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#15x20 who
insanesonofabitch · 10 months
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Jensen saying Dean’s biggest regret is that he couldn’t save Cas is already insane, right? But it makes sense, it makes sense to us because we believe that Cas wasn’t saved. We believe that Cas wasn’t saved. We believe that Cas wasn’t saved.
But Bobby said he already was, so why is it still Dean’s biggest regret?
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lovealwayssay · 1 month
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If my best friend of 12 years who I’ve been in love with for who knows how long told me that he thought he could never have me but he was so happy just loving me from afar and telling me how loved I was that it didn’t matter that he couldn’t have me, and then the fact that he told me he loved me saved my life but killed him, I would simply kill myself too because how do you come back from that.
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annmariethrush · 7 months
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Season 10: dean wants to be alive. He wants to retire. He wants to go hang out on a beach with his loved ones. Sam wants to keep hunting. He doesn’t want to “go back” to his “normal life” with a wife and kid and no hunting.
Finale: you’ll never fucking guess what happens
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sunforgrace · 1 year
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no but the thing is the thing is orpheus turns and. you’re early. i missed you. he sacrifices his life to save his love and he still dies at 41
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gayeddie-saved-me · 9 months
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my family reacts to The Scene
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ananke-xiii · 7 months
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all I'm saying is that sometimes a girl just wants Dean Winchester to be happy and I don't get why CW has trouble accepting that.
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This might be a hot take but I've gotta get this off my chest:
I have seen so many times in the past two years the point being made by a particular section of the fandom that Sam was the hero of SPN, the "Luke Skywalker" of the series as Kripke himself stated, and that the finale ending made sense for not only Sam getting to live but also for Dean's ending. And in the very same breath, it's mentioned that the show was always about the brothers, no one else, that's what Kripke always wanted, etc., but this argument is always made from a very pro-Sam slanted/skewed anti-ship (and sometimes anti-Dean) point of view without taking into consideration of just how much the story of SPN evolved even before Kripke left the show.
Like say what you will about Sam being the hero of the story, and I'm not going to disagree with you about that being Kripke's original intention because you're right. Sam was the main protagonist; that's clear from the outset of the series. The whole first season is everything being told from Sam's POV. It's evident in every single episode in how each case has resolution thanks to Sam. He is made to be the hero. The whole arc of season 1 is about Sam being dragged back into this world due to his desire for revenge for what happened to Jessica which turns into something more aka Sam is naturally a hunter and he wants to help people/help his family->Dean. It's even Sam in the season finale that chooses a different way compared to John's quest for revenge by choosing Dean/his family over his revenge.
So, yes, you're right when you say in the beginning of the series that Sam was the hero/main protagonist. Absolutely. But what is not being mentioned/realized is that somewhere along the way, during Kripke's era, Dean's own story within the series became just as integral to the main story like Sam's as did their relationship as brothers. Kripke developed the story to include both. They both become essential to the main overhead arc of the entire show. The whole reason John and Mary even got together (through Heaven's intervention as per SPN canon) was to bring about both Sam and Dean's existence. Dean becomes the complement to Sam's role. We find out that Sam is the chosen vessel for Lucifer, and then we find out Dean is the chosen vessel for Michael, which leads to the showdown between Heaven and Hell essentially through the two. Both have a decision to make; both are tapped on the shoulders by both sides (i.e. Cas/Ruby); both are essential to the main plot while having their own separate arcs/journeys. Dean is no longer a side character or even the "Han Solo". His story is developed and we not only see his own hero's journey that he has to go on (when physically separate from Sam for example; going into the future though this is still intertwined with Sam's journey itself; going back in time, etc.) but his own desires, thought processes, relationships (outside of Sam), are also brought into the forefront for his story. Can this happen with side characters? Sure. But that's not what happens here because Kripke not only develops/beefs up Dean's story but also interweaves it with Sam's very carefully, to the point that the show doesn't work without both characters. Hence, Sam is no longer the sole main protagonist.
Which is why, for example, Dean is the one to kill the YED even though Sam had been determined to make YED pay for what happened to Jessica. And Kripke masterfully balances the main plot between the two as the show develops, so much so that we get payoff for Sam's journey (which leads up to Swan Song but I'll get to that in a moment), by fulfilling big plot points such as his killing Lillith and setting Lucifer free. He even still gets the hero's end by choosing to sacrifice himself to save Dean and the world in 5x22. Kripke beautifully takes Sam's original journey and tweaks it in such a way that while Sam had his dad's training and a similar quest for vengeance, he made a different decision and he did that while having much more on his shoulders (literally the weight of the world) than John ever did. And we still get payoff for what was initially set up way back in season 1. We get a close out to the Jessica story line, to Sam's powers story line, all of it, before Kripke dipped out.
And in the same fashion, we also got a closeout to Dean's story line. If he would ever get out of hunting, would he allow Sam to go into that dark night alone, would he be the same as John -- all of it.
So the ending to 5x22 absolutely makes sense. And we get: Dean surviving and going to live a "normal" life & Sam making the sacrifice (as the hero the series started out with) while also somehow surviving & making his way back to his brother. That's Kripke's ending. Now to be fair, Sam making his way back to Dean more likely had to do with them setting up the next season, but ultimately he wasn't dead after throwing himself and Michael into the pit.
Then in the later seasons, which some fans like to exclude or dismiss (but it's still part of Sam and Dean's official story), their stories were still integral to the main story but they had also evolved to include other characters (such as Cas, Jody, Donna, etc) and they had developed over the next ten years. So when looking at the series as a whole, Dean and Sam's endings in the series finale do not make sense. Kripke already got his ending in 5x22 and the show moved past that, and quickly set out to dismantle it in 6x01. This theme continued and the idea of free will became the center stage even more than it had in the first five seasons. By the time the last season rolled around, Dean and Sam had different desires, their stories had not only been completely intertwined to make both of them the main protagonists but both the heroes, and how their ends/hunting boots were hung up in the end would both matter.
So if you watched all of the seasons, 15x20 doesn't make sense. Because Dean and Sam wanted very different things by that point, they had both built relationships with other characters (Cas and Jack were the biggest ones but those two were not the only ones), and their story had effectively changed.
And if you didn't watch any of the later seasons (or you dismiss it), 15x20 still doesn't make sense because this wasn't the ending Kripke had for the seasons 1-5 Sam and Dean. If anything, it felt like it could have been 1x02 instead of the Wendigo episode, ending Dean and Sam's story in two short episodes with nothing in between.
That does not make sense.
Imagine we were discussing the show Buffy the Vampire Slayer. We all know how that ended (I'm talking TV only, not the comics). Buffy saved the world, she survived (finally!), and she was free from Sunnydale. Now imagine she had been killed off. Not only would it feel redundant but it wouldn't feel like a true ending for the story told over the past 7 seasons. What would have been the point of her being resurrected in season 6 then? What would have been the point of her relationship with Spike, Dawn, and the others? Could Joss Whedon have made it into another hero's sacrifice (instead of Spike doing the heroic/redeeming sacrifice), that she got Dawn, Willow, Xander, and the other Slayers ready to defend the world that she would die saving? Sure. But again, when you compare that ending to her story, it doesn't really make sense. There is no payoff, for the viewers or for the character of Buffy. She had earned that ending, the freedom from the Hellmouth and from the burden of being alone as the only Slayer (aka Chosen One). Which is why we get that great shot in the end:
Willow: "Yeah, the First is scrunched so...what do you think we should do, Buffy?"
Faith: "Yeah, you're not the one and only Chosen anymore. Just got to live like a person. How's that feel?"
Dawn: "Yeah, Buffy, what are we going to do now?"
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The hero, who had already made the hero's sacrifice more than once, finally earned the ending that she wanted: freedom and the ability to choose to live her life for herself. The burden of being The Slayer had been removed and spread out to others (effectively building a network, hold that thought for a minute), she was no longer alone, she had defeated the Big Bad (which was effectively the Hellmouth since it kept creating/calling to these other Big Bads she faced over the years as well as the monsters she started out fighting), she might have more to face in the future, but it's up to her now what she wants to do. She is given the choice aka free will and that's what she earned after everything she had gone through during the duration of the show.
That's an ending.
This isn't:
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Death wasn't supposed to be their ending. While some might be able to turn to you and say 'but they end up in Heaven together, they're at peace', that doesn't make it a payoff ending, for the viewers (early seasons only or all seasons) or for the characters of Sam and Dean. That's not effective storytelling. Neither ending was heroic or earned.
Dean dying, while again wouldn't make sense given the story, could have been painted as heroic if it happened during the battle with Chuck for example. Their final battle with the ultimate Big Bad. Even though they both died heroically quite a few times before this, it could have been done and while ultimately disappointing, it could have been the hero's end for Dean (just like Sam's end in 5x22 was the hero's end for him). This death wasn't heroic; instead it was from vampire stunt guy #4 who apparently juiced before that scene getting an upper hand on the hero and impaling him on a piece of sharp rebar. During a milk run hunt. Now imagine if that were Sam. Ask these people who think that by the end of the series that Sam was the only hero, ask them if that happened to Sam instead, would they still be praising the finale? Or imagine that was Buffy. That she survived like she does, the Hellmouth in Sunnydale was finally gone, only to be killed by a random forgettable vampire who she had faced off with in the first season and got away, only to suddenly return and take the hero out, thus negating the payoff/earned ending she and the viewers got. Doesn't make sense, right?
Now imagine if say Dawn was killed off in a similar way (though tbf Dawn's role was not the same as Dean's in the story) or during the battle, and we see Buffy living her life through the years, getting out of slaying, having a family which consists of a daughter she names Dawn, wearing her own Party City wig and looking at a picture of Dawn all teary-eyed, dying in her sleep as an old lady, and then reuniting with her in Heaven. It doesn't work. Not only because Dawn had a very different role in the show when it came to the main story but also because it DOESN'T WORK. What kind of hero's end is that? What payoff is that? Is it great that Sam gets to choose to get out of hunting and have a family? Sure. But that's not where his story was headed, in later seasons, or even during Kripke's era.
Going back to the network thing I mentioned with Buffy, Sam had done that. Not only were there strong hints of leader!Sam near the end of the series, but he had effectively built a network of hunters for a time until Alt!Michael killed them all. But he and Dean still had a network going through Jody, Donna, Claire, even Jack until he turned God!Jack. Wayward Sisters might not have taken off when it first aired but the point was made: a hunter network still existed. And these characters, this network, even though not shown in the finale, still survived no matter what happened with Sam and Dean in the end. Why is this important? Because not only does it extend the hunting universe, but it also removes the burden from the heroes' shoulders. So they could have gotten out of hunting if they wanted to, just like Buffy could have laid down her axe (or stake). The heroes had earned it.
So for Dean to die on a random hunt and for those few to say that it was being foreshadowed this whole time with Dean's quotes (from before season 15 btw) and a proper ending to his story...they really don't know what show they were watching or how storytelling works in general. Because when they say that, they negate Dean's whole arc of season 15 (while also negating his whole series arc). Dean was angry in the beginning of the season because he thought not only had his free will been taken from him, but also because he thought he hadn't had any free will this whole time. There's a reason why he says what he says to Cas in 15x02. There's a reason why he was so gung ho on letting Jack sacrifice himself, and only once once Sam and Chuck say what they say in 15x17 does Dean make a different choice: his family (and the world) vs his own desire (his idea of free will, not fully realizing that he's actually utilizing it by making that choice). It's only when he chooses not to kill Chuck in 15x19 that he is completely self-aware and that he is using his free will to make a choice. A choice that affects how the Big Bad is ended/defeated. "That's not who I am."
He was given the hero's choice and he made it. And his decision was the right one that had payoff from not only the events in 15x17 and 15x18 but for his overall story. That's why what Cas says to him in 15x18 about who he is as a character was so important. It set Dean up to not only have self-realization but to also act upon it. Think about how many times over the years Sam and other characters have told Dean this about himself but he never really believed it. Why? Because he hadn't reached that part of his journey yet. Because he hadn't reached the end of it yet. So it makes perfect sense how 15x17, 15x18, and 15x19 play out. This is the appropriate ending battle for not only Dean but Sam as well:
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This was the hero's sacrifice they made. They could have been killed from Chuck beating on them as he did. He could have chosen to snap his fingers at any point. They made the sacrifice in order to get Jack the time and energy he needed to power up to overpower Chuck. And they never stayed down no matter the pain, no matter the potential of their deaths at Chuck's hand. They refused to give it up. This is why Sam helps Dean back up and why they're laughing/smiling. Because they know that no matter what happens to them, Jack/the world is going to win. "Why are you smiling?" "Because...you lose." And their sacrifice not only hands victory over to the new generation aka Jack but also instates the new God who replaces Chuck aka The Big Bad of the entire series. EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS SCREAMS HERO.
So it's not only payoff for Jack's story (as well as Chuck's) but also for Sam and Dean's. And both brothers were the heroes. Which is why Sam tells Chuck that he loses and Dean tells him that they won. Why both of them tell Chuck about their plan that they formed together (and Jack doesn't say a word). Which is why Chuck says he's going to die at both of their hands, both Sam and Dean look at each other, and then Dean makes the choice not to kill Chuck. "See, that's not who I am. That's not who we are." Because they both were the heroes and main protagonists of the series. Something that Kripe had set up long before 5x22.
"What kind of an ending is this?" One the heroes had earned. Chuck as the Big Bad wanted violence and death, an ending he would be entertained by. And even for an ending he hadn't imagined for himself (where he loses), he still expected a grisly death at the hands of the heroes. Had either Winchester done that, then Chuck would have gotten what he wanted and it wouldn't be the heroes' end that they had earned.
This was the ending that Sam and Dean earned:
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The choice to continue on if they wanted or to get out of hunting for good. To go see Jody, Donna, and the girls, or go get Cas out of The Empty, or go on milk run hunts for a while, or even to go to a freaking baseball game (screw you, John!); the point is it was their choice. That's what they had earned by the end of the series.
The ending that Chuck earned was not only the worst he could imagine but it was punishment for everything he had done. Both brothers say as much:
Sam: "I think it's the ending where you're just like us. And like all the other humans you forgot about."
Dean: "It's the ending where you grow old, you get sick, and you just die."
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Sam: "And no one cares. And no one remembers you. You're just forgotten."
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This was not the heroes' ending or the ending both characters had earned/deserved:
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This was:
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For the ones who insist that Dean's sacrifice was the right ending for his story and that he got a new Heaven as a reward are incorrect. Heaven wasn't what Dean wanted, not before he got what he earned.
For the one who insist that Sam's ending was right for his story and that he got to have a family and choose to get out of hunting as a reward are incorrect. Sam wanted Dean to be a part of that life (however it looked) and he had no desire to get out of hunting by the time the series came to an end.
15x20 is not the right ending for either Winchester.
And for those who say that Dean hadn't become one of the heroes in the series or that the finale was right because Sam was the sole main protagonist by the end (or even Kripke's ending in 5x22) clearly weren't paying attention. Not only did Sam not get the heroes' end or the end he wanted and earned, but neither did Dean who had been developed into the other main protagonist of the series, by the series creator himself before he left the show.
Bonus:
15x20 was not their real finale and here's how you know:
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Next shot (after cutting to black):
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Nothing after it.
SPN:
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Next shot (after fading to black):
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And then:
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(while still in costume, the two leads thanking the fans and then the crew/bridge drone shot complete with show music)
Compare this to how 15x19 ended as well. We get the montage, the drive off shot, and then the scene from 1x01 of Sam shutting the trunk of the Impala as Dean watches. Then cuts to black.
That's their finale.
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sasanka-27 · 1 year
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chrispineofficial · 10 months
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this website is unbearable today ✌️😎
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dimplecki · 7 months
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casdeans-pie · 10 months
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Imagine your entire life you've fought for the concept of free will, saved lives, saved the world, defied fate itself! and then you die in a tragically dull dull dull way and you haven't even been able to enjoy the freedom and peace that you suffered and suffered and suffered to achieve
You are not allowed joy or love or finding out what comes next
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jensensitive · 10 months
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So what did show creator Eric Kripke think of the ending? First, let's remember where Kripke's story ended. "In my last episode, 'Swan Song,' I probably, in hindsight foolishly, spent maybe like 80 percent of how I wanted that show to end. I didn't know it was going to go 15 years. I probably wouldn't have done that again had I had another chance but I thought maybe there was another year or two! Outside of a few little scenes and a few more moments, that was the meat of where I thought this show should end, which is Sam versus Dean and then ultimately good versus evil but brotherhood wins and sacrifices are made." When the show didn't end in another year or two, Kripke says, "From that point forward, it's inevitable that over many years, the show is going to spend every idea I had in terms of where it could go or end. By the time they reach this ending, it's not like I had some preconceived notion of how it should end. I was completely open-minded to what the gang was cooking up." So how did he feel about the final pitch? "I had a long talk with Jensen [Ackles] about it and I had a long talk with [co-showrunners] Andrew [Dabb] and Bob [Singer] about it and I think it's the best possible ending for the show. It was interesting, they pitched it to me and I went off to think about it for a couple days, and admittedly, me being me, I spent some time thinking, 'Okay, is there any other ending I would pitch back that I think is better?' And I spent a couple days trying to chase down a couple avenues and couldn't come up with anything better. So I went back and I was like, 'Guys I think it's the right one.' There's some substance to it but there's something emotional, I think there's a positive energy around it." "I will say this," continues Kripke. "There's only one scene that I haven't done that I would've done for the end of the show and I'm certainly not going to give it away, maybe one day I will. But I can assure the fans that my ending was so much darker than the ending they're going with, so anyone who's like, 'Kripke should've ended it,' I'm like, 'You would've hated my ending!' Because it was a horror movie and it was going to have a horror movie ending, so I can promise you the ending [they went with] you'll love much more than if you had let me end the show." (Kripke, EW, nov 19 2020)
anyway.......
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15.20 Carry On
Script:
If you want to read it offline, this is a useful tool.
Disclaimer: I (@lets-steal-an-archive) was, at the time it was listed on eBay, wary of the 15.19 and 15.20 listings and I still am uncomfortable including this script in the collection because I still suspect it is a reproduction made by someone who perhaps had access to watermarked originals that they retyped and then listed them on eBay as originals where they closed at around $2,000 each. They then offered pdfs for sale before the auction winners received the dead tree scripts they paid a fortune for (more than @spnscripthunt paid for any single script - $2,000 is more what people have paid, e.g. Shatner's 10.23, for scripts auctioned for charity). The winner of 15.20 reported the seller and received a full refund (and I'm glad they did, the whole thing was so sketchy). We have a 15.19 we know is legit and are holding out hope someone with a legit 15.20 will share a scan 🙏.
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annmariethrush · 5 months
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Dean dies SEVEN AND A HALF MINUTES AFTER HE GETS IMPALED. The average ambulance response time in the US is between 7 and 9 minutes, meaning that if they had called an ambulance as soon as they realized and done literally anything to try to save him, he more than likely would have lived with no supernatural involvement
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incarnateirony · 2 years
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What are you, a magician?
A restoration of the Lateralus Project is in progress.
Apropros of everything, some of it was omitted by youtube and littered to backup drives across the web, so uh, be patient, but we're here again, just like 15x20, but not just a spiral. No. swing on the spiral of our divinity while still being human. Spiral out, keep going.
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So I guess this will end up being the anchor post.
BUT HERE IS THE TITULAR SONG: LATERALUS: SWING ON THE SPIRAL.
Just like in the journal. But we're writing a new story.
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Full menu of rebuild pending.
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thebiggestmenace · 8 months
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I can't give you a witty caption
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if I don't press play, the show doesn't end, right? right?
wait, do we not get Carry On, My Wayward Son for the recap?
I guess not, that's a bummer :/
they kept Miracle!!!
Sam, I love you
"Singer and Kripke"? real original, guys /lh
their last case is one John did?
and with someone they saved??
of course Dean's on the rebar
this isn't how he dies, right? it can't be
for fuck's sake
him bringing it back to day 1? and telling Sam to always keep fighting?? I am so sad
he doesn't have anyone anymore :((
wait, are you leaving the bunker?
he's with Bobby :((((
at least he's not stuck in a memory, I was worried he would be
Cas isn't in the Empty?
it's the old license plate!!!!
oh, we get Carry On through Sam's life :(((
who did he marry???
old Sam is so goofy
Sam's words being echoed by Dean Jr? ugh, so fitting
oh, we get a message?
well, we did it, chat. I don't entirely know what I'm meant to do now. how am I supposed to just, continue after that? I am at a loss for words
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