#And her relationships with Batgirl

[sbd-laytall]

I'm living for the utter exasperation from Steph in regards to Damian.

Batgirl (2009) #17

[farshootergotme]

Anyone else thinks DC should've made Dick and Barbara's relationship be more like Dipper and Wendy's from Gravity Falls? As in "I had childhood crush on an older girl who's now just one of my closest friends"?? Just me? Okay...

[casscainmainly]

Race and Perception in Batgirl (2000)

This is a companion piece to my two gender posts on Batgirl (2000). There are many interesting takes on race and Cassandra Cain, but most focus on whether she is a 'racist' character or not. This post is not about that, though I think my stance is fairly clear given what my blog is about. Rather than retreading the same ground of whether the conception of Cass is racist (something I might tackle later, because some arguments are flat-out wrong), I want to look at how race actually plays out in Batgirl (2000).

This post focuses on how Cass' Asian identity influences her views on perception, beauty, and agency. As usual, feel free to disagree as I'm not an ethnic or Asian studies expert.

Mask of the Batgirl

We all know and love Cass' iconic Batgirl costume. Besides its distinctive total-blackness, the most interesting aspect is the full-face mask. She is the only Batgirl to cover her face completely - when Stephanie takes over, one of the first things she does is rip the bottom half off.

Skin and external perceptions don't mean the same things to Barbara and Steph as they do to Cass. Cass' entire life is fraught with not just the male gaze, but the White male gaze - her father, David Cain, films her on video tapes, and Bruce later views these tapes (importantly, Cass herself does not get to). These tapes symbolise how her appearance does not belong to herself, but to external White perceptions.

In issue #1, Batman says the following:

"You... are me." Here, Bruce posits that the full-face mask makes Cass more like Bruce. It functions to hide their racial and gendered differences. By covering her face completely, Bruce (and Cass) tacitly suppress her race. Once again, White men are controlling the way she is perceived, something that began with David Cain and continues with Bruce.

Interiority and Exteriority

A common Asian stereotype is that Asians are mechanical - they have no interiority. The common conceptions of Asians as STEM majors and being emotion-deficient all come from this core belief, that Asians are utilities for White people. For Cass, this belief manifests from Babs, Bruce, and David Cain:

Babs says it's hard to care without knowing what's "going on in her head." She cannot connect with Cass' exterior, and finds it hard to imagine what her interior is like. Even worse, Bruce and Cain both argue that Cass belongs to/is like them, almost treating her as property- they reject Cass' own interiority and project theirs onto her, using her as a tool to extend their own identities.

In the early issues, Cass doesn't have an internal monologue. This somewhat reinforces what Babs, Bruce, and Cain all believe about her interiority. However, in issue #5 a White man gifts her the ability to think in language:

This plot point serves to demonstrate Cass' interiority to the reader, but it is another example of a White person choosing for Cass. She didn't get a choice to be raised without language, and she doesn't make the decision to receive it. Both externally and internally, White people control her narrative.

The Shiva Solution

After her newfound language skills impact her ability to fight, Cass encounters Lady Shiva, her future surprise mother. Shiva is the first one to ever acknowledge Cass' race.

Unlike Cain or Bruce, Shiva doesn't say 'you're like me'; she says, "we're a lot alike." She doesn't map herself onto Cass, but finds something they both have in common. By naming Cass' race ("in terms of our coloring") and framing their similarities in this way, Shiva affirms Cass' difference from White people, while providing an alternative solace: Asian solidarity.

Shiva gives Cass her first real choice. It's not exactly a good choice, and it's somewhat coloured by White perceptions (the idea of 'perfection'), but it's still the first major thing Cass gets to decide for herself. She even frames Shiva's path as opposing "Batman's method;" it's the beginning of her path away from White control, towards racialised agency.

It's no surprise, then, that Shiva is the one that helps Cass over her death wish. Not Bruce, not Babs, but Shiva - a literal and metaphorical link to her heritage.

Another Stephanie Brown Segment

As an integral part of Cass' sexual and gendered awakening, Stephanie of course plays a role in Cass' understanding of race. Moving from Puckett's run into issue #38, Stephanie and Cass have this iconic conversation on the rooftop:

I've written before about how this marks the beginning of Cass' foray into gender and sexuality, but this scene has a different meaning when viewed from a race angle. Stephanie is the quintessential American girl, with blonde hair and blue eyes; additionally, she's sexually and romantically experienced. Cass' own Asian appearance, then, may be causally linked to her lack of experience.

When Stephanie comes back as Robin, we have this moment:

Cass is unable to be perceived as non-threatening, helpful, or friendly, while Steph achieves all this with ease. Beyond the differences in temperament (Cass is definitely the spooky scary type), it's also the difference in costuming - Robin's bright colours and majority-unmasked face make for a friendlier appearance than Batgirl. Once again, Cass is unable to control other people's perceptions of her.

It's notable that the majority of Steph's appearances throughout Batgirl end with her leaving Cass on a rooftop. This happens in issues #38, #53, #54, and of course War Games. Their relationship is consistently tenuous, and I think this contributes to Cass feeling like she'll never belong in Steph's world.

Tai'Darshan Turns the Tide

At this point Cass is in pretty bad straits: no one has ever shown romantic attraction to her, Steph is mad at her, and she still doesn't have a full understanding of her race (bar Shiva, she's encountered no other Asians). This feeling of disenfranchisement from both the White and Asian worlds is a very common experience among third culture Asian kids, particularly mixed-race Asians.

Then comes Tai'Darshan, the second major Asian person Cass interacts with.

He is the first person to show romantic interest in her, and asks to "see [her] face." He wants to see her interiority and her skin - Cass' Asian features are now described as something attractive, something worth seeing.

Where Cass is creeped out by Conner's gaze on the boat, she's not similarly affected by Tai'Darshan. She's beginning to understand racialised dynamics, and finding comfort within other Asians rather than her majority-White friends and family.

Both during the fight with Tai'Darshan and the later fight with Bruce, Cass wears these eye-cut-out masks. The eyes are both the site of perception and the site of Asian racialisation, as the most identifiably 'Asian' part of people's faces. By wearing these kind of masks, she's allowing others to perceive her race, reclaiming racialised perception as an act of choice rather than something imposed onto her.

Choosing

In the final arc of Batgirl (2000), Cass sets out to find Shiva. The decision is spurred by this conversation, where Brenda explicitly asks about Cass' race. Everything has been building up to this acknowledgment of Cass' fuzzy origins, a recognition that the uncertainty around her race impacts her ability to achieve full self-actualisation.

Cass rejects Batman's help on the matter, instead going to Onyx:

By going with Onyx, a Black woman, instead of Bruce, Cass is starting on her journey towards racial solidarity beyond Asian communities.

The abrupt ending to Batgirl (2000) kinda cuts off any definitive arc, but I actually think what we have already paints a solid picture. There definitely is a lot more room for explorations into Chinese culture (Spirit World kinda covers this), Cass' relationship to White proximity, interactions with other Asian characters and more. I think her Asian identity deserves more of a spotlight, and I'm hoping more comics in the future delve into it.

[lilaclilyroses]

This could be a reverse Robin au but that’s not my intention. I want Steph to be angry and powerful!!! Im thinking that after Black Mask kills Stephanie Brown she is resurrected by her father who stole a vial of liquid from the Lazarus Pit. Instead of this being an act of love, Author Brown uses this to get her to work with him. He says he forgives her for working with Batman, that it’s even a blessing in disguise because she knows inside information. Stephanie pretends to work with her father for a while while she gets stronger and gains allies. She eventually kills Roman Sionis for revenge and takes his place as the Black Mask. She throws her father back in jail with her new found power and names herself as one of the top crime lords in Gotham city. Stephanie is sick of Batman and his rules, and Tim Drake who originally pushed his superior morals on her. The Batfamily for never really believing in her, who never gave her the tools to succeed. Her father who took advantage of her at every turn and made her life a living hell. Her mom who never thought she was worth getting sober for. This whole damn city for never accepting help. Well Stephanie will never let herself be hurt by anyone again, this time she’s made sure of it.

[haveihitanerve]

I believe fully, in my heart of hearts, that Barbara Gordon is one of the only people who gets a genuine “thank you.” from both Batman and Bruce Wayne, because with Dick the thank you’s are unspoken, a subtle nod, a little hug, nothing overly major, and as he adopted more and more kids bruce became more emotional constipated (#not at all how character development and growth are supposed to be cough cough dc cough cough but whatever) so they don't really get thank yous they get more grunts of pride/acknowledgement/thanks but with barbara he always says thank you, whether its a soft, relieved little ‘thank you.’ after she gives him life saving info for his kids, or if its a gruff ‘thank you.’ after she proves him wrong but helps more people, or a standard ‘thank you.’ for giving him information and locations on villains. And everytime she responds with either a soft, comforting, “not a problem B. I got your back.” or a cheery, obnoxious, “you are welcome!” or even just a mutter of “you wouldn't be able to tie your shoes without me” that bruce pretends he cant hear. 

[winged-bat]

early stephcass both feeling a sense of inadequacy to each other is something that can be so personal actually

[ronniesart]

being a cass fan is 100% believing that the cass story in Detective Comics #1084 is setting up for a cass solo (please DC)

[necrotic-nephilim]

saw you wrote reverse robins too, it always has a thing for me. what's your headcanon about it? any particular ship you like?

oh i ADORE Revers Robins, i wish i got the chance to write it more! i think there's something interesting in the challenge of flipping these characters and trying to see how they would change in each other's arcs. How Tim would approach being Red Hood, how Damian would approach being Nightwing, etc. it's all so interesting to me. some headcanons i have are

i think, making Damian the oldest and forcing him to mature on his own with just Bruce is fascinating. bc it's going to make a *very* emotionally closed-off Bruce. the bulk of Damian opening up happens when he's Dick's Robin, so to make it just him and Bruce destabilizes a lot of that. Bruce chose Dick, but if Damian's the oldest, it's likely he didn't choose Damian, he got stuck with him. which adds to their dynamic and imo makes Damian a bit more stunted in the way Dick is, in that being raised solely by Bruce can make one. emotionally constipated. i do think Damian would be forced to mature a lot faster and would be a very quiet person.

i've mentioned this in a post talking about JayTim in RR AUs, but Tim as Red Hood would be *far* more calculating, imo. i think a lot of the emotion of Jason's actions would be stripped from it. even if you make Tim a killer (such as when Tim is Savior in a future universe) he's never going to be a "heads in a duffel bag" killer. he's going to be planned and methodical about it. (like how he almost killed Boomerang) half of his plans would be hidden from Bruce and i think part of the game for Tim would just be seeing how much Bruce even figures out.

replacing Tim with Jason instead of vice versa is interesting, bc it forces Jason to enter the role of Robin with a lot more caution. i think his backstory still works in a RR situation, street kid Bruce just kinda plucked from nowhere and called Robin. bc Bruce is grieving, and this if the first kid whose mischief sort of reminds him of Tim. but bc there's a dead Robin before Jason, it means he's going to be treated with much more care. and his anger regarding entering a Red Robin role could be interesting bc he is known for his anger and i do think he'd be far more violent about the transition, as opposed to Tim's self isolation route.

for RR, i always always prefer that it's Damian who adopts Dick. usually i like it best as Damian adopting Dick when Bruce is "dead", but i think it also works if Bruce is alive when Dick comes into the picture. it'd make for a stunted relationship bc of how closed off Damian is while *wanting* to do right by this kid, or at least do better than Bruce did. and i think Damian as Dick's mentor figure would make how Dick confronts his anger very different.

as for Steph, in any case where i do a Reverse Robins, mentally know i'm also picturing it with a Reverse Batgirls. and to keep from Cass just not moving around, i'd include Helena's time as Batgirl and thus, Steph is Oracle, Cass is Huntress, Helena is Black Bat, and Babs is Spoiler. which, makes canon ships like TimSteph and DickBabs a lot of fun. also you have a lot of curious things to explore by flipping Cass and Helena's moral codes under their vigilante titles. Cass as an outsider to the Batfam instead of being under Bruce and Babs' wings? could *really* force her to do unsavory things. and Helena with more support could be a bit softer around the edges. honestly, i could make a whole post about Reverse Batgirls too bc i think most RR AUs don't tend to address the women in it, which is terrible. gimme Oracle!Steph. and with Spoiler!Babs, if you play with Babs brother that rarely exists being the person she becomes Spoiler to stop, that could be super fun.

as for my favorite RR ships: i'm a suck for RR!TimDami. i think it's just bc of all ships, that one tends to play with the AU the most, in my experience? which is *so* fun bc Nightwing!Damian and Red Hood!Tim struggling to reconcile is everything. i devour every fick. i'm also particular to JayTim, just bc i think Jason as Robin seeing Red Hood!Tim would *immediately* be too interested for his own good as he copes with his anger of being replaced as Robin. but seriously any RR ship if the worldbuilding is done well will always draw me in. i just adore seeing how ppl explore filling in the logical loopholes and if backstories need to be adjusted or not and how personalities would naturally change in the situation. it's endlessly fascinating to me.

[gothamite-rambler]

"They thought I wouldn't figure it out... that's hilarious," Babs said, typing.

The elevator door to Barbara, also known as the Oracle's hideout slid open. Barbara turned, puzzled about who might be dropping by, but her confusion quickly melted into a smile upon recognizing a familiar face.

Barbara (sweet tone): Hey, Rose!

Rose Wilson walked confidently toward Barbara, a big grin on her face.

Rose: Hi there! How’ve you been?

Barbara (relaxed): Oh, you know, the usual. Still in this wheelchair, got myself a new pair of glasses, and I even snagged a free drink at the local café.

Rose chuckled lightly.

Rose: That’s great to hear. Sorry to crash the party, but Red Hood and I are looking to team up for a… mission. We’ll be traveling from Gotham and will be out of town for a few days.

Barbara (adjusting her glasses): Oh, what’s the mission about?

Rose: We’re tracking a cargo ship loaded with cocaine and looking to take down a mob boss. We’ll be staying at our usual hotel for these ops—you know, the one where it’s cheap!

Barbara (suspicious): Mm-hm…

Barbara tapped her chin thoughtfully while glancing at her computer. Rose shifted her gaze nervously.

Barbara (taking a breath): All right, I’ve sent Bruce an email about you two teaming up. He’ll grumble, but I’ve got your back.

Rose: That’s fantastic! You’re the best! We leave tonight and should be back in four days.

Barbara: Wow, four days… staying in the same room, sharing a bed?

Rose: Most likely; the hotel offers better rates for one-bed rooms, but trust me, we’re not planning anything sexual. This is strictly a drug bust.

Barbara nodded, her expression inscrutable.

Barbara: Got it. Stay safe and don’t forget to bring me back a keychain.

As Rose made her way back to the elevator, Barbara turned her attention back to her computer, a smirk forming on her lips.

Barbara: Just remember, don’t be rough with Jason, and use protection.

Rose: I made sure to pack—

Rose froze, her cheeks flushing pink as she recognized Barbara's implication.

Rose: Um… what kind of protection are you talking about?

Barbara held up two fingers.

Barbara: Both kinds. Don’t worry, your secret’s safe with me.

Rose sighed in relief.

Rose: Thanks! Jason sent me up here because he was worried you might see through his lies. Is my poker face really that bad?

Barbara: Nah, not at all. I can just tell. You both look happy together, and I’m all for a happy relationship. And don't worry, Bruce has no clue so you guys can keep bonking in private.

Barbara laughed making Rose roll her eyes with a smile.

Rose waved goodbye to the hero then stepped into the elevator. As the elevator descended, she leaned back against the wall, silent for a moment, then broke into laughter while shaking her head.

Rose: I think I’m really going to like his family.

[welcometogrouchland]

Babygirl I can concieve of stephcass dynamics you couldn't even imagine (arospec Cass not understanding why "probably bi but has a job so she doesn't have time to think about that" Steph apparently needs a man (she doesn't, it would just be nice) and doesn't want to platonically settle down with cass in their old age)

[sbd-laytall]

God, he's so insane for this.

Batgirl (2000) #27

[horsechestnut]

Villain Cass Arc bad, but I do think it's very cute that she is immediately like "I want Tim to be my partner. Surely he'll understand, he's brother shaped :)"

[casscainmainly]

CASS PLATONIC SOULMATE!?? people would say steph and i totally see it but like, stephcass shipper over here soo... yeah! any thoughts xo?

Honestly I'm not sure!! Canon-wise Steph is definitely the platonic soulmate, but only because they refuse to make it romantic. Excluding her (because I'm holding out on a very small hope they will confirm StephCass), I don't actually think Cass has many close friends.

We've seen her friendships with Clayface in Tynion's 'Tec run (which was great, but very much contained in that run), and Big Barda in BoP (not long/entrenched enough yet). Otherwise she has very few close friends outside of the Batfam, which has always been kinda sad but very much in character.

'Cause Clayface/Big Barda (and Steph, Tim, Jean-Paul, Duke, Harper etc.) are either people in a team with her or a Bat-associate. I think she's not great at maintaining relationships when it's not directly in front of her, which makes sense because she was never taught how to do so. Most of her foundational relationships in Batgirl (2000) required the other person (thinking particularly Steph and Babs) to put in a lot of effort, and they very easily fell apart.

The one exception is Brenda, who (besides Steph) was the first person Cass consciously formed a relationship with, and who is very important to her journey of self-discovery. But that didn't last either :(.

So in short I don't really think she has a platonic soulmate, because most of her friends are either Batfam or extremely short-term and limited to one run. Crossing my fingers that Brombal's new run introduces more long-lasting Cass friends!

[the-woker]

The whole Jason Todd is girl-coded debate thing admittedly just rubs me the wrong way.

I understand that there are people who consider gender as a concept and there are other people who consider gender to be something very real. Both are correct and very valid statements of expression, but someone who is genderless and has a heavy respect and fondness for the feminine and people with such experiences, I feel like what we are declaring 'girl-coded' should probably be a bit more analyzed and taken with more care.  

I have no ill-will to any of the people who post about this, they all seem like kind people, and everyone is entitled to their opinions and to posting them.  There is nothing wrong with projecting onto a character, identifying with their struggle and using that to cope with your trauma.  As someone who’s favorite character of all time is Jason Todd, and enjoys gender-weirdness,  and has been severely mistreated for being perceived as feminine before, I understand entirely. 

But there's a point when I can't help but feel uncomfortable with assigning being violent, a victim, “hysterical angry-like a girl”, expressing rage via screaming, and looking up to women in general as 'girl moments' and explicitly stating these as the reasons a male character is girl coded. And those have been the very specific points I have seen cited as what traits Jason has that make him "girl-coded."

I'm putting this all under a read more since this discussion is really not that deep, nor is it really relevant to the average Jason Todd tag surfer. It's just something I keep seeing talked about in the past few months.

Admittedly, just to begin with, the argument that what makes Jason ‘girl-coded’ is the fact that he is a victim in general, has strong connections with women, tends to like strong and muscular women, and has been vitriol in his screaming matches with other characters simply does not sit well with me as an explanation for what people are associating women with.  A female character can indeed do everything Jason did in a comic story, and I would enjoy it greatly, however staking these specific traits of his as the “feminine” ones is treading into a dangerous territory.

Especially since I’ve seen a few times now that people are claiming Jason and Batman’s fight in UTRH to be a Patriarchy metaphor and how Jason represents women’s struggles. The first problem I have with that claim, is very simply that Jason and Bruce’s fight is explicitly not about Bruce being a system that failed to protect Jason.

Nor is it about a pressure for Jason to return to conforming to Bruce and his rules.  Bruce wants him back with him, because Bruce loves Jason, but at no point does he attempt to force him to return to him, nor does he even force him to stop killing.  He certainly gets in the way and he prevents several of them, but when given the direct choice to either kill or force Jason to stop killing, he simply walks away and only intervenes after Jason attempts to kill Bruce himself. Calling this an analogy for women fighting against oppression by an organized system designed to exploit them, is not an apt metaphor, as likable and sympathetic as it is towards Jason, and I’d personally recommend avoiding it.

In general, on that topic.  The argument could be made for other male members of the Batfam (take Dick Grayson’s constant sexual harassment for being a ‘pretty boy’ for example.), but Jason is also simply just not a victim of the Patriarchy.

Unlike Stephanie Brown, Jason was accepted immediately by Bruce as Robin and as part of the family.  He was murdered by his mother for being an obstacle in her operation of stealing from starving people, and by a madman who killed him for being one of his nemeses.  His murder was upsetting but had nothing to do with him not presenting himself as society claimed he should, nor for not obeying said society's customs and arbitrary rules.

Under the Red Hood is a fascinating, engaging, philosophical, and extremely emotional piece of media and it’s a favorite for many people (including me) for a reason.  Highlighting Jason’s actions as being a ‘girl moment’ when he is intentionally trying to push past Bruce’s only boundary, however, is an uncomfortable idea to proclaim. Especially considering when and how Bruce tries to negotiate and reason with Jason. Jason quite literally holds their relationship, and his life, over Bruce in an attempt to get him to behave how he wants, claiming that he does so as an expression of femininity has horrible implications. Jason is entirely allowed to do what he wants (I enjoy it greatly. His violence is very sexy and honestly we should bring it back) but that is a gender neutral choice, and I wouldn’t say that this run nor his backstory have much in common with women’s struggles to label them as “clearly being such”.

Additionally, The narrative is also not portraying Jason as “hysterical”; this was his first proper return to comics after 20 years. The intention of the narrative is to challenge the morality of Batman and to open an in-universe line of discourse for a discussion that for years, has been, and still is relevant in the comic community.  

Jason’s death was notoriously the moment that Batman got closest to breaking his rule and so they brought Jason back to be the character who pushed him on why he maintained it.  They made Jason angry and violent to raise the stakes of what the Joker did to him, and to raise the question of if there was a crime so horrible that it was a moral failing to continue the pacifist approach to criminal reform.  Jason is being treated in a significantly kinder light than most of the characters we would traditionally see doing these actions.  We all agree Lock-up was a bad guy, we can agree that the League of Assassins is wrong, but we’re given a chance to take Jason at face value and are not immediately told how to feel despite the narrative showing us his violence in a raw and uncut way. Killing a bunch of drug dealers while rising in the ranks of the drug trade yourself is hardly a selfless act of good after all. 

Disclaimer 1:  I don’t think Jason is entirely wrong about many things.  But I simply do not believe Bruce “owes” him killing, and that it is wrong of Jason to demand this of him or anyone for that matter. Nobody owes you their innocence and you aren’t entitled to breaking anyone’s boundaries. 

Disclaimer 2:  I cannot stress enough how much I like Jason.  This post is not meant to make anyone feel bad, or make Jason seem like the “bad guy” of the fandom.  It’s simply a disservice to his character to write him off as nothing more than an angry victim and call it an expression of femininity, and a reminder to be a bit more careful when labeling and assigning traits. 

[allthegothihopgirls]

taylor swift's 'getaway car' except its dick and barbara

[spite-and-waffles]

I'm going to start taking it personally when people say the girls are less of a disasterfire than the boys. No the fuck they aren't. They're completely dysfunctional, self-destructive, arrogant little goblins who've never met (1)healthy coping mechanism. They're Bats for Christ's sake. What comics have you even been reading.