#....maybe that's the reason hera is so evil in myth. not just because of zeus' infidelity but because marriage itself was corrupted

[aspiringwarriorlibrarian]

Hades is in fact the best interpretation of the Demeter and Persephone myth, because while it changes the details it gets the essence of the story as the Greeks would have understood it. The essence being "Actually, both Demeter and Hades are acting reasonably and this is all Zeus' fault.".

[cer-rata]

Goddesses That Would Be Better Wonder Woman Antagonists Than Hera

Enough with Hera as a bitter, manipulative, shortsighted hag!!!

WE GET IT! HERA HATES ZEUS'S BASTARD KIDS! SHE GETS MAD ABOUT IT! ENOUGH! SHE HAS OTHER TRAITS!

*Cough*

I'm so sick of media making Hera a flat, hysterical cunt, especially compared to the general moral nuance that her entire pantheon represents. It's just lazy at this point and done to death, and for Wonder Woman to have to fight a woman who's main grievance is being cheated on and generally mistreated by her husband again and again again and again like...optics people.

So here are my choice picks for goddesses of other pantheons (and one Greek on) that would be interesting obstacles to Diana, both ideologically and materially. Also! I say antagonists on purpose, because generally in polytheism, gods aren't truly evil, even if they have negative attributes, it's always more complicated than that, and while these ladies WILL cause some conflict, they're all more than just flat villains. Most could reasonably also be allies, and Diana is all about making her foes into friends.

Skadi

A goddess and Jotunn, Skadi is the queen of bowhunting, skiing and winter, generally. Famous for storming Asgard alone to avenge her father, and being intimidating enough for Odin to choose to attempt to appease her instead, Skadi is intense, and fittingly cold, but also fair and capable of seeing reason. Her tentative truce with Odin and her failed marriage to the god of the summer, Njord, could be ripe to twist into reasons to cast her eye towards current events, both divine and mortal. A proud, mighty giantess that will do what she deems necessary to see justice done to herself? You can do stuff there.

Izanami-no-Mikoto

The Shinto creation deity turned goddess of death, Izanami is upset! Very upset! And fairly so! She's like if Eurydice got really livid after Orpheus ignored her simple instructions and vowed to break all of his little toys. Because that is exactly what happened, they almost have the same myth. As revenge for him messing up her resurrection, Izanami vowed to kill 1k people each day to hurt her husband, Izanagi, the other creator deity. Izanagi responded by making 1.5k new people each day, which...I mean solves maybe the wrong end of the problem but...

Unlike Hera, she poses an active threat to mortals and has the power to make dealing with her difficult. Maybe Diana and Amaterasu have to team up to deal with her insane...uh...step mother? Kind of? It's a little complicated, I'm not going into it, Wikipedia is your friend.

Ishtar

I'm going to be honest she's my mythology blorbo and I made this post for her okay--

The Mesopotamian goddess of love, war, conquest, divine law, the Queen of Heaven, patron of queer folk (No I'm not making that up, she's down for the gays mythologically speaking), Ishtar is complicated, a little strange, and funny, so funny. She's got a short temper, is easily offended, yet is generally fair and uninterested in harm coming to mortals. Her bit thing is how her conquest domain often manifests. She doesn't care about leading armies or whatever, she goes to attempts to swindle or fight other gods for their domains. Her big famous myth is about her hubris in attempting to single-handedly storm the underworld to steal the seat from her sister. She's incredibly powerful and self assured, a little petty, but not cruel. If you want a goddess who will show up, slap Diana down a city block and intend it as a friendly hello, while also vaguely suggesting that they make out, it's Ishtar. She's a perfect occasional antagonist/ally depending on her whims, and she's so disinterested in bothering humanity that you can really have mostly consequence free god fights. An arc where she decides that Ares is starting to embarrass the war god community and she's going to beat his ass and take his job? Diana has to try to get her to stop without offending her and making it a personal problem? Because again this woman is crazy, she has beaten a mountain to death because it wouldn't bow. It was not a sentient mountain. She'd be so much fun!

And we're going to ignore the version of her that showed up in "Black Adam" because that was boring, lame, and focused completely on the sexual angle, because straight men can only focus on one trait at a time--

Pele

Polynesian goddess of volcanoes, Pele fills a lot of the same niche's as Ishtar here, in that her rage and displeasure is catastrophic, befitting the personification of a volcano. Though even as a volcano god she's notably scary, in some tellings the previous volcano god who occupied the volcano she lives in now, caught wind that she was coming in his general direction--not specifically for him mind you, just in his direction--and he fled for his life, vacating the volcano. She's as multifaceted as a volcano though, bringing life as well as destruction. But you know. Her domain IS a natural disaster, so it's not hard to create a scenario where Diana would need to try to stop that from being a thing. Bonus points if she's irritated about the colonization of Hawaii, that could be an interesting narrative for Diana to contend with.

Nemesis

DC dropped the ball here as well, don't look her up, you REALLY don't want to see her design, it's nasty.

Anyway, Nemesis is the goddess of retribution, but SPECIFICALLY for the crime of "hubris" or arrogance against the gods. She punishes you for thinking you're hot stuff in comparison to the divine. She's the reason Narcissus fell in love with his own reflection and died. She did that. She thought he was a bitch, and she was correct. Why is that distinction important? Because she's not just vengeance, she's a tool to defend the honor and ego of the gods. Who in the DC universe would make the Greek gods feel disrespected and threatened? An alien who is willing to punch them in the face perhaps? We could have Diana desperately trying to stop this divine terminator from messing up her super friends who really don't understand the levels of petty the her pantheon is willing to stoop to to save face. Shes a winged warrior goddess with a heart of stone!!! Give us that fight!!!

Anything but Hera!!! Anything!!! Leave her alone!!!!

[godsofhumanity]

Hey, I'm the Wonder Woman anon here

So apparently Modern Wonder Woman's origin story is the product of the Adultery between Zeus and her Mother and was told she was made of clay to trick a Jealous Hera

I fucking hate re-iterations when they're terrible

I like the old versions way better:

_ Diana was made of clay and given life by possibly Aphrodite since originally Aphrodite is the Mother of all Amazonians since she crafted them out of clay. One said there was a magical liquid that gave life to the clay baby Diana

_ Diana was the result of a literal virgin birth, her Mom crafted her out of clay and Zeus gave her life by striking a lightning bolt into her clay body. See the clip here:

https://youtu.be/9ogFRUg_dGA?feature=shared

(A woman literally said Hippolyta wanted a child not created out of unholy union. Which means she wanted to have a virgin birth. I think that's a beautiful cause since childbirth is a horror to women and it also brings out the femininity of the Amazon much more profoundly, it is also my fave version of Wonder Woman's origin story)

I don't think Hera would have anything against a baby who was given life to by her husband's power,it's not like he physically cheated with a Woman again, if anything she would give the child blessings, maybe that's why Wonder Woman is said to be better in some aspects than the Olympians

But the Modern version of Wonder Woman's origin is that she's an affair child and had a faked birth story so Hera won't get jealous

This is why I prefer the old ones, they're so better and not to basic

If Hera can be someone else other than a jealous, evil wife then I think Wonder Woman shouldn't be just an "affair child", considering how she's importantly known as a sacred being, almost reaching godhood

I'm not hating illegitimate children, but I can't see Queen Hippolyta having an affair with Zeus for so many reasons, cuz it literally ruins her character and the entire ideal of the Amazonians, which is to worship all the greatness of a Woman, I don't think they view unholy affair as one of the good things they have followed and preached for centuries

Also the Amazonians greatly worshipped the Olympians, Hera and Zeus ARE the rulers of Olympians, Queen Hippolyta must be willing to shame herself till the end of time if she would do something like sleeping with the God and tricking the Goddess she so greatly worshipped. It's literally Religion 101

I'm sorry but no matter what some might say, cheating with someone's spouse is never cool or it is a feminine/manly thing, it's not okay

first of all. amen to that last statement, i 100% agree with you.

honestly though. personally, the only situation where i can see Hera not going rage-mode over WW is if Zeus actually consulted her and was like, “hey theres this cool clay model of a woman and i think if i gave her life, she’d make a great hero,, if you blessed her also she’d do a lot of good..” he has to include her in it,, king and queen of Olympus creating heroes together. because then, in a sense, WW is a champion of Hera too.

but otherwise. Hera is a very vengeful, quick to anger goddess. so i think in any other situation, even if Zeus technically didn’t “biologically” make WW, she’d still be furious with both Zeus and WW. i say this because, if you look at the myths of Dionysus and Athena, even though Zeus did actually need a woman to create at least dio and thena’s foetuses, Hera sees their births as something Zeus managed on HIS OWN. and that pisses her off a LOT since he effectively renders her sacred role as a mother redundant. it’s a huge slight to her.

i am not familiar with Queen Hippolyta’s (DC) characterisation… however, in the myths, Theseus is usually portrayed as forcing himself on Hippolyta after he defeats the Amazons and they have a son, tragic Hippolytus. so, if that means anything. i’d imagine that Hippolyta (DC), in the spirit of the treatment of her namesake in myth, must also be rejecting relationships with men too. but then again, i do not remember the lore details of the WW films, i only remember that i liked the portrayal of WW herself specifically.

[superkooku]

This post was supposed to be LO critical. In the end, I realized I was just rambling on ideas for Apollo.

This post inspired me to write some ideas on Apollo as an antagonist, or his flaws in general. Because it's really interesting to explore instead of what we had in LO.

He could be so darn good as an antagonist, in the hands of a talented writer who respects his origins.

Am I this writer ? Nope. I'm just a newbie who likes Greek myths. I'm sure a competent professional could come up with better ideas.

I just want to bring my very subjective opinion on the table.

And so, here are some other concrete suggestions for Apollo as an antagonist.

(antagonist ≠ villain. I'd prefer avoiding completely demonizing him.)

What @infernothechaosgod suggested

The plot about grieving Hyacinthus could be a good idea.

He could be neglecting his job because of it, maybe getting extremely anxious and overreacting a lot.

The god's grief is a powerful tool that isn't used enough. It's always so powerful and intense !

Demeter starved the whole world when Persephone was kidnapped, after all.

But the most intense grieving god could perfectly be Apollo. He's supposed to be protective, sensitive, talented and smart. Those character traits would make an explosive mix !

Character stuff

This is the part where a good writer should be involved.

Apollo is one of the most intense gods on Olympus. He can be prideful at times, which makes him confident and a little... touchy.

Greek Gods are nuanced beings, they already have flaws. No need to add "he's a delusional idiot" to the list.

Also, RS' idea of Apollo being less perfect than he seems is actually really interesting. Maybe Zeus or the others put a lot of pressure on him, which makes him stressed out.

Maybe his importance makes him super busy all the time. Because, when you're the patron god of arts, archery, medicine, mathematics, sport, the youth, and the SUN (with Helios), you don't have that much time for yourself.

The time he was mortal could be interesting to explore. Him being free of all his responsibilities, but so weak at the same time.

Since he's not the main character in this configuration, we could just stop at the "stressed overreacting god who wants to maintain his good reputation".

And so, when someone threatens that reputation, he could lash out.

The story writes itself !

Some bad things Apollo actually did

Instead of inventing an SA plot (and not handling it correctly), we could look up some of Apollo's wrathful moments.

They could be used as opportunities for him to learn some lessons to become a better god than he already is. It could also mean we flesh out some characters.

They should not be used as excuses to put him as Olympus' resident evil guy.

The whole Marsyas situation

Cassandra (I think LO did use that one, but she is such a minor character that the whole story should be re-done)

Apollo slaying Python: tbf, he had his reasons. I just add it because it's interesting.

Coronis' punishment and Asclepius' birth

Speaking of Asclepius :

Apollo could try to overthrow Zeus because of the whole Asclepius incident.

Someone suggested it on the ULO subreddit, and I actually found it to be a very good idea.

It could justify his desire to overthrow his father

I won't be summarizing the myth, because it's very easy to Google it, but I just love it so much ! It both shows Apollo's best and worst aspects.

Also, if we're talking about LO, Persephone could play a role in the story. Maybe Hades and her would have different opinions whether he should be resurrected or not.

And there's the whole situation about Apollo being almost thrown into Tartarus ! That's super intense.

You know, an idea relating to the Underworld™ in a story about the king of the Underworld™ 😅

(And it's not like Apollo never tried to replace Zeus. In some versions, he assists Hera, Athena and Poseidon in their own uprising.)

Conclusion :

Thank you, @infernothechaosgod 👍

Also, Greek gods as antagonists is way more interesting than them as evil villains to me.

(also, any story about Apollo must feature his relationship with Artemis and Leto. Accurately.

Because I like wholesome sibling moments and Leto is awesome).

bada bim bada dam bitch

Im back on hating on lo on this account

ttoday i would like to talk about apollo and why rachels reason for choosing him to be the villian is extremly stupid

(All quotes from girl wonders podcast)

Audience member : what was your inspiration for making Apollo the bad guy when it came to uh, attacking Persephone?

Rachel : Um, so what I think what it comes down to is looking at Greek mythology as a whole and he is sort of the most—uh, he is one of the most important and crucial, uh, charac—die—deities in the pantheon. Um, he is in charge of so many things and I think it really subverts that uh, expectation that you have, um, where you think that he’s going to be very, very good and I think in society, we often hold up men who we perceive to be as very, very good and um, it just—it makes sense for the story to—to flip it a little bit, because Hades is kind of always the bad guy. So I’m like, “Hades could have a turn at being good” and like, the same for Hera as well.

Okay so I agree that switching the gods roles might be fun I myself make apollo an introvert while making artemis the extrovert in my retellings BUT Theres my issue

Lore olympus is a modern retelling with modern morals in it, there are so SO many gods who have done the same act as apollo in the muths but got it cut out in the comic why leave it on apollo though?

Becuse he was important, he still IS important thats the only reason why rararuchu decided to leave it in becuse he as a God as a person some people still worship is important

You know, Im accualy all in for the idea of feral villian apollo, and I mean serious villian apollo the type of villian that makes you feel complex emotions and the type of villian that doesnt plan to stop doing wrong, I would accualy love to see that

But unfortunetly Rachel doesnt know how to write complex villians or complex anything

You know how easier you could make apollo a villian with a good reason for hating persephone?

Make one of the mortals persephone killed hyacinthus, one of the most if arguably not the most beloved human lover of apollo

Make apollo a grieving villian that uses his plauge powers to the point where it starts to hurt him ALOT

Make apollo complex just like he was in the myths

[the-ghost-king]

So I'm not going to start like an Anti-Chiron tag because I don't find that enjoyable personally, but every so often people ask why I dislike him so here's essentially a "masterpost" of my thoughts on that situation for when anyone asks, just so I have it to explain some...

This isn't nearly a full list, and there's many more "incidents" that make me less than fond of Chiron, I don't hate the old man but he leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I'm not a fan of that. He's a very twisted character.

- The Lightning Thief

This quote is literally just after Percy's mom "dies", they're all sitting on the porch of the Big House right after he's finally woken up after days of sleeping, and that's the line Chiron pulls out on him.

That's straight up emotional manipulation which was entirely unnecessary in the context of what Chiron was trying to explain. There wasn't a single reason for that, in the slightest.

Immediately following that, and Percy, who canonically has anger issues, does his best to remain calm, he is immediately threatened by Dionysus, and Chiron doesn't even tell Dionysus off for doing that; Chiron just let's it happen. It's Grover who has to speak up to tell Dionysus off...

The only reason Chiron comes out looking like a old guy in this scene is because Dionysus was so much worse in his behavior, at one point intimidating Percy with his power over madness.

- The Titan's Curse

This is the aftermath of when Nico ran away upon confirmation of Bianca's death. When Percy is telling Chiron about the situation, Chiron wishes Nico had been eaten alive rather than recruited into an army.

He'd rather a child be dead than fight against him, and he openly tells this to other children he's in charge of. If Percy went missing would he have said "I hope he was eaten <3" as well?

I don't blame Perry for not delivering the truth here, it was done in an effort to protect Nico; which wasn't something Annabeth had planned on doing... I don't blame Annabeth for that though either, she's been beneath Chiron so long that she probably doesn't realize the shady stuff he does, and to her "going to tell" probably was the "right" move because she was a child...

But the fact that Chiron believes Nico truly would be better off eaten than alive :/

- Tower of Nero

This quote from Tower of Nero shows that Chiron lied to a bunch of young children (most of them were young because the older campers are largely dead because of the war or too old for camp now). It wasn't just a little white lie that adults sometimes tell kids either; they were walking into battle and he told them it was a field trip.

Did he even begin to explain the danger he was putting these kids in? Did the children understand their situation? And how dangerous it was?

Kayla has been blindsided over the years into thinking that telling children they're going on a field trip instead of fighting a battle is something to make a joke of and not be questioned... (Again, I don't blame her she's only like 12 in the book, but still)

Apollo also agrees, which isn't on Chiron but it's a whole mother reason why I can't stand Rick's interpretation of Apollo...

<><><><><>

This isn't me being like "oh Chiron is the worst most evil character ever" I just think that he has numerous flaws which are largely ignored in favor of the "perfect wise teacher" narrative when in fact Chiron and Dumbledore share a lot of.. Offputting qualities.

I do think that some of the situation is simply a result of Chiron having his hands tied behind his back by the gods some. And he even goes so far as to confirm this in a scene of TLT

However many of the scenes in which he exhibits behaviors like that in my first three screenshots are not related to anything the gods require and are, in fact, of Chiron's own free will.

Some things I would blame Zeus and the council for, such as how he withholds information from Percy to an excessive amount for long periods of time even when Percy straight up asks about things. I could easily see that being Zeus trying to prevent Percy from claiming the prophecy as his own, and I could see reasoning that maybe Chiron had sworn over the River Styx or something similar.

But those things don't apply to Chiron making such an unnecessary comment about Percy's mother so close to her "death". It doesn't explain why he would say he hoped Nico had been eaten out loud, and it doesn't cover the fact that he led children into a battlefield without telling them that's what was happening.

I think the context of Chiron's choices and comments would be different if the campers were older. If they were in their late teens or early twenties for the most part, I wouldn't really have much to say about how Chiron handled the situation.

But this man is in charge of children and extremely young teenagers, Percy is only 12 in TLT, maybe if he would have been 16 or 17 then I could give Chiron a pass, but he wasn't. Within the context of the comment he made in the Titan's Curse, Percy is only 14 and Nico is 10 at the beginning of the book... You don't wish a 10 year old had been eaten alive by a monster no matter how bad you think the alternative is, and if you do wish that you don't say it out loud to a group of other children. In the battle from Tower of Nero we get a quick look at the battlefield, and although Ben's age, and the age of another girl fighting alongside him are never confirmed they are implied to be fairly young, and we know Kayla is only 12 at the time too; yet Chiron told them it was a field trip instead of a battle, limiting the time they would have to mentally prepare themselves for what was coming.

On top of that, the nods the reader gets to the fact that Chiron can't act out against the gods depletes over the course of the series. After TLT the amount of times the situation involves the gods interfering with what Chiron is allowed to say lessens, and by the time the Heroes of Olympus series comes around, these limitations on his speech is almost entirely gone. Yet as seen in Tower of Nero he still does morally questionable things in regards to how he treats the campers.

Like I said, I recognize that in many scenes Chiron's hands are tied behind his back because of the gods.. But there are undeniably things he does of his own free will that are, in the nicest manner, very :/

This also isn't a full list of comparisons just a few notable scenes. I don't think Chiron is equally as bad as Dumbledore, but I think it undeniable that Chiron has some significant flaws built into his character design.

A good character has flaws, and there's nothing wrong with having a character that doesn't always conduct themselves properly or have good intentions- it's actually good writing, and I can appreciate that, but for some reason I find myself personally rubbed the wrong way by Chiron. This doesn't make Chiron badly written, or poorly designed, in fact I would say Rick's Chiron is very well designed in lots of ways, but I just don't like how it's never acknowledged by anyone in the series.

Like I said, I'm not starting an anti-Chiron situation, I just think little events like those mentioned, the way he's built a child army, and how he doesn't even try to plead with the gods over raising the ages on campers being allowed to battle is a little sus. But it more so bothers me that there's no attention payed to this problem anywhere in the books, not even by a side character or Luke, nowhere.

I don't actually care that much and this isn't that important to me, but sometimes people ask why I don't like Chiron and this is basically just my explanation to hand off to them... It's not even so much that I dislike Chiron entirely, he's well written and has his "good" moments, I just don't like the way other characters interact with him and his actions.

It's more a personal beef with him rather than an aspect of poor writing or him "being bad"... PJO in general (and HoO/ToA to a much lesser extent) shows that there's not such an inherent good vs bad in the world, and that sometimes people are victims of circumstances in some situations, or they're horribly misguided in their actions, but the series does a good job of showing those people as human still, and I applaud that.

I don't really know how to tie this up in its entirety, but there's nothing wrong with having a morally grey character who does questionable things and in many aspects it is good writing. I think Chiron is a result of Rick not thinking through the implications what he's doing in lots of situations, and I can see a fairly consistent drop in Chiron's characterization from PJO-ToA which is consistent with most other aspects of Rick's work.

I also want to clarify that if you like Chiron and disagree with me, that's absolutely 110% okay, I just personally dislike Chiron and that's on me. Like my problem with many of Rick's other immortal characters, I think he missed important aspects of them in some manner and slightly (or entirely in some cases) mischaracterized them in comparison to their original myths.. Some of these characters he came around on and fixed their character in many aspects to their more "correct" characterization (like Hera), while others (like Chiron and Apollo) he never quite figured them out. Which is a running complaint I have with Rick so I'm just adding this to his tab.

But yeah, I don't hate Chiron I just dislike him and those are different things, and I don't think it's a bad thing to have a morally questionable character, Chiron just personally rubs me the wrong way and I just wanted to explain that more fully because I've been asked about it multiple times.

Also I apologize for not adding a [read more] to this, it's a complaint of mine often when scrolling through the tags but I'm on mobile currently and don't have immediate access to a computer so~

[antiloreolympus]

6 Anti LO Asks

1. For me among the biggest issues with LO is it’s pacing and the contrast it has with the readers. It’s been 3 years since LO came out and there are now almost 200 chapters and yet the plot has been happening in 2-3 weeks? For a comic where there are a lot of sideplots and drama happening it sure moves in a very slow pace.. now this creates a contrast with the reader who has been reading this comic for years now.. if RS hadn’t said herself in a q&a that the timeline things have been going on is 2 weeks people would assume that this plot has been going on for at least 2 years.. As a reader with so many thing going on, so many characters being introduced and the plot moving so slow it feels overwhelming and tiring. Not to mention it is almost unrealistic ( i know that in a span of 2 weeks a lot of things can happen in real life)  and i wouldn’t say that so many things happening in two weeks is unrealistic but much rather what has been happening in LO in the span of two weeks doesn’t make sense and is out of touch. This is important bc RS claims that LO is a modern interpretation and has given the mythology an almost modern state and with the laws and everything. Persephone getting raped and then flirting with Hades and being comfortable with people and being so sexualised but only having issues when Apollos name is mentioned or he is near is not sth a SA survivor does ( again all in the timespan of 3 weeks max). Then her going on make out sessions with Hades and dancing with him and being flirty with him, and going on a rampage and killing Minthe and then acting like nothing happened and then meeting her friends and acting all too happy and buying lingerie for Hades and worrying she is not too good of a partner to him. Again these are way too many things happening in two weeks and it’s way too much emotional baggage for Persephone. If all of this has been happening in two weeks and has taken RS 3 years to upload I wonder how long it is going to take for LO to finish bc it is either going to take like 10 years and LO will have the timeline of 1 year or she’ll continue it for like 2-3 years max and it’ll only be like 6 months in LO timeline in which Hades and Persephone will probably get married (and maybe even have kids) which is problematic for so many different reasons 

2. i would have so much respect for RS if she pulled the "hades has been the evil mastermind all along" theory tbh. the absolute balls it would take to rope in millions of readers into thinking they're getting a cutesy romcom and it slowly turns into a twisted tale of greed and power and what he'll do to get it, even taking advantage of a young woman who wanted to hope he'd be her savior? Maybe even have it revealed the ~murderous~ Persephone takes over her body and is a willing weapon to evil hades? And they’re a dark, twisted romance that way? Oh it’d be so good. It’d be one of the best twists ever. she'd never ever do it, we know she wouldn’t, but in the slight chance she did? i'd suddenly be an LO fan lmao. Evil LO Hades rise 🙌🏽

3. lo hades also seems way too happy about making the dead into his slaves to not want persephone's power on his side once he realizes she has it. her queen visage is also connected to her murderous rage which tends to kill many mortals and decommission immortals, so it also connects her power being especially useful to him. also hades isnt dumb, what if he knows all those mortals died and demeter and hermes are wasting their time trying to hide it? It wont happen, but wow, what a twist it'd be.

4. the random ships in lo make no sense. why daphne and thanatos? they're only together as a plot point to persephone/apollo. wouldnt it make more sense daphne was a maiden in the TGOEM to explain why she doesnt want to be with apollo and give persephone an actual friend in the group? and there's echo. apparently rachel likes her with hera, but hera hates echo in myth? wouldnt for her non-zeus ship, hera and leto would be better? idk the random ships would would w/ actual thought put into them.

5. probs been said before but it will never ever sit right w me that persephone is depicted as a borderline child

6. i swear 98% of the dialogue in LO is stuff no one outside of middle schoolers trying to be risque would say. dos rachel actually say what she writes outloud? because if she did she'd realize how unnatural and goofy it sounds. her poor editor has the patience of a saint to not rewrite everything. also its just weird to flip flop on a lot of swears like fuck but then they use cutesy language all the time? i dont think she knows if shes writing for mature adults or 12 year olds.

[alatismeni-theitsa]

anti LO anon opinions:

(1) In fast-pass episodes Persephone became less crazymurder but more mary sue. Ahe was feeling bad that last words to them was to fuck off. And when she come to mortals she was crying and was and one of them shove her and told her to fuck off and everyone was laughing at her and one of them said that maybe they shouldnt bc shes a goddess and they were like nah less do some stupid stuff that no one in that time would do bc plot has to happen.

And one of them said what is she gonna do throw some flowers (im sure that no one in ancient times would disrespect a god) and she went on killing mode, which she docent remember bc second personality, and when she snap out of it she turn big and started crying and chasing them and saying "no dont run from meeeee" which is stupid bc everyone would be scered of chasing giant women that killed their friend.

Next she accidentally grow a giant tree and since she has no brain she instead of going away or going to her mother she try to "evacuate the mortals" but she accidentally killed them bc she said that "but they were too scared" and "I know that their deaths are my fault". So we at least don't have 'crazy murder queen that kills whole village for no good reason' but we also got 'our R e L e t A b l E mary sue is so clumsy that she killed whole village hahaHahaH'. SO there are good and bad side of this reveal.

(2) I saw one lore olympus meme in which was photo of ice king(creepy old blue guy from adventure time) and princess bubblegum in which she was sleeping and this ice king was standing in front of her trying to kiddnap her and there was written "hades and perephone now".

(3) The issue withe greek mytth retellings like BoZ is like if u defend they are ok because u set low expectations and already know is not meant to be accurate, everyone sets low bars nowdays so everyone feels entitled to do inaccurate retellings and the only thing we get from that is myths being retold over and over in the incorrect ways until nobody remembers how they were. What’s the difference between LO or BoZ or punderworld and so on? Some are ok for you others not, but all fail to be accurate

(4) you cant even praise lo for having persephone having short hair because its just designed that way so it looks like smythe. she even dyes her hair light pink according to some of her instagram photos. she really is just selling a DD/LG self insert fantasy and claiming its feminist and better than actual myth. what a joke.

(5) i find it a bit funny smythe claims to have designed her hades off mads mikkelsen because its like has she ever actually seen anything about the guy outside tumblr gif sets? hes a out-there socialist who openly hates greed and capitalism and literally only agreed to be in a rihanna music video as long as he was a rich ceo who gets murdered for his greed. if he knew about lo hades he'd hate him. also way to expose yourself that you only designed it off what tumblr wants. where's the creativity?

(6) The thing with LO is it could so easily focus on an actual women coming to her own. Psyche could be a good one actually. Instead you have Smythe butchering the powerful daughter of Demeter and Zeus into a over-sexualized child who even eight year olds are smarter and mature than. Many of the problems in LO (the creepy age gap, the power imbalance, the sexual assault, the capitalism, etc) are self imposed & i cant help but laugh at Smythe floundering because of it. She's her own worst enemy.

(7) Unpopular opinion: But I honestly prefer Gaumeo's portrayal of Hera and Zeus relationship (along with their relationship with their children) than the crap that is called Lore Olympus. HPF's Hera is portrayed in a better light (see The Switch Arc) that she is tired of being treated as a scornful Queen/evil wife of Zeus everytime he cheats on her. Gaumeo's Zeus/Hera has a somewhat better relationship with their kids (Hephaestus, good for him) even tho they might not always see eye to eye

[shadowfae]

Uhhh since you're dealing with people being jackasses: talk about a thing you've been wanting to talk about; or tell a story you've been dying to tell but haven't had a good time to tell it.

Things I want to talk about, hmmmm.

See, the twins’ birthday is on Friday, and it seems I’m writing More Porn. After that is Minos, next Thursday, and that’ll be fun because I know exactly what to write for his birthday, and that’s the fic of how he becomes a Spectre wayyyy back in the Age of Myth. (This is about Saint Seiya, for those of you who don’t follow me on my main.)

King Minos of Crete’s story is a fascinating thing. And the thing about a lot of retellings of Greek myth is that the running theme is almost always “...and the myth got it all wrong because what makes for a good story isn’t what actually happened” and that really got me to wonder how I could spin this guy into a sympathetic villain. Then, of course, I put on Gang of Youth’s Achilles Come Down and that was it, my dude.

So consider this: a young prince and his brother, being prettied up for the throne of Crete where Zeus was born in the most prosperous, if young, kingdom in the Mediterranean, four thousand years ago where this is where most human development is going on right now. That seat of power will move to India next during their Golden Age (as they don’t get their shit wrecked by Santorini and become the Atlantis myth) but for now, it’s in the sea that breathes and is as warm as a bath to dive on into, in the sea where everyone is right now.

A young prince whose brother is pretty and not much else, who knows he has to rule because while his brother is popular, he doesn’t pay attention to his studies and would drive the kingdom immediately into the ground with his enjoyment of finery at the expense of all else. A young prince who knows if he wants his kingdom to survive, knowing full well how many settlements and lives depend on Crete to run supply, that he’s going to have to do some evil and damn himself to save the kingdom. It doesn’t even matter if he wants to be king: it’s just that Rhadamanthys won’t do a good job, and there’s no way he can get him to abdicate, and good sake he doesn’t want to murder his own brother.

But then they get into a catfight over a pretty farmboy that they both like. Rhadamanthys likes Miletos’ smile and the way he talks to plants. Minos likes his wit and how he knows how to keep a farm running and what every problem’s solution is. Rhadamanthys sees a trophy to win, Minos sees an advisor. They both fall in love. Aphrodite from her throne laughs at the thought of two heroes to make a tragedy out of, and lets them start to rip Crete apart.

Minos realizes what’s going on, of course, why wouldn’t he? He wants his kingdom to survive, and this isn’t that. Good sake he doesn’t want to take Miletos prisoner, he knows how the heroes’ stories end and he doesn’t want to be betrayed. So he chases Rhadamanthys out of Crete and stuffs Miletos onto a supply ship heading into Thessaly and bids him that if he likes being alive, he should lay low and stay far from either brother, but gives him a good bag of drachmae and food anyway, and probably a scrap of parchment with an address to a temple of Demeter. Enough that he can save himself if he uses his wits, and Minos knows Miletos has wit.

He becomes king. He saves the kingdom from his brother’s idiocy, knowing Rhadamanthys will never forgive him, knowing that their warring would have destroyed the Mediterranean. This is the cost of what it is to be king of the powerhouse of the cell world. You sacrifice everything you love, everything you are, and you save everyone but yourself.

Kings and heroes have a lot alike, and Minos is a son of Zeus. It doesn’t stop him from being angry with himself. It doesn’t stop the gods from taking an interest in this plucky young man. It doesn’t stop Hera from being angry at Europa all over again. It doesn’t stop Aphrodite from being angry that he denied her the tragedy. He hasn’t proved himself, not to them. So they set him trials. Conquer this kingdom and liberate it from the evil king. Kill that monster and liberate that city from it. Do this, do that, and just when you think you’re done, someone else goes mad and starts killing their own civilians.

Minos doesn’t realize at first that he’s become a terror. That he’s the ghost king already, the one that queens and princes and servants whisper about when their king has so much of a cold. He’ll go mad one day. He’ll go mad and then King Minos of Crete will come by with his armour and his sword, high on his own heroism, walking the road to hell with the very best of intentions.

Minos will care for those kingdoms. He’ll send his advisors and sell them their necessities at half price, help the fledgling kings that rise in the throne still bloody from his conquest until they’re steady under the crown. He makes alliances and plays the game well, but he’s still killing people who never asked to be killed. Still saving people who never wanted to be saved.

He finds a wife in a nymph-goddess and he loves her, he loves her hard, and he’s still scarred from Miletos, he’s afraid to love Pasiphae even though he does with all his heart. She’s powerful, daughter of Helios who blinds him with her sunlight. He kneels before her and tells her that if anyone including himself but save his kingdom tries to take him away from her glory, he will kill them to make her happy.

He doesn’t know he’s already evil. He wants to make his wife happy, wants to not make the mistakes his father did that resulted in his existence. He wants to apologize to Hera for his birth by valuing what she does, and never doing to Pasiphae what his father did to her. He doesn’t know he’s damning himself with every move. But he swears his life to the girl of sunshine and brings her home to celebrate. Crete rejoices, they’ve always had the best of him, they’ve always loved their king who saved them and risks himself to save everyone else. He’s brought home the sun for them, hasn’t he?

They have children, his pride and joy, and he hires the best of tutors for them. He finds a son of Athena who’s known for his brilliance and pays him to teach his son, finds a son of Ares content with his spoils to teach his daughters and his youngest, loves them all and teaches them how to rule when he has to go out and save another city from a mad, dying king. So that when he gets himself killed being stupid, Crete isn’t damned and the world can run without him, because his wife and his children will continue the throne of power. They’ll run the supply lines and find a place for those who need to run, and they’ll save as many people as they can.

Hera likes him well enough for his love, hates him for what he is, hates him more for that he doesn’t understand why the mad king’s wife wants him dead. Aphrodite stings from that he earned Pasiphae’s love with a pledge he didn’t know the consequences of, that he denied her the messy child’s-love of Miletos. Zeus thinks he has farther to go. Poseidon, who Minos doesn’t love as much as his father but whose sea is the very reason he’s as powerful as he is, whose sea he loves more than most but doesn’t remember to thank, shakes the bottom of the Mediterranean in jealousy.

Poseidon makes his displeasure known. Minos appeases him, as best he can, and like every awkward nephew, asks if he needs further repayment or if he has earned his forgiveness. Poseidon smiles, thinks of how Minos does not know how the gods can suffer, and sends him a while bull that shines like the moon.

Minos presents it to his wife, thinks of the white dove that Zeus was for Hera. It’s a long habit he’s fallen into, appeasing Hera at every turn just in case. Amphitrite too, actually, and Artemis for his daughter Ariadne who loves to weave. Pasiphae loves the bull, and shows their children, and Crete understands that the gods love their king as much as they do.

Daedalus, whose son’s education Minos has paid for but who isn’t allowed his freedom to wander - he’s quite useful, and Minos has figured out that people will stay if you give them a reason to, but not that he needs to ask if Daedalus needs anything he might not ask for in supply requests - listens to Athena whispering of kings who didn’t deserve to die and kingdoms robbed of their ability to stand on their own, indebted to no one.

Aphrodite hates the pretty fantasy Minos and Pasiphae have created, hates that they have always gotten along. Hates that they still trust in the vow they made and haven’t had any reason to question. Love is suffering, love is war, and she wants them to prove that they understand her as well as they understand Hera. She goes to Poseidon, shaking with jealousy, and they hatch a plan together.

If he sacrifices the bull, he honours Poseidon. But the dreams of his sleep say that if he does not keep it to show the wealth of his kingdom, he rejects Zeus. There is no way to win. But maybe dreams are just dreams. He breeds the bull several times, to spread the wealth of the blessing to more than just himself, to honour Zeus by keeping what he can. Minos goes to sacrifice it, and finds it missing. He searches with his three eldest children and does not find it until morning, when Daedalus has put Pasiphae back to bed and has burned the contraption he made in a frenzy for his mother’s appreciation. He does not sacrifice it on time, and though he does the moment he finds it and checks that it has not been injured, it isn’t enough.

Three weeks later, they find Pasiphae is pregnant, and although Minos doesn’t quite think the math lines up, sometimes children are weird. Stranger things have happened, and it is a time to rejoice. The pregnancy is difficult, and he spends many days by her side, asking for the best physicians they can find and hopes that they can save her. They make it all the way to the delivery with her still breathing, and when the time comes, the physicians who have helped her through several births know by now to send him to fetch water from the other side of Crete to keep him out from underfoot.

He returns with water he knows they don’t actually need but is willing to fetch for love of Pasiphae, and finds that his wife is dead, and there is a curse within the kingdom that nobody knew about. He thinks of how Poseidon could have swept them all away with a tsunami, and knows that this is his punishment, not Crete’s, and he vows to keep it that way. He thinks another moment, thoughts too quick for anything but grief and shock. He thinks of how Hera might hate him now that he cannot apologize to her. He thinks of how Aphrodite ripped his family apart, and he hasn’t spoken to or seen Rhadamanthys in thirty years. And Minos realizes the question he’s always asked of why kings go mad has an answer, staring him in the face this entire time, and he’s just now seeing it.

It isn’t too late. It can’t be too late. He takes in a breath and asks to see the child. It’s... kind of cute, actually. Half cow, of course, and most certainly a monster, but it’s a baby monster, and when he reaches to hold it like he would any other child of his, it reaches back for him. He half-expected it to bite, and it doesn’t. Really, it’s acting like any other child he’s ever seen.

He swore to Pasiphae he’d keep her safe from everything, and the only thing that would sunder him from her side was his kingdom. She understood his reasons and loved him anyway. A goddess of a woman, and he’d still choose his kingdom over her.

He loved his father, and he loved Rhadamanthys, and he had chosen his kingdom. He loved the gods, as all men did. But he loved his kingdom more. This child is a monster, and monsters need to be killed. Children need to be loved, and killing a child brings down the wrath of every god he knows the name of. He closes his eyes, and opens them again. He loves his kingdom more.

“His name is to be Asterius,” he says, thinking of his mortal stepfather, who loved him more than he loved the gods. “He is a blessing from Poseidon, and though he comes with the death of our queen, we will love him as the prince he is.”

The physicians stare at him as though he is already mad. The glint in his eye probably doesn’t help. They know his words are a lie, and so does he. But sometimes it’s lies that keep a kingdom together. Crete is confused, but rejoices nonetheless, and when Asterius is put to bed, he weeps where his children can see. When he’s done crying for Pasiphae’s loss, he collects himself, and tells his children what he knows, and admits he knows the gods are trying to kill him.

Ariadne puts her hand, calloused from her weaving, on his shoulder, and twisting a spindle of thread in her other hand, swears they’ll always find a way through the machinations of the gods. Minos nods and thanks her, and is comforted by this. The vow has magic to it, not that they realize it, yet. Androgeus twists his sheathed sword and tells him that he’ll go be a hero where he can’t hurt his family, so when the time comes, he will be king and give his father a better way out. Minos looks up at his son, who looks heartbreakingly like Rhadamanthys but with all of Miletos’ wit, and knows that when there is no other option, his son will kill him as a monster, and only his family will know any different, and he will save the kingdom.

Crete has always come first. But his children love him, for they have always seen the best of intentions and only just now do they begin to see the road to hell, and they understand his determination. Blood of a hero’s blood. And by Asterius, too, blood of a monster’s blood.

The kingdom rejoices. Asterius grows in royalty and plenty, knows nothing but kindness as Minos makes it clear anyone who treats him more different than necessary can find another kingdom to serve. He slides down polished palace floors into his stepfather’s arms and Minos laughs. He dares the gods in the silence of his own mind to shatter a bond so gentle and innocent as this.

He does not forget that the gods thrive on challenge, and on bleeding out the innocent. The first assassination attempt happens when Asterius is three. Minos has the man jailed, but released when he doesn’t remember anything and can’t tell him why he wanted the young prince dead so badly. After two more, Minos orders Daedalus to build Asterius a paradise where nobody can find him when he doesn’t want to be found, where he can’t be hurt by the sight of a knife and the fear of his family. Asterius is visited every day by his tutors, escorted by his siblings, and sees the outside world only when Minos is there to ensure his safety. He loves him, and he does not want to see his youngest son hurt.

When Asterius is seven, Androgeus goes to Athens to compete in a tournament. He does not return, murdered by his own fellows in envy for his skill. Minos taught him everything he knows about fighting, and in his rage, he conquers Athens (again) and demands a sacrifice every seven years of fourteen youths and Crete will do with the sacrifices as they will. He returns home to plan the funeral and weep, and Ariadne bars his way to the throne room and starts yelling at him, tears bleeding through her voice.

He realizes what he’s done, and the implications of his words. Now everyone thinks that he’s going to feed Athenians to Asterius, all except for those who are perfectly aware that Asterius is a vegetarian, and can’t really stomach meat anyway. He can’t exactly go back on his word, it shows weakness. Kings pay for their convictions, and Crete comes first.

When he can think straight, after crying some more, they hatch a plan. Really, Ariadne is the genius here. Minos is going to go mad no matter what they do. He will have to die a villain, though she fears that with Androgeus gone, she will have to kill her father in his stead. So she proposes hiding the sacrifices in the labyrinth, so Asterius can have friends for once, and when it is time for Minos to go, they will ‘resurrect’ the sacrifices, and show that Crete once more has the blessing of the gods. Minos starts to laugh, and he laughs until his laughter turns into sobs, and he holds his daughter while his family cries.

This is what it means to be king. Crete will always come first.

They manage fourteen years of sacrifices, twenty-eight friends for Asterius who are all relieved to not be dying, who are glad to know they do get to go home one day, and are perfectly happy to keep up with the con so long as they can have some fineries they’ve never been able to reach. Minos smiles and gets them what they’d like. He can’t give them freedom, but for now, he can give them a home.

Theseus is in the third group of sacrifices, and Minos doesn’t know he’s danger. Ariadne takes a shine to him, gives him her thread that she swore to her father would always find the way through the machinations of the gods. Like every weapon, it has a double edge. By giving it to her love, by letting Aphrodite in, she sacrifices Hera. She goes to her father and asks if there’s not a way they can put on a secret wedding, so that he can still walk her down the aisle, knowing he will not be able to live to see his son-in-law free. He agrees.

They never get that far. Daedalus is bitter from the loss of his son, a messy affair that could have been rectified if he’d only asked for his freedom for a while and had sworn to keep his king’s secrets that still keeps Minos awake, crying from all the mistakes he’s made and the fact that his wife will never be able to soothe him back to sleep, and he offers Theseus a faster deal. The red shine of Ares glitters in the young hero’s eyes. The king of Crete has gone mad, and he delights in drawing out the suffering of Athens. A hero must liberate them from the evil king.

Asterius enjoys swordplay, wants to honour his big brother, is delighted that Theseus can spar with him for a while. Theseus’ blade is much sharper than Asterius has ever remembered a blade being. He dies, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Theseus grabs Ariadne, all but limp from the shock and the horror and the sudden, raw guilt of believing Theseus could love her and yet let him near her baby brother, and he runs. Daedalus opens their way, and knows exactly what he’s doing.

Minos is woken by his eldest, Catreus, who already knows what it is to be king, and he sends his father after not Theseus but Daedalus. The mastermind of the cruelty this day. Catreus orders Theseus found and brought to Crete for the crime of murdering a prince and kidnapping a princess. Minos takes up his blade and he runs after Daedalus.

He finds him not far from Sicily. It’s been months on the road, and he knows when he returns with the man’s head, he will have one night with his family, and Catreus will kill him with a kiss to the forehead and a sleeping poison to ensure it doesn’t hurt. Is it really so bad, then, that he draws it out? He wants justice for his son, he always has, but he also isn’t quite ready to say goodbye to the world, even though he knew it was coming for years. Even though he has made every preparation he can for the ending that’s inevitable. The gods win, but Crete will survive.

He wishes he could stop in Rhadamanthys’ kingdom, apologize to his brother for everything, see him one last time before he lets the gods win. He can’t. Daedalus ensnares King Cocalus’ three daughters, and when he finds him there, he accepts hospitality as one final thank you to the world. The bathwater is scalding. The princesses look at him like the monster he’s become to save them all.

Minos finds himself in the Underworld and he does not weep. Not yet. He’s still on a quest. It’s not over yet. Charon takes him to the judges’ hall, where Hades and Persephone look upon him, fascinated, tie him to a chair with chains, and ask for this story.

He tells them, and it’s not until Pasiphae’s death that he has to stop to take a breath, so the tears can fall. He chokes out the rest of the story, makes it to the end, and it’s beginning to set in that he doesn’t get to see Catreus again. He won’t see Ariadne brought home. He won’t get to tell his children that he loves them, that he’s proud of them.

Persephone fixes him with a stare so much like Pasiphae that he weeps stronger, and then forces himself to stop. When Pasiphae gives him that look, she wants him to listen, and when Persephone does it, it seems habits die long after he does. She asks him what he considers his single greatest mistake.

He’s blindsided by the question, but thinks. Starts to answer treating Athens with cruelty, pauses. He wants to make sure he gets this right. Takes a breath, and with more conviction, says that he didn’t treat Rhadamanthys and Poseidon with the same love he treated Zeus and Hera to. Persephone nods, expression stoic, and asks what his greatest achievement is.

He thinks of his love for his wife, and his kingdom. He admits that he wants to say it’s saving Crete, but it came with so much suffering that he isn’t sure it counts. And then he says that his greatest achievement is Asterius, who had everything stacked against him, but Minos loved him, and by the time of his death had never become a monster because Minos had saved him, and the only suffering there was that he would be missed and mourned by all of Crete.

Persephone smiles, just a little. She asks him one last question. If she could snap her fingers and he woke up just outside of Sicily in an inn with Daedalus dead and himself alive, would he ask her to? Would he go back?

He doesn’t need to think. Of course he would. He wants to see his remaining children. He wants to tell them that he loves them. He wants to give them a better ending to this chapter of their lives, even though he knows they’ll have to kill him for his crimes. It won’t do anything for him, not really. Not even for Crete. But he wants to save them, one last time.

She glances at Hades, who smiles for the first time since the trial began. He says that while he cannot give Minos what he deserves, not with his contemporaries so angry with him, he can offer him a choice so very few humans ever achieve. He can send him to another Underworld, held by different gods, and offer him paradise somewhere else. He will never see his family again, not even in death, but he will have a chance to rest, and celebrate, and be happy. Or, he can stay here. He can serve two gods who will never toy with his heart, so completely under their claim that no other god would dare reach for him again, wait for his family, and help them build a kingdom here.

Minos blinks. He isn’t going to be king, not here, not with Hades right there. But it’s a chance to start over, build a place of pride, and when his family returns to him, he can give them all they deserve.

He agrees enthusiastically. He would love to help. He likes building, loves seeing Crete in full festival and laughing. And it means he gets to see his family again.

A fish-god in a wheelchair and a tail for legs wheels themself forward with a metal griffon at their side, and says that the griffon will train him. This looks already better than anything Daedalus came up with, and he’s intrigued. He reaches out to the griffon to shake their paw, only to find that they are now armour, wrapped around him, wings and tassets and gauntlets and all. The Griffon Surplice laughs a little in his ear, their head his helmet and two minds right beside each other, and he smiles.

Hades welcomes his new Spectre, Griffon Minos, and Minos finds himself immediately slammed into by something twice his size. When he gets over his shock, he realizes he’s looking at Asterius, clad in green armour not all that different from his own, and he shines.

Asterius whoops that he knew Minos would stay, that he loves him, and that he thinks Minos has always been the best to him, and that while Pasiphae isn’t here, Androgeus is, and so is Rhadamanthys. Minos starts to cry again, but these are good tears.

He’s finally home.

[disillusionedmonster]

So, I have been thinking a lot lately about the Percy Jackson series and Rick Riordan, and don't get me wrong I really like the books they are one of my all-time favourite series, but I have noticed that he tends to pick the most sexist version of myths when regarding female "monsters" (this is also seen with some of the goddesses as well).

Let’s talk about Medusa for a moment. In the books both her and her sisters are evil monsters who try and trap/hunt Percy. Now for Medusa, Percy ends up cutting her head off and sending it to Zeus to make a statement. So, he is essentially using the head of a woman to make a statement, which...cool. Medusa is different to the trophies gained from something like the minotaur because she is sentient and a cursed mortal (at least that is the myth I will be focusing on rather than exploring the goddess one).

Okay now onto the original story. Obviously, there are going to be some conflicting accounts, but I don't want too dive to deep. In the original myth Medusa is a beautiful maiden and she captures the eye of Poseidon. Poseidon decides he must have her and rapes her in the temple of Athena. Now, Athena turns Medusa into a hideous monster with snakes for hair and the ability to turn men to stone if they look into her eyes. This antagonistic portrayal of Athena originates from Ovid and is not present in other works such as Hesiod, Homer and Pinda. (Ovid pulls a classic patriarchal tactic by setting women against one another to remove the blame from the men, in this case Poseidon).

So instead let us think of it this way: Athena is limited in her position as a goddess in a Parthenon controlled and dominated by violent men. She is the goddess of wisdom, so she comes up with a way to make sure Medusa can protect herself from men while also making it seem like she is punishing her. Now we move onto the next half of the story, men trying to kill her. What we have here is a classic trope in Greek and Roman mythology. A woman subverts her expected role and operates outside of social norms and as such she must be put back in her place. In myths this can end in one of three ways: forced marriage, rape, and death. Medusa ends with the latter.

Medusa means "protector" and there are many examples of her being used on shields, pendants, and vases as a symbol of protection. There is even evidence of her face being used on women's sanctuaries. If we ignore the sexist written stories for a moment and have a look at the physical evidence what we see is that medusa was a symbol of protection and was more than likely a protector of women.

Now back to Percy Jackson. Riordan took a myth of an ancient woman who was raped, turned into a monster, and then killed by a man and reduces her to a $2 monster of the chapter. He took the most misogynistic version of the story and ran with it.

Let’s talk Circe next. She turned men into animals on her island and created a separatist paradise where women were free of male violence. In the book Percy is turned into a guinea pig and Circe is depicted as an evil, man hating villainess. Circe had a good reason to turn men into animals. Much like Medusa, Circe operated outside the patriarchal expectations of a woman and as such she needs to be punished for her "indiscretions". These men are trying to rape her and despite that she shows them mercy. She does not kill them merely turns them into animals. They got off quiet light in terms of mythology really. So once again, we have a powerful woman from mythology being reduced to the most misogynistic aspects of her myth and demonised in the books. When they release the Blackbeard pirates on the poor women and girls living on the island, I always feel slightly ill. Those poor girls would have been raped and killed by them. There is no way Reyna was on their ship and not sexually used by the men.

Riordan does not shy away from darker subject matter in many of his works, but he shies away from this. Maybe I am being too harsh, it is a kid’s series after all. However, it has popularised Greek and Roman mythology again and kids will romanticise it. I sure as hell know I did. He tries to create morally grey gods, but I feel the most hated god character ends up being Hera, when honestly everything she does is the result of Zeus' ineptitude and stupidity.

He does this with other female figures in his novels as well: Hera, Persephone, Demeter, and Calypso to name a few.

I will still love and enjoy the books. I just feel like it is a little disappointing that he shies away from this topic and glosses over the misogynistic nature of Greek and Roman mythology. I do not believe the gods would have lost that disgusting trait when they moved their Parthenon to America considering that misogyny is still running rampart in not only America, but the world.

[delicatelyherdreams]

Pragma(tic) 10: She Sees the World in a New Light

Pairing: Persephone!Bucky Barnes x Hades!Reader

Summary: In a world where the old gods never truly died, you must learn to navigate your way through the ups and downs of immortality. And if living forever wasn’t hard enough, an ancient evil is now threatening to break free after centuries of silence. And as if that still wasn’t hard enough for you, now a pesky and infuriatingly handsome god is trying to wedge his way into your life. Gods, work, love, and conflict—what more could a goddess need? [Hades & Persephone AU]

Word Count: 4272

Warnings: Language

Pragma(tic) Masterlist

Previous 9: The Past Comes Back to Haunt Her

It’d been years since you’d actually gone out into the Mortal World and stayed for any amount of time. You used to make trips daily to reap your own souls before Pierce came to work for you and Clint agreed to help you out. But that was during the time of the Ancient Greeks and Romans; way before any of the modern technology came out.

Back then, people went to sleep right as the sun went down. They were quiet, reserved, timid, and shy. You were free to roam the streets of the villages, hardly a soul to join you. You’d enjoyed the silence of the Mortal World.

But now?

You couldn’t believe how much the world had changed.

The city was set ablaze with neon lights and lamps. You could hardly tell that it was nighttime anymore. People bustled around, talking to each other, talking on their phones, or not talking at all. Some walked with friends, others alone, but all were awake and lively. The colors from the street lights and glowing signs bounced off their skin, turning them different shades and making them ethereal and strange. You hadn’t seen anything like it in a long time.

Sure, Olympus had mimicked these mortal cities, but there was something unique about the Mortal World that Olympus simply didn’t have. You couldn’t quite put your finger on it, but it was beautiful and comforting and it made you happy.

The atmosphere was warm despite the piles of snow on the ground. White fairy lights were strung from lamppost to lamppost. People talked with animated gestures, a smile on everyone's face.

Sipping on your frappuccino, your eyes traveled from person to person, taking in their clothes, their hair, their facial expressions, everything. You were able to gauge what kind of a person they were within moments and garner a bit of insight into their life by mentally scrolling through the registry of souls and taking a peek at their file (that was the good thing about being the Queen of the Underworld—because every single soul was technically your subject, you were able to access every bit of their information).

A hand squeezing yours drew your attention away from the people, and you turned your eyes to the man beside you.

Bucky smiled down at you, his eyes sparkling in the dim light. “You enjoying yourself?”

Pulling your lips away from the rim of your drink, you nodded and smiled up at him. “I haven’t had a night like this in forever. I think I was in my early five hundreds the last time I got to roam the Mortal World. It’s changed so much.”

“It has, hasn’t it?” Bucky took a sip of his latte and looked forward. “I’ve been coming here for decades, and every time I come, I find it astonishing.”

“Here? As in New York?”

“Heh, yeah.” He paused as he slowed to a stop at the corner of the sidewalk, a red stop hand commanding pedestrians to halt. “Steve and I love coming to Brooklyn. We practically grew up here. My mom spent a lot of time here before it got built on, tending crops and stuff. She moved away when the city sprang up, but I still love it here.” A happy sigh escaped his mouth. “It’s a beautiful city. I love coming here, especially in the winter.”

“Do you come here often?”

“At least once a week or so. I’m considered a regular at some shops.”

The stop hand turned into a walking man and you and Bucky followed the crowd across the sidewalk. Your voice quieted as you asked, “Isn’t that dangerous though? Won’t the mortals realize you never age and get suspicious?”

He shrugged. “Some might, but they hardly pay attention enough to realize that I still look the same as I did years ago. And the ones that call me out on it, well they deserve to know the truth.”

Your eyes bulged out of your head. “You told them?”

He laughed. “Relax, (y/n). I don’t tell everyone, only some. I think I’ve maybe told five people the truth in my 1,385 years of existence, and most of them are elderly at that. In fact, you’ll be meeting one of them tonight.” His grin was sly as he tugged you across the street by the hand. “He runs a pastry shop I’ve been dying to take you to. His cinnamon rolls are the absolute best.”

You followed Bucky down the street, eyeing the path ahead warily. “So, he knows about you and what you… are?”

“Yeah. I told him a few years ago when he called me out on not aging.”

“So then he knows you’re the real ‘Persephone,’ as the mortals call you?”

He breathed a laugh. “Yes, he does. And the first words out his mouth were, ‘I knew you were a flower child,’ and the second ones were, ‘Wait, you’re not a lady.’ Gods, it was mortifying to try to explain to him that the myths were wrong and that I was, indeed, not a woman despite the feminine name given to me by the mortals.”

“So am I to assume that he knows about me too?”

Tilting his head from side to side, he pursed his lips in thought. “I think he probably knows you exist, but I’ve never had reason to tell him about Hades, the goddess of the Underworld. I didn’t think it was important or necessary until I befriended you. But I’ll introduce you tonight. He’s a cool guy, and I think you’ll like him.”

Gods, you hoped you would; but you hoped he’d like you more. Mortals were not very hospitable to the gods that resided in the Underworld and dealt with death. They were afraid of you and that made them abrasive, hostile even. The last time you told a mortal you were Hades, she blanched with fear and ordered you (the best she could with her trembling voice) out of her house.

Bucky led you through the city, down another block or two, and stopped outside an old fashioned pastry shop. The red and white awning had faded to a salmon above the store, but the gold lettering that read “Pop’s Pastries” on the window was still crisp and neat as if it had been painted on yesterday. Bright lights illuminated the shop from the inside, casting a glow over the endless display cases of pastries and cakes as well as an elderly man sitting behind the counter on a stool with a book in his hand and reading glasses slipping down the bridge of his nose.

“Come on,” he said, tugging you in by the hand. A little bell over the door jingled as Bucky pushed the door open and passed through the threshold.

The old man behind the counter looked up, his green eyes sparkling with amusement. “Well well well. Look who it is.” He fit a bookmark in between the pages of his novel and set it down so he could give his undivided attention to the pair of you. “If it isn’t my favorite celestial being. And who is this you’ve brought with you, Persephone?”

Bucky chuckled. “It’s Bucky, not Persephone, Arthur. We’ve been over this.”

“I know, but I don’t care.” Arthur’s eyes glistened with amusement. “Now answer my question: who’s the pretty lady. A goddess perhaps? She’s pretty enough for it.”

You giggled and shook your head. “I don’t know about pretty, but yes, I am a goddess.”

“Ah-ha! I knew it! Now, which one are you? No no, wait, let me guess.” He leaned back in his chair and eyed you, scrutinizing your entire figure. “You’re… Aphrodite.”

The laugh that tore through your threat was louder than you had intended and you quickly slapped your hand over your mouth. “Oh gods. I’m so sorry. I don’t mean to laugh. But no, I am not Aphrodite. That name belongs to the lovely Pepper.”

“Artemis then.”

“Nope. That’s Wanda.”

He hesitated. “Hera?”

Your lips curled up in a grimace. “No, that’s my sister’s wife Maria.”

“Your sister’s wife… You mean your sister is Zeus?”

“Carol, actually. But yes, the mortals call her Zeus.”

“So then, if your sister is Zeus, then you’re…” You could see the gears turning in his head.

You smirked. “You’ve got a fifty-fifty shot at this, mister. If you get it wrong, you’ll hurt my feelings.”

“Alright… My guess is…” He sprinted and turned his gaze up to the ceiling. “Oh, lord; you’re wearing black. You are… Hades?”

A smile took over your lips. “Ding ding ding. We have a winner.” Bowing to him with an ounce of flounce, you said, “Allow me to introduce myself. I am (y/n) Aidoneus, the unseen one, eldest daughter of the titans Kronos and Rhea, goddess of the dead and wealth, and Queen of the Underworld, at your service.”

Arthur whistled in appreciation. “Those are some pretty impressive titles, your majesty. I am honored to be in the presence of one of the big three. Just, one question.”

“Shoot.”

“Why you hanging around with a minor god like Bucky here?”

“You know, I’ve been asking myself that for weeks.”

“Hey!” Bucky narrowed his eyes. “You love me and you know it.”

“Yeah yeah yeah, keep telling yourself that, Springy.”

Arthur snickered, his voice ringing out through the otherwise empty shop. “Oh, to be young and in love. I swear you two act like an old married couple already.”

Your head snapped towards him and you lost even more color if that was even possible. “In what? No no. We’re not… I mean… No. We’re not a thing.”

“Oh, my mistake your highness,” Arthur said. “I only assumed that you were together cause Buck here has never brought anyone here unless they were special to him.”

“We’re just friends, Art,” Bucky said, holding up his hands. “Nothing more, nothing less. Believe me, I just barely got to be friends with her; she almost had my head the first couple times I broke in and she only just gave me the keys to the kingdom.”

“Ah, that is right. You were a little trespasser up until a few months ago, right?”

“Mhmm. He was.” You shot Bucky a glare. “However, I have learned to tolerate his presence in my kingdom. There are still places he’s not allowed to go, but he can come into my house so long as he has my permission first. Now.” You rolled your shoulders back and sauntered over to the display cases of baked goods. “Bucky tells me you have the best cinnamon rolls in the world and I’m curious to see if he’s right.”

Arthur popped off his stool and walked behind the cases, pulling a small plate out of seemingly nowhere. “I sure do. It’s an old family recipe, dating back to when the first cinnamon rolls were created in Sweden. I sell nothing but the best here.”

“I’ll be the judge of that.”

Arthur pulled two cinnamon rolls from behind the case and set them on two small plates that were just the size for the pastries.

Mumbling your thanks, you took your plate over to one of the tables that stood in the vacant shop. You took your seat elegantly, sitting up straight with the posture that only royalty seemed to have. Ever so carefully, so as to not dirty your hands, you wrapped your fingers around the roll and lifted it up to your lips. As soon as the sugary icing touched your tongue, you were hooked. “Oh my gods, this is amazing!”

Arthur bowed his head. “Thank you, milady. I’m glad that they have your seal of approval.” He moved back over to his spot and plucked his book from the counter. “Well, I’ll leave you two youngins to it.  I’ll be in the back reading. Holler if you need anything.”

“Will do. Thanks, Arthur!” Bucky sat down at the table across from you and smirked. “So what did I tell you? Best cinnamon rolls in the world, am I right?”

You bobbed your head as you chewed. “Yeah, yeah. I guess you’re right.” As you swallowed your bite, you dragged the back of your hand across your face to wipe away the crumbs that had undoubtedly made their home in the corners of your mouth. Smiling down at your roll, you couldn’t help but feel satisfied with your current situation, though a bit saddened. This place—as quaint and lovely as it was—felt like one you should be sharing with a lover. Naturally, the only lover you’ve ever had fell into your mind. You could just barely imagine the naiad sitting in the chair across from you, his brown eyes sparkling as you covered his nose with frosting. It would be the perfect date. You would’ve loved to have brought him here. A mellow sigh left your lips and you murmured, “Gods… Brock would love this.”

“Who’s Brock?”

You blinked. Holy fuck, had you really said that out loud? Welp, shit. Time to roll with this. You gulped. “He’s my… Uh...”

“Boyfriend?” Bucky’s voice was timid, cautious, perhaps a bit scared. He spoke the word like it was bitter on his tongue.

You breathed a laugh. “No. I don’t know what he is to me.” Your lips formed a thin line as you averted your gaze.

His brows furrowed. “How do you mean? How can you not know?”

“Well, our relationship… It’s complicated, you know? Like, we obviously have some sort of feelings for each other. He’s been there for me for centuries and he’s loved me for that long too. But it… It doesn’t feel like love exactly. I don’t know what it is.”

Bucky’s lips pursed, but he let you speak.

And you spoke. You told him about how Brock was the only one who treated you like a queen and goddess in the beginning, going so far as to pledge his undying fidelity to you and vow to serve you with his life. You hesitated as you started to get into your relationship with him, talking about the late nights you spent together with only the vaguest detail. You didn’t know why, but it felt wrong talking about it in front of Bucky, and you were almost ashamed of it. No, scratch that, you were ashamed of it. You felt like it was almost betraying him to admit what you and Brock had done in the dark. But, swallowing the lump in your throat, you continued with your pathetic tale, telling him about how in recent centuries, Brock hardly ever came around anymore unless it was to satisfy his own desires. He never stayed for the morning after or to actually talk to you anymore and it left you confused and hurt.

Bucky listened with solemn interest, staying silent until you finished. He frowned, his brows pinching together and his lips turning down with an agitated air. “Permission to speak freely?”

“Always.”

He took a deep breath before starting bluntly with, “It sounds like he’s a dick.”

You snorted.

“No no no, hear me out! From what you’ve told me, this asshole is using you and doesn’t seem to care about your feelings. All he wants you for is someone who will give him what he wants and someone whom he can just take and take from.” He shook his head with a growl that surprised you. You’d never seen the god of spring so… angry and dark. “He sounds like a dick who only cares about himself and he’s hurting you in the process. He’s using you and it’s not right. Who does he think he is to abuse a literal goddess such as yourself. You don’t deserve that shit. You don’t deserve someone who will use you and leave you. You deserve the world. You deserve all the stars in the heavens. You deserve love—not that fake lust—true love. You deserve someone who will take care of your emotions and treat you with respect and adoration. You deserve someone who will stay with you through thick and thin, treating you as if you’re a precious gem. You deserve someone—”

“Someone like you?” The words were gentle as they escaped your mouth; hopeful, sincere, begging. They surprised you, but their implications that you wanted him surprised you more. How could you imply that? You hadn’t even known each other for a year yet, and you were insinuating that he wanted a romantic relationship with you and you wanted one with him. What the fuck were you thinking?

How could you think such? You didn’t know him. He didn’t know you. He was just a friend and hardly even that. He’d only been down to your domain a handful of times.

But then again…

Each time had been more blissful and lovely than the last. Sitting with him in the garden… Strolling through Elysium… Picking flowers in the Meadow… Each time he visited drew you closer and closer to his light until you considered him close to your heart.

He turned to you, his astounding blue eyes looking at you with an ounce of surprise and, for a second, you feared you overstepped. But then his gaze turned kind and he smiled a smile so kind, so genuine, and so real that you lost your breath for a second. And he reached for your hands—both of them—and took them in his. His hands dwarfed yours, but they fit together perfectly. Holding one, he brought the other up to cup his face, to hold his cheek. He turned into you and pressed his lips against the palm of your hand.

You could feel his breath ghosting over your skin and it sent shivers down your spine in the best way.

And then his lips moved, and even the slightest twitch was enough to take over your senses. “If you’d have me,” he said softly, his voice just barely above a whisper. He turned away from your hand to gaze into your eyes. “I know I’m a young god—naive, stupid, innocent to the world—but I also know my feelings. And I do have feelings for you, (y/n). I know that we don’t know each other the best, but that’s the great thing about immortality, right? I have all of eternity to get to know you.”

You gaped at him, your mind on red alert as the meaning of his words kicked in. He wanted a relationship with you. Suddenly, your thoughts went on autopilot.

This is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong.

He was less than half your age. He was a young god. You didn’t know him. He didn’t know you. He doesn’t know what he wants.

This is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong.

What were you thinking? You’d just met him. You couldn’t possibly be interested in pursuing a relationship. You would be insane. You couldn’t take advantage of him like this, no matter how badly your subconscious wanted him. And even then, he was the god of spring, of life, and you were the goddess of the dead and Queen of the Underworld. There was no way that those two things mixed. How could they? They were polar opposites.

This is wrong. This is wrong. This is…

But what if it wasn’t? What if he wanted you just as bad as you wanted him? What if he wanted to know you like you wanted to know him? What if?

This feels right. This feels nice. This feels right.

Maybe there was a reason you felt safe and secure around him. Maybe there was a reason you called him instead of Brock when you had your nightmare. Maybe there was a reason he stayed in your mind, always lurking in the corners no matter the time of day.

This feels right. This feels nice. This feels right.

Your eyes traced his face and your heart hammered in your chest. If you were being honest, you wouldn’t mind trying to pursue something with him. He was kind, sweet, and genuinely wanted to know you. That was more than any other man had been in years.

But there were other factors than just what you and he wanted. What about the age gap? You more than doubled him in age. And then there was also the fact that you were practically ostracised by most of the gods and immortals on Olympus. Would he join you in exile from the others if he associated himself with you? And then what about his mother? She despised you with a passion, and there was no way that she would approve of you two dating. And what about…

Brock…

There were just so many fucking factors to it, way too many for you to work out in one day. You might’ve been a goddess, but that didn’t mean you weren’t without responsibilities that had to come before your love life.

You hung your head, removing your eyes from his body. “Bucky, I just… I don’t know…” you whispered, your voice cracking with strain. “How could we work? How could the world let us work? There’s just so much that needs to be accounted for and I… I just don’t see how it’s possible.”

“So long as we try, so long as we both want it… Anything is possible, really—even us being together.” He gave you a lopsided smile. “The Fates would not have had us meet if it wasn’t.”

You barked a bitter laugh. “The Fates could not be so cruel as to interweave our futures, Bucky,” you said in a shallow whisper. “It’s a curse to be stuck with me.”

“See, you view it as a curse, but I would see it as the greatest blessing they could give me. To be so lucky as to spend all of eternity with you who cares so much about people and who gives so much of herself so selflessly is all that I can ask for. You are so much more than what you give yourself credit for, (y/n). Let me be there to remind you of your value.”

“But what about Brock?”

He sighed and tightened his grip on your hand. “You can let him go. You don’t need him. He’s abusing you, (y/n), I know you can see that too. Just let him go.”

“I… I just… I can’t let him go that easily, Buck.” You hung your head. “I think that, deep down, I know the words you speak are true, but I… He’s been there for me—with me—for hundreds of years; I can’t just let him go. I know I should, but I can’t…” It was toxic, what you had with him; you knew that, but he had planted his weeds so deep in your heart that you could not tear them out so easily.

“What if I helped you?” he asked, his voice lifting an octave as he thought aloud. “I can be there for you, occupying your time so that way you wouldn’t have to see him. I have no obligations or responsibilities other than bringing Spring to the Mortal World once a year, and so I could be down there for you. No one says that you have to cut him from your life all at once; you can do it little by little and I will be there to help you every step of the way.” He bit his lip as he let go of your hand and reached up to hold your cheek.

You closed your eyes at his touch and leaned into him. His hands were worn and smooth and filled with warmth that filled you to your core.

“I can help you, (y/n), but you have to tell me you want this. I won’t make you decide one way or the other; this is your life, you’re in control. I am but a tool for you to use to help you along. You tell me what you want and I will help you make it happen. Okay?”

What you want…

You had virtually everything you could ever want: a kingdom, loving family, millions of subjects who respected you, power, wealth, good friends, the best dog ever, and security. But that wasn’t everything you wanted.

You wanted love. You’d never admitted it before, but you really wanted love. Not the stuff Brock gave you, but real love. If you remember correctly, the Greeks had given a name for the love you craved.

Pragma: long-lasting love.

You knew that you were never going to get that with Brock. You were chasing him down a one-way road that led to a dead end. There was no future of growth for you, no practicality whatsoever, only the same for years, decades, centuries to come. There was nothing more he could offer you, nothing he could give to you that you didn’t already have.

But with Bucky? Gods, there were so many options; he’d already proved to you time after time that he was invested in you and more than willing to stay with you. He’d risked getting flayed alive by his mother and his own safety just to get closer to you. With him, there was a chance that you could find what you wanted. No matter how minuscule the chance was, it was still there; a single thread hanging in the middle of the room that you were going to hold onto and climb until it either turned into rope or disappeared.

You had nothing to lose, so why not take a chance on him?

Next 11: She Takes a Stand

[reblogthiscrapkay]

Persephone in Disney’s “Hercules”

After doing my write-up on “Jasper in Deadland”, which doesn’t actually have the myth of Persephone in it but does have her and Hades as characters, I found myself thinking, ‘why don’t I do more write-ups about media that has Persephone in it even if her myth isn’t directly addressed?’ And once I had that thought, I decided I should talk about Disney’s “Hercules,” which is probably just as famous for its portrayal of Hades as it is for literally anything else about it.

I think anyone’s automatic thought when I say Persephone in Disney’s “Hercules” is that she’s not actually in the movie at all and that’s not actually correct.

I’m not crazy about her design but it’s not the worst thing. Why is she so blonde when most of the other gods seem to be more monochromatic (and as I’ve said before I’m not into blonde Persephone)? In fact, her lack of monochrome makes me wonder if they might have intended other things for her since the gods who aren’t mostly one color in general have more importance in the narrative. Also her earrings are probably supposed to be leaves but they look more like feathers to me. 

Persephone is only in the background of the pantheon scenes with her standing next to her mother in the opening scene and being one of the gods to crowd around Hercules at the end. So what is there to talk about? That. The fact that she is there and the fact that she is only in the background. This is important. In some stories this would be a minor detail that just shows that someone did their homework, but in this story where Hades is the main villain and easily the most memorable character, there’s a discussion to be had.

Before I get into depth about the villain aspect, I want to point out the fact that villains of the Disney Renaissance era are some of the most often cited when someone wants to have a discussion about queer coding in media and Hades’ name comes up basically every time. To me, he reads more like a sleazy used car salesman than a queer-coded villain (I think Radcliffe from “Pocahontas” or Ursula from “Little Mermaid” are more straight forward examples to point out for a straight audience) but there are definitely moments in the film where you can see this; his gay best friend-esque dialogues with Meg are pretty notable. That being said, this Hades being into ladies would not feel incorrect to me, a queer. Isn’t every Hades at least a touch bisexual (and everyone in Greek mythology for that matter)? Happy Pride!

So moving past the queer-coding discussion, we get to the villain issue. Giving a villain someone to love is going to change the dynamic of the villain and the story and is a really complicated choice for most writers. There’s a reason why every live action movie with the Joker in it has either had no Harley Quinn or Harley was the main character and the Joker was secondary. And they happen to be a couple with a bad relationship where you could easily have one of them throw the other under a bus if needed! Including Persephone in this story as Hades’ wife would mean that it would be really hard to make Hades the villain. In almost every medium where Hades has a Persephone, he isn’t presented as a villain but instead strictly lawful neutral, and you could still have a funny Hades who’s lawful neutral (look at “Hercules: The Legendary Journeys” or “Jasper In Deadland” for example).

Sure, there’s the option of making Persephone a villain too, but while there’s no real precedence to make Hades a villain outside of a lot of conflating him with the devil through incorrect translations and confusion, there is absolutely no precedence to make Persephone a villain. Hades’ villainy already only works in this story because they have set it up that Zeus single-handedly won the Titanomachy and assigned the Underworld to Hades, leaving him bitter about it. In some versions of the myth of Persephone, Hades’ bitterness at his lot in the Underworld is actually the driving force behind him wanting a wife in the first place. Persephone would likely be a placating force for Hades, causing the more straightforward hero-villain narrative to not work and Disney’s shtick at this time was very much about straightforward hero-villain narratives.

There’s also the general problem that Persephone’s presence would make Hades WAY too powerful as this amazing Tumblr post discusses.

So Persephone as a villain is bizarre and she would likely be a positive thing for Hades. What if they had a relationship that was bad i.e. Joker/Harley? It would be a complete Greek God couple inversion since this movie shows Zeus and Hera as a happy couple (again, the goal was to simplify; this is also why Hercules is their child isn’t of Zeus and Alcmene). Well, then you basically have the horrible “Lightning Thief” movie (which I should maybe write about some time) and honestly, I think it would read really badly. If you don’t get why, go watch that film (but don’t, it’s terrible). Hades is unique is the Disney villain pantheon because he’s so likable and while he does bad things, his motives make a bit more sense than a lot of Disney villains. I think giving him a wife who he’s mean to would not only decrease his likability substantially but I think it would also be kind of controversial. Hades certainly wouldn’t be the iconic character that he is. It would also likely distract from the amount of time he spends interacting with Meg, who is not just a love interest to Hercules but a hugely important factor in the plot. Even if Persephone is equally mean to him, I think you’d still end up in this problem of having to address how two people who hate each other ended up married and then you’re into having to pose Hades as a kidnapper who regrets his choices. Also, I think in 1997 the married-couple-who-hate-each-other trope was mercifully on its way out.

So what if Hades and Persephone are married and it’s a decent marriage but Persephone just doesn’t know about any of his evil plans? That’s workable. Hades’ original plan to kill Hercules is pretty quietly done, and his all out war plan could have involved her being cooped up in Elysium and oblivious. Heck, you could even have the movie play out entirely as is until the scene where he’s enslaving the gods and then suddenly they see each other and he’s like, “Good news, honey! Soon everywhere will be my domain and you won’t have to be cooped up underground half the year!” and she’s like, “Is this what you were planning in your office every night?! You complete idiot!” That would kind of even give Hades more motive without having to mess with Persephone’s character.

I haven’t really touched on what might actually be the most obvious answer of why Persephone is in this movie but not as Hades’ wife: that just hasn’t happened yet. I’m sure this is the argument anyone who worked on the film would make. Okay, sure, there are no winter scenes in the film, but that whole thing is implied to happen long before any of the famous demigods are born. Perhaps this is just the answer. Although I think he’d have a much harder time winning her over now after he, you know, tried to take over the world.

The life of Disney’s “Hercules” Hades didn’t actually end with the film by the way. In the television show, which would have been the perfect place to tell the myth of Persephone, Hades actually has a crush on Aphrodite instead. While it’s kind of cute to give him a crush in general, why did they give up on this prime myth real estate to make this up out of nowhere? And it did in fact make him more sympathetic, but he’s also just far less villainous in the show. Disney just can’t stop with this Hades redemption and romance arc thing either. In the third “Descendants” movie, Hades is there as Mal’s father meaning that he canonically had sex with Maleficent from “Sleeping Beauty.” I had to lie down after that one. But it’s worth noting that while he’s a totally absent father until the point that this film happens, he has his reasons, his characterization in that movie is 100% sympathetic, and he’s not a villain at all.

Gosh, Disney. Just give the man his wife already!

(And in case you were wondering, there is some really cute fan art out there of these two if you have a burning need.)

[lilacmoon83]

Finding You Always

Also on Fanfiction.net and A03

Chapter 211: Uncharted Territory

Aphrodite was lost in her thoughts, as Snow drove them to Andresia and the raven haired beauty looked over at the Goddess.

"She's wrong, you know," Snow mentioned.

"About what?" she asked.

"All those things she said. She's just being a vindictive bitch. To be honest, I can't understand why I ever trusted her. Rumple is right...she is a gnat," Snow replied. Aphrodite smirked at that.

"Be that as it may...I can't really refute anything she says. I have a feeling I don't have some of my memories," she fretted.

"Well...what do you remember?" Snow asked.

"Well…I remember just being one day, on Mount Olympus. Zeus and Athena were there and told me who I was. They said I arose from the sea foam after a great battle with the Titan Uranus. They said I was the goddess of love, beauty, passion, and procreation. But I really had no idea what any of that meant," Aphrodite replied.

"I mean...I got a lot of attention at first ,but he myths got it all wrong. I was so naive and had no concept of...um, pleasing a man," she said a bit shyly. Snow smiled.

"That kind of makes sense. I mean, most of those myths were written by old men. It makes sense that they instantly turned you into some sex symbol," Snow reasoned. She nodded.

"Anyway...Hephaestus pleaded with Zeus to let him marry me and I had no idea what any of that meant. Then Hera, who hated me too, told me what men wanted me for in graphic detail and encouraged Zeus to let him marry me," she explained.

"And don't get me wrong...Hephaestus was very nice, but I didn't know what it was to love yet. I thought Zeus was going to allow, because he liked keeping Hephaestus happy, but he refused his request. He said I was too young and innocent to marry anyone, which considering all the things Zeus did was pretty out of character for him," she said.

"He protected you…" Snow said. She nodded.

"He and Ares almost came to blows, because Ares wanted me too, which was scary and led Athena to take me away to her temple. I spent about a century there, learning my place," she replied.

"Is that when you decided you wanted to champion only the truest love?" Snow asked. Aphrodite smiled.

"Hermes helped with that. She read me love stories from the very enchanted library that we're going to visit now. I think that's what made me angry when I saw many versions of love among both the Gods and mortals that never measured up to what I believed love should be...like the love in those stories," she said. Snow shook her head.

"It always comes back to stories...to the book," she replied.

"It truly does. I almost gave up until I saw the love between Serenity and Endymion. They were in love and the mortals in the Crystal Kingdom were facing a great evil; one that Zeus refused to get involved in. That was the first of many times Hermes and I defied him," she said in amusement.

"And strangely, no matter how angry he got with me...he never raised his voice," she added.

"And you're sure he's not your father?" Snow asked.

"I'm not sure of anything really, but why would he hide it?" she questioned. Snow nodded. She had a good point there.

"After Serenity and Endymion defeated their nemesis and I presented the chalice to them, telling them of their role, I found my own love," she said.

"Anchises...the shepherd," Snow replied with a teasing note in her voice. Aphrodite looked at her.

"Yes...we both have a type, except I don't remember much at all about Anchises, except the love. The love was true and real," she replied.

"Well...it was a really long time ago," Snow offered. Aphrodite looked at her.

"Would you ever forget even one detail about Charming?" she questioned. Snow relented.

"Not in a million years," she admitted.

"So...maybe this is where Blue comes in? I mean, she had a hand in leading her dark half to you and you losing your son, which you obviously remember very clearly. What do you remember after that?" Snow asked.

"Grief...pain...isolation for a really long time. Then Seth ripping all the realms apart, his banishment, and Gothel destroying the tenth realm. Serenity and Endymion survived and relocated their displaced people near Olympus," she said.

"Then my first charges passed on, after their thousand year reign had ended," she explained.

"Then there was a second spark," she added.

"The Dragon King and Queen," Snow recalled.

"Which I had much less interaction with," Aphrodite admitted.

"Really?" Snow asked. She nodded.

"The Dragon King was a good man, but prideful. He loved his Queen very much, but almost never showed her affection in public," Aphrodite replied.

"That's terrible...I can't imagine not holding Charming's hand, not having his arms around me, not kissing him…" Snow lamented. Aphrodite smiled.

"He regime was very militaristic and his true love was not looked upon well, especially since she was from outside his Kingdom. Like I said, he was a good man, but full of pride. His Queen tamed him a bit, but he did not always have the best advisers and generals around him. I did not get to interact with them as much, simply because his court distrusted me so much. And blamed me for bringing their King together with his Queen," she said.

"Wow…I had no idea," Snow replied. She nodded.

"Their time was cut short, thanks to the Dragon and the Dark One, Xanetakos, which we now know was really Yzma in disguise," she said.

"So...if their time was cut short, then you had a time gap between them and us," Snow realized.

"About six hundred years," Aphrodite said.

"And where were you during that time?" Snow asked.

"Sometimes Mount Olympus...sometimes my Temple. The same thing everyday," she replied, realizing how that sounded.

"Like curse memories," Snow said, as she parked the car.

"But why? And who? Why would they take my memories. What was I really doing during that time?" she wondered.

"I don't know...but we're going to find out," Snow replied, as they approached the palace gates. Fandral's head Knight and right hand, a masked man, greeted them with a respectful bow.

"Queen Snow. Goddess Aphrodite," he greeted.

"Hello Knight Zorro," Snow greeted in return.

"We were hoping to see Rose," Aphrodite said.

"Of course," he said, gesturing them ahead into the garden.

"Snow! Aphrodite!" Rose called, as she and her young ones greeted them excitedly.

"Whoa…" Zorro said.

"What is it?" Rose asked.

"Well, forgive me, Your Majesty, but while I'm used to the striking resemblance between you and Queen Snow, I guess I did not realize how much the Goddess looks like you both as well," he replied.

"What?" Aphrodite asked.

"He's right...you do, except for the hair. Didn't you know?" Rose asked.

"You know, now that I think about it, you looked different when we first met. I guess I never realized there was a change," Snow replied.

"What do you mean? I've always looked like this…" she said, as she poofed a compact mirror and looked at her reflection.

"And apparently never realized that I look like one of my charges and her counterpart," she realized.

"She looked different when you first met?" Rose asked.

"Yes...maybe it was a glamor spell!" Snow exclaimed.

"Why would someone put a glamor spell on me?" Aphrodite asked.

"Probably for the same reason they wiped away a bunch of your memories. That's why we're here, Rose," Snow said.

"We think the answers to the missing pieces in her past could be in one of your books," she said. Rose's face lit up.

"Of course," she said, as she motioned them to follow her.

"It would be a very old book. It could take an eternity to find it," Aphrodite warned.

"Maybe not," Rose interjected, as she showed them an electronic tablet.

"You got everything cataloged?" Snow asked.

"During the curse. Since I was awake and there wasn't a lot of ruling to do be done under Seth, it allowed me to spend more of my days in the library. Fandral convinced Seth that an electronic system like this would help us organize the texts that he didn't want people reading and tuck them away since he couldn't destroy them. But really it just made it easier to find everything once it was cataloged," Rose said.

"Now, sometimes hundreds of new books appear each day so there's always still plenty of work to do, but the majority, even the ancient stuff, is now cataloged," she explained.

"That's wonderful…" Snow gushed.

"I'm a little surprised that Hermes hasn't helped fill in your memories though," Rose mentioned.

"You know Hermes...she travels a lot and I know she'd tell me if she knew anything," Aphrodite replied.

"Which makes sense that maybe any memories concerning your life were erased from her too. What about Athena?" Snow asked.

"She either doesn't know or something has forbade her to tell me," Aphrodite replied.

"Well, then we need to find the answers on our own," Rose replied.

"And we will," Snow assured.

"If my memories really are missing...then maybe I am cursed. James...he could be in danger just by being with me. What if the Horned King was right?" she lamented, but they put their hands on her shoulders.

"You are not going to lose James," Snow insisted.

"She's right...true love is stronger than a curse and we all know that," Rose assured her, as they went into the library with the children to begin their search for answers.

~*~

David hopped off the Jolly Roger, followed by Emma, Xander, Hook, James, and Fandral, who had met them at the Harbor after David called him.

"This place...never changes," Xander commented, as they walked from the docks and onto the island mainland.

"As much as we hate it...I suppose everywhere has a place like this. Boston had places too that were no picnic," David mentioned, as they approached what appeared to serve as a Main street of sorts. It was lined with bars, clubs, and brothels, as well as an open market that was selling a number of goods.

"Ten bucks says most of those goods are stolen and there's drug trafficking going on at most of those kiosks," Emma said.

"No need to take that bet," Xander said, as he swiped his finger along one of the counter, while getting a glare from the owner. His finger was colored pink.

"Well, it's not white powder so what exactly is it?" she asked.

"Poppy dust. Like cocaine, back in our land, it was ground up and sold. If you sniff enough of it or roll it up and smoke it, you'll get a high like you wouldn't believe," he replied. She sighed.

"I thought Seth destroyed all the poppies," Emma said.

"Around Mount Olympus...but Aphrodite says they'll grow anywhere there's an exorbitant amount of evil," James said, as he pointed to the body they had come for. The poor man, though he was likely no angel, was still laying in the street. No one cared enough to cover him and he had clearly been walked over and jostled in the dirt.

"Okay...now I'm really glad we didn't bring Mom or Eva on this one," Emma said. It was too much. The level of cruelty and bad emotions would have been overwhelming for Eva and her mother as well. While she knew both of them were tough as nails, she and her father still did their best to protect them from this level of cruelty and evil when possible. Which they realized seemed silly since they had stood against Seth and some of the worst alongside them. But this place was decidedly something they hoped they never needed to see.

"He did this…" David said.

"Most likely, but we probably can't be sure until Bashful does an autopsy," Emma replied.

"Yes we can...because he left me a message," David said, as he put a glove on and brushed some dirt away from beside the body, before extracting a smashed and now dead snowdrop flower.

"Damn him…" Xander cursed.

"A snowdrop…" Emma said.

"He's taunting me," David said, as he stood up and looked around.

"It's like I can feel his eyes on us. He's here...watching us," he added.

"Knowing that psycho, he'll manage to get eyes everywhere," Fandral warned, as they put gloves on and ignored the stares they were getting, as they put the body in a body bag for transport.

"Can I help you?" David asked irritably, as one man decided to approach.

"Just hoping you finish picking up the trash, Your Majesty...because your kind ain't wanted here," the man said.

"Like I give a damn. Now, go back into your tavern," he snapped.

"This is Pleasure Island, Sheriff Charming...and we don't obey your laws," he refuted.

"Yet...but believe me, I'm going to find a way to clean this cesspool up, so enjoy it while you can, Mr…" he said, as he paused and glared at the man.

"No need for the Mister...I just go by Grimm and I'm a simple man, trying to run a business," he replied. David smirked.

"Grimm...something tells me with a name like that what you're into is far from simple," he replied. Grimm glared at him.

"Because of men like you. Lawmen...royals, who come and throw their weight around and impose their will on the little people," he said.

"I'm well aware that back in our land there were royals and lawmen that weren't kind and fed their own interests. But that's not me. All I care about is the safety of the people of the United Realms," David countered.

"Well...you have your body so maybe it's time you get back to the people you actually care about and not us...bottom feeders. That's what we are to you," he hissed.

"I have the body, but I don't have the killer," David said, as he pulled up a photo on his phone.

"Seen this man?" he asked.

"Sure have...I gotta say, watching your cat and mouse game with the doctor is satisfying. All that power and you still haven't bested him, though if you ask me, that Queen of yours is a bit more trouble than she's worth," he mentioned.

"No one asked you...where is he?" David demanded to know.

"Around...I suppose I get it though. She is a beauty and so is her product," he leered, as his eyes flicked to Emma. That was a huge mistake, as David punched him in the face and shoved him away. Xander stepped in and put a hand on his son's shoulder, as some of the other men around started to move in. He was having none of it and pulled the chalice sword from its sheath.

"Don't get stupid," he warned. It wouldn't operate at full power in a place like this where magic was suppressed, but it would still do its job.

"Dad...as much as I'd like to arrest this entire island, we need to go," Emma urged.

"She's right...they're never going to tell us where Jekyll is," James agreed. David hated this. He wanted nothing more than to find Jekyll at that moment and end him, but he knew it would never be that simple. He had found the perfect haven to hide and plot his revenge. He was already taunting him and probably enjoying his frustration right now. He relented and sheathed his weapon, as Xander and James hauled the body bag back to the ship.

"Have a good day, Sheriff Charming and kiss that pretty wife for us all, especially the good doctor!" Grimm taunted. David was practically boiling in his own skin, but Emma took his arm and led him back to the ship.

"Don't do it, Dad...he's not worth it," she said.

"I know, Em…" he said, with a sigh.

"She's right mate...Grimm is a bottom feeder for sure. His establishment has it all. Alcohol, gambling, drugs, prostitution and a dozen other things I pretended to ignore in the times I frequented his place in my past," Hook advised.

"Do you know much about him, beyond his tavern?" Emma asked.

"Not really. Pleasure Island is full of outcasts though. He hates royals and anything good. I've never been privy as to why," Killian replied.

"His name is Grimm though...it's curious," Xander said.

"Maybe Rose can find more on him. He seems to have supporters," Fandral mentioned.

"Oh he does...like I said, this place is full of outcasts and they ran rampant during Seth's reign. Before all this, they kept to themselves, but now that a sense of law and order is back...we may have a lot of problems from him and his cohorts," Killian said.

"Great...more troublemakers. Like we don't have enough trouble," she replied, as they boarded the Jolly Roger and Killian set sail back to Storybrooke.

~*~

They arrived back at the stables and dismounted the unicorns.

"Wow...that was easily the most amazing thing I've ever experienced," JJ said..

"I thought you might like that. We can go anywhere you want next," Summer replied.

"So...it's all real. Like the castles, the Emerald City, even Neverland?" he asked.

"Yes, I can show you around Misthaven if you want and Oz is real too. Most of Neverland isn't pleasant, except for Tigerlily's island. She's a very good friend," she replied.

"Well…I'd love to meet her," he said.

"Okay...we can go now. I'll just text my parents and tell them I'll be home later," she replied.

"So...you're going to Boston with them tomorrow?" he asked.

"I am...will you be going back there? You probably have a job to get back to," she said, a bit sadly.

"I do...unless you think the hospital is hiring here," he mentioned. She looked at him in surprise.

"You want to work here?" she asked. He shrugged.

"It sounds exciting, but I think I'll wait and just tag along with you tomorrow, if you don't mind. She smiled.

"I'd like that," she replied.

"Elsa and I have to get back, but go ahead and take Pegasus to Tigerlily's island," Leo said, as the winged horse landed beside them.

"Wow…I think I'll let you steer," JJ said, as she mounted the animal and he got on behind her, before holding on. The animal soured into the air, as Leo and Elsa watched on.

"I think your little sister is smitten," she mentioned and he sighed.

"Yeah…I guess it was bound to happen and he seems nice," Leo mentioned.

"Wow...that's a really mild reaction," she said. He chuckled.

"As long as she's happy and I doubt he'd hurt her, unless he has a death wish," he replied. She chuckled.

"Very true," she replied, as they headed home to Arendelle.

~*~

Jekyll chuckled, as he watched Charming make a spectacle, just as he knew the Prince would. It was a very good thing. He normally worked alone, but having potential allies in the riff raff on this island could prove to be very useful, indeed. He exited his lab and made the trek to Grimm's tavern.

"That was quite a show," he said, as the bartender gave him a weary look.

"I took a punch for you, so I expect some kind of repayment, like making that hotheaded pretty boy pay," Grimm said. Jekyll smirked.

"Oh don't worry...I plan to eventually burn Charming to ash, but it's far too much fun playing with him like this and making him fear me for the sake of his lovely Snow White," Jekyll said, as Grimm poured him a drink.

"It is refreshing to see someone finally stick it to those royal goody goodies," he agreed.

"But all this to possess a fairy tale princess? They are a dime a dozen in the United Realms," he mentioned.

"Oh no...not like her. Even her counterparts can't quite measure up. Sure, one is an actual Goddess and Rose Red comes close as well. But Snow White...she is perfection, even when she's not," he said.

"She is under my skin in a way that I cannot shake and I will break them down until she is ripe for my picking and he is crushed beneath my boot," he hissed, as he finished his drink and returned to his lab to continue his work.

~*~

"Zella...you just got released from the hospital...and forgive me, but this is the kind of thing that got you admitted to the mental ward in the first place," Lucifer fretted, as Drizella examined herself in the mirror.

"Relax Lucifer, I've been given a clean bill of mental health and I am in full control of my mental faculties now," she said.

"Then why are you being fitted for a wedding dress?" he asked.

"I told you...I'm just planning for my future. My future with Prince Charming," she replied. Lucifer sighed and went to get Rodmilla, hoping she would come and talk her daughter down. Things were not good for her either these days. Thanks to Snow White's darker half, she had gone from living in a mansion and a large bank account to living in a tiny apartment and working as a seamstress in this very store.

They had all been surprised to find out that Drizella had a counterpart that was stable and reformed, but the confusion was saved when the other Drizella decided to keep her curse name and now went by Ivy, as her birth name held too much pain for her.

"Drizella...what are you doing?" Rodmilla demanded to know, as she came into the dressing room.

"Relax mother...I'm just trying it on. Is that so wrong?" Drizella asked, as she exited the dressing room so she could use the large mirrors to look

"You see...the old, troubled Drizella would have run out into the streets in search for her dream groom, Prince Charming himself. But I told you that I'm mentally stable again," she said.

"Then you are no longer going after Snow White's husband?" Lucifer asked.

"Oh…I didn't say that. But that little bitch has utterly destroyed this family and left us in ruins. She humiliated me on numerous occasions, took our family fortune and our mansion, forcing us to live in squalor, and made a mockery of us," she replied.

"Meanwhile, she lives in a literal castle, has true love with her Prince Charming, and has turned most of her enemies into friends, including the Evil Queen herself. The entire United Realms looks to her as their Queen, but what is Snow White without the Evil Queen?" she asked.

"Drizella...while I agree that Snow White deserves to pay, we must abandon that road to revenge. We do not have the power or magic needed to face her, not to mention her litter of magical brats," Rodmilla reasoned.

"Very true, mother…" she said, as she stepped to the window and saw him in the town square. He appeared to be with his eldest daughter and a few others, including his counterpart and twin. It was definitely a treat for the eyes, but her desire for him went further beyond the physical, for the other two paled in comparison.

"That's why...I need magic and then a new Queen can be born. And this time...this Queen will make sure she puts Snow White back in that glass coffin...for good," Drizella said. Rodmilla and Lucifer exchanged a wary glance. It was clear that Drizella was still very disturbed.

~*~

Snow idly flipped through a large tome. They had isolated all the very old texts that were both still in Greek or Latin. Then Aphrodite had used magic to translate them all, but searching through them was still a huge undertaking. She didn't mind though and Belle had expressed an interest in joining their search as well, so she was going to drop off some books to her on the way home.

"Nothing…" Aphrodite said in frustration, as she closed her book and huffed, as she stood up.

"We can't give up...we've barely scratched the surface," Rose admonished.

"I know...I'm just impatient. I just can't shake the Horned King's words and if James really is in danger from me, I need to know," Aphrodite fretted.

"You are not a danger to James...I don't care what he said. Love is always worth any risk and I'm sure my brother-in-law would agree," Snow admonished. She sighed and sat back down.

"I know...you of all people have faced losing the man you love more than anyone should have to. It's suffocating," she admitted. Snow nodded.

"It is, but trust in love. Even in the darkest moments, it will shine through," she promised the Goddess. Aphrodite smiled.

"Thanks...but it's getting late in the day. I saw we stop for the day and each take our books home for later," she suggested.

"That's a good idea and Charming must be close too. We'll drop off this pile for Belle on our way to Granny's," Snow said, as her heart fluttered and her husband entered the library with Fandral and James. She smiled at him and saw him stride purposefully toward her. She welcomed his arms and his kiss, as she lost herself in him momentarily.

"Everything okay, my love?" she asked, as their lips parted. He nodded.

"Yes…Pleasure Island is just a very dark place, but you're my light in any darkness," he replied and she practically melted against him, resting her head against his shoulder.

"Oh baby…" she gushed, as she brushed a hand along the back of his neck in a soothing manner.

~*~

"Did you find anything?" James asked curiously, as their lips parted. Aphrodite sighed.

"Not yet...but I have plenty of homework to take with me," she mentioned, gesturing to the stack of books.

"That looks like fun…" he muttered

"Does that mean you'll help?" she asked. He rolled his eyes.

"You know I will if it's important to you. But I just hope you know that what's in your past is irrelevant to me. I love you, no matter what," he replied.

"I know...I just have to know. Something isn't right and there's a chance that I could be a danger to you," she lamented. He cupped her face in his hands.

"You are not a danger to me...you are not cursed," he insisted. She sighed.

"Maybe...but I still need to know what is being hidden from me," she said.

"I agree...and that's why I'll help read through all of this," he promised. She smiled and kissed him again.

"Thank you...and I'll make it worth your while," she whispered to him and he smirked.

"You always do," he said, as he picked up the stack of books.

~*~

"Was it bad?" Rose asked, as their lips parted.

"I have seen a lot of villainous places before in my time and it was definitely up there with some of the worst," Fandral replied.

"The victim I'm sure was far from innocent, but it was definitely Jekyll," he added.

"You're sure?" she asked worriedly. He nodded.

"He left a snowdrop on the body, I'm afraid. He is clearly taunting David," he replied.

"He will hide for now, but we will get him," he assured, as they kissed again.

~*~

Blue stormed into the hospital later that night, bringing one of the few fairies that still revered her as the true head fairy.

"What are we doing here?" she asked. She had white hair with pink streaks.

"There is someone I must see. He has secrets that he must help me keep from being unearthed," Blue said.

"Did you bring your wand, Opal?" she asked. The other fairy nodded.

"Yes," she answered, as they arrived at the door that led to the basement. The mental ward.

"I need in here," she said and the other fairy zapped the lock, allowing them in and they took the stairway to the basement. Opal followed Blue to the third cell and she peered in on the comatose King George.

"He's been a vegetable for years...I don't see how he would have any answers for you," Opal commented, but Blue took her wand and used some of the magic. Awareness filled George's eyes and the cell snapped open, allowing him out.

"Blue Fairy…" he uttered.

"We need to talk about your son," Blue said.

"My son is dead," George replied.

"Not anymore...you've been out of commission for many years and Zeus gave him a second chance at life," Blue explained. George was stunned.

"Why would Zeus do that?" he asked.

"You know why," Blue replied.

"Then she's here…" he realized and Blue nodded.

"And she's asking questions. The bimbo has finally noticed there are noticeable gaps in her memory," Blue said.

"And James?" he asked.

"He had no inkling, but if he got his memories back then we both know he could break her curse and she'll know everything," Blue replied.

"And everything we did will come to light," George realized.

"And we can't let that happen," she said.

"My James is alive…" he uttered in awe.

"And he's happy?" George asked.

"Yes, he's happy, but you never cared about that. You didn't want him with her either," Blue replied.

"I didn't, because I feared for his life with her...I took her away and his memories and turned him into what I wanted him to be. And then it got him killed anyway. Perhaps I was wrong," George lamented.

"You can't be serious...it was your idea to keep them apart," she reminded him.

"It was and if Zeus knew what we did, he would have struck us both down," George said.

"Zeus is dead...we will have no interference from him," Blue replied.

"No…James is happy and I won't interfere with that again," he refused.

"And if he finds out what we did...he'll hate you!" Blue warned.

"You promised my Kingdom prosperity if I helped you. Instead, I destroyed my son's life and lost my Kingdom to his twin brother and Princess Snow White," he called.

"In time...James may be able to forgive me if I attempt to make amends and tell them everything. But you...well, I suspect the Goddess will send you to the Underworld for everything you did, because you did unspeakable things to Aphrodite long before my time," George warned.

"Well...then I guess I have to make sure you can't tell your son our secrets. It's not like he or anyone else will miss you," Blue said savagely, as she struck the elder King with the magic of the wand. His face was alight with surprise, as he fell dead to the floor. Opal cried out in horror and was stunned by Blue's cruelty.

"Help me put him back in the cell," she snapped.

"You...you killed him," Opal uttered.

"He was a vegetable before. His death will be surprising to no one...unless you open your mouth," Blue replied, as they placed the body in the cell.

"The...the others were right about you," Opal cried. Blue sighed.

"And here I was hoping that I could count on you," she said. Opal didn't have time to scream, before the magic of her own wand hit her and stopped her heart.

"Now to make this look like an accident," Blue muttered, as she used the wand that was now hers to poof the body away. She then used the wand to disappear. She was certain now that no one would discover her secrets.

~*~

The sheets rose and fell, as the bodies underneath were entangled in the throes of lovemaking. Snow lay atop her husband, kissing him deeply and riding him in a sensual dance that had them lost in ecstasy. After leaving Andresia, they had enjoyed dinner at Granny's with their kids, before bringing Bobby and Summer home with them to their castle. They got their excited kids settled for the night and then were left their own devices, which as usual, led to amorous activities. They were glad to lose themselves in each other, for tomorrow morning, they would board the Jolly Roger and make good on their promise to work with Major Donovan. And facing a world that knew about them and who they were was not at all appealing. But as always, they would face it together.

As they collapsed together, David kissed her forehead and then rolled them over so she was beneath him, as he proceeded to kiss her again amidst the afterglow.

"So beautiful…" he rasped, as he kissed her throat and moved his way down, with her body writhing with every touch of his lips. The trembling in their bodies started to calm and Charming pulled himself from her depths, before settling beside her. Her green eyes flicked to his blue ones, as she remained facing him and pressed tightly against him.

"Are you worried about tomorrow?" Snow asked.

"A little…" he replied, as he kissed her palm

"But I think I'm more worried about what I found today," he admitted.

"Then the body you found...you didn't say so earlier, but you think Jekyll killed this person," she stated.

"I know he did...and probably just to send me a message. I found a snowdrop on the body," he revealed and she sobered at that.

"I feel like a failure...but I suppose that's exactly what he wants me to feel," he lamented.

"You are not a failure...you're my hero. You always are," she insisted.

"I know...I just don't know how I'm ever going to relax until I know he's dead and can never hurt you again," he replied.

"And you will. We defeated Seth and that's why he's hiding, probably holed up in some lab somewhere like the snake he is. He knows that facing you head on is an impossible win for him," she reminded him.

"Which is why he's experimenting with who knows what kinds of concoctions or drugs. The thought of him using something to torment you...I can't sit still," he said.

"And I worry about the same for you. I worry that he will use one of his drugs or creations to hurt you without even touching you," she replied.

"It's exactly what he wants," he realized.

"It is and though we won't be able to completely rest with him out there, I know we are both trusting in our love and really sticking it to him by being together and happy," she reasoned. He smiled and kissed her.

"I suppose you're right," he said. She smiled.

"I am in bed with my handsome husband, my Prince Charming, who just made incredible, passionate love to me and left me breathless and took me to the stars; something only he, being you, will ever do," she replied.

"And now, he's holding me in his arms and there is never anywhere else that I feel the most safe than his arms, he being you," she added.

"Our heart, that we share, beats in sync and my soul is entwined with yours. We're unbreakable...our love cannot be torn asunder. It's not possible and that's how I know peace," she said.

"Have faith...guess I need to take my own advice," he replied.

"Mmm...that's not the only thing I want you to take," she purred, as she hook her leg on his hip and watched his eyes glaze, as his body reacted to hers.

"Well...then I better not disappoint you, my darling," he said, as he rolled her onto her back.

"Oh, that's not possible with you, my love," she said fondly and then knew nothing but sheer pleasure and passion once again.

~*~

"And if you're just joining us, the world is still reeling from recent revelations that we are not alone in this world and no, we aren't talking about beings from another planet. We are talking about people from other places, whether you want to call it alternate dimension or universes, these people are those, until three days ago, that we thought to be fiction. Most of them were found in fairy tales, legends, and myths. And it's all been in this book," the reporter said, as she held up a white paperback book with the words Once Upon a Time emblazoned on it.

"Once Upon a Time, which was published more than seven years ago by a mysterious Henry Swan, is not the work of fiction it appears to be. We still have too many questions to name and our heads are still reeling from the battle just a few days ago. A battle where we saw magic and fairy tale characters save the world. While they are hardly the conventional super heroes we are used to seeing, the world is quite obsessed, whether it is with love or hate," she continued.

"According to various social media outlets and conspiracy theorists, who have now become the voice of reason, the leaders of these mysterious people will walk among us tomorrow. Word has it that they will arrive in Boston to meet with leaders of our country and the FBI. People are already in the streets to either welcome them or protest against them. Rest assured, no matter your views, we will be there to cover this historic event,"

At that point, the man listening to the broadcast muted the television and sipped at his expensive brandy. He was tall, with slicked back brown hair and chiseled features and hazel eyes.

"You've had the news on twenty-four seven for three days. They keep recycling the same story," a woman mentioned, as she entered. She was a beautiful blonde, with blue eyes and dressed in cargo pants and a khaki button down shirt.

"Digging in the dirt again?" he teased, noticing her dusty appearance.

"It was worth it. The jade I managed to get is a small fortune alone," she mentioned, as he poured her a drink and she accepted.

"Yes...another Jade mask and more ancient relics. The envy of any explorer...yet all the true treasures lay just out of our reach," he said angrily, as he finished his drink.

"Relax…" she chided.

"How can I? Even with this exposure, they are out of my reach! And it's my legacy!" he said. She sighed.

"That legacy and that collection is ultimately what got your father killed...both times," she reminded him.

"I don't need reminding or a lecture. All the reminder is right there," he hissed, as he pointed to the television that was showing various images of the two people known as David and Margaret Nolan, whom the world had just discovered were actually Snow White and Prince Charming. True loves, saviors of the world...and the reason for his father's demise, both times.

"The treasures from my father's collection...nothing in this world can compare to what's in Storybrooke," he lamented.

"Well, I'm no stranger to a good heist. We've done plenty of them, but we're talking a place with magic. We'd never make it past town square, let alone get to the Atlantis museum," she mentioned.

"True, but we would have a better chance if I had access to my legacy; my father's operation, which rests in that woman's hands," he said, pointing at the television, which now had an image of Major General Patricia Donovan, senior military official and FBI insider.

"So you still think she killed your sister?" the blonde asked.

"It's the only way she would have ever gained access to my father's operation. Cecily would have never just given it to her. No...she's the first step in getting back what's mine," he said.

"Then I guess we're going to Boston. Can I at least shower first?" she asked. He smirked at her.

"Sure...but you're a vision even like this," he replied. She rolled her eyes at that.

"You just want sex later," she retorted, as she made her way to the bathroom.

"Guilty," he agreed, as she went into the bathroom and he picked up his phone.

"Fuel the jet and tell the pilot we are leaving for Boston within the hour," he said to his assistant.

"Of course, Mr. Clayton. Just you and Ms. Zearing?" the assistant questioned.

"Yes...just the two of us," he replied, as he hung up and poured another drink.

~*~

The Jolly Roger made port in Boston that morning about nine, making the mere two hour journey from the United Realms. Thankfully, Patricia must have managed to make some kind of agreement with the Coastguard, because they were not chased into the Harbor this time. But the docks were crowded with spectators of all kinds, including apparent fans and protesters. The police were keeping them back at a safe distance, but the whole scene was surreal and a bit frightening.

On this trip, all five of their kids had come with them, plus Killian, Xander, Regina, Robin, Roland, Rumple, Belle, and Gideon. Everyone else had stayed behind for now, as they really had no idea how any of this was going to go. But by the looks of the crowd, the hype over them was definitely not going away anytime soon. Nora and JJ had accompanied them as well, as Boston was their home, though such would probably not remain that way for long.

"You're kind of famous it seems," JJ teased lightly and Summer smirked.

"Oh goody...that's going to be so much fun," she commented.

"Well, the fans have to be better than the haters, right?" he asked. She snorted.

"I wish...the fans can be worse. Trust me, my parents get way too much attention from both haters and fans. The haters usually just spout their hate verbally, but never much else, with a few exceptions. But the fans turn into stalkers like Drizella Tremaine and Dr. Jekyll," she replied. He nodded.

"Good point," he agreed.

"Ugh...look at those idiots. A bunch of bored housewives obsessed with a phony love story," Nora said.

"Phony?" Summer asked sharply. Nora smirked.

"Don't both defending your parents true love, sweet cheeks, because it's all a farce or it should be," Nora said.

"You may have come from true love, but I came from the opposite. One drunken night with two broken people, but because you came from true love, everyone believes you're special," she continued.

"But that kind of love doesn't belong in this world. Love may exist in the United Realms, but it doesn't out here. That's why you have bored housewives pining for something they'll never have. It's sad," Nora said.

"Love is not sad. My parents give people hope," Summer argued.

"Hope is a lie and their love is unattainable by most, yet people celebrate them. But some of us know the truth. That your world and this world will never mesh. Your world doesn't belong in this one," Nora said.

"Well, we're here so deal with it," Summer retorted.

"Oh I know...you've stolen my cousin from me. The only family I have," Nora replied.

"She hasn't stolen me, Nora," JJ snapped.

"Oh, so you're not moving to magic town?" Nora questioned and he went silent. She scoffed.

"That's what I thought. See you around," she said, as she left.

"I'm sorry," Summer said.

"Don't be...this is nothing new with her," he replied, as he walked down the gangplank and then offered his hand to help her. She smiled and accepted it.

"This is insane," David commented, as he hopped down from the gangplank and then held Snow's hand, before lifting her down, which seemed to make some of the crowd go crazy.

"Why are they so excited?" he wondered and she smiled at his obliviousness.

"Well...you're Prince Charming and you just did a very Charming thing," she replied.

"What? Helping you down?" he asked.

"Why wouldn't I?" he added.

"Well, you would, because you're you and I hit the lottery in the husband department. A lot of women don't. For many people in this land, romance and love fade over time. But you and I never leave the honeymoon faze," she explained fondly, as she nuzzled her nose against his.

"My love and passion for you will never fade," he promised, as he kissed her and that seemed to make the crowd go crazy too. Which annoyed him.

"Yeah…that won't be annoying or anything," he said, as she chuckled and hooked her hand on his elbow, just as Patricia approached.

"Oh, this is funny to you?" he asked. She chuckled.

"A bit…" she admitted.

"Please tell me we're not having a meeting here," he said.

"Don't worry...I have cars waiting to take us to the Boston headquarters," she said, as they all got into the cars and arrived at headquarters shortly.

David had been there before obviously, but the last time he was, he didn't have his memories. So walking in and receiving stares from former co-workers was unnerving to say the least.

"I feel like we all have giant heads or something the way they're staring," Killian muttered to Emma. She smiled.

"Yeah…I hate the attention and I know dad does too, but at the same time, I want to know how this woman got access to Clayton's entire operation," she whispered back. He snorted.

"Probably not legally. I know your parents are above doing anything shady and we love them for that, but I think if we have the opportunity to get it all back, then we do it and lock the world out," he mentioned.

"I've already talked to Gold and it's definitely on the table. Mom and Dad will agree if they see a threat. They're ready to protect the United Realms," she assured.

"I don't doubt that, love...we just know they have a habit of being very forgiving as well," he warned.

"I know...but I think they've come to terms with their darker halves too. I don't think they'll be as apt to ignore them now," she said.

"Fair point," he agreed, as they followed the Major into the conference room and she shut the door.

"Before we go further...there's one thing I need to know," David stated.

"Ask away," Patricia replied.

"Did Cecily Clayton die so you could get access to Clayton's operation?" David asked.

"She did, but she was far from innocent and I didn't hesitate putting a bullet in her skull and feeding her the alligators," she replied bluntly.

"Oh my God…" Snow cried.

"I know that is blunt and cold, but trust me...I did you a favor by getting rid of her. She would have been out for full fledged revenge on all of you, especially you two," Patricia warned.

"Maybe...but it's hard to trust you when you've committed cold blooded murder," David replied. She smirked.

"And yet you trust the pirate, the queen, and the dark one implicitly," she countered.

"Bloody hell...she has you there," Killian quipped, earning him a nudge from Emma.

"Okay fine...but they've earned our trust over time. You have yet to do that so let's be up front. What do you want from us?" David asked, as they all took seats.

"When I first took over Clayton's operation, my goal was to gather information. That's what I do for this country. I gather Intel. But I soon realized that Clayton's operation goes far deeper than just his collection of magical items and beings," she replied.

"You mean the network of investors he spoke about and that we met when we were captive in Atlantis," Snow said. Patricia nodded.

"Clayton is dead, but his network is very much alive," she said.

"We know Cecily was smuggling ancient artifacts for his museum in Seattle," David replied.

"Oh, but it's much more than that. His investors come from all walks of life. They're embedded everywhere and now that your existence has come to light, they will do what they must to keep their secretive dealings a secret," she said, as she pressed a remote and the screen lit up with a ton of Intel and information.

"Illegal smuggling of artifacts is just the beginning. He had dealings with human traffickers, arms dealers, drug cartels, prostitution rings, and this world's worst scum," she said.

"And you want us to help take down Clayton's operation?" Xander asked.

"Yes...and you of all people know how dangerous he really was," she replied, as their eyes met in a cool stare.

"Now that everything's out in the open, I'm almost certain they'll try to get into the United Realms and someone will want everything in that museum. But we all know they won't stop there," she said.

"It's Atlantis all over again. They want their playground back and we're their toys," David said. She nodded.

"Where do we even start?" Regina asked. Patricia pressed a button on the remote and the image of a man appeared on screen.

"With Clayton's son…" she revealed, shocking them all...

[vivo-morior-iterum-vivo]

Gotham and Greek Myths

I know there was already some discussion on this when Jeremiah originally turned up on the scene, but I'd like to touch on it once again, because I love mythology and also we've gotten to see a little more of Ecco in the latest ep.

I do feel that while crafting the characters Jeremiah and Ecco the Gotham writers fell back on some Greek Mythological influences. Just in case people aren't familiar with them I will be recanting, abbreviating and breaking down some Greek myths for this post. Most notably the myth of the Minotaur, and how he relates to Daedalus, Theseus and too a lesser extent Icarus and following through on that Echo and Narcissus (guess where that's going ;) 

In Season 4 it's revealed that Jeremiah's original plan was to blow up certain buildings in Gotham to create a labyrinth.  

In Greek Mythology there is a very famous labyrinth constructed on the isle of Crete. The grand architect behind its design is a brilliant inventor named Daedalus. Now depending on your depth of study in mythology you may have seen Daedalus portrayed strictly as a victim, a genius forced by an evil king to construct a labyrinth that he later barely escapes. Well, as it tends to go with most myths, if you scratch passed the surface you find Daedalus was also a villain.  

You see Daedalus happened to have a nephew who showed signs of being even more brilliant than Daedalus so first chance he got Daedalus pushed his nephew off a cliff. (Don't worry Athena changed him into a partridge as you do when you're a goddess, however being a partridge did put a dampen on the kids ability to outshine Daedalus’ smarts) Ultimately it was this act of violence that led Daedalus and his ill fated son Icarus to being banished and winding up on Crete in the first place. (More on that later)

Again I know this has been stated before. I feel Jeremiah has very strong ties to Daedalus. We have a brilliant inventor and architect, who has (in season 4) placed himself in a sort of self inflicted exile. Meanwhile his twin brother Jerome raises questions of fowl play against him, to the direct benefit of Jeremiah. Also as part of Jerome's quest to find his brother we see Jerome was in fact abused by his uncle. (A bit more tenuous connection, but I still find it interesting)

Another possible connection for Jerome is then his alignment to Icarus. In the myths Icarus is Daedalus’ son who unfortunately did not inherit Daedalus’ brilliance. Notoriously Daedalus warned Icarus not to fly too low or the sea spray would cling to his feathers and weigh him down, but also not to fly too high of the hot sun would melt the wax and his wings would fall apart. In the case of Jerome's death we had Jerome take a terrible fall after burning so brightly for so briefly.  

Back to the myth of Daedalus’ labyrinth now. I'm sure some of you will recall the labyrinth is the home of the Minotaur a monstrous half-man-half-bull that that fed upon human flesh. Now King Minos may not have been the best king, but he wasn't completely career suicidal like certain King of Gotham.. so to feed the Minotaur he had Athenian youths imported to be used as sacrifice. The problem with King Minos' plan here was Athens was known for having a lot of ridiculously smart people, (Daedalus was also originally from Athens) this included the man that the Greeks pretty unanimously have declared their smartest hero Theseus. (Heads up he's also not great guy once you scratch the surface) Suffice to say Theseus eventually kills the Minotaur. (I won't go into the stupid stuff does before and after. Suffice to say he's actually one of my least favorite heroes)

The reason I bring up Theseus in the labyrinth is because he is often recognized as the closest mythological comparison to Batman. His methods involve a lot of trickery and traps. So, I feel rolling into season 5 Jeremiah has intentionally placed Bruce in the roll of Theseus. Jeremiah has turned Gotham into his Labyrinth and he wants Bruce to become Gotham's dark knight. Bruce will have to find his way through the labyrinth alone and confront the Minotaur within.  

I'll be honest I feel in this case, Jeremiah also represents the Minotaur. My reasoning for this besides his monstrous and destructive nature is from his new cult like followers in season 5. I believe they are very representative of the myth of the Athenian youth forced into the labyrinth and being sacrificed to “feed the beast". Particularly the scene that reminded me the most of this was when Bruce was shown walking through the room full of dead initiates, much as Theseus has to tread over the bones of his fellow Athenians in his pursuit of the Minotaur.

Lastly I'd like to touch on Ecco. I'd love to see more backstory for Ecco, but with only nine episodes left in the series I fear we might not get the chance, so hopefully this can provide us with some incite. There isn't really a character that fits her in the myths surrounding the labyrinth that I can think of, however I think they still wanted to connect her back to the Greek myths and further develop her and Jeremiah's characters through Greek symbolism.  

I had my suspicions about Ecco since the beginning, but now that we've seen a little more of her I’m all the more certain her name comes from the myth of Echo and Narcissus. Let's start with the obvious and work our way down to the more hypothetical.  

Jeremiah is Narcissus. In Greek mythology Narcissus is a man who's so wrapped up in himself he falls in love with his own reflection and eventually wastes away to nothing starring at himself in a pool of water. (Don't worry he turned into a flower as you do in the Greek myths. DO NOT ATTEMPT AT HOME) On a side Narcissism is a trait often recognized in serial killers and is displayed by characters like Penguin and Riddler on Gotham, or y'know the guy who took time to have stained glass windows barring his deified image all over his cult worshiper hotel, Jeremiah I'm looking at you kid! (There's not a lot of options to not look at you in those scenes)

So, he's Narcissus. Now let's talk about Ecco being like Echo. First the myth. Echo starts out working for Zeus, (king of the gods, who sleeps around a lot) who orders her to distract his wife Hera (goddess of marriage, best known for being understandably pissed off at her husband Zeus). Unfortunately for everyone involved ever, Hera can't punish Zeus, so she capitalizes on punishing everyone else. Including Echo. Since, Echo's job was basically to chat up Hera every time Zeus decided to say go fornicate with someone while disguised  as a bull, (Minotaur was not his son) when Hera eventually caught on to what Echo was doing she took away Echo's voice cursing her to only be able to repeat the words of others.  

Flash forward after getting kicked off of Mount Olympus she finds Narcissus and falls in love with him on sight. Then through a bit of miscommunication (it's a sad myth go read it) she at first thinks he has fallen in love with her as well only to eventually get rebuffed by Narcissus who of course only loves himself. She is left to sorrow and shame being forced to watch Narcissus waste away until she too wastes away leaving nothing, but her voice.

As far as Gotham's Ecco goes all we've really been given from season 4 is that she works for Jeremiah and has dedicated her life to him for some disclosed reason. This reminds me a lot of the beginning of the myth where Echo worked for Zeus, however maybe there's a bit more story hidden in here. Perhaps The reason she devoted herself to Jeremiah had to do with her fleeing a situation where her life was already not her own and perhaps she was literally or figuratively silenced before Jeremiah hired her. As far as the second part of the myth is concerned, I feel that plays heavily into season 5. We see Ecco still very much devoted to Jeremiah (In a pool no less) repeating his words and actions. Perhaps in this case the curse of being left with only the ability to repeat Jeremiah's words comes from the damage caused by the bullet he placed in the back of her head, leaving her just an Echo of her former self.  

[setmeatopthepyre]

[Above images are from the cleaned-up Blackwing board that @mysticorset made]

So continuing from this post where I screencapped the other Blackwing symbols that pop up in the opening credits of season 2, I wanted to take a closer look.

We know only one with reasonable certainty, and that’s Lamia. Project Lamia is most likely Mona Wilder, which we know from photos that have been posted of the actress in Blackwing jumpsuit, and it seems like Mona Wilder’s power is shape shifting. However, Max mentioned at some point that none of the subjects’ powers are as clear-cut as Blackwing thinks they are or wants them to be. Dirk is not psychic, he can’t just predict the future. Blackwing named Ken Project Alpha likely because they thought he had power over the subjects, simply because Bart doesn’t kill him. That’s the reason. So Blackwing’s names for the projects won’t necessarily tell us a whole bunch but they might shed us some light on what Blackwing knows about them.

So keep reading for interesting information about the project names and some theories.

PROJECT LAMIA

As before, Project Lamia is Mona and her power has something to do with shapeshifting. At least, Friedkin mentions a shapeshifter and we see Mona change shapes. We see her throughout season one - likely - as the squeeze toy, and as a clown in Amanda’s vision. When she teleports Dirk, we see her in human shape with bright green eyes, just like the clown toy (sometimes - when the eyes aren’t blue).

But why “Lamia”?

Lamia was a figure in Greek mythology. Hera killed or stole all Lamia’s children and cursed her to become a child-eating monster herself. Alternatively, Lamia goes mad with grief and devours other children out of envy, becoming a monster in the process. Lamia is cursed with an inability to close her eyes so that she always has to obsess over the image of her dead children, so Zeus gives her the ability to remove her eyes, which in turn gives her the gift of prophecy. The myth of the Lamia monster has been used for centuries to scare children.

But why did Blackwing give Mona the name Project Lamia? I think it’s because of her curse to bear witness. I think part of Mona’s power is the ability to take a form and witness, but not being able to actually do anything other than witness when she takes on a different form. The squeaky toy literally cannot close its eyes, and the other forms she takes are all rather inconsequential. The only time we actually see her do something important is when she throws the water on Dirk, and that’s when she looks human. This is also reflected in the symbol for Lamia: a circle representing an eye looking out over the world.

PROJECT CARMAN

Carman is a figure from Celtic mythology, an evil Greek warrior-witch who invaded Ireland with her three sons, bringers of death and destruction. Their names are Dub (darkness), Dothur (evil) and Dian (violence). She used her powers to destroy all the crops in Ireland while her sons destroyed everything else in their path. They were then challenged by four others: the god of poetry (Ai Mac Ollamain), a white sorceress (Bé Chuille), a satirist (Cridhinbheal) and a magician (Lugh Laebach), who used their magical powers against Carman’s three sons and banished them from Ireland for as long as the land was surrounded by water. Bé Chuille then used a spell to subdue her magic and Carman was imprisoned, after which she died of longing and was buried among oak trees. At the sight of her burial place a fair was held every three years during the harvest festival. If the festival failed to be held, it meant famine for all of Ireland.

We don’t know who Project Carman is, but there is a theory here that she is linked to the Cardenas’ because of the name and the being buried among oak trees. The question that is important to me, however, is why would Blackwing give a subject this name? Major themes with Carman seem to be her being the cause of famine, and the trail of destruction left by her sons.

As far as the symbol for Carman goes, I don’t have any firm theories. As far as I can tell, the square as a symbol stands for the material world. The two overlapping squares could mean two overlapping material worlds - which, if we go with the Cardenas theory, could hint to a house within a house - or we could see them as forming a third square which could reference the three brothers in the myth. It could also be a reference to theories of dualism.

PROJECT MIRU

Miru is a figure from Polynesian mythology and I could find very little information about her. She is a death goddess or a demonic goddess who lives in the nether world, Avaiki. Avaiki is the ‘root of the world’ from which the rest of the earth was created. Miru intoxicates either the souls of dead people or just men with kava, then cooks them in her ever-burning oven and devours them.

So we have Miru’s ever-burning oven and intoxicating people with kava, a drink made from the kava plant. Kava has sedative, anesthetic and euphoriant qualities which makes me think that maybe this is part of her power - being able to influence how others feel or making other people experience things.

As far as the symbol for Miru goes, it seems to be a combination of the alchemical symbols for sun and earth:

It could also simply be a figure, indicated by the dot, in the middle of the earth, like Miru in the nether world.

PROJECT VESTA

Vesta is a Roman mythological figure. She is the goddess of hearth, home who rejected the advances of both Apollo and Neptune and begged Jupiter to allow her to remain forever a virgin. When he agreed, Vesta took care of his home and hearth out of thanks. She is rarely depicted as a human, but is often personified by her ever-burning flame or as the fire stick that lights the hearthfire. In Rome there was a perpetual fire tended to by Vestal Virgins, and its extinction at any time other than the Roman new year meant disaster for Rome.

Her symbol very much matches the myth. A Greek historian said: “And they regard the fire as consecrated to Vesta, because that goddess, being the Earth and occupying the central position in the universe, kindles the celestial fires from herself.”

So themes for Vesta are fire, home, and the connection between heaven/sky and earth.

Worth noting: there is also the Vesta family of asteroids, including 4 Vesta, which is the brightest asteroid visible from Earth.

PROJECT WRAITH So wraith is originally a Scots word for a ghost, spectre or apparition, though it can also be an omen of sorts, or a wisp or faint trace of something. I have a lot of trouble coming up with what this could be in terms of Blackwing because it could be so many things and I can’t come up with a good explanation for the symbol either. The only thing is that it’s one of few symbols with a hexagon, the others being Orthrus, Golem and Phoenix [which Amanda sees a vision of maybe?], and the hexagon is a symbol that shows up very prominently in both The Mage and Triangle Badevil’s tattoos.

PROJECT GETUS

Getus is another very tough one, mostly because I could find nothing for ‘Getus’. There is Cetus, an ancient Greek sea monster or large fish or whale. The sea monsters slain by Perseus and Heracles are referred to as cetus. Cetus are viewed as bad omens to sailors, bringers of misfortune or great storms.

The symbol for Getus is very similar to the all seeing eye or eye of providence.

I have no theories for Project Getus, though the interrupted triangle reminds me of the spirit of something bigger being part of the middle. Like shark kitten. Yeah, Project Getus is shark kitten.

That’s all six. If anyone made it all the way through, I applaud you. Send me a message and let’s throw theories at each other. Tell me your thoughts!

[catcomixzstudios]

How To Life Chapter 41 - Greek Mythology

THE Mythology

When it comes to mythology, there are few as well known as the one followed by the ancient Greeks. Thankfully the Greeks had the decency to have a very fun set of myths.

There’s really only one thing I want to lead with before jumping straight into the fun; I won’t be doing a section on Roman mythology since it’s basically Greek mythology with better names and maybe slightly more bloodshed. We’ll just stick to the classic version.

Instead of a space egg or endless waters, the universe began with Chaos feeling, sleeping, and yawning a couple of gods into existence. One of them, Gaia (the goddess of the Earth), decided to just have a baby. This baby is Uranus, god of the skies. Evidently immaculate conception was too boring for her, so she decided to have twelve incest babies with her newborn son instead. One thing you learn early on in Greek mythology is that nobody can just have a normal-ass baby, so all of these twelve kids turned out to be titans (basically, giant motherfuckers). Mother and son decide that twelve is enough of these bastards and stop having titan babies (because you can just choose to not do that).

Instead of titans, they brought forth some other ugly-ass monsters instead. Uranus correctly judged them as ugly and threw them into under-hell (called Tartarus). This pissed his mother off, and she gets her youngest grandchild titan, Cronus, to cut his father’s balls off. In doing so, he became the King of the Titans, and started banging his sister to celebrate. Gaia just kind of fucked off.

Cronus became a paranoid bastard. Whenever his sister-wife Rhea gave birth, he’d just eat the baby so they wouldn’t rise up against him. He is not a good fatherly role model. After a while, a woman will probably get sick and tired of her husband eating their children, so she tricked Cronus by wrapping a rock in a blanket for him to eat while hiding her actual child away. For some reason the pair gave birth to normal-sized people, by the way. The one she hid away, Zeus, grew up and tricked his dad into drinking something that made him puke up his other (still alive) siblings. He called his dad out on being a shitty parent and declared war on him. Zeus then broke a couple of the ugly-ass monsters his grandparents birthed out from Tartarus and promptly whooped his dad’s ass. Zeus and his siblings threw their parents and the rest of the titans down into Tartarus. Even his mom, who kept his ungrateful ass alive in the first place. He did keep one of the titans for a wife, though. Zeus is only slightly less of a dick than his father so far.

Since apparently nobody can just fucking get along with their parents in Greek mythology, Zeus heard that his titan cousin-wife, Metis, will give birth to a kid that’ll pull a him on him. In an attempt to avoid his father’s mistake, he STRAIGHT UP JUST FUCKING ATE HIS WIFE. What the fuck, Zeus. Apparently she was already pregnant, though, and her baby just… popped out of his head. The baby is a fully grown and decked-out-for-war woman; Athena. Someone must have really been off their meds when they were coming up with this part.

Zeus apparently calmed the fuck down after that incident, and starts banging his sister-wife Hera. They end up having a ton of kids who would each be important gods in Greek mythology. Everyone kind of settled down on Mount Olympus.

And then humanity came along. See, one of the titans, Prometheus, sided with Zeus when he was working on ousting his dickbag dad. Fast forward and Prometheus created humanity. Out of all of the figures that get much focus in this chapter, Prometheus was actually a pretty cool dude. He didn’t just create humans; he actually made an effort to take care of us. He ends up tricking Zeus into accepting the useless shit in animals as a sacrifice and leave the actual food for humanity. This pissed Zeus off and he responded by stealing fire from humans. Prometheus, being the cool dude he was, stole it right back. Zeus then went about revenge in another way; he created a woman named Pandora with the intention of fucking humanity’s shit up. She does.

Pandora opened up a jar that releases all of the evils of humanity. By the time her dumbass got it closed again, the only thing left inside is hope. Couldn’t tell you why hope is bumming around in a jar full of evil things, but there you go. Women, right? Things they couldn’t possibly have dealt with are always their fault.

Our main man, Prometheus, ends up getting the shit end of this all though, as Zeus sentenced him to get his liver pecked out by an eagle every day. Kind of harsh. Luckily, one of the greatest heroes of all time comes and breaks him out later on.

Zeus’ anger towards humanity eventually softened once he got a taste for our women. Boy did he get a taste. Usually not with consent. Don’t be like Zeus. His sexploits did often end up with the birth of major heroes, however. Heroes that would end up on his wife’s shit list their entire life since they’re cheater babies. At least they got to go around killing, exploring, and/or fucking all they saw.

Greek mythology has far too many myths to extensively cover (most notably the Iliad & The Odyssey, the story of Jason & the Argonauts, and the life of Heracles), so we’ll stop here on that front. That just leaves the question of what the afterlife is like.

It’s generally pretty shit, actually. If you’re not a god, you get to go down to Hades (not to be confused with the caretaker of the underworld and Zeus’ brother, Hades). It’s divided into several sections. Far beneath the underworld is the previously mentioned Tartarus, where lots of angry titans and monsters are locked up. If you’re a dick and/or didn’t worship the asshole gods of this mythology enough, you’d go to the Fields of Punishment. That place sucks. Most people get sent to the Fields of Asphodel, the place you go if you’re kind of meh. It’s pretty boring. If you kicked ass and took names, you’d get to go to Elysium, where you don’t have to lift a finger ever again. I imagine that gets pretty boring after a while. You probably wouldn’t get to go there anyway, though.

GOOD IDEAS:

- Most of the stories are really badass (or at least hilarious to read about)

- Some of the characters aren’t massive rapists and/or killers

BAD IDEAS:

- Most of the characters are massive rapists and/or killers

- One of the overall shittiest afterlives in any mythology for normal people

- Zeus

LIKELIHOOD OF TRUTH: ~34%. There’s a reason this is one of the most well-known mythologies; it’s very interesting. It’s an action-packed and often totally nonsensical series of events that dominated the world for quite some time. Hell, the Romans practically stole all of it to form the basis of their mythology. However, the dickishness and incest aren’t quite as palatable to a modern audience, and probably works best as a “what not to do if you’re a god” guide.

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