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maristelina · 2 years ago

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Interview with DECO*27 and Takuya Yamanaka on the Interactive Music Project MILGRAM -ミルグラム-

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TRANSLATOR NOTES:

This is an old interview back in 2020. It's important to remember that the thoughts of Yamanaka and DECO*27 about the direction of the characters could've changed! Don't let that deter you from your initial voting!

Given the structure of Japanese, run-on sentences are inevitable. I did my best to rephrase them for better flow and brevity. But there were some sentences that I found difficult to change so I left them as is.

Sometimes there would be additional context on some of the questions. This is because the interview answers won't make any sense without them. Haruka's song being the prime reason... They will appear as indented to separate them from the interview questions.

Please let me know if there are any errors especially with the names I used. I struggle with translating names accurately, so I did my best to be as precise as possible.

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An interview with DECO*27 and Takuya Yamanaka, the producer of MILGRAM, has been published on Music Natalie.

As the first interview since the start of the project, they talk extensively about MILGRAM, starting from their initial encounter. Please check it out!

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DECO*27, a music producer, and Takuya Yamanaka, a game creator known for the "Caligula" series and other works, have collaborated on a new project called MILGRAM -ミルグラム-. The third CD in the series, "Umbilical," has been recently released. The two artists, who usually work in different genres, have joined forces for this project.

MILGRAM -ミルグラム- is a unique project that encourages viewer participation through music, visuals, and voice dramas. As "guards" of MILGRAM -ミルグラム-, viewers observe the crimes of the prisoners through the release of music and music videos and then make a judgment of "forgive" or "not forgive".

The project involves professionals from different fields, including members of DECO*27's company OTOIRO who have contributed to the visual, video, and music arrangement aspects.

The project also features a cast of talented voice actors such as Yurina Amami (Es), Shun Horie (Haruka), and Yuuka Aisaka (Yuno). The project has gained attention for its collaborative nature and the participation of professionals from various genres.

Music Natalie interviewed the two creators behind the MILGRAM -ミルグラム- project, discussing the inspiration behind the project, their perspectives on it, and the process of producing the music, including the release of the third CD, "Umbilical".

The interview was conducted by Hitoshi Sugiyama, and Keiki Takenaka from ARTIST PHOTO STUDIO provided the photos.

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PRIORITIZING VIEWER ENJOYMENT

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──Is it safe to say that your initial collaboration was for the game "Caligula Overdose," released in 2018 and produced/directed by Mr. Yamanaka, where DECO*27 composed the Stork song "Love Scope"?

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DECO*27: Yes, that's right. It was the first time we met at the recording studio at that time.

Takuya Yamanaka: During media interviews for the game, we talked about our musical ideas and realized that we were of the same generation.

DECO*27: But we didn't have any contact for a while after that.

Yamanaka: Yeah, that's right. During that time, I became a freelancer, and he founded OTOIRO, so our circumstances shifted. When I saw the music video for "Otome Kaibou feat. Hatsune Miku" that came out early 2019, it felt like a showcase for OTOIRO as a company. I recall thinking, "If I could harness this potential and create something of my own, it could be really fun."

DECO*27: We had the opportunity to have a meal together and talk about work and various things. At that time, we talked about wanting to do something together. It was a typical polite social gesture.

Yamanaka: I came up with the idea for "MILGRAM -ミルグラム-" during a meal with DECO*27. I didn't want the suggestion to be perceived as just a polite social gesture, so I proposed the idea on the spot.

Originally, I had thought of turning it into a game, but after seeing the music video for "Otome Kaibou," I was inspired to develop something that was synced with music. I found this idea more modern and interesting. The comment section of Vocaloid songs often features various people offering their interpretations and analyses of the music video.

However, there's usually no way to confirm whether these interpretations are correct or not. So, I came up with the idea of providing an answer and turning it into a complete story.

DECO*27: As soon as I heard that idea, I could envision myself as the composer and akka as the character designer, so I said right there and then, "I'm in!"

Yamanaka: From there, we started to communicate our ideas for this work and worked together to make it happen.

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The Music Video that inspired MILGRAM's Direction

──Was there anything you were conscious of when starting the project?

DECO*27: In creating MILGRAM -ミルグラム-, our main goal was to prioritize viewer enjoyment. That's why we made sure that crucial aspects of the project were not restricted to paid areas, such as the official app.

Yamanaka: We wanted to keep things fun and avoid commercializing our collaboration as two individuals from the same generation. So, we made an effort to exclude any commercial aspects. For instance, we considered including voting tickets in the CDs to boost sales, but ultimately decided against it.

DECO*27: Also, since the theme of the content itself is heavy, we wanted to make it easy for people to participate by keeping the door open. Some people may deeply ponder the concept of sin and ask themselves, "Would I forgive my family, friends, or lover if they committed such acts?", while others may easily forgive a character simply because they enjoy the music. Both reactions are valid, and we welcome them.

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MORE PRISONERS RESULTED IN HEAVIER WORKLOAD

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──What about the specific system, story composition, and the interplay between music and story?

Yamanaka: I believe that "listening to music to understand the emotions of the creator" is an approach that deepens our understanding of music. The MILGRAM -ミルグラム- system was created with that motivation in mind. To really maximize its potential, we came up with the idea of having viewers explore the underlying reasons behind the "sins" portrayed in the music.

Nowadays, it's common to see a lot of people sharing their thoughts on crimes that happen in the world through social media and other platforms. I believe it would be fascinating if we could inspire people to reflect more deeply on "why" they feel a certain way towards a particular crime--and allow them the freedom to explore their emotional reactions.

For example, in MILGRAM -ミルグラム-, there's a character named Amane (CV: Miu Tanaka) who is 12 years old. Some people might say "I forgive them because they're just a child," while others might think "I won't forgive them just because they're a child."

In my opinion, there aren't many chances for people to truly articulate and ponder "what kind of person am I, and why do I think this way?"

Our hope for MILGRAM -ミルグラム- is that viewers will be able to reflect upon themselves and their own emotions through examining the sins of the characters.

DECO*27: Absolutely. But we haven't revealed what the outcome for the characters will be based on the viewers' judgment. So, at the moment, our main objective is for viewers to simply listen to the music, analyze it, and form their own opinions freely.

──Were there any changes made to the original plan due to DECO*27's input?

Yamanaka: Of course. When we worked together on "Caligula -カリギュラ-", I was impressed by how he expanded on the initial concept to create music. At the same time, I feel like my ideas provide him with inspiration that is different from what he usually gets when making music alone, so we are mutually influencing each other.

DECO*27: For instance, we initially planned to release one song per character over the course of three seasons - with each season containing song number 1, song number 2, and full-length versions. But for some reason, I proposed right from the start that we should release all of them in full-length versions (laughs). That was quite challenging.

Yamanaka: Originally, there were eight characters burdened with the weight of guilt.

──In the end, there were two more characters, making it a total of ten.

DECO*27: It began with my suggestion to include a character who would cause a stir in MILGRAM -ミルグラム-.

Yamanaka: While thinking to myself, "I know I'm struggling, but you're in the same boat, right!?" (laughs).

But in fact, the two people who joined the project at that point actually ended up doing an incredible job. I think that without them, the project would not be possible. As a result, we both ended up facing a hellish amount of work... (laughs).

I have the feeling that the nature of this project, which isn't based on the commercial principle of "creating something worth the investment," has lifted its constraints. We're motivated by the desire to push ourselves, "Let's do it even if it doesn't justify the cost."

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A CRAZY PROJECT

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DECO*27: Well, it's just hell (laughs).

Yamanaka: (laughs) I have all kinds of possible endings in mind, and we have a storyline that we think would be easy to create, but it is really up to the viewers to decide what will actually happen.

DECO*27: It's the same with the music. After each character is voted for, we start working on the music for the next season, but we're also brainstorming ideas for both "forgive" and "don't forgive" outcomes, so it could go either way.

Yamanaka: MILGRAM is such a crazy project (laughs).

I was really happy to find someone who would go along with it, and when I first suggested playing the game, I had the theme of "sin and love" in mind, with questions such as "Can you forgive someone after knowing their crimes?" and "What would you do if you couldn't forgive someone you loved?"

But, in expressing this through DECO*27's music, it was expanded to combine various emotions other than love with sin. It shifted to something more contemporary, closer to what the audience can relate to.

We came up with characters by personifying their sins, creating a situation where the judgment of whether to "forgive" or "not forgive" varies depending on the person judging them. We listed many situations where judgments are divided based on the viewer's personality, environment, upbringing, and so on.

Even if the sins seem similar at first glance, the circumstances in which they were committed and the possibility of extenuating circumstances can create entirely different characters.

DECO*27: When I saw the characters being developed, I thought to myself, 'Oh, they're going to do some nasty things...' and wondered how I would write songs for them. But each prisoner has a story leading up to the point where they commit their sins, and this varies depending on the character.

──While reviewing the materials for the interview, I was impressed by the detailed characterizations and realistic personalities portrayed, down to the smallest details.

Yamanaka: For me, I do not want my characters to be perceived as two-dimensional beings. I stick to the idea that they are based on real people who happen to have a two-dimensional appearance. That's one of my rules when creating characters, and I also make sure to write down their backstory in the materials.

So, even though the setting of the story in MILGRAM is a fantasy space, I wanted the characters themselves to feel like they could exist right beside you. That's why in this work, there are no instances of killing people with magic.

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DETAILED DIRECTION FOR VOICE ACTORS

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──DECO*27 has released three albums of music to date. Could you first talk about the production process behind "Undercover," which was the first album released in May?

Yamanaka: This song is really cool, isn't it? I felt that it perfectly captures what we wanted to express in MILGRAM. The music is spot on.

──The song "Undercover" serves as the character song for Es (CV: Yurina Amami), who serves as a representation of the viewer. As a result, it has become something of a theme song for MILGRAM.

DECO*27: Yes, that's right. I felt a lot of pressure to create something that would help listeners understand MILGRAM - a sort of introductory song for the work.

Es sings about the emotions of various characters in the song, but the lyrics of the part where prisoners appear in the music video correspond to each character, so that's an important hint as well.

Although it can be enjoyed as a fun theme song for MILGRAM, there are various hidden clues in the music.

Once the phrase "Will I be able to forgive everything now that I know everything?" was created for the chorus, the production went smoothly.

I think this phrase is the part that everyone is scratching their heads about when analyzing the song, but every line and delivery that feels strange while listening will come to have an important meaning later on, so I'd be happy if people could listen closely.

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──Speaking of 'Undercover,' the way 'Future' is sung is quite distinctive, isn't it?

DECO*27: I provided the voice actor with a temporary recording of me singing, but I remember recording 'Future' multiple times until I was satisfied with the nuance I wanted to convey to Es (Yurina Amami).

Yamanaka: The songs for MILGRAM -ミルグラム- are created with the image of having a ratio of three parts singing to seven parts acting, as we ask the voice actors to perform. We also give them detailed directions on how we want them to act and sing.

──That's because it's an extension of the voice drama included on the CD?

DECO*27: Yes, that's right. So, if you listen to all the songs on the first installment of 'Undercover' in sequence, you'll hear a line in the last voice drama that says 'Now, sing your sins,' and the first track starts playing right after that.

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GUITAR ROCK AND ELECTRO-POP

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──And the second installment was the song ''Weakness' by Haruka (CV: Shun Horie).

DECO*27: This is a song about cannibalism.

Yamanaka: The music video created by OTOIRO was really crazy, or rather, it made me feel like saying, 'Let's do this!' In the MV, Mana Inoue created a collage that was mixed with animation. It's reassuring to see each creator playing to their strengths.

DECO*27: Using that technique, we portrayed Haruka's sin in an eerie way.

Translator Notes:

Thank you Ollie for this context. I'm horrible with Japanese puns.

The title of Haruka's songs are based on famous Yojijukugo (think of idioms) but one of the kanji is changed to a different one that sounds the same but causes the meaning to shift.

Haruka's first MV is a play on the phrase 弱肉強食じゃくにくきょうしょく (literally 'weak meat, strong eat'). it's considered similar to 'survival of the fittest.'

Haruka's MV title is 弱肉共食 'strong' becomes 'together.'

So it can be translated as 'the weak eat each other.'

Because this is a high level pun, they just went with Weakness.

Fun Fact: This is why when Weakness merch goes through machine translation it gets called like weak meat co-eat.

And while we're here, let's talk about AKAA.

It's "omniscience and omnipotence" (All Knowing and All Powerful) [全知全能 ] / [ぜんちぜんのう]

But the word 能 talent/ability is swapped for 悩 worry/distress hence "All Knowing, All Agony."

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──What is important to DECO*27 in the music of MILGRAM -ミルグラム-?

DECO*27: When it comes to the music of MILGRAM -ミルグラム-, we first considered two directions: whether to make all the sounds rock-oriented and in line with the world of MILGRAM -ミルグラム-, or to change the genre for each character.

We struggled with this decision, but ultimately chose the latter. My role is to express the story created by Takuya Yamanaka with music that suits the story and to collaborate with his work in various ways.

In the trailer currently available on YouTube, you can hear the chorus of the ten songs of the ten prisoners in the first trial. I intentionally made it so that you can hear various genres of music, so I hope you enjoy that as well.

── Indeed, the music in MILGRAM -ミルグラム- is very diverse, and it seems that rather than making everything into dark rock-oriented music just because it's a serious work, there are efforts to convey the personalities of each character.

Yamanaka: It expresses the characters' emotions, doesn't it? Even if something appears grotesque from an outsider's perspective, that person may feel like they're doing something pop. When I receive sound sources from DECO*27, I'm always surprised by how he expresses things.

── In that sense, the new release "Umbilical" by Yuuka Aisaka's character Yuno has a completely different sound from the guitar rock style of "Undercover" and "Weakness." It's a bright electro-pop tune.

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Yamanaka: From the planning stage, we talked about wanting to create a musical style that would surprise those who had heard the songs of Es and Haruka.

DECO*27: "Umbilical" is an electro-pop song, but actually, the sound of the orchestral hit (Okehi) included in the song is related to that. I purposely added the sound that was popular in the 90s before today.

Yamanaka: We also put a lot of conscious effort into the backgrounds in the music videos for each song, so if you pay attention to those, you might notice things that people who are aware of them will appreciate. Each song is also made with consideration for how the audience will feel upon first listening. As the story progresses, I think there might be new discoveries made by listening back to past songs.

DECO*27: Each CD also includes a cover of a DECO27 song, but I personally select songs that suit each character's voice. Although it only has to suit their voice, and isn't related to their personality or crime committed, we change the key and arrangement to match the character, so I hope people enjoy that aspect as well.

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TWO PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT MINDS

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──How has the response been from viewers so far?

Yamanaka: In my case, I've started to be mistaken for THE ORAL CIGARETTES' Yamanaka Takuya (vocals, guitar)… Fans of the band follow me on Twitter, and then quickly unfollow me when they realize their mistake (laughs).

DECO*27: (laughs) And also, the singing ability of the voice actors who participated this time is amazing. It makes me very happy when people notice the attention we put into that. Everyone's acting and singing were great, and they provided the correct answers from the beginning, so I thought, "I want to take it further!" and added some direction.

── At the same time, there must have been moments when the two of you rediscovered each other's charm, right?

Yamanaka: In the process of creating things together, DECO*27's notable point is that he has a very pure perspective.

In my case, when I experience some entertainment, I have a tendency to look at it from an overview perspective, thinking, "As a creator, this is what I would do."

But he receives entertainment 100% and is able to enjoy it to the fullest. That's why ideas keep coming to him. Even though we're the same age, he has a bit of a boyish charm. I think the secret to being able to continue making hit songs for over 10 years is that he can continue to maintain that charm. He has his own writing style, and constantly updates his sensitivity, which is kind of abnormal in a good way.

──On the other hand, what are the appealing qualities of Mr. Yamanaka from DECO*27's perspective?

DECO*27: In his case, he's someone who has a lot of "ifs." He has both the "ifs" of success and the "ifs" of failure preconceived, so he has a large tree of "what ifs" prepared. In my case, when something unexpected happens, I panic and say "oh no!" but he calmly makes choices.

Yamanaka: I'm a pessimist, so I think about what to do when things don't go well.

──In that sense, MILGRAM -ミルグラム- is a project where two people with different personalities come together.

DECO*27: I really think so. By just watching how we would write the character's dialogue, you can tell our brain works differently. In MILGRAM -ミルグラム-, the characters' lines are sometimes quoted in my lyrics. On the other hand, during the voice drama recording, I sometimes think, "he picked that up from my lyrics!" And he (Yamanaka-san) even helps me find the right phrases, like "that's it" or "that's perfect!"

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IF EVERYONE IS FORGIVEN, THEN LET'S SHOW THEM HELL

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──It's really interesting how your exchange influences each other, and how the project's content changes based on the choices of the viewers

Yamanaka: That's why depending on the viewers' choices, it may lead to a surprising development that even we didn't expect, like "Oh, so this is how it turns out...!" It's both exciting and enjoyable for us.

──As viewers, what should we look forward to in the future?

DECO*27: From a musical standpoint, the songs in the first trial serve as an introduction and explanation of each character's crime. We hope you'll enjoy seeing how each character's singing voice and style come together. The chorus emphasizes melody, but we also focused on bringing out the unique personality of each character in the other parts, so I hope people pay attention to that while enjoying the visuals as well.

──Based on what I heard earlier, the music is quite diverse. There are songs that adhere to "character song" conventions, while others incorporate trap elements. Additionally, there are songs that combine soul and R&B elements with city pop, and even some with death voice.

DECO*27: This was made possible with the help of Rockwell's power. The songs with trap parts are conscious of overseas trends, and the city pop-like songs are sung by cool characters. Please pay attention to the combination of characters and music genres.

──What about you, Mr. Yamanaka?

Yamanaka: In MILGRAM -ミルグラム-, we want viewers to think and consider things, but whether their considerations are correct or not is not really a big deal.

Rather, I would be happy if they could confront their own emotions and imagination through the characters from various perspectives, such as, "If this were the case, I would not forgive them." or "If this were the case, I might forgive them." This is not only important in MILGRAM -ミルグラム-, but also in life.

── You want us to have the opportunity not only to learn about the characters, but also to learn about ourselves.

Yamanaka: That's right. That's why we want to treat the characters not just as two-dimensional characters, but as human beings. We want people to think about how they would feel if such a person actually existed.

──Does MILGRAM -ミルグラム- relate to what you just talked about, given that its name comes from the Milgram Experiment which studied the psychology of people who obey authority?

Yamanaka: It does, but not just that. Although it is titled MILGRAM -ミルグラム- , the situation is more like the Stanford prison experiment. A psychological experiment in which subjects were divided into prisoners and guards in a prison-like facility to observe their behavior. However, the question of what the Milgram Experiment was trying to prove is at the core of the work.

──What do you personally expect from MILGRAM -ミルグラム-in the future?

Yamanaka: It's not exactly what I'm expecting, but I assume that everyone will lean towards "forgiving" all the characters. But if they were all forgiven, I would "show them hell" (laughs).

DECO*27: (laughs). To put it in real terms, forgiving a murder means that those people will all come back into society as they are.

Yamanaka: Yes, that's right. But on the other hand, there is certainly the love of family members. Depending on the distance between that person and oneself, I think the way one feels will surely change. That's what's really interesting. For me, it's like I'm doing a psychological experiment (laughs).

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