#12 year old Kid will put you to Shame

[loveinhawkins]

Steve doesn’t notice the answering machine for several weeks.

His time is split between the hospital and donating food and clothes; and when he’s not doing that, he’s helping put up missing posters for people’s loved ones.

It’s only when both Max and Eddie are discharged that he has a moment to even catch his breath—when, half-dozing on his feet, waiting for a microwave ready meal to heat up, he notices the blinking red light in the hallway.

He feels like he’s still in a dream when he presses ‘play’, hears his mother’s voice. There’s people talking in the background, the echoing, constant chatter of a hotel lobby. She’s laughing at something someone must have said before the answering machine kicked in.

She sounds… happy.

“Steve? Steve?” The rustle of the receiver getting briefly pressed to her blouse, a muffled, “Just a minute, hon, he might still pick up.” Then, clearer: “No, you must be out. All right, Steve, it was just to let you know that we’ll be home a little sooner than we—yes, I’m telling him, what do you think I’m doing?”

Steve’s thoroughly grateful that he’s listening to a message, and no response is required—can only stand there, jaw slack, at just how light his mother’s voice is.

“A couple of work things fell through,” she continues with a breeziness that probably means several major ‘things’ went disastrously wrong, work related or otherwise. But it doesn’t sound like she cares all that much; if anything, she sounds excited.

“So I thought we could—well, I don’t know how late we’ll be, but if you’re not too hungry, we could just order some pizza, lazy dinner? Plain cheese for you, right?” The distant ring of a bell on a counter. “Steve, darling, I know we haven’t been—” She cuts herself off with a sigh that’s gone too quickly for Steve to parse.

He hasn’t ordered a plain cheese pizza since he was 12 years old. But she’s trying, he thinks. She’s trying.

“Oh, we’re just checking out. What? No, I thought you had that bag. Oh, well, just—sorry, Steve, see you tonight. Love y—”

The message ends.

In a daze, Steve replays it once, twice—it’s on the third re-listen that he hears the mechanical voice intone what date the message was left.

See you tonight.

He inhales sharply just as the microwave beeps, and then he’s out the door, leaving the food to congeal.

-

He knows the route they would have taken. Plays it backwards in his head as he drives. Can see them in his mind’s eye taking the exit that leads into Hawkins—his mom berating his dad for not using his turn signal.

He finds the road. Stops. Gets out and presses his hand to the tarmac. He can feel it under his palm, like a scar.

The gates spread, at the end.

There’s no proof, nothing he can point to and say there, that’s what happened to them. Not a trace.

But he knows.

He knows.

-

“Okay, what’s up?” Eddie asks him three days later.

It’s almost funny, how little things have changed. Steve keeps waiting for a knock at the door, a just kidding! There’s no harried phone calls from their work, so they must have taken extended leave or—he doesn’t know.

He’s never going to know.

“Nothing,” Steve shrugs. “Just thinking if the kids want popcorn now or later.”

Eddie’s suspicion melts away with a snort; it’s too easy. “Stupid question—the answer is always now.”

“Yeah, yeah. Second cupboard on your left, Munson, knock yourself out.”

“What am I, the maid?” But Eddie’s already reaching for the popcorn, opening the microwave door with a clunk, and then there’s an abrupt silence.

Steve realises why a second too late. “Shit, I—sorry, lemme just—”

He picks up the plastic tray full of mouldy pasta and throws it in the trash—feels a prickle of shame as he does so.

It’s stupid that this is the thing that makes his breathing catch. So fucking—senseless.

“Steve,” Eddie says haltingly, like he somehow knows this isn’t just about being absent-minded.

“Don’t,” Steve says.

He knows that’s practically a signed confession already. But Eddie nods and even cleans the damn microwave without a word of complaint. Because the popcorn still needs to be done, and the kids are waiting, and they’re pretending, Steve thinks.

They’re all just pretending.

-

He loses himself in washing up, makes the water run hot and doesn’t wear gloves, lets his skin scald. They’d all ordered pizza, and Steve had hidden every slice he’d taken, torn them all up and stuffed them into a napkin.

He stops when he comes to a large plate with a floral trim.

Would she have picked this one? he wonders. The pizza would’ve looked pretty, served up on that.

And then, as quickly as that thought came, another takes its place. How dare she? How dare she think that a fucking lazy dinner would fix everything? Did she think he’d just forgive her, forgive them both, just like that?

But she never got the chance. He’ll never get the chance to—

A sharp, stabbing pain. Steve turns off the faucet automatically, sees that the plate has smashed in the sink. A shard of china in his palm.

Eddie’s voice echoes in the hallway. “Um, I called Wheeler? Uh, Nancy. She—she took them all home.”

“Cool,” Steve says, voice tight.

He knows that Eddie has entered the kitchen when he hears a shocked hiss. “Dude, what the fuck? You’re bleeding, wait there, just—”

It’s not a deep cut, Steve thinks numbly. He doesn’t know why Eddie is worried. But he lets him fuss, lets him gently pry the remnants of the plate away, lets him wrap a bandage tightly.

“Hey,” Eddie says. His voice is soft. “Whatever it is, we’ll fix it, ‘kay?”

Steve can’t look at him. Clenches his jaw.

“We will, you hear me, Harrington? I promise.”

Steve shakes his head. “Can’t fix—” he gets out before his throat closes up, and when he glances back, Eddie’s eyes are wide and fearful.

“What?” he says sharply, and he looks almost nauseous, like he suspects he’s about to be told that the monsters are back, that they have never even left. “What the fuck do you mean? You’ve got to tell me, man, just—”

Steve makes an anguished noise that feels like it comes from somewhere in his chest, and Eddie freezes. He considers Steve for a long moment.

“Okay,” he says, a wary placation. “Can you… um. Can you show me instead?”

Steve blinks. He flexes his hand, uncaring of the cut, and jerks his head to the hallway.

Eddie stares. Frowns. Then leaves.

He figures it out, of course he does. Steve just stands there, hears the click of the answering machine. He closes his eyes.

This is all that’s left; these are his scraps. A sigh he’ll never understand. An aborted, “I love you.” It had never come easily to her, but it had left her freely then.

Why?

A hand on his shoulder. Steve opens his eyes.

Eddie looks stricken. “Steve,” he whispers, then stops like he doesn’t have the words.

Steve can’t blame him. Neither does he.

“I didn’t—I didn’t know,” Eddie says. “Steve, I didn’t—”

“They were coming home,” Steve says stupidly, feels a bit like he’s twelve years old. “They were—Eddie. They were gonna come home.”

“Oh,” Eddie says, and it leaves him all in one breath. “Oh, Steve. C’mere.”

Steve falls against him, muffles something that’s half a cry, half a scream against his shoulder—and mourns the loss of a conversation he will never have.

[tightjeansjavi]

The Rite of Movement | part five

“something I’m not, but something I can be”

A/N: big disclaimer for this chapter: I do not know if this is actually how the porn industry functions. And while Brazzers is a real porn site, I don’t have any knowledge of how they run things on their site. For the sake of fiction, and the storyline, I wrote Joel’s era in Brazzers as a very very toxic work environment. Please heed the warnings. This takes place pre-miller-co. Joel and baby love have not met yet. Joel does however have a girlfriend during his time at Brazzers. Oh, and I listened to what was I made for on repeat while I wrote this 🥺 thank you to @itsokbbygrl for betaing and being my little cheerleader through this series 💗 and thank you to all my other friends for your endless support on my silly lil stories! (Y’all know who you are and how much I love you!)

~word count: 3.1k~

Summary: it’s Joel Miller’s 30th birthday. 30 years of existing, 12 years working for Brazzers, and what does he really have to show for his life outside of being a pornstar?

Pairing | pornstar!joel x pornstar!female reader

Warnings: angst, implied smut, toxic work environment, implied workplace abuse, mentions of the porn industry, misogynistic comments/behavior towards women in the porn industry (not by Joel), feelings of body insecurity, shame, mentions of smoking, grief, resentment, language, mature themes, +18 minors dni!

series masterlist

Los Angeles, CA. September 26, 2009

An alarm clock blares on Joel’s nightstand, the shrill sound pierces his eardrums, sending his arm flying out from under the covers, smacking the top of the device, silencing it with a heavy groan rumbling up his chest.

6:00 a.m. the sun has barely just begun to peek over the mountains, the bustle of LA traffic, late-night goers returning home, early-morning risers preparing for another droning day.

The big 30: The age where you were expected to have your shit together. No more making foolish mistakes, no more job hopping, you should be married with kids and have a house with a white picket fence and drive a minivan. You should be invested in the stock market, your lawn should be properly trimmed, maybe you even make enough money to own a vacation home.

Joel hadn’t a fucking clue what he wanted out of life. He wasn’t married. He didn’t have any kids. He lived in an apartment with his brother Tommy, splitting the rent between their paychecks. LA never felt like home to him. He liked the palm trees and the beach. He hated LA traffic, smog, and that stupid Hollywood sign that alluded to a lifestyle that only the ‘chosen’ members of high society would get to indulge in.

City of Angels? Not even close.

30 years old, and feeling like he had nothing to show for his life outside of being a pornstar. A branding identity that shamed him more times than he was willing to admit. Is this all I’m good for?

Brazzers was the bane of his existence for 12 years, and yet every time he would try and put his foot down and quit, he was lured right back in. He loved sex just like anyone else. He loved the intimacy, the closeness, the connection to another human being. Above all, he loved making his partners feel good. To make them come, fall apart on his tongue, fingers, or his cock. To hear their pleasured cries, high-pitched real moans of his name.

It was euphoric for him, to make another person feel so good that they completely lose themselves in the moment, in the feeling of the rite of movement. He used to think that this was enough, that the act of sex and unbridled pleasure was all viewers would want to see. He thought he was enough.

But in the adult film industry, sex was never just enough.

He didn’t like being told how he should fuck.

Yank her hair harder.

Slap her around a little.

Squeeze her cheeks till she cries.

Choke her.

I want to see bruises on her ass, Joel.

Fuck her like you mean it, like you hate her. Like she’s your bitch. Your property.

Are we making a porno here or what? Don’t wipe her tears. That’s not what men want. They want to see a cunt being pounded. C’mon, Joel. This is supposed to be a male fantasy!

He learned how to dissociate and remove himself from the scene entirely. He worked on autopilot, tuning out the jarring voices that demanded more from him and his partner(s). And when the passion faded, he struggled to stay hard and on top of his game.

And even with the warm, wet mouth of a fluffer sucking his soft cock, he wasn’t turned on. Not in the slightest and he could feel the shame creeping up on his neck as the director barked at him to get his shit together.

“What do you mean you’re not able to get hard, Miller? You got a hot piece of ass under you, man! What the hell else do you want? Y’know, would it really hurt for you to be more like your brother?”

“She’s got a name, you know.” Joel bit back, grinding his jaw back and forth. The blatant disrespect that women faced on a day to day basis was downright disgusting.

“Oh for fuck’s sake. You make pornos, Joel! Or did you forget? Stop acting like a fucking sissy and do your goddamn job.”

“I need a minute,” he gruffed out and gently pushed the fluffer's mouth off of his cock. He strode past the director and the rest of the set crew and pulled his boxers on in a haste.

“Fine. You get 10 minutes, Miller. And when you get back, I expect you to be fucking ready, and hard.”

Joel didn’t respond as he shucked on his shorts and threw on his hoodie, grabbing his phone and pack of cigarettes to stuff in his pocket. He averted making eye contact with the director, shoulder checking him on his way out of the room.

10 minutes, Miller!

Fuck you is what Joel really wanted to say as he walked at a fast past towards the nearest exit in the long hallway.

-

The sun was blinding the moment he stepped outside into the back alley. He whipped his phone out, nervously pacing back and forth as he dialed Tommy’s number, listening to the dial tone ring and ring.

“Hey, you old fart! Feelin’ 30 yet?” Tommy said playfully.

“Yeah. I’m feelin’ 30 alright.” Joel grumbled, sinking back against the side of the building.

“What’s up? I know how much you hate your birthday, but why do you sound so—”

“I’m fuckin’ quitting, Tommy. I can’t do this shit anymore. I can’t fuckin’ do it. I’m about five seconds away from stormin’ back in there and beatin’ the living shit out of the director.” He snapped, carding his fingers through his hair, gripping the roots tightly. “I’m throwin’ the towel in, and I ain’t lookin’ back.”

“Woah, woah, woah! Hold on now, what the fuck happened? Are you sure you just want to—”

“Tommy.” Joel warned him, squeezing his eyes shut as he pinched the bridge of his nose with his thumb and forefinger. “Don’t start this with me, okay? I need to know if you’re with me on this because I sure as hell ain’t leavin’ you out here on your own.”

“I ain’t a kid anymore, Joel. If you want to quit for your own reasons, that’s fine, and I support you, but that doesn’t mean that—” he sighed deeply, weighing out his words in his head before he said, “of course I’m with you on this.”

“I’m not gonna force you to quit, Tommy. I jus’ don’t think this cesspool is fuckin’ good for either of us. Talked to a few others that were thinkin’ of quitting, but no one has pulled the trigger yet. We can do some amateur work till we find our footing again, and I want to move back home, Tommy. I want to move back to Texas. I fuckin’ hate this state. Everythin’ is too damn expensive.”

“I’ll follow you wherever you go, Joel. You know I will. But what about…Carmen and Sarah? You jus’ gonna pack your shit up and not tell her?”

Joel felt his heart twist and clench, knocking the air from his lungs because for the first time in his 30 years of life, his heart was going to be broken, and there was nothing he could do to prevent the inevitable from happening.

“She’s never gonna accept me for who I am and my job, Tommy. She resents it, I know she does. And Sarah will eventually resent me too. She’ll grow up and feel ashamed that her stepfather is a fuckin’ pornstar. They both deserve better than what I can offer them. It’s not like I can just start over and get a respectable job! What established company is gonna hire a guy who’s CV consists of a highschool diploma, a year of working construction jobs and 12 years in the adult film industry?”

Tommy felt his heart break for his brother, splitting right down the middle. “Joel…” he trailed off.

“Her friends treat me differently, and everytime I’ve brought up the potential of meeting her family, she changes the subject on me, Tommy. And you know what? I don’t blame her. Who the fuck would want to introduce their pornstar boyfriend to anyone, let alone her family? I jus’ figured I’d cut her losses sooner rather than later. And even if things were to work out, and I get a new job, a new life, am I just supposed to accept the knowledge of knowin’ that the entire time we have been together, she’s resented my job? Some things just aren’t meant to work out, and that’s fine. I’ll let her go and she’ll meet a nice, normal, man with a good stable job who doesn’t fuck for a living.”

Joel Miller. Paging, Joel. You’re needed on set. Hurry the fuck up—

“Fuckers.” Joel muttered under his breath as he rose to his feet. “I gotta go, okay? I’ll text you in a bit.”

“Wait, Joel,” Tommy started, trying to think of what he could possibly say to his brother that would make the situation better. “Everythin’ is gonna be okay. It’ll all work out in the end.”

“Yeah, sure.” He replied flatly. “I’ll see you.” he ended the call, shoving his phone back into his hoodie pocket and pushed open the exit door just as his name was called over the intercom again.

This time he was going to put his foot down for good. He wasn’t going to be lured back in. He was done. His mind was made up and there would be no turning back.

-

“Fucking finally. I said 10 minutes, Miller. You’re lucky I even gave you that.” The director scoffed and snapped his fingers at the fluffer to do her job.

Joel stopped her with a gentle hand along her shoulder before he made direct eye contact with the director. “That won’t be necessary.”

“What the fuck do you mean that won’t be necessary? We were supposed to be wrapped up with this shit already. I have a freshie to introduce to you afterwards, so if we can just get a move on—”

“I said, that won’t be necessary.” Joel calmly reiterated as he grabbed his bag from the floor and slung it over his shoulder.

“Boy, you better fucking start talking. What do you mean that won’t be necessary?!”

“It means that I quit. And I hope that freshie and every other woman here fuckin’ quits while they still have the chance.”

The atmosphere in the brightly lit room immediately shifted and the tension was palpable. Joel’s onscreen partner was shocked, the fluffer was shocked along with the rest of the film crew.

“You have gotta fucking joking me right now.” The director laughed bitterly, shaking his head. “You got some fucking nerve, Miller.”

Joel shrugged, glancing around the room before he turned towards the door, grasping the handle in his palm and pushed it open. He paused, looking over his shoulder, giving his onscreen partner a small, reassuring nod, “oh, and just a little word of advice? If you want sex to sell, and for Brazzers to not tank like the fuckin’ stock market, start by treatin’ women in the industry with respect. Jus’ a little food for thought. Pass that onto the CEO, and then tell him to shove it right up his ass.”

He walked out after that, listening to the director holler his name and something along the lines of, you’ll be back. They always fucking come back!

And on his way out, his shoulder gently made contact with another body rushing up the stairwell. “‘S’cuse me.” He rasped.

You didn’t get a look at the stranger's face on your way up. You were too focused on the fact that you were running late, and couldn’t afford to be potentially fired.

He didn’t get a look at your face either.

-

Joel opted to be alone for the rest of the day, sitting on the hood of his car, smoking through an entire pack of cigarettes while he watched the clouds roll by, and tourists stop to take pictures of the infamous Hollywood sign. He thought about his life up until this point.

30 years on this shithole we call earth. 12 years spent in the adult film industry, and never had he felt so lost and alone. Hours away from ending his first ever long term relationship and leaving the past behind.

Fuck 30. He thought to himself.

The inevitable settled into his bones as the sun slowly began to set behind the mountains, creating stunning hues of pink, oranges and purples in the sky. His phone buzzed on the exterior of the hood of his car, tearing him away from his thoughts when Carmen’s name popped up on the screen.

Hey, birthday boy. Are we still on for Thai food tonight? x.

Hey, baby. Yeah, of course. Can’t wait to see you.

5 missed calls from Tommy

10 messages from Tommy.

What happened to fucking calling me later, Joel?!

Why is your phone going straight to voicemail!

Can you just let me know that you’re okay?!

Joel.

Dude.

Pick up your phone!

And you call me the bad texter?!

This isn’t funny.

I didn’t sign up for the silent treatment!

If you’re dead in a ditch somewhere I’m gonna fucking kill you!!

He typed out a quick message to his brother informing him that he was in fact still alive and that he would be home soon.

What he wasn’t expecting was Carmen and Tommy to host a surprise birthday dinner at his apartment. He wasn’t mad at his brother for not giving him a heads up, and it wasn’t like Tommy could tell Carmen a simple, hey, by the way, my brother is going to break up with you and he wants to move back to Texas!

But all Joel could feel now when she pressed her lips to his in a sweet kiss, and planted a silly little party hat on his head, was guilt. An overwhelming tidal wave of guilt and shame for what he was going to do. And throughout the evening his guilt began to fester like an untreated wound. Bubbling pus leaked from his heartstrings like a broken faucet when he opened his unexpected present from Carmen.

It was a pocket wrist watch with an olive green strap that fit his wrist perfectly.

“You’re always misplacing your phone, so I figured that this would help you tell the time better? I know it isn’t much—”

He interjected softly, looking over at her with a small smile tugging on his lips, “It’s perfect. Thank you.” I’m so sorry.

And when Tommy stepped outside for a smoke and to give Joel and Carmen a bit of privacy, the energy shifted and Joel could feel the thread between them being pulled tight, threatening to snap at any given moment.

“Joel, is everything okay? You’ve hardly said a word to me tonight.”

And instead of responding, he got up from the couch in a haste, trying to keep his nerves at bay, but truthfully? He was panicking and it was written all over his face. “I’m fine, Carm. I jus’—I need some air.” He walked the short distance to the little balcony, pulling the door open as he stepped outside into the cooling night air.

Lights shimmered in the distance, palm trees swayed from a breeze off the coast. 30 years old and he felt like the biggest fucking asshole on the planet. Can I fix this? Can I make it work?

He stared down at the watch on his wrist, the tiny spokes ticking away as he rested his forearms along the paint chipped railing, listening to the soft squeak of the sliding door being pulled open as the blood rushed in his ears.

He tapped his foot nervously, jaw ticking under the fading light at the realization that there was no turning back.

“Do you love me?” He suddenly spoke, teeth grinding down on the inside of his cheek, the taste of copper bursting on his tongue. A reminder come morning when he would awake to the same soreness in his mouth that he feels in his heart.

“Joel…” she trailed off, standing alongside him, rubbing her arm as a self-soothing gesture.

“Do you love me…unconditionally?” His question hung heavy in the air, and when she didn’t immediately answer, tears began to prick the corner of his eyes, stinging and blurring his vision.

“Baby, please…why are—”

“Please don’t call me that right now, Carmen. Please.” he sniffled, staring back out over the railing at the shimmering mirage of Los Angeles. “If you did love me unconditionally, you would have answered me right away. It’s okay, I’m not mad at you. I could never be mad at you. I jus’—I know you resent me for being a pornstar. I’ve known about it for a while,” he said softly, feeling a tear rolling down along the side of his nose and drip down over his lips. His dewy eyed gaze met hers briefly, before he looked away. “And I also know that you would never ask me to quit, but you and I both know that’s what you want from me.”

There was no point in trying to deny it any longer. There was no bad blood, no bitterness. Just two adults facing the reality that is life. And sometimes…relationships don’t work out. The passion fades and resentment rears its ugly head.

“And no matter how many times I have tried to earnestly explain to you why I chose this career path, you will never understand. And I would never try to force you to. But it’s not fair to you, myself, or Sarah to continue this relationship when you will never accept me for who I am, Carmen.”

“You’re right, Joel.” She said quietly, her own tears beginning to brew along her waterline. “I’m so sorry.”

He swallowed the lump growing in his throat and the sob threatening to leave his lips, “I am too.”

There isn’t much left to say as they hug for the last time. She wishes him well in life and he does the same. There’s a new ache in his chest at the thought of him no longer being involved in Sarah’s life anymore. But he believes she’ll be better off without him, too.

And when she leaves his apartment for the last time, taking almost 3 years of memories along with her as the front door clicks shut, and her echoing footsteps down the hall become softer and softer, he lets out the sob he had been suppressing, sinking down to his knees in defeat.

Tears stream down his cheeks as a car horn blares below on the street.

Fuck you, asshole! Get out of the road! The owner of a sleek BMW yells with the window rolled down to a teenager crossing the street on his bike.

30 years old and heartbroken. So much for having his shit together.

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[seekstrivefind]

i was sent to boarding school at six years old.

i lived in an old victorian manor house on top of a hill in the middle of nowhere. there were teachers and house mistresses, but mostly there were other children. i saw my family very little, and even when i did see them, they were strangers who knew practically nothing about me. they might as well not have existed.

aside from my school lessons, i learned everything from these other, isolated children. what was good and bad, cool and uncool, what was important and what was a supposedly proportional response to any of these ideas being challenged. it was, as you'd expect, a feral little echo chamber.

and amongst it all were the expectations (academic, mostly). we were special, we were better than other children that we nebulously understood went to school elsewhere and lived differently somehow (i didn't meet any non boarding school kids until I was 12 or 13, and then only saw them in the summer).

when expectations are put on you like that, when you're so steeped in then that you know nothing else, you convince yourself that they happen to align with your own desires. they push you, but you push yourself harder. later, as an adult, you'll look back and wonder why you threw yourself so rabidly into something you never really wanted. when you're in it, you can't think of doing anything else, because you learn all your shame there, too.

so there you are, a cohort of young people who fiercely believe that you are independently chasing something that matters more than anything else in the world. and when adults look at you pityingly and dare to suggest you are being fed into a big, pointless machine that will chew you up and spit you out into adulthood with nothing to show for it, you get angry. because they don't understand, they couldn't possibly understand. you throw yourself willingly into the machine. it chews you up like meat (the adults were right all along, of course).

and that's why I'm so emotional about the fourth house, because tamsyn muir fucking nailed boarding school trauma.

[writersrkive]

Protector | Lo'ak Sully

summary: you heard how Jake referred to his sons after the reef accident and you couldn't take it anymore, you were tired and decided to defend your confidant, not caring about getting in trouble with Mr. Sully, the na'vi who raised you.

gender: angst, comfort

pairing: Loa'k Sully x gn!omaticaya!reader (can be read as platonic or romantic, but use of "best friend" once)

warnings: Jake being a mean dad (sorry Jake, luv u), heartbreak and insecure Lo'ak because of his daddy issues, father and son argument, reader talking back/defending Lo'ak, “you brought shame to this family" scene, use of “y/n” four times.

a/n: so... people argue about if Jake is a good or a bad father. All I know is that I like Jake, but I would fight him to defend Lo'ak (I know l would lose, but stil). l like the idea after l read "Life of a traitor" (on AO3, by SelfObsessedCaramel) and a one-shot that I read here a long time ago but I can't find the user to give credits, basically reader defends Lo’ak too and Jake and Neytiri are a little mad and surprised, but happy because reader was a good mate for their son, I think reader was a human (tag them if you know who the author is, please). English is not my first language, be kind, please <3.

Masterlist

When Jake and Neytiri decided that you, an orphan, could go to the Metkayina clan with them (because you were raised by the Omatikaya clan and the Sullys), Tuk was the one who smiled the most, Kiri was relieved because she didn't have to deal with other people's shit alone, Neteyamn was glad because you, their childhood friend, made things easier by thinking with a intelligent brain and not with a skxawng brain like his brother.

But Lo'ak, oh, Lo'ak. The boy was so glad, relieved and excited, all of this because you are the only na'vi that listens to him, actually listens. All the time his family is too much for him he can go with you and with a single look at his expression you can know something is wrong. Yes, he loves his family, but sometimes he feels like a burden and a weird thing incapable of belonging. With you he doesn't feel like that because you know him.

That's the reason why, when Jake said that horrible thing "You brought shame to this family", you almost heard your best friend's heart breaking. A small silence between Jake, Neytiri, Neteyam and you was enough to remember one of all the times when he came to you trying to feel better after an argument with his dad.

When you were kids he would find it difficult to be vulnerable in front of you or expose that he needed some type of physical contact to feel better, since he felt that he had to be a great little warrior in front of you so that you wouldn't make fun of him. But the first time he fell off a tree (when Spider, Lo'ak and you were trying to grab some fruits) you quickly managed to hug him and put his head on your neck, stroking his hair to calm him down while Spider went to look for Jake. Since then Lo'ak was sure you would always be there for him, no matter how vulnerable he can be.

One day, at 12 years old, you were searching for materials to make new matching beads for Lo'ak and you. The sound of the river didn't let you hear your friend approaching. He scared you when you turned around and saw him a few steps behind you.

"Skxawng, you scared me." You laughed. When he didn't make fun of you, you notice the way he was looking down, trying to hide a few tears.

"What's wrong?" You asked, worried.

"My... my dad." He cringed at his own broken voice. "Ugh, never mind. It's ridiculous, always the same bullshit.

"No, no. Lo'ak, whatever you are feeling is valid. Come here, you wanna talk about it?”

Both of you sit next to the river, with a basket full of materials behind you. You embraced him and he let himself cry on your shoulder. "I was just trying to help. Neteyam was bringing this huge animal for the meal, I tried to help him, but I slipped. l couldn't grab anything to stop my fall because of the huge animal and I ended up stepping on my brother's bow," You grabbed his hand and squeezed it trying to comfort him. "Neteyam wasn't even mad, he knew it was an accident, but my dad told me that l had to be more careful, that it was my fault if Neteyam couldn't hunt in a few days because he had to make a new bow. He can hunt with his knife! But it's always my fault in my father's eyes, as if I don't know that l always mess up things.” He sighted. "He said.. yelled that if l wasn't able to help, I had better not get in the way.”

That broke your heart. Lo’ak was a bit of a rebel and curious soul, and sometimes he could get in trouble because of that (because he wanted to show people that he was good enough in many aspects), but he never had bad intentions.

Maybe to other people he didn't care when he was scolded and apparently just got mad and defensive, but you knew he was sensitive too.

"Okay. Maybe your dad is stress right now. You know that recently the clan have had problems hunting enough for the meals." Lo'ak nodded. "However, that's not an excuse for treating you like that."

When he calmed down, he lay down looking at you with red puffy eyes. You tried your best to make him laugh by splashing a little bit of water to his face.

"Don't worry, we are gonna go hunt together and help Neteyam to make a new bow."

"Deal."

"Can I go now?" Your best friend asked.

“Any more trouble, I jerk a knot in your tail. You read me?” Jake asked while you cringed at the fact that he still thought his sons were little soldiers.

“Yes, sir. Lima Charlie.” Lo'ak was giving him an ‘I don't give a fuck’ attitude, just like every time he just wanted to stay away from his father.

“Go on.” Jake said after giving him another scolding look.

You followed Lo’ak, watching his tail swing angrily. You bit your tongue trying to control the disgust you were feeling towards the na'vi that always gave you a sweet pat on your head every time you felt down. Because it was unfair the way Mr. Sully treated Kiri, Tuk, and you with patience the days you guys were just not able to handle life, but he didn't let his sons explain when something didn't end up as expected.

All of the Sullys were so worried when Ao'nung told them that Lo'ak was nowhere to be found outside of the reef, but you almost had a panic attack in front of Neteyam because you would not be able to handle losing another friend. The burning pain of not knowing where or how Spider was was enough for your heart. So, of course, you weren't happy when you noticed the antipathy of Mr. and Mrs. Sully.

Your sweet touch helped Lo'ak to maintain himself calm, but your own calmness disappeared when you listened:

“Where were you?” it was Neytiri's voice.

«Oh, great mother, she did not just say that to Neteyam.»

“Yeah. What happened to ‘keep an eye on your brother’?”

“Sorry, sir.” the oldest Sully brother answered.

“No. Where were you?.” Your voice resonated between a heavy silence. Jake and Neytiri looked at you confused, Lo'ak turned around, thinking what he heard was a hallucination, and Neteyam was shocked.

“Excuse me?” Jake said, unhappy by your sudden disrespect.

“You are the parents, not Neteyam.” You repeat, starting to feel a little angry. “An older child is not supposed to be a third parent. You are the responsible ones for the security of your children.”

“You think I don't know that, y/n?”

“Well, sometimes it is not how it looks.”

“Y/n, I know I'm not your father, but you need to respect me. Especially when I-"

“Respect is something that is earned. And yes, I'm thankful for all the things you guys have done for me, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna pretend you are not being mean with your son.”

“Y/n, is not the right time...” Neteyam tried to talk to you.

“It is. All these years, I've been respectful about your parent technique, but I will not stand it anymore.” You got close to Jake. “You are understanding with Kiri, Tuk, and me while you are mean to Neteyam and Lo'ak, using the excuse that you are trying to protect them. But you don't act like a father. You act like a soldier who can not forget.”

“You don't know what you are talking about.”

“Maybe I don't know all the things you went through on Earth, and I'm not judging you because I know you were hurt too. But because you were hurt doesn't give you the right to hurt others! Especially when they are your family.” Lo'ak watched the way your tail swung side to side in an anxious move. “You don't think words can hurt? Because day after day I see one of the most important na’vi for me, thinking they are not good enough for anyone because of you, and thinking that they are not worth being loved.”

That made Neytiri flinch and look at her son with a hurt expression.

“Listen…” Jaks said after giving a quick peek to Lo'ak, who was now standing next to you.

“No! You listen, because you never do!” You weren't yelling, but your voice was loud enough to make Jake realise he had never seen you like that. “You don't know where Lo'ak was or how he ended up there. You can't tell me you believed what he said about Ao'nung trying to stop him.” Neteyam didn't know where all of the sudden confrontation came from, but deep down, he was a little bit happy that someone was telling his dad about the things he didn't see. “And still you don't let him explain what happened. You never listen when Neteyam tries to tell you things fail, not because he wasn't being responsible, but because he's still a kid, not an adult.”

Neytiri wasn't happy about your attitude, but seeing Lo'ak shocked made her realise that maybe all the things you were saying were somehow things Lo'ak (and Neteyam) wanted to say.

“We know you try to protect us, and you want us to be strong, but you forget that we are still kids. They need you as a dad, not a soldier. They need your love and comprehension. And yes, you need to scold them sometimes, but not make them feel unhappy with themselves.”

“That's not my intention” was all Jake could say.

“That's what you are doing.”

You sighted, tired of all the emotions you went through in just one day. You grabbed Lo'ak's hand and walked away, while Jake, Neytiri, and Neteyam admired the way their son and brother looked at you with pure love.

Lo'ak and you were sitting on a big rock, admiring the beautiful ocean and purple sky. Both of you haven't said anything since you arrived there, wanting to be left alone and in peace after the confrontation.

“You know you are incredible, right?” Lo'ak was the first one to break the silence.

“Yeah? Well, now your parents hate me.”

“I'm sure it will pass, Neteyam will help you.”

“And what about you? You're gonna leave me to die in your parent's hands?” I smiled a little bit.

“No, no. I will never do that.” He said, looking at you, almost directly to your soul. You didn't expect to feel nervous under his gaze, but his eyes were telling you a lot of things that he couldn't process into words. “Thank you.”

“You don't have to thank me, Lo’ak…”

“Y/n, thank you.” His fingers found your hand, so they started to caress your hand gently. “I admire you so much. Sometimes I don't know if I wanna be Neteyam or you.”

“You have to be your own person.” I grabbed his hand. “Because Lo'ak is just as perfect and enough. And I know that because I see you.” I said with a soft tone.

A shy but playful smile appeared on his face. He looked cute when he didn't dare to make eye contact with you for a few seconds.

“I see you.” He answered after looking at you again.

[stupidlittlespirit]

Hey this was the anon who said you made Ford a cutie patootie 🥺🥺

I really agree with the whole 'bill and Ford were never romantic' vibe. I do believe Ford cared for Bill in a way, but Bill in general is also the abusive partner that enjoys having you in his arms and the moment you try to leave will make your life a living hell.

I think that's honestly why I hate most asshole!Ford fics lately. Except for your of course! Society really sees abuses victims horribly and especially men. Theres a pretty big part of the Fandom that vilifies Ford in a hateful way. Like I know he's done horrible and yes he treated Stanley and Fiddleford bad. But I wouldn't be surprised if his father never brought up Stanley after he kicked out, and expected his wife and Ford to follow. He if he did it was only negative talk on how useless he was. Ford was a child at the time and as he grew up he probably missed Stanley but was too prideful to pick up the phone first. And then he met Bill.

Someone who praised him and told him he was in the right no matter what. Yes he was awful to Fiddleford. But that's what abusers do. They tear down everyone else who can help you until it's only the two of you against the entire world. And honestly, I'm sorry but Fiddleford needs to get some hate for just leaving Standford like that. Being a friend to someone in an abusive relationship is awful. But if you know that they don't have anyone else, you have to put boundaries, you don't just leave! But I also can't blame Fiddleford all the way.

Idk idk I'm sorry for rambling, but honestly I think that's why most of the fanfic writers who write about Ford really forget that he was so horrifically abused and when as he got older all he felt was shame and he was alone for 30 years with that feeling.

First of all, sorry it took me so long to answer this! My PC is fucked and I needed to sit my ass down and type out a proper answer for you because I have so many feelings on this, anon.

This is all below a cut because it's looooong.

tl;dr if you don't care: Bill put a noose around Ford's neck the moment they met and convinced him it was a scarf until Ford was hanging from the rafters, feet twitching, face blue.

TW: Abuse, suicide.

Anyway, the kitchen is open so let's cook!

Bill is an absolutely horrific being.

I fear that sometimes (oftentimes) he gets the fandom woobification treatment where he becomes entirely The Meme or somebody's silly widdle guy and when it happens so much, especially when certain groups of people are hellbent on saying 'this is canon!' dead seriously, it warps perceptions around him.

He effectively manipulates his audience just as he manipulated Dipper and Ford.

Bill is a demon. Not just any old demon, either: The Demon. THE guy. He's vicious and powerful and manipulative, and sure in TboB we get to see that he carries some significant trauma with him but it doesn't mean he is any less than what he is: Evil.

Some trauma influenced behaviours can be explained, but they can never be excused.

Bill is a push-pull, hot-cold, jerk around asshole who gets off on hurting people because he's so badly hurt himself that it makes him feel good to see others suffer even a fraction of what he experiences. There are two types of people who go through trauma: 1. It happened to me and I was nearly destroyed, I'll never see it happen to another person for so long as I live. OR 2. I suffered so why shouldn't they?

It's pretty clear which category Bill fits into, right? So, while he hurts because he's hurting, he has also just grown accustomed to enjoying the suffering of others. It's sustenance to him.

I remember watching GF for the first time and seeing Bipper, and it awoke something within me: That demon is torturing a child. A CHILD. I hadn't been allowed to watch horror movies much as a kid and seeing this line be crossed where something was literally throwing a 12 year old boy down the stairs, stabbing him with forks, threatening to kill him, was incredible to me. I was floored.

Partially because I think it's good to show kids suffering trauma; they're not immune and they're more often than not the main victims. It's a disservice to make adults comfortable by protecting the children in media imo. Even nowadays I'm pissed off when the child character escapes unscathed from the 'all knowing totally evil demonic force' in a movie because I still crave that rawness and cruelty I saw in Bipper when I was younger.

But I digress. It's also because here was a being so nasty that he'd play GTA 5 in a kid's body just for funsies and to get something that he wants. He'd bully and torture and tease and humiliate. That's rough, man. Real rough. Especially knowing the kid was watching it all happen, completely helpless.

Anyway; Bill memes are fun, but not at the cost of forgetting just what Bill actually is.

When it comes to Ford, Bill does the same thing we saw with Dipper, except Dipper has morals. Dipper has love and light and people to keep him grounded.

Ford had none of that. Ford was abused, just like Stan (though I could go on for hours about the differences), and grew up equating love to success and respect to fear. He was set up for social failure. He was put on a very different track to his peers almost immediately and he was isolated from everyone bar Stan from the moment he was born. Stan grounded Ford and kept him human.

Ford had no chance right from the start. The equation of being smart, knowing you're smart, and then having people Grima Wormtongue in your ear your whole childhood, when you're most malleable, that you're responsible for lifting your family out of poverty, you're the Good Son, you're meant for more, you're the one we love the most but only because you serve a purpose so you better not fail or we'll snatch everything away from you and you'll be just like your purposeless brother.... And you don't want to be like your loser brother who we hate, do you Fordsy?

He doesn't start lost in the sauce, but his head is held under until he has no choice but to breathe it in, and when someone is drowning it's hard to tell from the shore if they're having fun or if they're in trouble. Nobody noticed his distress and if they did, they didn't care. He was vulnerable right from the start.

And you're right about people hating male abuse victims. The stats are really skewed on the amount because there's such shame around coming out about it as a guy that we'll never really know just how prolific it is. The same as sexual assault stats for men. But what I can say is almost every male friend I've ever had has told me about a partner of theirs or an old relationship that is just plain old black and white abusive. Most of the time, they shrug it off or don't even know that's what they suffered, and if I have to watch the light change in another man's eyes when I gently tell him "hey, you know that what you're telling me is that he/she abused you, right?" then I'm going to scream. They're looked down on for coming out about it; considered weak and less manly for it. Humiliated for it.

Now imagine how it was when Ford was a boy in the 40's (or whenever he was born, there are no solid dates afaik). He'll have been raised to believe men are strong and that they don't cry, they don't let people push them around, mental illness isn't real you're just pathetic. It's everything I just mentioned but 1000x more intense. Nowadays, men are laughed at. Back then, you'd be ostracised and made the joke of the town until you killed yourself.

So poor old Ford, who is already on the back foot, ends up suffering for his genius and throwing himself into his work when it becomes apparent to him that he 'has no other uses' as a person. He isn't funny, he isn't handsome, he's a freak, he can't hold conversations (all his opinions and from others) etc etc. All he has is his research and his brain.

He loses himself in it. In his excitement (which is innocent and genuine by the way, I don't believe he had bad intentions), he drags his best friend along (and we'll get to Fidds in a minute, I have a lotta thoughts on him too) and ignores other people's distress because he's having fun and 'doing the right thing' in his opinion, he's driving innovation and he's always been told by other, more prestigious people that he's justified in his cause.

His father probably enforced at a young age that people that get in his way are just trying to hold him back (ie. Stan), so; If the hillbillies in this damn town don't have the IQ to understand me, then they're idiots. It couldn't possibly be that I might be encroaching on their lives or causing them problems and getting in their way whilst they try to work as labourers or whatever, it's because they're wrong and I'm right.

And of course, there were times when Ford didn't really actually do anything wrong and was met with animosity, but he didn't have the social skills to diffuse the situation and explain himself in layman terms, so it fed into this Ouroboros of try to be nice and social - fail - create friction - get lost in research - create friction - try to be social - fail etc.

So he's not getting socialisation from others, he's pushing Fiddleford as hard as he can and Fiddleford understandably has other interests to balance which makes him slowly seem less invested, and then, conveniently, up pops Bill.

Bill, who agrees with everything Ford says. Bill, who justifies all the thoughts and feelings Ford has ever had. Bill, who tells Ford everything he's ever wanted to hear from his father and his peers and his brother and his wildest dreams.

Bill, who knows how isolation and flattery works to weaken prey.

You have to admit: Bill's work was impressive. He spent a year, maybe even longer, committing to the bit over Ford. Giving him everything he wanted, feeding his ego, making it seem like all he was doing was helping him and encouraging him and propping him up.

Ford had had a weak form of that before from other people, but those people were parasites. Bill presented as the host and he offered Ford a crutch for the first time in his life. A friend, an equal, possibly someone of even higher standing.

And Ford, who has NO social skills, no street smarts, no emotional awareness, had no idea that nothing comes for free from somebody like Bill, so he jumped into the shallow pool from the 100 meter board with both feet down, eyes shut and hands off the wheel. Ford was desperate for someone to meet him on his level and the moment somebody did, he let himself be swept away by it.

Which, of course, was Bill's plan all along. Bill had probably always been around Ford when he'd first come to Gravity Falls. He'd been watching and waiting for the right time to strike, as ambush predators do, and the moment Ford had stumbled on a metaphorical crack in the path and exposed a weak spot, up pops Bill to hold his hand and tell him that the pavement was in the wrong the whole time and really, Ford shouldn't have to look where he's putting his feet, the whole world should just move for him instead.

From there, it would have been easy.

I think Ford likes to think he's complex and hard to read, and he probably is to people who don't recognise his type, but he's a fucking picture book to the people that do. That's why he works so hard to make himself seem cool and mysterious: because he's really obviously none of those things but simple smoke and mirrors go a long way to confuse people who don't care to look any deeper or are too naïve to do so. If people see the real him, they'd laugh at him (in his opinion).

So Bill, with all his flattery and gassing up, would have let Ford think the ball was in his court for a while, and Ford, emboldened by lies and a literal god-like being telling him he was right (plus everyone else from his past telling him the same thing), got bolder and more intense and lost himself without even really realising it was happening.

Ford, in his enthusiasm, pressed on Fidds even harder and was disappointed that the only man he cared about (other than his brother, because we know he still loved Stan dearly) wasn't able to match his stride. After all, I think Ford probably thought Fidds was the closest thing to an equal he'd ever had, and Bill used Fidds' hesitation to push Ford further away from him.

Once Ford was fully blinded, Bill began to cut off the blood to the other parts of Ford's lifeforce (and there weren't many to begin with) with delicate expertise that even the most prolific of abusers would die to achieve.

And don't forget that Bill also loves attention (he's a genuine egotistical maniac, whereas I don't think Ford is inherently egotistical, I think he's a product of his environment) and Ford gave him that unconditionally because Ford thought that blind worship equates to love, which is only possible through fear and forced, submissive respect. By cutting off Ford's other connections, Bill got all the attention to himself.

That's where the fun part started for Bill. Bill started to make him second guess himself. He tricked him under the guise of helping and then, without Fidds to ground him, Ford bought into all of it. He told Ford the townsfolk hated him because he was better than them, he told Ford he was too good for everyone else, his brother, etc. Bill effectively became Filbrick's voice in Ford's head. He needed to control Ford.

People think 'seduction' is inherently sexual or romantic, but it isn't. Seduction is manipulation in its purest form. Seduction is negative. It is used to pull people away from their path in order to convince them to give up or go against the part of themselves that knows better. It lowers one's guard. It gets under someone's skin and convinces them it belongs there. I've been a sex worker for 10 years; trust me when I tell you I have a PhD in both doing this and being victim to it. (I'm also an abuse survivor and my abusers trained me well in this which is hard to unlearn at times.)

Bill seduced Ford into thinking he was safe and in control right up until the last moment when Bill could strike. He put a noose around Ford's neck the moment they met and convinced him it was a scarf until Ford was hanging from the rafters, feet twitching, face blue.

Ford was never in love with him and Bill wasn't with Ford. You can't be in a situation like that. Ford respected Bill and to command the respect of someone like Ford? Well, you'd have to be pretty special, in Ford's opinion.

Bill only wanted to possess Ford, literally and figuratively. He wanted something to control and use and keep as a pet while he got what he wanted. Every king needs a jester.

There are signs that Bill also, deep down, might have wanted a friend and to be understood in the same way Ford did, but it was a small part of him that came second to his desire to hurt. Bill was also an outcast and he knew how vulnerable that makes a person; why else are all his henchmaniacs outcasts too? Because it's easy to persuade a person with no support into a perceived 'found family' than it is to do it to someone who is grounded by love. It becomes a game of in-group out-group.

Ford saying no to Bill would have taken great strength after all that time and as soon as Bill doesn't get what he wants, he destroys. It would have been an immediate punishment and that whiplash would have been vicious.

Ford, with no real friends, would have considered Bill his bestie, effectively.

Now, idk if you've ever been betrayed by someone you love as a best friend, but it is INFINITELY more painful than a regular breakup. Like, impossibly so. Especially when you don't have many to begin with and you're already damaged by abuse.

My love for my best friends runs deeper than any romantic partner I have ever had and will ever have. To be betrayed (and for me, it was seriously significant) was the worst feeling in the world and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I attempted suicide (conflated by other things but also because of this friend betraying me) and I will never get over their betrayal. I am wary of getting close to others now because of that and I don't think I'd ever be friends with someone so intimately again, beyond the best friend I have currently (shout out @/ghostbu, i love u).

So to experience a rug pull of astronomical proportion would have been devastating for Ford. We see Ford try to leave, try to say no again and again, literally begging, only to have his life threatened, his body violated, his work destroyed, his entire existence made into nothing. Which is a hard enough fall for someone with a big ego, but for someone who is also vulnerable and frankly, quite very emotional alongside being intelligent, would be gutting. Some people miss Ford's emotionality and reduce him to being The Smart Guy and I think that's a disservice.

So Ford was utterly ripped to shreds, both physically and emotionally, until he could only turn to the person he knew would still come running: Stan.

Stan adores his brother, so of course he came when Ford clicked his fingers. Ford, I think, also adores Stan, but is so manipulated by everybody else in his life that he convinces himself that his emotions do him a disservice and make him weak (as mentioned before about old attitudes), so he can't 'lower' himself to examine them. Bill doesn't help with that, either.

Stan came running and we all know what happened next.

Ford then spends 30 years NOT being the smartest guy in the room and realising he never really was the smartest guy in the room outside of academia. That kind of ego death is brutal and he would have gone through some incredible soul searching in that time period, which is why I think there are several versions of Ford that exist. Childhood/College!Ford, Research-era!Ford and Post portal!Ford. They all different men to me, personally.

So yeah, he's a deeply difficult character to understand imo and he's often a paradox because he doesn't know how to hold all these emotions in tandem; he's black and white, not grey.

Now, onto Fidds:

You gotta remember, Fidds had no idea what Bill was doing to his beloved friend.

Ford kept him a secret because in his view (a view manipulated by Bill), 'they'd never understand us. They'd separate us'. A common sentiment by people being abused. 'They' being really anybody with half a brain who saw how dangerous Bill was and cared about Ford.

Fidds was already absolutely terrified by the stuff he was seeing. My guy grew up on a pig farm in the country, he wasn't prepared for all this stuff to be real. Even Ford didn't know the supernatural was provably real before he came to Gravity Falls.

Now, I love cryptids but if I came across a dogman or bigfoot in real life, I'd fucking shit myself. They're scary! They'll kill you!

He also saw his best friend fucking lose his mind and that's really frightening too, especially with no one around to help.

Fidds had people that loved him back home (and I know he wasn't great to them, that's a different kettle etc) and relied on him. He had a life outside of his research; a son, a wife, a family and probably other friends. He had something to lose. If he died, it would have an effect.

Ford was cavalier because the only thing he thought he had to lose at that point was his work (not true, of course, but in head I think his life came second to his work).

Fiddleford was a victim of Ford's unintentional abuse. And Ford did abuse people, even if he was also being abused. The cycle of abuse is, unfortunately, very very real and it can't be justified just because someone who inflicts it was also a victim: Manson was abused, but no one excuses his crimes.

Explanation, not excuse, remember?

I think Ford was turned into a bad person temporarily and Fidds bore the brunt of that and went on to neglect his own family because he was also being isolated by Ford.

It's so fucking tragic and I could go on for hours about this (I already have, this took me two hours to write). They're really complex people and it does frustrate me when people pooh-pooh them as silly yaoi babies or as just plain bad people. It's never that simple.

And disclaimer: Everyone is entitled to their interpretations, obviously. They're not my characters and this is my own interpretation, so it isn't 'right', it's just how I see them as somebody who experienced similar things as Ford and Stan (minus the literal demonic element).

Whew sorry for rambling!

[deeptrashwitch]

Father's Anger

Taglist (just to show :3): @alypink @snootlestheangel @islandtarochips @hollywood-is-bleeding

@cynicvice @midnight193 @mutantthedark @justasmolbard @welldonekhushi

@tapioca-milktea1978 @imagoddamnonionmason @stargazing-sapphire2 @milkteaarttime @blacktacmopsi

@maymaylyn @thatonesillyducko @seraphiixiao @me-is-confused @gunnrblze

Joselyn is beautiful @thatonesillyducko oc!! Go get a look at her bio and give her some love!!

Mario was on his guard rotation, simply looking at the enormous trees with a nostalgic and tired look. He stared at the sunlight pecking down the leaves while he surrounded himself by the odd silence of the rainforest. Then he heard little sobs and steps.

He recognized them in seconds, and ran down the tree he was over. In silence he hugged his daughter, who was crying.

"Sweetie, what happened?" He asked, worried.

"I-I was training, a-and the rifle got stuck..." She explained while sobbing, "and when I tried to fix it, m-my hand..."

Then Mario looked at Juliana's hand, just to see how it was bleeding and full of burns. He felt his own eyes fill with tears, and carried her in his arms to look for one of the medics that escaped with them. In silence he stayed with J.J while the medic treated her wounds, all while the little girl cried in pain.

Mario just tried to comfort her, seeing how despite being 12 years old, J.J cried and reached for him in the middle of that. He sighed while caressing her hair gently while thinking. It has been two months since they all arrived to that hellish camp.

He was filled with a sense of impotence that was overwhelming. No matter how much he tried, J.J was still confined to this place as well while all the kids we're forced to learn how to fight for their survival. In silence he hugged his daughter, just to see how more kids started to arrive, also with burns and wounds.

Then he saw little Joselyn, the sweet girl he and Camilo have been taking care of along with the other kids. He noticed how her arms were filled with burns and sharpnel wounds. The girl was screaming while another medic cured her as well, asking the medic to stop and looking at him, almost pleading for help.

It became unbearable.

Mario kissed J.J's forehead gently and caressed Joselyn's hair before stepping out to take some air. It was a digrace see in what the childhood had come to. Then he found the trainer, who seemed too calm.

"It's a shame, isn't it? All the kids got hurt doing some basic training." He mentioned calmly.

"They're kids, they know nothing of this, it's normal to have wounds even as adults." Mario said as a response.

The man laughed and lighted a cigar. "Oh well, suits them well."

"What did you say?" He asked, getting a chill down his spine.

"Oh nothing, it's just that kids should keep quiet, this batch are quite foul mouthed. I'm glad they learned the lesson."

That made Mario's blood ran cold. It told him what he needed to know. That bastard sabotaged it.

With his control gone just for a minute, his hands flew to the man's neck. He started to clench with his face completely calm except for his eyes. No matter how much the other tried to get off after the shock was gone, Mario didn't let go at all, instead he kept adding pressure.

"Listen to me. These kids have enough on their plates to also being leading with your shit." He said with a glacial cold voice. "And the next time I hear or even see a wound like that on any of them, I'll put your rifle in your ass and shoot until the magazine is empty while you watch 'til you end your pathetic life. Next time, you're a goner. Understand?"

The man nodded despite his anger, which transformed in fear when Mario dragged him to one of the barrels that they used as bonefire. The trainer tried to squirm away while everyone watched, with the guerrillas leaders curious and trying to see if they need to intervene or not. Mario, out of rage and with a blank expression, forced the trainer's hands into the fire.

"No one, and I mean NO ONE, will touch the children." He warned calmly, ignoring the screams of the other man and the smell of burnt flesh. "If you do, know this is what awaits for you."

After that, he grabs the head of the trainer and slams it against the edge of the barrel as it opened a wound in his face. When he let go and the man fell down, still screaming in pain, Mario just looked down with an unsettling calm.

"Get out of my sight before I kick your teeth back into your mouth." He said, glaring coldly at the hurt man.

The trainer managed to stand up, looking at Mario with fear before running away. Meanwhile, Mario simply went back to the medical tent, hugging J.J and Joselyn gently while he hummed a soft song. Simply hearing the advice from the medic, taking mental notes to help them later.

"It's okay, girls, it'll be okay, I promise." He whispered softly, still hugging them.

[singemall-stayallnight]

It Was a Different Time - The Led Zeppelin Edition

Jimmy Page and baby groupie Lynn Koenigsaecker, AKA Queenie Glam, 1972. | Credit: Michael Ochs Archives

When the subject of Led Zeppelin and underage girls or "baby groupies" has been broached on here, I've usually seen responses along the lines of "it was a different time," "that's how things were in the 70s," "it was accepted/not viewed as wrong back then," or "put their behavior in the context of the times."

Contrary to oft-repeated claims on here, adults dating & having sex with young teens was generally not acceptable in the 70s, either. Not only that, but Jimmy Page and Robert Plant (allegedly) continued to have sex with underage girls after the ’70s ended, but we’ll get to that later.

"I just read an oral history of Led Zeppelin and was shocked to find out Jimmy Page had a long relationship with a 13 year old girl. Sable and Lori were pubescent LA groupies."

"I think the media covered up a lot of stuff. They knew it was going on. For instance, it was no secret what JFK was up to, but there was an understanding that certain things were not to be discussed and that "boys will be boys." I recall reading that Polanski was shocked at the reaction when his actions hit the press."

by Anonymous reply 3 January 26, 2014 2:38 AM

[quote] "'Fucking a 13 year old has been unacceptable for many years.'

It wasn't ever really acceptable. It was semi acceptable in 1960's - 1970's California with and among celebrities. The press didn't used to be what it is now. You hardly ever heard anything about the private lives of musicians. Just what little they gave out in interviews. There weren't really any paparazzi following musical groups. The only pictures the newspapers printed were professional pictures."

by Anonymous reply 13 January 26, 2014 4:23 AM

"It was not accepted in the average family lol Maybe it was accepted in hollywood for men to have sex with girls who were teens and barely teens but I doubt most of the public knew about it. These men are VERY lucky that paparazzi wasn't what it is now or they'd all be either jailed or shamed like Polanski"

by Anonymous reply 27 January 12, 2016 3:53 AM

"People had no idea he was screwing a 14-year-old and many would have been disgusted. The groupies who were showcased on TV were older women like Cherry Vanilla and Cynthia Plaster Caster."

by Anonymous reply 29 January 12, 2016 4:42 AM

"The obits are not going to be printing that David Bowie fucked a 13 year old Lori Maddox, that's for sure.

Back then, of course these men knew that the vast majority of people would regard them as perverted if they knew the rock star was having sex with young teens, this is why they kept it quiet, then as now. Page was very careful to keep Maddox hidden from view. The Beatles kept it quiet that they were fucking multiple teenagers on their tours.

Rock and pop has always been a genre that celebrates het male sexuality in most of its forms and gives extreme license to its most popular stars, whether their behavior is socially acceptable or not. Look at the lyrics of the Stones Stray Cat blues.

There's a recent blind about a singer in a huge pop group whose security invited a 13 year old back to his hotel room and when she got there she was told to shave everything as that's how he liked his girls. She freaked and left. Most guessed it was Zayn Malik."

by Anonymous reply 40 January 12, 2016 11:09 AM

"Wow the pedo apologist posters in here are pathetic. It was NOT socially accepted by most parents for their young teens to be fucking with adults. Just because someone is famous and maybe no longer goes after underage kids, that does not mean he/she is not a pedo. The idea that a lot of the rock stars mentioned in this thread did it for a period of time means they're disgusting pedos. Appropriately calling someone a pedo does not make me a SJW either. It doesn't matter whether the underage kid involved thinks it was acceptable then or now-it's still sickening."

by Anonymous reply 51 January 12, 2016 3:31 PM

"'It doesn't matter whether the underage kid involved thinks it was acceptable then or now-it's still sickening.'

It reveals a lot about these men, certainly. Bowie was born in a working class home in South London. If he had tried to fuck a 14 year old girl there, he would have had the shit beaten out of him by the men in that community and been labelled a 'kiddie fiddler'. These men used their money and their entourages to exploit these very young, uneducated kids with parents who either didn't give a shit about them or were star struck themselves.

Lori Maddox comes across as - to put it kindly - very low intellect. What were these men talking to her about? Nothing. It was a relationship based on them taking advantage of her sexually and then tossing her like rubbish when they were done. Nice guys."

by Anonymous reply 52 January 12, 2016 4:12 PM

"don't forget that pedo piece of shit manager guy of the Runaways who died recently."

by Anonymous reply 64 January 13, 2016 3:33 PM

Robert Plant, Lita Ford, and Jimmy Page. | Source: Pinterest

Jimmy Page, Kim Fowley, and Robert Plant. | Source: Flickr

"It was not considered normal by the kids themselves even back then. As a kid, I saw it as boomers getting old and bitter and not being able to handle not being young themselves anymore, so they sleeved on the young/junior highers like they still were peers. It wasn't just Led Zeppelin. (I was first wave Gen X although there wasn't a name for it then.)

There was also a wave of young teen girls, that no matter what their socio-Econ background, who had decided that being tough, drug-addled trash was a form of freedom to get away from their parents. The differences between parent and child then were really severe back then."

by Anonymous reply 66 January 13, 2016 4:07 PM

"And that post had so many errors I wish I could delete it! Well, maybe you can get the gist anyway. Anyway, Sable came from my neighborhood, though maybe 10-15 years ahead of me. Not considered normal."

by Anonymous reply 67 January 13, 2016 4:11 PM

"Joan Didion was writing about the hippy scene with a sharp eye in the sixties and seventies, she saw that huge numbers of the young hippy girls were teen runaways, fleeing incest and other types of abuse. Running away was a major thing back then.

So on the West Coast there were thousands of runaway girls, no money, no home, no parents who gave a shit about them. Men arrived in SF in 67, 68 with the specific intent to drug them and have sex with them , or rape them, it's in Slouching Towards Bethlehem and her article on the Manson Family. This scene is what was dressed up as 'Free Love'.

The Runaways stories that were covered last year showed the reality of how girls were treated in rock back then. Unless you were a Joni Mitchell* or a Emmylou Harris, smart and self-protecting, you were treated like shit."

by Anonymous reply 105 January 14, 2016 4:15 PM

Robert Plant at The Runaways’ Starwood show, West Hollywood, September 13, 1976. | © Barry Schultz/1stDibs

Robert Plant and Cherie Currie.

Robert Plant and Kim Fowley.

"Well-adjusted young women generally speaking wouldn't tend to hang around rock musicians hoping they'll be picked to give them a blow job, but an emotionally disturbed teenager would probably feel like she hit the jackpot."

by Anonymous reply 110 January 14, 2016 4:34 PM

"I knew girls in HS in the eighties who went after older guys - the most extreme I recall was a 15 year old girl sleeping with the driver of the school bus, he must have been in his thirties. But all the girls who did that came from broken homes or they never knew their dad. One girl's dad had died in a plane crash when she was really young and she was dating a 25 year old creep when she was 14 or 15. The girls from stable homes crushed on pop stars and wanted to date the boys in their year or the boy next door. They didn't want to start fucking till 17, 18."

by Anonymous reply 129 January 14, 2016 8:47 PM

"Underage boys and girls aren't physically or emotionally ready for sex on adult terms, which is why there are statutory rape laws. I understand how musicians on tour get a taste for fucking their little fans, since that's what's available to them for free. Also because any adult woman with sense would look for better options than clap-ridden** druggie monomaniacs with a recording contract."

by Anonymous reply 137 January 14, 2016 9:50 PM

"Still a lot of ignorance here. The defenders of these disgusting celeb adult rockers are idiots. Lori Maddox says in 1 of her interviews that Jimmy Page basically "kidnapped" (she uses that word) her the first time they met. She initially turned him down but he had his people physically put her into the car/limo. She said he said to her "I told you you were going to be with me". She only "fell in love" with him after their first night together. She was 15. They were together for a while and he even asked her mother for permission because he was worried about getting in trouble with the law. Lori said he "broke her heart" 1 night when she walked into their hotel room and he was in bed with Bebe Buell (the groupie who gave birth to Liv Tyler). Clearly to Lori, it wasn't just "casual sex" with Jimmy Page. She thought they were an exclusive couple. That shows that she wasn't emotionally mature enough for the situation she was in.

How can anyone argue that underage teens back then were so mature? That's complete bullshit. The fact of the matter is that these adult male celebs liked the idea of being in control and being worshiped. Teens like Lori gave them what they craved and had no idea that they were just used as sex objects. It's also very clear looking at her pics from back then that she was clearly underage. She certainly didn't look anywhere near 18

The way Lori continues to glorify her experiences from back then is really sad and embarrassing.***

BTW for the poster who asked, Lori said in an interview that she 'has a job in fashion' whatever that means."

by Anonymous reply 142 January 14, 2016 10:17 PM

"'Lori said in an interview that she 'has a job in fashion' whatever that means.'

It means she worked in a vintage clothing store on Melrose"

by Anonymous reply 147 January 14, 2016 11:23 PM

"R138, I've always thought it was interesting that there were never any famous or accomplished women linked to any of the Zep guys in their heyday, unlike the Stones or even the Beatles. It was all young groupies and bottomfeeder types. Easier to control, and to leave, I guess.

Pamela Des Barres and Bebe Buell have both expressed distaste for the baby groupie phenomenon, with Pamela intimating that a number of them, including Lori, were out there trying to snag a rock star at the behest of 'older women' - in Lori's case, her mom. In other words, they were essentially being pimped out."

by Anonymous reply 155 January 15, 2016 7:49 AM

"'unlike the Stones'

Mick and Keith are the only ones who chose women with some intellect : Faithful, Pallenberg, Bianca.

Bill dated a 13 year old Mandy Smith. Smith herself confirmed publicly that she was 14 when they first had sex, and her older sister had called for him to be prosecuted.

He married her when she was 18. He was 49." Offsite Link http://ultimateclassicrock.com/files/2014/06/WeddingFull.jpg

by Anonymous reply 158 January 15, 2016 9:41 AM

"Wow, that article says Mandy's 51 year old mother had a relationship with Wyman's son who was 24 at the time. It didn't say when the relationship started but it lasted until 1994. And Mandy has been celibate since 2002. I guess you could say that relationship affected her greatly. Sad."

by Anonymous reply 160 January 15, 2016 10:39 AM

To those of you unfamiliar with Datalounge, it's predominantly a gay forum, though there are lesbians and straight people who post on there as well. The words cunt and whore are used liberally on the site, for both men and women. I'm not condoning it. I'm just giving a heads up to anyone reading this who decides to visit the site. There's also a troll comment in the above thread about Jimmy and an alleged "cover up." Just ignore it.

Bebe Buell, Jimmy Page, and Lori Mattix at the Swan Song Party in 1974. | © Neil Zlozower

Users on the English site Mumsnet have made similar comments to the Datalounge ones posted above:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4148077-To-have-just-discovered-Led-Zeppelin-and?page=12

OhWhyNot · 01/02/2021 10:24

"It was certainly acceptable to sexualise 15 year olds for many

But it wasn’t acceptable for adults to be having sex with 13 years olds like Bowie and Page did they certainly were not sharing this as public knowledge it was then and is now rape and not acceptable

David Bowie and Robert Page are no different to Bill Wyman just considered cooler all are rapists of underage girls (along with a number of others)"

KathleenTurnerOverdrive · 01/02/2021 11:11

"'Teenage girls threw themselves at those guys, they’d have run a mile from someone fitting your description.'

And yet again, they were children who could not give consent and were sexually abused by an adult. 13 year olds were not considered fair game morally or legally not now not in 1971."

OhWhyNot · 01/02/2021 11:31

"It wouldn’t have been acceptable for any men above 20 in my family to be having a sexual relationship with a child under 16 In the 60’s 70’s or 80’s

We all knew girls with older boyfriends mostly it was kept quiet but disapproved of in gossip

To sexualise underage teenagers is one thing (thankfully less acceptable) it’s not the same as actually having a sexual relationship with them which is actually rape. It may not have been viewed as rape but the majority would have seen it as being inappropriate (though many would have still blamed the girls for tempting the weak men)

My friends were throwing themselves at Bros, young girls will be following whoever is famous now dreaming that they will be their girlfriends and that they will fall in love with them it’s always happened always will but what excuse is that for a man to take advantage and abuse or rape a child

Is it just a coincidence that these girls didn’t have protective families around them, just like the girls in my school that were targeted by predatory teachers no of course not they pick their victims"

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4870401-teenage-girls-dating-older-guys-is-this-now-less-of-an-issue-than-in-the-90s

TonTonMacoute · 12/08/2023 16:38

"I guess I’m older than many of you but I don’t think there has ever been a time when most people would have thought this was acceptable. I would certainly have thought there was something very wrong about a 30 year old guy dating a teenager.

If any of you are old enough to remember Bill Wyman marrying 17 year old Mandy Smith you will know there was widespread concern.

Unfortunately teenage girls are not always open to wise words and advice from concerned adults!"

brassbuttons · 12/08/2023 16:44

"@TonTonMacoute Yes I remember the Mandy Smith Bill Wyman thing and I did think she was crazy as Wyman was a old man! I also used to read loads of rock biographies from the 60s and 70s and read about all the groupies bands like Led Zeppelin had who were often underage and I thought these girls were very cool and wished I could have been living in LA to meet these bands, I used to be like Oh I'm so sad that I'm too young for Jimmy Page to fall in love with me when I was probably the perfect age for that creep! I think I read recently that some of those groupies from the 70s had only just recently in the wake of me too started to reassess their relationships with these older musicians."

Jimmy Page and Lori Mattix, circa 1972. | Source: Vintag.es

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 12/08/2023 16:46

TonTonMacoute · 12/08/2023 16:38

"I agree! I think it was more common back in the day, but I don't think it was ever widely viewed as "acceptable", even back then!"

CrazyArmadilloLady · 12/08/2023 22:02

"I also think the kids who are doing the so-called ‘cool’ / grown-up things, assume everyone thinks like them. E.g. they think everyone thinks being picked up by an older guy in a car has ‘kudos’.

But not everyone does think that carries any sort of cachet.

That sort of thing can be viewed by others through a range of emotions, from yes, envy, through to pity or bemused amusement.

As mentioned above, lots of young girls / women fully recognise from the outset that men who target much younger partners are a bit (to put it kindly) lacking."

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I discussed this with a woman in my family, who is only one year younger than Robert Plant. She denied that adults having sex with young teens was generally acceptable in the 60s and 70s. She said, "People treat certain things as being normal back then, but they weren't. There are so many myths about the 60s and 70s. People talk about us like we all had long hair, we were all hippies and took LSD. We did get married at a younger age back then." (She got married at 19 to another 19-year-old.) In a scathing tone, she added, "You didn't hear about these activities (adults sleeping with young teens)."

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Martin Amis was an English author who was of the same generation as the former members of Led Zeppelin (born in 1949). In 1979, he interviewed Roman Polanski. Amis rightly condemned Polanski's mindset and behavior regarding adolescent girls at the time.

https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/2722570-martin-amis-interviews-roman-polanski

"Looking 16, of course, does not entitle you to go to bed with adolescents. Despite what Polanski says – contra Polanski – not everyone wants to fuck young girls. One cannot hide behind a false universality: one cannot seek safety in numbers. Most people who do want to fuck young girls, moreover, don't fuck young girls. Not fucking apparently willing young girls is clearly more of a challenge. But even Humbert Humbert realised that young girls don't really know whether they are willing or not. The active paedophile is stealing childhoods. Polanski, you sense, has never even tried to understand this."

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Also, Jimmy seems to receive nearly all of the criticism for having relations with underage girls in the past, but all of the members of Led Zeppelin are guilty of this.

The following quotation is from the Led Zeppelin Oral History book by Barney Hoskyns, p. 230:

"I'd be on the road with Hawkwind or whoever, writing for the NME, and Zeppelin would be there. And the whole place would be full of the stinkiest fucking groupies. There was something very unclean about the whole deal. Rod and the faces sort of kicked it off, but it went to some kind of zenith with Zeppelin. Moon actually blew up hotel rooms, but with Zeppelin it just seemed to be running in semen and beer and unpleasantness and old Tampaxes. They were number one on the groupie target roster, and Rodney Bingenheimer would be pandering to them as they sat in the back of his cupboard-sized discotheque getting their dicks sucked by thirteen-year-olds under the table."

-Mick Farren (singer with the Deviants and writer for New Musical Express)

That's an eyewitness account of the four members of Led Zeppelin engaging in sexual activity with underage girls, girls as young as 13. Oral sex is sex. There also should be no doubt that all four members of Zeppelin had other types of sex with underage girls as well.

Robert Plant (left) and Jimmy Page. | © Ian Dickson/Getty Images

This is a comment that was posted under this article: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/sep/06/stairway-to-heaven-led-zeppelin

"Sorry folks, I grew up in the L.A. area, and was 12-13 when Rodney's opened up, and there were more than one 12-13-14 year girl hooking up with Led Zepp, or other musicians in Rodneys,the Rainbow,etc. To be fair, these girls wore a ton more makeup, and could pass for 20-25 easy. Some felt it was no big deal to have sex with guys 10 years older then them,some wanted to get into Rock Scene magazine,or the other rock magazines that ran features on groupies,just like girls want to be on reality tv.One of my classmates even got a screen test for a film out of hanging out/putting out in the Hyatt House. My parents never would have let me go there, that's for sure. As for the music, I still preferred Hendrix…"

Note that Rodney's English Disco was in business from October 1972 to December 1975, when the youngest members of Zeppelin were in their mid to late 20s.

In the November 1973 interview, Rodney’s: Dali’s Holograph of Alice Cooper Could Not Be More Bizarre Than Rodney Bingenheimer’s English Disco, Richard Cromelin reported, “if you’re 18 you’re over the hill.” “Under-age groupies flocked around visiting British bands.”

Robert Plant is supposedly Sable Starr's favorite of the musicians she's been with, though I can't find a direct quote of her stating this:

"During her prime, she had associated herself with some of the biggest musicians in the industry. Claiming to have had encounters with the likes of Alice Cooper, Jeff Beck, Marc Bolan, Mick Jagger, and Jimmy Page. But it was Led Zeppelin’s frontman Robert Plant who was apparently her favorite."

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/31975351-warren-beatty-j-accuse!

"Morgana Welch, a common looking blond who was part of the 'baby groupie' LA scene, also fucked Led Zeppelin and other rockers. Morgana said she regrets not being wilder and fucking more famous men. What a claim to fame. Is that an actual ambition?

"There are photos of Morgana fucking Brit rocker Roy Harper included in his book, you don't see her face, but she has verified it was her."**** by Anonymous reply 372 February 14, 2023 10:19 PM

Morgana's stories of having sex with Robert Plant and John Paul Jones have been shared on here.

Sable Starr is on Robert Plant’s right, the two girls on Robert’s left are Tyla and Morgana Welch, John Bonham and Lori Mattix are in the far right of the picture, and Jimmy Page is in the background, in Rodney Bingenheimer’s English Disco, 1972. | Michael Ochs Archives/Getty Images

I've seen posters on here treat the fact that Robert had sex with young teen girls or "banged anything he could get his hands on - regardless of age" in the early years of Zep as no big deal because he was in his early 20s. That doesn't excuse it and it still would've been considered inappropriate in the 60s and 70s, as Mumsnet poster OhWhyNot pointed out in one of her comments quoted above. Men that age (21+) being with girls that young (12-15) wasn't generally seen as okay, even back then.

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People have shared that Jimmy continued to pursue & have sex with underage girls well past the 70s.

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/16752239-my-aunt-fucked-eric-clapton-in-the-70s-and-other-stories-and-gossip

"Oh and this is actually tea from me for once. Jimmy Page is a pedophile (shocking!). Up until the late 90s he still had a posse of underage (think 13-16) year old girls hanging around him. People try to play off his 70s creepiness (baby groupies, Lori Mattix etc.) with it being normal but my mom was pretty adamant that any sensible person looked at a 30 y.o. and a 14 y.o. having a relationship with disgust. Their sycophants and hanger-ons, all the people who were in these tools private circles, put them up on a pedestal."

by Anonymous reply 54 April 13, 2016 10:07 PM

"No surprise about Page. I think that's pretty well-known. - maybe it isn't here."

by Anonymous reply 57 April 13, 2016 10:36 PM

"R57 I know it's well known on here at least but quite a few people on here think Page's involvement with young girls stopped when the 70s ended or when his daughter reached her preteens. Not true." by Anonymous reply 65 April 13, 2016 11:11 PM

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/page-plant-90s-reunion.1165682/page-9

"I thought the '95 tour was overwrought and Jimmy appeared to be in rough shape, being propped up by two other the guitarists. They also had the Egyptian players and a string section. A friend of mine's sister played violin in the latter and described Page as being drunk, a lot, and trying to pick up underage girls in the hotel bars where they stayed. They apparently thought he was 'gross' and were usually there to keep company with the younger openers.

Three years later they came back with the "'Clarksdale" tour. Four players plus Plant, a bright eyed brilliant Page played the only guitar. I was fortunate enough to have very close seats and I watched him play things with his two hands (and a foot pedal) that I swore had to be the result of studio trickery on the record. It was amazing and changed my opinion of the guy ever after. While the Page I witnessed had obviously cleaned up is act I heard he slipped later in the tour. Nonetheless it was great. They were almost Led Zep and played Zep songs that Led Zeppelin never played."

-rrbbkk, Jan 25, 2023 #203

Jimmy Page, aged 50, 1994. | © Mick Hutson/Getty Images

It doesn't seem like Robert ceased his sexual activities with underage girls after the 70s ended, either.

https://tenyearsgone.blog/2024/03/02/spin-09-1993-last-of-the-red-hot-rock-stars/

"(Robert) shared a wad of chewing gum with a 22-year-old, en route to a modeling job in Zurich, who claims to have known assorted members of the entourage more or less intimately since the age of 14 (and who, in the Interests of all involved, will hereby be referred to as Ms. Colorado);"

A 22-year-old in 1993 would've been 14 in 1985, and Robert was on tour that year. Since Robert was the only star in the band he was touring with then and the two were comfortable sharing a piece of gum together, I think we can safely assume Robert was one of the members of the entourage she was intimate with when she was 14. I don't believe for a second that the end of the 1970s was the end of Robert having sex with underage girls.

Robert Plant performing on his Shaken 'N' Stirred tour in 1985.

Another take/defense on this adults having sex with minors topic I've read on here is that it's not an issue because "teens/17-year-olds have sex, and they loved the person they were with." Of course there are teens 17 and younger who have sex. When it's with people their own age, it's fine. It's not fine for minors to be having sex with adults. Adults having sex with 16 or 17-year-olds may be legal in countries such as England, but just because something is legal doesn't make it right. The comment below from a Brit acknowledges this:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/4403955-Grooming-by-Famous-Men

MistandMud · 17/11/2021 13:22

"More than half of those relationships (all those with girls 16 and up) would be legal in the UK, though grim as fuck because of the power imbalance."

There has been a debate over raising the age of consent in England for this very reason:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66872467 "There's a reasonable argument [that] individuals between the ages of 16 and 18 can have relations with people within that same age bracket," she told BBC Women's Hour. "You're allowed to make mistakes as a teenager, they should be with other people your own age."

People who were taken advantage of by adults when they were minors can remain very attached to said adults, and are sometimes never able to get over them. They may even remain in a relationship with them/marry & have a family with them. However, that doesn't justify it.

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Obviously, matters such as statutory rape and grooming are taken more seriously now than they were in the 70s. The consequences are more severe. There's appropriately more recognition that underage girls in such cases are victims, not seducers, "fast," girls who "got what they wanted," or "knew what they were doing."

That said, adults having sex with young teens was still not accepted by society at large in the 60s or 70s. When Jimmy says things like this in interviews, he's just trying to cover himself:

"Now that his friend and fellow rock star Roy Harper has been accused of historic sex offences against one young woman (he has pleaded not guilty), and police are putting the spotlight on the behaviour of Seventies entertainers, is Page worried?

‘With due respect, I don’t want to comment on it,’ he says. ‘It was a lifestyle in the Seventies. There’s a lot of water under the bridge for everyone who survived that era. End of story.’"

Roy Harper and Jimmy Page at the Valentine Concert in Finsbury Park, London, February 14, 1974. | © Colin Curwood

Bill Wyman, Roy Harper, and Robert Plant at the Swan Song launch party in New York, May 7, 1974. | Source: Pinterest

I do believe (perhaps naively) that all of the surviving members of Led Zeppelin have modified their behavior for the better and are different people now. It's also quite possible they (Hopefully!) feel genuine remorse for many of the things they did in their past. Robert himself has admitted he has "a very hefty book of maudlin apologies and guilt," and "frailties you know you're carrying with you quietly." The intent of this post is not to rally for these guys to be 'canceled,' nor to scold anyone for being Zep fans.

However, it's untrue that adult men having sexual encounters with underage girls was just par for the course during the 70s. It was mostly seen as unacceptable and inappropriate back then. Therefore, that the LZ band members (and other entertainers) were having sex with and dating young teens was bad, even by the standards of the 60s and 70s.

As for the topic of judging those from the past by today's standards, I'm with Charlotte Riley on this one, "It is completely appropriate to critique those figures from the past whose morals fall short of our own values, as well as celebrating those who questioned, critiqued or resisted the systems and beliefs of their time."

*As an aside, Joni Mitchell is racist, anti-feminist (Jian Ghomeshi & '73 Marom interviews) & not that smart.

https://madamenoire.com/510752/joni-mitchell-need-stop-calling-white-people-disturbing-things-eccentric/

**Robert admitted in a 1988 interview with Melody Maker that, "I had the clap so many times years ago that I was almost immune to penicillin, and in music, subsequently, I’d ‘oooohed’ and ‘babyed’ so many times I couldn’t do it any more." He's made similar remarks over the years about needing penicillin and being immune to it.

***Lori no longer glorifies her groupie days:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/led-zeppelins-controversial-legacy-thievery-underage-groupies-and-the-mud-shark-incident

"Alongside stories involving Mick Jagger and Rod Stewart, Mattix would reveal that David Bowie slept with her when she was 14, and after Jimmy Page saw her at a show, he had his bodyguard “kidnap” her. She told The Guardian last year that #MeToo led to her reconsidering how she’d viewed her time with Page and other rock stars in the 1970s.

'I don’t think underage girls should sleep with guys. I wouldn’t want this for anybody’s daughter. My perspective is changing as I get older and more cynical.'"

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/31975351-warren-beatty-j-accuse!

"Lori's mom spoke to Jimmy Page, she assured him it was OK to 'date' her underage daughter. Page, at 30, sure knew what he was doing was wrong and that he could have served jail time. Because of that, Lori was never seen with him other than in photos where they posed at parties. They never left a hotel together, were never shown on a plane together etc. Lori was hidden from view. Lori was always escorted by someone else in his entourage, such as one of Page's female publicists.

Years later, Lori admitted they had little to talk about. You think? Also, years later, when Page reconnected with Lori, he told her, 'We were babies back then.' Lori said, 'Well, one of us was!' Seems Lori has sure changed her tune, she now says it's not a good idea for young teen females to fuck much older men." by Anonymous reply 370 February 14, 2023 5:56 PM

**** Morgana Welch said in an interview with Punk Globe, "I was thrilled when Roy wrote me a note that he had published a book of photos and lyrics called ‘Roy Harper, The Passions of Great Fortune, The Songs Explored’ and that he would like to send me a copy. I had remembered the time when I was with him at the Hyatt House when he was with Led Zeppelin and as we were making love the band broke down the door and walked in on us. Robert Plant picked up Roy’s camera and took pictures of us in bed. I had wondered for years if that photo survived. So when I opened this big beautiful book in the section with Led Zeppelin there are two pictures of us in bed. I was thrilled to see the pics."

[tea-and-secrets]

When I was younger, like 12-13 or so, I was in a "tulpamancy" forum. Basically the idea is using meditation and self hypnosis to create a kind fully sentient imaginary friend. I was a deeply lonely kid and the idea of having an internal friend who wouldn't leave me was very appealing, so I tried and tried for months, but it just didn't work. It was so frustrating it would almost make my break down sometimes, but people on the forum would just tell me I was doing it wrong, even though I was following their instructions exactly. Eventually I just… lied and said it worked. I had so much invested in it. I was so convinced it was just me messing up somehow. So I bullshitted about my great new friend, how eventually it just worked, how happy I was that I kept trying, so on so forth. I found myself even beginning to do the same almost shaming of people who said it didn't work for them. I wanted it to work SO BAD it hurt to hear anyone contradict that.

Basically by sheer luck circumstances forced me to leave the forum and put all that behind me for a few years. And when I looked back and read some of the messages and posts… I', pretty sure I wasn't the only one faking. A LOT of it reads as 13 year old boys bragging about how Fluttershy is their girlfriend now and guys you won't believe how cool and hot she is really I swear guys. Was any of it legit? I don't know. I'm doubtful at this point. But I'm happy I didn't get stuck there for too long.

.

[fuckthemforthis]

Maribor recap or long rambling, some pics and trying to make sense in my head:

1. Thank you @chibi-chellist again for reaching out, it meant a lot not to be alone! Rambling about the boys is so much better in person and when it's not one-sided. I enjoyed meeting you and sharing experiences! 💕

2. Kaj pa Ester? is one of the cringiest things I've recently seen, especially dialog wise haha BUT it is also funny and kinda cute. Very teenage-y I guess, with too much lots of kissing and parties for which scenes they used some terrible modern cajke music (like use the good old soul ripping ones that don't mention Elon Musk... teenagers today smh). Anyway, I wouldn't mind it being longer and better developed in the emotional areas which you see they scratched but need deepening to give an actual sense of plot and sense to the movie. Could be due to the fact it was supposed to be a show first tho. However, I couldn't see Bojan's personality, mannerisms or gestures so in that sense I feel he did a great job acting 👏

And THE SCENE. Oh boy. Less sad and more frustrated bojerking. Putting shame aside to admit I would love to have it available on demand, especially for some ragged breathing appreciation...

3. Bought and tried Jan's fav cookies, yaay! They're really soft and don't crumble so I approve and will enjoy. I'm sure sentimental reasons are definitely a big part of why he named them as favorite and when I think about it they really suit him but there are better Slovenian cookies like almost any from Težak bakery in Zreče.

4. Half the venue were teenagers or parents with anything between 4 to 12 year olds. I was surrounded. And since I sat a few rows above the backstage entrance, kids all tried reaching for them as they were going off stage and among all the girls there was an 8 (?) year old boy who reached out and Bojan gave him a high-five... and lemme tell you I very much dislike kids but the way that boy turned and excitedly smiled melted my icy heart.

5. Third concert of theirs, third time on Jan's side. And I think Kris somehow knows & takes revenge by not singing NGVOT whenever I'm in the audience 😔

Well Krisko, princess dear, no photos of you 😝

6. Found it adorable how as ASTP was starting, Nace went to drink some water, took his bottle and clinked it against Jure's 🥂

7. Love that Maks was there again, I like the guy. At some point during the concert he was leaning on the fence above me taking pics and I missed half a song watching him work 🙈

8. As I was behind the loudspeakers, I heard Bojan's singing fine, but talking barely because it was often too distorted. What I did hear was him saying we came there for a workout to burn all the cookie calories from the last few days... and boy are you on the wrong track because I came back home with four different packs of cookies 🍪

9. Band dad Niko's daughter was with him watching the concert from next to the stage and he danced with her and it was adorable. The existence of good dads baffles my poor unloved ass...

10. We all know how in the setlist there's a connection between Padam and Demoni because Bojan even sometimes said "and when we fall they come", but I realised the chain starts with Dopamin. First you get a dopamine rush and feel like flying but soon you experience a crash because your body used up all the good stuff and then comes the falling and the demons (and then you go back to someone so the demons would go away but that someone just plays you again - if I wanna extend it to Katrina). Yes it's kind of a concert - post concert sadness - concert rinse&repeat metaphor

11. Janči had problems with his pedalboard for the first two or three songs, he and Kiki spent minutes fiddling with it trying to get it to work. Poor guy can't catch a break.

12. So yeah, the last point is based on Jan being sick, but it's actually about the main reason I like them so much - the connection, love and care they share.

I realised Jan wasn't okay during the concert so Bojan just confirmed it for me. He obviously still slayed, and he went to play at the front a lot, but there were telling moments.

A) When Bojan came to Jan at one point and rubbed his back in a very non performative way, squeezing at his shoulder and whispering something.

B) When Jan plopped down during Padam I thought "not when he usually goes down, is he okay?" and then Bojan leaned down to stroke his hair.

C) The most telling of all, when he sat down during Umazane misli. I kept looking at him, ignoring the left-front-right karaoke. He looked so tired and off, put his head in his hands and then Kiki gave him a bottle of water. When Nace turned around and noticed him like that, he smiled encouragingly and told him it's okay three times (yep they were close enough to read lips) and that's when I was 100% sure something was wrong and he was either feeling off emotionally or sick. He then got up, went to the front, played his ass off and only when he was walking back was it visable again for a moment how empty his expression was.

D) Jure coming to comfort him and cheer him up as soon as he could lift his ass away from those drums, leading him to the front where in the end Jan turned out to be the one stroking Nace's back in a "yeah it's okay" kinda way

E) As they were leaving for the final time, someone gave Jan a wrapped present he looked actually happy about and he threw back a pick but it fell where the person couldn't reach so Nace took over making sure the person gets it.

That's it. They are all utterly beautiful. And anyone who knows me, knows I use that word to describe people first and foremost on the inside. Beautiful.

[lycankeyy]

Old art that was in a doodle compilation from when this fixation STARTED okay. Listen. So the Deal is w Darnell in funkycule I have Established that Darnell Plays with Fire was a class presentation, particularly a Completely Unironic one for like a public speaking class or something. This happens like 1-ish year before PS, like at least in the previous school year, when he's 12.

AFTER this, Darnell gets put into a program for troubled kids, one that is notably Not Good (mostly operates based on shaming the kids, lots of these programs are like this) and instead of like actually helping with his pyromania or low empathy or anything useful, he's just kind of repeatedly told This Is Bad Don't Do That. Which obviously does jack shit for him except making him grow up with the notion that he is innately Bad because there is Something Wrong With Him and there's Nothing To Be Done About It, all this juxtaposed with the fact that he is according to everyone Extremely Smart and also Very Nice. And obviously being a Smart and Nice kid he doesn't Want to be bad so he tries to be "good" but nobody gives him any sense of direction on this. Just like aimlessly attempting to be a decent person while having absolutely no coping strategies for his actual problems so he's constantly lapsing back into firesetting and violence. And *shakes you

Anyway further context for the art is that bf's family moved into the district specifically because of the therapy program bc he's nonverbal and bad at school and gets in fights a lot. So him and Darnell actually met first, Darnell later introduced BF to Pico. The therapy group would take time out of certain school days which is why they weren't present during PS, and the group was dissolved after PS to improve attendance at the school, which is the other half of the reason BF's family was so quick to move. Also the "Darnell has 5 years to live" thing was an inside joke he came up with when people picked on him for being gone from school a lot, he convinced them it was actually because he was dying LMFAO

[ardent-heretic]

Ruhh rohh!

We live near the town’s sports fields. There is also a playground. My kids walk over without me all the time. It is about 1 mile from my house.

Today someone posted on the book of Face. Asking about a man who sits in an SUV and watches the girls play. They say, I wanna hope this guy is legit but he gives off bad vibes.

In the comments one woman called the cops who talked to him and he left for staring at her girls. But then another person posts “This same guy was showing up and watching my daughter’s team play every week. We called the cops. THIS WAS 12 YEARS AGO!”

There are other comments voicing concern about the same dude. Lots of staring at young girls incidents.

So he sounds like a Pedo Pervert.

Cops can’t really do much because he hasn’t technically broke any rules. Sitting in your car during a sporting event isn’t exactly a crime.

I showed both my kids his face, vehicle, license plate. And I told them to steer clear and keep an eye out for him.

But I really don’t like this.

In Chicago, we would pull this guy out of the car, beat his ass, and tell him we better not see him again. I could tell you stories. We made people move out of state for their own best interest.

Here, people are docile. My Wife jokes I am the biggest threat in this town. But I am retired, full of sunshine and smiles.

The old me wants to go to the softball games this weekend, park, watch him, and follow him home. If I were to somehow obtain his address I am pretty fucking sure I could convince him to pick up a new hobby. His vehicle is easy to spot. It has multiple flags flying off it. It wouldn’t take me long to locate him. I have his photos saved in my camera roll from Book of Face.

And as they say, most accidents and injuries occur around the household. It would be a real shame if something happened to this guy. I think I need to put my greeter in the back of my car…

For reasons.

[le-panda-chocovore]

Siblings Karushuu Headcanon

They're both huge liars who don't like detailing their family history, so they decide to mess with people. When people find out they're brothers, they always assume they're twins since they're in the same grade. But then someone point out that they don't share the same birthday, so the maths boys come up with a different story each time to justify that :

- Karma had a health condition who forced the doctors to deliver him early and operate him, but they let Gakushuu in their mother's belly because he was doing fine. He was born naturally a week later. (People usually have a hard time believing this is possible but they both provide enough -fake- medical details to convince them)

- They're actual twins, born at Christmas, but after the divorce Asano Senior decided to change Gakushuu's birthday to distance him from his brother (the divorce was THAT messy). He somehow managed to modify the date on official papers, even Gakushuu's birth certificate. No one knows how. (People usually believe this one very easily since it's clearly something the chairman would do)

- They're twins and they are NOT born at any of these date. They're born the 29th of February but were both pissed that their birthday only come up every 4 years and also hated sharing their birthday because they both wanted to do it very differently. So their parents offered them to choose a different date so they can celevrate it separately. Gakushuu chose January 1st 'cause he's a petty pretentious prick who loves being Number One. However Karma is equally petty so he chose December 25th because he is "an actual gift" and "a symbol of love." Which is stupid because they were both desired, they're twins !!! (People watch them argue about that for 15 minutes and it's so realistic that they accept this explanation with no more questions)

- Karma's adopted which is why he doesn't look like the Chairman. "At least I know I was wanted" Karma adds, which makes Gakushuu rolls his eyes and rants about the circumstances of his own birth. Why would the couple adopt the red gremlin though, is the question that no one can answer ("Because they were tired of you and wanted a better son," Karma says to his brother, who hits him as a response.) Yes they adopt in December and they celebrate him at Chrismas because he is their parents' gift as much as this family was his gift ("You're re-using the same lie," Gakushuu tells him later when they were alone. "Because it's a good one, I like it," Karma answers with a smirk.)

- They're actually both adopted, two years apart, their birthday correspond to the date the papers were signed. The fact that Gakushuu is Gakuhou's physical copy is a total coincidence.

- Karma is the oldest but he spent a year in a comas so when he finally got out of the hospital they put him in the same grade as Gakushuu. ("Why do I always have a health problem," Karma complained later. "Do you want me to be sick so bad ?" - "That's because you're weak," Gakushuu says with his usual arrogant look, "and because you always make me the unwanted kid.")

- Asano Senior cheated on Gakushuu's mother but the two women got pregnant at the same time and gave birth at the same time. (Karma finds this one cliche and boring as hell so they never re-used it. He wanted to say that Gakushuu's mom left Gakuhou to date HIS mom since they bonded over the Asano Asshole, but Gakushuu stopped him, saying that it was too messy. Karma still thinks this is an amazing idea and waits for an occasion to use that one.)

- Asano Senior cheated on Gakushuu's mother, but after Gakushuu's birth, which means that Karma is 12 months younger. Gakushuu rants about what an asshole the man is for leaving his three months old baby to go to another woman's bed, just because the wife he married was to tired to have sex with him. "Maybe she would be so fucking exhausted if he had made the effort of taking care of his own fucking son," he says. Karma claims being a symbol of Shame, Disappointment, Disrespect and Infidelity, which is why he is the way he is. (People are fascinated by Gakushuu's angry voice and how much he can trashtalk about his dad. Karma finds the acting hilarious)

- They're not blood related, their parents got married when the boys were 8 but Karma's mom kept her last name and so did he. (People are then very confused about why they don't live together, so the two of them are now thinking about how to improve this story.)

The concept is very simple : the first one to answer gets to decide which story they'd tell, and the other has to follow and adds a few details. They both love this game. Karma is a pretty good liar but people expect him to lie so they don't trust him at first, but Gakushuu's poker face is insane and he always affirms whatever Karma is saying, which makes their stories believable. Sometimes when they're bored and alone they talk about what new scenario they could use to mess with people. Gakushuu has way more imagination than he looks like. Karma wouldn't say it out loud but he loves this part of his brother.

At some point two groups who got different stories talked together about the siblings and realized that they were told completely different things. To this day they still haven't found out what is true and what is not.

[thirteens-earring]

Jane Schoenbrun, from Episode 174 of the Gender Reveal podcast (episode) (episode transcript)

[ Tuck: Yeah. And somehow that brings me to Limp Bizkit. Because I think it’s so funny that you created this incredible soundtrack with like every iconic girlie, and then in the movie itself you know Sloppy Jane’s in the movie, King Woman’s in the movie, Lindsey from Snail Mail is acting in the movie, and then…Fred Durst is there. [Jane laughs.] Can you talk about why you wanted to work with him specifically, and what that experience was like of bringing him into the movie?

Jane: Yeah. So the first thing to say is that when I was 12, I loved Limp Bizkit, because it was 1999, and I was vaguely pissed off at a thing that I couldn’t quite put my finger on, right? And I think that nu metal thing was very appealing to me, in that — Limp Bizkit less, but a band like Korn or Slipknot — Slipknot is donning masks, and actively appropriating just the sort of iconography of the horror movie and grotesquerie to describe their internal feelings. And Korn is talking about how they’re a “Freak on a Leash.” And it’s this pre-Columbine, right before Columbine moment where I don’t think culturally we had like zeroed in on that necessarily (or at least I hadn’t at 12 years old) as a symptom of this growing nascent white male anger. It felt more like they were carrying the torch of the weirdo; I think that was sort of the appeal of a lot of that nu metal music when it first came out, was like I’m a “Freak on a Leash.” I think Limp Bizkit was a little different, because they certainly cast themselves as the underdog, but they didn’t necessarily cast themselves as “a freak,” you know? It was more of a pissed off, like Kid Rock style — I’m young, I’m white, I’m angry, have sex with me. [Tuck and Jane laugh] But I didn’t understand all of that, and I was 12 in the suburbs, and that was what a lot of money was being spent to convince me to buy, and I bought it, and I loved it, and I had that Family Values ’99 tour tape cassette, and I listened to it. And when I got bar mitzvahed, my bar mitzvah gift was a CD case — remember those little things you would keep in your car to keep CDs in?

Tuck: Yeah, definitely.

Jane: We got custom “Jane’s Bar Mitzvah” CD booklets [Tuck laughs], and it had Limp Bizkit drawings on the cover. So if you have one of those, that’s a collectors item now. [Tuck and Jane laugh]

Tuck: That rules.

Jane: After I wrote TV Glow, and just spending a lot of time unpacking my childhood and my adolescence in the suburbs and just feelings of alienation, I had written this character — hardly a character, more like this spectre of the anger of a dad who looks at you in the way that I have experienced, where it’s like…are you looking at me as your child, or are you looking at me as a person who has robbed you of your child? And this is very much a trans horror. I got notes early on like “let’s flesh out this dad, where does that come from?” And I was like “no actually, I don’t really care about that.” This is a movie about that gaze and that disapproval, and the way something as innocuous as saying, like, “isn’t that TV show you love and are finding refuge in for girls?” can steal decades of your life from you, because of the shame and fear that it ingrains in you. And so the question then became: who is glaring at us? And it wasn’t just like “oh Fred, get on a casting call and do your best glare.” It was that it means something to see Fred Durst glare at you. Fred is a fascinating and wonderful and generous person. I took Dave McCary (my executive producer) to see Limp Bizkit with me at Madison Square Garden as we were prepping, and as I was basically like “please let me cast Fred Durst as Owen’s dad.” And we walk onto the floor of Madison Square Garden, and it’s like…white militia is the audience, I’d say. [Tuck laughs]

Tuck: Totally.

Jane: It’s a lot of, like, ex-Marine energy in the house, and a lot of the energy that was being cultivated at that show was, let’s say, riling up the audience in the way that you would at a wrestling match. There was such anger and aggression being let out — just people who were riled up getting their rocks off, or whatever. But it was also so homoerotic, and not even subtly homoerotic. Like people…the guy in front of me just kept screaming at Fred Durst on stage “I want to suck your dick!” [Tuck laughs] Yeah, I mean…good admission; [Tuck and Jane laugh] follow that impulse wherever it leads you…

Tuck: Totally.

Jane: …and get whatever you need to get out of your system — there’s a way. At one point early in the show, Dave turns to me and goes “do you ever feel, like, unsafe in public?” [Tuck and Jane laugh] And I was like…oh — this is how you teach cis people what it means to be trans, you take them to the Limp Bizkit show, and you have them stand next to the trans person. And I’m like “yes Dave, actually…and a lot more recently since my transition.” [Tuck and Jane laugh]

Tuck: OK — and what about this was like…I gotta get this man in my movie?

Jane: So then what happens…Dave is like, “you can stay if you want, but I’m actually gonna go before they play ‘Break Stuff.’” And we ran out of Madison Square Garden, and on the street Dave is like “do you still want to cast Fred Durst?” And I was like “yeah, more than ever!”

Tuck: Incredible.

Jane: And then I got on the phone with him a couple days later, and we were talking about French films within three or four minutes. He’s a gentle soul behind the scenes, with a great understanding of film and art. He’s a showman, and it happens to be that the audience that will come to his things at this point tend to be the kind of people who wanna scream that they want to suck his dick, in an arena that feels like it’s about to turn into a riot. I’m interested in the film being this intertextual thing of: what does it mean to see Fred Durst in this particular movie about this particular thing, and how does that spectre bloom both in our collective memories but still in the present tense? Which isn’t to say that it’s about Fred himself; it’s more about this white male rage that I found something in when I was 12 years old, but that has also been brewing and metastasizing since then in ways that I am very disturbed by. ]

[denied-indian-bimb0]

FAQ

(If you’ve been sent this post you’ve likely asked Alia a question already answered below so take a look before continuing the conversation :p)

I get asked a lot of the same questions so I’ve put together the main ones I can think of. I’m just posting it to my side blog to make it easier to find and because it’s a little long

Q 1. Where are you from?

A. England, London

Q 2. How old are you?

A. 25

Q 3. Your height?

A. 5’4

Q 4. Are you from India?

A. No, I was born and raised in the UK

Q 5. Do you like black/brown dick?

A. I like all races, this is just a kink

Q 6. Would you play with a woman to please a man?

A. I am pansexual, I would play with any gender with or without the request of a man

Q 7. Your kinks?

A. Kinks: iq reduction, bimbofication, intox play, begging, praise, slapping, choking, spit/drool, edging, manipulation, forced, corruption/coercion, belittling, conditioning, hypnosis, consensual blackmail, race play, age gap, light bondage, crying, gaslighting, toilet/pee play, cnc (kidnapping + Stockholm syndrome), breeding, orgasm control, ddlg, light pain play, puke play, sexual humiliation/degradation and misogyny

Q 8. Your limits?

A. Limits: being called a pig/related words, sounding, body shaming, actual racism/stereotyping, being negatively compared to others, scat, anything illegal, kids, incest/ anything that involves or mentions my family in any capacity

Q 9. Can I fuck you?

A. I don’t have sex too often but if you’re local and I like your personality there’s a slim slim chance

Q 10. Can you send me photos?

A. You can check #me if you’re looking for porn. If I’m feeling up to it I might send something on request but please try to be engaging

Q 11. Why do you take so long to reply?

A. Sometimes I’m busy or I don’t feel like being on here. I also get a high volume of messages so sometimes yours will get moved to the bottom or if it’s something that’s not engaging enough for me I might just leave it, please don’t do spam message me

Q 12. Do you think you’re inferior?

A. No this is a kink, it’s just fun to play on. I’m very secure and know my worth

Q 13. Do you like hypnosis?

A. Yes, I prefer audio files but yes I have tried text posts, otp, audios and gifs

Q 14. Are you working towards the bimbo aesthetic?

A. No, the idea is hot but I prefer the bimbo mindset. I would maybe try lip filler just to try it but I don’t feel a need to pump myself up, I’m quite happy with my features as is

Q 15. What toys do you have?

A. I have them all here: https://www.tumblr.com/denied-indian-bimbo/766511751798931456/i-had-some-people-asking-to-see-my-toys-so-here

Q 16. Where can I find you in case you get nuked?

A. My free to follow fansly is the best way. I can send videos there, message for free and all of my content plus extra stuff is all there in one place. It’s free to follow and you can click here for the free subscription 💓 my discord is indie_6251 but I’m really not on it much

Q 17. When did you last cum?

A. 19.05.2024 and I plan to go a year without an orgasm

Q 18. Can I show you my dick?

A. Only if you think it’s pretty, If I’m not feeling it I’ll likely ignore it lol. I’d much rather receive tiddies or audios of you moaning and touching yourself to me 🥰 I also really enjoy cum tributes

Q 19. What is your darkest fantasy?

A. What I like changes a lot, you can probably get a feel for what I’m currently into by looking at my most recent posts

Q 20. What’s your body count?

A. 9 if we’re counting rape, 7 if we’re not

Q 21. How did you lose your virginity?

A. I’ll link it here ( rape mention warning)

Q 22. How do you stop your posts from getting flagged?

A. Click here!

Q 23. How do you masturbate?

A. I like to rub my cunt or use a vibe. I can only edge/cum from clit stimulation

Q 24. What languages do you speak?

A. Only English fluently

[itsimaginetime]

So I've been seeing a lot of discourse lately about minors and smut. Is it ok for them to read it? To write it? Etc etc...

And so I wanted to share my own opinion and please, I would love to know your opinions as well (you can comment, reblog or anonymously send an ask to voice your opinion about the matter) and let's keep this respectful and civilized 💕

Alright so first things first, I myself wrote smut for the first time when I was 15 years old (I'm currently 18) and posted it on my insta account which didn't have my age on it and I was never asked to disclose my age on it either.

I've personally never seen anyone express their discontent with minors writing smut until this year. I'm sure I've just never come across it and it's actually been a big point of discussion for a long time and I was just never aware of that.

Now , before I go on and talk about things in more detail, let me say one thing:

‼️If you're uncomfortable with the fact that I used to be a minor who wrote smut then please, block me and move on with your life. I'm simply here to share my opinion ; as someone who has experienced being in the fanfiction community (as a reader first then later as a writer) since the age of like 11 or 12; freely and discuss this topic with people who are open to have a genuine conversation.‼️

With that out of the way, let's continue.

What's the situation all about?

To put it simply, a certain amount of writers are expressing their discomfort about minors reading their work and/or them reading smut written by minors and/or seeing minors writing smut and posting it.

(if you're one the people who doesn't like minors writing smut , can you please explain it in detail? I would love to hear your opinion and have you share it so that people can understand the situation from the p.o.v of someone who's directly affected by it)

How do I feel about minors reading/writing smut and posting it on the internet?

I feel complete and utter indifference towards this situation, that is why I feel like a neutral and unbiased opinion like my own is needed in this discussion.

Now, would I go out of my way to read and/or interact with a smut writer if I knew they are a minor? Absolutely not. But I do not care if they read my work and enjoy it. My work is posted publicly and I'm not interested in monitoring who reads it and who doesn't.

Should minors read and/or write smut?

Should or shouldn't they is truly up for debate and depends on the person.

What I'm interested in pointing out is the fact that they can and they will do so if they're determined enough.

Now do you ,as a writer and/or reader, have the right to be uncomfortable and have the right to set your boundaries? Absolutely yes you do, however that doesn't change the fact that kids are determined and will find a way.

Is it possible to get rid of minors in the nsfw writing space?

No. No , it's not a possibility. No matter how much you shame them and berate them , no matter how much you ask nicely and beg them to leave , minors have always been and will always be part of the nsfw writing community in one way or another.

And I believe it's not possible to get rid of minors in the nsfw writing community because they are kids. Let me explain.

They are underdeveloped humans. Majority of them do not understand nor do they comprehend why someone would feel uncomfortable towards them being part of this community. Most of them are simply not capable of understanding even if you explain it thoroughly.

Now you can , in fact, scare them off and berate them and shame them and attack them to make them leave. Yes, you can do that , but should you?

Being hostile or passive aggressive won't wield a positive result. On the off chance that they leave the community or delete their content after your confrontation , they could easily come back with a new account, a new identity and lie their way through to avoid your hostility towards them. And believe me , I've seen it happen before.

Not only would you be wasting your time by shaming them into leaving, but you'll also be encouraging other minor smut writers who witness your behavior to lie about their age as an attempt to avoid people like you. And that would only complicate the situation more.

What to do if you're uncomfortable with minor smut writers in general

Block them and move on. Trying to kick them out of the community won't work since even if you succeed they can always come back like I already stated in the previous section.

Is there a solution to this issue?

I personally don't believe there is a perfect solution that will satisfy everyone but I have come up with a solution where we can all meet in the middle. I don't believe that it's a perfect solution but it's the best solution that I could come up with. (Please don't be shy and let me know what you think is the best solution)

My solution to this issue

As I've already stated , I don't believe getting rid of minors in this community is possible so that option is off the table for me.

I think we should encourage minors to be honest about their age , that way whoever is uncomfortable with them can avoid them and block them.

Like I said before , I'm well aware this solution has its flaws and it's not perfect by any means, however I believe this is the most civilized solution we can use. If we can have minors disclose their ages truthfully, we can separate the community into multiple sections , one of those sections will house the minors all together, far away from interacting with adults who are uncomfortable with being in the same space with them.

Again , I would love to hear your opinion about this situation if you're part of the nsfw writing community, and I would love to have a nice , civilized and respectful conversation with anyone who's willing to talk. I want to broaden my understanding of the situation and having these types of discussions is the best way to do so.

[mbti-notes]

Anon wrote: Hi mbti-notes, thank you for replyimg to my previous question. I'm the person who asked you how to stand up for myself in the face of people humiliating me for how I look. After some reflectiom, I have some questions to ask with regards to this topic.

I showed a friend a picture of 12 year old me, when I was bullied. She was surprised and told me I seemed so carefree, cheerful, expressive and an exciting and fun person to have around. Never in a million years me or my 12 year old self would have imagined someone describing me with those terms. Altough I objectively agree with her assessment, as I didn't have any fear to be authentic and express my emotions back then, I was made to feel like the most unwanted piece of worthless dirt by my peer group, and that's what I believed my entire life.

Sometimes I would attract boys romantically, so I think it was because they were able to see what my friend saw recently. But I was still almost universally denigrated, so I am confused. I came to the realization that those kids (and these adults as of recently, but also people in general) wanted to control me through shaming. The question is why? Why do they want to control me? By putting me down and telling me I am not entitled to be respected because of my appearance (that's what a drunkhard middle aged man told me in front of a crowd of strangers) what do these people get out of it?

I realized those kids (some of them who are now adult males still attempted to do it after all these years) wanted to dim my light, but why? Anyway, I realized they succeeded. I became a shell of my former self. I completely lost that authenticity and spontaneity. It still exists within me but I am unable to bring it out anymore. I am very aloof, cold, emotionless, expressionless and rigid on the outside. That's what my friend tells me now. For a long time I've felt like I didn't have the “right to exist” or allowed to have human emotions, which brings me to the second question. How can I be authentic again? I forgot both how to do it and I am afraid of doing it. I realized my problem is cowardice. I know what if I dare to affirm my existence, “express myself” and claim my space in the world I would draw a lot of attention and a lot of enemies who would try to “put me in my place” again.

Truth to be told, deep inside I don't actually hate or dislike myself, I am just obeying the people who tell me I should to in order to keep peace and “belong”. But belong to what exactly? Nothing. This is not peace and this is not belonging, but I guess I instinctively make this reasoning to justify my cowardice. I avoid to do the activities I want in order not to be seen and shamed by people (for example, I think I am highly likely to be humiliated in environments such as nightclubs, so I avoid them, which makes me feel bad in turn because I am repressing myself and letting others dictate my actions and the way I live, and the thing I want the most is freedom to be myself and live however I want without fear of everybody's eyes on me).

I know that if I dare to be confident, self-assured and expect the the best out of things, people are gonna despise me and try their hardest to put me back in my place, so I hate myself to appease them, which makes no sense because I am despised both when I make myself small and make myself unimportant and when I act confident. I'm still paid dust when I put myself down for others' appeasement, yet I still do it. I don't know why. It must be mental laziness. I was raised to be passive and punished for advocating for myself so maybe I'm just sticking to an easy habit. People at large think “ugly people” deserve less, so it enrages them when they see someone breaking the social rules they abide to at their own detriment. That's the conclusion I reached. Am I missing something? How do I move from here? How do I find the courage to claim my place in the word and deal with conflit and opposition?

If this can help with your assessment, I also pondered an early childhood memory. I was in kindergarten and other children where organizing a “theatrical play”. I wanted the main character role. After fighting for it they gave it to me, but I was afraid of everybody looking at me and having their attention so I gave the role up to someome else. So I wanted the “main character” role and the attention but at the same time I was afraid of being the main character and getting the attention I desired. I don't know why exactly. I don't remember being shamed for my appearance back then (I didn't have the traits I would be later shamed on), but I remember feeling unseen and unwanted. Maybe it originated from an early memory in my life. I saw two little boys on a slide and I asked them if I could climb and play with them. They laughed at me and told me no, and I remember feeling rejected and shaken to the core by this.

About my other question, as I said, I used to be able to attract romance as an early teen. But after I “shut down” that hasn't happened ever since. I am no longer that person and right now I feel like I am incapable of attracting love. How can I attract love again in the current way that I am?

And lastly, I've never took care of my appearance (as in, dressing well), I would always wear the same 3 shirts and sweatpants because I thought it was useless for me to care about these things since I would get shamed anyway, but lately I've found that I want to start dressing well, do my hair, wear some accessories and a dress (feminine), so when I wore a good outfit my self-esteem instantly shot up, so I am worried about my self-esteem depending on what I wear. How do I prevent that from happening? Also, how do I know if I'm dressing well “for myself” or for social validation and as a cover up for low self-esteem? Because I don't want it to be for the latter reason, so how does one draw the line between these two aspects when it comes to this topic?

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If you are referencing a previous post, please provide the post number from the url. If I have to dig for it, it takes time away from writing a response.

1) Distorted Cognition: You are wasting a lot of mental energy being preoccupied with how other people react to you. Why? With your past experience, you've convinced yourself that everyone in the world is a (potential) threat, which is simply untrue. No matter where you go in the world, there are kind people and there are mean people, and a very small minority of violent people. Unfortunately, you have been unlucky to encounter a lot of mean people.

However, what you don't realize is that your mind is now primed to pick out and remember mean people the most, which makes you a bit blind to the kind people around you. Living in fear means that you are always on the lookout for threats, and then that's all you ever see. Start looking for something else, such as the kind people, and you may find that your perception of the world shifts. Once you start to notice kind people more, you will be in a better position to surround yourself with them, which would dramatically change your social life. But first you have to recognize that not everyone is out to hurt you.

People who have experienced trauma such as bullying are often prone to emotional reasoning. Emotional reasoning is unhealthy because it distorts your perceptions, beliefs, judgments, and decision making. If this is not something you can stop on your own, then it is a good idea to work with a therapist.

2) Lack of Boundaries: You waste mental energy ruminating on why mean people are mean. By doing this, you are essentially taking on other people's baggage as your own. The way you live should be decided through the power of individual choice, but by fixating on others, you cede this power to them. Is someone forcing you to do this? No. You are volunteering time and effort that could otherwise be spent on living your life authentically.

Why are mean people mean? Frankly, it is irrelevant. You are making their meanness matter (and thus making jerks matter), probably because your thinking is unrealistic due to unhealthy Ni. If you're anything like other immature Fs, you walk around thinking that everyone "should" be nice and affirming. If you didn't have such an underlying belief or desire or fantasy, then you wouldn't react so badly when reality proves you wrong. Rather, you'd simply accept the fact that some people are nice and some people aren't, and then adapt accordingly in the moment.

What you haven't understood is that it doesn't matter how beautiful you are, how awesome your personality is, how much success or glory you achieve in life, there are always going to be people who dislike or even hate you for their own personal reasons. When you learn how to truly respect people's right to have their own thoughts rather than expecting them to have the thoughts you want them to have, then you'll understand that their thoughts don't have to be yours. You'll finally realize that what other people think, say, or do is really none of your business, and then you'll be able to focus on what's most important, which is living your life as well as you can.

Do what is best for your well-being. Wear whatever clothes you want to express who you are. Explore the world and learn more about yourself. If people don't like it, that's their business, but does it have to be your business? Their thoughts don't have to matter at all. It's simply a choice you make about where to focus your attention. The world is constantly bombarding us with all kinds of things, but not all of it requires a reaction or response, does it? Developing mature Ni requires you to learn how to tune out everything that doesn't relate directly to your main purpose.

Review my previous reply. I already brought up boundaries. Until you learn to create a healthy boundary between yourself and others, you will keep getting overrun or violated by others. If drawing healthy boundaries is something you aren't able to learn on your own, then it is a good idea to work with a therapist. You can also take workshops in assertiveness, communication skills, and conflict resolution skills to help improve your social confidence. There are lots of ways to improve your situation, but how are you going to take advantage of those opportunities when all of your attention is misspent on trying to make sense of the jerks in the world?