisters babies as Harvill? First Joseph Mawle now Edward Bluemel

Take a drink every time Anne takes a drink

Can we stop casting musicians as Austen heros?

"You've never had trouble speaking for yourself." Ummm

Ah yes schmoozing, prostrating oneself before the superiority of woman, very attractive

The only thing Henry Golding would be good for in my estimation is playing Sulu by that ship has sailed. He's too mustache twirly for anything else

I want Anne's green redingote

I just wanna say "hes a ten--I never trust a ten" has the same flavor as "my mother's oft repeated warning echoes in my ears: never trust a man who can dance" from Fifty Shades of Grey. Even if that line wasn't in the movie the association is enough to make me cackle like a fish wife.

I love how Anne always has a hangover in the morning

Richard E. Grant is just such a perfect Sir Walter

Okay for what this is, Dakota Johnson is actually doing a fine job

This is one of those Period dramas where all the awful characters are dressed impeccably well in things that you want to wear SO BADLY and the character you're supposed to "relate to" is dressed like a slovenly peasant, because the people making the film think that tasteful and intricate clothing is bougie and ostentatious. Like bitch you don't understand what ostentatious was in 1816.

The Octopussy speech... I... *downs whole glass of dry Vermouth*

Bitch what quiet dignity? You put jam on your lip!

I like everything about this version except for the leads, her costumes and the dialogue

He just does not cut a fine figure in his uniform. He's not dashing.

Is this concert in the daytime????

THOSE GLOVES ARE FISHNET

Why does that dress not fit

Put a feather in her hair and she'd look like a whore

Here we've all been bemoaning Dakota Johnson when the worst thing about this adaptation is what they've done to Wentworth.

I'm changing it from taking a drink every time Anne does to "every time Anne is a total wino"

Edward Bluemel is such a wonderful Harvill.

"The Universe" is invoked so many times here because we're allergic to religion

Bath Marathon? BATH MARATHON!

Guys the problem is I'm not moved at all. I feel nothing. At all.

What is this music?

Oh look a wedding! That's different

Why is Mr Elliot even in this version?

If he was a better Wentworth I would be really enjoying this wedding day sextant scene

My sister: *slurring because we've had a lot of prosecco* did she just wink.

Afterthoughts

Not Enough of the crofts

I'm VERY dissapointed that this petty bitch wino version of Anne didn't get to go off about Dick Musgrove. Which just proves that this is an adaptation of the Cliff Notes and not the actual book.

[amarguerite]

Pov please 👀👀👀?

POV — something that’s already happened, retold from another character’s perspective

From the skating AU of Persuasion:

"You're in a good mood," Anne observed, as they waited in the hotel lobby for their shuttle to the airport. "You haven't stopped smiling since gala rehearsals."

"To be fair, Jamie smiles a lot," said Lizzy.

Jamie bit the insides of his lips. It was so hard not spoiling the surprise, given the months and months of text messages that could all be boiled down to:

Anne: Frederick just said I was pretty/ looked cute in my school uniform/ carried my skate bag/ declared absolute fealty to me and swore he would ride into battle wearing my colors, do u think he might like me back??

Jamie: I have no idea.

Anne: Now he's done something else ridiculously dreamy!!! I have SUCH A CRUSH

"He's just a smiley guy," said Lizzy. She elbowed Jamie in the side and looked pointedly at where Frederick, his toque pulled down low over his forehead, was standing behind Anne, texting something to his parents.

"Just... great to see you in person again," said Jamie. "You have to promise me you'll text me as soon as you're back in Montreal. I mean not immediately--" even someone as direct and as determined as Frederick Wentworth would probably have to wait a day or two to get everything together, or at least have to wait until it was snowing-- which reminded him! "And send me a pic next time it's snowing! I can't believe it snows more where you live than where we live."

Anne did him one better, and sent a selfie of Frederick kissing her cheek. Behind them was-- "Lizzy, help, how do I zoom in on this again?"

"How do you not know how to zoom in on a photo nii-san?" Lizzy complained. "You're worse than mom, I swear." But she got up and helped him zoom in enough to realize that Anne and Frederick were at a rink, and it was snowing, before she made a face at him. "I hope you're not going over all, like... prophetic on me. I legit do not want to get married."

"Not now, you mean." Jamie leaned his elbow on his desk and his chin on his hand, feeling so pleased and so happy for Anne-- and maybe, just the littlest, tiniest bit sad for himself. As complicated as it might be to start dating your pairs partner, at least that was really common. Everyone in pairs or ice dancing (except for sibling teams like him and Lizzy) tended so sell some romantic story on ice, and that fiction seemed to lead to the real thing so often. Jamie never wanted any other partner than Lizzy, who voiced all his disagreements for him, and understood exactly how to explain she wanted something done differently without setting him off in a spiral of worry about how terrible he was, and covered for him so much when he was too anxious to speak or learn anything. As much as he liked the girly romantic animes he and Lizzy pretended they watched because Lizzy liked them (she didn't; she endured them), and as much as he enjoyed watching all the other ice dancers cut romantically across the ice, he would shrivel up and die, right there on the ice, with everyone watching him, if he had to skate a romantic program with anyone. Even if (especially if?) he was skating with a cute guy.

Lizzy bumped his shoulder with her own. "Hey nii-san. You'll be swept off your feet too someday."

"Oh no, I wasn't--" He clicked out of the photo, mortified to think Lizzy thought he was jealous of his best friend, the nicest person in the world.

"I know you weren't," said Lizzy. "I have also been visited by the gift of prophesy." She dramatically put her hand to her forehead. "I see... a man in your future. Not tall and dark, but very handsome and super friendly, who won't make you talk at parties and will buy you roses every day as well as three dogs--"

"Three!"

Lizzy nodded solemnly. "Your three favorites. A ChowChow, a golden retriever, and a Newfoundland."

"No one is going to buy me three dogs," said Jamie, both delighted and embarrassed by this vision of his future.

"Of course not," said Lizzy. "Your Prince Charming will want to adopt because he'll be as nice as you."

[seeker-ophelia]

But wait there's more.

Forewarned,

#Long Post, and also a (bad) Literary Analysis by an Electrician.

Okay, I've been in angst for so long I re-watched a much of older Jane Austin moves on Netflix and... you guys... they're all solavellan.

Solas & Predjudice

A slew of miscommunications and “prejudices” cause a kerfuffle for the Bennet family. The main couple, Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy, eventually find love after throwing away their pride, and the prejudices they heard about the other from untrustworthy sources. All of the attraction between the two is conveyed without them touching, halted broken voices, the infamous “hand,” etc.

Austen is thought to have taken her title from a passage in Fanny Burney's Cecilia (1782), a novel she is known to have admired: "The whole of this unfortunate business," said Dr Lyster, "has been the result of PRIDE and PREJUDICE. ... if to PRIDE and PREJUDICE you owe your miseries, so wonderfully is good and evil balanced, that to PRIDE and PREJUDICE you will also owe their termination."

The American novelist Anna Quindlen observed in an introduction to an edition of Austen's novel in 1995: Pride and Prejudice is also about that thing that all great novels consider, the search for self. And it is the first great novel that teaches us this search is as surely undertaken in the drawing room making small talk  (hello, DragonAge Dialogue) as in the pursuit of a great white whale...

Next is Jane Eyre, in which the male Protag, Edward, might be the best comparison to Solas I can imagine.

Jane (well spoken, soft, witty, good, kind) falls in love with a loner but rich landowner (Edward). There is something fishy about him tho, we are led to believe there's something dangerous/off about him, if he is housing a demon/animal, or is in fact a demon himself. They attempt to marry, but the ceremony is stopped. Its discovered "the demon" is his wife, a mentally unstable woman who Edward married to save. He literally calls her “My own demon.” He wants to protect this deranged woman (out of duty? misplaced duty?) but loves Jane deeply. Jane runs away, makes a life for herself, feel guilt, then goes back to him to find his house burned, the woman dead, and Edward blind. They kiss, you assume happy ending.

Edward thought to protect Jane by NOT FUCKING TALKING TO HER Bro like come on what are you even... like you should have fucking told her. Gods damn it Solas Edward just use your outdoor voice and talk to the pretty lady.

They do end up together, but only after Edward has gone through great physical and emotional strife, pretty much of his own doing, I think we can all agree.

And I'd be remis to not talk about Persuasion, because the scene is set so perfectly for Veilguard.

In Persuasion, the book starts up several years after protag Anne breaks off her Engagement with Love Interest (TM) Captain Frederick Wentworth.

Once AGAIN, through NOT FUCKING TALKING TO EACH OTHER, they think the other has moved on, and they try not to intrude on the others life. But (in the movie), Wentworth writes her a beautiful confession letter, which I will put here with some *minor* modifications:

Dearest Inquisitor Levellan, I can listen no longer in silence. Vhenan, you pierce my soul. Dare not say that man forgets sooner than woman, that his love has an earlier death. I am half agony, half hope. I know too much time has passed, and you have moved on, but I will never forgive myself if I do not tell you this. You alone have brought me to heel. For you alone, I think and plan. But of course, you have not seen this, how could you? Because your love has not lasted as long as mine. Vhenan, I have loved no one but you and I don’t think I ever will. I have thought many times about how to tell you this. But the pain of a love unrequited (except for Soals it’s the pain of perceived duty/guilt) rendered me silent.  Tell me not that I am too late. My love for you has never faltered. Yours, eternal, Solas Fen’Harel What is even your real name just tell me cuz its NOT FUCKING WISDOM YOU DUMB EGG

Solas is so ANCIENT, and GDL voices him SO WELL, with that welsh-tinge, its so hard NOT to put this love story in with the romance classics. Especially with the main theme being JUST TALK TO EACH OTHER YOU FUCKING IDIOTS.

I am just hoping and praying and huffing that copium that we get a happy ending, and not a sad one.

Or even better, through our interactions with Solas' memories, that we get to choose.

remember recent posts about that scene?

it was mostly about a solavellan reunion

it suddenly hit me and unblocked a bonus fear: solavellan ending just like in the movie/book. like a bit melancholic yet happy ending in which love wins and future seems much brighter than before and... then you found out it isn't real, it's just a story told by someone else as a try to make things right for them and bring a happiness because they deserved it even if the reality was never kind to them.

Varric, a storyteller, if you will try to make this Atonement thing to me, I will find you and I will kill you.

Movie: "Atonement", 2007

Book: "Atonement", Ian McEwan, 2001

[talesofafangirlwithadvr]

Persuasion Deserves More

I love Jane Austen’s final novel Persuasion. It is my second favorite alongside Pride and Prejudice. It never gets adapted enough. However, it is not Pride and Prejudice or any of Austen’s other works. So why was the latest Netflix adaptation trying to make it something else? 

Right away the aesthetic of this adaptation reminded me of Emma (2020), which is one of my favorite Emma adaptations btw. This was mainly because of all its bright colors. I didn’t realize it was going to take on so many similar aspects to that film. 

Read on for more of my opinion on the new film. Spoilers below!

Let’s start with ANNE ELLIOT

Anne Elliot is the oldest of Austen’s heroines and is one of the quietest. She is very passive. Helping out her family who takes advantage of her and you can see her struggle to stay with them. There is no snark or look to camera. Her feelings are all buried inside and her longing and yearning for Wentworth is not told. Okay, so you can already hear some of my complains about this version. 

Suddenly Anne is witty with come backs. She feels both like Elizabeth Bennet and Emma Woodhouse this way. It also reminded me of Jane Austen’s character in the film Becoming Jane who takes on similar qualities. I HATED the direct address. It was not needed. I know many people compared it to the series Fleabag but as I don’t watch it I instantly thought of Patricia Rozema’s 1999 adaptation of Mansfield Park that does something similar. I did not enjoy that choice either. While the 2007 miniseries adaptation of Persuasion does not have direct address it does have Anne looking to camera at big emotional moments and I was not a fan of that either. 

With the direct address it was awkward because we were told SO MUCH rather than shown. We could understand Sir Walter and Elizabeth were vain by observing them. Same goes for Mary with her hypochondria. Anne didn’t need to tell us these things.  

Speaking of the SIDE CHARACTERS

(I can’t stop comparing this picture to this one from the 2005 Pride and Prejudice)

But moving on from that...

So, I know it’s mainly been negative so far, but I have to say that I enjoyed a lot of the side characters. I thought each of the Elliots (besides Anne) were casted and portrayed really well. Mary was definitely one of my favorites, which I was expecting because she usually is. Henry Goulding’s version of Mr. Elliot actually made me dislike him clearly showing his superior acting. I thought I’d love his character in this version because of the actor playing him. Well done, sir.  

I also LOVED the diversity in the cast. Ever since Bridgerton this seems to be happening more often and should continue to do so.   

I did have a problem with Louisa’s portrayal. I thought it was out of character for her to push Anne and Wentworth so much together. In the book and past adaptations she is oblivious to Anne’s affections towards him. Instead her and Henrietta are ‘fighting’ over him. While I liked not seeing the sisters in competition I didn’t love Louisa’s involvement in setting up Anne. Usually she is seen as an older maid-type that wouldn’t be looking to marry.

Anne and CAPTAIN FREDERICK WENTWORTH 

Captain Wentworth is one of my top Austen heroes. This should not come as a shock seeing as how much I love the novel. 

I also blame this Wentworth for fueling this...

Rupert Penry-Jones Persuasion (2007)

I feel like we didn’t get enough of the ‘secretly pining but avoiding Anne’ Wentworth. In the Netflix adaptation we see Anne and Wentworth speak to each other a lot earlier than in the book. Then there’s that awkward ‘let’s be friends’ scene at the beach. That was extremely weird and not at all accurate to their relationship. There was a few pining glances (mainly from Wentworth) but due to the expository info dumps they didn’t feel as powerful as they could have been without it. Again, I know I’m biased to the 2007 adaptation (but if I’m remembering correctly I think the book has a few of these moments too), but I wanted to see a little more into Wentworth’s side of things. Also, we should have gotten his narration of the letter so much sooner compared to just when Anne was running to him. In the end, I didn’t feel much chemistry between one of my favorite Austen couples, which was a shame. 

Lastly, I still don’t understand the significance of THE RABBIT. 

I heard a rumor that this director may be adapting more of Austen’s work. I seriously hope that is not the case. In the meantime I will continue to mourn that we will no longer get the theatrical Persuasion adaptation. 

[bethanydelleman]

People who want female characters to cry less? No. Stop it. You're doing it the wrong way. Make male characters cry. Make those beautiful men sob on their knees. Down with all this stupid emotional constipation! Here, I can fix it:

Colonel Brandon after he tells Elinor about his lost love Eliza? Stumbles out of the room, finds somewhere private, and bawls. Edward after leaving Barton Cottage thinking he'll never be able to marry Elinor? Make him weep! Mr. Knightley was glad it was raining when he rode back to Hartfield after learning about Frank's engagement because it gave his tears plausible deniability! Wentworth thinks Anne will marry her cousin? Sobbing mess of a man. Bingley can cry during the proposal when he thinks about all the time he lost not being with Jane. Edmund cries alone in his room after Mary calls clergymen "nothing". Henry Tilney cries without realizing it when Catherine accepts his proposal because he's so glad that no one is angry with him and confronting his father was way more emotionally taxing than he let himself acknowledge at the time. Henry Crawford feeling wretched and alone after the affair and sobbing into his hands. Show us post wedding and make Darcy cry after the birth of his first child.

Make them cry! MAKE THEM ALL CRY

[outoftowninac]

COQUETTE

1927

“Coquette” is a three-act play written by George Abbott and Ann Preston, directed by Mr. Abbott, and produced by Jed Harris and Lee Shubert. 

CAST

Frederick Burton as Mr. Wentworth

Elliot Cabot as Michael Jeffrey

Frank Dae as Ed Forsythe

Helen Hayes as Norma Besant

Andrew Lawlor, Jr. as Jimmie Besant

Una Merkel as Betty Lee Reynolds

Abbie Mitchell as Julia 

Gaylord Pendleton as Joe Reynolds

G. Albert Smith as Stanley Wentworth

Phyllis Tyler as Ethel Thompkins

Charles Waldron as Dr. Besant

STORY

Norma Besant, a heartless belle of a southern town, falls in love with Michael Jeffrey, a crude and prideful mountaineer. Her father, a physician, is so displeased that he refuses to allow them to marry, orders Jeffrey out of his house, and, half-crazed, shoots and kills Jeffrey to preserve his family's good name. While he is awaiting his trial Besant commits suicide in a final effort to atone to his daughter for her unhappiness.

Before becoming a hit on Broadway, “Coquette” stopped in Atlantic City for one week commencing October 10, 1927.  This was not Hayes’ first time at the Apollo in Atlantic City. She had appeared there in “Clarence” and “The Golden Age” in 1919. 

The Apollo’s front door was located on South New York Avenue but the side was along the world-famous Boardwalk. It eventually was converted to a movie theatre and was demolished in the 1970’s.

After leaving Atlantic City, “Coquette” went to Philadelphia before making one more New Jersey pitstop before arriving on the Great White Way, in Newark. This was a last minute booking because their Broadway home was not available until November 7th as originally planned.   

Hayes had a major career breakthrough with “Coquette.” This tragedy showcased her ability to handle serious dramatic material.

The production opened November 8th, 1927 at Maxine Elliott's Theatre in New York City and ran for 366 performances. Lee Shubert sold actress Maxine Elliott the land for this theatre in exchange for fifty-percent interest in it -- making Elliott one of the only female managers. In 1956, Elliott's heirs sold her share to the Shuberts, who then sold the property. When it was demolished in 1960 it was the only Broadway house below 41st St.

While pregnant with her daughter, Mary MacArthur, Helen was starring in “Coquette” on Broadway. Helen became sick and had to leave the show, forcing it to close. Rather than pay-off the acting company, the producer tried to claim that Helen's pregnancy was an "Act of God" so that he was not liable. He eventually did have to cough up the money to pay the actors, but Mary was tagged as the "Act of God" baby. 

After closing on Broadway, Hayes also toured with the play, stopping in such cities as... 

The Bronx...

and back to Philadelphia, where it had an out-of-town tryout. 

The play was filmed in 1929 by director Sam Taylor, but without Hayes, who was thought to be a stage actress, not photogenic. She was replaced by Mary Pickford (in her first talkie) who won an Oscar for the role. Not to be undone, Hayes made her feature film debut in 1931 and won an Oscar for her performance in “The Sin of Madame Claudet”. 

“Coquette” was remade for television in 1955. That same year Hayes returned to Atlantic City, at least on stage, in Thornton Wilder’s “The Skin of Our Teeth” which is set on the Boardwalk in Atlantic City. 

[dearestpartnerofgreatness]

25 + 26 for shipping ask!

25. What are your favorite ships from a dead fandom?

Sheila/Joel and Abby/Eric from Santa Clarita Diet and Daisuke/Riku from D.N.Angel (but I think that one’s kinda revived). 

26. What are your favorite shipping scenes?

Oh man I have so many and I'm probably forgetting some but here goes 

For Maiko (ATLA), the moment in “The Boiling Rock pt II” when they’re looking at each other through the door and their eyes are full of emotion

Bingley’s proposal to Jane in the 2005 Pride & Prejudice  

Wentworth’s letter to Anne (Persuasion)

The final kiss scene between Aang & Katara in the ATLA finale!!! Also the first time she pulls him out of the Avatar state because COMFORT

Ashitaka hugging San after she stabs him with her necklace (Princess Mononoke)

When Miles tells Iris he ��only used the good notes” (The Holiday)

Qingqing and Situ Feng’s mall + movie date in disguise (Accidentally in Love) because the whole sequence is gold 

Hee Jae telling Geum Ja that his heart is his to handle (Hyena)

That ICONIC rain kiss from Murphy’s Law of Love 

When Qiang Wei & Qiang Da officially get together on the bridge and they’re hugging and being all cute (Lion Pride)

Patrick singing “Simply the Best” at the open mic (Schitt’s Creek)

The exchange between Gu Weiyi and Situ Mo when she realizes she didn’t buy gum + the balloons kiss (Put Your Head on My Shoulder)

Tamaki comforting Haruhi when she’s scared of thunder + falling into the lake in the finale (OHSHC)

Wyallie snuggles in the hotel and when Callie comforts Wyatt about the house (The Fosters)

Bu Fan telling Si De he wants to be by her side and tossing aside his umbrella to hug her (Lion Pride)

The “Next Stop Anywhere” montage for Rapunzel & Eugene (Tangled Adventures) + when he calls her “darlin’” in the episode at the Dark Kingdom

When Nino sacrifices himself so he doesn’t have to leave zombified!Alya behind in the “Zom-bisou” episode of Miraculous Ladybug 

When Dolls recites Wynonna’s Chinese order from memory and when he first sees her in her fancy party dress (Wynonna Earp)

That montage in the hotel hallway after Ya Nuo & Du Zifeng get married--iykyk (Bromance) 

[hollygoeslightly]

1. I couldn't help but find Sydney's actions at the end to be very deceitful. As much as it's framed as a tragic choice where he comes out a bruised victim unintentionally hurting Charlotte, I feel that his choice is quite like Ms Champion's and he and the audience cannot actually claim that the exact same thing is any better than her cruel choice years ago. They both left their betrothed for money and we have no idea whether her circumstances were dire or not, yet she was painted as a villain.

2. And as much as I fell in love with Charlotte and Sydney, Sydney's actions at the end when it came to his treatment of her, were deplorable. Even Lord Babbington didn't kiss nor touch Ester in that society until he proposed, even when it seemed a sure thing. He respected her dignity in society and understood what it meant to take advantage of a woman before truly providing for her or making a promise. Thus when they finally kissed, it was celebratory.

3. I had a feeling when Sydney kissed Charlotte before asking for her hand, in a sense rewarding the audience prematurely, that it wouldn't happen. Simply because in that society and context, he knowingly skipped the steps of honoring a woman rightfully rather than using her. He made no promises before they kissed. He didn't propose. Also, speaking to Charlotte about marriage is too important to delay for a week later. The fact that he didn't spare a minute to finish their convo spoke ill.

4. All of these little things at the end of the season, the last episode, left a bad taste in my mouth and gave me the sense that it would end badly. Because as much as we know that Sydney loves Charlotte dearly, his actions were irresponsible and spoke otherwise. Even with money, there are many possibilities for something to come through. You don't barter with a person though, risk hurting someone you love especially after promising them a life, or leading them.The irresponsibility is likeOtis!

5. I know that in that society, Sydney is smart enough to know how much his actions would have consequences on a vulnerable young woman who doesn't even have money to her name. He knows that it's important to have promised marriage before touching her. He knows that making such a promise, he mustn't break it, because she will make arrangements pertaining to her entire life and wellbeing, resting on him. He's also experienced the same vile taste of that happening to him! What do you think?

6. Also just to be clear, I don't want to demand anything of you and I don't want to be negative. I love your meta and I put weight on your interpretations which is why I'm asking. I also love the character of Sydney, which is why I'm deeply disgruntled by this. Not the end, bc I saw that coming, but what the last few incidents mean for his character. I trusted that he'd understand his impact; all the parallels to scoundrels, the context of society, and the contradiction to Babbington is not good.

Hey!

Thanks for the question. I hope you don’t mind, but I’m going to break down your question into parts in order to ensure my answer will make some semblance of sense.

Real Life and Reel Life

I’ve spoken about this before, but it bears repeating as it has a significant impact on how I interpret the show – I am not an Austen purist, nor am I a stickler for complete historical accuracy when it comes to my enjoyment of a particular movie or TV show. For instance, I know some people were frustrated by the historical inaccuracy of Charlotte wearing her hair down, but Charlotte’s modern hairstyle was never something that bothered me. Everyone’s mileage varies of course, but as long as the characterisation is cohesive and interesting and the creators have managed to convey the overall spirit of the period of time the story is set, I’m happy.

It’s also worth noting that while Jane Austen was a fairly historically accurate author, her body of work had a very narrow focus – middle class and upper class families in country villages in southern England. And while her body of work is historically accurate, it’s also intentionally sanitised. Regency and Victorian England was a time of significant social, political and economic change – beneath the shiny veneer of tea rooms and good manners was an underbelly of sex, drugs and gambling.

Why am I mentioning this? Because Sanditon was Andrew Davies’ attempt at expanding Austen’s focus – placing Austen’s signature study of manners against the backdrop of a fairly chaotic period in time. Personally, I loved this aspect of the show. Not only did Davies force the audience to confront their preconceived ideas of what a typical Austen character actually is, but it allowed the characters to push against issues outside of love and marriage. Don’t get me wrong, I swoon every time Darcy helps Elizabeth into the carriage after the ball at Pemberley or Anne reads Wentworth’s letter, but it was nice to have a slightly different interpretation of Austen’s work.

Finally, I firmly believe that part of the agreement you undertake when interacting with any form of entertainment is the suspension of some degree of reality. The amount of suspension is dependent on the work of course, but even true stories require some form of suspension (e.g. the amalgamation of characters, timelines sped up) to be entertaining. In the case of Sanditon, the characters inhabit a close approximation of Regency England, but not an exact copy (e.g. Charlotte wears her hair down, clothing is not always period appropriate). This is also the case when it comes to characters breaking a few of the social conventions that Austen routinely explored. For example, while Sidney kissing Charlotte prior to proposing to her in 1x08 would have been frowned upon in the real world, in Davies’ version of Regency England, Sidney kissing Charlotte is not a poor reflection of his character nor does it indicate that he knowingly took advantage of her – it’s simply a way to drive the narrative forward and create an entertaining story. This is supported by the fact that Charlotte’s reputation remains in good standing despite spending time alone with both Sidney and Young Stringer and that Esther faces no consequences for the exposure of her romantic/abusive relationship with her brother in 1x08. So while I understand that for you, Davies’ choice to overlook certain social conventions is frustrating, I think it’s important to acknowledge that the world Sanditon presents us is not 100% historically accurate, and for the purposes of entertainment, I don’t think it can be.

Sidney, Eliza and Otis

Following the fire in the new terrace apartments in 1x08, Sidney is forced to make a choice between love and money – his love for Charlotte and his desire to save his brother (The Worst) from debtor’s prison. Sidney is faced with an impossible choice and in the end chooses to sacrifice his own happiness (I think Sidney believes that Charlotte will be able to move on and find happiness again) for the well being of Tom, Mary and the children. As you’ve pointed out, this is a direct parallel to Eliza choosing money over her love of Sidney. However, I don’t think it’s accurate to claim that both decisions are equal in cruelty – doing so removes all nuance from the situation.

While I understand why some members of the fandom believe that Eliza could have had a valid reason for choosing money over love, I don’t believe the narrative supports that argument (whether this would have changed in S2, I’m not sure). Eliza is described by Tom (1x06) and Arthur (1x07) as intentionally betraying Sidney’s trust, choosing the safety of wealth over love.

Arthur – “Do you know, for years all I knew about my brother, Sidney, was that he was driven to the West Indies with a broken heart.”

Sidney – “And what’s your point Arthur?”

Arthur – “I admire your spirit of forgiveness that is all. If it were me, I do not think I could bring myself to trust her again.”

Arthur speaks of a betrayal of trust that he does not believe he could ever get past, a betrayal he is surprised that his own brother is willing to forgive. The reason Sidney is so damaged by Eliza’s betrayal is not because she was forced by circumstance to marry for money (if that was the case, it would be presented as two lovers torn apart by outside influences e.g. Sidney and Charlotte), but because by choosing to marry for money, she publically declared that Sidney was not enough. The love and future he could offer her was not enough. Eliza’s choice is so cruel, because her decision is so mercenary in nature – it’s a decision made out of choice, not necessity. She made the decision knowing what it would cost and she deemed that cost (Sidney’s self-worth) worthwhile.

This is also the case when it comes to Otis’ treatment of Georgiana. Otis made an active choice to barter with Georgiana’s name in order to extend credit for his gambling debts. He had multiple options available to him, number one being to stop gambling, but he made a decision where he would benefit and Georgiana would be placed at risk. On the other hand, the audience is made aware that Sidney is forced into a position where there are no right choices. Regardless of the decision he makes, someone will be hurt. He is the only one in the position to find the money to keep his brother out of debtor’s prison and as a result, Tom’s failure to insure Sanditon costs Sidney his future with Charlotte. Intention matters. Yes, all decisions lead to people being hurt, but Sidney is the only one who also suffers as a result of the decision he made.

While I understand the audience was upset by Sidney’s decision (I didn’t like it either), I also think an ending where Sidney and Charlotte marry while Tom is sent to debtor’s prison (most likely for the rest of his life) and Mary and the children are made homeless and shunned by society for Tom’s misdeeds, would have also been incredibly unpopular.

Sidney and Lord Babington

On the surface, I can understand why you’ve compared Sidney and Lord Babington.  Both fall in love with feisty women and both intend to propose marriage to said feisty women – it’s an easy connection to make. However, I don’t think it’s accurate to say that Sidney’s actions are wholly bad and Lord Babington’s actions are wholly good simply because Lord Babington’s proposal ended in a marriage.

Let me give you another interpretation of Lord Babington and Esther’s relationship (not one I subscribe to, but one that can be drawn based on the narrative). Taken by Esther’s honesty and derision, Lord Babington makes Esther aware that he has feelings for her. Esther in turn rejects Lord Babington and tells him all further attempts on his part would be futile. Despite this, Lord Babington continues to pursue her, writing letters which she never answers – another clear indication that she is not interested. Lord Babington visits Sanditon with the express purpose of seeing Esther (1x05) and requests a private walk without a chaperone where he proposes marriage. Esther rejects his proposal. After hearing Edward speak badly of his sister, Lord Babington visits Esther in private, again without a chaperone present. Following Lady Denham’s recovery he once again goes on an outing with Esther without a chaperone. After discovering that Esther had a romantic relationship with Edward and Esther telling him that she doesn’t love him, Lord Babington proposes marriage for the second time and Esther finally accepts. They marry.

If S2 had gone ahead, I’m fairly sure Esther’s love for Edward and her lack of love for her husband would have been a major plot point. And while I think it would have all worked out in the end, that Esther would have realised she loves Lord Babington, what if it hadn’t? Esther may have come to resent her husband, trapped in a marriage by a husband who knows his wife does not love him, still pining for the one man she couldn’t have because of circumstances out of her control.  

Again, I understand why the choice to ignore some social conventions may be frustrating, however in Davies’ version of Regency England, breaking these conventions do not have the consequences they would have had in real life. By judging the actions of the characters by real life rules, you are assigning intention and consequence where there are none.

I think it’s also worth noting, that apart from Sidney and Charlotte themselves, nobody knows that they kissed and only Alison, Mary, Georgiana and Young Stringer are aware that Sidney was intending to propose marriage. Charlotte’s heart may be badly bruised, but her reputation is still intact.

Charlotte’s Agency

Perhaps it’s because Charlotte’s agency is more quietly expressed than other characters, but I think the argument that Charlotte became passive in the final two episodes, overlooks the very active choices Charlotte makes in regards to her feelings for Sidney. Passiveness suggests inaction, and in 1x08 Charlotte chooses to act – she asks Sidney whether she can join him on his walk into town. This may seem inconsequential, but it is anything but. Because Charlotte is not only choosing to trust in her feelings for Sidney and in his feelings for her, but she is telling Sidney his feelings are reciprocated and those feelings are strong enough that they need time alone to discuss their possible future together. The agency lies with Charlotte the whole time.

We began with the scene with a rather inane discussion about the weather and Charlotte’s family – Sidney is both desperate to discuss their conversation from the previous night, but patiently waiting for Charlotte to indicate that this is something she wishes to do. She does, telling him she would rather continue their walk together than return to town for her dress fitting.

Charlotte – “We seem not to be walking into town?”

Sidney – “Ah, yes, your dress fitting. Forgive me, what a fool I am. Should we head back, perhaps?”

Charlotte – “No, there is absolutely no urgency about my dress fitting. A walk along the clifftops is much more to my taste.”

Sidney – “Good. My thoughts exactly.”

Sidney is willing to end their walk and the possibility of discussing their feelings at the slightest hint that this may not be something Charlotte desires. However, following Charlotte’s lead, Sidney admits that he wished to find time alone with her to discuss their conversation while glancing at her mouth every five seconds, and of course they kiss. What is important to note is that Sidney continues to check in with Charlotte at every point in the lead up to that moment. Charlotte only had to say no or ask to return to town for Sidney not to proceed, something she is well aware of and actively chooses not to do. Responding positively to Sidney’s actions is not the same as passiveness. You only have to watch as Charlotte stares longing at Sidney to know that she desired the kiss just as much as he did.

Why am I mentioning all this? Because in your question, you talk quite a bit about Sidney’s choices and actions, and the consequences they may have for Charlotte, without acknowledging that Charlotte is an active participant. Do I think that means she could have somehow prevented what occurred? No, but nor do I think it’s fair to remove Charlotte’s participation from her own storyline. She may be a victim of incredibly poor circumstances, but I don’t think it’s fair to say she is a victim of Sidney’s poor behaviour. Sidney and Charlotte not ending the season married does not cancel out Charlotte’s agency in choosing to pursue her relationship with Sidney.

Thanks for the question, I hope I made sense!

[sometimesrosy]

can you recommend me some romantic movies that are just great? doesn’t matter if it’s a drama or comedy I’m in a need of some romance

You know. You know what was good?

Shakespeare in Love. Rafe Fiennes and Gwyneth Paltrow play Shakespeare and a lady who wants to join the theater so she dresses up as boy to play Romeo. Oh. no more spoilers. It’s super romantic. warning, no hea. 

Persuasion, either production. Where Anne falls in love with Captain Wentworth but is persuaded to not marry him because he’s too poor then she becomes a spinster aunt and he comes back a dashing war hero and it looks like she’s lost everything but in the end it is a hea. It’s just kind of sad until then. Lost love and all that. Found again.

For something a little funnier and more modern, one of my faves, While you Were Sleeping. where Lucy is a lonely train booth attendant who has a crush on handsome Peter, seeing him fall into the tracks one day and saving him from the train. He goes into a coma but somehow she is claimed to be his fiance and his family adopts her, whereupon she REALLY falls in love with Peter’s brother, Jack, who doesn’t believe she is who she says she is.

Oh hey. Outta left field. Let’s go classic musical. Gigi. Gigi is the granddaughter of a famous courtesan. And Gaston is a playboy who is her friend as a child, but Gigi grows up and falls in love with Gigi and her grandmother tries to make her into a courtesan but she refuses to be anyone’s mistress. You know, there are lots of songs in this one but I thought the story beneath the story was kind of tragic and sad, although it gets a HEA, and someone should remake it NOT as a musical. What a weird topic for a musical. I don’t know why this one popped into my head but it did, so I put it on the list. 

weird list i gave you i’ma stop here.

EDITED OH WAIT. #recs is the tag I use for this question. I was searching the wrong tag. But anyway.

ADD

Willow. Willow is a little person (i don’t remember what they’re called in the show) who is given a baby to take back to the big people, along the way he meets up with Madmordigan a scumbag warrior guy who somehow ends up in charge of getting Willow and the baby to someone important, and then they meet the sorceresses daughter, Sorcha, who captures them and Madmordigan falls in love with her under a spell... but is it a spell? anyway, it’s not a romance, it’s a fantasy sword and sorcerer kind of thing, but it is really romantic.

and...

I found the list I made that I was looking for when i first got your ask. let’s add it here. Some overlap

Sense and Sensibility

50 First Dates

Four Weddings and a Funeral

The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society

Amelie

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

You’ve Got Mail

Before Sunrise

Bull Durham

The Big Easy

Notting Hill

While You Were Sleeping

Practical Magic

Shakespeare In Love

Sliding Doors

Moonstruck

Bull Durham

Romancing the Stone

Princess Bride

Room With a View

Groundhog Day

Green Card

Reality Bites

Dirty Dancing

Ghost

Jerry Maguire

The Proposal

The Mummy (fraser not cruise)

The Holiday

Hitch

How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days

27 Dresses

Chocolat

Pride and Prejudice 2005