#AFO critical

[sapphic-agent]

Just noting something regarding your ask regarding nobody saying Kotaro to be abusive.

Considering All For One's involvement with his life and family, and considering All For One's shtick of every misfortune comes from me, I wouldn't be surprised if he said and pushed Kotaro to be abusive. It wouldn't surprise me at least.

Yeah because for some reason AFO is way too obsessed with Nana's family💀 Like my guy, you already killed her and her husband and made her son an orphan, can you leave them alone?

I think it was implied during the Final War that he did do this in some way? Idk I haven't read it. But honestly, I feel like it makes AFO more pathetic. Like him opportunistically picking a battered Tenko off the streets under the guise of helping him seems more evil and manipulative than him planning the whole thing out.

I'm pretty sure this is a retcon btw. In the early parts of MHA, AFO felt more like a genuine mentor to Tomura. Like he wanted Tomura to come into his own power as a villain. Him always planning to take Tomura's body makes his early characterization feel inconsistent. Idk maybe it's just me

[doodlegirl1998]

I saw your ask about how you would change MHA and want to add...AFO should be utterly pathetic.

Yes. I love evil mastermind as much the next guy. But AFO is a loser, look he has a powerful quirk and could have taken down the world but he instead figgle his tumbs and pines over Yoichi.

(The final villains should have been Redestro and HC)

Like the man is such loser...if I see any fic where he is a competent villain...I will think is an oc.

But let me ask you this: aside fron how loser AFO is, have you noticed how the world in mha seems to be a dystopia?

Hi @mikeellee 👋,

My issue with AFO is essentially this, he was built up by Hori at the beginning as someone who was meant to be the big bad, intimidating, powerful and a real threat to the heroes.

Yet later in the series he makes some of the most dumbass and infuriating decisions and reactions. I'll give some examples:

Screwing Shiggy's potential as a threatening villain in his own right? - AFO's fault.

AFO getting scared by a first year (Tokoyami and Dark Shadow) and getting strange PTSD off Bakugou? What the fuck was that Hori?!

Staying in Tartarus and waiting for Shig to get him out even though he could bust out at anytime himself? Lazy motherfucker.

Getting tricked by first year's including the UA traitor, who he didn't think to secure the loyalty of somehow? Like I don't know by making Yuuga explode like we just saw him do to Nagant? Yeah AFO didn't think to do that apparently...

I can find pathetic AFO funny and can laugh about it at times however an reflective issue of that on the story is this : If AFO becomes a pathetic villain by extension all the OFA holders 1 - 8 (including All Might become pathetic too.) Because if he is pathetic it shouldn't take 8/9 generations of OFA holders to end him.

As for your next point -

The main villains should be ReDestro and the HPSC. I can see where you're coming from and I think it would be a more interesting story if they were bigger villians. Many themes and ideas would tie organically here

1) ReDestro could have a quirk marriage of his own to carry on and strengthen his / his families legacy. (A good idea you gave to me in our private messages. This would fit his character.)

2) Geten being a Himura would tie in organically here as well as having him parallel Endeavor's lust for power/ attitude.

It would tie more into the world building of MHA and "heroic corruption" that Hori tells us off but never shows (bar Endeavor whose pathetic redemption undermines that anyway.)

And the final point - is MHA as a dystopia?

So a Dystopia is defined as this on Google

'An imagined state or society in which there is great suffering or injustice, typically one that is totalitarian or post-apocalyptic.'

Hmmm. Yes I can see where you are coming from. I would definitely say that Hori wanted to set it up as the heroic industry / society being corrupt and flawed initially and Deku / his peers to be the one to change that before he pivoted hard away from this angle and the systemic issues go ignored.

Quirkless Discrimination? Unexplored / unresolved.

Mutant Discrimination? Barely given the focus it deserved.

HPSC corruption? Destroyed by a ReDestro clone so they're now a non issue except when Hori wants us to feel sympathy for Hawks or Nagant.

Quirk marriages/ corrupt heroes like Endeavor? Well a 'hero' like that could easily happen again because he received no consequence for being an abusive POS or engaging in a quirk marriage. Also the ranking system remains in place so someone else abusive, powerful and equally driven could occur again.

Do you feel how infuriated I am with all this? Why waste this set up like this, Hori?!

[villainsandvictimsalliance]

A reminder that Spinner canonically compares himself to Dabi and feels inferior to the rest of the League of Villains.

Part of the reason he allowed AFO to manipulate him is because he wanted to be reliable, as in he wanted to be stronger to be of use to Tomura. So again, he's canonically kinda jealous not only of Dabi's quirk, but of him as a person.

[deadboyswalking]

One of the most heartwarming implications about MHA's ending: if Eri, sweet little Eri-chan, had grown all the way to adulthood (or even her late teens) under Overhaul's control, Deku and every other hero would've been totally fine with putting her in the ground and calling it a victory 💖

[bibibbon]

I have mentioned how Izu is single out in his own story in many ways but...can I say how bk is the root of all the problems the manga has? Yes, even the Tododrama.

"but bk didn't abused the Todos" True, it was Endy...but the blame still goes to BK bc in a story where HE can mistreated, abuse and try to kill the MC OF THE STORY and no one baits an eye ...why the tododrama would be different?

If Izu has to look up to his abuser and call him cute nicknames...why Endy wouldnt center himself as "mea culpa" and take the spotlight in the narrative of the Todorokis?

It's all a domino effect.

Hori constructed a narrative and even framed as BK's actions aren't that bad. People thought it was funny.

"lol typical BK" as he says smth cruel to Izu or you know, tries to kill him.

People start to ship him back the day...with Izu. People were saying "wait for his character development/redemption" and well...it became a question of what BK feels, not Izu.

Doesn't that feels similar ?

Who cares what Toya or Shoto feels? It's more important to know what Endy is feeling.

If the mc of this story can be abused and no one bait an eye(be in the story or in the fandom at large) why people are shocked the Tododrama is being like that?

Its absolutely consistent with how MHA is since day 1. The victim deserves nothing and the abuser has a pity me party.

Hi @mikeellee 👋

Well sure bakugo definitely has a huge influence but it's not bakugo himself that directly caused the todoroki family drama and neither would I label it as such.

I get the point that it's characters like bakugo that are the root cause for a lot of societies problems!! I also agree with this sentiment.

I think that there is also evidence for this since bakugo shares a lot of paralleling imagery or just parallels with horrible characters like Enji todoroki and All for one. I remember one of @sapphic-agent posts that talked about bakugo and his lack of a main villain was because he was his own villain. Bakugo is the prototype for one of the worst types of people that exist in MHA society and it's worse that his previous behaviour goes unpunished. This is also another parallel that he has with enji todoroki. I would like to say Iam surprised but Iam not.

I think it's interesting how horikoshi managed to simply normalise bakugo's abusive, aggressive and rash behaviour and even turn it into what some may call an enjoyable gag for the readers to see and go "classic bakugo" or some other type of excuse.

So yes if bakugo can do it other characters can do it that meaning enji and AFO who got away with a lot heck afo was somehow even humanised?!?!?!?!

I can never understand canon BKDK shippers like Iam sorry but what do they see in that. Izuku literally has no agency or autonomy here it completely sucks and its toxic as heck. Also it's very ooc considering that bakugo hates Izuku's guts and has only recently started to act civil towards him. Also bakugo never went through a proper redemption so I don't see the appeal. I think that a lot of shippers may ignore these factors which is where fanon and a much more healthier version of BKDK comes in but I still hate it tbh 🤷‍♀️.

Yes classic hori somehow managed to turn his story into one where the abusers are always praised and the victims are either always perfect little angles that forgive and forget everything or spiteful and vengeful with the urge to burn society down.

[teapetal44]

All For One should have stayed on the sidelines as a character after Kamino. His evolvement in everything after that significantly weakens the story. Building up Tomura as his protégé, framing him as the next symbol of evil, and then pulling the rug under everyone’s feet, is the worst writing decision Hori has ever made. In concept, All For One failing at passing the torch to Tomura is good, because it directly  parallels All Might and his mentorship to Izuku. Unlike All For One, Toshinori was aware the younger generation needed to take up the mantle. All For One is a selfish and controlling person, it makes perfect sense for him to be unable to give up his power to someone else. But in execution it falls apart the moment All For One continues to force himself upon the narrative, continues to serve as the big bad. All For One’s inability to pass the torch and Tomura as a main antagonist can co-exist without weakening the themes of the story.  

Like, imagine how cool it would have been if All for One was destroyed by Tomura after he tried taking control over his body and mind. Tomura realizes his master is holding him back from achieving his full potential and his goal, the thing he literally lives and fights for. Triumph over his master would be Tomura’s final step to becoming the new symbol of evil and his self-liberation. Then, he would truly be free of everything holding him back. AFO, the puppeteer, the man always one step ahead of everyone else, would be conquered by the very same person he molded – he planted the seed, but at last, what grows is out of his control. In a sense, he would be punished by the story for failing at passing the torch and Tomura would be cemented as the final antagonist, and his journey would feel satisfying.

All though, I see why Horikoshi didn’t write it like that – cause that would require giving Tomura actual autonomy as a character. Something he actively avoids doing every chance he gets. It’s easier to have a character who is crafted to be evil by one powerful bad man before he was even born, than to portray an abused child failed by a fundamentally corrupt society that values consumerism over actually helping those in need, who ended up in the hands of the powerful bad man because the child slipped through the cracks of said society. MHA conveys to the viewer that there are no bad systems, only bad people within the established systems.

Tomura couldn’t own his conception, nor his heroic goals, not even his abuse. Nothing ever happened to him because of society as a whole or because life is cruel and merciless. It happened because Anime-Satan said so.

[delawaredetroit]

Not being able to understand another person who isn't hurting you is not an excuse for making their life a living hell for a decade. Bakugou would have been well within his rights to avoid Izuku if he was unnerved by him or their values just couldn't align. And if he just pushed Izuku down in the sandbox and told Izuku he couldn't play with them anymore, Bakugou would still be a little brat but nobody reasonable would be calling him abusive.

But that isn't what happened. Even from Bakugou's own words, he actively beat Izuku down again and again. Because he one-sidedly decided Izuku was looking down on him without ever speaking about it, he terrorized an already marginalized person. This isn't about whether Bakugou should have liked or gotten along with Izuku. It's about Bakugou believing he had the right to violently suppress the people around him that didn't fit into his narrative.

Bakugou clearly had deeply rooted insecurities that needed addressed that weren't handled by the people around him because in their society, physical strength is extrapolated to strength in all instances. But that in no way excuses the harm he committed towards others.

[bicheetopuff]

Y’all are getting annoying with all of this hate. This chapter didn’t go the way you wanted it to so you start calling hori a terrible writer? You start saying it’s disgraceful? Are you for real?

Why’re we acting like the story is over? Was there a “the end” somewhere that I missed? Was there a conformation that Shigaraki was completely dead that I also missed? You guys are right that there are some things that didn’t make sense and that it felt a little rushed and how Nanas connection with Shigaraki was off screened but, we still have chances to see all of that.

The thing with Nana might come up with All Might and Gran Torino incase y’all forgot that he’s apart of that whole thing. There could a flashback for Tomura Shigaraki: Rising. Shigaraki could manifest overhaul and put himself back together.

Here’s the thing though, Deku was never motivated to save Shigaraki, he wanted to save the crying child inside of him. AFO was rewinding his age every time he died for like 30 fucking chapters, are you really convinced that he didn’t make sure Shigaraki, his vessel/escape goat, didn’t have the same quirk just incase? Wouldn’t it come full circle for Shigaraki to come out of this as young Tenko? Wouldn’t that even make MORE sense than Deku trying to save someone that’s already too far gone physically? Shigaraki was literally falling apart, wtf was Deku gonna do? Glue him back together? Stop punching him while he was still possessed and trying to kill him and others?

Why is this fandom always mad when Deku does anything? Some people are saying he didn’t have any emotional investment in Shigaraki and that he didn’t show emotion when he died but, we haven’t even gotten the chance to see his reaction yet. The last page he’s super far away and facing away from the camera, how tf do you know he’s not upset? How do you know he’s not looking at Tenko right now?

All of this to say, can y’all just be patient for once? Wait a few chapters before you start literally wishing death on Hori for writing something that didn’t please you in a shonen manga. At this point, some of you need to just drop the series if it’s gonna get under your skin this much. I’m really tired of defending this fandom and being associated with it when y’all are being this outrageous. Some of you need to start thinking and reflecting after you read rather than just go straight to your keyboard and start throwing metaphorical rocks into Horikoshis metaphorically online window.

[justatalkingface]

Let's talk about the Nomu and the Remnants

So, among all the other fuck fuck games Hori played with late-game MHA, I don't think anyone has really... picked up on just what implications he's made when it comes to Remnants.

You see, once upon a time, Remnants only existed because OFA let them, kept them, empowered them. Even when it wasn't really expanded on at the time, the fact that Izuku had them was a sign of his Heroic Mandate (TM) and Destiny(TM), it was something unique to him, something that even All Might didn't have. But... you know, now AFO is just filled with a screaming chorus of those he has damned or something.

Let's... let's ignore the general clusterfuck of AFO for this, and just... all the late game stuff. Let's just talk about one thing: the fact that he has Remnants, and the fact they've been trying to talk to (murder) him.

And first off, that's a big retcon, because even if the OFA Remnants didn't want to murder their users, I'm pretty damn sure they'd want to talk to them all the same, and yet somehow only Izuku noticed, even before the clusterfuck of the extra Quirks kicked in.

But even that's not the point, that's just an appetizer. Because the thing is? The Quirks AFO is holding aren't the only Quirks he's taken, far from it.

There are the Quirks he's given to various people throughout the years, subordinates, would be supporters and probably some random people he wanted to torture.

The Nomu he's made, experimented on for decades.

Hell, all the Quirks he and Dr. Diablo Ex Machina have made (somehow) throughout this time.

That's hundreds, maybe thousand, of Quirks. Millions potentially, if we're looking at the copies and trying to get a number out of the vague 'and then we invented a whole new science just to fuck other people over' bit. And according to this late game stuff? Every single one of them is host to the mental copy of the person they were stolen from (or cloned from, presumably). And outside of a few exceptions, (vanishingly few; while there were people in the past, and in rare occasions the present, who didn't want their Quirks... the magic dream copy in the Quirk would still have their Quirk. For them, the problem hasn't gone away at all! Maybe some of the reason they hated it is gone, but even at best they're still bearing that thing they've always hated... and that's not even getting into people who just... hated them, or thought they were wrong. Or were afraid of hurting someone... only to be given to someone who doesn't share those same concerns, or even the same level of restraint they had. Even though the actual person got what they wanted, there's a copy of them that is still in hell, and knows they're never going to escape it, because they are their own nightmare.) every single Quirk was stolen by force. Every single one of the remnants in these people are just... suffering, and for all intents and purposes will remain that way, until the person bearing them dies.

And all of that? All of that doesn't get into the Nomus. The largely brain dead living corpses made smashing together likely Quirks with the same energy of a child trying to force together Legos, even before whatever process happens to condition them into being loyal. What the hell does that do to a mind? Do they stay separate? Do they... blend together? Does the body/dominant mind/most powerful Quirk just get implanted with memories and desires of complete strangers?

Every single one of those exposed brain monstrosities is a walking, talking torture device filled with damned souls of some unknown number, and who even knows about how much is in the High Ends.

Hell, what about the copied Quirks? Do they retain the full knowledge of who they were? Or does each copy... lose something, each in generation away from the original? Do they realize that they're missing some fundamental portion of themselves, that they're not real?

I'm pretty damn sure that this, like so many things, is something that just happened because Hori didn't think it through, because this is horrifying on levels it's hard to comprehend. It's a level of human suffering on the level of you'd get from the Dark Eldar in WH40K, and on both Hori and AFO's parts, it's entirely accidental. And yet, I don't think there's one part of this that isn't canon compliant, that there's nothing to disprove the idea that, somewhere in Aoyoma, there's some poor sod that was shoved in there, that inside AFO there's a copy of Eri.

Just... just something I want people to think about, because I don't want to be the only one.

[dirt-apple-productions]

I guess Toga and Tenko were really better off with AFO. At least AFO didn’t kill them or encourage them to kill themselves.

[sapphic-agent]

Alright, so the leaks.

@ The AFO battle was just...??? What in the Hell??? That's literally all I have to say to it because the only way to get rid of AFO is to turn him into a fucking baby and have Bakugo fight said baby. It was the most ridiculous thing, that I just laughed at it. Because what the Hell????????? Minus that, I'm glad he's gone so we can FINALLY focus on Izuku VS Shigaraki.

Which, I have to ask, how in the HELL did Shigaraki tell Danger Sense?? Like, is it because AFO is dead now and Shigaraki can have, like- full access to the quirk(s) within OFA?? I just HOPE it's not a dumb thing like fucking jean heart and exploding blood over here. But I will say, it's nice to finally have some stakes again with Shigaraki being able to just destroy a city within just a week and him having Danger Sense, now. ....I just hope Izuku VS. Shigaraki is like the most epic fight we see while Izuku is weirdly side lined via the whole AFO VS Bakugo... thing.

The ONLY way to salvage MHA is to give us a kick ass Izuku vs Shigaraki fight. Maybe then I'll think about forgiving Horikoshi.

AFO turning into a baby is one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen in a manga. And not even the kind of bizarre that's, "Oh that's so cool and creative" the kind of bizarre that's, "Well that was fucking weird." Also pretty insensitive to have Bakugou of all people fight him in that form considering what's been happening in the world lately. There was just no reason for it.

(AFO in general was such a let down. When he was first introduced he was a calm and collected master manipulator. Later chapters changed that into him just being a child who never grew up throwing a temper tantrum. This was the guy that ruled Japan's underbelly for 200 years, killed almost every OFA user, and chronically injured ALL MIGHT. And you mean to tell me that this was underneath that? Just a pathetic child? Freaking Dad For One fics gave him more personality and seriousness than that)

I'm gonna assume Shigaraki has full access to AFO now. That would make the most sense, not that Hori's known for doing that

[diableasura]

Spinner and shigarakis relationships was just as rushed and forced as class 1a's but the fandom is not ready for that conversation

[mathewton-cl]

As An IzuOcha Shipper…

…them not ending up together isn’t the problem.

Horikoshi taking the “leave it up to interpretation” approach and then proceeding to COMPLETELY AVOID ADDRESSING their relationship status is the problem.

Horikoshi failing to tie up that one last loose end for Uraraka’s character arc (not closing off her feelings) is the problem.

Again, I ship IzuOcha. Still do, because I’m stubborn. Would I have liked for them to end up together, even if it was only a somewhat blatant implication that could be handwaved? Obviously. But you know what? Maybe I would be upset if the story went out of its way to explicitly de-confirm any chance of Midoriya and Uraraka being a romantic pairing, but I’d at least respect it and understand it a lot more if the story let Midoriya and Uraraka actually talk about this, or at the very least SHOWED US them talking about this. I’d understand if Uraraka completed her character arc by having a heart to heart with Midoriya and telling him that her feelings have changed, her priorities have changed, and Midoriya understands and they remain good friends. Let’s be real, romance isn’t Horikoshi’s strong suit, despite his many attempts to leave romantic implications throughout the series. I’d completely understand if he just had Midoriya and Uraraka talk and they didn’t end up together, because at least then it still provides both of their characters with closure.

But no, that’s too simple. Let’s just “leave it up to interpretation,” because it clearly wasn’t that important, right?

Well, as many people on the internet have already brought up, if it wasn’t so important, why did you spend so much time putting emphasis on it? Why did you have Uraraka, up until the FINAL WAR, have her crush on Midoriya be a crucial part of her character (it wasn’t her only character trait, mind you, but it was still important)? Why did the penultimate chapter have the class come to comfort Uraraka and tell her that they can talk to her… and then come the next chapter, Uraraka apparently hasn’t done anything regarding her supposed crush on Midoriya? For literal YEARS!?

…see, this isn’t even a shipping problem anymore. This is a character problem.

Horikoshi, for whatever reason, chose not to include a romance for the main character and his supposed love interest. And again, that’s fine, not every story needs to be a romance. Two problems with it here though (well, one problem and an observation):

1) Choosing to not at least address the romantic subplot with a “I think we’re better off as friends” encounter, thus actually concluding the subplot and providing a sense of closure, not only leaves the result feeling underwhelming and frustrating, but also actively damages Uraraka’s character arc. We can have her address the problem that caused people like Toga to exist, but heaven forbid she talks about romance with Midoriya.

2) Despite his supposed aversion to romance, Horikoshi still went out of his way to give Gentle and La Brava wedding rings… he’s willing to establish a side romantic pairing without bringing too much attention to it, but he can’t be bothered to do something similar for the arguable MAIN pairing? It’s the “Togata has special clothes so he doesn’t end up buck naked, but Hagakure’s still gotta go commando” debacle again…

I’ma go ahead and wrap this up ‘cause I don’t wanna keep y’all much longer, but like… being optimistic, this ending was… functional. I’ve got my problems with it, obviously, I don’t think it was BAD bad… but it certainly wasn’t good. It works. Barely. And it’s ‘cause of stuff like this.

Midoriya and Uraraka didn’t need to end up together, truly. All Horikoshi had to do was put the smallest amount of effort and give us something of substance, something with closure. Instead, we got what we got.

I get that he was exhausted and wanted the manga to be over… but that excuse only holds up for so long.

[nutzgunray-lvt]

Horikoshi when fans ask him where the continuity and already established plot points are:

[gece-misin-nesin]

oh so when YOU defend your boss being a horrible person and a child abuser by saying he was a good boss to you it's heroic and you're a 'loyal employee' but when i, dr ujiko,

[bibibbon]

Pretty minor nitpick compared to everyone else's great points about bnha's plot holes, but I'm just so confused on the inconsistency of All For One's blindness. Like did Horikoshi forget or is All For One lying about being blind?

If afo can't see, how does he know that All Might stopped smiling during their fight at Kamino or what All Might's true form looks like? Hell when All Might goes to Tartarus to interrogate afo, afo notices he is wearing his hero costume.

I know blindness is more complex than just can't see anything and there are different kinds of blindness, but afo doesn't have any eyes. His eyelids look like they melded into his face along with all the scar tissue

Also I think he called the Aoyamas using a smartphone??? Bruh, where is your Nokia brick 😭

Yeah anon AFO is low-key pretty inconsistent as a character.

The whole blindness thing made no sense to me because it heavily literally didnt have any eyeballs than how could he notice all might smiling or all might going back to his small might form?!?!

I remember reading a dfo fic that talked about it. The fic was "conversations with a cryptid" by AMournfulHowlInTheNight and it brought up a theory that AFO had a heat sensing quirk and actually some of his sight. Personally, (even though it isn't canon) it's a pretty good theory and explanation also something about AFO actually hiding his strengths makes him more intimidating or you could have it so that AFO is actually blind and is simply really observant (heightened other senses)

Personally I would love to see AFO with a Nokia and it low-key makes sense if he were to just make a little small unbreakable burner phone.