#2x25 tribunal

[cassiecasyl]

The way DS9 2x25 predicted the dangers of AI voice imitation/stealing. This episode is from 1994. THEY WARNED US

[asexualjedi]

First vacation in 5 years?!!! Picard didn’t let you guys have leave?!

[walkingstackofbooks]

DS9 2x25 Tribunal thoughts (I'm re-watching, so there may be future spoilers)

Aww, Miles is so worried about the station

"Would you PLEASE go on vacation." Kira's had it, I wonder how long he's been fussing around for? XD

"He's been driving me crazy all day." Sisko joining in XD

Aha, I love the little face poking up through the turbolift, it was obvious he was going to return once Sisko had said that but still, a classic joke XD

"PLEASE disembark the station." I just love this crew banter

Oooh, this random guy's a baddie, but I can't remember how

"You talked to me for half an hour!" "No, there must have been someone else in bed with us." This sounds like Miles is just making excuses, but honestly, my housemate also does this - he can have a whole conversation while sleeping without me realising he isn't awake!

Keiko just sitting there waiting for him to make it up to her XD

Silly laughter <3 Love it when these two are just cute.

"You're an engineer. Do something about it." XD

Gul Evek... Why do I know the name? (*googles* > Miles asked him for help with the vole infestation, he was the overseer of the Cardassian takeover of Dorvan V in Journey's End, AND he was the Cardassian on Volan III that Sisko and Dukat found arguing with the Maquis.)

Keiko's "MILES" is heartbreaking

"--remove your clothes--" this is so disturbing.

Oh, this is so awful to watch. They really went for it, huh.

"My name is Miles O'Brien." The way he says it til he's woozy, my heart, these Starflett-trained guys

Ugh, torture via teeth always makes me wince the most

"You were told he was not to be harmed." Interesting, why does she care?

"Damn it, don't lie to me! They're torturing him as we sit here." "It is standard procedure for the Cardassians to use torture in their interrogations. You are correct, Mrs O'Brien." Although this sounds like Odo being more blunt than is socially acceptable, Keiko clearly already knows what's up and him confirming it is caring about her and validating her worries

"You don't know how many times Miles spoke to me about this." This line actually shows so much about their relationship, we don't see Miles talking that vulnerably on screen, but he does off-screen with Keiko <3

"If that sounds like a threat, it is." Sisko is marvellous

"I AM an officer of the court." YES, Odo!

It's so terrifying, this helplessness of not being able to find out what's happening or how to stop it

Julian's so ready to fight for O'Brien <3 I love how he won't even entertain the idea Miles had something to do with the Maquis.

"No! Are you here to interrogate me, Constable?" Odo I know you're trying your best but this isn't what Miles needs right now!

"I'm no angel, but I try to live every day as the best human being I know how to be. I need my little girl to wake up in the morning and look up at me and see a man she can respect." oh Miles <3

"You flatter me, sir, you flatter me, but we want justice, not chaos in this court." I kind of love this little guy, like he's awful but he's just trying his best at his job he's very proud of and he's so close to retiring and he just wants the best for Cardassia like he's always been taught.

Odo trying so so hard. It's so satisfying when he DOES interrupt and get his point across, even if my soul shrivels up every time it is eventually dismissed.

Ooh, her teacher voice is coming out. "And you, sir, do not try the patience of the Cardassian people."

What is Julian doiiing?

Oh, he's just being a prop for the plot to be solved XD

It's taken me all episode to realise that yes, the Cardassians who are sitting there looking like children ARE children, because that's a very Cardassian move. And God, it's chilling

The end is here, all is (mostly) well, and Miles is STILL reluctant to holiday, unbelievable. (But not really)

Well that's sure an episode, isn't it 😅

[apolesen]

Miles and Keiko O’Brien being very much in love

1x16 If Wishes were Horses 2x11 Rivals 2x25 Tribunal 2x25 Tribunal 3x10 Fascination 4x17 Accession 5x03 Looking for Par’Mach in All the Wrong Places 5x05 The Assignment

(Source: Trekcore) 

[stopthatbluecat]

Tribunal 2x25

[chacusha]

DS9 Companion liveblogging (4/14)

Second half of season 2 (2x14-2x26):

Interesting notes here on 2x14 “Whispers,” how it has an extremely tight focus on O’Brien (has no scenes without him) because having a B plot or any scenes where people are talking when he’s not in the room would immediately give away the episode’s mystery. Also, apparently a scene was cut because they accidentally used the wrong runabout name in the dialogue.

On how 2x16 “Shadowplay” was always about not being able to tell the difference between reality and virtual reality but started off much darker before becoming a heart-warming episode:

(O’Brien must suffer.)

Interesting thoughts from Rene Auberjonois on the conundrum of why Odo can’t do faces:

Another Word of God thing that some of Dax’s more wild behavior is an act intended to throw people off-balance. Honestly, though, I think she slept with that alien. Like, yeah, they were “working out” all right!

Shimerman once again being a Ferengi booster (I love him so much):

Fun notes on getting the TOS Klingon actors together for 2x19 “Blood Oath” and trying to decide what makeup/look to use. I appreciate the three of them more now that I’ve watched TOS.

An interesting dialogue for a scene in 2x20 “The Maquis Part I” meant to guide the actor’s reactions but not meant to be spoken, which I like because (1) it’s another example of admirals being The Worst (a great Star Trek tradition), and (2) it features Sisko defending his choice of Odo as head of security on DS9, which Sisko makes reference to later (that Starfleet is not happy and he’s advocated for Odo behind the scenes) but it’s nice to see it featured in written dialogue.

On 2x22 "The Wire": "'The fans said they were disappointed because they did not learn anything about Garak,' says Behr. [...] Although fans would learn a bit more about Garak in subsequent seasons, they never would learn the complete truth. [...] [Says Wolfe,] "He wasn't a gul; he wasn't in the military. He was in the Obsidian Order, and his first name is Elim. Those things, I would say, are the truth.'"

(It makes me realize that Garak is a one-man Rashomon story. XD)

The original pitch had Kira be the unexpected drug addict rather than Garak but it was rejected for being too heavy. Interesting!

Things revealed in this episode: Julian Bashir's middle name (Subatoi); Cardassia Prime is the Cardassian homeworld; the Obsidian Order and Tain as its retired head.

Interesting notes here on 2x23 "Crossover": the Mirror Odo explosion was a physical effect (exploding wax doll) not CG, and Worf was planned for a crossover appearance here, even before he joined the show, but he was unavailable and his lines mainly went to Mirror Garak. I thought it was kind of odd they specifically mentioned/established a Cardassian/Klingon alliance in this episode, but then no major Klingon characters appear...

Some interesting notes on how 2x25 "Tribunal" is the first episode set on Cardassia and features more O'Brien Must Suffer that builds on (1) a conversation between Sisko and Dukat about Cardassian justice in 2x21 "The Maquis Part II" and (2) Picard's experience with Cardassian interrogation in TNG 6x11 "Chain of Command Part II". I'm not a fan of this episode but the visual style and set are pretty memorable.

2x26 "The Jem'Hadar": Notes on the role of Vorta and Jem'Hadar within the Dominion, and the implication that Tosk was a Dominion creation:

On why Eris is the only telekinetic Vorta seen in DS9: "Eris's apparent telekinetic powers would never be employed by another Vorta. Considering that the typically obsequious species weren't really known for their truthful nature, it's likely that Eris had faked those powers here. In any event, as the writers put more thought into the function of the Vorta, telekinesis was set aside as a misstep that Behr and the others hoped viewers would forget."

This is one of my favorite episodes because Sisko and Quark are just a great pairing as reluctant in-laws camping buddies.

[dilfgarak]

Karen Westerfield (Makeup Artist) applying Fritz Weaver(Kovat)’s makeup for “Tribunal” (2x25)

[multimetaverse]

We've been fed so much lately!! What do you think of Luke's interview with Lisa and Terri's with pastemagazine? And are you happy Josh told us what he meant by the endgame changing?

Indeed we have anon. I loved Luke’s interview with Shine on Media, Lisa has been a fan of the show from the start and her questions are always good ones. I’m very glad we got confirmation that TJ is gay and that’s canon so there should be no more TJ sexuality discourse. Also nice to know that Luke knew TJ was gay from before the muffin scene and that he and Josh were trying to play things as gay as possible the entire time. We really lucked out getting Josh and Luke to play the first two openly gay characters on Disney Channel; that they were so happy and supportive of these roles and always did their best to come through for the audience. And nice to know that they both wanted the Tyrus story line to go faster, as did we all. 

Another anon asked me why Terri wouldn’t have done a chemistry test with Josh and Luke when they were casting TJ which is a good question. Certainly the casting directors would have had that in mind since they cast someone Josh’s age and they obviously didn’t cast Luke for his basketball skills or skills at playing a villain. They did luck out that Josh and Luke ended up being such close friends and having such great on screen chemistry. I don’t think it’s a surprise that Luke’s acting got much better after 2x05 as TJ had an actual purpose and motivation. Terri really should have told him from the start but she would have had to if not by 2x08 then 2x11 for sure, as there’s no way to do the swingset scene if the actors and director and editors don’t all know that it’s a romantic scene. 

 It’s wild that Terri never took steps to make sure either Luke or his family weren’t homophobic or at least unwilling to play a gay character before bringing him on. That would have been a dark timeline, TJ either being written out early on and maybe some new character brought in to take his place or TJ still be used for the dyscalculia story line but then being dropped after S2 and likely no one replacing him as Cyrus’ love interest in S3 given how much more censored the gay story line was in S3.

I’m glad Josh came clean. That they were unsure that Tyrus would ever canon was my best guess and I’m working on another ask about it and laying out how the Tyrus story line in S3 has no real direction and with the exception of the gun plot is just fluffy or angsty filler. It’s sad to know that Tyrus came so close to never canoning and I can’t imagine how depressing it must have been for Josh and Luke to film the entire season not knowing if the Tyrus story line would ever have any pay off. I’m glad though that Terri was at least upfront with them that she wasn’t sure if she’d get canon Tyrus approved in the finale. A lot of Josh’s comments and actions come off much sadder now, like when he was so happy that Asher said Tyrus was real in their October press tour or when he commented on tumblr that the press tour was the first time Disney had let him speak openly about Tyrus. He must have been desperately seeking validation and any kind of hints he could that Disney would actually allow canon Tyrus. 

That being said, the cast should never have been allowed to talk about Tyrus so openly and so often when they had no guarantee it would ever happen. All those cast interviews they did back in October almost ended up being massive queerbait. I don’t blame the cast as they’re all teens but the adults in their lives should have stepped in and reined things in. 

Terri’s paste magazine interview comes off as extremely disingenuous especially in regards to the Tyrus kiss. I’m surprised so many people bought her spin but if she couldn’t even get permission for canon Tyrus until the very end of production which was well after the show had been cancelled then how on earth was she ever going to get a kiss or anything else approved? I could claim that I choose not to live in a mansion because it doesn’t fit my lifestyle but it’s not a real choice because I could never afford to buy a mansion just like Terri would never have been able to get a kiss approved or Cyrus saying aloud that he had a crush on TJ or Tyrus slow dancing or Cyrus founding a GSA club at school, or anything else she wants to pretend she could have done if only there had been one more season. And her ‘’queerbaiting and Disney censorship’’ instagram post back in November was wildly inappropriate when the gay story line was being obviously censored and when the entire Tyrus story line almost ended up being nothing more than queerbait. And for her to attempt an internalized homophobia story line in what she knew were the final eps of the series with a character she had no idea if she could ever confirm is gay is incredibly stupid. 

Still I do feel sorry for Terri as I truly don’t think she knew when she brought TJ in that it would take this long to get so little pay off. The Tyrus story line began in the 20th ep of the series and didn’t canon until the 57th aired ep, two-thirds of the entire series went by before their feelings were explicitly confirmed. The look back was a huge mistake and built up expectations too high even with it being edited but logically if Disney approved TJ looking back at Cyrus in 2x25 it would have been a positive sign that they were open to exploring Tyrus at the time as the unedited look back would have let the audience know TJ was gay which would have given Terri reason to hope she could get them together before 3x20. I think it’s interesting that Josh compared canon Tyrus in S3 to Cyrus coming out in what was originally 1x13 when he’s talked before about how Cyrus was always slated to come out to Andi in 2x13. It really does suggest that Disney more or less let Terri write what she wanted for Cyrus’ arc in S2 which also fits with the Tyrus story line flowing very well before cracking down hard in S3.

Personally, I think the most interesting thing we learned from Terri’s interview is that they learned they would be cancelled when they were going to write 3x10. Looking back, 3x10 does seem like a rough dividing line for a lot of stories. Jonah’s panic attacks are addressed in 3x11 then dropped, Jamber is resurrected in 3x12 along with the wish and Amber suddenly becomes much more prominent in the final half of the season, Walker and Wuffy are disposed of, Marty is brought back and Muffy quickly set up to be endgame. Now that we know that Terri didn’t want endgame Jandi and didn’t know if she would ever get endgame Tyrus we can see why it was so important for the show to bring back Marty so Buffy could get her originally planned endgame. Interestingly, Andi’s art isn’t brought up again until 3x16 which is also when the S1 party was brought back up again which suggests that they didn’t settle on the finale party until then. 

There’s one other big moment that happens right after 3x10 which is Cyrus using the word gay and coming out to Jonah in 3x11. I wrote this back in February after the Salt Lake Tribune spoiled that Cyrus would come out to Jonah:

‘’It’s nice that now all of Cyrus’ closest friends know about his sexuality but this does also read as a potential wrap up of Cyrus’ sexuality arc; Cyrus has come out to Buffy, Andi, and Jonah and is proud and confident in his identity and to label himself as gay, quite a far cry from the scared sad Cyrus we saw when he came out to Buffy. With Jonah now in on his secret there’s no more mystery left among his friend group and no need to talk about it again if that’s the path Disney chooses. I do think Terri got some stuff approved in the finale but this ep could very easily provide enough rep that Disney feels fine with having a quiet Korrasami style endgame instead. ‘’

It turns out that my sense of foreboding was correct as 3x11 was written as a potential series finale for the gay story line as they had no clue if Cyrus would ever be able to get together with TJ and indeed Cyrus never did discuss his sexuality ever again. 

I’m glad we have a lot of the missing pieces filled in now. I’m also glad I wasn’t a cast or crew member as it seems like S3 would have been an anxious nerve wracking experience, waiting to see if the story line that had been planned from the beginning of S2 would have any pay off. I’m eternally grateful to Terri and Josh and Luke for what they managed to do and the history they made. And thank god Gary Marsh, for whatever reason, decided at the last minute to let those final 40 seconds of the bench scene to make it to air.

[dailyjadziadax]

2x25 - Tribunal

[asexualjedi]

Keiko: damn I always knew his racism would bite him in the ass in the end

[asexualjedi]

Miles said: I can’t take 5 armed Cardassian soldiers with my bare hands

[asexualjedi]

O’Brien is like: like we are sure the station fall out of the sky right bc that’s why I haven’t had a day off in 2 years so I want to be super sure. I don’t want your deaths on my hand

[dailyjadziadax]

2x25 - Tribunal