#Also it's not like Jason wanted Joker killed either when he returned

[violent138]

why do you think Bruce doesn't go after Joker when he killed Jason?

Hello! Don't know if you're part of the same anon that asked the previous two questions/you've all been different all along but it's great seeing you again/first time.

Anways I'm assuming you don't mean go after Joker as in tried to arrest him (because that did happen), but rather murdering Joker.

And unlike my usual essays, for this one I just think Bruce blamed himself more than he blamed Joker for it, and he did make a valiant effort at destroying himself. Also he learnt this lesson with Joe Chill already, murdering Joker would mean nothing.

[puppetwoman17]

Would you ever expand upon your joker junior thoughts more? I think that was such a well written idea and would love to hear what else you think about it

Oh my god yes. 100000% YES!

That post before was more of an idea vomit, didn’t cover all of what I thought, so I’m happy to hear someone wants to hear more.

So, JJ’s always been a tough convo for Tim. Obviously. But it’s not just because of how traumatizing the Joker can be, or about the shocks and psychological torture. It also reminds him of a grim time in his life. With Bruce still going through the motions post-Jason’s death, and Dick frequently spending all his time in Bludhaven, he hadn’t been watched much. Save for Babs, ofc.

That’s actually why they’re so close. She’s much more emotionally competent thanks to her dad, lol.

JJ wasn’t only a big thing for Tim, but for Gotham too. In a place like this, it wasn’t hard for whispers from the Joker’s men to travel to civilians and cops. Everyone knew why Robin was nowhere to be seen. Everyone knew why Batgirl looked the way she did, agitated and worried. Everyone knew why the cops searched that same warehouse over and over, never allowing anyone inside.

Which was also why no one was happy to see Nightwing, very obviously the first Robin, return after yet another sabbatical in Bludhaven. Of course, that stopped a little after everyone collectively realized that, oh crap, he doesn’t even know!

This begins a collective effort by the more clear-minded people of Gotham to NOT disclose anything JJ related. There has to be a reason, right? No way were they going to force Robin #3 to disclose anything he didn’t wait to. It didn’t hurt that a year or two later, a mysterious figure named Oracle began effectively making every news article or picture related to JJ disappear.

Everyone holds their breaths for the next few months. What if what happened to the second Robin happened to him? What if he was too crippled to go back out?

As the Batfamily grows bigger, it becomes way clearer that Robin #3 hasn’t said a WORD. Not even after they grow closer, when the screaming and murder attempts and arguments cease. He doesn’t say a word, so no one else does either.

Tim goes to great lengths to medicate himself against any variant of Joker venom or gas. The familiar smells just… bring things back to the surface.

He tries not to act like Jason whenever the Joker gets out of Arkham. It’s already hard for everyone to hold him back from killing the monster. Jason doesn’t need some second-rate copy of his trauma trying to get sympathy. Unlike Jason, he didn’t die. He didn’t come back differently, or lose footing on his life, his job, whatever.

It would just be better if Tim acted as aloof and concentrated as he always did. Not make a big scene, and follow Batman’s orders to a T. No need to worry anyone.

Honestly, the only reason no one notices the literal war going on in this boy’s head is because he doesn’t want to cause a scene.

Oh, and if you’re wondering what he says when one of the bats finds him the next night, still avoiding them…

Yeah, he full on denies EVERYTHING. Looks whoever it is, Jason, Steph, Dick, straight in the eye and says that what they saw was fake. Edited. Something to threaten Bruce with years ago. Tim just ran because…because…Anyway, he’s fine. Don’t worry about Tim Drake. He’s fine.

Babs groans over the comms when everyone hounds on her to tell them everything. Like hell is she gonna tell them a single thing until she has Tim’s full permission.

[lillybearrie]

Jason is tragic not because he died, because let's be honest every character dies at least once it's practically a right of passage. No it's not that he died or even that after coming back he felt that his life had no impact it ment nothing, no it's the fact that this child who spent his whole life taking care of and managing the emotions of the adults in his life, who always tried to keep a smile on his face for his parents sake who let the adults in his life project what they wanted to on to him Who spent so long being the good kid the happy robin still felt that it didn't matter the he hadn't mattered.

Jason was good when his mother invited men over and sent him on errands to keep him out of the house, jason was good when he became the sole provider for both his mother and him, jason was good when he watched his mother died, jason was good when Bruce adopted him as a substitute for the son who left, jason was good when he heard Bruce and Dick fighting down the hall and pretended he didn't, jason was good when he learned to be robin,jason was good when he prioritized school over the mission, jason was good when he smiled and hugged batman, jason was good when he made the batman smirk, jason was good when he defended the citizens of gotham, jason was good for so long. For so long he was told to chose the high road and he did (with some notable exceptions-) for other people.

And then he wasn't good he got himself benched, and he wandered back to the narrows, he found out the woman who raised him was not the one who have birth to him and in the interest of learing more about himself he used those detective skills he learned as Robin to find his bio mom, he tried to protect her from the Joker and in return she sold him out and took a smoke break while listening to the sounds of laughter and a crowbar sattering bone, and still after that he tried to be good he tried to still save her, ignoring his own pain he dragged his broken and battered body over to untie her and he helped her to the door as he himself struggled to stay upright and then... it was locked. He failed to protect her and now he was gonna die. The building collapsed around him and he could hear Batman calling out but he couldn't respond and he died.

Then he wakes up 6 feet under and has to claw his way back to the surface, and upon eventually regaining most of himself he returns to gotham to find it unchanged. He spent his whole life being good for the sake and for the benefit of the adults in his life and even then despite everything even in his death they didn't change nothing changed Joker is still breaking out of Arkham on a bi-weekly basis, Batman is still doing the same things, and Bruce put a new kid in the robin suit and no doubt started pushing his issues on the kid like he did with both jason and dick. Jason was replaced both as Robin and in the Wayne family and everyone moved on like he was never there to begin with his life had so little impact ment so little to the people who were his whole world that the moment he was no longer right up in their faces the forgot about him.

And after being so good for so long he finally said fuck it. He said fine I'll do it myself and started cleaning up the streets his way without batman's rules and you know what? It was working. And that just reiterated in his mind that Bruce could have avenged him if he really wanted to but he didn't.

Do do you guys understand why this little shit consumes my brain yet?? Arararara

Also large parts of this are headcannon because depending on what comics you read the are several different interpretations of Jason as Robin (as well and the other characters) but this is how I like to read him because frankly it doesn't really matter if he was the happy robin or the aggressive robin because either way he died came back and is now the red hood but I personally find this read far more interesting than "he was volatile before and the only thing that stopped him from killing was batman and now that he doesn't have someone telling him not to he became the red hood because that who he always was deep down" but that's just me if you like that interpretation as it's a fairly common take in comics post-under the red hood but it's just not for me. Now do I have thoughts on his repressed rage issues and how they are not longer uh- yk repressed rage issues and how it parallels Dick (because boy howdy do i have thoughts on Richard Grayson-) absolutely i do but this post is already way to long so we aren't gonna get into that anyway like I said this is just how I chose to read Jason because I personally find it a more compelling story.

[nerdofspades]

Danny is on the run (reveal gone wrong, Vlad went too far, or GIW gaining brain cells, take your pick) and he makes his way to Gotham, the only place he can reasonably hide.

He's injured, scared, and cut off from all his resources, so he's been squating in a rundown half abandoned apartment somewhere, waiting to be healed enough to start trying to figure out something more sustainable.

And it just so happens that this place is where Jason sets up his first safe house when he returns to Gotham to become Red Hood, kill the Joker, and beat Bruce over the head with his failures.

Obviously, because Danny was squating, no one was really able to warn either of them about the other.

So Jason literally walks into the apartment with bags of essentials (including many guns) and basic furniture on the way and the first thing he sees is a half feral teenager in filthy ragged clothes, bundled in thread bare (and just as dirty) blankets just. In the corner.

Now, dirty or not, the kid is obvious Wayne bait. (Sure Bruce had only taken in three at this point, but three is a patern.) And Jason might be pit mad, but he is not kicking out a starving kid that looks like he's waiting for Jason to literally kick him. Not when he knows what it's like on the streets. Not when he knows this kid could wind up in the manor.

So he just. Moves in around him. And makes sure there's enough food for both of them that night. And the next.

He isn't adopting the kid. Definitely not. He's got revenge plans to deal with but... he's not heartless either. Kid can come and go as he pleases, but if he can provide a safe place for him to sleep and some warm food he doesn't have to steal, then he's going to.

On Danny's end. He knows there's something sketchy about this guy. He smells like shit, and he got this crappy apartment, but he also clearly has money? All the furniture is pretty clean and new (though it's all generic and nothing fancy). And of course. All the guns. Hard to ignore that part.

Danny really shouldn't stay anywhere near him. Not safe. (Not for either of them if who ever he's running from catches up and this guy shows up on their radar.)

Hell. This guy should know better than to let a total stranger hang out when he's planning something that requires that many guns.

But all he does is tell Danny he can stay and to not touch the guns.

And then he feeds Danny.

And gives him a spare key.

Neither of them speak to each other for weeks.

Danny is well enough to move. But he doesn't want to.

So he doesn't.

He comes and he goes. But he doesn't leave.

(It's a bad idea. He should leave. But. Maybe there's safety in numbers.)

And then things start shaking up. Black Mask's lieutenant are dead. Someone is starting a gang war.

But no one can figure out who's leading it. No one knows what gang.

Danny sees his... live in acquaintance come back to the apartment injured.

He sees more guns and more ammunition.

He knows it's not a gang.

Not yet.

They still don't talk.

Not until Red Hood comes in through the window one night, and Danny grabs the first aid kit and patches him up without asking any questions.

He makes the first step and tells Hood his name. Only his first name. His last isn't useful anymore.

And they talk.

They share some stories.

Edited. Half true stories.

And they talk through some stupid shit.

But eventually. They stop hiding behind half truths too. It only takes so many times covering each other for the full story to spill.

In for a penny and all that.

Jason convinces Danny he should finish his schooling.

Danny convinces Jason that maybe the new Robin isn't a part of his problems.

Jason doesn't drop his plans for revenge. Or stop blaming Bruce.

Danny refuses to go to a public school, but allows for online schooling.

Jason gets Danny a new name. A new identity. He needs one for school.

Maybe he did adopt the kid after all.

Jason really hopes Bruce never finds out.

Of course Bruce finds out.

[fractualized]

I talked about the first issue of Robin Lives! and my high hopes for it, but when #2 & 3 came around, I didn't have the time to post about them.

But this final issue… uh… Let's get into it. ("It" including gun violence and suicidal ideations.)

So as a brief recap: at the end of #3, Jason found Joker's hideout but froze when confronting him, and Joker decided to solve his Robin problem by mind-manipulating him to be a sidekick of his own: Jokey the Boy Lackey.

In #4, Joker takes his new pal to go after Dr. Stoner.

In #2, Joker pretended to be reformed but Stoner didn't buy it, expressing disappointment, which only set Joker off. And that anger reappears here, less about the offense of some nobody little man pitying him and more about insisting that nobody could actually care about the criminally insane. Of course, this scene comes off more like Joker punishing Stoner for caring— or rather, getting Jason to.

But whatever control Joker had over Jason doesn't hold.

Interesting that Joker leaves Jason alive, and Stoner too. Also, Jason is still awake in this scene, so Joker is truly not worried about him.

Compare this interaction to the opening of #3, in which Joker imagines he's watching films of old comedians with Batman, who is having a great time, and that fantasy is interrupted by an imaginary Robin, who makes fun of Joker's sense of humor. Did Joker decide that since trying to kill Robin had too many downstream effects, he should try to bring him into the joke instead? And then confronted with the real Robin's disdain for him, Joker lashes out to make him feel small? In any case, Robin has proven himself a poor fit for Joker's plans, unlike Batman.

Joker returns to his hideout to get his supplies, and he leaves a note for Batman not only with a clue to his whereabouts, but explicitly letting him know that he let Robin go!

Again with the signals that Joker regrets almost changing the game. (Though he still has, considering what happened to Barbara, which is never mentioned in this miniseries, which is disappointing. In all the brooding in #2 & 3, it's not like there wasn't room for it.)

Anyway, Bruce pulls that move where he works with a sidekick just fine until it gets too dangerous.

While Bruce goes to meet Joker, we learn that Jason has been stewing in humiliation and has had enough.

And the narration gives the first signal of how the storytelling in the last quarter of this issue is gonna go. lol

Oh, so you couldn't think of anything plausible? Anything at all? Not even, I dunno, Joker boasting to Jokey about his plan, or Jason catching sight of a map when he was in the hideout? Alright.

Anyway, Bruce finds Joker in the Miagani caves, home to the particular bat left with the note. Joker has figured out a frequency that allows him to control the bats, and he's also infected them with a psychoactive agent that he wants to unleash on Gotham.

UNLESS….

A proposal?! 😍

So it's either a swarm of infected bats or one infected Bat. Batman should forget about the dang kid, who just doesn't get the joke like they do, and join Joker!

Jason disagrees with this, which he demonstrates by popping up and shooting Joker in the chest. But we've known since #1 this doesn't end in a chest shot.

Farewell, sad clown. :(

So like Joker not planning to kill Jason, his expressions say that not only did he not expect Jason to follow through, but he was relieved when the kid did. Compare this scene to #1 when Bruce almost let him drown. Joker looked only distressed then; with Batman, he needs the game to go on. But Jason finally brings the compulsion to a stop, forever.

Bruce, of course, is upset, and he was not planning to drink Joker's toxin.

That face kills me

"WHATCHA GONNA DO OLD MAN"

When Bruce gets up to the ledge, Jason is gone. And while Arkhamverse Bruce nicely carried Joker's body out of Monarch Theater, here he seems to simply panic, per the first panel below. Which is quickly followed by a lot of shit that sure seems too easy??

Alert, alert! 🚨 WFA has breached containment again!🚨

There are versions of this that I could buy. None of those versions have Bruce simply hugging out Joker's murder within hours of him dying.

The next three pages are an unbelievable speedrun of the aftermath. Let's go one by one.

The Three Jokers-esque rundown of why Jason couldn't be held accountable for Joker's death is all fair enough. And it is in character for Bruce to take the blame for Joker's death, and boy howdy does it make the batjokes feels dance when Joker's death prompts the death of the Batman persona.

But Bruce putting all his bad bat-decisions into the dead persona doesn't really reckon with him having made all those decisions. In an earlier issue, Sara notes that Batman was a fantasy Bruce used to run away from facing his pain, and him now running into his parents' roles just feels like the same thing.

Also being told that Jason was "nearly catatonic" and not showing it is just odd.

Next page!

This page is also weird. I suppose if the logic is that Bruce's sin was bringing a child into the vigilante life and he needed to give up the cowl to atone… No, it's still weird, because Dick was also a child brought into that fight. Just writing him off as already damaged goods so Batman can stay around feels like it undermines the meaning of Bruce retiring.

I'm setting aside whether or not Dick would really want to be Batman, because I don't have a dog in that fight. But making him a Bruce clone does not feel right.

Maybe that's the point, though?? That the cycle is just starting all over again, inescapable? Is this just TKJ? 🤔

Before we follow that line of thinking, next page!

Ohhhhhhh, poor Sara. I thought you could still get out of this as a confidante. But no, you're the narrator and you're so familiar with Bruce and his family because you're ✨in love✨ now. We didn't have to do this. There's literally no point to making her a romantic interest. Sure, I can see going with her instead of an established one because they're all in the crime game and Bruce is escaping that here, but still. And don't tell me "it took years" in an attempt to gloss over how we don't even know this lady. WE DON'T KNOW THIS LADY. This development feels tacked on. I hate it.

Though I mean, Bruce only falls in love after Joker is dead. That's something. 😂

And then we have Jason getting multiple degrees related to mental health care and eventually becoming a higher up at Arkham Asylum. Way different than the Jason Todd of today, but hey, this is an alternate universe and—

what

WHAT?

Uh… 🎵 Cue game show music! 🎶 Congrats to the jaydick fans out there! You are the next batjokes!

I have no idea what to think here. You could theorize that Joker's brainwashing lingered, I guess, and influenced Jason to take his place later. Or perhaps that Jason studying mental health made him ponder the Joker too much and he "infected" himself with his late tormenter? Or are Batman and Joker truly inevitable in any universe and Jason is just helplessly compelled to take on the role?

I don't know! This all was going so well and then it just ends with a bunch of stuff that happens!

I wonder if it was always supposed to end this way? I reread all the issues today, and some of the narration is strange if #4 is indicating that the Sara telling this story exists at a point where she knows that Jason is now Joker. Like some of it you read and think, "Ohhh, the inevitability here isn't about Jason shooting Joker; it's about Jason becoming Joker." But then other parts conflict with that, like in #3 when Sara talks about Jason feeling like it's impossible to victimize others, as if it's a present fact. Clearly he does not feel that way!

Also, at the end of #3 when we saw Jokey, I was excited at the prospect of Joker seeing himself in Jason, and perhaps vice versa, and the emotional struggle that direct compare/contrast could bring. And the first couple pages get at that a little, I guess? But certainly not enough that the final two pages aren't completely out of the blue.

You could say that since Jason takes on Joker's old identity as Red Hood, he's just doing the same again here, but there's still no lead-up to it!

In the end, I guess this is just a sad story about how even when Bruce breaks away from his violent coping mechanism to really promote healing, he still fucked over his kids and it's just too late? I mean, fair enough, but still. Could've used one of those big exposition pages to at least drive more at that. 🤷‍♀️

The next mini-series I'm pinning my hopes on is the Two-Face one in December. Christian Ward stuck the landing in City of Madness, so let's see if he can do it again!

[dalekofchaos]

Friendly reminder. Bruce Wayne hung up the suit and retired after THREATENING someone with a gun and this was his reaction.

And then his immediate reaction is to shut down and close the Batcave and his only words were. "Never again"

A truly tragic, but fitting way for Bruce’s career to end. Powerful stuff. Batman's career ended the same way it began: with a desperate man wielding a gun

Batman choosing not to be weak like Joe Chill >>>> Batman going on a killing spree because fighting crime is hard.

And by the way, since Zack Snyder says his inspiration was Dark Knight Returns, I got news for you, TDKR Batman doesn't kill either.

Zack Snyder is a complete blithering fucking idiot.

his statement on Batman just lines up with what I’ve seen from all of his work. He likes the idea of the comics he makes movies out of but he doesn’t actually understand their themes. A Batman that kills is pointless. An edgy Superman is not only the most boring way to write him, but doesn’t make any sense without the wholesome one. That’s why injustice Superman/brightburn/Plutonian/omniman/homelander kind of make sense in their own ways because the original exists to compare them to.(mostly also boring though) His take on watchmen was pretty much devoid of any of the actual commentary from the graphic novel, but instead was just a dark justice league that were pretty bad at their jobs. Rorschach was just framed as a kind of unhinged Batman, but still a badass that does good, which is wildly generous compared to the way he’s originally written. I can understand turning your brain off and coasting through an action movie, but his fans are delusional if they think he does any of these stories justice. I wouldn’t take any of his comments seriously if they would stop letting him make these mediocre movies.

Zack Snyder is all flash and no substance. His films are visually stunning but utterly lacking in compelling storytelling.

The point of Batman is he cannot 'stoop to their level'. He HAS to be better, he HAS to believe these criminals can be rehabilitated, because if he kills them, he becomes just like them. With his wit, his intellect, he could future proof the city against crime ever happening by just killing the criminals before they commit crimes based on probable statistics and similar themes. But a Batman who refuses to kill is a murderer by inaction. Every time he chooses not to put Joker in the ground, he's allowed him to slaughter dozens, hundreds more, just for a laugh. Batman is equally guilty for every one of those deaths, because he could simply kill the Joker, and stop him from ever killing again. But he doesn't. Snyder saying Batman can kill, Batman SHOULD kill, is to say that without batman doing so, or being able to, he is just as bad as the villians. Except dipshit doesn't even have his Batman kill The Joker. "Oopsie daisy, Joker got out and bombed a hospital full of people, sowwwwyyyy, I put him back in jail again dunt worry TeeHeee :3". And then next week we do it all over again. OR. You kill the Joker, and he never hurts another person again. Which is why Jason Todd works so well as a counter to batman, and SHOULD be what Snyder is looking into. The reason why Zod works so well as a villain is because Humans are flawed apes who cant be trusted to govern themselves and should be conquered, and Superman, a literal God, could fix all that, but doesn't, because of Hope. Its foolish, childish even, to consider that a solution. And when placed in the vacuum of a comic book it works because you have to suspend disbelief, and forget that Superman let a city full of people die while he punched Zod through skyscrapers.

If you want Batman to kill people, just go and read one of his 1784956th copies that kill people. Go read Midnighter. Go read Punisher. Go read Moon Knight. Go read Peacemaker. Go read Nighthawk. What is stopping you?

I'm sure all those characters have brought about the peace and prosperity and the crime-free society that a "killer Batman" was supposed to. "Punisher would clean Gotham in under a week", right, just like he cleaned Marvel's New York, didn't he?

It has to be Batman specifically the one doing the killing? The number of superheroes that kill is nowadays much higher than the number of heroes who don't. Remember how Hawkeye spent the better part of his existence being the most anti-killing Avenger? Nowadays he is known as a super-assassin that "never had a non-kill rule". Should heroes who don't kill go extinct?

I like that Batman doesn't kill people. I feel no need to turn him into something he isn't like it was done to Hawkeye. If I wanted a Batman that kills, I would go and read one of the thousand "Batman who kills" out there.

Batman should not kill and should never kill.

"Gotham would be better off if Batman just killed The Joker"

You. Miss. The. Entire. Point.

Bruce Wayne lost his parents to crime and Bruce Wayne is a child who died alongside his parents and was reborn as a creature dedicated to insuring it never happened to any other child. He made a vow never to reduce himself to the criminal scum’s level or to Joe Chill’s level. He never kills for a reason.

Batman not killing is what makes him so compelling, if he kills criminals, there is no moral conflict, he is no better than the Punisher, Wolverine or any other dark edgy hero. Hell, if he starts to take a life, Batman is no better than Ra’s Al Ghul.

In the Daredevil Netflix show, Frank Castle told Daredevil this “That’s not how this works. You cross over to my side of the line, you don’t get to come back from that. Not ever.” That alone is why Batman should not kill, not even The Joker. Bruce Wayne is not Frank Castle, stop trying to make him Frank Castle. I mean…Stan Lee was absolutely disgusted when someone called The Punisher a hero, Frank Castle is a murderer, not a hero. How is this so hard for people to understand?

I don’t want to hear that Batman killed in the old comics and I don’t want to hear Elseworld stories. It’s an established fact that Batman does not kill and it’s a big part of his character.

Guess what? We already got a Bruce who killed The Joker, it happened in the Burtonverse/Schumacherverse and he was disgusted with himself. “So, you're willing to take a life.” “Long as it's Two-Face.” “Then it will happen this way: You make the kill, but your pain doesn't die with Harvey, it grows. So you run out into the night to find another face, and another, and another, until one terrible morning you wake up and realize that revenge has become your whole life. And you won't know why.”

A huge part of Bruce’s character is that he doesn’t kill, no matter what. Same with Clark. But edgelord writers from the New 52, DCEU and the Injustice abominations think it’s cool to make heroes kill. Heroes should not kill. You can’t be a hero and a killer. IT DOESN’T WORK THAT WAY!

Guess what would happen if Batman kills The Joker? The Joker wins. The Joker and Batman are each trying to prove a point to society - and really to us, the readers. The Joker wants Batman to kill him because he perfectly embodies chaos and anarchy and wants to prove a point to everyone that people are basically more chaotic than orderly. This is why he is so scary: we are worried he may be right. If the Joker is right, then civilization is a ruse and we are all truly monsters inside. If the Joker can prove that Batman - the most orderly and logical and self-controlled of all of us - is a monster inside, then we are all monsters inside, and that is terrifying. The Joker is terrifying because we fear that we are like him deep down - that he is us. Batman is what we (any average person) could be at our absolute best, and the Joker is what we could be at our absolute worst. The Joker’s claim is that we are all terrible deep down, and it is only the law and our misplaced sense of justice that keeps us in line. Since Batman isn’t confined by the law, he is a perfect test case to try to get him to "break.” The Joker wants Batman to kill a person, any person, but knows that the only person Batman might ever even remotely consider killing would have to be a terrible monster, so is willing to do this himself and sacrifice himself to prove this macabre point. Batman needs to prove that it is not just laws that keep us in line, but basic human decency and our natural instinct NOT to kill. If Batman can prove this, then others will be inspired by his example (the citizens of Gotham, but again, also the readers), just as we are all inspired every day to keep civilization running smoothly and not descend into violence, anarchy, and chaos. This ability to be decent in the face of the horrors and temptations present all around us is humanity’s superpower, the superpower of each of us. The struggle of Batman and the Joker is the internal struggle of each of us. But we are inspired by Batman’s example, not the Joker’s, because Batman always wins the argument, because he has not killed the Joker.

Batman not killing matters. Batman stories to me are the ultimate tale of turning pain and suffering into something positive. That is a story that everyone can relate to because let's be honest here. The world can suck. I've experienced and probably will always experience feelings of fear of depression of anger of angst. It's in my nature as a human being to experience those things. It's in all our nature it is what we choose to do with that pain that we all feel that defines us. Batman chose to turn all those negative emotions, he feels into a symbol that can bring people. Hope that Batman will save us from pain but more importantly hope that we can all be Batman. Why do we fall? And Batman Begins explains this best “Why do we fall sir? So that we can learn to pick ourselves up.”

Yes, Bruce Wayne is a flawed crazy person. He is at times mean stubborn and even abusive but he is still good. He is still someone we can aspire to be. We can try our hardest to be Superman but no human being can fly, but we can still try to be Batman We can all try to turn our pain into something good when I see Batman killing people or fans saying he killed before and he should kill The Joker, It pains me. It actually hurts my soul. Batman is not about finding a way to kill evil. But try to redeem it. His mission is an impossible task. Maybe he should kill people. Maybe he should kill The Joker, but what makes him fascinating what makes him a hero Is the fact that he has that moral code and stopped himself from crossing that line That's why I always looked up to Batman even as a kid despite all the adult subtext or mature themes superheroes are for kids. And killing is not Batman and it is not Bruce Wayne. This is why I hated the portrayal in the DCEU and the Burtonverse and why I really hated the implication that Batman killed The Joker in Batwoman. A Batman who kills is certainly not Bruce Wayne, that is an interpretation of Bruce Wayne that completely misses the point of Batman. It's easy to kill. Batman does not make the easy choice… Batman does not kill.

[bronzemettle]

Does Talia still have a relationship with Damian? Does she have a relationship with Batman?

in BronzeRealms, Polyamory is common among superheroes in the 21st century. Batman/Clark/Diana/Lois is a full quad. He's also married to Selina.

He's not with Talia, though. They're not enemies, but not involved. The League of Assassins, now led by Talia, is mildly reformed. Still a League of Assassins, tho. Just no longer trying to actively topple civilizations, and slightly more principled about what jobs they'll take. Talia can visit with Damian, if Damian wants her to, and for his sake the Fam will refrain from trying to capture her for her many, many (some still ongoing) international crimes. But she's not exactly sitting down for most family meals.

I will now tell big parts of the story of how things got like this.

Turning back the clock to 2006, Batman has been Batman-ing for over 3 years, but he is not known as a great fighter. He's got some passable martial arts, enough to outmatch nearly any street crooks, but primarily at this point he is the World's Greatest Detective, with some wonderful toys and a stealthy spooky cape. Dick and Barbara could either one kick his ass out of costume.

Bane comes to Gotham. He has no civilian identity to detective out, can see in the dark well enough that his stealth is useless, and isn't scared of bats. Bane arranges for Batman to be isolated from his allies and cracks his spine over his knee. Most of Gotham assumes Batman is dead. His cousin Kate takes up the mantle as Batwoman (after the short and disastrous tenure of Jean-Paul Valley). But Bats himself isn't ready to call it quits. He leaves Gotham, not telling anyone, even Dick, where he's going.

He's going to find the League of Assassins. He only heard rumors about them in his original world journeys preparing to become Batman, but now, he finally meets them. He asks to be taken in and have his back healed, and they do. He sticks to his word and stays with them, and begins his training. Talia falls in love with him, and they get together.

But this is still the League of Assassins under Ra's al Ghul, and Gotham is a target on their map. I won't say that Batman never loved Talia back, but if it's a choice between her and Gotham? It was only a matter of time. A year and change after he found them (and having become one of the more formidable martial artists on the planet), he leaves.

And here's the thing. He suspected. He knew that the League of Assassins wanted their heir. He knew Talia wasn't on any kind of birth control. He saw what might be early-months signs. But if he KNEW, he wouldn't have been able to abandon her and return to Gotham. And he needed to return to Gotham. He had a mission, and already had a family. He couldn't afford to know, so he convinced himself that he didn't, buried his guilt, and he got on the next boat.

Skipping through some stuff I'll give more details on in different posts, 2008 he takes in Jason Todd. In 2012 Jason Todd is murdered by The Joker, then his corpse is taken by the League of Assassins. 2016, Batman fights the Red Hood, finds out he's Jason resurrected by the Lazarus Pit. Jason wins the fight, but can't kill him.

The next year, 2017, Red Hood tells young Damian, Talia's son, that he knows who his father is. He brings Damian to Gotham. Damian is surprised that his father is the Batman, the legendary protector of Gotham, the very city that his grandfather has been trying to destroy for Damian's entire life. Talia comes for him, but Damian decides he wants to stay and get to know his father and the city. Against her father's wishes, Talia agrees to let him stay, and he becomes Robin and takes the full name Damian Wayne.

Ra's doesn't stand by this, and he partners with Scarecrow and Astrid Arkham, providing them with a private army, thousands of soldiers, tanks, drones, advanced technology, some of which is Batman's own gadgetry stolen by Red Hood when he was still working for them. Late 2017 the League of Assassins wages all-out-war against Gotham and a full scale military occupation. Scarecrow fits people with Fear Toxin collars to enforce his own law, with the Arkham Knight as the enigmatic enforcer of his Fear State.

(Tangent): During the fight, two of the Arkham Knight's soldiers are accidentally killed in a battle against Batman. He discovers the two had brought their son, Turner Hayes, to Gotham with them. Turner had never known that his parents were mercenaries. Batman decides to cover up the circumstances of their deaths so that Turner never has to know, and as Bruce Wayne he adopts the boy, but continues to keep him in the dark about his own identity as Batman, or all the rest of the family's hero lives. He honors Turner's parents, the first people he considers himself to have murdered (even if accidental), by protecting Turner from the world of heroes and villains altogether, just as they had, giving him the normal life that tragedy robbed Bruce himself of. (End Tangent)

Early 2018 sees the end of the Fear State, and proves the final defeat of the League of Assassins' campaign against Gotham. After his repeated failures, Talia ousts Ra's from power. He flees, along with a splinter faction of loyalists, becoming the League of Shadows based out of Infinity Island, and Talia begins instituting reforms, inspired by her son having chosen Batman's methods over the ones he was raised in.

And while Batman respects her readiness to improve the organization... she is still literally the Queen of Assassins and the last time he killed someone he adopted a kid out of guilt so no they're not getting back together.

And I think that gets us basically up to speed on why things with Talia are strained, but not hostile (mostly for Damian's sake tbf).

[a-reader-and-a-writer-for-all]

One Bad Day....Jason's Death

AI-Less Whumptober 2023: 8. Panic Attack, 12. Character Death, 23. Begging, 31. Crying, Alt. 13. Grief Fandom: Batman, Batfam, Batmom, Bruce Wayne, Jason Todd Summary: Before Red Hood rescued her, before she was in prison, before she killed The Joker, Batmom experiences one of the most devastating losses of her life. Word Count: 5587 TW: Canon Character Death, Mentions of Torture, Brief Description of Injuries, Grief, Breakdown, Tears, Anger, Character Picks Up Reader Note: This is part of the One Bad Day.... series but can be read as a one-shot (though best to be read after Part 3)Part of @ailesswhumptober's whumptober event.

Series Masterlist

It has been three days since you have heard from either Bruce or Jason and you are starting to get worried. Actually, you are way past worried—you are terrified. Something is wrong, you can feel it in your gut. A gnawing queasiness deep in your stomach that has you unable to eat or sleep while you wait for some sort of news.

Usually, you wouldn’t give this radio silence a second thought. While Bruce tries to send some sort of word as often as he can while out of town, it just isn’t always possible. Especially when he is away on this kind of work. Batman is a force of secrets and mystery. He can’t always risk finding a way to call his wife to tell her he is alright. 

You pull the blanket that is draped over your shoulders tighter around you and continue pacing. Alfred had placed it there a few ago, the last time he had come to check on you. When you had first begun to worry, the butler had remained by your side providing constant reassurance and support. But after a while, once it became clear you wanted to be alone, he retreated upstairs. Occasionally, he returned to the Batcave to bring you some food, water, or something to keep you warm, but otherwise, he had been keeping his distance. However, you know the second you call for him, he will instantly be there to get you whatever he possibly can. If only he could get you the one thing you truly wanted right now….

As if summoned by your silent wish, you suddenly hear the distant roar of a familiar engine growing louder by the second. Whirling around, a huge smile of relief on your face, you turn just in time to see the Batmobile burst into the cave and come to a stop in its usual spot. For the first time in days, you feel like you can breathe again as the driver-side door opens up and you catch a glimpse of Bruce, still in his Batman costume though he has removed his cowl and gloves.

Throwing your arms open wide as you approach the car, you exclaim, “There’s my boys!” Bruce doesn’t look at you as he climbs out of the Batmobile and walks slowly over to the passenger side. “I was just about to send out a search party. How was Ethiopia? Did you find–”

You stumble to a halt, your smile slipping from your face. An icy vice clamps down on your heart as you see Bruce lift something out of the Batmobile: a small limp figure wrapped in a torn yellow cape that reveals small glimpses of the red suit underneath through the holes and tears. Though the cape is also draped across the person’s face, you know immediately who is under it.

“No….” you gasp as your blanket slips from your shoulders to pool at your feet. “No, no, Bruce, no. Please, no.” 

As you wait for Bruce’s response, you cling to that last fragile shred of hope that it’s not what you think, that maybe he’s just hurt under there or sleeping or…or…….

But as your husband silently walks past you and lays the body on one of the nearby tables, the drawn, pained expression on his face coupled with the tender care he takes carefully arranging it is the final confirmation you need. 

Dropping to your knees, you let out an almost inhuman wail as the truth of the situation slams into you like a nuclear blast. Your baby’s gone. Jason is dead. And you have lost yet another child. 

You collapse forward, your forehead pressing hard against the cold cave floor as another wail tears through your chest. No. It can’t be true. Jason has to be alive. He has to be. Oh please, God, please don’t tell me you’ve taken my baby from me. Not again. Please.

As you continue to sob—worldless howls of grief and pain—you feel Bruce drape himself over you as if trying to shield you from this agony….but it’s too late. The damage has already been done and you have been irreparably broken.

In what seems like hours later, once you have exhausted yourself to the point you no longer have the energy or tears left to cry, Bruce sits back and pulls you carefully into his lap. As you lay curled in his arms with your head resting on his chest, you can feel his heart beating beneath you—so strong and steady—and it hits you that you will never again feel Jason’s heartbeat or hear him take a breath. All of those little signs of life you take for granted are just gone…and so is he.

Lifting your head to gaze up at your husband, you force your words through your aching throat, torn raw from all your screaming, and you ask, “What happened?” 

“The Joker,” Bruce says as he brushes a tear off your cheek. “He used Jason’s birthmother to lure him in, then he placed both of them in a warehouse that was rigged to explode. I arrived just as the bomb went off. I….I was too late to save him.”

The sound of Bruce’s voice breaking and the tears in his voice sends another jolt of pain into your heart and you nuzzle your head into his neck as you squeeze his hand. He silently squeezes back and you have to stifle a groan as you feel the bones in your hand shift and crack in his grasp, but you don’t say anything. You just let him continue to squeeze your hand long after the point it turns numb. 

You haven’t seen Bruce fall apart since the two of you lost the baby. Regardless of what heartbreaks or fights had come your way in the years since, Bruce had remained calm and stoic through it all. It’s just who he was. He was your rock, your lifeline in the roughest of waters, your source of comfort when you needed it the most—so the sight of him breaking adds another layer of grief to your own.

When he finally loosens his grip and you can tell he has regained some of his composure, you whisper, “Did he…. Did he hurt him before…?”

Bruce hesitates for a moment before murmuring, “You don’t need to know the details.” 

Which means yes. The Joker had probably tortured and beaten your baby bloody before blowing him up. Another sob threatens to tear from your lips, but you manage to quell it so it is just a whine deep in your throat. You had cried enough for the moment. Right now, you need answers and to come up with a plan. But first…you need something else.

Untangling yourself from Bruce’s arms, you unsteadily get to your feet and begin walking over to the table. Bruce leaps up when he sees what you are doing and he gently grabs your shoulders blocking your path. “Don’t. Sweetheart, just…just don’t. Trust me.”

“Let me go. I need to see him.”

You try to shrug him off but he holds you firmly in place. “No. You don’t. Don’t let that be the last image you have of him—I wish it wasn’t mine. He’s gone and seeing him like that won’t bring him back. So, I’m begging you, don’t.”

“Get out of my way, Bruce,” you growl as you glare up at your husband. “I need to see our son. I need to see what that monster did to him.”

For a moment, you aren’t sure what Bruce is going to do. His eyes flit across your face, trying to find the slightest hesitation he can grasp onto. But when he doesn’t find any, he sighs and slowly lowers his hands as he bows his head and whispers, “Please…Don’t look.”

But you have already pushed past him before he finishes his sentence.

You approach the table with a determined stride, yet you hesitate once you reach it. Jason was always a slight kid, even verging on scrawny, but he had never seemed smaller or more vulnerable than as your hand hovers over the cape still draped over him. Even that first night Bruce brought him home to you, he had so much fire and spirit in his little twelve-year-old body that his presence filled the room. Now, three years later, that fire and spirit had been extinguished and it hits you all over again how young he truly was—how young he would always be.

You feel Bruce come to stand just behind you but he doesn’t say a word. He has tried his best to stop you so now all he can do is wait for you to live with your decision and be there for the aftermath. Knowing he is right there for you gives you a renewed sense of strength and as you take a deep breath, you pull back the cape to look at your son. 

Bruce was right. You shouldn’t have looked.

Some of the damage you are expecting based on what Bruce told you. Burns litter Jay’s face and neck as well as his hands. In some places, they are light, almost invisible unless the light catches them just so. However, in other spots, the burns are so severe you can almost see down to the bone. His hands are the worst, so charred and blackened that you fear touching them despite the longing in your chest to hold his hand once more in yours. Looking at the burn patterns, it seems heartbreakingly clear that Jason had tried to protect himself from the blast by throwing his hands in front of his face…he had seen it coming.

Yet as horrible as that realization is, far worse is the damage you weren’t expecting to see on your son.

Beneath the burns and debris from the bomb, Jason’s body is broken, bruised, and bloody in ways that an explosion couldn’t have caused. One arm and leg jut out at odd angles and there are dark bruises all over his face, neck, and the parts of his torso you can see through his ruined suit. One eye is swollen and black, his nose is bent sharply to one side, and his lip is split open wide. You have seen enough blunt-force trauma up close and personal to understand what had to have caused all of this. 

Casting one last longing look at your son, you turn to face Bruce. You are visibly shaking, and when you speak, your voice is dripping with venomous fury, “Where is he?”

“Clark is tracking him down and he’ll alert me the second he finds him.”

“And then?” Bruce glances away, unable to look at you. Disbelief washes over you and you step closer to your husband. “Bruce, don’t tell me you are thinking of letting him live.”

“It’s not our place to–”

“He killed our son!” you hiss as you point to the body of the child you both loved. “Jason is—Jason is dead because of that maniac! We can’t let The Joker get away with this!”

“We won’t.” Bruce takes your face between his hands and bends over so his forehead is almost touching yours. “I swear to you, we will find him and throw him back into Arkham where he belongs.”

Wrenching from his grasp in disgust, you snarl, “For how long? A few weeks? A month if we’re lucky? Then he’ll just find another way to escape like he always does and he’ll hurt more innocent people, more people we love. How can you not see that this has to end? That it should have ended years ago.”

“My heart—” Bruce tries to take your hand but once again you snatch it away from him. “I know you don’t always agree with it, but we have a code. A code you agreed to follow when you joined me. And that code means that no matter what The Joker or anyone else does, We. Don’t. Kill. Otherwise, what makes us any better than them?”

“Maybe I don’t care about being better than them anymore. We’ve done things by the book, followed your rules, and where has that left us? Two dead children and a third who barely survived being shot. And you still talk about trusting the same system that allowed it to happen in the first place. Well, who’s next, Bruce? Who will be the next victim in your moral war? Alfred? Dick?....Me? Whose death will it take for you to realize that this won’t end unless we make it end?”

Bruce stares at you as if he is looking at a stranger and not his wife of ten years. Shaking his head slightly, he says, “I understand you’re hurting right now and you’re not thinking clearly. But once some time has passed and the feelings aren’t as raw, you’ll—”

“I’ll what? Forget my son is dead?” you snap.

“You know that’s not what I meant.”

“Well, what did you mean? Give it time and things will just go back to normal? That this pain will fade and I won’t care that my son was murdered?”

“Our son.”

“What?”

“Our son,” Bruce says. His voice has a sharp edge to it that momentarily takes you aback. “You keep saying ‘my son’ like you’re the only one who lost him. I know what you and Jay had was special but that doesn’t mean I didn’t love him too, or that I’m not in agony right now. I had to watch, helplessly, as that warehouse exploded knowing I was too late to save him. Then, I dug with my bare hands for almost an hour through the wreckage praying for a miracle only to find—” Bruce presses his hand over his eye as he takes a long, slow, shaking inhale then continues “And then I had to fly home watching vigil over our son’s body, all the while dreading this moment. Knowing I was coming home to shatter the woman I love. But the only thing that made that thought bearable was knowing we could mourn together and lean on each other for comfort. Yet all you can focus on is revenge and murder!”

“No, Bruce. I’m focusing on keeping the family I still have safe. I’m focusing on protecting this city just as you swore to do. I’m focusing on ending terror and chaos in the streets. And if that means one psychotic clown has to die to make that happen, then so be it.”

“We do not cross that line. Ever. No matter who we think deserves it. That’s just how things have to be.”

“Don’t you get it! Jason would still be alive if you had just—” All of your fury evaporates instantly and you inhale sharply as you realize what you were about to blurt out. Bruce’s expression hardens into a stone-cold mask usually reserved for the most lowsome of criminals and, stumbling back, you stutter, “I-I mean…I—”

“If I had what? Say it. Say it!” Now it is your turn to not meet his eye yet he pushes on. “You were going to say that if I had just killed The Joker years ago, Jason would still be alive!”

“I didn’t mean it. It just slipped out,” you whisper. “I know this isn’t your fault, Bruce. You told him not to go but I encouraged him to do what he thought he had to do. That I would support whatever decision he made.” Your voice cracks as you choke out, “I sent our baby off to his death, not you.”

It is the thought that has been nagging at the back of your head since you saw Bruce lift Jason’s body from the Batmobile. The unbearable truth you’ve been unable to face. Bruce had known something felt off about the situation and he insisted Jason stayed home. But when Jason came to you saying he had found his birthmother and needed to go see her, you put your foot down and forced Bruce to take him. If you had just listened to Bruce, if you had just really examined the facts instead of wanting to show Jason you were supportive, your son would still be alive.

Suddenly, it felt like the walls of the Batcave were closing in on you and you couldn’t catch your breath. Stumbling back a few steps, you say, “I-I can’t do this. I have to get out of here.”

The anger in Bruce’s face disappears as quickly as it appeared. He reaches out to you with a soft, “Sweetheart—” but you continue to back away.

“No. No, I need to go. I-I need to be alone.”

Bruce nods slowly. “Alright. That’s okay. Why don’t you go take a long shower and lay down and I’ll take care of things down here. I’ll come check on you when I’m done.”

You nod back and hurry over to the stairs leading up to the manor. But just as you begin to climb them, you pause and mumble, “I’ll be in Jay’s room.” then flee up the stairs before Bruce can stop you.

Once back in the manor, you move in an almost trancelike state towards the bedrooms. As you pass the kitchen, you hear a soft sniffling and you realize Alfred must have come down into the Batcave at some point and seen what happened. You have been so preoccupied with your own grief, you completely forgot about the butler who loved Jason almost as much as you and Bruce did. 

Part of you wants to go back and join him. After all, Alfred always knows how to fix anything and everything and maybe, somehow, he can fix this too. Yet as much as it pains you to admit, there are just some things even Alfred Pennyworth can’t do. So you continue walking.

When you reach Jason’s room, you don’t even pause before opening the door and shuffling in. In one fluid movement, you collapse onto your son’s bed and roll over, dragging his comforter with you until you are cocooned beneath the blanket. 

It seems impossible that just three nights ago you were sitting on this very bed with Jason next to you as he told you about how he had been tracking down his birthmother. He had been so scared to tell you for fear he would hurt your feelings. But you had just gathered him into your arms and pressed your lips into his hair as you promised him you would always be his “Ma” regardless of what happened on his search. That you would always love him….

Tears you did not think you could still cry began slipping silently down your cheeks. What would you have done differently if you had known that was the last time you would see your son? What else would you have said to make him understand how much he meant to you? How he had saved you from your grief once before and how you still needed him now?

You bury your face deeper into his pillow as you finally allow yourself to ask the question that you know will haunt you the rest of your life:

Could I have saved you if I had been there?

For the next twelve days, little changes. The only time you leave Jason’s bed is to go to the bathroom, but otherwise, you lay curled in the center of his bed wrapped in his blankets and staring at his wall. Bruce and Alfred take turns coming to check on you several times a day, usually bringing food or drinks and trying their best to coax you into consuming something. You take a little nibble here and there or take a few sips of water, but it isn’t long before you return to your near catatonic state. 

Even when Dick arrives a few days after you learned of Jason’s death, it doesn’t make much of a difference. You do allow him to climb into the bed with you where you wrap him in a bone-crushing embrace, afraid if you let go you’ll lose him just like your other children. But eventually, he has to leave and you resume your solitary existence.

On day seven, Bruce slips into bed behind you and wraps his arms around you. For a long time, the two of you just lay there in silence. Then, softly, his lips brush against your ear as he whispers, “Please, sweetheart, please come back to me. I know you’re hurting. So am I. But I just lost Jason and I can’t….I can’t lose you too. Please, let me in. Let us help each other through this….Together.”

You know he’s right, and it kills you to know you are only adding to his heartbreak, but you just don’t have the strength or the will to be what he needs right now. So, you remain motionless in his embrace, your eyes never shifting their unseeing stare at the wall.

Eventually, Bruce accepts nothing is going to change. Pressing his lips to the nape of your neck, he whispers, “I love you. Please never forget that. And I’ll be waiting, as soon as you’re ready.” Then he slips from the bed and you are alone once more.

The next major change in your routine comes exactly two weeks after Jason’s death when Bruce and Alfred walk into Jason’s room holding a simple black dress. Silently, you allow them to put it on you before they lead you downstairs where Dick is waiting with the car. No one has to tell you where you are going. You already know.

For the short drive, Bruce sits next to you in the backseat, holding your hand tightly as he presses his lips against your temple with whispers of encouragement and love. You squeeze his hand back but make no other acknowledgment of his presence or support. You catch Dick glancing back at you in the rearview mirror a few times, concern etched on his face, and you wonder what he sees when he looks at you. That thought makes you withdraw even further into yourself in shame.

As Alfred pulls to a stop, you make no move to exit the car. Alfred and Dick both glance at Bruce for some sort of guidance as to how to proceed, and he motions for them to get out. Once you are alone, Bruce pulls you into his arms. “If I could spare you from this, you know I would. But we have to make some sort of public show or it’s going to look suspicious. And people are already asking questions. But I promise, the second we’re done, I’ll take you back up to the house. Okay?”

You nod, knowing he is right however much you despise it, and he smiles softly. Placing his finger under your chin so he can tilt your head back, Bruce kisses your forehead as he whispers, “That’s my girl.”

Then sliding his hand into yours, he opens his car door and steps out before helping you out. Immediately you are met with flashing lights and the whirring click of hundreds of cameras all pointed in your direction. You try to ignore them as Bruce leads you down the path lined with photographers and reporters, your face a blank mask void of any emotion. 

But that mask becomes harder to maintain as you hear the slight tittering of whispers passing through the crowd. And though you have over a decade of experience being the subject of Gotham’s rumor mill to get used to the kinds of things people say about you, these reach a new level of cruelty: 

“Look at the heartless whore. Can’t even spare a single tear for that poor boy Bruce so kindly took in.”

“I heard she didn’t even want to come today but Bruce insisted. Can you imagine? He deserves so much better.”

“She wasn’t even there when he died. Bruce planned a family trip overseas and she refused to go. She would rather stay here to be waited on hand and foot by that butler of theirs than spend time with her supposed family.”

“I bet she had something to do with the boy’s death. Probably didn’t want to share the Wayne fortune with anyone else. Bruce and the older boy should watch their backs. They could be next.”

You remember a time when you would have gone off on these people. Snapped back about how they didn’t know anything about you or your relationship with your family. Caused such a scene Bruce would have had to sheepishly drag you away while his face glowed bright red. But not today. Today all you want to do is curl up in a ball in front of them as you sob, asking how they can be so cruel or heartless to not see your pain or the devastation at your loss. How they could come here—here of all places—just to add to your suffering.

But you don’t. Instead, you allow Bruce to continue leading you forward until you stop in front of the freshly dug grave with the casket placed beside it.

Bruce (well, probably Alfred) had worked out all the details while you were locked in Jason’s room. A plot had been selected in the small graveyard on the edge of the Wayne estate, right next to where Bruce’s parents were buried. The casket is closed so you can’t see how they dressed Jay, but Bruce had promised you in the car that he tucked Jason’s Robin mask into his pocket like you asked. It was the only input you had given on the whole ceremony but it did make you feel a little better knowing he had it with him. 

To the world, this may just be the funeral of Jason Todd, but in reality, today you are burying two people, and you wanted to honor that.

Dick comes to stand next to you so you are sandwiched between him and Bruce. Though you don’t as much as glance in his direction, you are grateful to have your remaining son beside you. It is a calming reminder that not everyone has been taken from you. At least…not yet. 

As the ceremony starts, you hold your head high and stare straight ahead. It is harder than you thought, the weight of a hundred eyes boring into the back of your head, but you manage to remain calm and composed throughout the sermon.

It isn’t until they begin lowering the casket into the ground that everything goes wrong.

Unable to take your eyes off of the box containing your son as it disappears into the dirt, your body begins trembling violently as your knees give out underneath you. Luckily, Bruce catches you before you hit the ground but his touch does little to ease your trembling. 

Still staring at the casket, you begin repeating, “I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t…” 

Bruce pulls you tight against his chest, allowing you to bury your face into his jacket to muffle to sound. You claw desperately at the back of his suit, your chanting becoming more frenzied by the moment despite no longer looking at the grave. It’s just too much. All of it’s too much. “I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t…” 

Mercifully, Bruce gently lifts you into his arms and carries you back to the car. You cling tightly to him, your arms around his neck, even as you continue shaking and babbling, “I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t…”

“Shhh….” Bruce coos gently. “It’s alright, sweetheart. You did so good. I know he’d be proud of you, just like I am. But it’s over now, and I’m taking you back to the manor just like I promised. It’s going to be okay.”

You nod into his neck as you finally manage to quiet down some. The words are still swirling in your head but at least they are no longer spewing from your lips. You thought you were stronger than this. You thought you could at least hold it together for an hour for your family’s sake, but you were so wrong. 

Even though it had been a closed casket funeral, knowing Jay was in there, seeing it disappear into the ground forever…it finalized everything in a way you hadn’t felt yet. All those days laying in Jason’s room, numb and disconnected from the world, you had distanced yourself from the reality of the truth. But there was no escaping it now. Jason was gone and there was nothing you could do to change that.

When you reach the manor, Bruce once again lifts you into his arms though you half-heartedly tell him you can walk on your own yet part of you is glad when he ignores you and continues to carry you up the stairs. You are somewhat surprised when Bruce returns you to Jason’s room without even asking. For some reason, you had assumed he would try to take you to the master bedroom to be with him.

You expect him to climb into bed or kneel down beside it, but once again he shocks you as he simply turns and walks to the door. He only pauses a moment to say, “I had Alfred put a fresh change of pajamas on the dresser.” Then he walks out and closes the door behind him.

You aren’t sure what to think about this. Has Bruce finally given up trying to reach you? Was he more embarrassed about your behavior at the funeral than he admitted? Or has he finally accepted you need time alone to deal with your loss? 

Still pondering his behavior, you climb out of bed and slip off the black dress you are wearing. Tossing it to the side, you walk over to the dresser to look for the clothes Bruce mentioned. The sooner you get them on, the sooner you can return to your blanket cocoon and lose yourself to your fog of grief once more. 

But as you spy the pajamas and you reach for them, your eyes land on something on the wall. Despite the fact today is May 11, Jason’s calendar is still turned to April. Since he left for Ethiopia on April 25th and was killed on the 27th, he never got the chance to change it. He would never know which classical author’s picture had been selected for May. Instead, Jason ran out of time and now it will forever be stuck on William Shakespeare.

Time….If only you had more time….

Three and a half years. That’s all the time you had with your son. It seems insane that someone who was in your life for such a short amount of time could leave such an impact on you, but there is no denying it. You know deep in your soul that you could not have loved Jason more if you had given birth to him or known him since the day he was born. He is your son just as much as Dick is, as much as the baby you had lost is, and now he’s gone too.

And it’s all because of The Joker.

For the first time since you had crawled into Jason’s room that first night, something besides sorrow stirs in your gut. The red-hot burn of vengeance that you have let your grief extinguish suddenly flares to life in your veins and your hands clench tightly on the edge of the dresser. 

Memories begin flashing through your mind: Sitting next to the bed, begging God to save an 18-year-old Dick as he clung to life after being shot by The Joker while on patrol; Monitoring the Batcomputer in horror as The Joker released his laughing gas throughout the streets of Gotham; Listening to Lt. Gordon’s sobs as he told Bruce what The Joker had done to Barbara;  Watching Bruce lift Jason’s lifeless body out of the Batmobile as your heart shattered in your chest.

He is responsible for all this death and this pain, year after year after year. He is the reason other villains think they can get away with whatever deadly scheme they have up their sleeves. He is why Arkham Asylum has become a swinging door deterrent that no one fears. He is the one who killed your son.

And he’s not going to get away with it any longer. 

Every cell in your body knows what has to be done, yet you also know the consequences if you do it. Is stopping this lunatic really worth destroying what’s left of your family? Can you really give up everything to ensure no one else ever feels this pain you are feeling?

You think about if your places had been reversed and it had been you who had been killed instead and there is absolutely no doubt in your mind that Jason would have burned the world down if it meant stopping The Joker. And if that’s true, how could you do anything less for your son?

With a newfound purpose driving you and a clear goal in your sights, you flip the calendar to May and pin it in place. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle stares back at you as you press your finger to May 27th; 16 days from now and exactly one month after Jason’s death. That will be the day. The day you do what you should have done long ago. The day you will kill The Joker.

Taglist: @juliaarwj, @calsjack, @theclassicvinyldragon, @zebralover, @megumimind, @freerangesweets, @@lapidaverunt-scriptor, @kiryoutann, @charmellaposts, @imperialabysssins, @dawnwriterimagines, @avitute

[jasontoddspussy]

No Capes/ Monster hunter AU idea ft. Werewolf Jason, the YJ team being inhuman and Tim hiding Jay while trying to help him.

In my head the au is like dis;

There is no Batman, there's no superheroes. However, Bruce is a 'Hunter'. His parents was killed by a werewolf running rampant, but no-one believed him, thinking it was a wild animal that did it and that Bruce was lucky to have survived. Dick's parents died, unsure how, maybe vampires or somth? either way he's adopted by bruce who finds young dick in captivity and brought home. unsure of how he adopts jay, but he does. Tim is adopted early on bcs screw his parents, even if bruce isn't that much better lol.

at 15, jason is murdered by a man who calls himself Joker, a man who loves monsters and wants to create the perfect creature. instead of beating him with a crowbar he tries to sew other bodyparts (and fails) onto him or remove stuff. jay dies in pieces and is found by bruce too late.

he's revived by the league, a band of necromancers, specifically talia who wanted to do her beloved a favor, but also to have someone to help protect damian. However when jason sees that he's not even buried in the wayne family plot, that he's lost the 'wayne' part of his name, he's saddened and brought to despair, he feels a sense of loss and talia helps by offering training and more training.

then he finds out that despite bruce happily killing monsters, he didn't killl joker, who in jasons eyes, is the real monster.

and decides to return to gotham under an alias. he runs into tim who is flying solo despite what happened to jay and hes just so angry and doesnt understand why bruce would do this to him, to them, when he saw what happened to jason.

im unsure what rlly happens then but basically the joker is the one to turn jason.the joker forced the werewolf turn on him, and bruce had been on his way to the place bcs jason had goaded him there. disoriented from a sudden shift and new body, jason has no time to really figure out what to do before bruce is there, with joker gift-wrapped and a confused werewolf.

when he sees the warehouse, he sees joker, a human and thus can't be killed, and a werewolf, a monster with no thoughts or feelings just barely above an animal that's a danger to everyone. to him it's not even a question of who to go for

bruce doesn't react to joker aside from im calling the police, before going after jason who is so confused because that's his *dad* and why isn't he trying to hurt the joker who's a real monster why is he trying to hurt and kill jason??

and jason survives but he's so stressed that he doesn't really know what to do. im not sure how he gets out of there but he does. he tries to survive but he just *cant change back* and doesnt know what to do

and thats how tim finds him, tim who's been keeping an eye out on him bcs he's not fkn stupid and he's worried and jason is hurt, so so hurt and forced in wolf form and tim is just, angryand brings him to his friends, the friends bruce will never know about bcs bruce is so far up his own vengeance filled ass he'd kill them without thinking about the fact that they're tims friends

edit, wrote a small ficlet in this au::)

can be found here!

[rotten7rat]

Jason Todd Playlist Analysis

PART 1

Crooked Path by Polaris

One of many songs that will be about the difficult relationship between Jason and Bruce. Kind of about Jason reaching out to Bruce just for him to not be there, and about Bruce reaching out just for Jason not to be there either. Their differences divide them, but their love keeps them from parting.

I'm reaching out, please take my hand

The water's getting higher and I can't understand

Why I can't pull you in

Do you even care?

Do you even want me there?

This part refers to Jason reaching out to Bruce through his ultimatums and attempted truces eventually, just to seemingly only get Batman and not Bruce. Jason is struggling to stay afloat while feeling so isolated, he needs Bruce but isn’t directly saying so. He questions if Bruce even cares for him or is glad he is alive.

We are the victims just like our parents taught us to be

Roots planted firmly, but we fell so far from the tree

And still we cling to the past with an iron grip

Comparing their origins as heroes/antiheroes. Bruce became Batman because of the murder of his parents. Jason became Robin first to help Batman in his quest and to help the victims of crime, especially women and children. He then became Red Hood as a means of getting revenge and protecting Crime Alley. Despite their intentions they both have fallen far from the original inspirations of their work. Both Bruce and Jason cling to their pasts to justify the decisions they make and the work they do as heroes.

My will is spent

I used the very last drop

Trying to keep my head on straight enough

I know it hurts

It hurts to feel it all slip right past you

I just want to ask you

This part can reference their final confrontation in UtRH. Jason spent years training and planning for his takeover of Crime Alley and this moment in particular. He doesn’t blame Bruce for his death, he acknowledges even that it hurt him.

Was there something holding you back?

Have you had to cover your tracks

So long, you lost your identity?

Is there something dragging you down?

Crippled under the weight of the crown

What are you waiting, oh, what are you waiting for?

What are you waiting for?

He's asking what stopped Bruce from killing the Joker, what’s stopping him now. In his mind, Bruce treated his death not as him losing a son, but as Batman losing a soldier. He’s buried Bruce Wayne under so many layers of Batman that he’s lost his own identity. He understands that “Batman doesn’t kill” but why not just this once? Why try to live up to the standards of Batman when your son has been murdered?

For all of our differences

I always said I'd be there if you should come undone

Jason was by Bruce’s side as Robin for years, and even now is still in his corner. When push comes to shove he will always help Bruce, even if its just as Red Hood and Batman (obviously this depends on the comic and writer).

There are ghosts in every window

And they'll follow you back home

But if you stay a moment

I can tell you all I know

Of how these times have changed us

How they bring us to our knees

How they send us down the crooked path

Divide us temporarily

This could be Jason talking to Bruce, but also Bruce talking to Jason. Jason is asking Bruce to understand him, Bruce is telling Jason that he does. Both fall on deaf ears.

I said I'm sorry, I swear I'll do better

I never thought we'd have to carry this weight together

This is contagion, a plague that I bear

And it kills me to say that I really need you here

Again, this could be both Jason and Bruce talking to one another. They’re both sorry, they both swear to do better. They’re both probably apologising for the wrong thing. They never thought that this would be their relationship. Even after everything that’s happened, they still can’t part ways, they’re too bonded. They both carry the weight of Jason’s death, his return, but they can’t just say “I’m sorry, I need you, please come back.”

[a-reader-and-a-writer]

One Bad Day....Jason's Death

AI-Less Whumptober 2023: 8. Panic Attack, 12. Character Death, 23. Begging, 31. Crying, Alt. 13. Grief Fandom: Batman, Batfam, Batmom, Bruce Wayne, Jason Todd Summary: Before Red Hood rescued her, before she was in prison, before she killed The Joker, Batmom experiences one of the most devastating losses of her life. Word Count: 5587 TW: Canon Character Death, Mentions of Torture, Brief Description of Injuries, Grief, Breakdown, Tears, Anger, Character Picks Up Reader Note: This is part of the One Bad Day.... series but can be read as a one-shot (though best to be read after Part 3) Part of @ailesswhumptober's whumptober event.

Series Masterlist

It has been three days since you have heard from either Bruce or Jason and you are starting to get worried. Actually, you are way past worried—you are terrified. Something is wrong, you can feel it in your gut. A gnawing queasiness deep in your stomach that has you unable to eat or sleep while you wait for some sort of news.

Usually, you wouldn’t give this radio silence a second thought. While Bruce tries to send some sort of word as often as he can while out of town, it just isn’t always possible. Especially when he is away on this kind of work. Batman is a force of secrets and mystery. He can’t always risk finding a way to call his wife to tell her he is alright. 

You pull the blanket that is draped over your shoulders tighter around you and continue pacing. Alfred had placed it there a few ago, the last time he had come to check on you. When you had first begun to worry, the butler had remained by your side providing constant reassurance and support. But after a while, once it became clear you wanted to be alone, he retreated upstairs. Occasionally, he returned to the Batcave to bring you some food, water, or something to keep you warm, but otherwise, he had been keeping his distance. However, you know the second you call for him, he will instantly be there to get you whatever he possibly can. If only he could get you the one thing you truly wanted right now….

As if summoned by your silent wish, you suddenly hear the distant roar of a familiar engine growing louder by the second. Whirling around, a huge smile of relief on your face, you turn just in time to see the Batmobile burst into the cave and come to a stop in its usual spot. For the first time in days, you feel like you can breathe again as the driver-side door opens up and you catch a glimpse of Bruce, still in his Batman costume though he has removed his cowl and gloves.

Throwing your arms open wide as you approach the car, you exclaim, “There’s my boys!” Bruce doesn’t look at you as he climbs out of the Batmobile and walks slowly over to the passenger side. “I was just about to send out a search party. How was Ethiopia? Did you find–”

You stumble to a halt, your smile slipping from your face. An icy vice clamps down on your heart as you see Bruce lift something out of the Batmobile: a small limp figure wrapped in a torn yellow cape that reveals small glimpses of the red suit underneath through the holes and tears. Though the cape is also draped across the person’s face, you know immediately who is under it.

“No….” you gasp as your blanket slips from your shoulders to pool at your feet. “No, no, Bruce, no. Please, no.” 

As you wait for Bruce’s response, you cling to that last fragile shred of hope that it’s not what you think, that maybe he’s just hurt under there or sleeping or…or…….

But as your husband silently walks past you and lays the body on one of the nearby tables, the drawn, pained expression on his face coupled with the tender care he takes carefully arranging it is the final confirmation you need. 

Dropping to your knees, you let out an almost inhuman wail as the truth of the situation slams into you like a nuclear blast. Your baby’s gone. Jason is dead. And you have lost yet another child. 

You collapse forward, your forehead pressing hard against the cold cave floor as another wail tears through your chest. No. It can’t be true. Jason has to be alive. He has to be. Oh please, God, please don’t tell me you’ve taken my baby from me. Not again. Please.

As you continue to sob—worldless howls of grief and pain—you feel Bruce drape himself over you as if trying to shield you from this agony….but it’s too late. The damage has already been done and you have been irreparably broken.

In what seems like hours later, once you have exhausted yourself to the point you no longer have the energy or tears left to cry, Bruce sits back and pulls you carefully into his lap. As you lay curled in his arms with your head resting on his chest, you can feel his heart beating beneath you—so strong and steady—and it hits you that you will never again feel Jason’s heartbeat or hear him take a breath. All of those little signs of life you take for granted are just gone…and so is he.

Lifting your head to gaze up at your husband, you force your words through your aching throat, torn raw from all your screaming, and you ask, “What happened?” 

“The Joker,” Bruce says as he brushes a tear off your cheek. “He used Jason’s birthmother to lure him in, then he placed both of them in a warehouse that was rigged to explode. I arrived just as the bomb went off. I….I was too late to save him.”

The sound of Bruce’s voice breaking and the tears in his voice sends another jolt of pain into your heart and you nuzzle your head into his neck as you squeeze his hand. He silently squeezes back and you have to stifle a groan as you feel the bones in your hand shift and crack in his grasp, but you don’t say anything. You just let him continue to squeeze your hand long after the point it turns numb. 

You haven’t seen Bruce fall apart since the two of you lost the baby. Regardless of what heartbreaks or fights had come your way in the years since, Bruce had remained calm and stoic through it all. It’s just who he was. He was your rock, your lifeline in the roughest of waters, your source of comfort when you needed it the most—so the sight of him breaking adds another layer of grief to your own.

When he finally loosens his grip and you can tell he has regained some of his composure, you whisper, “Did he…. Did he hurt him before…?”

Bruce hesitates for a moment before murmuring, “You don’t need to know the details.” 

Which means yes. The Joker had probably tortured and beaten your baby bloody before blowing him up. Another sob threatens to tear from your lips, but you manage to quell it so it is just a whine deep in your throat. You had cried enough for the moment. Right now, you need answers and to come up with a plan. But first…you need something else.

Untangling yourself from Bruce’s arms, you unsteadily get to your feet and begin walking over to the table. Bruce leaps up when he sees what you are doing and he gently grabs your shoulders blocking your path. “Don’t. Sweetheart, just…just don’t. Trust me.”

“Let me go. I need to see him.”

You try to shrug him off but he holds you firmly in place. “No. You don’t. Don’t let that be the last image you have of him—I wish it wasn’t mine. He’s gone and seeing him like that won’t bring him back. So, I’m begging you, don’t.”

“Get out of my way, Bruce,” you growl as you glare up at your husband. “I need to see our son. I need to see what that monster did to him.”

For a moment, you aren’t sure what Bruce is going to do. His eyes flit across your face, trying to find the slightest hesitation he can grasp onto. But when he doesn’t find any, he sighs and slowly lowers his hands as he bows his head and whispers, “Please…Don’t look.”

But you have already pushed past him before he finishes his sentence.

You approach the table with a determined stride, yet you hesitate once you reach it. Jason was always a slight kid, even verging on scrawny, but he had never seemed smaller or more vulnerable than as your hand hovers over the cape still draped over him. Even that first night Bruce brought him home to you, he had so much fire and spirit in his little twelve-year-old body that his presence filled the room. Now, three years later, that fire and spirit had been extinguished and it hits you all over again how young he truly was—how young he would always be.

You feel Bruce come to stand just behind you but he doesn’t say a word. He has tried his best to stop you so now all he can do is wait for you to live with your decision and be there for the aftermath. Knowing he is right there for you gives you a renewed sense of strength and as you take a deep breath, you pull back the cape to look at your son. 

Bruce was right. You shouldn’t have looked.

Some of the damage you are expecting based on what Bruce told you. Burns litter Jay’s face and neck as well as his hands. In some places, they are light, almost invisible unless the light catches them just so. However, in other spots, the burns are so severe you can almost see down to the bone. His hands are the worst, so charred and blackened that you fear touching them despite the longing in your chest to hold his hand once more in yours. Looking at the burn patterns, it seems heartbreakingly clear that Jason had tried to protect himself from the blast by throwing his hands in front of his face…he had seen it coming.

Yet as horrible as that realization is, far worse is the damage you weren’t expecting to see on your son.

Beneath the burns and debris from the bomb, Jason’s body is broken, bruised, and bloody in ways that an explosion couldn’t have caused. One arm and leg jut out at odd angles and there are dark bruises all over his face, neck, and the parts of his torso you can see through his ruined suit. One eye is swollen and black, his nose is bent sharply to one side, and his lip is split open wide. You have seen enough blunt-force trauma up close and personal to understand what had to have caused all of this. 

Casting one last longing look at your son, you turn to face Bruce. You are visibly shaking, and when you speak, your voice is dripping with venomous fury, “Where is he?”

“Clark is tracking him down and he’ll alert me the second he finds him.”

“And then?” Bruce glances away, unable to look at you. Disbelief washes over you and you step closer to your husband. “Bruce, don’t tell me you are thinking of letting him live.”

“It’s not our place to–”

“He killed our son!” you hiss as you point to the body of the child you both loved. “Jason is—Jason is dead because of that maniac! We can’t let The Joker get away with this!”

“We won’t.” Bruce takes your face between his hands and bends over so his forehead is almost touching yours. “I swear to you, we will find him and throw him back into Arkham where he belongs.”

Wrenching from his grasp in disgust, you snarl, “For how long? A few weeks? A month if we’re lucky? Then he’ll just find another way to escape like he always does and he’ll hurt more innocent people, more people we love. How can you not see that this has to end? That it should have ended years ago.”

“My heart—” Bruce tries to take your hand but once again you snatch it away from him. “I know you don’t always agree with it, but we have a code. A code you agreed to follow when you joined me. And that code means that no matter what The Joker or anyone else does, We. Don’t. Kill. Otherwise, what makes us any better than them?”

“Maybe I don’t care about being better than them anymore. We’ve done things by the book, followed your rules, and where has that left us? Two dead children and a third who barely survived being shot. And you still talk about trusting the same system that allowed it to happen in the first place. Well, who’s next, Bruce? Who will be the next victim in your moral war? Alfred? Dick?....Me? Whose death will it take for you to realize that this won’t end unless we make it end?”

Bruce stares at you as if he is looking at a stranger and not his wife of ten years. Shaking his head slightly, he says, “I understand you’re hurting right now and you’re not thinking clearly. But once some time has passed and the feelings aren’t as raw, you’ll—”

“I’ll what? Forget my son is dead?” you snap.

“You know that’s not what I meant.”

“Well, what did you mean? Give it time and things will just go back to normal? That this pain will fade and I won’t care that my son was murdered?”

“Our son.”

“What?”

“Our son,” Bruce says. His voice has a sharp edge to it that momentarily takes you aback. “You keep saying ‘my son’ like you’re the only one who lost him. I know what you and Jay had was special but that doesn’t mean I didn’t love him too, or that I’m not in agony right now. I had to watch, helplessly, as that warehouse exploded knowing I was too late to save him. Then, I dug with my bare hands for almost an hour through the wreckage praying for a miracle only to find—” Bruce presses his hand over his eye as he takes a long, slow, shaking inhale then continues “And then I had to fly home watching vigil over our son’s body, all the while dreading this moment. Knowing I was coming home to shatter the woman I love. But the only thing that made that thought bearable was knowing we could mourn together and lean on each other for comfort. Yet all you can focus on is revenge and murder!”

“No, Bruce. I’m focusing on keeping the family I still have safe. I’m focusing on protecting this city just as you swore to do. I’m focusing on ending terror and chaos in the streets. And if that means one psychotic clown has to die to make that happen, then so be it.”

“We do not cross that line. Ever. No matter who we think deserves it. That’s just how things have to be.”

“Don’t you get it! Jason would still be alive if you had just—” All of your fury evaporates instantly and you inhale sharply as you realize what you were about to blurt out. Bruce’s expression hardens into a stone-cold mask usually reserved for the most lowsome of criminals and, stumbling back, you stutter, “I-I mean…I—”

“If I had what? Say it. Say it!” Now it is your turn to not meet his eye yet he pushes on. “You were going to say that if I had just killed The Joker years ago, Jason would still be alive!”

“I didn’t mean it. It just slipped out,” you whisper. “I know this isn’t your fault, Bruce. You told him not to go but I encouraged him to do what he thought he had to do. That I would support whatever decision he made.” Your voice cracks as you choke out, “I sent our baby off to his death, not you.”

It is the thought that has been nagging at the back of your head since you saw Bruce lift Jason’s body from the Batmobile. The unbearable truth you’ve been unable to face. Bruce had known something felt off about the situation and he insisted Jason stayed home. But when Jason came to you saying he had found his birthmother and needed to go see her, you put your foot down and forced Bruce to take him. If you had just listened to Bruce, if you had just really examined the facts instead of wanting to show Jason you were supportive, your son would still be alive.

Suddenly, it felt like the walls of the Batcave were closing in on you and you couldn’t catch your breath. Stumbling back a few steps, you say, “I-I can’t do this. I have to get out of here.”

The anger in Bruce’s face disappears as quickly as it appeared. He reaches out to you with a soft, “Sweetheart—” but you continue to back away.

“No. No, I need to go. I-I need to be alone.”

Bruce nods slowly. “Alright. That’s okay. Why don’t you go take a long shower and lay down and I’ll take care of things down here. I’ll come check on you when I’m done.”

You nod back and hurry over to the stairs leading up to the manor. But just as you begin to climb them, you pause and mumble, “I’ll be in Jay’s room.” then flee up the stairs before Bruce can stop you.

Once back in the manor, you move in an almost trancelike state towards the bedrooms. As you pass the kitchen, you hear a soft sniffling and you realize Alfred must have come down into the Batcave at some point and seen what happened. You have been so preoccupied with your own grief, you completely forgot about the butler who loved Jason almost as much as you and Bruce did. 

Part of you wants to go back and join him. After all, Alfred always knows how to fix anything and everything and maybe, somehow, he can fix this too. Yet as much as it pains you to admit, there are just some things even Alfred Pennyworth can’t do. So you continue walking.

When you reach Jason’s room, you don’t even pause before opening the door and shuffling in. In one fluid movement, you collapse onto your son’s bed and roll over, dragging his comforter with you until you are cocooned beneath the blanket. 

It seems impossible that just three nights ago you were sitting on this very bed with Jason next to you as he told you about how he had been tracking down his birthmother. He had been so scared to tell you for fear he would hurt your feelings. But you had just gathered him into your arms and pressed your lips into his hair as you promised him you would always be his “Ma” regardless of what happened on his search. That you would always love him….

Tears you did not think you could still cry began slipping silently down your cheeks. What would you have done differently if you had known that was the last time you would see your son? What else would you have said to make him understand how much he meant to you? How he had saved you from your grief once before and how you still needed him now?

You bury your face deeper into his pillow as you finally allow yourself to ask the question that you know will haunt you the rest of your life:

Could I have saved you if I had been there?

For the next twelve days, little changes. The only time you leave Jason’s bed is to go to the bathroom, but otherwise, you lay curled in the center of his bed wrapped in his blankets and staring at his wall. Bruce and Alfred take turns coming to check on you several times a day, usually bringing food or drinks and trying their best to coax you into consuming something. You take a little nibble here and there or take a few sips of water, but it isn’t long before you return to your near catatonic state. 

Even when Dick arrives a few days after you learned of Jason’s death, it doesn’t make much of a difference. You do allow him to climb into the bed with you where you wrap him in a bone-crushing embrace, afraid if you let go you’ll lose him just like your other children. But eventually, he has to leave and you resume your solitary existence.

On day seven, Bruce slips into bed behind you and wraps his arms around you. For a long time, the two of you just lay there in silence. Then, softly, his lips brush against your ear as he whispers, “Please, sweetheart, please come back to me. I know you’re hurting. So am I. But I just lost Jason and I can’t….I can’t lose you too. Please, let me in. Let us help each other through this….Together.”

You know he’s right, and it kills you to know you are only adding to his heartbreak, but you just don’t have the strength or the will to be what he needs right now. So, you remain motionless in his embrace, your eyes never shifting their unseeing stare at the wall.

Eventually, Bruce accepts nothing is going to change. Pressing his lips to the nape of your neck, he whispers, “I love you. Please never forget that. And I’ll be waiting, as soon as you’re ready.” Then he slips from the bed and you are alone once more.

The next major change in your routine comes exactly two weeks after Jason’s death when Bruce and Alfred walk into Jason’s room holding a simple black dress. Silently, you allow them to put it on you before they lead you downstairs where Dick is waiting with the car. No one has to tell you where you are going. You already know.

For the short drive, Bruce sits next to you in the backseat, holding your hand tightly as he presses his lips against your temple with whispers of encouragement and love. You squeeze his hand back but make no other acknowledgment of his presence or support. You catch Dick glancing back at you in the rearview mirror a few times, concern etched on his face, and you wonder what he sees when he looks at you. That thought makes you withdraw even further into yourself in shame.

As Alfred pulls to a stop, you make no move to exit the car. Alfred and Dick both glance at Bruce for some sort of guidance as to how to proceed, and he motions for them to get out. Once you are alone, Bruce pulls you into his arms. “If I could spare you from this, you know I would. But we have to make some sort of public show or it’s going to look suspicious. And people are already asking questions. But I promise, the second we’re done, I’ll take you back up to the house. Okay?”

You nod, knowing he is right however much you despise it, and he smiles softly. Placing his finger under your chin so he can tilt your head back, Bruce kisses your forehead as he whispers, “That’s my girl.”

Then sliding his hand into yours, he opens his car door and steps out before helping you out. Immediately you are met with flashing lights and the whirring click of hundreds of cameras all pointed in your direction. You try to ignore them as Bruce leads you down the path lined with photographers and reporters, your face a blank mask void of any emotion. 

But that mask becomes harder to maintain as you hear the slight tittering of whispers passing through the crowd. And though you have over a decade of experience being the subject of Gotham’s rumor mill to get used to the kinds of things people say about you, these reach a new level of cruelty: 

“Look at the heartless whore. Can’t even spare a single tear for that poor boy Bruce so kindly took in.”

“I heard she didn’t even want to come today but Bruce insisted. Can you imagine? He deserves so much better.”

“She wasn’t even there when he died. Bruce planned a family trip overseas and she refused to go. She would rather stay here to be waited on hand and foot by that butler of theirs than spend time with her supposed family.”

“I bet she had something to do with the boy’s death. Probably didn’t want to share the Wayne fortune with anyone else. Bruce and the older boy should watch their backs. They could be next.”

You remember a time when you would have gone off on these people. Snapped back about how they didn’t know anything about you or your relationship with your family. Caused such a scene Bruce would have had to sheepishly drag you away while his face glowed bright red. But not today. Today all you want to do is curl up in a ball in front of them as you sob, asking how they can be so cruel or heartless to not see your pain or the devastation at your loss. How they could come here—here of all places—just to add to your suffering.

But you don’t. Instead, you allow Bruce to continue leading you forward until you stop in front of the freshly dug grave with the casket placed beside it.

Bruce (well, probably Alfred) had worked out all the details while you were locked in Jason’s room. A plot had been selected in the small graveyard on the edge of the Wayne estate, right next to where Bruce’s parents were buried. The casket is closed so you can’t see how they dressed Jay, but Bruce had promised you in the car that he tucked Jason’s Robin mask into his pocket like you asked. It was the only input you had given on the whole ceremony but it did make you feel a little better knowing he had it with him. 

To the world, this may just be the funeral of Jason Todd, but in reality, today you are burying two people, and you wanted to honor that.

Dick comes to stand next to you so you are sandwiched between him and Bruce. Though you don’t as much as glance in his direction, you are grateful to have your remaining son beside you. It is a calming reminder that not everyone has been taken from you. At least…not yet. 

As the ceremony starts, you hold your head high and stare straight ahead. It is harder than you thought, the weight of a hundred eyes boring into the back of your head, but you manage to remain calm and composed throughout the sermon.

It isn’t until they begin lowering the casket into the ground that everything goes wrong.

Unable to take your eyes off of the box containing your son as it disappears into the dirt, your body begins trembling violently as your knees give out underneath you. Luckily, Bruce catches you before you hit the ground but his touch does little to ease your trembling. 

Still staring at the casket, you begin repeating, “I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t…” 

Bruce pulls you tight against his chest, allowing you to bury your face into his jacket to muffle to sound. You claw desperately at the back of his suit, your chanting becoming more frenzied by the moment despite no longer looking at the grave. It’s just too much. All of it’s too much. “I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t…” 

Mercifully, Bruce gently lifts you into his arms and carries you back to the car. You cling tightly to him, your arms around his neck, even as you continue shaking and babbling, “I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t…”

“Shhh….” Bruce coos gently. “It’s alright, sweetheart. You did so good. I know he’d be proud of you, just like I am. But it’s over now, and I’m taking you back to the manor just like I promised. It’s going to be okay.”

You nod into his neck as you finally manage to quiet down some. The words are still swirling in your head but at least they are no longer spewing from your lips. You thought you were stronger than this. You thought you could at least hold it together for an hour for your family’s sake, but you were so wrong. 

Even though it had been a closed casket funeral, knowing Jay was in there, seeing it disappear into the ground forever…it finalized everything in a way you hadn’t felt yet. All those days laying in Jason’s room, numb and disconnected from the world, you had distanced yourself from the reality of the truth. But there was no escaping it now. Jason was gone and there was nothing you could do to change that.

When you reach the manor, Bruce once again lifts you into his arms though you half-heartedly tell him you can walk on your own yet part of you is glad when he ignores you and continues to carry you up the stairs. You are somewhat surprised when Bruce returns you to Jason’s room without even asking. For some reason, you had assumed he would try to take you to the master bedroom to be with him.

You expect him to climb into bed or kneel down beside it, but once again he shocks you as he simply turns and walks to the door. He only pauses a moment to say, “I had Alfred put a fresh change of pajamas on the dresser.” Then he walks out and closes the door behind him.

You aren’t sure what to think about this. Has Bruce finally given up trying to reach you? Was he more embarrassed about your behavior at the funeral than he admitted? Or has he finally accepted you need time alone to deal with your loss? 

Still pondering his behavior, you climb out of bed and slip off the black dress you are wearing. Tossing it to the side, you walk over to the dresser to look for the clothes Bruce mentioned. The sooner you get them on, the sooner you can return to your blanket cocoon and lose yourself to your fog of grief once more. 

But as you spy the pajamas and you reach for them, your eyes land on something on the wall. Despite the fact today is May 11, Jason’s calendar is still turned to April. Since he left for Ethiopia on April 25th and was killed on the 27th, he never got the chance to change it. He would never know which classical author’s picture had been selected for May. Instead, Jason ran out of time and now it will forever be stuck on William Shakespeare.

Time….If only you had more time….

Three and a half years. That’s all the time you had with your son. It seems insane that someone who was in your life for such a short amount of time could leave such an impact on you, but there is no denying it. You know deep in your soul that you could not have loved Jason more if you had given birth to him or known him since the day he was born. He is your son just as much as Dick is, as much as the baby you had lost is, and now he’s gone too.

And it’s all because of The Joker.

For the first time since you had crawled into Jason’s room that first night, something besides sorrow stirs in your gut. The red-hot burn of vengeance that you have let your grief extinguish suddenly flares to life in your veins and your hands clench tightly on the edge of the dresser. 

Memories begin flashing through your mind: Sitting next to the bed, begging God to save an 18-year-old Dick as he clung to life after being shot by The Joker while on patrol; Monitoring the Batcomputer in horror as The Joker released his laughing gas throughout the streets of Gotham; Listening to Lt. Gordon’s sobs as he told Bruce what The Joker had done to Barbara;  Watching Bruce lift Jason’s lifeless body out of the Batmobile as your heart shattered in your chest.

He is responsible for all this death and this pain, year after year after year. He is the reason other villains think they can get away with whatever deadly scheme they have up their sleeves. He is why Arkham Asylum has become a swinging door deterrent that no one fears. He is the one who killed your son.

And he’s not going to get away with it any longer. 

Every cell in your body knows what has to be done, yet you also know the consequences if you do it. Is stopping this lunatic really worth destroying what’s left of your family? Can you really give up everything to ensure no one else ever feels this pain you are feeling?

You think about if your places had been reversed and it had been you who had been killed instead and there is absolutely no doubt in your mind that Jason would have burned the world down if it meant stopping The Joker. And if that’s true, how could you do anything less for your son?

With a newfound purpose driving you and a clear goal in your sights, you flip the calendar to May and pin it in place. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle stares back at you as you press your finger to May 27th; 16 days from now and exactly one month after Jason’s death. That will be the day. The day you do what you should have done long ago. The day you will kill The Joker.

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[lesbiankermitposting]

i’m reading through Jason Todd’s original comic run (post-crisis) and one thing that’s SO interesting to me is that if you just read the batman comics and you learn about jason through that, it’s so easy to write him off as the violent robin like new 52 has been trying to claim. we see a lot more of his vengefulness and impulsiveness, the best example being (other than the famous garzonas incident) is when he beats up two-face after learning he killed his dad. other than a few hints here and there, like jason asking to stay up late to do his homework, we get very little characterization outside of this. however, jason in the detective comics is entirely different. we still get hints of this, but it’s presented much more as a good-hearted, traumatized child making mistakes and trying to find how he wants to be good in the world. even if he’s violent, or vengeful, he’s always presented to have good intentions and to be driven by his past and his moral compass. i think it’s so fascinating that this side of jason from detective comics is almost completely disregarded in modern dc comics. i know fans have been talking for a while now about how jason was never “the angry robin,” but i think we need to see both sides in order to get the most nuanced picture of jason. yes, he can be vengeful and cocky and impulsive, but also everything he does has always been driven by a deep innate desire to do good. even when he does something batman doesn’t approve of, it’s either something a normal teen would do (mouthing off, running into dangerous situations to impress his mentor) or driven by a deep desire to protect victims. i’m not sure what necessarily caused this divide between batman and detective comics (maybe starlin’s disdain for jason just overwhelmed any urge for continuity) but the good-hearted part of jason is so essential for his narrative. it’s what makes his return as the red hood such a tragedy. this sweet kid, who once stopped batman from killing the joker, has been so deeply failed by the system he once upheld.

[emeraldspiral]

So, I know that because comic books are designed to go on indefinitely Bruce Wayne can never grow old and retire like he does in Batman Beyond and Joker will never be permanently killed off like he was in Return of the Joker. I think there was even a comic that actually showed that the Batman Beyond future isn’t set in stone by having Tim Drake get kidnapped by the Joker, but then escape unharmed. But like, what if he didn’t? What if the main DC comics continuity actually integrated elements of Return of the Joker into the canon? Like, we already have the Joker being the source of a huge traumatic character redefining moment in Barbara and Jason’s stories, so why not let him do it for Tim Drake?

I think the whole reason they skipped Jason in the DCAU but made Tim a lot more like him than the Tim from the comics is because they knew they weren’t going to be allowed to kill him off like Jason and they felt like that was too important to his character to ignore. But then they ended up putting Tim through something as close to Jason’s brutal murder as they could within the censorship guidelines. I think if it had happened in BTAS instead of Batman Beyond there could’ve been a lot more story to tell, rather than having it just be the setup for a story that takes place decades later. And because it was Tim instead of Jason and because Tim didn’t die, the story would’ve been something completely new rather than an adaptation of the Red Hood storyline that resulted from Jason’s death.

So, what if in the comics there was a whole story arc where Tim Drake goes missing and then Joker debuts a new sidekick, “Joker Jr.” aka “J.J.”?

You could milk that for a while, building it up as a mystery and then a great source of drama when the Batfam realize their new adversary is the missing Tim Drake. Then you have them trying to figure out what happened and how to help Tim. Is he being mind controlled by a machine or a telepath? Or has he been dunked into the same acid bath as Joker and gone completely insane?

Or maybe it’s like what happens to him in the future where Tim is switching back and forth between his identities and no one including him realizes he’s Joker Jr. Maybe he doesn’t even remember the Joker capturing him and anything bad happening. It’s all been repressed so no one knows he went through any trauma and no one suspects a thing until the clues reveal that J.J. can only be Tim.

In the original story we don’t get to actually see the concept of a “Joker fam” play out, and that could’ve been interesting. Joker often gives conflicting information about his background, but it usually involves an abusive father, so putting him in a paternal role might shed some light on what kind of role model he actually had for a parent. Maybe he projects his boyhood trauma onto Tim and either treats him shitty because of his own self-loathing or shows slivers of compassion he wished he’d gotten from his father.

Punchline could replace Harley as Joker’s accomplice in the brainwashing and act as an evil big sister, like a dark parallel to Barbara. She could revel in Tim’s corruption and how much it upsets the people who care about him, or she could view him as a rival for Joker’s attention and approval. Joker could even intentionally pit them against one another.

Whenever Tim gets rescued Joker either doesn't die, or it doesn’t stick, because comics. But then there’s fallout to explore afterward. Like, Tim has to grapple with it for a while, but Bruce is also not handling it well. This is the third time now that the Joker has done something super fucked up to one of his sidekicks. He feels horribly guilty for Jason, Barbara, and Tim, and also worries that Damien might be next. He doesn’t want his loved ones in the line of fire anymore, but he knows already that he can’t make them do anything. Dick and Babs are grown adults and even Damien just does whatever he wants.

So maybe Bruce gets the idea that the only way to force them all to hang up their capes is if he reveals his identity. He’ll claim he coerced them all into helping him so they don’t go to jail, but there would still be consequences for a lot of people. Jim Gordon has to resign and a new corrupt commissioner replaces him. Lucius Fox is indicted and that allows the Powers family to takeover Wayne Enterprises. Alfred has to go into hiding. People start to connect the dots between known associates of Bruce Wayne and deduce the identities of characters like Superman and Catwoman. It’s a huge domino effect. But just as everything is about to implode, this is revealed to just be a hypothetical, like Over the Edge. Batman realizes that even if he were ready to throw everyone else under the bus to protect his sidekicks it wouldn't even work because they’d still have enemies who’d go after them and their families if their covers were blown and they could no longer fight crime.

So Batman realizes the only thing he can do is go to Zatana for help. His relationship with her has been on the rocks ever since he found out she mindwiped him after he walked in on her altering Doctor Light’s mind to make him less dangerous but now he feels like he has no choice but to do something similar to his sidekicks. Of course just mindwiping them wouldn’t work because they still have friends in the Justice League, the Titans, and several other groups who wouldn’t universally agree to keep it a secret. So the only solution would be for Zatana to do some kind of Spiderman No Way Home spell that makes EVERYONE forget all of Batman’s sidekicks.

And just to make sure none of them can ever discover his identity and ask to join his crusade again, he makes them all believe he was an abusive alcoholic who they cut out of their lives. In fact, they believe there was a high-profile lawsuit between Bruce and Dick that resulted in Dick becoming Tim and Damien’s new legal guardian and moving with them to Bludhaven. Dick thinks he didn’t want to depend on the trust fund Bruce set up for him so he started his own company. Barbara believes she was an intern for Bruce Wayne but quit because he was a toxic boss. Jason believes he ran away from home and became a mechanic after a big blowout with Bruce, but still keeps in touch with the other boys. Damien doesn’t remember his mother or grandfather or the League of Assassins at all, he thinks he lived a normal life as the child of a billionaire playboy and a random fling and gets along with Tim and the others just fine. Alfred and Bruce believe Bruce somehow kept his secret from Dick and the others for many years before deciding to purposefully act like a bad parent to drive them all away because he knew the danger was always there and he didn’t feel like he could be the guardian they deserved dividing his time between them and the double-life they couldn’t know about. Only Zatana knows the truth.

So Bruce continues doing his thing as a solo act while the rest of the Batfam are living normal lives. But over time they all end up getting back into vigilantism despite everything Bruce did to keep his influence away from them. Barbara gets interested in politics and running for public office as a means of improving the city, but when her campaign fails she finds she can do more as Oracle. Dick can’t help but intervene when he sees a mugging on the streets of Bludhaven and feels compelled to keep going out to fight crime to make the streets safe for his brothers. Car thieves bring a vehicle to Jason’s shop to be stripped for parts and when he realizes it was stolen from a friend of his who was murdered they try to kill him, forcing him to go to Dick’s to hide out.

Neither Jason nor Dick trust the police to take care of the car theft ring and decide to try and deal with it together. Tim and Damien know something is up despite their efforts to hide it from them and end up following them to a confrontation with the gang. None of them remember their training so they’re in over their heads, but fortunately Black Canary shows up, having been recruited by Barbara to deal with the car theft ring. Canary sees the boys’ potential and starts training them and Barbara and we end up with a Birds of Prey team consisting of Oracle, Black Canary, and quadruple Robins, which tuns into quintuple Robins when Stephanie Brown later joins them. Also, we find out that Dinah Drake and Tim Drake are related and Tim has the same superpower.

Bruce instinctively worries about these new young heroes taken under Black Canary’s wing before he even learns they’re his estranged kids. He confronts her about it but she tells him they’re all making their own choices and she can’t stop them. She can only give them the guidance they need to do what they’re doing as safely as possible. When he does learn their identities and they learn his there’s a lot of drama and angst over Bruce lying to them, being shitty on purpose, and finding out for the first time how much he actually loves them and is proud of them.

The Joker reenters the picture after having been thought dead since the end of the inciting arc with Tim, and this leads to a Joker Jr. relapse. Everyone’s confused as to how Tim could have this repressed split personality/DNA overwriting microchip implant when he’s only met the Joker recently and never been alone with him. Investigating uncovers evidence of mental tampering which eventually leads back to Zatana, who gives everyone the truth. Seeing as how the charade didn’t stop the Batfam from becoming vigilantes again or erase the trauma hiding deep within Tim’s psyche, it seems pointless to keep the spell going, so Zatana restores everyone’s memories.

But it’s not just a hard reset to back before she cast the spell. The whole scandal of Bruce and Dick’s custody battle that tarnished Bruce’s public image is still in the public conscious. Even after announcing that Bruce has cleaned up his act and the boys have reconciled and moved back in with him a lot of people still think Bruce is a dirtbag. Barbara finds she prefers being Oracle to Batgirl and pursuing a career in politics instead of being Batman’s sidekick. Damien still remembers being a normal kid and enjoying normal kid things and is much more well-adjusted. Jason still works as a mechanic and Dick still has his own company and they maintain relationships with workplace associates introduced in this arc. Tim still has to grapple with what Joker did to him, but he also has a strong relationship with “Aunt Dinah” now and a Canary Cry. So he decides it’s finally time to concede the Robin identity to Damien and step out of Bruce’s shadow to create a new identity like Dick, Jason, and Barbara before him.

IDK what his new name could be. “Red Canary” almost sounds like it would work because it’s like when he went by “Red Robin” (Yummm!) combined with his new superpower and relationship with Black Canary. But at the same time, it’s still a derivative sidekick name an not an independent identity like Nightwing, Red Hood, or Oracle. Also, there’s already a Red Canary who was just introduced. I think she’s from another universe, but it still doesn’t really make sense to give Tim a new name so he doesn’t have to share an identity with Damien, but then make him share his new one with someone else.

[redjaybathood]

Just had a very evil 'Red Hood!Steph' AU idea. The gist is wanting to do something a bit different over the same track as Jason while keeping the general idea.

So, taking inspiration from a world without young justice, Steph is the second Robin. Arthur gets out of prison way earlier when she';'s like 10 and an altercation with Crystal leaves her dead and Steph in hiding but stalking him, plotting revenge. She drops clues, tries to kill him with a gun he gave her as a kid, Bruce calms her down and takes her on as his Robin and adopted daughter.

Some of Steph's insights on the East End cause shifts in investments that such that either ensure Catherine lives, or Willis (not abusive just a criminal) are still able to care for Jason. He ends up as a much more welcomed Spoiler analogue.

So how does Steph die?

The Court o Owls, they are offended Bruce adopted Stephanie, even more offended she took his last name, even, even more offended she outperforms their children! So they try to kill her, it doesn't take at first, done through sacrificial pawns unaware of their role in things and Steph continues being Robin.

Cass might be around or the next Robin maybe?

This goes till she's about 13/14, so a bit before her canon debut, they finally pull off an assassination. They likely use a Rogue as cover, but its by their hand she dies and by their hand she is returned to life, their intent to make her a Talon as a final punishment, eternal slavery.

This fails, first because Steph is not wholly 'aware' but as she comes back to herself, she is convinced that Batman will save her, through experiments and trials. She gains some enchantments and manages to escape as they don't know of her training but her head space is fragile.

So fragile that all it takes to crumble the last pillar holding up her identity is seeing Batman and Robin swooping through the Sky. The shriek she unleashes can barely be called human and she flees Gotham in a maddened daze. She avoids the Court agents and starts building her war chest.

Here I am less sure, maybe Talia finds her, or David Cain (If him she kills him as a self imposed graduation condition) or she just funds her own training until she's... Let's say sixteen/seventeen? IE, her return is around the time she was Robin in the original timeline.

Whatever the case, while killing off the rogue who killed her, the gangs and such is on her to do list. Steph (Now going by Scion) is focused on the Court itself and the wealthy, so her plans also involve stuff like taking over city councils and other things.

She may also be specifically framing Batman for the murder of certain Court members to lure them out and keep Bruce off balance. Thanks to her enhancement's and suit she can at least keep up with Cass, though she still wouldn't want to fight her head on.

You know what? I hear "Steph frames Bruce for murder" and I immediately think that David Cain would work better than Talia here, and your idea of Cass being the next Robin? Is how it all comes together.

Did Steph kill David Cain but still decided to go with his plan of framing Bruce, just switching target from the innocent ex girlfriend to the sycos who kill people, then make them kill even more people, and nobody even believes they exist? And she knows Cass is Cain's daughter; moreover, she probably gives Cass an opportunity to get involved in this. Maybe - think about Jason getting Bruce into the same room with Joker to kill him, but it is Steph offering a chance to do the "right thing" to Cass. Because she feels a certain kinship you get when you both are raised by abusive fathers, who hurt your mom very much (Crystal is dead and, correct me if I'm wrong, Lady Shiva - Sandra - wasn't like that before Cain killed her young sister and then kidnapped her and made carry a child for him; so I believe it counts).

But of course Cass is trying to save Cain. Not because she has any kind of feelings for her biological father, but because that's how she is.

So only after that the frame-up is a go. And you know what would be funny? Bruce Wayne getting arrested, and his adopted daughter Cassandra is fostered by... Willis Todd. I don't know if ex-convict can be foster parents - probably not - so maybe Willis testified against Two-Face, made a deal, his conviction was overthrown or he wasn't even arrested, or if he was, he wasn't tried.

And that's when Jason because Spoiler. When his foster sister is sneaking out to get justice for her adoptive father, and comes back black and blue (the suit and the enhancement of Talons make them a formidable enemies). Would be funny if Jason, trying to help his sister, met and befriended Scion, not knowing that she was the one to beat Cass up. Well, they beat each other up, but Steph's healing factor is off the roof so you can't tell by looking at her.

So as Robin!Cass forbids Spoiler! Jason from interfering, he partners with Scion to take down Court of Owls who are, he feels, targeting Cass. In a big showdown between all the parties them three end up partnering against Court, take them down. And then Cass, with the last breath left in her, attacks Scion.

Steph runs away. Jason is left in a very uncomfortable place as when you're in the middle school and two of your best friends don't talk to each other, and if you talk to one of them, the other won't talk to you.

[thealexanderfiles]

Okay so let’s talk Superboy Prime and his connection to Jason Todd.

I’ll be honest, I haven’t read the comic in full, exclusively because I haven’t found a copy. I want to though. But I have done extensive reading and research.

In some alternate universe, there is a boy named Clark Kent who loves comics. One day, he gets all the powers of Superman, yay! Somewhere along he gets the name Superboy Prime.

But, he is a comic book fan that is an amalgamation of every angry fanboy during 70s/80s/90s comics who wanted to see DC return to its golden-age/early silver age roots.

This was post-Dark Knight Returns, which if you ever hear that it means the era when DC decided it was time to give everyone Dark and Edgy and Angsty stories. Superboy Prime pointedly Did Not Like That. So, with his new powers, he somehow (and, again, I haven’t read this in full so this is something I don’t know for sure) gets into the main DC universe.

(Now back to what I do know).

Superboy Prime takes out his anger on the entire DC universe. He punches the universe so hard it breaks. Literally.

Essentially, DC does this thing a lot called reboots. Stories will reset, timelines will change, etc. There have only been two full reboots (Crisis on Infinite Earths and Flashpoint), but that’s a conversation for another day.

Superboy Prime’s punch essentially acted as a soft or semi reboot to the universe. Some things changed, some stayed the same.

Probably the biggest, most notable change was this punch brought Jason Todd back to life. He then proceeded to climb out of his grave.

Eventually, the League of Assassins (run by Damian’s grandfather and mother- also happy to explain that lore if you’d like) took him in and restored his body and his mind to a degree in the Lazarus Pit, a pit of green liquid with the power to keep someone immortal. It has some side effects I believe, but it is important to note that Pit Madness is fanon-made, and not a real side effect, at least to the extent fanon had made it out to be. There may be levels of more tendencies toward violence, but nothing like being taken over by only rage and whatever that fanon has made it out to be.

It took the entire Justice League to stop Superboy Prime, and he developed a debilitating fear of any of the Flashes in the process.

It’s all a metaphor for angry fandom and the power that an angry or mean fan can have.

Please please let me know if you have more questions, I’m more than happy to help clear up anything DC-related you might want!!

Hi Mystery Informant! (Is it alright if I call u that? It sounds MUCH cooler than Anon.)

First up, I would LOVE to hear your thoughts on the DC comics/universe, I've mentioned it before idk anyone who isn't either an avid marvel fan or not interested in this sorta genre. Even though you've said you've got gaps in ur knowledge, you're already, like, fifteen steps ahead of me.

I've got a few questions regarding the whole Flash situation. Like, there are a confusing amount. I'm pretty sure there's one in the justice league, one called kid flash and some sort of time traveller knocking around and I have NO CLUE how they all fit together.

Secondly, I keep hearing like, Tim drake has a fake uncle (not sure if this was ever adressed. Where is this kids parent btw???) and no spleen, and I'm certain they aren't connected but if you'd elaborate on this that would be great

Thirdly, it has come to my attention that I don't know who Green Lantern is, nor if he's from earth. I sounds like there's more??? People keep mentioning GL corps

Who is Green Arrow? Please. I'm so confused

There is a man called the Penguin running around. Cannot see how that name would evoke terror in the masses but pop off ig.

Dick Greyson kills the Joker?

Batman revives the Joker?

Does Dick become nightwing b4 or after jason rocks up?

Does america just have shit luck and have aconcerning amount of heroes?

Take ur pick, Mystery Informant. Also. What movies/comics should I read. I've been told Wayne family adventures (I think it's called that) is a good place to start for the batfam, but other than that I'm not sure.

Thanks :)

Oh. P.S. this whole Superboy prime thing is WILD. I love it. Thanks for the explanation.

[jasontoddisasorceror]

JASON POV: After his resurrection at the hands of Lady Gotham herself ( Dickhead could suck it she was real) Jason had honestly hoped he'd just be able to go home to his family instead Bruce refused to even acknowledge him or his efforts to reconcile their relationship. Even worse, he's been replaced as Robin by the Dicks fan boy stalker who keeps insisting he's here to help Bruce move on from him. Well fuck it if Bruce was just going to disown him like that then FUCK HIM. Jason hadn't learned a lot from Shela as they had both waited for jokers bomb kill them but what he had learned changed everything, at the time it hadn't cause they were about to die but now he was back and Bruce had made it clear he was not welcome anymore. He wasn't the son of Willis Todd and Shela Haywood, shela wasn't his mother she was Willis's accomplice in Crime, specifically in the kidnapping of children from maturnity wards for ransoming back to either there parents or the hospital. With this information Jason discovers his real name is Daniel James Fenton. He was born in Gotham General hospital on Agusht 16th the son of Maddiline Fenton and James "jack" Fenton. He's their second child and has been missing ever since he was taken from the maturnity ward. He has an older sister named Jasmine Fenton shes two years older than him and will be starting college next year. Hes not sure why he was never returned the Fentons paid the ransom in full and then some. Now Jason had a choice he could stay and wait for Bruce to pull his head out of his own ass or for Alfried to come back and do it for him, (if Alfried was coming back that was.) Or he could find his family and live with people who at least seamed to actually want him.

In order to find his family and stay off of batmans radar he's going to need help so he made a deal with Talia al Ghul and one of Bruce's old "friends" a Thomas Elliot to help him cover his tracks. Thomas was the doctor who treated Jason when he came back so he had to be bribed Talia wanted to kill him but Jason wasn't a murder (no matter what Bruce said to Tim about Gonzalez.) So Jason agreed to give the man some info about Bruce nothing personal or about batman. In fact, the info Jason gave Thomas was almost all lies or rumors he had heard about Bruce over the years. Talia is a little more tricky she just gave him an encrypted cell phone and told him to call her regularly before dropping him off with his new (birth) family.

part Two enter baby damian.

(OKAY, so I was re reading this, and I never explained exactly why no one believes Jason's actually back. It's because Lady Gotham made him luminal.) Not on accident either she deliberately pumped his corpse full of ectoplasim as a sort of apology/blessing to her favorite robin. Which meant that, Jason had limited abilities, mainly he was slightly faster, stronger, and maybe smarter (that one is still up for debate) than a regular human he could also see in the dark now, unfortunately the Lady also decided to give him intangibility which he has no control over so every time some one mainly Bruce or Tim tried to touch him he just instinctively went intangible so they just assumed he was a ghost.

Anyway on to how a baby damian ends up living with the Fentons. (I have no idea give me a day to figure that out.)

Prompt

Bruce is so caught up in his grief that he… misses Jason coming home.

Jason, fresh out of his grave and confused (and traumatized) as all hell is just wondering where the hell Alfred is (“I gave him a lengthy vacation, Jaylad.” “And he agreed!?!?!?”) and why Bruce is acting like everything Jason says and does is some kind of tear jerker and good gods, B, are you trying to die you can’t just drop down in the middle of a gun fight with no plan Jesus Christ and why haven’t you eaten the spaghetti I made you dad!?!

Bruce is just happy his mind is kind enough to create such a vivid hallucination of his dead son.

(Tim is… confused.)