#Ankarna is not controlling any of them

[jarvesque]

There has been a lot of discourse surrounding the rat grinders and it's (mostly) been really cool and interesting

But while I love their complexity, and I think that it is important to remember that they are teenager who may have died in a very traumatic way before coming back, I also think that some people in the fandom are a bit too forgiving torwards them

There's a point where "They're teens,don't be so hard on them" doesn't cut it anymore.

They spent 2 years killing small animals in the woods before going to their spring break Adventure

(which sure,is kinda normal for Aguefort. But they kept doing it even when they were higher level instead of going on actual adventures because it was easy)

Kipperlily complained about fairness and how the Bad Kids had an unfair advantage but then her and her party only ever picked easy adventures that would not challenge them or teach them anything

And also,while it can be understandable to want to feel unique and I agree that Kipperlily's anger issues are a sign of deeper problems;

we can all agree that a fairly wealthy girl with living parents being envious of a lower class boy whose mother can barely pay for food because she is jealous that his dad died horribly when he was little IS absolutely fucked up right?

Like, it's such a deeply entitled attitude; and it doesn't make her a monster, but her not being a monster doesn't make her an innocent little angel who never did anything wrong; a middle ground exists

[danauschaewon]

my thoughts on dimension 20: fantasy high junior year ep 19 ragenarok Discourse™

⚠️ spoilers! ⚠️

from a watsonian perspective, the bad kids don't know of any way to cure a rage star. if any of the characters were stressed enough sufficiently to be angry (rage token), porter seems to be able to immediately control you so even not directly being controlled by a rage star seems to put you under ankarna's domain. there's no reasonable watsonian expectation for them to believe the ratgrinders could be redeemed, notwithstanding whether teenagers would show other teenagers who hate them that grace.

additionally, the Discourse™ seems to forget that there's ultimately a choice between following porter or not. lucy frostblade's sacrifice was extremely poignant because she chose to die rather than go against what she believed in. buddy dawn's immediate switch perfectly aligns with how religious fanatics believe/claim to believe whatever is convenient for them without any internal consistency. that doesn't mean that they weren't groomed by porter but there's really no ground for some of the moral absolutism I've been seeing here.

that also leads to something that I haven't seen people discussing; kipperlily and oisin straight up murdered buddy (their own party member, who they secretly treated as a pawn the whole time) by slitting his throat to try and keep the bad kids from being revived??? it's implied they also killed lucy and covered it up for so long that she is almost beyond reviving just so she couldn't snitch on them?? even if you liked the ratgrinders, they're much more ruthless than bad kids are, even if you take riz and fabian's comments into account. also, if the entire school was in fabian's house, they essentially tried to kill all 500 other students in their school + jawbone to beat a magical loophole to ascend porter.

and the obvious being: if you are fighting to end the world (remember they did bring down fig and gorgug, even if they are uncoordinated in pvp), don't be surprised when people fight you to save the world.

from the doyleist perspective, others have already pointed out that dnd is a combat focused game. if you fail a persuasion/intimidation/deception roll, regardless of what makes more sense for the story or the themes or your character, you probably have to fight to the death. this isn't a story written with a single overarching vision from one mind, it's real people being filmed in real time playing a game designed around roleplay AND combat. combat is gonna happen.

secondly, this is a world where powerful individuals have the ability to directly control the universe (magic). "might makes right" is a terrible moral system but that's also how reality works (laws are only (as strong as) their enforcement system, the police are an occupying army, etc).

human beings are social beings and our intelligence/creativity allows us to imagine a world where no individual or socioeconomic group can use might to make right. but our imagination also is limited by our own inconsistencies, ignorance, socialisation, habits, etc. and most importantly, our stories about the world mustn't confuse us from how the world actually is. not everyone can be redeemed, even if you want them to be.

if you want the world to change in a certain way, you have to gather enough strength to change it. the more it deviates from the status quo, the more strength you need. that's not just martial or economic power, there is social power that can be influenced by a collective moral or intellectual sense. however, those with the power to directly eliminate your existence will need to be sufficiently worried about consequences to not use that power (e.g. american police know they face no consequences for executing black people in cold blood, that's why they actually do kill instead of simply want to kill like other non-police racists).

if the ratgrinders want to kill the bad kids and ascend porter to godhood, they have to actually have to develop their skills to do so. that's why they exp levelled, they tried taking advantage of the last stand, one of them sent their grandma to kill the entire school at one kid's 18th birthday party. and correspondingly, if you don't want your 18th birthday party to end with your death + your entire school's deaths + the ascension of your teachers as the new god of rage, you gotta kill some grandmas and poorly coordinated exp levellers.

[pandomech]

I absolutely love making lists and the idea of Kipperlily Copperkettle killing the rest of the High Five Heroes to turn them Rage Star controlled is eating at my brain so here is my list of the one by one deaths of the High Five Heroes and some prologue for the events as a whole. Kipperlily is groomed by Porter due to her known anger issues as well as the known dislike of the bad kids from the group as a whole, eventually leading to her accepting the path of rage on her own, this allows the High Five Heroes to start grinding on higher level monsters than just rats and other low level monsters off the books explaining the time where it was thought Lucy Frostblade was going to be Ankarna's Champion. Porter then sets the plan to Rage Star the entire group and has Kipperlily deal with them.

First is Ruben Hopclap, due to his laidback nature normally he likes to pick on Kipperlily, siding against her just to see her mad for fun, maybe in hopes she will chill out and due to this she goes for him first. While he is isolated, Kipperlily sneak attacks him, a deep stab into his shoulder, he's still alive, a panicked scream rings out as the knife is pulled and then attempted to be plunged back in, as he is able to turn and try to struggle, a hand pushing against her face as he tries to make out the melody to cast a spell, his voice is to shaky to do the proper vocal components, he was never in this type of danger before, a knife enters his head as he dies. He is the first to die being afraid he quickly accepts the offer of revival, not knowing what he signs and slowly loses his memory while under the Rage Star's control.

Then is Oisin Hakinvar and Ivy Embra, they were always teaming up to get what they wanted in votes, it was so annoying to Kipperlily, she had no help in this party and she was going to get the majority now. They were together like always when Kipperlily and Ruben attacked, Ruben casting something to restrain Ivy as she would be harder to take down compared to a wizard as Kipperlily went after Oisin, a swift dagger and he was already down, Ivy watched completely stuck as Kipperlily turned to her, Ivy can't close her eyes as her own throat is slit. Both are offered revival, both accept as what other option is there, the amount of time between Ruben and their deaths is the reason they remember that bit more after the Rage Star's effects.

Next is Mary Ann Skuttle, she never explained anything, that was so infuriating, if she just said why if any of them said why maybe it would help Kipperlily to understand but no, none of them were any help, and now Kipperlily would hear her speak. She was just buying soda from the vending machine again, like always, but this time no one seemed to be around thanks to the help from some teachers, a stab into her back, shocked eyes as she twisted around, Kipperlily was spun around with her, as the three others attacked as well, despite the shock no screams came out, how annoying defying her until the end of her stupidly silent life. When revival was offered she sighed then accepted who could choose anything else, remembering mostly everything after was fine, life could go back to being the same.

Finally Lucy Frostblade, she was always early to the monster grind spot, Porter had destroyed the trees nearby overtime, who cared about trees, it was finally time to get control with her favorite for last. Lucy greeted the others as they arrived, only to be confused as they seemed different, a knife flew to her throat, she dodged barely as the others started battle, a Monster conjured, an arrow flew for her head, unfamiliar rock music started up, all as she ran, a dagger flew into her leg, an arrow cut her shoulder, she thought of all the magic she could cast to try to fight back, get away, she couldn't bring herself to fight her friends or even run from them, she healed herself as Mary Ann tackled her, the monster stomped on her leg as she screamed asking what's wrong with them, Kipperlily sliced her throat, not wanting her to suffer any longer, she'd be back soon anyways. The offer of revival was offered, the pros and cons explained, Lucy stared back, not wanting to become like her brainwashed friends, not wanting to abandon her god, not wanting any part of this anymore she refused, of course not, in what world would anyone accept, as she waited alone for a new offer of life to come. Meanwhile Kipperlily watched as she wouldn't get back up screaming for her to awake like all the others, turning to Porter with fury, going to yell in anger only to yell in pain as she even thought of defying him, she turned back to look at Lucy, no tears left as she and the Rat Grinders left as well, they'd need a new Cleric.

Buddy came, Buddy died, was revived like the others, he was the newest, Kipperlily has no grievances about ending his life. He was released of the Rage Star with all his memories of it's control in tact, the control seemed so natural that he didn't even waver when he made a brand new god, nor when he and Bakarath were meet by Kalina.

Kipperlily lies somewhere in hell, burning, screaming with rage, she didn't deserve this fate, she was just getting what she deserved, why was she here.

Lucy was revived after being moved from the empty abyss of rage to Kristen's personal afterlife, She wanted to get to her friends, talk to them, they were brainwashed after all, who could blame them for their actions.

... and that's my brainrot on full display, I've been thinking of these collective moments since the end of the season, thanks for reading and I hope you enjoyed the angst, have an amazing day.

[dejaruhe]

Deeply fascinated by my own reactions to fhjy EP 19. I don't think any other season has made me so sad about the BBEGs and their crews, and I've caught up on most of the seasons now... I wonder if it's because they're mostly kids, if it's because BLeeM is deliberately doing a "humanize BBEGs" season (the way he plays Mary Ann 😭)... how much of it is being more involved with Tumblr fandom? I see Starbreaker art and I get all these headcanons about Jace and how he's being manipulated by someone he loves, and I see ratgrinders art and get headcanons about them, and the only BBEG that I honestly wanna see die is Porter. The rest of them have been killed and brought back wrong, I think, and if Porter can also control folks with stress tokens, they're all just being brutally puppeted. I get how the Bad Kids have lots of rage built up and I'm down with them doing whatever — Fabian reacting to Ivy's shit about fucking skinning Mazey the way he did seems quite in-character and honestly? Kind of justified? And Oisin certainly deserves the axe to the chest that he received, he's been planning to fuck with Seacaster Manor all year, he set SO MANY dragons on them (!), but I'm glad his head is still attached. I really want them all to be able to be brought back uncorrupted, or as followers of Real Ankarna at the very least. I feel like if they kill everybody and save Ankarna and Cassandra, then the gods can help heal the puppet bad guys and just leave Porter in hell... 🤞🏻

[a-jar-of-beetles]

Ughgghggh the Buddy resurrection and changes in the rat grinders have me equally stressed and curious because it's so hard to tell if it's a straight up possession type of deal or if their rage is just amplified and making them act more irrationally.

What's weirding me out is how Buddy acted after being resurrected obviously there the whole worshipping a new deity but the way he says it is just really bizarre he says it like it's some kind of automatic response even though it clearly isn't, he doesn't ask any questions, and wasn't prompted to stay anything. Another thing is that He uses I as a pronoun, now this could be me looking at it too deep but I feel like it makes the identity of who is in control even more vague. I also found it strange that he said he worshiped "A nameless god of rage" because we know that Ankarna is a goddess whose name has been rediscovered.

Back on topic in the preview Bobby mentions that they can't find Buddy's soul which means that Buddy's soul is either in his body or isn't accessible through whatever spell is being cast. Whatever the case it doesn't seem to lean one way or the other right now which makes theorizing about motivations a lot harder

[operationslipperypuppet]

the thing about fig and ankarna, that seems to go unmentioned, is that emily is never going to play straight up and down worship.

fig isn’t concerned with bringing ankarna back - that’s not her bag, it never will be, and emily is so cognizant of wanting stories to feel different (to the point where she didn’t pursue a pc romance in naddpod’s campaign one, even when she knew both in and out of character that her character’s feelings were requited, because a romance story was already being told by the third pc) that she wouldn’t want fig to tell the same story kristen did in fhsy.

i think this lack of worship is best exemplified with how emily’s other pcs deal with and have relationships to gods, but this got incredibly long so the rest is under the cut.

to briefly talk about emily pcs and religion in general, there’s never a straight worship happening. alongside saccharina’s cleric status, emily has played 2 clerics and a paladin in naddpod, as well as a druid with deep religious ties. i’m going to talk about those since i’m the most familiar with them.

i’ll actually start with saccharina, since this arguably a post about dimension 20. her cleric levels aren’t at all about worship, certainly not of the whole of the sweetening path (she was the one who wanted to kill the sugar plum fairy, and would have, but essentially let ruby), they’re about defiance. defiance of the nuns who raised and abused her. defiance of the mother who left her behind. defiance of the father who never came to find her, who never knew she existed, who pushed her mother aside to become king of candia and join the concord. the sweetening path exists as a separate entity and act of defiance to the bulbian church, the thing at the center of the existence of the concord. her use of that magic and those abilities is about controlling and directing her innate magic, embracing the storm within. it’s not about worship of an entity.

the two other clerics were tied to actual gods, the trickster and the elder, but aren’t concerned with worship in the slightest. fia’s ties to the trickster are from being a blade (organization with ties to the god to protect people from undead and solve mysteries regarding fairies and pertaining to the gods), from being saved and partially raised by a blade, from being raised in a place that was essentially a cult of the reaper (the third god, much more concerned with death than the other two) and nearly being a sacrifice to the reaper before being rescued, and from seeing trickster magic in her girlhood friend. the actual power she gets is more about the ties she has to irina, and she actually ends the campaign quite angry at the gods and fixing their mistakes. tarragon is a little different, and the most tied to an actual god of any emily pc i’ve seen. she becomes a cleric to repent for being a soldier who was experimented on and used by people in power, to make up for the killing she did in her youth, the razing she did as a dragon warrior. at the end of her arc, she isn’t as tied to the ideals of repentance and order and peace. she’s devoted herself back to her friends. and realized that she can do these things without involvement in the cult-like following the elder has in town.

the we come to calliope, the paladin. she is not sworn to a god. she’s an oath of redemption paladin of the serpent queen (and a little bit oberon if you think about it). she’s using her power and position to attempt to help redeem her mother’s memory, but also to change the path oberon set for the world. a prophecy is coming true that was set before the world got complicated. she’s less concerned with swearing herself to the powers that be and more concerned with helping the serpents themselves, making sure they are not being used by the wrong people, keeping them from harm. she’s worshipping no one. she’s helping the helpless.

then, finally, moonshine. i could write thousands of words on moonshine cybin, so i’ll stick to one or two things. her ties to melora are important to her. she does, in fact, pray to her god, especially in times when she’s feeling conflicted. but she also gets angry at melora. she hates melora’s neutrality, she yells into the sky at melora on more than one occasion, and she all but loses her faith in shadowfell. but she comes back. and when melora needs her most, she reaches out a hand to heal her, brings melora’s long lost friend in to help, and saves the world by healing the heart. she lets this god be complicated. she recognizes the human nature of her. they’re allowed to be flawed, but she’s also allowed to call it out.

fig as a paladin is no different from all these other examples. if you look closely, you can absolutely feel how fig and moonshine were created by the same person around the same time, and callie’s recentering on her paladin self happened shortly before junior year was filmed, so you can look at those things as connected. fig decided to become a paladin to help kristen, to help cassandra. not because she believes simply in the power and clarity of doubt. (the point made there by porter and zara about that not feeling like fig was fine, but that’s not how they should have said it, especially to a student who just made this choice). she’s doing this to help her friends. she took healing word so they’d go down less. she moved from whispers to lore and made it so she could do more support (counterspell, cutting words, etc). hell, her being a hexblade is so there are more people capable of melee combat.

protecting ankarna’s domain doesn’t change how fig sees herself as a paladin. it isn’t going to make her (or emily) want to move to a straight up “i pray to this god and get my spells”, cut and dry, type of paladin. she’s not going to put herself on the line and be the first follower of ankarna. but she’ll see a hurt entity for what it is, recognize the humanity of that, and do what she feels will acknowledge it.

she’s not removing the restraints placed when this god died. but she’s opening a door 1000 miles from it, for if ankarna is ever ready or able to walk through.

[lucyfrostblade]

TRG yellowjackets au? please go on i love yellowjackets

it isn't the most thought out AU out there, and i generally don't like AU that are just a one-to-one with another piece of media but i do see some character parallels that i'd use as the jumping off point if i were to actually write it (no promises). also i have talked abt this a little in the fh fic writer support group discord so some ideas are gonna sound familiar if you're in there too

spoilers for yellowjackets and for fantasy high junior year (obviously):

buddy dawn & laura lee, both are characters that defined by their faith. worship of helio is so clearly based on evangelical christianity that it feels like an obvious answer. but another thing is that their faith cannot save either of them. the christian god cannot save laura lee from the wilderness, and helio cannot save buddy from being murdered in the name of ankarna. laura is definetly stronger in her faith, and i think given the entire bakarath thing, buddy would be on of the first ones to join the wilderness cannibalism cult but still. i imagine either dying in a situation similar to laura lee or being one of the sacrifices in the hunt.

kipperlilly copperkettle & misty quiggley, my absolute favorite serial killers. misty is much more clearly a loser than kipperlilly is in the team timeline but that's because misty quiggley thrives when she can hide bodies and abuse the elderly, two hobbies i think kipperlilly would be great at. but, to be serious, both of them capture different ends of the unlikeable unhinged teen girl spectrum. kipperlilly is much more controlled and calculated in her actions, while misty is more emotional and reactive. look at the differences in how they murdered their best friends. but they share the same loneliness and status as the outsider in the group. kipperlilly survives in this au, where none of the other rat grinders really like her but she's still the person they call when they need to hide a body.

ivy embra & natalie scatorccio, a parallel i am less confident in but can still see. mean girls who use it to hide how they really feel, who seem cool on the surface but underneath it all they are messes. they share a similar bravado, i feel, and i think there's something about ivy being a ranger and nat being the hunter of the group in a way that i am a little bit obsessed with but don't have any solid thoughts on yet.

lucy frostblade & lottie matthews. i understand that on a certain level that kipperlilly's narrative slot is much more similar to lottie's than lucy's is but lottie's the prophet, the one that understands the wilderness and the winter, and i cannot help but see lucy in that. lucy who was so strong in her faith that she died, lucy who was just a goliath before she became a frost genasi. she would accidentally start a cult doing her weird girl shit, would absolutely be the person who the rest of the rat grinders turn to when things start getting weird or scary in the absence of shatterstars mindcontrolling them. and yeah, i think, ultimately that lucy's understanding of the world as a harsh place where people are meant to be "the fire that warms" aligns with lottie's view of the wilderness.

that's the extent of the thought i have put into it so far but i come back to the idea a lot, it has it's own corner of my brain

[stacy-fakename]

Ok, so first of all, the shatterstars are canonically established multiple times to take more control over the more willing you are. The more you give in, the more Ankarna can control you. Secondly, I said parasite because that's what BLeeM refers to them. And thirdly, willing taking in a parasite doesn't stop it from being a parasite. If I purposefully eat a tapeworm, it's still gonna be a tapeworm. Kipperlilly chose to take in the shatterstar, yes, but there's no way she could have truly understood what it was coming, nor could she back out when she did experience that stuff, because as established during that fight, unlike everyone else, because she consented to having it put in her chest, even death couldn't take it out of her. Like I said, the more willing you are, the stronger it is.

Kipperlilly easily could cause more damage than Adaine. KLCK is a terrifyingly good assassin and a literally mastermind, if she felt like it she could destroy entire governments. Adaine, while powerful, is no where near the power of Arthur Aguefort, who ALSO couldn't take down Fallinel, while he was wielding the sun and summoning hundreds of terracotta clones of himself. And if she burned down Fallinel like she said she would, she'd lose all of her resources she gets from being the Elven Oracle. All she would have is random visions she can't control that have been repeatedly stated to not actually be that helpful.

Kipperlilly's plan did turn everyone in Elmville rageful! Except the adventuring teenagers, who were all purposefully taken away from the town prior to Ragnerok. Also, anyone that WAS in the town would probably go to hell with the town itself anyways when it became a demiplane?

I feel like genre shouldn't equal morals, but that might personal philosophy. Like, the context of the world should be taken into account, yes, but there are limits. Say, in the context of the world of Brooklyn 99, cops are good. I still think it's copaganda and that all the cops in it are pigs. So similarly, when it comes to the murder of Johnny Spells (who reminder, had his soul held hostage and was being forced to help or be erased, which in a world with afterlives means a fucking lot) or similar things, I feel like it should absolutely be as bad as murder in real life. Especially when not in a position to be revived. I don't know where I'm going with this, I have a lot of feelings about moral philosophy in media analysis.

Again, I'm not saying Kipperlilly's a good person or was right. I'm saying that, with what's been established, she was not at fault. She was groomed by a man with the power to convince anyone, even omniscient gods, that whatever he says is true, including how you feel about something and what you want to do. That man, with that power, told her she wanted to go through this ritual that would attack a parasite to her soul that takes away her ability to think and feel things like guilt, empathy, and shame. Then she was ordered to kill 5 people she was barely friends with and 1 person she genuinely did care about. And then she died. What I'm saying is she doesn't deserve hell, she deserves to get the shatterstar out of her chest and then institutionalized for a long time where she can receive the help she's been reaching out for for years and not receiving (remember how she was the only one of the Rat Grinders actively reaching out for help from Jawbone?). How does Ankarna, who did this to all of these children and only switched sides when she learned she wasn't going to get what she was promised, get off scot-free while the mind controlled teenager dies?

Sorry if any of this sounded aggressive, I promise it's not, I'm just bad with tone online and especially during discussions like this. Have a nice day!

i love kipperlily defenders, someone please remind them you can have a truly evil character be your fav

she did not have normal teenage anger, she had a homicide, she committed cold blooded murder against her best friend, that is not "local teen girl has some issues" that is murder.

it is truly beautiful what people will defend, but as a klkc fan myself, let her be villainous, let her be unreasonable, let her be hated, you can still love her for being awful