#ASoiaf meta

[alsethwisson]

Also, grrm writes more women, yes, but his female characters are almost invariably a prop either for his own kinks, or for his male characters.

With Tolkien, if he writes a female character (as opposed to just inventing a name and leaving it at that), he treats her no different than a male character. As in, she will have her own motivation, desires, interests, friend circle, all that stuff. Basically, she will be a person.

With grrm, sadly, that's not what usually happens. His female characters too often have little personhood; too often they exist solely to provide either drama or titillation. His chosen style of closed third-person narration is often used as an excuse ("Jaime has no means to see Amerei as more than a slutty prop" etc) but the thing is, he finds a way to give us insight into episodic male characters.

And the less said about "Fire and blood" the better.

Ioreth is more of a person than all the daughters of Oberin, and that is something to mull over.

What I mean to say, yes, Tolkien is conservative, old-fashioned (though not as old-fashioned as fandom would him be) and all that, but he had more respect for his female characters and their personhood than grrm ever did.

GRRM may write more women than Tolkien, but as a woman I would feel much safer in Tolkien's world, and around the author himself

[goodqueenaly]

Considering the public version of Baelish and Sansa's situation, as in him being a doting father to his only child, albeit illegitimate, does it raise some perplexity among the Vale nobility that he wouldn't ask for a legitimisation? Alayne is his only child, he's unmarried at the moment, and any male heir he could have in the future would preceed her anyway. Or is legitimisation done exclusively in cases of emergency, aka when literally no other legitimate heir is available?

It’s worth emphasizing that legitimization is a relatively pretty rare process: of the dozens of acknowledged bastards we know of in the history of Westeros, only two (outside the blanket legitimization issued by Aegon IV on his deathbed) have ever been formally legitimized (three if you count Jon Snow, who was all but certainly legitimized by Robb’s will but whose legitimized status is not yet widely known in-universe). Importantly, in each of those cases - Ramsay Snow, the sons of Marilda of Hull, and Jon Snow - the legitimization came about specifically because the lord or king in question had no surviving legitimate son to inherit after him (at least officially - I very much believe Mushroom’s assertion that Corlys was the biological l father of Addam and Alyn of Hull). (Again, Aegon IV is the exception here - I don’t even think he was really trying to push Daemon as his alternative heir - but I believe Aegon’s move was a sort of final “fuck you” to the future King Daeron II, a last petty stab at the son he hated rather than a genuine politico-dynastic decision by the dying king.) Likewise, only Aegon IV ever chose to legitimize a daughter (and again, only in the context of a blanket legitimization); even Oberyn Martell, for example, who held out each of his daughters as his own far earlier than Littlefinger was supposed to have done for “Alayne” (and indeed, lived with the mother of his four youngest daughters as effectively a married couple in a nuclear family), never apparently sought to legitimize any of them. Nor indeed should it be forgotten how serious a process legitimization is: only a king can legitimize a bastardborn Westerosi, and once so legitimized, both that person and his (or her) descendants would be legitimate forever.

So far from the assembled aristocracy of the Vale finding it odd that Littlefinger would not be pressing for Sansa-as-Alayne to be legitimized, I think these aristocrats would be surprised, even shocked if Littlefinger tried to make his “daughter” legitimate by royal decree. After all, the public narrative about “Alayne Stone” is that Littlefinger didn’t even know of her existence until very recently - when “at [her] flowering [“Alayne”] decided [she] did not wish to be a septa and wrote to [Littlefinger]”. While Littlefinger might have publicly recognized Sansa-as-Alayne as his daughter, and treated her relatively well by Westerosi standards (remember, this is a world where Lord Hewett made his own extramarital daughter a house servant to his wife and their children), Alayne’s social position is at best a liminal one - able to act in some ways as the lady of the Arryn household, but in other ways (as Littlefinger, Myranda Royce, and Harry Hardyng all remind her) very much considered the inferior of her blue-blood neighbors. Moreover, I think many in the Vale would anticipate that Littlefinger - now Lord of Harrenhal in addition to being Lord Protector of the Vale and the richest thief man in Westeros - would marry and produce legitimate (male) heirs of his own; indeed, Myranda teases Sansa-as-Alayne on this point, remarking that Littlefinger “needs a pretty young wife to wash away his grief” and that he “could have his pick of half the noble maidens in the Vale” (including, as she later jokes to Sansa-as-Alayne in TWOW, Myranda herself). In turn, the idea that Littlefinger, having such standing, would choose to go through the significant effort of petitioning the king to elevate a bastard teenage girl as his heiress, when he himself could marry a suitably aristocratic bride and have a legitimate son of his body to succeed him, would so grossly contrast with the patriarchal and classist socio-political expectations of Westerosi aristocracy that I think the move would cause nothing but muttering and suspicion.

What Littlefinger wants to avoid most of all with Sansa-as-Alayne is undue attention being cast on her, at least until Littlefinger himself feels ready to reveal her as Sansa Stark. Indeed, this was the entire purpose of choosing a bastard disguise for Sansa in the first place: when Sansa suggests that she could portray herself as “the trueborn daughter of some knight in [his] service”, Littlefinger reminds her that “[s]uch a tale would draw unwanted questions”, while then noting that “[i]t is rude to pry into the origins of a man's natural children”. Therefore, Littlefinger’s treatment of Sansa has to fit within the socio-political expectations of Westerosi and specifically Vale aristocratic life - which is to say, not promoting bastards above their station (again, according to the rules imposed by the elites in this society). No one, I think, would expect, much less encourage, the rich and powerfully landed widower Littlefinger to hold out his bastardborn “daughter” as his heiress, still less to go through the process of legitimizing her; better, for Littlefinger’s scheme at least, to leave her as a recognized but still illegitimate child, and trust in polite society’s reluctance to pry further, rather than foster speculation by taking the unorthodox move of pressing for her legitimization.

[queenbeyondthewall]

Final stop on the Lannister siblings/Hozier self-titled campaign is From Eden, one of my first Hozier infatuations and to this day one of my favourite songs of all time. The absolutely unavoidable aura of Jaime/Brienne that comes from this song motivated me to write these analyses. A romance between a completely disillusioned narrator and a youth whose idealism he recognizes, outwardly dismisses, and inwardly admires? I hope this is already screaming Jaime/Brienne at you.

Babe, there’s something tragic about you Something so magic about you, don’t you agree? Babe, there’s something lonesome about you Something so wholesome about you, get closer to me

Reading this as Jaime’s thoughts about Brienne is pretty straightforward, I think. Brienne’s story is rather tragic - she's an outcast due to the rigid gender norms of her society, lonesome and desperate for acceptance and respect (from people like Renly to Catelyn and eventually to Jaime himself.) The real tragedy is that we (and Jaime) can see that she’s one of the few truly good people in this story, despite the lack of appreciation from her surroundings. Her kindness, courage, skill, and honour are in short supply in Westeros.

No tired sigh, no rolling eyes, no irony No “who cares,” no vacant stare, no time for me

The Jaime/Cersei/Brienne triangle is pretty renowned, and not only for the obvious romances. These lines, especially in contrast to the warmth of the ones before, seem to highlight the aspects of his former life that Jaime has grown so tired of. The cool reception that Jaime receives from Cersei upon his return to King’s Landing, including the detachment of the sept sex scene and her mockery of his severed hand, contribute to showing him how the two of them might not be one soul in two bodies after all.

Honey, you’re familiar, like my mirror years ago Idealism sits in prison, chivalry fell on his sword Innocence died screaming, honey, ask me, I should know I slithered here from Eden just to sit outside your door

Now the chorus, aka the most braime set of lines that have ever been sung. On the face of it, this verse is gently dismissive of the idealism that Jaime sees reflected in Brienne from his own youth. Jaime would have us believe that he has seen through the lie of honour, of true knighthood, the lie that allows Kingsguard to be called the finest knights in the realm while they stand by and watch tyrants rape and torture and murder. Take this quote, for example.

“A boy knelt; a knight rose. The Young Lion, not the Kingslayer. But that was long ago, and the boy was dead.” - AFFC Jaime I

Really? If that boy and the idealism he represented died long ago, why does Jaime send Brienne off on a mission to rescue Sansa as his “last chance for honour?” Why does he name the sword he gifts her Oathkeeper? From Eden’s speaker dismisses the idealistic viewpoint of its subject in one breath, but is drawn towards it in the next, much as Jaime is drawn towards Brienne because of her relentless idealism, not in spite of it.

Babe, there’s something broken about this, But I might be hoping about this, oh what a sin.

There it is - hope. Jaime trusts Brienne because he hopes against hope that she can finally prove the ideals of knighthood as true and attainable.

A rope in hand for your other man to hang from a tree

Ok so this is a minor point but. THIS. This is the line that genuinely makes me stop and consider if Andrew Hozier-Byrne is secretly a massive asoiaf fan. WHY ELSE would he include a line like this that is so clearly a reference to the one and only Hyle Hunt?! Hyle Hunt, whose house’s sigil is that of a hung deer, who accompanies Brienne throughout AFFC, who was a suitor to her hand in marriage, whose last appearance on page is as he’s being hanged, and who is predicted to die in TWOW by hanging? I just. I can’t. It’s too much. Thematically I guess hanging is a motif throughout AFFC, especially in the Riverlands with Brienne and the BwB, and they will be very relevant to Jaime and Brienne's story early in TWOW. I guess.

This song is terribly romantic which fits because to me Jaime and Brienne are the main love story of the series. I had a lot of fun writing this and hopefully you can now join me in bashing my head against a wall every time I listen to this song and am reminded of them.

[ladystoneboobs]

so, one aspect of catelyn which i think is underrated (certainly the biggest adaptation loss which nobody talks about) is her, let's say superstitiousness, or better yet, let's call it genre-savviness, being one of the few adult characters open to magic and the supernatural in this fantasy world. we first meet her in the godswood, home of gods which are not truly hers, yet she is still very aware of their power. when she and ned talk of the deserter he killed, he hopes he won't have to go with the nw to deal with mance rayder, but she has even more fear of that idea bc there are worse things beyond the wall than just wildlings. ned scoffs and says she's been listening to old nan too much, but she's right. we already know from the prologue that she's right! and here she is, understanding the genre of their world better than her husband, who was actually born and spent his earliest years in this northern land of deep magic, listening to old nan's stories. same with the direwolves, where she was uncomfortable with them at first, but later believed in them as guardians from the old gods even after robb had lost his own faith. and once again, we know she's right even if she doesn't know the evidence to back up her instincts, bc summer and shaggydog did not fail bran and rickon and robb was almost certainly a warg like his brothers. (perhaps making it more fitting that she's the one brought back as a fantasy vengeance monster, not ned and robb, the most unbelieving dead starks.) and in her 2nd agot chapter, everyone focuses on her ambition in wanting ned to agree to the hand job (pun intended) and sansa's betrothal, and while she does recognize the value of their daughter being a future queen more than ned does, that's only her stated argument bc she thinks it's rational enough for ned to listen to. (if ambitious matchmaking were as important to her as to her father she never would have made those frey betrothals fandom loves to blame her for.) in her own head there's a deeper urge driving her. she keeps thinking of the dead direwolf with antlers in its throat, an omen which filled her with dread from the first she heard of it, before robert's arrival, and thinking of it again is what makes her desperate to convince ned not to refuse robert. she had to make him see. and really, she's not wrong, as jon snow would say. the dead direwolf was an omen of ned and robert getting each other killed. it's just one of those misread portents, with no way of knowing the danger to ned was in his loyalty to robert, not conflict with him. BUT the next time she's dealing with baratheons, she knows exactly what she's talking about. it's catelyn, not brienne, who sees the shadow slaying renly, and explains that it was stannis who did that through some dark magic. with no way of knowing how it was achieved and no prior expectation that such a thing were ever possible, she realizes with no hestitation that stannis was guilty and that his red witch was capable of pulling this off somehow. really, the only instinct of the supernatural she's wholly wrong about is her insistence that varys gathered his knowledge through some dark enchantment. however, though that might offend varys, given his own personal experience with a sorcerer, i'd say it's a reasonable assumption without knowing the dude had children moving through walls everywhere like oversized rodents. and imo it just shows she had a healthy respect and awe for varys's power which most other characters lack.

oh, oh, and let's not forget that she also believed in the curse of harrenhal, from her own childhood and the stories old nan told her kids. "and every house that held Harrenhal since had come to misfortune. Strong it might be, but it was a dark place, and cursed. 'I would not have Robb fight a battle in the shadow of that keep,' Catelyn admitted." sure, that wasn't enough to save robb, but he did not die from the curse of harrenhal. that doom was meant for his enemies from tywin lannister to roose bolton.

[lookatthethrones]

Babe, why would you hide this in the tags?

I’m reading the three musketeers and found out that Brienne is a medieval French country and guess what the coat of arms was for the ‘Counts of Brienne’ was, a fricking lion!

This can’t be just a coincidence right?? George is subtly hinting that Brienne will marry Jaime, I mean the background is blue, it’s like a combo of their two houses!

[winterprince601]

honestly, i don't blame anyone for not making the connection between rhaegar targaryen and jon snow. they are such different guys to me. you could organically stumble upon rhaegar playing a silver harp in a clearing in the woods, silently weeping into the flowing waters of a crystalline stream. jon is the teenage manager of a fast food chain who sometimes shows up to work dripping wet because he doesn't own an umbrella.

[jaehaeryshater]

The King Come Over and his bride Ygritte Firekissed

art by : @shripscapi

Edited to add: I was hoping that people that did not like this ship could still appreciate the art as I gave them two separate pieces, but people have been coming into my inbox on all platforms, so let me encourage you to block the Jongritte and Ygritte tags on tumblr or twt, as well as me so you will not have to see it if this is you. I also would encourage you to create your own AU as it is very fun. My AU is based on Jon becoming King before leaving the Freefolk, so following his psychology as a character, Ygritte is his only choice as consort as long as she’s alive. You can make your own with Val if you want, but I do not owe anyone to pay for commissions of their preferred characters.

Look at my King dawg we’re definitely getting through the Wall!!!

For the last month and a half, I have been working closely with Liesl to design concepts for Jon as King Beyond the Wall and Ygritte as his Queen. Personally, I’m not invested at all in Jon becoming King of the Seven Kingdoms despite him being my favorite character. He’s not very connected with the South and I don’t feel that it’s his birth right or anything, even being the son of Rhaegar. I am significantly more interested in him becoming King in the North, but my interest in Freefolk culture has led me to be far more invested in the idea of him rejecting Southron society as a whole and becoming King Beyond the Wall (this isn’t necessarily mutually exclusive to being King in the North later on).

The motivation for Jon becoming King as opposed to Mance stems from a theory that has been around since AGOT has come out: that the Others will only treat with/negotiate with a Stark. In the prologue of AGOT, when the Others are speaking among themselves before killing the Watchmen, what if they were confirming with each other that Waymar Royce was not a Stark and that they could go ahead and kill him? All in all, it doesn’t really matter if this is true, but rather that this is a plausible rumor that could easily have been passed down among the Freefolk which could lead Mance to conclude that Jon as a leader would give the Freefolk the best chance of survival. It’s not very hard, at least in my opinion, to imagine an AU like this, since survival is the most important thing to the Freefolk during the events of ASOIAF. But is it plausible that under these circumstances that Jon would abandon his Night’s Watch vows? I think so if he can be led to believe that only Stark blood could defeat the Others, but that is not the only factor. Jon Snow is insecure about his bastard status, plain and simple. He’s always lived in the shadow of his Robb, though he loved him. He’s wanted Winterfell, though he didn’t want to nor had any intention to take it from Robb. But he’s known since he was a small boy that he could never Winterfell and that would never inherit anything because he was a bastard. Jon also has thoughts, at least in passing, that Ned loved Robb more than him. He perceives Ned as having been more proud of Robb, of looking at him differently than himself. He’s seemingly always believed this, but there is a sort of confirmation of Jon’s feelings when Ned allows him to join the Night’s Watch without much preparation on what the Watch is actually like. Fully me making assumptions here, not something Jon has explicitly thought, but it’s unlikely that Ned would have sent Bran off at 14 to the Watch without much warning of what it was like, had Bran not become paralyzed. While we never get this exact thought process from Jon, in my opinion it fits into his psychology and insecurity. All this to say, if Jon is offered to be a figurehead, King, a title equal to his brother, but without taking anything away from the Starks or from Robb, that would almost certainly scratch that itch in him. It would be of his own merit, and there would be people behind him that don’t care that he’s a bastard, don’t see him as less than, and are willing to accept him for who he is. Not to mention that it also lets him feel like a hero and as if he is saving something far more precious than himself. And it probably doesn’t hurt that he would be able to remain with Ygritte as well.

We know from the descriptions of Mance and Dalla, as well as from being told directly by the former, that the King and his wife dress like all the other Freefolk, in thick furs. While the Jon and Ygritte arts from above are not particularly ostentatious by Southron standards, they are in obvious contrast to how Mance and Dalla are dressed. My idea was that Jon, having lived South of the Wall in a Lord’s keep all of his life, brought his own ideas to the Freefolk and added a distinction between a King and all other men. Nothing like in King’s Landing, all changes are inspired by his experience at Winterfell. I tried to think of what was achievable by the Freefolk, that would be difficult enough that it can’t be easily replicated for everyone else, but also keeping in mind of what could be done relatively quickly seeing as the Freefolk are focused on migrating South and saving themselves from the Others. The cultures I took inspiration for the clothing from are the Byzantines, Russians, Incans, Aztecs, and Mongolians. I wanted more “open” and flowy clothing, as opposed to more closed off and excessively modest clothing of 1300-1500s Europe that most of Westeros is based off of. Ygritte is still wearing furs, but they are dyed and there is weirwood embroidery in symbolism of the Old Gods and flame embroidery to symbolize her being kissed by fire. Her jewelry are simply clay beads that have been powdered blue. I didn’t want to give her any jewels as I felt it would be too difficult for the Freefolk to cut them directly and just overall would be against the spirit of the Freefolk. However, getting the blue on the clay like that still would be expensive and take a lot of time. I tried to keep the main color scheme surrounding gray as obviously that’s House Stark’s color. Jon’s clothes are similarly nice, with my main concern being him looking intimidating. I want the furs around his shoulders to be black because I wanted to call back to his time in the Night’s Watch without him keeping his psychical cloak, because I’m sure the Freefolk would not want him to do that. The furs are massive and make his shoulders look far larger, in an effort to make him look more intimidating, especially on a battlefield or in negotiations. He also has weirwood embroidery and his sigil is on the front of his outfit (my original idea was for him to have a flag with his heraldry on it, in which case the sigil would have looked far different, with a full length direwolf). There’s a white wolf on one side and either a crow or eagle on the other side (up for interpretation, both are relevant to Jon and one is one of the animals that can be used a symbol of the Freefolk) and the flame in the middle to represent Ygritte, but also defeating the Others as fire is the way Jon originally tried combating them as a steward at the Wall. The sigil is more than about Jon, after all, as it’s for the entirety of House Whitewolf, the House he founds. I thought the name fit far more in to Freefolk culture than something like Whitestark or something along those lines. Ygritte was supposed to have sewn on the sigil herself, and was very adamant about it, and that is meant to be why the thread is uneven and more visible than it ought to be. She’s not very good at the craft!

As I indicated before, crowns are not something common to Freefolk. That would be something else Jon would implement. Ygritte’s crown is very much like a hat, very casual. The beads are nice but obtaining them wouldn’t be unheard of, and holly most likely would not be particularly hard to come by. The reason I gave her a crown with holly is that during Christmas in the Tudor period and even before during pagan celebrations, people would go out into the woods and find holly and ivy to decorate their houses with. Holly was a symbol of masculine energy and ivy feminine energy. If you found more holly, it was meant to indicate that the man would rule the household for the year, and if you found more ivy then the woman would rule the household in the coming year (this was a way to ���tell the future” not a rule lol). I liked the holly better for Ygritte so I’m just saying the Freefolk had the opposite belief. Jon’s crown is made of weirwood, which was important to me as I feel like his connection the Old Gods is also important as it is something that him and Freefolk both use to guide them. It ties them together. That being said, a weirwood crown is often used for Bran so I did not want to use a design that was too similar to the one used for him. Bran’s weirwood crown usually is made of weirwood branches, however, and not weirwood bark or logs, so I feel like it’s different enough. The frozen weirwood sap, as far as I know, is also unique to this design. There’s also some ivy to parallel with Ygritte’s holly.

The remaining bits and bobs I wanted to explain are the blue rose and then the face paint. The blue rose is obviously something associated with Lyanna Stark, who is widely accepted to be the mother of Jon Snow. I originally wanted to give him a rose somewhere, whether he was holding it or it was in his embroidery, but I forgot to ask during sketching, and then it was too late. But Ygritte holding the blue rose isn’t just about Lyanna. It’s also about Bael the Bard, a most likely fictitious person (or at least, the tale is fictitious, though I personally choose to believe it’s real) that went South of the Wall posing as a bard. He impressed the Lord of Winterfell so much that he granted Bael anything he wished; all Bael asked for was the most beautiful flower in Winterfell. This was granted for him, but the next morning he had stolen the Lord of Winterfell’s only child, a girl, and had left the flower in her bed in her place. He hid in the crypt with her for a year and they had a son together. Bael eventually went back North of the Wall and eventually Winterfell, having no other heir, passed to Bael’s child. Under this story, Jon is descended from Ygritte’s idol (maybe idol is stretching it, but she really likes him), Bael the Bard. Not only him, but all the Freefolk including Ygritte, according to her story. Following the story’s premise, Jon also poses as Bael and Ygritte as Winterfell’s daughter, with Jon joining her home under false pretenses and “stealing her”, as she calls it. So the blue rose has significance regarding both the Starks and the Freefolk. The face paint is inspired by tattooing done by cultures indigenous to North America. Indigenous Americans are not the only groups to use facial tattooing, the Vikings were famous for it as well, but Viking facial tattooing had more patterns based on shapes rather than lines and dots. I didn’t like the shapes so much, but the chin tattoo was one was that observed in all sorts of different cultures. Usually the chin tattoos with the line were on women in indigenous America, but I found some on men in other outside cultures. The dots I didn’t see outside of Native American culture and the claw marks on Jon’s cheeks I found mainly among Vikings. Because these all are an amalgamation of different cultures, we did them as face paint instead of tattoos because it seemed disrespectful otherwise. Not enough research went into it to be a proper representation of any one culture so paint was a better bet than a permanent body modification that is sacred to a number of cultures. The only thing that was meant to be a tattoo was the chin tattoo, which like I said, actually is from an amalgamation of cultures. Among the Freefolk (in this AU), dots on the cheeks are widespread, one of cultural mainstays of their people, and are generally a sign of peace, whereas the claws are meant to look intimidating and is applied to look like blood (Ygritte applies it for Jon) and is specifically used for military leaders. I really wanted to drive home the point that the goal with Jon’s whole look is to look fearsome.

I have so much more to say about Jon as King Beyond the Wall, how he negotiates with the Wall, the different rules he sets in place, how he sets up being King as a hereditary title once his daughter Bael is born, etc etc, but then I’d be here all day and approximately one person total read through all this. Oops! Ask in my inbox if you have any questions because I would love love love to answer them. All in all, shripscapi (Liesl) is so talented and she worked incredibly hard for me. She was extremely accommodating and changed as much stuff as I wanted. She never complained about the million times I decided something was not quite right and she sent me so many updates. I would recommend working with her to just about anybody. It was very cool what she was able to achieve and I got it in time for the holidays so I can enjoy my winter themed pfp on twt. So thank you from the bottom of my heart Liesl, and I hope everyone showers her with compliments because she deserves it. I also hope that people that don’t enjoy Ygritte very much can still appreciate the art and the concept of Jon as King Beyond the Wall. Hopefully I’ve gotten across how much I love and care for these characters to a chronically online degree and nobody accuses me of mischaracterizing them because that would make me!!!! very sad!!!

Bonus Jon with weirwood leaves:

[knightingale]

The "Sansa reminds Sandor of his sister" motive that some people try to hitch to his character really just flies in the face of his actual attachments to her, doesn't it? Sansa reminds Sandor of himself. He sees the little boy who used to love knights in this girl who's been swept up by the same romanticism. He sees his abuser in her abusers, the much larger knight(s) beating on the helpless child. He sees how she is betrayed by every level of authority that should have saved her and remembers his father's neglect and Tywin and Robert's apathy for Gregor's crimes. He's protective of Sansa because he was Sansa.

And GRRM's design, that one of the strongest warriors in the series, a fearsome and cynical 6'8" guy who's "muscled like a bull" and has the face of death itself, sees himself in this soft and effeminate teen girl, and empathizes with her because he was an abuse victim too, is INFINITELY more compelling than "Oh yeah I bet she just reminds him of his sister," who he's never mentioned and who we know literally nothing about. Way to unnecessarily water down a character, you couldn't have ignored the black and white text more efficiently if you tried.

[meanlikeachild]

oh nothing, just thinking about how Robb chose duty over love when he refused to trade Jamie for Sansa and Arya and got killed and how Jon chose love over duty when he was going to desert the night watch to go save his little sister from her abusive husband and he too got killed. Theres just no winning, whatever you chose.

[readorsigh]

I die a little inside every time asoiaf fans don't know what colonialism is or use the word colonialism to describe every single military takeover or conquest that has ever happened.

[qyburn-in-the-black-cells]

no actually, rhaenyra hearing i’m a bastard from both her eldest sons and being unable to reassure them is so painful. luke might’ve couched the statement in insecurity about his abilities which she can soothe but there’s no way “it should’ve gone to ser vaemond” would’ve come out if he believed he was legitimate. with jace she says nothing because there’s nothing she can say. like alicent has nothing to say to aegon other than “you imbecile.” personal and political lives are one and the same in westeros. alicent first fails her children in the personal. rhaenyra first fails in the political.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

I saw someone asking why Alicent Hightower and Criston Cole seem to be getting more hate than Joffrey Baratheon or Ramsay Bolton ever did.

The answer to that question is very simple.

Joffrey and Ramsay were just cartoonishly evil, so to speak. They were fun to watch and read about sometimes. They made good villains, and they knew that they were villains (never attempting to hide it).

Alicent and Cole (and Otto as well), on the other hand, are the kind of people you meet in real life as well. The kind of people you absolutely can’t stand for their false piety, their hypocrisy, their gold digging, their double-standards, their constant judgmental attitude, and cruel intentions.

In other words:

Joffrey and Ramsay are TV/book villains.

Alicent, Otto and Cole are real life villains.

[angelwingtrap]

A bird of suspiciously human-like sentience and symbolic dreams have been trying to get Jon’s attention RELENTLESSLY for 5 books straight and he is utterly clueless.

Meanwhile Theon has one (1) divine experience and is like “ohh I see there’s some shit going on here…the gods have plans for me…the ravens and the trees speak…they know my name…wow there sure a lot of ravens in the heart tree today…I’ll take the cue from the tree and find strength in myself to become Theon again to fufill my purpose”

[franzkafkagf]

Thinking about the three times Criston Cole is mentioned in the main series. The first two mentions of Criston come from the POV of Arys Oakheart, a member of the Kingsguard whose soiled white cloak mirrors Cole’s own. He thinks about Criston, it's clear he does not really know what to make of this man; what were his motives, what goals did he chase? Criston and Rhaenyra. Arys and Arianne. Duty and Love.

All things come round again. The dragon eats its own tail, just as House Targaryen once cannibalized itself. The wheel turns, and the same patterns repeat. One knight kneels to defend the birthright of two women while the other took up the sword to cast a woman down from her throne.

When Arys sinks to one knee before Arianne and swears his sword to her, he casts himself as her champion and protector, a righteous defender of her claim. He is everything Criston Cole was not—or so he believes. Criston abandoned Rhaenyra for ambition or resentment, while Arys protects Arianne for love and justice. Ser Arys the Righteous, the knight who will stand where Criston faltered. A Queenmaker come to set right the wrongs a Kingmaker wrought long ago.

The final mention of Criston Cole comes from Jaime's POV as he gazes upon the White Book.

The White Book is sparse, reduced to titles and deeds, devoid of the messy truths behind them. Ser Criston did not simply make a king—he destroyed a king’s will. He did not merely defend the customs of the Andals—he sparked a war that tore the dragons from the skies and broke the might of House Targaryen. Ser Criston Cole, a knight of a house so minor its sigil is forgotten, shaped the fate of empires. "Kingmaker," they call him. Not oathbreaker.

"Kingslayer," they call Jaime. A villain. A man of no honor. Oathbreaker. Like Criston, he betrayed his king—but the meaning of that betrayal is lost in the shadow of the act itself. Jaime slew Aerys to save thousands. Criston betrayed Rhaenyra for Aegon, for ambition, for duty—or perhaps for nothing more than wounded pride. The truth of Criston’s motives, like Jaime’s, has been buried.

The wheel spins endlessly, grinding down the truth until only fragments remain: Criston the Kingmaker. Jaime the Kingslayer. One who made a king, the other who killed one. And what goes around comes around.

[jozor-johai]

Because the concept of "historical accuracy" gets brought up in regards to ASOIAF despite it being a fantasy series and therefore not requiring historical accuracy, I think it's really worth realizing the degree and manner in which GRRM is drawing from history. He consults historical texts to be sure, but what he seems to focus on is how the style of older historical texts delivers these tales as stories, and how much hearsay makes it into the documents.

GRRM likes stories, more than history for its own sake, which makes sense; he's a storyteller. This appreciation is how we get Fire & Blood, plenty of attention to tales told rather than representative history.

Emblematic of this is his response to his inspiration for Stannis: GRRM says that Stannis is inspired by Tiberius Caesar, but he qualifies that this is "in some part Tiberius from history, but to a greater extent specifically Tiberius from the TV series 'I, Claudius'" (my paraphrasing). He's open with the fact that, rather than trying to mirror history, GRRM is drawing inspiration from other stories and media about history.

And so we should not understand ASOIAF as a fantasy filter over a historical framework, we should understand ASOIAF as building on and responding to stories first, both fantasy and history—and especially where the two get confused.

So when people complain that his feudal model is more rooted in pop-history and has little actual functionality, I think that's fine; perhaps it's even the point, whether GRRM intends it to be or not. ASOIAF is not the real medieval era, but rather has roots in the fantastic way that medieval aesthetics have been developed.

This is also applicable to his oft-cited inspiration for the series as a whole structure, the War of the Roses. GRRM frequently says that the War of the Roses was the single biggest influence, but lately I've been wondering if what he really means is that the Henry VI + Richard III Shakespeare tetralogy is the biggest influence, because in truth the Shakespearean parallels we find often feel more informative for the text of ASOIAF than the strictly historical comparisons.

[ladystoneboobs]

imo one of the biggest proofs of sansa's character growth post-agot (which seems to be overlooked) is this, where grrm makes sure we know how her perspective of the trident incident has indeed shifted. why else even say this? it's not what the tyrells wanted to know, they asked about joff's treatment of her in particular, and "he lied about the butcher's boy" means nothing without context (and even if she said the lannisters used that lie to justify killing mycah, i doubt olenna, at least, would care). but for sansa atp, joffrey's sins against mycah are worth remembering and reporting as his first crime (known to her), that incident is now recognized as evidence of joff's montrosity, the wrongs committed against mycah by joffrey personally (as in not even his death) are on par with sansa losing her wolf and being beaten by the kg. sure, she still has some classism remaining, but to say she cares nothing for the smallfolk, and is still the same girl disgusted by mycah's smellyness, who later repeated joffrey's lie about him weeks after the fact and blamed arya for lady's death more than joffrey, that's just demonstrably untrue.