#Also the trans/nb/genderfluid implications...

[insertcoolnameherethanks]

Argylle was simultaneously gay and not gay enough

[hannibalismos-jaaneman]

Right, hi. Since you replied on the question about how genderfluid people choose their sexuality.

Before I start asking questions because there are a lot of them, I'm sorry, I don't mean to make you uncomfortable or try to attack you, I just want to know because no one seems to be asking these questions in the exact wordings I want to. And I'm just confused, why not? Is being curious phobic? So yeah, I'm nit trying to be phobic, just curious and you can tell me if you feel uncomfortable at any point.

Now,

Of course I understand you just don't wake up and choose a gender, that sounds dumb and to an extent genderfluid-ohobic to me ngl. That's why I said they vary on a spectrum between feminity and masculinity, that includes leanings and neutrality towards gender too.

Just clear out these points to me-

So gay and lesbian are not hard defined terms to non binary folks? Like they may be to cis gender gays and lesbians but not to non binary folks? Like that seems fair in a way because if it's still hard defined then that would mean that one would have to use mlnb or wlnb (which personally I feel comfortable with using for nbs personally. I'm not being phobic or gatekeeping, loosely defined terms just don't sit very well with me. Of course I respect them at any rate. Pro-choice individual here but yeah-)

Also, when you say fem side and masc side, do you have a divide between those two? Like is the divide like a traditional kind of divide? You know traditional definitions and implications of being masc or fem?

Like do you think all these genders only exist because the two binary genders have some seriously messed up stereotypes? Like if we didn't have these stereotypes at all like the term woman wouldn't mean skirts and flowers and tenderness and painted nails and whatnot and the term man wouldn't mean just muscles and freedom and shit, would genders just not exist? Like is it all subjective and relative?

i am glad you're being so respectful anon, most people aren't and i appreciate that a lot. and not at all! please, being curious and asking questions is respectful to the highest degree, that is what anyone who cares would do. that shows that you want to know about us folks and listen to us and respect us and our ways of expressing ourselves. last time i checked them books, it was called being nice to people.

yes that's exactly how you would put it. and yeah, people who don't support genderfluid folks (or simply transphobes) do say stuff like that to us. they think we're pretentious and attention-seeking whores.

now onto your doubts-

okay so everyone seems to have a different view of understanding gays and lesbians so i'll put it in the simplest way possible that can be applied to define the two terms:

gays are people who are attracted to people of the same gender (earlier it was applied to men but not it's an umbrella term).

lesbians are nb, trans or cis women who are attracted nb, trans of cis women specifically.

everyone has a different perspective of looking at these terms because there's no strict way of defining them. lgbtq+ community is all about breaking the barriers of definitions, breaking the stigma of putting everyone in a box so there are no strict definitions for almost any identity, be it gender related or sexual.

okay, fem side and masc side are kinda vague for the community tbh. it's not like you can't wear a skirt on masc days or anything (that's just society being fucked up), it's more like how you feel that day. it's your way of talking, walking or generally presenting yourself to other people. it's really complicated because fem and masc sides have definitions that root from our regular stigmatic society. fem and masc sides are more dependant on our biology than society really. it's like on a masc day you wanna put on your binder and wear a man bun. fem side is more like you don't wanna wear your binder and put your hair in braids or a pony. it's more like that but yeah, because we're all brought up in a fucked up society that taught us that skirts are for girls and pants are for boys, that we talk of fem and masc sides. it's subjective, remove the gender assigning to stuff we all can do.

a big fat fucking yes to all of those questions anon. none of that fucked up nonsense would exist had society not created gender norms. thank you so much for asking that.

[ursie]

Nico isn’t Nb there is no “coding” there is no implication like all you guys are doing is literally looking for any reason to not have a canon gay couple exist istg you guys are five steps away from straight trans girl Nico or lesbian Nico like Nico is a man who loves men. Die mad about it

Ok so I didn’t delete the this one because you brought up a interesting point actually and that is the intersection of gender and sexuality in hcs -I’ve seen a lot of talk about the complications of hc “male” characters as lesbians and how you shouldn’t hc “men” as trans women-which is true-however I’ve also seen many people including trans women point out that you don’t need to be a woman to be a lesbian and people hcing “male” characters as nb lesbians isn’t the same. Now that’s a very nuanced take and I think that’s what this discussion needs. Should Nico’s sexuality ever be hc as different? No. But does that mean we can never touch upon his gender identity? No. We should be careful on not making Nico a woman that’s true-but you can be nb and be gay dude and that has to equally acknowledged. If people were to hc Nico as Bigender or genderfluid none of it would take away from the fact he’s a gay man even if there were days he’s Wills “gf” in the same way I’m bigender and genderfluid I’m still a lesbian on my masculine days. It’s not so black and white. There’s gonna be contradictions esp if it’s written by Nb people for Nb people like..the intersection is complicated and how we handle our identities are complicated and I’m sorry but I think people are gonna have to get used to reading those far more nuanced and almost contradictory takes than like some cis persons juvenile understanding of us. Long story short Nico being Nb doesn’t take away from him being a gay “man”. Die mad about it

[thatwitchrevan]

So I wanna talk about labels for a sec because I struggled with them a lot and I'm just having a lot of happy gender feels right now!

so I'm very much leaning towards 'genderfluid' right now because while in the past I distinctly did not identify with masculinity or being a boy/man that has.. started to change. Idk if it's that being a guy is something that I've genuinely only begun to experience or if it's just that I was stuck in the idea that I couldn't be masc or male because of my agab and presentation. But either way I've started to find he/him pronouns and terms like 'boy' really euphoric. I still don't feel like A Man in a similar way that I don't feel like A Woman and also like, my version of masculinity involves a lot of pink and makeup bc fuck it, I can have glitter eyeshadow and call myself a boy just as much as any cis gnc man can. So me being genderfluid wouldn't mean I have a strong sense of being either a man or a woman at any point, just that I kind of slide around on the spectrum willy nilly only that spectrum now includes masculinity along with femininity and androgyny. I would like to experiment with more traditionally masc presentation in the future but rn I'm pretty much just vibin.

Also I think nonbinary is still my primary label, but rn I'm just enjoying the specific implications of genderfluid. Nonbinary is home base bc no matter what I know that is accurate and unlikely to change. Also I just like feeling connected to nb people in general and being able to go by just nonbinary if that's what's comfortable has been v important to me. as far as demigirl, I wouldn't say that's totally innacurate at this point but it just really doesn't fully fit me anymore... but it's still really important to me and I appreciate it for being the label I needed and was comfortable with in the past 💖

the only constant with me is not knowing what the fuck I'm doing because gender is weird, but I'm much more content with that now and happy to let myself be who I am in the moment instead of worrying about 'figuring it out' for all time. if next year I feel completely agender and only use they pronouns that's cool. if I end up being a trans guy that admittedly sounds like a big change which is scary to me, but that's also cool. rn I'm genderfluid and I use your standard variety pronouns and I'm very sleepy ✌🏻 I'm glad I let myself exist. I hope y'all are doing well and remember you're awesome!

[tussive]

I have a lot of thoughts on this subject and some of them are touchy and I know many of my followers are trans.  I've never really spoken about most of this publicly, but I was just discussing this type of thing with @fresholivesfromtheolivebar and I thought having a place to organize my thoughts and get them out in a hopefully not too rambly/weird and mostly cohesive post.

I used to identify agender/non-binary for a period of time.  I've never identified as "male."  I don't understand men.  I don't get men.  They talk to me and it's like their way of thinking is completely foreign to me.  That isn't to say I'm not male.  I am very much male.  I was raised male.  I am seen as male.  I have been conditioned as  a male (possibly a faggy male lol) my entire life, including now, and that undoubtably affects how I perceive life and shapes my personality.  I've always mostly had women as friends, male friends generally I lost interest in talking to quickly, and I don't typically udnerstand their line of thinking/reasoning to begin with.

That's Colette quote sums it up really well for me.  "“I have nothing to say to men and never had.  Judging from the little time I’ve spent with them, their usual conversation is sickening.  Besides, they bore me.  I believe,” he hesitated, then concluded, “I believe I don’t understand men.”"

I have several male internet friends, but none who I'm especially close to.  We all go months without talking sometimes, but I do enjoy speaking  with them over shared interests.  William is the exception, but we have discussed these things at lengths and he feels almost (or maybe entirely) the same way as I do.  He doesn't really consider himsself "male" either.

I didn't like agender or non-binary or genderfluid or any of that, because I feel like they carry their own impressions that I didn't feel fit me.  When I was younger, I experienced a great deal of gender dysphoria.  I wanted to be born a girl.  Probably because I always got along better with the other girls school.  I spent a lot of time with my grandmother and her female friends.  My step-grandfather was in my life heavily and I loved him dearly, but I never connected with him on the same level I did with my grandmother.

I thought I may be trans when I was younger.  I looked into things, explored options, spoke with trans women and many of them were very pushy about transitioning.  I was under 18 at the time and one person actually threatened me with calling CPS, lying and saying I was abused, so I could go live with another family and could "be who I really was."

That experience put me off becoming trans a lot, if I'm being totally honest.  But also around that time I was questioning gender roles to to begin with.  Why are certain traits, behaviors and interests considered "female" and others are considered "male."  It didn't make sense to me.  So I just said fuck you to gender roles and started doing whatever I wanted and my gender dysphoria went away.  I still have aspects of my body I don't like and wish were different, but I think that's literally every human.  Mine may be based around my sex to a degree and wishing I looked more feminine, but the core of the problem is the same.

I went by  non-binary/agender for a while, but I didn't really love those because I felt like they came with their own implications, so I stil just called myself a male and would say like "male, kind of" or something when someone asked lol.  I generally say I'm straight, but I do find males to be sexually attractive, but I've never met a man who I was able to connect with emotionally on any level even close to resembling romantic attraction.  William is my only close male friend and I love him like a brother, not someone I want to put my dick into.  I know going by like "newer" more specific terms, I'd probably be like "agender/non-binary demisexual heteroromantic."  But I just feel like that is dumb.  I don't think a label needs to perfectly describe you, just give people a rough idea, personally.    

And like, I love trans people.  Let me say here, I do not view any issue with trans people and if they feel transitioning is their best shot at happiness, they should go that.  I am 100% believe in full bodily autonomy, you should be allowed to do anything with it that doesn't hurt someone.  I do think a minority of people have taken things with it too far and have started trying to "cancel" anyone who doesn't perfectly all in line with their idealogy, but the majority of trans people I've meant online and in person are not that, they just want to be happy in their own body.

That being sad, I do think a lot of "TERF" arguments are valid.  I think having spaces specifically for AFAB people is a good thing.  Being born male or female and raised and conditioned that way within a society WILL affect who you are as an adult, even if you were trans then and just didn't really realize it yet.  I like the "3rd gender neutral" bathroom idea, but I think it should go a step further.  Eliminate all multi stall bathrooms.  Every bathroom should be a single bathroom that anyone can use, regardless of sex or gender identity.

That all said, I view trans women as women.  And the above points aren't really fair to them,* I agree totally.  Like that is genuinely so shitty and my heart breaks for trans people who suffer through as much as they do.  It's not fair that it happens.  (Unfortunately a lot of things aren't fair.  Which doesn't mean "SUCK IT UP PUMPKIN" it just means shit is going to suck a lot and learning to roll with it is the best way to have any kind of peace of mind imo.  But I fully empathize.  I am no familiar with gender dysphoria.  And I still wish I was born female.

I just don't think transitioning is right for me because there's NOTHING that stops me from doing whatever I wanna do, wearing whatever I wanna wear, talking how I want to talk, etc as a male that I wouldn't be able to do.  So it doesn't matter all that much.  If other people want to transition, I fully support them and I think it should be easier for people to do so.

I love trans people, not to pull the "I even have some [x] friends!" card but basically every person I talk to regularly is a woman or trans/nb/queen/etc.  I do what I can to support them whenever I can.

I know some of what I said here probably comes across TERF-y, or whatever the male equivalent of that would be.  I don't claim that term, but I've been called it by random trans people online like hundreds of times.

If you feel like I'm a TERF or hate trans people or don't respect you or what you go through, by all means block/unfollow/message me to d iscuss it further.  If you unfollow, I get it, you won't offend me or anything.  Most of this is just me working out/posting my gender identity again because I feel good about it now really.  The trans stuff is just like there to try to add context of why I don't call myself trans.

(Kinda sidenote: honestly I've been calling myself "queer" more and more.  It's vague and doesn't give any specific impression other than "not cis opposite attracted person" and I think that's a good way to describe myself lol.)

Sorry this is long, sorry if this is confusing, I didn't proofread at all and sorry if this upsets you.  I'm happy to talk with you if you are upset about anything or if you just want nothing to do with someone like me, that's totally fine!

Anyway, if you read all of this, I tank you.  I know it's way too long but I just had some thoughts and feelings I felt relevant to things today and wanted to get  them out.

Love you. <3 Marcus

[nerdygaymormon]

How do you think the Equal Rights Amendment will change and effect the church if it is passed?

It may surprise you to know there was a time when Church leaders were in favor of an Equal Rights Amendment, but in the 1950′s that began to change. And by the time the ERA was passed by the Congress in 1972, the Church was firmly opposed. 

It’s not expected that there will be any direct impact on churches. Religious liberty is enshrined in the US Constitution, no one from the government is going to force our church to ordain women to the priesthood. 

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has said many times it supports many of the ideas of those who support the ERA, but that the Church opposes the ERA on moral grounds. 

Why would the Church be opposed to this amendment? The Church teaches that men & women are different and have different God-given roles, especially within the family. The ERA would make us unisex under the law and erase those differences. If the ERA passed, would men continue to be head of the family and be the provider and women remain as nurturers of the children? 

To the Church’s chagrin, US society changed. Many things the Church feared might happen if the ERA passed, have come to be. Abortion & same-sex marriages are legal, most women are employed outside the home, and divorce became easier to get. 

These societal changes have affected the Church. Further changes in society that the ERA might solidify is what worries the Church leaders. 

Women are used to having positions of authority in the workplace. Women are no longer reliant on the man as provider, if he’s abusive or not meeting her needs, she can leave. Then they come to church and men are firmly in control and it feels strange.

This empowerment of women in society has indirectly lead to changes at church. There are leadership positions for women on missions, women are more included in decision making at the ward level in ward council, and women can be witnesses of gospel ordinances. I believe the 2019 changes to the temple ceremony also are influenced by our changed society. Women don’t have to make a covenant to their husbands but instead can covenant directly with God, just like the men. And in the sealing ceremony, the implication that the woman was owned by the man is gone, now they both give themselves to each other. 

These changes would’ve been unthinkable to Church leaders in the 1970′s & 1980′s. 

Could the ERA or the Equality Act (an amendment being considered to Civil Rights legislation) increase the speed at which society adjusts to accept & embrace LGBTQ individuals? And if so, what changes might it cause future leaders to make in the Church?

________  

You asked what are some changes in the Church I think could happen if the ERA passes. Here’s some ideas of changes that could happen as society progresses (and that shift will happen more quickly if the ERA becomes part of the Constitution).

Women ordination to the priesthood

Opening up presidencies to men & women, including Sunday School and counselors in bishoprics and the Primary

More talks about Heavenly Mother and her role in heaven and in our lives

Accepting same-sex marriages at church (even if not sealed in temple)

Less emphasis on gender roles and more inclusion of trans, nb & genderfluid people

More time given to women speakers at General Conference, and doing away with a session for men and a session for women

More artwork in the church bldgs of women, especially as leaders

More men serving in Primary, Nursery and Music callings

Increased opportunities for men to socialize

A relaxing of clothing standards at Church

Girls joining the boys in passing the Sacrament, being ushers, and holding the microphone for blessings

Mission President’s Wife gets an official title to show she serves together with her husband as Mission President. 

Doing away with special leadership positions for Sister Missionaries, instead they could be called to be District or Zone Leaders and oversee both male & female missionaries. 

Aaronic Priesthood theme changed to mention Heavenly Parents

Women can be sealed to more than one man, just like men can be sealed to more than one woman. It’s already this way after they die, why can’t it be this way while they’re alive?

[selfmademen]

Questioning

Hello all you lovely trans and nb folks! I have a question. I’ve been struggling with my gender for over a year now, on and off (I’m very good at ignoring my problems when I’m too stressed) and I’m still quite confused. I’m not sure if I’m bigender, genderfluid, or transmasc. I realize discovering this takes time, therapy, and research, but I’m hoping to get some input from actual people as well.

When I look at an attractive cis guy I think “Oh he’s cute” and move on. I don’t want to be him. When I meet a trans guy, I get this very stressful ache in my chest. I don’t just want pecs instead of breasts, broader shoulders, and a beard (though I hella want those things too). I want the top surgery scars too.

From what I understand (and please correct me if I’m wrong) this is not typical of being bigender or genderfluid.

I don’t expect all of you to say HEY JAY YOURE DEFINITELY TRANS but I’m interested to hear if this is similar to the experiences of others. I’m just a nerd trying to do their research.

Being trans would, obviously, have major implications on my life (my marriage would be over, for one), so even if I realize I’m trans tomorrow, I won’t be able to come out or transition for awhile.

If you have any insights you may not want to make public, feel free to DM me. Book recommendations would also be appreciated.

Thank you lovelies!!

--

Hey Jay, it really does sound to me like you might be trans. There is no typical experience of being trans or nonbinary as everyone experiences these things differently, and sometimes it can take years for people to have these feelings. 

I would consider perhaps looking into gender therapists in your area, someone who has experience with people questioning their identity. They could help offer some valuable insight and help you with the stickier parts of your situation. 

Good luck, and if any followers have some insight, feel free to share!

[ruinedrainbowpooka]

Hi, I’m a trans-masc nb and a ????. idk. Low attraction pan, grey ace, something.

I don’t personally see a problem with this. The main difference between the incubi and succubi normally is one is male, the other is female. It was afaik that incubi like being on top whereas succubi like being on the bottom. So right there you could have a lady incubus, a male succubus, an nb one, an agender one. You could also easily have a genderfluid one cos maybe one day they wanna be on top, the next they don’t. Since it’s become male or female instead of on top / on bottom, that still gives plenty of space for an incubus to be nb. And there’s no reason for them to not be bi/pan/omni. 

I think them being morally grey instead of evil is a good choice. I’m p sure the main character in Lost Girl was morally grey (I got distracted and never finished the show). But I also tend to look at the idea of them as more morally grey.

And yeah, putting a non-demon pan and/or genderfluid character to “offset” implications isn’t a bad idea.

YMMV with other trans and/or nb people.

Okay, weird question: I'm writing a book, and one of the main characters is an incubus. Now, from my research on demons, they kinda seem like genderfluid pansexuals. Is it offensive to write my demon character as nb and pan? I'm not trying to demonize actual people who are nb or pan, but that's kinda how demons seem to me. Could I write that, or would it be hurtful? The demon is a main character, but they're morally ambiguous, so I'm not really sure if it's offensive or not.

Hello! I’d say you’re probably fine, especially since your character is morally grey and not outright evil. If you want to be on the safe side, you could add a non-demon pan and/or genderfluid character to “offset” any bad implications. Best of luck on your book! :) I welcome any other stances or inputs from followers, especially if you’re pan and genderfluid! I’m only one of those so my expertise is limited.

[pickingstars-blog1]

While your commentary on Moffat's DrWho progressiveness has good points, he's never been good with nonbinaryness or the suggestion of it. This new Dr is a win for women, not genderfluid people. The Dr's switching from a cis man to a cis women, and probably going to start calling themself a women on the basis of their body-type ie the opposite of progressive. Moffat's done a LOT, but not in this area. As a nb person, DrWho is painfully binary, but obvious because of all the obvious missed opportu

Hiya!

I think you’re definetly right, mostly! Though I’d argue that this is still definetly a win for gender-fluid people, (The Doctor is now gender-fluid, that’s 100% confirmed and indisputable. I think they’re now the first ever gender-fluid character on mainstream British TV. For such a historic, iconic British character, one of such huge importance to British pop culture, this isn’t anything other than a win!), you’re definetly correct in that gender-fluidity and non binary issues aren’t suddenly interchangable though, I shouldn’t have sort of intrinsicly linked the two together, so I’ll go and edit my post right now to reflect that - not sure what that’ll do ultimately; that post has already gained all the traction it’s going to get, but hopefully that helps a little!

I’ll disagree that Jodie Whittaker in the role is ‘the opposite of progressive’ though. Again, I’m not non-binary or trans so forgive me if this is out of line for me to say, and if it is, let me know and I’ll amend what I say here, but I think this comes down to the fact that Time Lords don’t really recognize the concept of being cisgender as we do. To them, gender is a fluid thing that changes from regeneration to regeneration. It’s as malleable as dying your hair or getting a tan. They’re an alien race, after all, and their self-described concepts of gender are going to be completely different to ours. Perhaps it’s less thoughtful from an out-of-universe perspective to suggest that The Doctor’s gender identity changes every few years alongside their body-type, it’s certainly not a perfect way of reflecting human concepts of gender, but it’s certainly not unprogressive either. Moreover, within the fiction itself, were Thirteen as-played-by Jodie Whittaker to be a trans-male with gender dysphoria, the question of why he couldn’t just regenerate to fix his gender dysphoria would surely be the obvious one to ask! (Not to mention the question of why Jodie Whittaker, a cis-woman, is playing a trans-male in the first place).

Also important is to take a look at are the real world implications of giving a woman this role. From now on, we have a mainstream role on TV that can literally go to anyone of any gender. Every few years this role will be recast and it will literally be open to everyone to audition for. A huge, career-making, sci-fi role is now perfectly gender-netural! That is massive in the casting world, a major, major victory for all British actors in the industry, and is undeniably groundbreaking, progressive stuff! The impact of Thirteen’s casting on the acting world cannot be understated. 

Ultimately I also think this is an issue that comes down to the actor in question. I think we’ll only get a non-binary, they/them pronoun using Doctor when a non-binary, they/them pronoun using actor is cast. The Doctor is ultimately a personal reflection of the actor who plays them, that’s whats so wonderful about the part, and as Jodie Whittaker is cisgender, so too will her Doctor be a cisgender woman, I don’t see anything wrong with that, and I definetly think it’s unwise to criticise her and Chris Chibnall for making that decision. I’d love for a non-binary actor to play The Doctor in the future, and if/when that happens, we will look back to Jodie Whittaker’s casting as being a pivotal, barrier-breaking moment in making that happen!

I’m painfully aware that I’ve been talking for far too long about a topic I know not nearly enough about, so if anyone who does know more about non-binary issues wants to contribute please please do, I’d hate to think I’m sort of shouting into the void being insensitive and getting things wrong! 

Thanks for the ask!

x

[batmansymbol]

couple quick updates

hey y’all - a couple quick things

1) i left twitter. i was getting addicted to it, it was changing my sleep and behavioral patterns to the point where it was freaking me out. i would put SelfControl on my browser and find myself typing it into the browser every thirty seconds, and then i would resort to my phone, and then i would block it on my phone but find myself instinctively unblocking it. i hated that. i’m trying to get healthy. so.

2) i’m on deadline, sorry i’ve been so inactive!!! argh

3) a few weeks ago (ish?) an aroace reviewer on twitter discussed the aroace rep in 7WWL, and i wanted to put my apology up here too now that i’m off twitter:

i’m mortified that i didn’t realize that the aroace character’s name, valentine, would obviously read like a jibe at his romantic orientation. it was a huge oversight not to consider how this tied into his identity as an aroace kid. i’m sorry for being so thoughtless.

i’ve also talked a little bit before about my regret for not having the rep on the page. the onus was on me to make the representation textually clear regardless of whether the character embraces the label. i’m very sorry about this.

4) (note: my knowledge of this discussion is mostly secondhand so i’m sorry if there are accuracy errors) apparently there are folks saying that the main character in Noteworthy, Jordan, is nonbinary? she isn’t. I want to clarify that pretty hard in advance of the novel. she questions being cis at one point but decides definitively that she’s a girl, & the novel is about the implications of binary gender in toxic masculinity and femininity specifically. i didn’t feel that a nonbinary awakening story was mine to write. i want readers to have those stories from nb authors, not some cis girl (me).

there’s a little bit more on the Noteworthy trans & nb rep here, question #1. 100% up to individual readers whether this approach to the trans community’s representation felt too anemic to be appropriate, obviously. but if you’d heard this rumor, please don’t tell folks that Jordan is nb. there’s a great list of YA with trans characters here (scroll all the way down) if you're looking for a book with a trans mc to recommend. another, longer list of nonbinary, genderqueer, and genderfluid fiction & memoir is here.

5) I will write my publisher about changing their back-cover tagline that implies Jordan might be genderqueer, genderfluid, or nonbinary. I’m also going to ask about re-including the on-page aroace rep in 7WWL, as the term was removed during editing. These things are obviously not possible for existing printed copies, but I have my fingers crossed that they can be changed in future printings.

6) I should also note for LGBT+ readers that although Noteworthy features a QWOC as its lead and QPOC supporting characters, neither it nor 7WWL feature stable queer relationships. I’m working on building a list I’ll keep online that will include this sort of info (trigger warnings, content clarifications).

thanks, r

[melody-garnet]

(Sorry if this out of line to ask) I was curious - do you think your nb amab friend behaves socially at all differently than they would if they hadn’t come to the realization of their gender identity? Is it more difficult to have those important conversations about how their socialization influences them bc of how their gender complicates that? Or is it easier since they’ve probably explored gender implications more deeply than most?

Lemme start by saying i’m hardly an expert of any of these topics other than the fact that i often joke about accidentally collecting nb friends since my current count of acquaintances coming out as nb before or after befriending them is at, like, 8 or 9. Anyway so first of all I think everyone should have conversations about how socializations dependent upon assigned sex at birth influence social behaviours. There are gendered ways of conversations that have been attested in *toddlers*, when kids are only just expressing themselves comprehensibly. These behaviours rare programmed early, run deep and are hard to get rid of. It’s kind of ridiculous.

Pure speculation, but i suspect it’s actually one of those things that make it harder for trans people to connect with their cis gender companions due to its subtlety. “Fitting in” includes conversation style, so to mesh better with a mixed gender group or a single gender group (i.e. the conditions of conversation) you’re almost forced try to copy that style consciously or subconsiously, temporarily or permanently. 

I do believe trans people or nb people, like my nb amab friend, would absolutely have behaved and conversed differently if they hadn’t considered their identity. Mostly because by reconsidering their identity, looking things up, accepting themselves and seeking out like-minded friends, they changed their 'group’ and the conditions of conversation. And by changing their environment, they created an impetus to change their behaviour and conversation styles. 

The pitfall is that pre-conditioned behaviours and conversational styles are often considered disruptive to the other gender, making it hard to ‘fit in’ if you have a more ‘male’ or ‘female’ style than your peers. 

Unless it’s something you actively work on or unless your conversation partners change dramatically, that shit doesn’t change easily. Sadly it’s one of those things that’s hard to pinpoint for people around you and for yourself. 

On the one hand it’s easier to discuss these things with trans people because they are aware of gender constructs, gender roles, and subconscious social conditioning. You have a starting point, a foundation of shared knowledge and a willingness to question. 

But on the other hand it’s hard because like....what if you remind them of the impact of their wrongly assigned gender, which could potentially be hurtful in itself? 

Having these conversations is double hard for everyone when the person is trans amab but the space is afab or cis female, because the latter are generally taught not to point out these conversational faux pas and just like...stew in silence or complain about it to other people. Further complications have to do with feminism. Do you fault people for their amab conditioning because it echoes patterns that are sexist or dismissive of female perspectives and culture? Do you fault your own conditioning because it makes you sensitive to theirs? 

Being nonbinary or genderfluid complicates things, even further. Like, what, do they pick a gender style and try to emulate it regardless of conversational conditions? Do they have to be conscious of the majority gender in every group and act accordingly?

I don’t really have a solution. Honestly, the least hurtful way to go about it  - according to personal guesstimation - is to consider all of these questions yourself and then ask: is this certain behaviour that I want to discuss really a gendered thing, or not? If it’s gendered, consider your own gendered behaviours and start the conversation by bringing those up first. “Wow, recently I realized I keep doing X disruptive thing, isn’t it funny how so many of my gender do that? What if it’s like, a gendered thing? Do you think you have a thing like that?” and then try to make THEM realize they’re doing Y thing which is disruptive but probably originates in their assigned gender conditioning. If it’s a personal thing, like...just try to address it as a personal thing. A good friend shouldn’t take offense if you word it right and explain why you’re bringing it up.

 God knows i interrupt people way too easily to this day, but ever since it was pointed out to me, I’m aware, I try to work on it and when I notice that I’ve done it again, I try to apologize. Hell, it’s probably a side-effect of having mostly male peers before elementary school. But i don’t see that conversation as a rejection and more of a jumping-off point to stay aware of how subconsious patterns interact with other people.  (also, to be quite honest, I never had to have that convo with the amab nb friend bc I moved back in with my parents when I graduated and it’s really hard to keep in touch with all my uni friends.)

[transstudiesarchive]

#NBNovember

By Elijah Wennstrom

On November 6th, 2017, agender comic artist and colorist Ray Nadine started the hashtag NBNovember on Twitter. It was created in direct response to the treatment of nonbinary artists during the duration of the Visible Women hashtag in March, which was about finding and boosting the voices of women in the comics industry. Later in the tag's life, a sort of asterisk was added on as #VisibleNB. The idea was then to boost the voices of anyone in the comic industry who was not a man.

A lot of nonbinary creators were grateful for the additional tag, but it did not sit well with others. The implications of nonbinary folks being “basically women” or “women plus” caused discomfort, and some found it also contributed to the idea that only DFAB individuals can be nonbinary. What follows is screencapped images of Nadine's original tweets, as well as a transcription.

[Transcription: Ok, so I’m gonna try to start a thing, I’ve been thinking about it since #VisibleWomen a while back I voiced my opinions back then on irt a #VisibleNB tag being made on the same day as #VisibleWomen, but I’ll say it again #NBNovember I don’t want to be conflated with #VisibleWomen as an agender person. #NBNovember I want my own space & visibility, & don’t want to speak over women either. #NBNovember I get the intent of #VisibleNB obviously - #NBNovember But being on the same day as #VisibleWomen just reinforces a sentiment of “this is for AFAB ppl only” #NBNovember & 1. #NBNovember is for any NB person. 2. I don’t want my agender-ness to be associated w me being AFAB. Just don’t Plus, it was confusing for NB ppl who did use the #VisibleWomen tag for a #VisibleNB tag to crop up hours later. #NBNovember NB ppl deserve visibility too, & not visibility that triggers dysphoria tbh #NBNovember Just as women deserve their own space for visibility too. #NBNovember Anyway, I’m gonna be RT’ing creators using the #NBnovember tag, pls join in too! End transcription]

What came after was close to a solid month of nonbinary artists and creators being able to share and lift up the work of themselves and others in their own space.

Under the read more break, I’m going to post a (incomplete) collection of the artists that posted in the tag. Each will include their name, pronouns and/or self descriptions (if given), what kind of work they do, and where to find it. Twitter’s format is such that things are buried quickly and easily, and I believe it would be worthwhile to separately link as many of the creators as possible.

Reena, (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Natee Puttapipat, non-binary (they/them), illustrator - Twitter, Wordpress [Name not given], disbled trans immigrant (they/he), wig maker, illustrator, makeup artist - Twitter, Instagram Tori, (they/them), illustrator, animation grad - Twitter, Tumblr Quinn Spence, enby (they/them), 3D/2D artist - Twitter, Portfolio site Ash, lesbian person (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr (art tag) Nova, fine arts latinx student (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr, Ko-fi, Portfolio Carrie, (pronouns not specified), doodler - Twitter, Tumblr, Ko-fi Xzoni, (any pronouns), visual artist - Twitter J Workman, enby (they/them), graphic designer, illustrator, motion designer - Twitter, Etsy, Instagram Shan Murphy, (pronouns not specified), comic artist, illustrator - Twitter, Instagram, Portfolio, Ko-fi, Patreon Sheb, nonbinary (they/them), comic artist - Twitter, Comic, Comic Patreon Ame, blind agender enby (they/them), illustrator - Twitter, Site, Chai, queer (they/them), comic artist, illustrator - Twitter, Patreon Kiernan Sjursen-Lien, (they/them), writer, animator, comic artist - Twitter, Tumblr Dirk, (he/they), comic artist, portrait artist - Twitter, Comic Site Joiku, (they/them), character design, visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Charlie, (they/them), animator, illustrator - Twitter, Ko-fi Brigitte Woltjen, (pronouns not specified), story board artist/revisionist - Twitter, Site Ty, (pronouns not specified) visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Ana Mardoll, (Xie/She/He), writer - Twitter, Site Sam Wilson, nonbinary (they/them), writer, artist, game dev - Twitter, Site Dee S. (she/they), cartoonist - Twitter, Site Addy, NB (they/them), writer, cosplayer - Twitter Dani, (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Dax, (fey/fem), software engineer, writer - Twitter, Site, Books link Julian K Jarboe, (they/them), writer, sound designer - Twitter, CuriousCat Rae White, genderqueer (they/them), writer - Twitter, Patreon Tiff, demigirl (they/she), musician, writer, game dev - Twitter, Patreon Milly, (they/she) visual artist - Twitter Mia Siegert, (pronouns not specified), writer - Twitter, Site Aleksi, (he/they), illustrator, graphic designer - Twitter, Tumblr, Ko-fi Z, (they/he) visual artist, fiber artist - Twitter PD, Non-Binary (they/them), visual artist - Twitter [Neven?], (il/they), visual artist - Twitter Hamisti, Brazilian genderfluid person (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Qynce, transmasc NB (they/them) comic artist - Twitter, Patreon Hallopino, gender-fluid (pronouns not specified), writer, visual artist - Twitter, Site Wallis, genderfluid NB (she/her) comic artist - Twitter, Comic site Reen/Ren, nb Lao american (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter Leãozinho, non binary Brazilian (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter Chy, (pronouns not specified), photographer, visual artist - Twitter MVF, (she/her), cartoonist - Twitter, Ko-Fi, Weebly Danny, (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Max, nonbinary (they/them), visual artist - Twitter Tara, (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter Kendra/ABC, (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Em, autistic demiboy (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter Gum, nb (any pronouns but she/her preferred), visual artist - Twitter Caro, NB (she/he/they), visual artist - Twitter Cody, (they/he), visual artist - Twitter Cal, korean nb (they/them), illustrator - Twitter, Tictail [Name not given], (they/them), cosplayer, visual artist, seamstrex - Twitter Mattie, nonbinary (they/them), studio art student, animator, 3D modeler - Twitter, Tumblr Kyle, queer (they/them), feelance illustrator, comic artist - Twitter, Site Miranda, NB (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter, Sein, enby (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Itzel/Gaby, gender fluid latinx (pronouns not specified), graphic designer, illustrator, cosplayer - Twitter, Facebook M, chinese american (she/they), illustrator, concept artist - Twitter, Tumblr Sage, genderqueer (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Weebly Ash Ezra, (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Ko-fi Felix A. Rachelle, queer, disabled, nb (they/them), comic artist, illustrator - Twitter, Site Bonn/Percy, trans (they/them), fine arts student - Twitter, Tumblr Perci, queer (they/he), visual artist - Twitter, Patreon, Ko-fi Lu, (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Lia, (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Redbubble Alexa, nb (pronouns not specified), animator, story artist - Twitter, Site Len, brazilian, gay (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Manda, lesbian (they/them), visal artist - Twitter Moura, queer (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter J, sapphic enby (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Casey/Bernard, (it/its), visal artist - Twitter, Instagram, Tumblr LB, (pronouns not specified), writer, visual artist - Twitter, Linktree Cookie, nb (they/them), illustrator - Twitter Vin, fluid nb-demiguy (he/they) cartoonist, cosplayer - Twitter, Tumblr Scribe, nonbinary (pronouns not specified) writer - Twitter, Tumblr Dup/Kobuddy, (they/them), streamer - Twitter, Youtube Atlas/Isaac, neutrois (pronouns not specified) visual artist - Twitter Lany, (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Kale, (they/she), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Sam, demi/nb peurto rican (she/her or any pronouns), visual artist - Twitter, Storenvy Mychal, black queer (they, she/he on occasion but ask first), writer - Twitter Myrseyy, non binary (they/them), comic artist - Twitter, Comic site Amore/Syph, nb (pronouns not specified) visual artist - Twitter Holly McGillis, (they/them), writer, illustrator - Twitter, Site Hailey, (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter, Ko-fi Elijah, demiboy (he/they), comic artist, illustrator - Twitter, Instagram, Tumblr [Name not given], queer (they/them), DJ, musician - Twitter, Soundcloud Eric, (she/they), illustrator - Twitter, Ko-fi Gibby, nonbinary (she/they) freelance artist - Twitter, Weebly, Tumblr John, nb (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr [warning for flashing images through tumblr link] C, enby (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter, Instagram, Tumblr Mik, (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Ko-fi Gum, agender (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter, Carrd Void, (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Alwyn, genderfluid lesbian (they/them), visual artist - Twitter Skye, (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter Sheila, (they/them), comic artist - Twitter, Comic Tumblr Rae, queer (pronouns not specified) visual artist - Twitter Sal, agender (they/them) cartoonist - Twitter Jo-Robo, desi/goan, queer (they/them) visual artist, game dev - Twitter, Dev Tumblr, Itch.io Warden, nonbinary masc (he/him) writer, game dev - Twitter, Itch.io, Site Dani, mexican canadian (any pronouns) cartoonist - Twitter, Carrd Vi, non-binary (they/them), painter - Twitter, Ko-fi Meghan, (pronouns not specified), illustrator - Twitter, Tumblr Christian Dobbins, NB (he/him), animator - Twitter, Site Bri Wood, biracial (pronouns not specified) writer - Twitter, Site G, nonbinary (they/them) comic artist - Twitter, Comic site, Patreon Pookie, nb lesbian (they/them), writer, visual artist - Twitter Alex, nonbinary trans guy (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter Sol, agender (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter, Carrd Tegan, androgynous (he/she/they) visual artist - Twitter, Listography Mia, queer Nicaraguan American (they/them), animator, illustrator - Twitter, Ko-fi, Portfolio Brendon, genderfluid transmasc (he/they), illustrator - Twitter, Ko-fi Peach, autistic (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Carrd Vi, (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr [Name not given], agender (they/them) visual artist - Twitter, Deviantart Stevie, nb lesbian (they/them), visual artist - Twitter Rel, nonbinary (they/them) comic artist - Twitter, Ko-fi Reymo, genderless (it/its), illustrator - Twitter, Carrd Sproo, NB Korean (pronouns not specified), comic artist, illustrator - Twitter, Tumblr Murphy, queer epileptic (pronouns not specified), writer, video colorist - Twitter, Site Sara Duvall, latinix (they/them), comic artist, illustrator - Twitter, Site Speedo, nb (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter Ame, (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Kat, Estonian (they/them) - Twitter, Site Ophelia, canadian, disabled, non-binary femme (pronouns not specified), stamp artist - Twitter, Ko-fi, Paypal Erik/Piney, (he/they), illustrator - Twitter, Listography Kat, queer nb (they/them) poet - Twitter Linky, agender (they/them), illustrator - Twitter, Instagram Rae, enby (they/them), illustrator - Twitter, Ko-fi Ark Revner, queer (pronouns not specified) illustrator, sequential artist - Twitter, Instagram Gag, (they/them), visual artist - Twitter Pierce, trigender (any pronouns), jewler, visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Mira, Finnish, non-binary (they/them), printmaker, visual artist - Twitter Kali, Bahamian, nonbinary (pronouns not specified), illustrator - Twitter Rosemary, agender (they/them), visual artist - Twitter, Tumblr Chie, (she/they), comic artist, musician - Twitter, Store, Comic site Ciel, NB (pronouns not specified), illustrator - Twitter, Ko-fi, Patreon Bennett, (they/them), illustrator - Twitter Kor, (pronouns not specified), 3D artist/animator - Twitter, Tumblr Rob, (he/him), writer, editor - Twitter, Comic site Kass (they/them), comic artist, illustrator - Twitter, Comic site, Listography Arlyis (pronouns not specified) animator - Twitter, Redbubble Reese, (they/he), visual artist - Twitter Jessica, (any pronouns), visual artist - Twitter, Instagram Crabs, agender (they/them) visual artist - Twitter Hayden, nonbinary (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter Ollie, nb transfemme (they/she/he), visual artist - Twitter Dey, black, (pronouns not specified), visual artist - Twitter Namorado, queer (they/them), illustrator - Twitter, Tumblr, Instagram