#100!asgore

[revolvius]

UT Alternate Characters #1

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Suggested by @byu-officials

The 2nd character poll is up now!

[rustedleopard]

"Why did Ceroba inject her child with an experimental serum despite Chujin's warnings? Is she a total idiot? That makes no sense, she's a bad parent! This is bad writing!!!"

SHE THOUGHT IT WAS SAFE!!! Chujin blamed the serum failing solely on the fact that the SOUL he used was "impure." Nothing about his technique or anything he did; to him the problem was that the SOUL was "impure." So when Kanako pointed out that Ceroba had improvised a method to extract impurities from the SOUL sample, then it made sense that, since the only issue with the serum was taken care of, it should've been safe to use. That was likely the only deviation that Ceroba did when crafting Chujin's serum, and she probably figured that she'd screwed up removing the impurities instead of questioning anything about her husband's serum; hence why she tries leading a "pure-hearted" Clover to the Royal Laboratory to try making the serum with Kanako all over again. Ceroba's admiration and inability to find fault with Chujin led to her injecting Kanako with the serum, not bad writing or whatever.

[kooki914]

I hope we get to see Asgore fight the cyber queen bitch.

It’d be funny

No <3

Have this wholesomeness instead

[the-great-papyru]

hey so you know how if you spare asgore he’ll say something along the lines of “you remind me of someone i used to know.” and it’s strongly implied he’s talking about his child. you know how generally speaking you have to spare asgore to get true pacifist. (most first-time players kill toriel first playthrough and then flowey’ll tell you not to kill anyone and then if you do kill asgore he gets pissed and doesn’t help you.) you know how flowey soon after confuses you for chara. food for thought.

[packet-of-staples]

Day 100!! - There are 100 Papyruses now

Day 101 - Family guy death pose. This is how I feel after all of this

Day 102 - Cmon upsies!

Day 103 - Continuation of Upsies. He did end up carrying him

Day 104 - I never finished my art fight references…

[mangysah]

Damn

+ The thing I based this off of

[achillean-knight]

THIS HAT APPEARED ON MY INSTA AND I DOODLED THIS ON MY PHONE AS QUICK AS I COULD, ITS SO ASGORE CORE LMAO

[simonsoys]

Another night conceptualizing Swap and Fell as if they were slight deviations in events in the 100 years since Asriel/Chara died, that led the characters to different roles/attitudes, rather than being core personality changes... 

Everyone is still who they are, but in different stages of desperation

hghghg everyone needs a hug still

[sp1derc1der]

Is it just me or is Asgore Dreemurr kinda similar to Ghetsis Harmonia? I mean, both are imposing men with mainly purple robes, they’re both leaders of something (Asgore is a LITERAL king and rules over the monsters and Ghetsis rules over Team Plasma), and they both adopted human children (Asgore is a better dad though)

[buttercupart]

let's play humans & monsters

[inu-jiru]

TORIEL RANT INCOMING:

So, a couple years back, I wrote a disorganized rant about why I was frustrated with Toriel’s character in Undertale, and what I’ve seen in the anniversary post (as well as Deltarune) show me that my issues with Toriel still exist. And before I say anything else, I KNOW that Undertale is about a bunch of flawed characters. I KNOW that know one is meant to be perfect. I KNOW that characters have flaws. My issue is, how am I expected to care about a character who won’t acknowledge her flaws while constantly pointing out the flaws of others?

My issue with Toriel is her lack of accountability and how she’s seemingly untouchable by the rest of the cast when it comes to criticism. For a game that rewards mercy and grace, she constantly denies it from others (Asgore mostly, but he’s not the only example), and is honestly has quite a nasty personality behind those butterscotch pies. I’m not saying she’s secretly some evil witch or something, but she’s far less likeable to me because she’s coddled by the narrative and no one challenges her flawed way of thinking. I hate to do this, because I believe that Toby Fox is a more competent writer than Vivziepop, but Toriel kinda reminds me of Stolas in that regard, and I already despise Stolas as a character, the lack of self-awareness, shifting blame onto others, no one in the narrative actually calling them out and acting all chummy despite barely knowing them, and a spouse who takes the fandom’s ire. I know that Stella is (badly) written to be a one-note villain to justify Stolas’ behavior, and while I extend Stella grace because of that unfortunate fact, I can’t be as kind to Toriel because I know she could be written better.

I favor Asgore as a character because he takes accountability not only for himself, but for his people. He was angry when he announced the war; I can’t imagine any parent would be rational the second after the murder of their kid. I see Toriel’s running away in a similar light, or at least, I want to. The thing stopping me is that there doesn’t seem to be any realization on her part that she was upset or that Asgore, the father of her murdered child, might not have been in the best state of mind when he made that order. She seems to forget the man she married and is content to label him and, to a lesser extent, the rest of the Underground, as the evil ones, while ironically being quiet should Frisk murder a Froggit on front of her or show up to her house covered in dust. For the brains behind the throne, she’s a bit dense, and I can’t tell if that’s a writing issue or simply a character flaw.

It frustrates me that her black-and-white way of thinking is never challenged throughout the game and how she’s allowed to lecture Asgore and lord over others despite giving up her place as Queen. To be fair, the only member of the main cast I could realistically see calling her out for appearing out of nowhere and taking over is Undyne, given how she rebels against Toriel in one of the endings. In the pacifist ending, though, she’s weirdly chill with her possible partner being fired over a genuine mistake in an effort to find a peaceful alternative to SOUL collecting. The characterization seems off between the Pacifist and Neutral endings, and Asgore is similar, as he seems far more self-aware and thoughtful and quick to adopt Frisk in the neutral runs, while he’s a whimpering coward who can’t make decisions the second Toriel appears. Again, I don’t know if these are genuine character flaws or just issues with the writing itself.

I think I’d like Toriel better had she:

1. Done a better job of actually protecting the humans, because it seems like she either just is useless at watching them or waits for the very last second to swoop in and play the hero, like with Frisk.

2. Gone WITH Frisk to ensure their safety as the last SOUL required instead of just abandoning them for her own feelings (honestly, she seems like she only really cares when it’s convenient, otherwise it’s out of sight, out of mind), and maybe actually seeing how Asgore provided his people with hope while compromising and playing the long game.

3. Stayed in the Underground and stuck with her morals rather than moving to the surface and enjoying the benefits that OTHERS had to sacrifice their morals for.

4. Was called out by Undyne in the True Pacifist Run, or at least challenged for appearing out of nowhere because, realistically, only Sans knows who she is, and even that’s pushing it. Sure she’d probably double down on her own flawed logic, but at least the issue of her abandoning her people would actually be addressed and not ignored because “tee hee Soriel! tee hee Undyne and Alphys are gonna kiss!!!”

And just to touch on Asgore really quickly, I’m not saying how he went about things was the perfect solution, but there is no squeaky-clean way to handle the situation of the Barrier. Like it or not, 7 people are required to die if the Barrier is to be broken, since the experiments were a bust in the worst way possible. The thing is, I don’t see why it couldn’t have been a plot point that Asgore raised the humans himself. I get that they wanted to make it ambiguous as to if he was a scary monster like Toriel describes him, or a soft baby like the kingdom claims, but it could’ve worked. Have Asgore shift his decree when he’s more rational to capturing humans and having them delivered to him to “deal with”. Not everyone would follow this, realistically, because some are far more murder-happy than others (gotta put those combat encounters somewhere), but imagine Frisk going around and hearing about the humans being sent off to Asgore and never been seen again, Asgore banning entrance his house to honor his lost family, but still going out and being the friendly king he truly wants to be. All the while, he raises up the humans who choose to seek peace with him, and those who act violently are the ones who face an early end. Make it a parallel to Toriel’s shoebox of different sized shoes, and Asgore’s basement of different sized graves. I don’t know, I guess what I’m saying is neither character was really given much time to properly be explored. I still enjoy the game and it’s impact on me, but it’s definitely not perfect. I have much more I could rant about, but I’d be here all night.

Deltarune!Toriel and Asgore are hard to watch, honestly. Asgore feels like even more of a brainless idiot who’s only character traits are being divorced and poor, while Toriel comes off as one of those overbearing Christian moms who clutch their pearls at everything, which is…definitely a choice. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I want to like Toriel, I do. Hell, even during my hardcore Asgoriel days, I would actually write Toriel finally gaining some self-awareness and gaining some more nuance to her character, while Asgore actually learns to stand up for himself and not put up with Toriel’s passive-aggressiveness despite still loving her. Maybe I should write something about it for old time’s sake.

Anyway, that’s it for now. This is just my thoughts, agree or disagree if you want.

[clovercow8228]

ok last jayson ferin post before im killed (*spoilers!!*)

idk maybe it's just because i'm a chara undertale fictive but ep 100 got me thinkin

ava died, he blames himself for her death but outwardly directed that hatred at the pirates because he thinks they killed her. his relationship with his wife went/is going downhill because he's never home and he's too committed to his work (ie his revenge). he's about to fight an entire war with the pirates versus the navy, but we know it's entirely possible that pirates didn't even kill her. in his mind, jay leaving him means that he lost both his daughters at once, both taken by pirates.

uh. in conclusion

[k-chips]

Guys oh my god

I'm obsessed with that Clavell comic

I want to draw something about it SO BAD T.T

[tatatale]

YEEE CONGRATS ON FINISHING THE SECOND PART!! You did a great job, be proud! ᕙ( ⇀◡↼)ᕗ

Thank you for working so hard on this comic! ♥♥♥

Finally page 28 is finally done and it’s the end of the second part.

Can you believe it has been two years since I started this… « short » comic for the alive au. It has been a ride and I hope I’ll be able to end this comic.

Has said, I think the next pages will be really unstable in their posting due of schools and life.

Idk what will happen, I just need a undertale boost again but for now, enjoy this new page.

I might need to rest again, but the next part will be a mix of funny and angst. But I can tell you one thing…

Where half way done with this story :3

Alive au made by @tatatale

Master post

Previous and next page.

[inbarfink]

Any analysis of how Undertale deals with Pacifism and how it tries to guide the Player towards it has to take a deep look at Papyrus. Because Papyrus is the one character in the game who will never kill, the one actual ‘True Pacifist’ in the game’s main cast. 

I mean, the Player can be an even bigger Pacifist. Papyrus does still FIGHT, and the Player can get through an entire run without draining a single sliver of HP. But… they can also be the world’s biggest murderbastard and literally stab reality to death. 

Toriel would very much like to not kill, but she is also fully capable of doing so.

Same with Asgore, but he has a lot more actual blood on his hands. Undyne and Mettaton are both fully 100% willing to kill to accomplish their goals. Sans is non-violent in most runs because he’s too lazy and depressed to do anything, and when he is motivated into actions - it is in the form of a FIGHT to the death. Alphys… the timeline is a bit fuzzy cause both she and Mettaton love lying so much, but it seems like she did sincerely add deadly weapons to Mettaton cause killing humans would make him more 'useful' and then had second thoughts once she developed a parasocial relationship with the Human Child and THEN she and Mettaton started hatching their little play-acting plan. I think??

With Papyrus there is NONE of this ambiguity, we know for sure - no matter what timeline or what may come - The Great Papyrus will always choose MERCY.

And the interesting thing about that is on a Meta-Sense, Papyrus is a very rare example of the game giving MERCY towards the Player. 

Because the game starts out being really obtuse with the Sparing mechanic and how it works. If you want to be a Pacifist in Undertale from the get-go, you’re gonna have to work for it. You're gonna have to figure it out on your own and commit to it and believe that it's possible. It's basically a test of your own belief in non-violence and your moral integrity. Then, the RUINS end with the Toriel boss battle - in a way, that’s probably the hardest Sparing puzzle in the whole game. And it’s very very easy to accidentally kill her. (I’d almost say that’s the intention of the battle, to try to goad the Player into Resetting so they can see how the game remembers across RESETs)

And then we have Papyrus, and it’s not just that his ‘Sparing Puzzle’ is something as simple as outlasting him and letting him run out of dialogue - and it’s not just that he’s the only boss that will just give up and let you continue if you lose to him enough times. it’s also that, just as Papyrus is the only boss incapable of accidentally killing the Player - he’s also the only boss that the player is incapable of accidentally killing.

(Okay, fine, to be pedantic, there’s also Asgore)

I mean, the Player can certainly kill him if they want to - but draining Papyrus’s HP just makes him skip through his battle dialogue right to the end of it. It’s designed in such a way that, no matter what Route you're on and no matter what approach you take with Papyrus - you will always end up on this screen.

Unlike basically any other Monster in this game, including the major boss battle just before him - you can’t kill Papyrus accidently. You can't kill him without also having Sparing him as an option. The game kinda treats killing Papyrus as one of the Worst Things You Can Do because killing Papyrus will always be a deliberate, considered action done to a person who will not kill you and who has stopped wanting to FIGHT and has extended a hand of Mercy. With the game clearly communicating what you need to do to Spare him at that moment.

And that means that - even if you killed before, even if you don’t have the patience of a True Pacifist, even if you spent all this time in the game without even trying to engage with the Sparing mechanic… as long as you don’t want to be a Huge Rat Bastard, the game is basically gifting you with the very very easy option to not be. Being a Pacifist in Undertale is usually a challenge - a puzzle to be solved, a test to pass. But as long as you aren’t intentionally trying to be the Worst Person - the game is basically giving you Papyrus. 

If you accept his Mercy, you are accepting the game’s Mercy. That sort of benefit-of-the-doubt assumption that maybe all of the LOVE you might have accumulated so far was all due to honest mistakes or panic or an attempt in self-defense. That you still deserve this one chance to prove that you are not intentionally, maliciously cruel - or at least not like the Worst Person in the World. Even if you did kill before, you still deserve at least one friend.

And Sparing Papyrus leads you to his wonderful Hangout/Dating Sequence and to his Phone Calls and they all add so much wholesome charm to the Undertale experience and no matter what happens Papyrus will always think the best of the Player and he will always trust them and it also makes Sans also kinda your buddy by default. And more than just adding a little bit of wholesome charm into even the more LOVE-filled Playthroughs, I think this is meant to try and incentivize these players into trying out the Mercy mechanic a bit more.

Whatever it’s, like, for future playthroughs or Resetting the game right there to try a True Pacifist Run right there and then or just trying to be a little kinder for the rest of this current playthrough - especially since there’s an emphasis about the close friendship Papyrus has with the upcoming boss Undyne, and to a lesser extent with his idol and next-next boss battle Mettaton. It’s like “well, if you didn’t figure out how to spare before, this is how you do it? And isn’t it nice to have a friend? Isn’t it nice to not have to kill this lovable skeleton man? You should do this more often wink wink nudge nudge!”

And it’s like… all of Papyrus’ loved ones care about him so much but they also look down on his pacifism. They see his inability to kill and desire to make friends as simple naivete and that’s why all tend to hide the truth from him all the time. About what will happen to the Human he will capture, about what his new Human friend might’ve done, about the fact that they view him as so naïve. 

They admire it on some level, that’s why they want to protect it, but they also see it as a weakness which is why they want to protect it by lying to him all the time. But, you know, Undyne says that if Papyrus goes into battle he’ll be ‘ripped into little smiling shreds’ and that is certainly what happens every time a Player chooses to refuse Papyrus’ Mercy and the game’s Mercy and press that FIGHT button…

But have you thought about all the times that doesn’t happen? All the careless or violent players who were offered that skeletal hand of friendship, accepted it and then carried that offered kindness forward for the rest of the game? All the players motivated to do good for the sake of their buddy Papyrus? All the Murder Routes stopped because the player just didn’t have it in them to kill someone who believes in them so earnestly?

Like, no, it’s not a surefire thing - especially since Papyrus has so much less narrative power than the Actual Unkillable Time God that is the Player. But it happened, and it happened many many times to many players. Papyrus offered Mercy, the game offered Mercy. And much like Frisk’s Pacifism, it comes from a place of seeing the honest goodness in your ‘enemy’ and can inspire them to become a better person - this little sparkle of goodness being passed forwards. 

And I think that’s beautiful, even if it didn’t happen in every timeline. Any potential future where Papyrus’ kindness can have such an effect on the Player and thus the entire trajectory of the Underground validates his kindness and pacifism on some level - even if there are also always the potential worlds that it backfires completely. 

And there’s also one other way in which the Great Papyrus Proves Pacifism Pays. One that is a bit more practical, perhaps. And one that Papyrus himself is not even aware of. 

Papyrus’ boss battle can be a surprisingly challenging one specifically because he is the only one who doesn’t kill the Player.

Like there is a reason why Papyrus will just offer you to skip his Fight after you lose to him three times, because if he didn’t do that - there’s an honest risk that the Player can get stuck in a much stuckier way than anywhere else in the game. 

Because, like, for basically any other character in the game, being killed is the Worst Thing that could ever happen to them. For everyone except the actual Player Character because we are an Actual Unkillable Time God and dying is nothing more than a minor annoyance that sets you back to your last SAVE Point. So, leaving aside Papyrus’ admirably kind intentions - there is not much material difference from the Player’s perspective between getting Captured and getting a more traditional GAME OVER. Except…

Except getting Captured does not undo everything that happened in your inventory during the battle. In every other Undertale battle, if you use all of your items but still lose - the GAME OVER at least means you get your stuff back. But because Papyrus doesn’t kill you, any healing item you’ve used during the battle is still used. I have watched so many Undertale Let’s Players waste all of their valuable items on their first Papyrus battle and then have to face him again without them and thus do even worse in their second go… and then their third go... and thankfully then Papyrus offers them to skip the fight.

And while that technically can be circumvented by just manually closing the game and opening it back again on their pre-battle SAVE Point, a lot of players are gonna reflexively Save over it if they pop over to the Shop or the Snowed Inn before their second attempt at the battle. If Papyrus didn’t offer that chance to skip his battle, it could’ve easily become a softlock situation for a huge chunk of players - because he doesn’t kill the Player.

Most of Undertale deals with the value of non-violence from a standpoint of morality and kindness and personal connections. Since most people do die when they get killed. But when dealing with an Unkillable Time God like the Player, Papyrus proves that not-killing might actually be the most practical solution.

Of course, it doesn’t seem like Papyrus is aware of any of this. From his perspective, he is just offering genuine mercy to a being just as ephemeral as he is. But it accidentally turned into one of the most effective methods of blocking the Player’s way… at least he didn’t offer us an opt out so soon after that. 

And it’s interesting when comparing him to how his brother Sans - one of the few people actually aware of the existence of SAVEs and RESETs - deals with the Player. Because the Sans boss battle at the end of the Murder Route is entirely based on the concept that death is nothing but an annoyance to the Player. Sans is less trying to kill the Player (the way Undyne the Undying did), he is simply trying to annoy the Player into a ragequit. But he is still killing the Player.

Now imagine a Sans battle where he has all of his usual annoying tricks, but also instead of killing you - he captures you just like his brother would’ve in a happier timeline. And while it’s not a fool-proof plan to stop the Player in their tracks - he could very easily stick them in that sort of softlock situation where they have to battle him again and again without any Healing Items. Forcing them to either abandon the game or RESET the whole world back the way it was - just like Sans wants them too. 

But instead, by killing the Player, he is just allowing that perfect second-third-fourth-fifth-sixth-try where they get all of their Stuff back. And he does actually knows that. And why doesn’t he do that? (Speaking here from an in-universe character study perspective. Obviously the Doylist answer is that the game doesn’t want to Softlock you even in the most deliberately-frustrating part of the game).

Maybe, even though he intellectually knows that killing the Player will be of no help - he still does it because he wants to. Because he just wants to get back at the evil murderous monster that took his brother from him and destroyed his entire world even if he knows it’s actually ineffective. And this thirst for bloodshed is, ironically, blinding him from a new exciting way to actually practically stop that murderous bastard who is themself motivated entirely by bloodshed. 

Maybe he just can’t do something like that. Reducing an enemy to exactly one HP and then stopping is not a feat anyone else in the game is capable of pulling off - even the ones who would obviously use such a thing (like Toriel or a Player with a Pacifist intentions). Maybe it’s something that requires a lot of hard practice and discipline and carefulness, that Sans never thought to put in because he didn’t see it as a useful skill the way Papyrus did. 

Maybe that wouldn’t have worked anyways. After all, and that’s something I kinda touched on in a previous Overly Long Rambly Hot Take - Sans’ War of Attrition against the Player is greatly helped by the fact he can’t remember every single previous try and so he can’t get exhausted the way the Player can get. Obviously, without a GAME OVER induced RESET that will not apply. Which is especially notable because… Sans’ laziness is literally what brings him down at the end of that Boss Battle. 

So maybe, while Papyrus, as long as you decline his offer to skip the battle, is capable of offering just the same Battle as before over and over and over again.... It’s possible that Sans just won’t be able to pull off two or three or more battles of the same intensity and difficulty in a row without a RESET to undo his own exhaustion. 

But I think it’s at least worth considering the option, y’know? That after all this time of viewing Papyrus’ kindness as sweet-and-yet-kinda-foolish-naïveté - that exact viewpoint made Sans overlook the perfect solution to dealing with his little Murderous Time God problem. Cause he just never considered that while killing might be fully morally justifiable in this situation and very very satisfying, that does not necessarily mean it is actually the most practical solution. And that maybe, in a weirdly twisted way, Pacifism WAS the answer.  

[were--ralph]

I'll be 100% honest i don't even think Asgore is hot i just think the way artists draw him can be hot. similar to bowser kinda.

Like Asgore is like 20 pixels theres nothing inherently hot about him BUT god bless the men and women of this nation who draw him overweight with a mustache and a sense that someone desperately needs to piss on him

Bowser on the other hand is like not hot in canon generally but sometimes i do find myself like "oh cum on me?" randomly and that's the beauty of being a furry