#....maybe that's the reason hera is so evil in myth. not just because of zeus' infidelity but because marriage itself was corrupted

[cer-rata]

Goddesses That Would Be Better Wonder Woman Antagonists Than Hera

Enough with Hera as a bitter, manipulative, shortsighted hag!!!

WE GET IT! HERA HATES ZEUS'S BASTARD KIDS! SHE GETS MAD ABOUT IT! ENOUGH! SHE HAS OTHER TRAITS!

*Cough*

I'm so sick of media making Hera a flat, hysterical cunt, especially compared to the general moral nuance that her entire pantheon represents. It's just lazy at this point and done to death, and for Wonder Woman to have to fight a woman who's main grievance is being cheated on and generally mistreated by her husband again and again again and again like...optics people.

So here are my choice picks for goddesses of other pantheons (and one Greek on) that would be interesting obstacles to Diana, both ideologically and materially. Also! I say antagonists on purpose, because generally in polytheism, gods aren't truly evil, even if they have negative attributes, it's always more complicated than that, and while these ladies WILL cause some conflict, they're all more than just flat villains. Most could reasonably also be allies, and Diana is all about making her foes into friends.

Skadi

A goddess and Jotunn, Skadi is the queen of bowhunting, skiing and winter, generally. Famous for storming Asgard alone to avenge her father, and being intimidating enough for Odin to choose to attempt to appease her instead, Skadi is intense, and fittingly cold, but also fair and capable of seeing reason. Her tentative truce with Odin and her failed marriage to the god of the summer, Njord, could be ripe to twist into reasons to cast her eye towards current events, both divine and mortal. A proud, mighty giantess that will do what she deems necessary to see justice done to herself? You can do stuff there.

Izanami-no-Mikoto

The Shinto creation deity turned goddess of death, Izanami is upset! Very upset! And fairly so! She's like if Eurydice got really livid after Orpheus ignored her simple instructions and vowed to break all of his little toys. Because that is exactly what happened, they almost have the same myth. As revenge for him messing up her resurrection, Izanami vowed to kill 1k people each day to hurt her husband, Izanagi, the other creator deity. Izanagi responded by making 1.5k new people each day, which...I mean solves maybe the wrong end of the problem but...

Unlike Hera, she poses an active threat to mortals and has the power to make dealing with her difficult. Maybe Diana and Amaterasu have to team up to deal with her insane...uh...step mother? Kind of? It's a little complicated, I'm not going into it, Wikipedia is your friend.

Ishtar

I'm going to be honest she's my mythology blorbo and I made this post for her okay--

The Mesopotamian goddess of love, war, conquest, divine law, the Queen of Heaven, patron of queer folk (No I'm not making that up, she's down for the gays mythologically speaking), Ishtar is complicated, a little strange, and funny, so funny. She's got a short temper, is easily offended, yet is generally fair and uninterested in harm coming to mortals. Her bit thing is how her conquest domain often manifests. She doesn't care about leading armies or whatever, she goes to attempts to swindle or fight other gods for their domains. Her big famous myth is about her hubris in attempting to single-handedly storm the underworld to steal the seat from her sister. She's incredibly powerful and self assured, a little petty, but not cruel. If you want a goddess who will show up, slap Diana down a city block and intend it as a friendly hello, while also vaguely suggesting that they make out, it's Ishtar. She's a perfect occasional antagonist/ally depending on her whims, and she's so disinterested in bothering humanity that you can really have mostly consequence free god fights. An arc where she decides that Ares is starting to embarrass the war god community and she's going to beat his ass and take his job? Diana has to try to get her to stop without offending her and making it a personal problem? Because again this woman is crazy, she has beaten a mountain to death because it wouldn't bow. It was not a sentient mountain. She'd be so much fun!

And we're going to ignore the version of her that showed up in "Black Adam" because that was boring, lame, and focused completely on the sexual angle, because straight men can only focus on one trait at a time--

Pele

Polynesian goddess of volcanoes, Pele fills a lot of the same niche's as Ishtar here, in that her rage and displeasure is catastrophic, befitting the personification of a volcano. Though even as a volcano god she's notably scary, in some tellings the previous volcano god who occupied the volcano she lives in now, caught wind that she was coming in his general direction--not specifically for him mind you, just in his direction--and he fled for his life, vacating the volcano. She's as multifaceted as a volcano though, bringing life as well as destruction. But you know. Her domain IS a natural disaster, so it's not hard to create a scenario where Diana would need to try to stop that from being a thing. Bonus points if she's irritated about the colonization of Hawaii, that could be an interesting narrative for Diana to contend with.

Nemesis

DC dropped the ball here as well, don't look her up, you REALLY don't want to see her design, it's nasty.

Anyway, Nemesis is the goddess of retribution, but SPECIFICALLY for the crime of "hubris" or arrogance against the gods. She punishes you for thinking you're hot stuff in comparison to the divine. She's the reason Narcissus fell in love with his own reflection and died. She did that. She thought he was a bitch, and she was correct. Why is that distinction important? Because she's not just vengeance, she's a tool to defend the honor and ego of the gods. Who in the DC universe would make the Greek gods feel disrespected and threatened? An alien who is willing to punch them in the face perhaps? We could have Diana desperately trying to stop this divine terminator from messing up her super friends who really don't understand the levels of petty the her pantheon is willing to stoop to to save face. Shes a winged warrior goddess with a heart of stone!!! Give us that fight!!!

Anything but Hera!!! Anything!!! Leave her alone!!!!

[godsofhumanity]

Hey, I'm the Wonder Woman anon here

So apparently Modern Wonder Woman's origin story is the product of the Adultery between Zeus and her Mother and was told she was made of clay to trick a Jealous Hera

I fucking hate re-iterations when they're terrible

I like the old versions way better:

_ Diana was made of clay and given life by possibly Aphrodite since originally Aphrodite is the Mother of all Amazonians since she crafted them out of clay. One said there was a magical liquid that gave life to the clay baby Diana

_ Diana was the result of a literal virgin birth, her Mom crafted her out of clay and Zeus gave her life by striking a lightning bolt into her clay body. See the clip here:

https://youtu.be/9ogFRUg_dGA?feature=shared

(A woman literally said Hippolyta wanted a child not created out of unholy union. Which means she wanted to have a virgin birth. I think that's a beautiful cause since childbirth is a horror to women and it also brings out the femininity of the Amazon much more profoundly, it is also my fave version of Wonder Woman's origin story)

I don't think Hera would have anything against a baby who was given life to by her husband's power,it's not like he physically cheated with a Woman again, if anything she would give the child blessings, maybe that's why Wonder Woman is said to be better in some aspects than the Olympians

But the Modern version of Wonder Woman's origin is that she's an affair child and had a faked birth story so Hera won't get jealous

This is why I prefer the old ones, they're so better and not to basic

If Hera can be someone else other than a jealous, evil wife then I think Wonder Woman shouldn't be just an "affair child", considering how she's importantly known as a sacred being, almost reaching godhood

I'm not hating illegitimate children, but I can't see Queen Hippolyta having an affair with Zeus for so many reasons, cuz it literally ruins her character and the entire ideal of the Amazonians, which is to worship all the greatness of a Woman, I don't think they view unholy affair as one of the good things they have followed and preached for centuries

Also the Amazonians greatly worshipped the Olympians, Hera and Zeus ARE the rulers of Olympians, Queen Hippolyta must be willing to shame herself till the end of time if she would do something like sleeping with the God and tricking the Goddess she so greatly worshipped. It's literally Religion 101

I'm sorry but no matter what some might say, cheating with someone's spouse is never cool or it is a feminine/manly thing, it's not okay

first of all. amen to that last statement, i 100% agree with you.

honestly though. personally, the only situation where i can see Hera not going rage-mode over WW is if Zeus actually consulted her and was like, “hey theres this cool clay model of a woman and i think if i gave her life, she’d make a great hero,, if you blessed her also she’d do a lot of good..” he has to include her in it,, king and queen of Olympus creating heroes together. because then, in a sense, WW is a champion of Hera too.

but otherwise. Hera is a very vengeful, quick to anger goddess. so i think in any other situation, even if Zeus technically didn’t “biologically” make WW, she’d still be furious with both Zeus and WW. i say this because, if you look at the myths of Dionysus and Athena, even though Zeus did actually need a woman to create at least dio and thena’s foetuses, Hera sees their births as something Zeus managed on HIS OWN. and that pisses her off a LOT since he effectively renders her sacred role as a mother redundant. it’s a huge slight to her.

i am not familiar with Queen Hippolyta’s (DC) characterisation… however, in the myths, Theseus is usually portrayed as forcing himself on Hippolyta after he defeats the Amazons and they have a son, tragic Hippolytus. so, if that means anything. i’d imagine that Hippolyta (DC), in the spirit of the treatment of her namesake in myth, must also be rejecting relationships with men too. but then again, i do not remember the lore details of the WW films, i only remember that i liked the portrayal of WW herself specifically.

[superkooku]

This post was supposed to be LO critical. In the end, I realized I was just rambling on ideas for Apollo.

This post inspired me to write some ideas on Apollo as an antagonist, or his flaws in general. Because it's really interesting to explore instead of what we had in LO.

He could be so darn good as an antagonist, in the hands of a talented writer who respects his origins.

Am I this writer ? Nope. I'm just a newbie who likes Greek myths. I'm sure a competent professional could come up with better ideas.

I just want to bring my very subjective opinion on the table.

And so, here are some other concrete suggestions for Apollo as an antagonist.

(antagonist ≠ villain. I'd prefer avoiding completely demonizing him.)

What @infernothechaosgod suggested

The plot about grieving Hyacinthus could be a good idea.

He could be neglecting his job because of it, maybe getting extremely anxious and overreacting a lot.

The god's grief is a powerful tool that isn't used enough. It's always so powerful and intense !

Demeter starved the whole world when Persephone was kidnapped, after all.

But the most intense grieving god could perfectly be Apollo. He's supposed to be protective, sensitive, talented and smart. Those character traits would make an explosive mix !

Character stuff

This is the part where a good writer should be involved.

Apollo is one of the most intense gods on Olympus. He can be prideful at times, which makes him confident and a little... touchy.

Greek Gods are nuanced beings, they already have flaws. No need to add "he's a delusional idiot" to the list.

Also, RS' idea of Apollo being less perfect than he seems is actually really interesting. Maybe Zeus or the others put a lot of pressure on him, which makes him stressed out.

Maybe his importance makes him super busy all the time. Because, when you're the patron god of arts, archery, medicine, mathematics, sport, the youth, and the SUN (with Helios), you don't have that much time for yourself.

The time he was mortal could be interesting to explore. Him being free of all his responsibilities, but so weak at the same time.

Since he's not the main character in this configuration, we could just stop at the "stressed overreacting god who wants to maintain his good reputation".

And so, when someone threatens that reputation, he could lash out.

The story writes itself !

Some bad things Apollo actually did

Instead of inventing an SA plot (and not handling it correctly), we could look up some of Apollo's wrathful moments.

They could be used as opportunities for him to learn some lessons to become a better god than he already is. It could also mean we flesh out some characters.

They should not be used as excuses to put him as Olympus' resident evil guy.

The whole Marsyas situation

Cassandra (I think LO did use that one, but she is such a minor character that the whole story should be re-done)

Apollo slaying Python: tbf, he had his reasons. I just add it because it's interesting.

Coronis' punishment and Asclepius' birth

Speaking of Asclepius :

Apollo could try to overthrow Zeus because of the whole Asclepius incident.

Someone suggested it on the ULO subreddit, and I actually found it to be a very good idea.

It could justify his desire to overthrow his father

I won't be summarizing the myth, because it's very easy to Google it, but I just love it so much ! It both shows Apollo's best and worst aspects.

Also, if we're talking about LO, Persephone could play a role in the story. Maybe Hades and her would have different opinions whether he should be resurrected or not.

And there's the whole situation about Apollo being almost thrown into Tartarus ! That's super intense.

You know, an idea relating to the Underworld™ in a story about the king of the Underworld™ 😅

(And it's not like Apollo never tried to replace Zeus. In some versions, he assists Hera, Athena and Poseidon in their own uprising.)

Conclusion :

Thank you, @infernothechaosgod 👍

Also, Greek gods as antagonists is way more interesting than them as evil villains to me.

(also, any story about Apollo must feature his relationship with Artemis and Leto. Accurately.

Because I like wholesome sibling moments and Leto is awesome).

bada bim bada dam bitch

Im back on hating on lo on this account

ttoday i would like to talk about apollo and why rachels reason for choosing him to be the villian is extremly stupid

(All quotes from girl wonders podcast)

Audience member : what was your inspiration for making Apollo the bad guy when it came to uh, attacking Persephone?

Rachel : Um, so what I think what it comes down to is looking at Greek mythology as a whole and he is sort of the most—uh, he is one of the most important and crucial, uh, charac—die—deities in the pantheon. Um, he is in charge of so many things and I think it really subverts that uh, expectation that you have, um, where you think that he’s going to be very, very good and I think in society, we often hold up men who we perceive to be as very, very good and um, it just—it makes sense for the story to—to flip it a little bit, because Hades is kind of always the bad guy. So I’m like, “Hades could have a turn at being good” and like, the same for Hera as well.

Okay so I agree that switching the gods roles might be fun I myself make apollo an introvert while making artemis the extrovert in my retellings BUT Theres my issue

Lore olympus is a modern retelling with modern morals in it, there are so SO many gods who have done the same act as apollo in the muths but got it cut out in the comic why leave it on apollo though?

Becuse he was important, he still IS important thats the only reason why rararuchu decided to leave it in becuse he as a God as a person some people still worship is important

You know, Im accualy all in for the idea of feral villian apollo, and I mean serious villian apollo the type of villian that makes you feel complex emotions and the type of villian that doesnt plan to stop doing wrong, I would accualy love to see that

But unfortunetly Rachel doesnt know how to write complex villians or complex anything

You know how easier you could make apollo a villian with a good reason for hating persephone?

Make one of the mortals persephone killed hyacinthus, one of the most if arguably not the most beloved human lover of apollo

Make apollo a grieving villian that uses his plauge powers to the point where it starts to hurt him ALOT

Make apollo complex just like he was in the myths