#And word-vomitting meta upon it...

[thelostgirl21]

I think one of the reasons why I absolutely adore Magnus and Alec's first time together is because, as Magnus once said, Alec is just so... innocent.

I know that fans are often equating him sort of pouncing on Magnus to passionately kiss him (as soon as he learned they had the apartment to themselves), and later eagerly pushing him towards the bedroom while starting to unbutton his shirt, as him being anything but "innocent".

But, to me, having the confidence to express his desires, going after what he wants, and taking charge of a situation - even one filled with some unknowns - is not something indicating a lack of innocence on Alec's part.

Part of it likely comes from his own temperament. Like Izzy said, he has a tendency to overthink things.

He can make brash and impulsive decisions, at times, in an effort to quickly fix issues causing him a great deal of emotional distress, true. But otherwise, he usually tries to look at a situation through as many angles as he can, collect data from a number of different sources, ask for other people's input, etc., before reaching a conclusion.

Once he does commit to a given course of action, however, he fully commits!

Not blindly (i.e. the feedback he receives from his environment will make him change course if he notices something's wrong and he's no longer sure that he's doing the right thing), but with an impressive amount of drive, willpower, and determination.

What makes him such a formidable leader, IMHO, is that he's got the strength of his convictions, while said convictions remain flexible and adaptable in light of any newly acquired information.

Whenever he realizes he's made a mistake, he's able to own it, figure out / explain why he made that mistake, learn from it, and work on solutions to prevent making those same mistakes again.

And it is a really, really good thing. Because, driven as he is, if he was remotely dogmatic in his beliefs or unable to cope with the idea of being wrong, he'd truly be dangerous - crushing anything and anyone in his path to reach his objectives.

But the point is that Alec is someone that typically tries to measure the potential impact of his actions before he reaches a decision.

And, since all of his concerns have been dealt with before - during the "overthinking phase" - there's often no longer any need for him to hesitate or hold back while acting on it.

In this very instance, it was rather clear that becoming sexually intimate with Magnus was something that he'd had the chance to think long and hard (no pun intended) about.

Since - given he'd already been with approximately 17 000 lovers before - the likeliness of Magnus being comfortable having sex with him was rather high.

From Alec's P.O.V., I'm guessing that the only one "reasonably holding them back" from being sexually intimate with each other, technically, was Alec himself.

I have a feeling that he already knew that, deep down, he felt ready to have sex with Magnus when he went to ask Izzy for advice.

He just needed to be sure that his lack of experience wasn't making him overlook any important variables before fully "going for it".

For example: Is there anything that Izzy wished she'd have known before she had sex for the first time that she didn't? Anything specific he should be made aware of? Anything he (or Magnus) could regret?

And she basically lets him know that - since Magnus and him genuinely care about each other - it's going to be fine.

If the thought of having sex with Magnus is something that Alec wants, if it makes him happy, then the best thing for him to do is to stop worrying!

She's making it rather clear that her own experience with sexual intimacy is - thankfully - not something she regrets, and there's no reason why Alec might regret it, either.

If it is something that he does yearn for, and since he's with someone that genuinely cares about his well-being and safety, then the only thing that might ruin this for Alec is Alec himself worrying about what could go wrong.

So, Alec pouncing on Magnus - going right after what he wants and what makes him happy with pure abandon once he's sure of his decision - to me, is extremely typical of the way Alec behaves in general.

But, most importantly, I see it as a sign of complete trust in his partner.

He's comfortable enough initiating the physical intimacy and openly expressing what he wants, regardless of his own inexperience, because he trusts Magnus to guide him through the process.

As it turns out, however, Alec had overlooked some variables - namely Magnus' own fears and insecurities. And this is where Alec displays traits that really show how innocent he is, too.

He sees Magnus as someone that loves him unconditionally, and that couldn't possibly seek to hurt or take advantage of him.

Alec is in love with him, he feels loved by him, and he's got no tangible awareness, apparently, that there is a significant power imbalance between them that Magnus (thankfully) remains very aware and respectfully mindful of.

I say "thankfully", because the fact that Magnus worries about taking advantage of any situation with Alec is a good sign that Alec's trust in him isn't being misplaced.

I believe that Magnus is fully aware that, his whole life, Alec has been conditioned to meet the expectations of those he loves and depends on to feel safe.

And, while they eventually did see the errors of their ways, his parents did use how they expressed or withheld love and approval towards their children as motivational tools to get them to act certain ways, and make certain choices.

Alec was even willing to go as far as marry Lydia because he felt responsible for fixing his parent's mistakes and restoring his family's honor.

He has a tendency to readily sacrifice his own wants and needs for those he loves - to put himself second.

And Magnus knows that he's always been very honest with him regarding his past sex life history.

From appreciative "name dropping" (Michelangelo was "excellent in bed", Casanova was "brazen"...) to him having been with "men, women, seelies, warlocks, vampires... a djin or two" (about 17 000 of them!), he's made it rather clear that sex is something he enjoys indulging in every now and then.

So, it wouldn't be far fetched for Magnus to worry that Alec would have interpreted his openness about sex in general as being something that he would absolutely need to have in a relationship in order to continue being interested in his partner.

It makes sense that Magnus would be concerned that he may have unwittingly offered Alec the impression that, if he took too long before being able to "give him what he needs" to be happy or feel fulfilled in their relationship, then he might decide that being with a 20-something inexperienced virgin Shadowhunter wasn't worth it, and/or go seek "his pleasure" elsewhere.

I mean, from what I understand, Magnus himself has often been made to feel like what he had to offer was either too much, or not enough, too. He even apologetically told Alec in the beginning of their relationship "I know I'm a lot to get used to".

So, his own ability to clearly express where he stands and what he wants or needs - and have his partner understand it - has been something that he's been made to feel very insecure about.

And the last thing he wishes to do, I believe, is hurt Alec or take advantage of him; to have Alec feel like he should be sexually active with him based on any wrongly interpreted signal that Magnus might have been unwittingly sending him simply by being open and honest about his past.

And if you do force yourself to have sex with someone without truly wanting it - for fear that you might be losing them if you don't - there's a very high likeliness of your own body responding to the sexual act as some form of aggression.

Sadly, once your brain starts making associations between the feeling that some of your personal boundaries having been violated and the person you were with when that feeling occurred, you may instinctively start withdrawing from them and be uncomfortable being generally intimate with them.

So, Magnus being instinctively cautious, and refusing to immediately take Alec's eagerness to be sexually intimate with him at face value makes sense and is extremely reassuring in its own way.

Alec also display some measure of innocence in the way he responds to Magnus attempt at slowing him down, too.

It goes from this sort of still somewhat eager open confusion where he's just verbally clarifying what he wants (Okay... I thought pouncing on your significant other once you've made sure the way is clear might convey "I want us to sleep together! Let's do this! I'm ready!"... Did I miss something? Damnit, Izzy, I swear if I learn there's some sort of mating ritual you're supposed to go through first, and you never thought to tell me, I'll be so pissed!)...

...to extremely focused on Magnus when he starts expressing his own concerns with Alec's wish for them to become sexually intimate together so soon into the relationship.

Alec's not just listening to his words, but appears to be actively looking for clues in Magnus' gaze and in his behavior to help him figure out what's happening, and what he might have been missing in all of his prior "overthinking".

While Alec doesn't seem to fully "get it" (apparently totally unaware that having sex with someone before you are fully ready might put a strain on a relationship, and/or just how easy it would be for someone to take advantage of the way Alec is so openly offering himself to them), he does appear to get that Magnus is scared that he is making the decision to please him, rather than because he truly wants to.

So, to me, having Alec clearly tell him "You have nothing to worry about, I want this", right before confidently pushing Magnus towards the bedroom while starting to unbutton his shirt, doesn't translate as a lack of innocence on his part, either.

I see it more as Alec's way of reassuring Magnus that he is genuinely ready for them to be sexually intimate together. It's him trying to make Magnus feel that he's doing this for himself, first and foremost.

It's Alec wordlessly saying "I may be inexperienced, but I don't see why being inexperienced should make me apprehensive about being sexually intimate with you. I trust you, I believe I'm making the right choice for myself, and I need you to trust me, too."

Alec's innocence also shines through in the way he initiates making love with Magnus like someone that's never been hurt in love before.

In the way he doesn't seem to have any specific expectations besides sharing something that's supposedly wonderful and fun with Magnus.

His guards are completely down, and he's just this happy, giggling, fumbling mess feeling his way around and trying to figure out the steps as he goes...

When Magnus teasingly remarks "that was graceful" (referring to how they both lost their balance several times while making their way to the bed - trying to remove pieces of clothing at the same time - to finally clumsily topple together on top of said bed), Alec gets in on the humor by happily replying "Shadowhunter" while gesturing to himself, then passionately dives right back in all the kissing and groping.

It doesn't seem to occur to him - not even for a second - that some sexual partners have a tendency to take sex very "seriously", and are unable to keep their concentration when the other person is constantly giggling and laughing or even *gasp* joking.

He's not acting like he's scared of messing anything up by not knowing what he's doing, either.

He's not worried about the possibility of Magnus gossiping about having slept with a Shadowhunter, while mocking his lack of experience or "technique" with fellow Warlocks.

There isn't the slightest notion in his mind that any of this could be about Magnus' wishing to add a Shadowhunter on his already impressive list of "sexual conquests".

Until Magnus interrupts them again, there's not a single tiny bit of concern being expressed by Alec about his ability to "offer a good sexual performance", and/or "living up to his partner's expectations", either.

He's just this happy, carefree, loving partner having the time of his life, exploring something new and wonderful in his relationship with the man he loves - something that he never believed he could ever have for himself - and staying in the moment.

He's (rightly) assuming that, because Magnus saw him when it seemed no one else did, told him that being "different" was a good thing, has since been able to set up clear boundaries with him and hold him accountable in the relationship without targeting his ego, and has never tried to make him feel like he's not "good enough" for him, there's no reason why Magnus should expect him to offer anything other than himself.

There's no use for Alec to attempt to pretend he's this amazing lover when he's never been in the position of being a lover before, and Magnus has clearly told him that "he doesn't care how many people he hasn't been with" already.

Magnus makes Alec feel safe, unconditionally loved, supported, and gives him confidence.

Generally speaking, in virtually any context, he uses his own power and experience to empower Alec and help him reach his own potential, rather than seek to dominate him and make him feel small.

He's someone that Alec feels comfortable being emotionally and physically "naked" with.

I remember that the first time I heard and watched the way Alec proudly answered "Shadowhunter" - then immediately grabbed Magnus to kiss him some more (barely giving him any time to process the comment) - I was just totally overwhelmed with "feels"!

Alec is just so blissfully happy and adorably confident and way too pure for this world in this moment! And it's such a delight to watch Magnus positively respond to him and savor those moments with him.

Being innocent, in a sexual context, is not something that I personally see as turning 3 shades of red and starting to giggle nervously because someone said the word "penis" out loud, or freezing at the thought of seeing or touching a bit of skin.

I mean, seeing how comfortable Jace was with Alec walking in on him while he was in the middle of foreplay with a member of his "book club", I'm guessing that it's not the first time something like that has happened between them.

Alec himself appeared to be more irritated with Jace's blatant lack of shame or sense of interpersonal boundaries, rather than traumatized over what he saw was about to happen.

And then, there's Isabelle that, if I remembered correctly, complained about how she was constantly talking to Alec about her love/sex life, while he kept everything to himself.

So, there's no question that Alec knows what sex is, and likely sees sexual activity as something natural that is nothing to be ashamed of.

Being in his early twenties, you would sort of expect him to be surrounded by openly sexually active people and understand what's usually "going on" in a bedroom, not to mention having been given plenty of time to explore his own body.

Thus, what makes him innocent, in the context of a romantic and sexual relationship, to me, really is how he approaches lovemaking with such an open and trusting heart, while laughing, stumbling, trying to connect with his partner and focusing on them being happy together without any hint of concern or fear of being hurt in the process.

And Magnus offers Alec a safe space to be himself and fully enjoy the moment they are sharing by letting Alec set the pace and following his lead. He's stumbling, giggling, and allowing himself to be blissfully happy right alongside him, approaching the whole experience as something new and exciting.

And it is. Each partner you share a bed with is unique, and you will need to find your own shared rhythm with them.

Magnus, however, could easily have ignored all of this and spontaneously taken the role of "the experienced mentor" that will teach the "newbie" everything he knows about sex, including the "best, most pleasurable way to do it"! But he didn't.

And if you're laughing at the statement I just gave, you'd be surprised with how many partners I've had, in my teenage and adult years, that approached sex as some sort of competitive sport, boasting at their own skills and experience, and immediately tried to "take you under their wing" to "teach you all of their trade secrets" as soon as they learned that they were the most experienced out of the two.

Thankfully, my very first experience was with a guy one year younger than myself, that had only had one sexual partner before me, and who was just the sweetest, most attentive partner any virgin could have asked for.

He made the whole experience be about me being comfortable with what was happening and about us being and figuring things out together; and that was exactly what I needed at the time. He never made me feel like there was any rush for us to get anywhere specific together.

Sadly, not everyone is as fortunate. Some experienced partners appear to care way more about showcasing their skills and being praised for "giving you a good time", rather than achieving any sense of partnership.

I really believe, however, that the most experienced partner's role should always be to put themselves at the least experienced partner's level at first, so that they can then build something together from there.

Perhaps the least experienced one will be delighted to have the most experienced partner "show off" what they can do and teach them new things!

But the point simply is that it should be a choice they make, and not something that's being imposed on them from the get go on the assumption that "my job is to show you a good time and teach you stuff".

Immediately taking charge without first confirming that this is something the other wants or needs is the best way to damage the least experienced partner's confidence, make them feel like what they have to offer you with their current level of skills and knowledge isn't enough, and make them become overly fearful of taking initiative and just experimenting with different things in the bedroom.

And this is true whether the person you are with is someone you care about, love, and wish to develop a relationship with, or someone you just met at a bar and may never see again in your life.

Even if the goal of the sexual encounter isn't to build a more in depth relationship, the moment you are spending together is an intimate act where you are supposed to be partners. It's a moment where you need to make sure that you both (or all, should you be more than two) get something out of it, and feel like you are contributing to what's happening.

I have friends involved in BDSM - some of them enjoying the occasional company of a complete stranger as they feel it adds something exciting to the experience.

Anyone with a healthy approach to BDSM would tell you how important it is for any dominant/submissive dynamic to be consensual and include limits that all partners have discussed and agreed upon.

There's nothing wrong with the more experienced partner taking the lead in any sexual context, but they always need to make sure that this is what the other(s) want. Trust and communication are key - including paying attention to the non-verbal.

Thankfully, in this context Magnus handles Alec's innocence and inexperience absolutely beautifully, and is more than willing to make the moment about Alec and about the two of them.

Actually, Magnus is so skilled at matching Alec's own rhythm and sharing the experience with him, that he instinctively finds himself letting his own barriers down.

Apparently, Alec makes love with such an open heart and soul - hiding no part of himself in the process - that Magnus can't maintain his own glamour to hide any part of himself from Alec, either.

And, just like that, the power dynamic is changed!

In the Shadow World, Shadowhunters consider themselves the superior race since they share blood with the angels.

They are warriors of light imbued with Heavenly powers that proudly display their runes for anyone (except Mundanes, obviously) to see!

But the Downworlders - that share blood with demons - are taught to hide their "shameful demonic heritage" and are expected to constantly fight against their "demonic nature" that makes them "naturally more prone" to violence, decadence, evil actions, and so forth.

Warlocks may be the most powerful species of the Shadow World, they also are the literal children of demons - hybrids that can't even have their own children and who are carrying a physical mark that reflects their demonic parentage.

Some Shadowhunters apparently used to take those marks as trophies (it's pretty clear that Circle members still do), and it seems to be one of the ways that Shadowhunters sometimes use to confirm the identity of a warlock.

Later, we also learn that Magnus has been vulnerable to Asmodeus' influence as a child because he was the only other person he'd ever met with "eyes like his".

Magnus' eyes are tied to a lot of shame, early rejection (including his mother killing herself and abandoning him, when he was nine, when she finally realized what her son's cat eyes meant), and overall bad memories.

I think that the only times, until then, that we'd seen Magnus with his glamour down on the show was when he was trying to drive people away / intimidate them / remind them of how powerful and potentially dangerous he (or a spell he is performing) is.

It's when he wants people to remember that he's also "part monster", that they would do well not to get on his bad side, or make sure that someone requiring his services understands the type of forces they are dealing with.

Jocelyn Fairchild knocking at his door to get Clary's memories removed, those Circle members in the club, the one Magnus was fighting in his apartment...

They are all people that Magnus wanted to send some form of warning to, whether the warning was hostile, or not.

And suddenly, those "monster eyes" are on full display for Alec to see in a context where he wishes to make Alec feel safe and avoid anything that could ever drive him away.

Thanks to him having lost control over his glamour, Alec is now concerned that he's done something wrong...

And, although Magnus is quick to reassure Alec that his current reaction has nothing to do with something he did - or with him not wanting to share this intimate moment with him - he's still avoiding Alec's gaze, seemingly withdrawing from him, and offering no coherent or clear explanation as to why.

But, try as he might, Magnus can't bring the glamour back on, so he's essentially got two choices...

He can either trust that Alec won't leave once he sees his warlock mark, and that he'll be able to accept that it is a part of him that he can't always control (apparently).

That, should Alec find his eyes' appearance unsettling, they'll find ways to manage the situation until Magnus becomes better at maintaining his glamour around Alec while the two of them are being intimate with each other. Maybe get creative with the use of blindfolds?

Or he can continue to let Alec worry over what's happening while stubbornly keeping his eyes closed and refusing to look at him until he gets the glamour back on, thus maintaining a certain form of "barrier" between them.

Magnus thus chooses to take the risk of allowing himself to be vulnerable with Alec once again - allowing him to see him without any glamour - so he'll understand that his reaction wasn't caused by anything Alec did.

Or actually, maybe it was caused by something Alec did; just not by something Alec did wrong.

And I also love the way that Alec's expression doesn't change right away once Magnus finds the courage to turn around.

I love that Alec briefly continues to just look at him like he's still trying to figure out what's wrong with Magnus now that he's FINALLY able to look in his eyes - steadily searching for the answer there like he did earlier.

I like to think that Alec sort of initially just mentally went: "Okay, that's good, I've managed to get him to look at me. Now, I just need to convince him that it's okay for him to tell me what he meant by "los - OH!"

That the moment he realizes the eyes he's been looking into have changed color and appearance, he breaks into that slightly amused smile (mostly amused at himself for having been too focused on trying to read the emotions written there to immediately notice the change); relieved to know that Magnus and him will be okay.

Because, just like Madzie's gills looked incredibly cool, Magnus' cat eyes are absolutely gorgeous, and Alec knows he's just falling in love with his boyfriend's eyes all over again, gladly getting lost in their depth.

Alec can only hope that Magnus will believe him when he tells him that they are beautiful, that he's beautiful... That it will help relieve some of the pain, fears, and concerns he sees reflected in them...

Meanwhile, Magnus watches Alec go from being a concerned, confused, and inquisitive puppy; to a relieved, mesmerized, and adoring one in a matter of seconds!

Next thing he knows, there's a warm, gentle hand against his cheek; and a pair of open, steady, loving hazel eyes staring right back into his own, tenderly anchoring him there while Alec is calling his cat eyes beautiful, telling him that he's beautiful - all of him - with all the love and sincerity he can muster.

Magnus can allow himself to relax, lovingly reach up to caress the hand resting on his cheek while lazily blinking back at him in wonder.

His cat eyes - that Magnus had usually used to inspire respect and fear, to remind people of his powers and appear more intimidating - aren't driving him away.

For some reason, they appear to be drawing Alec in instead, inspiring him to move even closer to him rather than farther apart. And perhaps - just perhaps - if Alec can love them and see beauty in them, he might be able to learn to love and fully own that part of himself, too.

One of the things that fascinate me about Alec is that, once he found out that his parents and the Clave had lied to him his whole life about their involvement in the Circle, it's like he made the conscious decision to bring all of his perceptions of the Downworld back to factory reset.

He was able to recognize that all of the prejudices he'd ever had about warlocks, vampires, and other Downworlders weren't based on facts, and that there was no actual evidence that Downworlders were better or worse people just for having demon blood.

Instinctively, we fear what we don't know or don't understand - what we haven't been familiarized with when we were young. We perceive what isn't "like us" or "a part of our usual environment" as potential threats.

ROBERT: [Magnus]'s reputation precedes him. And even for a warlock, he’s a bit of a lothario. Alec, there’s so much that you don’t know about him.

ALEC: Well, then I plan to get to know him.

Alec's not denying that there are tons of things he doesn't know nor understand about Magnus, simply stating that he's not going to let that lack of knowledge make him treat Magnus as inherently "bad" or dangerous because of it.

He's going to take the time to get to know him - seek to better understand him - and he'll adapt his opinion of him based on what he sees, learns, finds, and experiences, rather than the opinion of people that have never bothered spending time with him, nor made any efforts to get to know him for who he is rather than what he could potentially do "as a warlock".

Better yet, he's going to start exploring the rest of the Downworld and getting to know their people as if he was experiencing their world and taking a look at them for the very first time, too.

When it comes to Magnus and the Downworld, Alec is choosing to leave himself open and trusting in the face of the unknown, rather than risking to unfairly treat them as threats to keep himself and fellow Shadowhunters "safe" from things they don't understand, yet are too fearful to go explore.

And, unlike Aldertree, he's wise enough to avoid treating anecdotal bad experiences, no matter how tragic or terrible they may be, as facts that can be generalized to all of the Downworld.

Just because the breaks of your car have malfunctioned and caused a crash doesn't mean that every car you'll climb in is ill-fated to have malfunctioning breaks and crash.

Alec is obviously not "innocent" all the way through. He grew up in a world of politics and is perfectly aware of the mind games and power plays that can and often occur there.

He was also emotionally and psychologically abused by parents that used his feelings to get what they wanted out of him (they may have thought they were doing it to protect their children from their past and the Clave, their behavior with their children was still controlling and abusive, even putting Jace, Isabelle, and Alec in the roles of the golden, invisible, and scapegoat child, respectively).

And that's sort of the point. Now that Alec has snapped out of it, he's very perceptive and typically good at noticing and identifying patterns of emotional manipulation, and/or when someone's motivations and goals go against the welfare of those they are supposed to be protecting.

And treating Downworlders as people also means avoiding to fall into the trap of idealizing them by believing that none of them ever would abuse their powers, among others.

Alec may have decided to start trusting and valuing Downworlders with an open heart, and utterly be refusing to see them as a threats based on their reputation and everything he doesn't know about them, but he still allows himself to have an opinion of each individual he meets.

Be they Shadowhunters, Downworlders, or Mundanes, if the individual's actions and motives appear to be self-serving, and/or threatens to bring harm to others, he won't trust nor support them.

But Magnus himself is the one that helped him realize that the way he'd been raised was wrong, and "snap out" of the manipulation and abuse he'd been the victim of. He's the one that inspired him to start questioning the "truths" he'd been blindly taught by the Clave, and to follow what he knew in his heart was right.

Magnus is the one that, while holding Alec accountable for his actions and letting him know when he didn't approve of his behavior, never tried to minimize what Alec was going through nor pretend that he was wrong for feeling the way he did.

In some ways, Alec is far from being innocent, but in others, he truly is.

He's never been in romantic relationship nor had sex with anyone before, he gets upset over the poor tunas being described as "fatty" on the menu of a sushi restaurant, he grew up being pretty sheltered from everything that exists outside of the Shadow World...

And, with Magnus, he doesn't need to pretend that he knows more than he does, nor hide any of that innocence from him, because he knows that he won't be judged for it, mocked about it or, especially, taken advantage of because of it.

He can afford to let his guards down and embrace that side of him that is filled with innocence and wonder because Magnus respects, values, and nurtures it.

What Magnus receives, in return, is the love and acceptation of someone that refuses to let other people's opinions or even blood connections dictate how he should see the world and others, takes the time to truly look at him, and openly tell him what he sees.

Alec doesn't care what warlocks marks are "supposed to mean" according to the Clave. Madzie's gills are cool-looking, so why shouldn't he compliment her on them?

Magnus' eyes are beautiful and he loves them, so why pretend otherwise?

"There is nothing ugly about you."

"I don't care who your parents are. I care who you are."

"You are the furthest thing from a greater demon."

After all, Alec's parents used to be Circle members, and he's the furthest thing from being Circle member, too.

All I can hope is that telling Magnus out loud that he shouldn't carry the burden nor shame of his parents' actions, or the fact that someone took advantage of him at his most vulnerable to try to turn him into someone he's not, is helping Alec truly internalize the fact that his family's crimes and mistakes aren't his to fix, and the way he'd treated or behaved with Downworlders before he realized how wrong his parents and the Clave were isn't something he should feel guilty about, either.

Take steps to make up for his mistakes and show proper responsibility for Downworlders who are under his people's protection, yes. Acknowledge what he did wrong and why it was wrong, absolutely.

But it doesn't make him a terrible person nor puts him at fault. He still deserves to be loved, cherished, put first, and be reminded of how beautiful he is, too.

I think what makes Malec such a beloved pairing is the amount of love and acceptance they have for each other, and their willingness to emotionally empathize despite their very different backgrounds and experiences.

Relationships do take efforts, but it is important not to overlook the type of efforts they require.

Relationships aren't about making the effort to change the other person to better suit yourself, nor to change yourself to become what the other person wants.

Because, while healthy relationships do, indeed, inspire people to change and (hopefully) become better; they do so by "unlocking" parts of ourselves that we didn't dare acknowledge, explore, develop, and/or express until then.

They do so by offering a supportive, loving, and safe environment for certain aspects of our personalities to hatch, take root, and/or grow.

But those are changes that come from within.

You can offer a romantic partner opportunities for change as much as you want, if they do not feel like they have anything to gain by embracing them (or worse, if their goal is to dominate and control the relationship), nothing good will come of it.

Those efforts, instead, are about learning to know and understand each other, finding the right balance between your partner's needs and your own, leaving your ego at the door while trying to resolve conflicts, admitting to being wrong when you are, showing appreciation and respect towards your partner for taking responsibility for their mistakes when it turns out that you are right, and seeking to come out of any conflict or difficult situation with the two of you having gained or learned something out of it, and with your partnership having ideally grown stronger from the experience.

Those efforts are about being willing to pool resources together to support and make each other stronger. They are about finding how to make your respective differences work in such a way that they complement each other, and accept that there are aspects of your lives where you'll need to agree to disagree.

Relationships take efforts, but they require healthy efforts.

And some of those efforts, thankfully, turn out to be more rewarding than anything else.

Because, while Magnus does have to make the effort of being mindful that he's Alec first romantic and sexual relationship, and he does have to make the effort of giving him space to explore, take risks, and set the pace for the both of them, he seems to be enjoying every single second of it.

Since Alec grew up in such a very sheltered environment, there are tons of things in the Mundane world - and even just life in general - that he's yet to have tasted, touched, seen, heard and experienced.

By loving him - by emotionally connecting with Alec - he gets the chance to re-experience many of the things he loves with him for the first time, too.

I have absolutely no trouble imagining Magnus bringing Alec to his favorite restaurants not so much for the food itself, but to drink in the sight of Alec tasting it and listening to him commenting on it - regardless of whether he ends up enjoying the same foods he does or not.

When they walk hand-in-hand in the streets of a foreign city, Alec is likely to pay attention to things that Magnus himself may never have noticed before, and appreciate details that he may have grown to take for granted over time, or stopped noticing after a while.

And, after having grown up with parents that - in Alec's own words - have drilled into him that he was never good enough, Alec has met someone that finds delight and joy in almost everything he does, and who treats him like he's the best thing that has ever happened to him in hundred of years!

Somehow, their respective needs and wants work together in a very beautiful and organic way.

They are different and they do come from different worlds, but their core values, personalities, ability to derive genuine happiness from their partner's own experience of it, and their desire to treat their relationship as a true partnership makes it work and allows them to overcome challenges together.

Magnus offered Alec a world he never thought he'd ever be allowed to have and experience.

Alec offered Magnus the key to opening his heart and fully emotionally connecting with all the wonders and joys of their world.

Magnus' powers is the magic he was born with, but Alec's love and innocence is the magic he chose to bring home with him and keep safe.

[percheduphere]

LET'S TALK ABOUT WHEN MOBIUS GETS EMOTIONALLY COMPROMISED

I rewatched S1 (in prep for a GIANT meta reviewing S1 and S2 together), and upon second viewing, I greatly appreciate the subtle and gradual progression of trust within Loki and Mobius' friendship. S1E2 is key to this. Tom and Owen's performances are impeccable because the energy between them changes scene by scene alongside the plotpoints.

From Mobius' end, I think I found the exact moment Mobius officially became emotionally compromised when it comes to Loki:

S1E2

The interaction that caused the final blow: 32:09 - 33:04

"Gentleman's bet? Let's play for pride."

"Let's go let's go let's go!"

"Extinction of the swallow? Is that a thing?"

"Got 'em!"

Racing against time cross-refrencing apocalypses with the presence of Kablooie. Spouting back and forth about their progress. Sassy remarks.

After a rocky start, they are now operating on the same mental wavelength. They're in rhythm. They are having so much fun together. They are smiling and laughing. Any moment in which a best friend is made feels exactly like this.

Not only was Loki right about his Apocalypse Theory, he also finds the exact date and location where Sylvie hides. Mobius is so proud of him! Look at these faces:

But we don't see how smitten Mobius is until he's with Renslayer in the scene that immediately follows. Sure, Mobius is excited about getting close to catching Sylvie, but he's even more excited about how well he and Loki work together. It's incredibly sweet.

I couldn't find gifs of the exact dialogue I wanted, so I transcribed it like the obsessive fool that I am:

RENSLAYER: And this is all based on a theory from the variant who just blew your previous mission?

MOBIUS: Yeah, he's doing great!

AND

MOBIUS: Come on. You don't usually see me this worked up, right? I'm exited! Im chomping at the bit!

When he says this, even Ravonna looks happy for him? I'm kind of sad, actually. You can tell in this scene that Ravonna and Mobius truly were close friends, once upon a time.

Then, they go to the locker room before deployment, and what does Mobius do?

He's so happy he gives Loki his daggers (a symbol of love), likely knicked and saved for who knows how long, hidden from Renslayer because this love is precious and he will not give it up. (@northrnfool you put this so well in another post!)

S1E2 has so much to unpack. Every scene is so layered, yet efficient and economic in effectively in propelling emotion and plot. I can't wait to word vomit on the whole series. Please forgive me.

[raayllum]

Gift Giving & Primal vs First Elves :: Or Going Off Into the Deep Lore Deep End

Remember that meta I compiled about Greek mythology, deceptive gift giving, and TDP? Yeah it's time to talk about the gift motif properly as well as some other deep lore things because these excellent thoughts ( @spicyviren, @kradogsrats, and @its-leethee) got the wheels in my brain spinning.

AKA an unknown amount of sectioned word vomit into the nature of magic, where it comes from, how deep magic operates, some gifts and motifs, and Leola, just a little.

Let's go.

Gift Motif

The gift motif is one that's a bit of a slowburn in TDP. While characters will often pass and hand over objects — tools, artefacts, metaphorical responsibilities or trust (handing over the egg, for example) — to one another, there's not a big emphasis on gifts in the first three seasons.

There are some, such as Callum's letter from Harrow (that he's given by Claudia once again initially as a goodbye), Ezran giving Bait to Barius in S3, and Rayla's family pendant, but most of these, as you've might already noticed, are contextualized within Goodbyes. Whether the gift motif will amount in arc 2 to escaping this "final gift" context remains to be seen, but that's how it tends to work in interpersonal relationships.

There is an element of peace offering in hoping that returning Zym — a gift and/or gesture of good will — will help usher in peace, but I think (as of now at least) that ties further into the series' theme of Reciprocal Exchange (the assassin mission being an eye for an eye vs olive branch for olive branch) than outright gift giving. (Although we will probably talk about Exchange and gift giving at some point because there is also a thematic tether there.)

However, there is one other thing that is more and more often referred to as a gift in Arc 1, and that's Magic. Specifically, dark magic.

Now, this actually isn't that dissimilar from what the Goodbye gifts amount to, either. In Harrow's letter, he gifts Callum the Key of Aaravos believing it to be a powerful magical relic of some kind; Rayla's pendant makes its way from Ethari to her to Callum, who then uses it for magical purposes; and Bait, as a glow toad, is connected to an arcanum himself.

I do think it's noteworthy though that in Arc 1, (dark) magic being a gift is emphasized upon, specifically because of these lines for Khessa:

Upon first watching it back in 2019, it made sense that dark magic would be referred to this way, even when I just thought maybe it was that humans had been given 'nothing,' as Claudia says. Dark magic is closely tied to ideas of theft and thievery — stealing magic from others to harness its power for yourself — and the series is deeply interested in concepts of ownership or who has 'true' ownership over something, in magic, a throne/crown, a price to pay, etc. This follows neatly into Arc 2 (for ex: why Karim seeking to steal the Sun Seed is a metaphorical dark path even if it didn't outright involve dark magic through Kim'Dael), which we'll build on later.

That said, given the depth of the knowledge at the Great Bookery that is open to Sunfire elves more than any other type of elf, and the information that Tales of Xadia and Ripples gives us...

While elves warned that if humans were meant to wield magic they would have been born with it, [Leola] gifted the wisest humans with secrets: the language of the dragons and the runes that shaped spells. With the unicorn’s gift, the most determined minds among the humans could finally harness primal magic.

It happened long ago, when humans had only just learned to hold fire in their hands without burning. They nurtured their precious primal flames secretly—in the dark of night, beneath shadows and shrouds—as cultivating its glow drew the eyes and ire of monsters [...] Humanity had been given something it was never meant to have. And so there came a calamity.

It makes it more than likely than, unlike other elves such as Lujanne or Ibis, Khessa had reason to believe/know that there used to be primal human mages in the past... and that it wasn't 'enough' for them ultimately, because they still hungered and developed (and were given?) dark magic. "Your kind could not be satisfied with what you were given" was about the rejection of primal magic from Leola (the unicorns) in favour of a darker kind that involves theft and "dirtying yourself" (5x08) with dark magic.

But at the same time, this complicates the Gift Giving motif of including not just dark magic, but being also for primal magic — for humans, at least.

And also for elves. (Ignoring how "great orb" is very similar to "great one" for now.)

Janai: It was a gift. But there's more to it than that. The great orb began as this. Karim: This is... a sun seed?

Now, the Great Orb being grown from a Sun 'literal' seed makes sense. We've known for a long time that in Xadia, "magic is everywhere. It's just part of the vibrance or spirit of things" (1x05). Primal magic naturally occurring in plants, animals, and elves likewise makes sense on that note. Just as not "many could bear the gruelling path of a rune mage," Karim cannot bear to have patience and faith in something that will only come to fruition centuries later.

That said, I raise the question: how functionally different is the Great Orb from say, a sun primal stone would hypothetically be? If primal stones and primal magic were gifts to humanity from unicorns — from creatures connected to the Star arcanum, for lack of a better understanding — then why not magic from Startouch (?) elves to other elves.

How do we know that all magic isn't simply a gift that was given once upon a time?

From the First Elves to the Primal Elves.

Primal vs First Elves

So what's the difference between First Elves and Primal elves?

Well we have a few pieces of lore:

1) Zubeia's status as a "heavenly majesty" (which we'll come back to in the next section) gives her authority to speak in the name of the first elves, who are effectively gods to humankind and/or Xadians ("Have our Gods died? / Where do the fabled Great Ones hide?" —the Epic of the Void

2) It seems that the First Elves are, as of now and for a while, exclusively in reference to what would otherwise be called Startouch elves, although the latter is seemingly a name that came later given Rayla's affirmation of "ancient legends". This is reaffirmed in Tales of Xadia's two lone mention of First Elves:

No group of elves presents a greater mystery than the Startouch elves. Sometimes called the First Elves, those bound to the Star primal are rumored to have made great marks on Xadia’s ancient history—but beyond story and legend, little real evidence is left to us today [...] Among the few extant records of Startouch elves are the Scrolls of the First Elves, now kept in the Great Bookery of Lux Aurea.

3) At a post-S2 con in 2019 (how's that for a far reach?) we got a timeline of the events of Xadia laid out for us. The description of the very first piece of history and era we know of goes as follows, with the Rise of Elarion happening 2000 years ago re: the Dragon Prince era ("The Return of Aaravos"):

The Era of the First elves is the first recorded era 5,000 years prior to the current era. Dragons and elves were not allied during this period. There were no distinct primal elves. This is an era before all that. Humans suffered during this period. 

—2019 con timeline

4) Justin and Aaron reaffirm this at the 2:30 ish minute mark of this video (a couple of months before even S3 was released) by reaffirming distinctly to Primal elves. Later (7:40-ish mark) we see this distinction reaffirmed again through the statement of, "The patterns have been that these primal based elves have grown cultures and civilizations that have become separate and differentiated from kind of whatever the early days were with the First elves were."

Okay, so there was 100% a time where there were only First Elves, and humans, and Primal elves as we knew them (maybe still with the hands and horns, but no arcanum? Or no singular, distinct arcanum) didn't exist. Why does this matter?

This is where the deep lore timeline gets tricky, as we don't know precisely when 1) humans received magic and 2) at what stage the First Elves / Great Ones / Startouch elves 'left' Xadia, only that they did, apparently, when Elarion (the human city) needed help: "Elarion, unworthy whelp / Wept as the stars turned black the sky / They donned their masks / They turned their backs / And left Elarion to die". Why abandon the city (beyond indifference/cruelty as Aaravos would likely claim), who knows.

However, we can assume the timeline looks something like this:

Era of the First Elves

Primal elves (and presumably archdragons *) are crafted / develop into being, whatever that means

Humans are magic-less and are having a bad time

Unicorns / Leola extend sympathy despite the fact that the First Elves tell her not to (Book One: Novelization / Tales of Xadia)

Humans have primal magic (Ripples / Tales of Xadia)

This attracts negative attention, consolidated in Elarion ("the stars she asked their light to cast / and stop the dragons’ fiery might" / "as cultivating its glow drew the eyes and ire of monsters. Eventually, for the audacity of their fire, they were hunted")

Elarion asks for help and the Stars leave

Aaravos, the last star — presumably already Fallen from the First Elves — gives them dark magic under the guise of protection even though it will inevitably help him (i.e. give him the ability to possess people)

Dark magic replaces primal magic as the primary form for humans

Tension and violence escalates (unicorns are hunted to near extinction). Sol Regem is removed as King of the Dragons

Under Dragon Queen Luna Tenebris, the daughter of an elven leader suggests the Judgement of the Half-Moon, causing for humans to be banished rather than eradicated, and the continent split in two

Again, nothing too crazy / not too much we haven't already known or guessed at for a while.

But like I said, I'm gonna propose two theories, so bear with me:

Theory #1: What is Deep Magic?

The First Elves engaged with what we're gonna call Deep or Old Magic, for lack of a better term. There can be an assumption at times that this magic would be more 'pure' or less 'diluted' than dark magic or even the primal magic we've seen on screen. However, I think that's less than likely. Dark magic is often times a bad path for good outcomes, and primal magic can be a 'good' magic for bad outcomes (the blood freezing spell, for example).

While dark magic is a more textually malevolent magic system and primal magic is more true neutral — able to be used as a tool and a source of connection for the user — I don't think this necessarily means that Deep Magic is inherently enlightening (we see with the Ocean arcanum and S5 that knowledge can be an immense burden) or that it's on the opposite end of the spectrum and is outright benevolent.

What, then, am I suggesting Deep Magic to be? Well, we have some clues likewise from the same old interview post-s2 that we haven't had much basis to (potentially) understand until now, in which it's stated:

Deeper magic and deeper gifts that the original beings received [...] practical, usable, powerful magic is drawn from the six primal sources, right? But there is this idea that there's this earlier, less differentiated power kind of magic that's deeper and more - I don't kind of want to say what all of them are. It's not that important now, it has more to do with the history of beings and their interactions with each other. But Aaravos cares about some of this stuff. The best I can say is that one of them's Power — but well, what does that mean?

The six primal sources — potentially just five (hence why only 5 gemstones seem to occur naturally in nature, and Star seemingly doesn't) — are all based around physical, somewhat tangible principles. Earth, Ocean, Sun (fire/light), Sky (wind/weather) are perhaps the most tangible, with only Moon dipping into something into something more metaphysical: illusions and questioning the nature of reality, the nature of death, etc. However, I'd argue that the Moon arcanum's emphasis on death still makes it something that is particularly important to creatures who are mortal (but more on that later).

What I am arguing for is then, therefore, that Deep Magic is magic drawn from Concepts and Ideas > tangible things found in nature or parts of other magical creatures.

Three concepts, to be exact: (translated dark magic screenshot from Cartoon Universe spells reversed).

Zubeia: He chose as his instruments those who had strong hearts and strong minds, but who had an insatiable thirst and fascination with magic (power).

Three quasar diamonds, three deep magic concepts. Heart, Mind, Power.

("To know something truly and deeply, you must know it with your head, hand, and heart. Mind, body, and spirit." / "She laid before me her scales, her blindfold, and her sword, and told me to choose.")

Now, I don't know if it's these three concepts exactly — I could Truth, or Justice, or something like that — or even if it's three. But given what little we know about Deep magic thus far and how much the series' likes its threes, I think that's the likeliest number and combination.

We've known for a while that there's something weird with the connection between dark magic, spells that use blood, and 'star' magic. We know it's unlikely that Aaravos being able to possess people who have used dark magic was just a happy accident discovered after humans started using it. We know that when Callum is offered the dark magic version of the cube in his dreams, the symbol is blood red: "You can have unlimited power." And that dark magic "became the key that unlocked a place of power for humans in Xadia" (Tales of Xadia).

So what if dark magic stems from the vein of Deep magic that's taken from the concept of Power? What if when Aaravos offered his pawns "unlimited" Power, or when Kpp'Ar accused Viren of (potentially using star magic) "making the same choice you always made: the one that gives you Power," they meant it?

Alternatively, this could mean that most other Startouch elves — their longevity, their indifference — comes from the vein of Mind and subsequent intellectual detachment? Enough intelligence and reason not to hunger for more (Power), but not enough compassion and empathy to sympathize with others (Heart).

And it would also tie into Leola being unique among her own kind for her heart taking pity on the humans, and giving them primal magic — perhaps in the vein of Heart, if we're keeping things consistent — and why love ("To know something truly and deeply [...] I love you with all of myself, and I always will" / "To love is simply to know this: the tides are true as the ocean is deep") has been consistently tied to Callum unlocking arcanums. The "Narrative of Strength (power)" vs "Narrative of Love" being even more literal than we thought.

This wouldn't be too out of line since Moon arcanum philosophy already borrows heavily from Plato's idea of the forms/reality (Plato's allegory of the cave, anyone?) and the forms basically mean "your imagined ideal of the object in your mind is going to be more perfect than any tangible, 'real' version of the object could ever be." That being applied to living beings who are literally in the sky would track a certain amount, in addition to the idea that however primal magic is set up in Xadia right is "the whole world is like a giant primal stone; sky magic is all around us, and it's also in me, with every breath we take." But I digress.

With the distinction of Deep Magic as 1) separate and a sea that flows into the primal as well as 2) older and earlier than primal magic, now onto the next theory:

Theory #2: First elves and the Archdragons?

Now admittedly this one is more speculative since beyond knowing 1) the First elves = what we'd call Startouch elves, 2) the rest of them except Aaravos 'left' Xadia a while ago, and 3) the aforementioned possible 'Mind' deep magic thing, we very quickly run out of set knowledge into full blown speculation. Beyond

With that in mind, I wanna talk about the... weirdness, I suppose, between the Archdragons / draconic royal family and the First Elves.

There's a few notes to this: we know that Ancient Draconic is the language of primal magic, indicating that dragons existed and presumably had primal magic before elves did, and that elves had to be given that linguistic knowledge at least to a certain degree.

Then we also have the way Zubeia is referred to being mirrored with the way she describes Aaravos later:

Likewise, the one person/creature we've seen referred to as a god outside the Epic of the Void poem is Avizandum by Harrow (bonus points for the game motif of "entire armies have fallen like toys" because of him):

Bloodmoon Huntress also asserts that from an elven point of view (or at least Lain and Tiadrin, and presumably Runaan, too) that "Dragons are the lifeblood, the very core of Xadia" and generally assumed that dragons have the most powerful connection to their individual primal sources.

So I'd be willing to wager (esp since Sol Regem is at least 1,2000+ years old) that Archdragons at least once upon a time had been contemporaries of the First Elves if not peers. What and why that connection exists and how relevant it is for today, I don't know, but I do think there's something there, especially since the one example we have of a First Elf-Dragon relationship in Aaravos, Avizandum, and Zubeia, was perceived to be positive somewhat on all sides — a matter of trust on his end (in order to be "betrayed") and a matter of reverence and importance on theirs; "admired and loved by all" / "you meant something to him".

There is also something to be said for the Archdragons being the most powerful embodiment of the primal sources (alongside maybe some rare and noteworthy elves, like Queen Aditi) still being "unable to risk a direct confrontation" with only one singular and Fallen Startouch elf. What would a whole slew of them at the height of their power look like? (And yet it is implied that the Nova Blade is "ivory draconic" so... maybe you just have to get a First Elf close enough to the mouth to be consumed / bitten? Or perhaps the Nova Blade is made from the tooth/claw of a 'Star' arcanum dragon.)

TLDR; it's looking more and more like Startouch elves as we understand them and First Elves in generally are — while emotive and feeling the way humans and elves are — something very different from anything else we've seen thus far in terms of knowledge and power skill, and that distinction is only going to be made more and more apparent as the story goes on.

Theory #3: Where do we go from here?

So if Deep Magic is distinct from Primal, and is distinct from 2/3 kinds of Deep Magic in dark magic (derived from 5-primal and Power deep magic thoughts)... where do we go from here, magically speaking?

Well, the important thing to note is that the story has given us some thematic clues. Aaravos is concerned with exile and power, both things we see thematically most represented by human characters (with some elven exceptions like Karim and Kim'Dael). The other Star touch elves are very on brand for "Xadian exile" as their favourite punishment as well as extreme isolationism ("I knew I had to be strong alone" etc). Therefore, whatever answer we give Magically also has to reconcile these issues from a thematic and character based standpoint.

It seems like a switch of where people are concentrating energy — for Startouch elves and humans — needs to have a drastic shift to one of the other veins/concepts of deep magic that will hopefully heal the rifts. If Aaravos is Power (humans) and the others are 'Mind' (Xadian indifference/isolation and banishment) for lack of a better idea, then subverting that binary and shifting more to a third 'Love' path seems to be very on brand for TDP. Holding both at the same time but being guided by a higher principle of peace and harm reduction is what Ezran's 4x03 speech is all about, after all.

Something something both Xadia and magic and the First Elves being reunited with Xadia / humanity and elvenkind as TDP's endgame, something something.

Other Gift Giving Thoughts

The other thing I wanna talk about now that everything else is laid out is how gifts are Given, in TDP. We see time and time again relationships and magic systems being framed on the idea of whether they are giving, taking, both in a bad way or in a good way. There seems to be two main indicators for gift giving, therefore, either that in the receiver is worthy, or that the exchange is going to be reciprocal.

At its best, a gift works as intended.

Humans (and elves?) are given primal magic and generally use it for exploration and to care for themselves / one another The sun seed is given to the Sunfire elves, but they must nurture it. Callum gives Rayla her father's bow and she uses it to protect them. Callum achieves enlightenment and understanding of him and is rewarded with primal magic twice, even if the Ocean in particular is a bit murkier than he'd probably like. Gifts and belongings are relinquished or restored for freedom, for hope, for peace.

Here we have to wonder if Leola's Last Wish reconciles both the Goodbye gift motif and the gift of Magic motif, possibly resulting in the gift of the sun seed or more likely something to do with primal magic / alleviate the fallout of dark magic's consequences.

For example, to get an answer from Rex Igneous — a seeming wealth of knowledge — you have to give him a worthy gift that is also a sacrifice of some kind, according to Nath'an.

However, Ezran points out the major flaw in this line of thinking, as "We offered gifts that meant a lot to us, but the truth is, they don't mean anything to you." Not everyone is going to value the same thing or think the same thing is worth the price that was paid.

We see this interpersonally most with the mage fam ("Maybe the world would be better off without magic" from Soren, whose life was saved with it) and with Rayla and Callum (as Rayla's gift of sacrifice by leaving is something Callum did not want and rightfully did not receive well, alongside her moonstone pendant). Again: what is defined as worthy, or worthiness, is in the eye of the beholder.

Just like one of the initial thoughts that inspired this meta, Khessa asserts that dark magic is a magic that "takes" > being reciprocal for both parties, nevermind a gift. The irony, however, runs a bit deeper, as Aaravos thinks the same of his fellow stars:

But the stars kept from them one secret still: that their first lesson—patience—was not a gift of the stars at all. You see, patience is a lesson the humans taught themselves. No, the stars do not know patience, for they have no need for it. The stars want for nothing, and take all to their liking.

And we see this idea of a 'false gift' show up time and time again in the series. Nyx pretends to offer passage but actually wants to steal Zym; Rayla's act of love in leaving is a curse upon Callum's heart and wellbeing; dark magic itself is a false trade of sorts, given how unevenly it tips scales in Aaravos' favour and how much it ruins both the environment and body of its caster.

[The elven thief Lasair] never saw the precious blossoms fade and turn to cold ashes when exposed to the dawn. They never learned their gift was perceived as a curse, not a trade. 

—Tales of Xadia

Kim'Dael goes to Queen Aditi under false pretences ("The Queen's Mercy") but the gift that Aditi gives her is nothing good at all:

What pretty bauble, she wondered, had she tricked the queen into forging as a token of protection? What could be powerful enough to ward away the wrath of dragons?

Just as humans sought the stars' help to protect them from the ire of the dragons, Kim'Dael sought Aditi's. And just as Aaravos offered them a false magic that would protect and ultimately trap/destroy then, so does Aditi, with magic that doesn't seem to be entirely dark or primal:

“But know this: the binding around your neck—it is made with magic not unlike your own. It is a magic that demands, that takes."

A form of magic even maybe that demands sacrifice for that kind of Power.

You could almost say it's something Deeper.

Conclusion

Hope you enjoyed going completely off the rails with me, and that this long (winded) post got you thinking! I'll probably do a followup discussing the implications of what we have here for potential Laurelion-Aaravos later. In the meantime, take the fruits of my labour, and spin your own hamster wheels if you'd like.

[mx-pokirby]

(Apologies, this will maybe be gross. Use your Blocked Words lists)

"Hearing rushing water makes you have to pee" "Putting a sleeping person's hand in warm water makes them pee" "If you have a dream about water/peeing, you are pissing your bed"

Idk if it's just me but wtf were people & TV on about when I was growing up?

I won't lie, I probably took longer than other kids to finally stop wetting the bed (/using pull-ups) as a kid. It wasn't stress related or whatever else TV suggests as a cause, it's just subconscious muscle control and I was a very deep/heavy sleeper.

Anyways I remember *never* understanding that list of tropes when I was still a bed wetter. I could recognize the tropes when they happened, I just thought (and still do) that they're stupid and unrealistic.

I'm fairly certain that in the years after we stopped wetting the bed, not only have we had a fair handful of dreams where we go to the bathroom for a part; but usually it involves *uncontrollable* pissing, just absolutely inhuman volumes of liquid, toilet overflowing and I can barely stand up and it's all disgusting like I'm projectile vomiting upside down and I'm panicking and just want it to be over.

And then I wake up completely dry, no fear of any alternative, and not even the urge to rush to the bathroom. Just a dream like any other. (Sensationally, upon waking, not in contents)

Maybe there's *something* one can read into with these dreams, but the message ain't that I need to use the can.

Last night we dreamt we got a UTI, and couldn't stop pissing bloody water for like a solid 4(?) minutes. Woke up. Dry. Obviously. There's no plot twist. Maybe I'm just too autistic to understand this fucking "piss meta" you've all invented.

[eisforeidolon]

The amount of pure insecure NO U!!! just bleeding off that post sure is something. Poor ol' dotty as hell Dot just can't admit such inept attempts at a reverse uno are not going to convince anyone who isn't already eyeballs deep in the cult. Hell, I'm not even sure she's convincing herself at this point.

We respect most of the supporting cast just fine. We just recognize they were in a proportional fraction of the show and lack authority to speak about it beyond their very limited involvement. Especially if they're trying to speak over or contrary to others with more authority (or if they constantly change their stories). Unlike Dot and her ilk who want to pretend Jared and Jensen don't have any right to speak on their characters or the overarching themes, despite being involved in every single episode of the show and being the only ones on the cast regularly allowed to make changes. No matter how much or how little of the show they were in, only people who tell us what we want to hear have the right to speak about it! You don't say.

We understand that hating any individual character or actor has sweet fuckall to do with media literacy, just personal preference and (over)investment. Dot and her weirdo crew want to make hating Jared/Sam while worshiping Misha/Cass and their fanon Dean/blowup doll version of Jensen some kind of righteous moral stance everyone has to agree with because ... wahhhh my ship!!!

Yes, we are the actual fans of the tv show, Supernatural. We know the show was about the brothers before everyone else because it's right there out in the open, obvious as hell. The arcs that actually existed in the show revolved around that premise, season after season, and the finale hammered it home. There's no projection or interpretation required, it's literally right fucking there. This is the CW's Supernatural not highbrow literature, erudition my ass.

They're only fans of their own imaginations, which would be fine if they didn't insist that was actually the show despite, you know, the show. Forget the obvious thematic arcs smacking us in the face, forget what the characters blatantly said and did over and over! No, no, no, there must be super secret hidden clues to the REAL meaning in there for the REAL fans! True understanding of the show could only come from those who furiously wrote thousands upon thousands of words of meta trying to interpret a romantic arc into existence by sheer force of word vomit from random minutiae! Just because it never once was part of the actual narrative doesn't mean it wasn't totes real! When they're trying to pretend that's not all they care about, they insist the bare couple of times in fifteen years characters said family is more than blood was totally an arc more central than the brothers relationship by the end - you only have to ignore almost literally everything the brothers actually did and the vast majority of what they said. It was there! It was! Network sabotage! Homophobia! Help, help, I'm being oppressed by a tv show not being rewritten to my personal specifications! I'm a REAL fan of the show, I deserve to dictate what it's about! But it totally was about what I say it was about! There is absolutely no contradiction here!

Which doesn't even get into the bizarre creative reinterpretation acrobatics of insisting Misha was a lead because he was on some magazine covers sometimes. Sure, he didn't have the screentime or the billing but maGAzInE cOvERs! So even if he constantly changes his story, that's more valid than anything Jared ever says! They also listen to Jensen! Just because they creatively reinterpret or selectively ignore what he says, mostly to pretend he means literally the opposite of what he's actually saying, that doesn't mean they don't! (Either that or they insist he's a poor backwards yokel idiot who will soon Learn To Do Better.)

We have the show. We don't have to pretend huge swaths of it don't exist or have secret hidden meanings directly contradicting the explicit ones. We have J2, who don't constantly contradict their own stories about the show and their characters' places in it.

Hellers and other malcontents like Dot have literally nothing but projection, reinterpretation, bonkers conspiracy theories, and Misha's desperation for money. You just need a super secret decoder ring and it becomes very clear ... that they need to get a fucking grip already, it's been four years!

HAHAHAHA The funniest post I've seen in days. "We have no rights to claim to be a fan." Says a heller, someone who only watched for a non existent ship, also someone who hates the lead.

This is another one of those, "how dare we disrespect the loser extras" while they actively hate on the lead. Sit the fuck down and shut up. You have zero rights here, Dottie. It was always about the brothers, the only one who's erasing the actual themes are you. By the way, we're allowed to dislike any character we want. It's like this with every show. There are characters people love, characters people hate. And what we dislike about them, is the actors have become ungrateful brats for the amount of episodes they were in.

So stay mad, we'll continue to dislike them. Someone who hates the show has no business calling us "not a fan." This is rich. 😂😂😂