#And for Minfilia and Venat as well

[charulein]

I still can't believe that falling in love with Venat was what finally helped Stubborn accept that Minfilia is... Gone. That no matter what she does, she can't bring her back... Just like how no matter what she does in Elpis, Venat will become Hydaelin, the past must happen for there to be a future,,,

[dualcastimpact]

Just went through the confrontation with Nabriales and Moenbryda's sacrifice (again) and out of all the major deaths that the story keeps coming back to, Moenbryda and Papalymo's feel the least organic, at least in terms of building up that emotional rapport with the Warrior of Light and/or player enough for the Warrior of Light and/or player to be impacted by their passing. Haurchefant interacts prominently with the Warrior of Light and is a reoccurring character all the way from ARR and halfway into Heavensward. We get a whole expansion with Ysayle. We get a whole expansion with Ardbert. Emet-Selch gets TWO expansions, and even Venat and Hythlodaeus get two whole dedicated levels for us to hang out with. You can't argue the same for Moenbryda and Papalymo, who barely interact with the Warrior of Light and in fact never seem to have any significant one-to-one moments with them.

You could argue that Moenbryda's and Papalymo's deaths don't in fact affect the Warrior of Light all too badly like the others' deaths do—and you'd be right! Moenbryda's death is Urianger's grief. Papalymo's death is Lyse's grief. The Warrior of Light doesn't grieve them the way they grieve Haurchefant or Ysayle, or Ardbert, or the Ancients they meet in Elpis, and that's not the issue. The issue is that the game, especially with Moenbryda, tries to make the player feel something for their deaths when they've not allowed the player to engage with the characters enough for us to feel anything for their passing. I'd argue I feel worse about Wilred dying than I did for Moenbryda and Papalymo, and that's because we see so much more of him with the Little Ala Mhigo sequence and his interactions with us while he was in the Crystal Braves; we see him grow as a character, however brief and unrelated to us it was, and we don't get that with Moenbryda and Papalymo.

To make matters worse, Moenbryda's and Papalymo's deaths were driven by their connection to Louisoix: Moenbryda in wishing to understand his motivations for leaving her behind and sacrificing himself for the sake of some no-name place called Eorzea, and Papalymo in wishing to prove himself Louisoix's finest pupil, following his master's footsteps in sacrificing himself to temporarily seal the dread primal Shinryu. Again, that's not the issue—the issue is that ARR only gives us crumbs about Louisoix and the Circle of Knowing, crumbs that are nowhere near enough to make us care about him! Oh, Moenbryda and Papalymo are both paying homage to Louisoix through their sacrifice? Oh well, nothing to do with me! I don't know anything about Louisoix to warrant my caring!

It wouldn't be such an aggravation if the story doesn't insist on making the player care. You have a sequence with Moenbryda's parents comforting Urianger in Endwalker, and there's a sidequest involving Papalymo's father as well—their deaths are not forgotten! They're hearkened back to! They're even included in this image of the fallen made floating in the aetherial sea!

Clearly their sacrifice is considered as major as Minfilia's and Haurchefant's and Ysayle's, which would make sense if the game bothered to put in the effort to make us care about Moenbryda and Papalymo in the first place!

Okay. Rant over. I initially wanted to write about how Raginmar very likely called Kirika to help heal Moenbryda before he went after Nabriales and Minfilia—in-game it makes sense for the Warrior of Light to not be able to call anyone, but by post-ARR Raginmar's adventuring party is pretty established; they're all connected by linkpearls and can contact each other in an emergency, and Moenbryda getting blasted in the stomach by a column of dark aether very much counts as an emergency. There's one issue with that scenario, however:

Papalymo: "She was counting on the theory that a soul's aether burns brightest at the moment of its passing. A scholar until the very end..."

Moenbryda was dying when she gave up her life to temper the aetherial blade. That was the theory she was counting on: that her soul's aether, near its end, would burn brightest at the second of her death and be enough to augment the aetherial blade.

Thancred: "She gave her life to temper the blade of Light? I...I have no words."

If Raginmar was able to get Kirika to come and try to heal Moenbryda, that makes this plot point implausible. She wouldn't have been near death if a healer was at hand. A solution to that problem would be Kirika actually failing to heal Moenbryda and managing to only staunch the wound instead of healing it, but that's additional trauma for Kirika that I have to think about and work on, and I do not have the time for that— oh no— I can feel the brainworms coming—

[tritoch]

honestly ffxiv is so funny about gender in ways i can't even begin to explain. like this: if you play a male warrior of light, as i do, then venat becomes...well, idk what she is, but she's not a girl's girl.

men venat interacts with or affects that we see:

azem, her respected and beloved protege

the warrior of light, her brave little spark, for whom she directly intercedes twice in ARR even when her life is all but spent

hermes, who she seems to like and whose angst she comes nearest to understanding of any of the ancients

emet-selch, who she left a gap in the sundering for

women venat interacts with or affects that we see:

ysayle, who she gives the echo and then totally ditches to the point where ysayle develops extremely incorrect ideas about her destiny and future that ultimately lead to her death

minfilia, whose body she straight up takes over and who she basically lures to her death

the minfilias of the first, who she condemns to a cycle of reincarnated suffering and violence

krile, whose body she takes over and puppets around

obviously this lands entirely differently if you play a femwol. but it's so funny this way round. like as someone who has known a fair number of older women in the sciences she makes perfect sense to me exactly like this. hydaelyn is motherly (she calls you her children, she is linked to the mothercrystal) and this makes people want to project that characteristic backwards onto venat, but i don't think it works like that. venat is a woman and she is full of love and compassion for the world generally and she is a gnostic demiurge figure but she is definitely not anyone's mom and she has absolutely no qualms about treating other women as mere pawns in her greater plans.

she is such an aquarius though. love that for her.

[aotopmha]

The final bits of the lvl 88 MSQ I have thoughts on are the dungeon and the trial.

Ktisis Hyperboreia was a little less impactful for me compared to all of the other dungeons in Endwalker.

Zot had the really cool interior design and final boss, Babil had the really cool train set piece that lead into the tower and Anima, which narratively led perfectly into what came next, Vanaspati had the scale, tension and awesome monster designs.

Eventhough Ktisis gave you the chance to run a dungeon with the ancients and explore an ancient facility, only the final leg of the dungeon had a setting and a boss I found to be pretty cool: while the rest wasn't bad, it also wasn't as cool and interesting as some other encounters before it.

It was a cool idea that really deserved more interesting execution in my eyes.

So how does The Atiascope compare to them all?

Well, The Atiascope is equally a feast on the eyes as well as lore brain.

I think it is probably the best-looking dungeon of the game so far and I can't wait to see it with the graphical update.

We actually see what the Aetherial Sea approximately looks like, and the echoes of the souls of our friends accompany us on our way to Hydaelyn.

I think how souls work here also explains the apoearances of Haurchefant and Y'sayle when Estinien is freed from Niddhog's eyes. It's trace of their (memory) aether still not having moved on to the sea proper.

Sometimes the big lore dungeons can be less interesting mechanically than narratively (I love Amaurot, but feel like the cool monster designs deserved more interesting mechanics), but I think I enjoyed all of the bosses in the Atiascope because they gave new twists to old foes.

Livia, Rhitahtyn and Amon all had really neat twists to their fighting style and attacks.

I like the positioning with Livia.

I like opening up the safe spot for the walls Rhitahtyn creates. Shields as weapons is always such a neat concept to me.

And Shiva creating the ice block for Amon's attack is one of coolest story-gameplay integration moments in the game for me.

What a fantastic idea.

Between the bosses, the souls we see are:

- Papalymo, with Ilberd as a strong mob to take down.

- Haurchefant, who gives us a buff.

- Minfilia, who we see creating the way forward at some point.

- And of course, as mentioned Shiva/Y'sayle, who creates the ice block to protect you from Amon's attack.

The cutscene after the dungeon gives us closure on Amon, which I already went into in another post here, but it also gives closure on Asahi.

I love how the hatred between Asahi and Alphinaud is mutual.

"Likewise I hope we do not meet again."

In the cutscene before the trial, Hydaelyn sums up the character arcs and struggles everyone has gone through and also restates that she ultimately sundered reality for humanity to have a chance against Meteion, for which they need the ability to manipulate Dynamis.

And most crucially she restates that what she did caused much suffering; it was simply her solution to the problem of humanity's survival, not the morally optimal option out of any of the solutions the ancients could find. And I think that's my favourite part of her story.

She implemented the best solution she could think of that would preserve humanity's future, and it was still imperfect and caused much pain.

And then we get to the trial itself.

Which was a little bit of a let down in my eyes because Zodiark was so good.

It's, again, great on the lore level because we see all of these iconic elements associated with her character used in the fight.

We see her as an all-rounder fighter, then must defeat the crystals styled after the ones we initially get from her and finally, we see her create mini Floods of Light.

However, I don't find it particularly unique mechanically.

I still like it, I just don't find it mindblowing.

What I like about her farewell afterwards (this also applies to the cutscene before the fight), is that we get to address her as Venat because I think the real intention with her characterisation in Endwalker was to humanise her.

Not necessarily to make her good or bad morally, but to give her beliefs she acts upon with conviction.

I see the intention behind her character as that of an incredibly strong, but still imperfect woman put into a difficult situation, who fought for the future of humanity with all of her might.

And I think she deserves to be sent off as that "human" woman, not the "goddess" she became.

And finally, here is where I mention the details that the Labyrinthos/Atiascope section uses to bring the story full circle: the Dalamud shards, which were a symbol of the Seventh Umbral Calamity are now used to save humanity along with the Mothercrystal, which has been a stand-in/symbol for Hydaelyn for so long, is used as a fuel to travel to Meteion.

Once again, I think it's all just really well done.

And with the next quest I'm at being the first lvl 89 quest, I'm officially in the final stretch of 6.0.

I was planning to get to it today, but I think I also have other plans today and the next few days, so I'll see how it works out time-wise.

Aiming for it in the upcoming days/week for sure, though.

[thevikingwoman]

okay, some endwalker thoughts below the cut -

alright, killed zodiark, met the loloporrits, and I'm still not over the tiny baby carrot people!! I went and inspected the endless supply of nutritious carrots and the questionable fashion choices, and that's where I am. Some thoughts spinning:

Thank you Thancred for asking where we're going in the moon spaceship:

this is a pretty wild plan? go *somewhere*? we will see what is habitable? i'm still wondering if hydealyn got this idea from midgardsormr, in which case: consider the space death robots.

Thank you Thancred, again, for asking about the other shards:

Hydealyn uniquely loving the source is fucked up. wtf??? that's SO weird and unacceptable. Why the source? So zodiark's followers first had him eat their friends and comrades so some could be saved, and supposedly Venat was against this? or maybe just part two of the plan, zodiark eating everyone so they could have their friends back and rejoining the world. Sacrificing some people so that others could live; which it now seems like Hydealyn is perfectly happy to do too. Ancient behavior, apparently, and it sucks - especially in the context of the story and making the choice in shb that the ascian's plans are unacceptable. Anyway sorry Minfilia, whose love of Hydealyn saved the First, she wants to throw your work and love aside. Meryta is mad about this one in fact.

The mysterious books the loloporrits has recieved for their preparation and their earthly (sourcely? eitherysly?) collaborators:

My thought is this is the Sharlayans? It would make sense that THIS plan is the secret thing the Forum is doing. What if they have been in on the plan all along, passed down to the forum? Since the end of the world is now at hand, they have set the secret plan in motion, making the gleaners fetch all sorts of things for the spaceship trip. They also don't care about fighting the telephoroi, since they are busy with the next bit - what comes after when the world is ending.

Further thoughts on this:

well, that is fucked up, actually. If the sharlayans have Special Hydealyn Instructions to save the world (or at least what they think is imporant, which doesn't seem to include any other cultures and hey what about the beast tribes? ), they why does Hydealyn make the WoL go fight the telephoroi? there whole flower bit and it's a bit fuzzy but I think there's a distinct feeling that the expectation is to PREVENT the Final Days (not cause it whoops, but lets blame Fandaniel). Why not let the WoL in on the whole plan with the moon?

It seems like the sharlayans and the WoL are both the tools, and Hydaealyn is betting on two horses, so to speak. The weapon failed, so now the other plan is taken over. Just little chess pieces moved on a board; out of some allegedly love for the people on the source (only). Hm. The motive feels hollow with the amount of manipulation

[thefinalwitness]

HELLO i gave myself a horrible two-in-one headache yesterday (tension headache from working on this all night, sinus headache because spring/summer is torturous to me) but i finally got to put that weird fucking oc together. they didnt end up as weird as i was anticipating but this is only their "midway trying to be normal" form so maybe i'll make the true-true form extra fucked up. some other time. i'm tired)

ANYWAY babbling spree: im calling this oc atlas (they/them) for now but i havent 10000% settled on a name. they were a concept and familiar created by venat in the world unsundered, and were what she sent to track meteion when she fled to ultima thule before the final days. they spent 12k years trying to get through to meteion, and in the process were severely "corroded" by the despairing dynamis, until only a shred of their will yet existed in ultima thule.

they use that little bit of will to try and guide the scions and warriors of light when they come to ultima thule; they can't do anything more than call out and try to guide them to meteion. so, besides a spooky extra voice, they don't have much impact on the series of events there.

they're freed with the endsinger's defeat, and use some of their recovering power to save l'aiha, who would have died of her injuries otherwise. they also think she's "adorable" and, upon returning to etheirys, chose to remodel their true form to more resemble her, hence why they look so much like a miqo'te with moth bits. (originally, they'd have looked more like an ancient, and/or just more weird and alien.)

they also have a "disguise/plain miqo'te" form for blending in, but it's... imperfect. main issues are the starry freckles across their body still glow in dim light and darkness, and their eyes are just. VERY bright.

they LOOOOOVE modern etheirys but don't understand a lick of it. <3 ooc theyre a double whammy of "i need a dedicated dancer oc" and "i am ever on the lookout for an oc that i would consider to be l'aiha's wol successor if i retire her at some point". theyre very kind and 'brave' (or, perhaps more accurately, unaware of danger) and they're going through a bit of a Depression post-6.0 because, well, venat is very dead.

despite the 12k years of conflict with meteion, they've always cared about her and are one of her two friends after endwalker (minfilia (yes that minfilia) being the other one. minfie's alive and collecting ancient familiars). atlas therefore spends most of their time in thavnair, helping minfilia tend to those awakened to the echo there during the final days, but will likely begin playing a bigger role in msq now that A Certain Arch Nemesis Of Hydaelyn is back in the picture, sorta, kinda. <3

anyway theyve been stewing in my brain for weeks now, and i only this weekend collected enough little ideas to pin together to make an actual oc. i like them a very normal amount.

[autumnslance]

Since you're very knowledgeable about meta and lore for XIV, I was wondering if you've heard much about the original ideas for XIV and how it was supposed to connect to XIII and XV? I recently reran the Antitower and it seemed like they were really setting up a dark storyline for Hydaelyn and Minfilia that potentially extends all the way to ShB. There's the art of Minfilia in crystal chains and the creepy dolls are such a random boss but might be a callout to the Minfilias sacrificed on the First. I know XV was originally going to have an evil god pretending to be good with a connection to a crystal, and I recall hearing something similar about XIII. The fact that Venat also uses Noctis' Armiger has been fascinating me since EW. It's all got me curious, but I'm not sure if it's something that's been discussed in interviews or by fans.

Nothing that I'm overtly aware of; different teams worked on XIII and XV, and while all FF's tend to reference one another in order to tie the series together, XIV as the MMO amusement park/love letter to the franchise as a whole tends to refer back to the other games frequently, borrowing concepts, characters, and rough plot elements. Also there's a lot of overlap in production times, hence the crossover events for XIII and XV we did have before (the latter one a couple times) upon those games' releases.

As for events in Heavensward with Minfilia, I don't think Hydaelyn was ever meant to be "evil", but She was always holding things back and giving Her specific point of view. Minfilia's chains can also simply mean the shackles of duty and binding herself to Hydaelyn the way she did, not necessarily anything malevolent on Hydaelyn's part.

It's also important to remember that the Zodiark/Hydaelyn storyline was inherited from 1.x, kinda fiddled with in the background...and then really delved into and overhauled while we players saw a "break" from the meta plot in Stormblood. Ishikawa took over as Writing Lead and adjusted course for Shadowbringers and Endwalker.

So there's some fine details from ARR and HW that don't quite fit or make sense now after ShB and EW, though the devs have gone back and massaged a few things (like in the Lahabrea solo duty post-Ultima Weapon) or did their best to explain it away. I'm currently (very slowly) replaying EW on my miqo'te alt, and the Watcher gives the very Ghostly Obi-Wan "truth from a certain point of view" talk when the Scions meet with him on the moon. And later, after meeting Venat, we also get the idea that to preserve the time loop and make sure we got to where we needed to be, She was playing chess games on what She had to say and do, and when, as Hydaelyn.

And the writers are very fond of biased/not always accurate in-world knowledge, in order to give themselves wiggle room; the new lorebook really emphasizes that.

The Watcher's relevant dialogue, with WoL's options:

The Watcher: Indeed, there was a faction opposed to Zodiark's creation. But their aim was never to unmake Him. The Watcher: They understood the continued preservation of the natural order was dependent on His very existence. Until we could identify and address the underlying cause of the Final Days, He would need remain, for His departure would set in motion those apocalyptic forces once more. The Watcher: Hydaelyn recognized this as well. And so, rather than destroy, She sundered Zodiark, Herself, and the star into lesser reflections, that She might confine Him in this place. WoL Dialogue Options & Watcher's Responses: I could have sworn She beseeched me to banish the Darkness. The Watcher: Perhaps She did. But as with all beings, intent is not always in accord with spoken word. -- Then what She told me in the aetherial sea was false…? The Watcher: That the two once dwelled as one until Zodiark grew hungry for power, upsetting the balance twixt Them...? Not quite a lie, though a rather gross embellishment. The Watcher: But knowing what you know now, you must surely realize why She might opt to obfuscate and mislead. --- The Watcher: Hydaelyn and Zodiark are both constructs of man. Approximations of perfection limited by our own imperfections.

If anyone does have more information on the meta of XIV's interactions and influences back and forth with XIII and XV, or the original plans for XIV's Zodiark/Hydaelyn story (might be a good question for Anonymoose) by all means speak up; I wasn't really as active in XIV at the time when those other games were current.

But it also bears mentioning that while there's a lot of familiar concepts, names, and imagery in XVI, which was created by the same team as XIV, like all the other games before it that is normal to make it part of the franchise, and so XVI is very much its own world and story, not reliant on XIV, nor is XIV reliant upon it.

Though I for one am looking forward to that crossover and getting my Torgal mount and minion and hopefully Cid Telamon's theme for my orchestrion.

[feralkwe]

4, 8, 16 and 26 for Kit from the ask meme? :D i'd copy the questions in but i think i'd run out of space with that wall of text lol

haha probably! in fact i'm gonna put this under a cut!

4. how does your wol's echo manifest itself? do they see visions as they happen? all at once? delayed? do they get any physical symptoms from it?

the echo as i understand it is purely hindsight/after the fact (and it is entirely possible i am forgetting instances where it might be otherwise?) so i'd say it's largely a clear, all-at-once thing. in-game it reads to me to be a little painful, or at least distressing. i imagine it to be like a sudden onset headache that maybe leaves behind it a bit of nausea when it passes. it doesn't look pleasant by any means. that said, kit has a high pain threshold, so don't let her fool you. it hurts, she's just determined to grit her teeth through it an soldier onward.

8. how good is your wol at taking care of their armor/clothes? do they mend them themself? pay to gave it fixed? just change it when it gets old?

i would say that her axe she maintains herself with loving attention to detail. she's probably an axe nerd like holga from d&d: honor among thieves, and will correct you on what type of oil and how often you should use it to keep that blade in good shape. this has nothing to do with the fact that kit specifically has the axe of light from sos ex. i'm also sure that rava viera learn to maintain and even make their gear themselves, so whatever she left golmore knowing, she's only enhanced along the way. if there are things she's unsure of, she would absolutely seek out an expert, but she would definitely want to learn to do it herself.

16. is your wol good at cooking? what's their specialty? what can they never get right no matter how hard they try? what flavour profile are they good at cooking? what do they eat on the road?

again, i imagine the viera of golmore to be very communal people, so i am sure kit has at least passable cooking skills. she could probably feed a lot of people in a sustainable way if needed, so the profiles would be of a generic appeal for the broadest demographics. that said, i don't think she likes doing it. food on the road is probably dictated by circumstance: inns or taverns if available so she can get a hearty, hot stew or (if she's lucky!) a really spicy dish. if not, whatever travels best. food is necessity that has to be dealt with, but good food meant to be enjoyed is a treat.

26. what does your wol think about lying? is it unacceptable to ever lie, are white lies okay, are they a pathological liar? how do they feel about people who lie to them?

ooh this is a meaty one. kit does not appreciate being lied to, even in a mild way, or manipulated with half-truths, even for a good reason. it definitely depends on the level of contrition from the liar regarding the lies told, and she does try to approach it with the context of why it was deemed necessary. urianger is the most complicated example of how she views it. the first time was hard. it hurt because it was him and minfilia was the cost. the second, she felt like his hand was forced, and he went out of his way to make amends. right or wrong, she held/holds that one against g'raha, and she's still not fully over it (but trying). her grudge against g'raha will take time, and they need to have an actual meaningful conversation about it. venat/hydaelyn? well, some things will just die hard, and that's all i will say about that here in this specific post lol.

thanks so much for the ask!

[loveroflolth]

Yes, yes, I was born beloved. And I loved in turn, the whole of my soul was for the world that loved me so. (My wounds weep now as these words unmoor from the deepest ache of me.)

I will die at the end of this story, so I beg you — listen close.

Where was I? Yes, I loved. I loved. (The sound of my own breath is so soft now — so, so slow.) I want you to understand that this grief is heavy because the gift is heavy. And there is no gift I would not give to you, to You, and yes, you, Endsinger. You just needed to ask.

So here is my heart. Rather - our heart, our story, our hope. I am just the one to carry this alm. (Come closer, I can barely speak.) Of course, I will be an altar for this love. Of course, I am the offering as well. And I forgive you for being the knife. (Thank you.)

Hydaelyn. Hermes. Hades. Elidibus. Vauthry. Tesleen. Ardbert. Meffrid. Conrad. Asahi. Yostuyu. Papalymo. Ilberd. Haurchefant. Ysayle. Nidhogg. Minfilia. Minfilia. Minfilia. Wilred. Moenbryda. Noraxia. Venat. Me. (For I now, too, I go. Please forgive me. I forgot so many.)

(My friend, if it comes down to it, you may forget me too.)

[myrfing]

my silly headcanon is that the azem preceding venat to whom she succeeded resembled minfilia. and argos. it would add a questionable angle to venat’s business yes but it would be well for me

[oneiroy]

10 or 14 for WoL questions? :)

10. How do they feel about their relationship with Hydaelyn? Midgarsormr?

Ryss's relationship with Hydaelyn evolved over time. At first, there's a lot of unease, certainly. She feels endebted to a deity she knows too little about, and does not like that. Of course she's glad for the blessing, but she there is a part of her that's worried about having the attention of a god, and that worry only gets louder after what happened with Minfilia, or each time after she has to interact with tempered people. What if that was slowly happening to her?

(rest under a read more bc both answers ended up being a bit long oop)

Towards the end of the current story, she does feel like she understand her more, and understand how she came to be, and is a lot less worried about the unknown. Her relationship to Hydaelyn / Venat stays complicated, though. She has come to care about her, to see what they shared. There's a lot of empathy, and the tears she shed when Venat finally returns to the lifestream are genuine. But at the same time, she is in a way part of Azem's heritage, and that is something difficult to carry for Ryss. And basically asking her to kill her at the end did not help.

For Midgardsormr, it's quite different. In Ryss's canon, he ended up staying with her all the time, and regularly commenting on her decisions and life choices. She tried to get rid of him several times, but it never worked. He's the bother father figure she never asked for ahahahah

14. Of the Scions, who are they most worried for? 

Alphinaud, certainly! She is much less worried about him by enw, but it took time. It might be harsh, but she thinks he talks a lot for someone who can't pack a punch ahahaha

Early on, she found him quite irritating, but she still made sure to stand intimidatingly besides him everytime he ran his mouth, because, well, she might find him annoying but he's a kid, and she thinks he's going to get hit if she doesn't.

thanks for the ask!!

[charulein]

Ough, as I was getting ready for work an idea crossed my mind and I felt myself taking emotional damage,,,,

The alchemists of Radz-at-Han were able to make two vessels for Vrtra, right? With the specification to receive one of his eyes etc, and the vessel is capable of eating and emulating other tasks that make it feel lifelike for both Vrtra and the people who encounter Varshahn.

Well, Stubborn did manage to somehow finally make peace with Minfilia not coming back thanks to Venat, but what if the thought crossed her mind that had she journeyed earlier to Thavnair and petitioned the help of the alchemists, they could have helped create a vessel for Minfilia's soul...

A scary thought Stubborn would need to dismiss immediately, ere it took hold of her..

[starsasunder]

8, 14, and 27 for the female muses meme!

50 DEVELOPMENT QUESTIONS FOR FEMALE MUSES // accepting.

8. how is her relationship with her mother?

Inanna has two mothers, and while her relationship with both is good, they are not incredibly close. She can rely on her mothers, she can go to them for advice, but there is a distance there that stems from their absence in her childhood, and no amount of bonding as adults will ever fix that. She would never admit it, but she still harbors internalized jealousy and hurt over their frequent absences. She tends to keep both at a bit of distance because of it, preferring her father's company and guidance. But for the most part, all of them are alright with that - I'rakhi and Celeste raised Irkalla and took her with them on their travels, and they got the 'mother experience' from that. And Inanna was incredibly well-cared-for by her father, Una'ra. So they have as healthy a relationship as they can.

Astraea is the complete opposite, and not entirely for the better. While her relationship with her mother was close, it was not nurturing. Her mother was overbearing and controlling. She kept her caged in their home like a bird, and controlled every aspect of her life, from the way she dressed to how she spent her free time. Even once Astraea escaped her mother's home, she never escaped her influence. Pythia shaped Astraea, for better or worse, into the woman that she was. No room was ever big enough, no horizon wide enough, for Astraea to escape the ghost of her presence.

14. has she ever faced harassment? 

For being a woman? A few times. Inanna handled it with as much grace as she could, but it still stung. And it was always made worse by the fact that, as soon as they realized who she was, they would start bowing and scraping. It always left her feeling an immense rage, that any woman should be treated thus, and that other women did not have their reputations to spare them.

Thankfully no, for Astraea. While I headcanon the Ancients' society as deeply flawed, there don't appear to be signs of sexism in it, so most of the harassment she experienced was for other traits, like her disabilities.

27. is there a female role model in her life? 

A few. Her mothers, despite their frequent absences. Her aunt Seraphine, who taught Inanna much of what she knows about the lance. Her grandmother, Lady Blanchard, who taught Inanna much of what it means to be a lady. Y'shtola, for her bravery and her unending curiosity. Minfilia, for her selflessness. Venat, for her determination. And now Meteion, because even in the depths of her despair, she still held onto the tiniest ember of hope - otherwise it could never have been rekindled.

Astraea's would be her mother, despite her flaws. Venat, for her unending kindness, empathy, and bravery. Several of her professors. Loghrif, as a staunch friend and ally. And probably others who I have yet to develop. Astraea needs work.

[voidsentprinces]

When Emet-Selch was all alone. Waiting for the end. He summoned the spectre of the city and people he loved to keep him company. His first end saw him face to face with that of a past friend in a different form, his people's memories well in the hands of the successor to the seat of Azem. The last time, he has Hythlodaeus by his side and sees the Warrior of Light off to meet the thing that caused Amaurot its end. Though, always prideful, never admitting he was wrong in the end. He kept it going and game up with a plan for Elidibus to return to Amaurot as well. And give Elidibus the same comfort of those he fought for in the end in the form of the crystals of those other convocation members, crying that the rains had finally ceased and he was blessed with another beautiful day, though they are not there to see it. Accepting his fall when he meets us again in the Ocular as a fading soul. Content to send us back to Elpis and that he may never know what will end but he finally leaves it in Hydaelyn's hands. In the end, Athena summons the memories of Elidibus, Erich, and Lahabrea. The last moment of these memories, the Speakers looks upon the forms of us and accepts our fragmented selves and goes along peacefully to the aether stream knowing the world is in good hands and his son would do right by him til the very end of days. Venat is surrounded by those she watched suffer and fight and come out stronger and the face of her successor in a fragmented form. Finally stronger, she has done her duty as a previous Shepherd of the Star and leaves to retire to the aetherstream finally knowing the Source is in good hands and feeling peace for all she had done. And when we are all alone...at the edge of the universe. The spectres of all those who hold us dear appear. The Words of the Seedseer, the Sultana, the Admiral, of Hien, Haurchefant, Ardbert, Beq Lugg, Midgardsormr, Aymeric, Ryne, Minfilia, Edmont, Papalymo, and Raubahn. Gathering to our side once more. Their echoes and words heartening us with each step. And when we have fallen? The Scions prayers ignite us with fervor once more after collapsing from our fight with Zenos, we awaken surrounded by those same faces.

[thescions]

Hydaelyn was one of two of the first Primals -- a being called into existence, with the Ancient Venat at Her core, whose sole purpose was to shackle Zodiark.

Purpose is the keyword here. The intent in which a group of people call upon a Primal very much defines that primal.

Although Hydaelyn would serve as a mother-like protector to Eitherys, Her original duty was stasis. Preservation. And with Venat to serve as Her heart, She had a tie to what was once Her mortality: a bond infused with memories and personal desires.

When a Primal in present-day is summoned, it is with significantly less available aether, and in most cases, the intent is to protect its tribe. In many cases, these tribes are embroiled (or perceive to be) in some form of power struggle. They are instruments of war, and thus will imbue those that summon them with similar sentiment.

When Hydaelyn beckoned Minfilia to the aetherial sea, it was not with intent to harm her: but it did, effectively, enthrall her. When the Warrior of Light speaks with the Word of the Mother upon their reunion, the being known as Minfilia is all but suspended; they are conversing with Hyadelyn. While Minfilia is not completely gone, her personality is dormant as she willingly gave her physical body to Hydaelyn to speak through. Hydaelyn was, at this time, so weak that She couldn't hope to communicate otherwise.

It is only after Urianger's gambit that the Warriors of Darkness' Crytals are able to send enough power to Hydaelyn that She is able to let Minfilia go. At this point, of course, Minfilia is all but a spirit herself (not unlike Ascians and the WoDs at the time). Her physical body is likely entombed in the rubble beneath Ul'Dah, and has been since the Scions' great escape from the Bloody Banquet.

As grim as it all is, Minfilia has always been a devoted servant of Hydaelyn and trusted in Her will. She was especially distressed at the sight of her friends' sacrifices, and did not hesitate when finally given the opportunity to make a difference all her own. Although Minfilia was permanently changed upon her enthrallment with Hydaelyn, she remained as in control as she could of herself as possible. Hydaelyn's intent has never been to harm Her followers -- only to influence them as was necessary to ensure the survival of the Star and the peoples She so dearly loved. There is, to an extent, some measure of enthrallment forced upon the Warrior of Light as a result; but that influence quickly wanes as Hydaelyn's power begins to fade over time. Additionally, the Warrior of Light has fought, overcome, and built up a bit of a resistance to enthrallment by then considering all the other primals they have faced! They're able to think more clearly, speak up more, and question Hydaelyn's motives far better in Endwalker than they are in ARR for these reasons.

In Endwalker, Hydaelyn fully possesses Krile several times throughout the earlier chapters (and no surprise, this full possession led to Krile's taking on the same appearance Minfilia's did post-Word-of-the-Mother-ing). This, again, is only done with explicit permission of the user. Krile essentially falls asleep (like Minfilia would have) while Hydaelyn takes possession of her entirely. The difference is that at this point, Hydaelyn is either a) regained enough strength while being silent throughout Heavensward and Stormblood or b) desperate enough to expend Her remaining energy because She needs to communicate clearly.

So long story short: Minfilia is wholly tempered by Hydaelyn, but based on the intent of both Hydaelyn/Venat and Her summoners, as well as Minfilia's own willingness, she does not fully lose her sense of self. She holds onto who she is until the very end, when she is released by Hydaelyn long enough to sacrifice herself for the First. But Minfilia, as well as the Warrior of Light and all others chosen by Hydaelyn, are at least a bit susceptible to Her Will for the good of Eitherys.

[eemamminy-art]

10. How do they feel about their relationship with Hydaelyn? Midgarsormr?

It's... really complicated lol

For Midgardsormr I think there was some animosity initially because of him suppressing the echo, specifically because Leigh had a really intense connection with Hydaelyn at first. He had a close friendship with Minfilia (as he grew up in Ul'dah and was also a refugee like her) so when both their echoes awakened, it just felt like something really special. So Midgardsormr weakening that and silencing his echo for a while really upset him at the time, though in Heavensward Leigh is Going Through It™ to say the least lol. I think when he realized it was mostly just to test his mettle he calmed down about it, especially the more he learned about the dragons overall.

Hydaelyn dips into ShB/EW spoilers territory so I'll put in a cut

I know in canon it's mentioned Azem is kind of on the fence between the Hydaelyn and Zodiark crowds but my Azem, Apollo, is more like Venat's silliest soldier lmao. I diverge a lot from canon so she's not his mentor but she is someone he really looks up to, and when she starts rallying people together for an alternate solution he is completely on board with it even though it comes at a grave cost for him. Because he is so loyal, after the sundering she expects that same sort of unquestioning loyalty from his shards too, and at first Leigh does go along with everything really unquestioningly. It's only after losing Minfilia and speaking with Ardbert during 3.4 that Hydaelyn begins to lose her shine for him, and ultimately he parts ways from her.

For a time anyway! He leaves the Scions at that point, but of course has that final confrontation with her in Endwalker. He's able to air out whatever grievances he had as well as speaking with awe about the good in her too, just giving her complete honesty before the end. Leigh is just that sort of person, he wears his heart on his sleeve and doesn't want to leave anything unsaid. I think that last meeting between them is really difficult for him, because while he doesn't feel he can trust her after being used by her, he does still find himself caring for her very much. I think it weighs really heavily on his mind for some time afterward!