#-except that taylor and joe broke up

[mara-and-its-the-same]

DELLLLLLAAAAA.

I’m sad. ☹️☹️

naaauuurrr why sad (even though it's 14 hrs later because i was sleeping after 21 hrs of traveling)

so if you're still sad or have a vague inclination to talk about it, i'm still alive and you can always tell me anything <3

[moonysmates]

How different Marauders era characters would feel about Taylor Swift.

Sirius- Obsessed with Taylor and her music. If she has one fan, it's him. If she has no fans, he's dead (like all the people he loves). Acknowledges that she does some questionable things but always makes excuses for her. Was really upset when Taylor and Joe broke up. Gets annoyed when people don't listen to Taylor's Version. Collected every CD, vinyl, and piece of merch that he could.

James- Outwardly pretends he just likes the music, but actually really relates to a lot of the sadder songs (eg Tolerate It). Sings the sweet, romantic songs to Lily/Reg all the time.

Remus- Was always annoyed at how overplayed Taylor's songs were, so hated/disliked her songs. Reluctantly agreed to go to the Eras Tour with Sirius and listened to the setlist in preparation and actually really loved a lot of the songs, but kept pretending to hate her because he didn't want to admit he was wrong.

Peter- Wasn't a Swiftie but liked a few of her songs. Didn't really understand why she was rerecording her albums except that it was important to her and the Swifties.

Lily- Major Swiftie, related to loads of songs and loved almost all of the rest. Went through everyone's playlists and replaced everything with Taylor's Version.

Mary- Was a Swiftie but not massive levels of obsession like Lily or Sirius. Really related to some of the songs, liked how a bunch of others sounded.

Marlene- Gatekept her favourites, judged Swifties based on which albums/songs they liked.

Dorcas- Loved Taylor's music, memorised as many of her songs as possible. Critical of Taylor's actions but still loved her and her music. Didn't want to give any money to Scooter Braun etc by streaming non-Taylor's Version songs, so listened to Reg's CDs if she wanted to listen to something that wasn't Taylor's Version.

Regulus- Obsessed with every song. Refused to even have non-Taylor's Version playing near him, even in public. Was the type of person to say "You can't be a Lover stan if you don't like Afterglow" etc, especially to Sirius. Collected the cardigans and CDs.

Pandora- Huge folklore girlie. Not a huge pop girl, but loves the country/alternative albums.

Evan- Didn't count himself as a Swiftie, but all of his friends are obsessed with her so he's grown to like her music. Doesn't tell anyone what he thinks about different songs for fear of being murdered by the people he loves (like James and Lily on Halloween 1981).

Barty- Doesn't tell anyone outside of his friends that he likes Taylor, but secretly loves all of her music, especially her pop albums.

[sophietv]

Hi, I'm relatively new to the whole Gaylor/Kaylor/LSK universe so I'm sorry if this is a silly ask! But I'm curious to hear your thoughts on theory of Kaylor "breaking up" in 2019/20 which potentially caused folklore/evermore (both albums contain some very heartbreaking songs and feel influenced by the reality of Taylor's life at the time) and then the rumour of William Bowery being Karlie? I don't buy the whole Joe being WB so then it leaves me wondering if Karlie is indeed WB where does the break up fit in, if at all?

Also just wanted to say thank you so much for all the analysis posts and threads you do both on here and Twitter! Appreciate it very much!

Hi!

This is not a silly question at all!

In fact it is exactly THE Kaylor question of all.

And to answer this questions is really complex, because there's just soooo much.

I'm so sorry, because this is gonna be a VERY long answer...

About the "Breakup"

I personnally go back and forth as to know if they really broke up or not in 2019.

Either way, it was not for long. I think max a couple of weeks/months.

It's really difficult too, to point out exactly where this would have happened.

But if I have to guess, I would say that they might have broken up/taken a break, toward the month of August 2019 and most probably got back together toward Octobre/Novembre 2019.

What makes me think that?

Taylor when she explains the song Betty during the concert. When she points out where the event happened, she always say during the month of August.

The song August, from the teenage love triangle. The fact that she chose to name the song this. Betty is Karlie and James is Taylor. August is what happened that is "the worst thing that I ever did, is what I did to you".

In Septembre 2019, Taylor did the BBC1 performance and the Lover In Paris Concert. Both were really a shift in the Lover Era aesthetic and presentation. She wore all black, sung mostly accoustic versions, surprise songs and covers were break up songs and she looked devastated while doing this.

What makes me think they got back together then:

Back in Novembre, Taylor sarted flagging Karlie heavily again, and Karlie did the same. And honnestly, once you notice everything they did since then, it's really the only proof you need. (I will do, or try to do an extensive post on all the flagging that went on after the Lover Era, because there's just so much. (Hopefully I'll have time to do it tonight).

In the teenage love triangle, the most important part is that in the end, in Cardigan, James goes back to Betty and they end up together.

Betty is not the only song that Taylor did about that precise moment. Talking about "betraying" Karlie in some way. Long Story Short also talks about this. And ends up with Taylor going back to the person that she "betrayed".

In a Fearless (Taylor's Version) interview, Taylor talks about how her Vault Track songs haven't changed much since the moment she wrote them. Except for That's When, where she said that she changed it to be a duo. Because before she never experienced having doubt about a relationship and saying to the other person that she needed space and time and that the other person granted her this. She said that the other person saying that it's ok and being willing to give her time and space to figure herself out is what made her realise that she really wanted to be with that person. I think that this interview is SO important to all the LSK interpretation afterward. Here's the link to that interview:

5. Then you also have The Great War that is like the ultimate confirmation that whatever happened back in 2019 is behind them and that they are together now.

Here's a post I did about this: (X)

But yeah, I think the most important part of all this, is the flagging that they did and keep doing. It's just insane how much they both flags each other and at this point there's just too much Koincidences to pretend tha it's accidental.

About Folklore and Evermore:

You are totally right when you say that both those albums are incredibly sad with a lot of hearbreaking songs.

And it's true that at first, it's really hard to listen to them and not think that they broke up for sure.

But when you sit with them for a bit and listen to what Taylor had to say about the songs in those albums. Especially during the Long Pond Studio Session, you realise that yes those albums are incredibly sad and talk about betrayal, grief, depression etc. But the story that Folklore and Evermore tell is not a story about a breakup. And to understand that, it's important to take into consideration that during that time, Taylor was going though soooo much. More than anyone should go through in their entire life. And it was more than enough, without a breakup on top, for her to be heartbroken like she seemed to be during those eras:

Wanting to come out and not being able to.

Being accused of queerbaiting by the medias because you wanted to come out and was not able to. (It really looked at some point like going back to 2016...)

Being betrayed by someone that you thought was a parental figure.

Losing 13 years of hard work, and not being able anymore to do what you want with things that YOU made.

Having your tour cancelled.

Covid and not knowing if you'll ever be able to do what you love again.

Her mother's heath.

So yeah... this was sooo much and she showed so much resillience and strenght. But I think it was more than enough to warrant looking heartbroken like she did and writting heartbreak albums. Without on top of it all, breaking up with the love of her life (wich might have happened too during a small period of time...).

I will try really hard to not do a whole album analysis here, but just point out some things, because if I do, my post is never gonna end... (edit: I failed...kind of)

Folklore:

Betty, August and Cardigan:

Like I said before, this trio tells a story of making a mistake and breaking someone's heart while doing so. But ultimately coming back to the person.

Exile:

Taylor said that this was meant to represent a fight between two lovers that were not able to just listen to the other person. They are both trying to explain themselves but both are talking over each other and in the end are not able to find common ground.

(something like that, it's been a while since I've watched the LPSS)

And this narrative fits really well with The Great War, Long Story Short and even Betty, misscommunication that led her to believe that she was somewhat betrayed and to react accordingly.

But all those songs have also in common that the two persons end up together in the end.

Illicit Affairs:

The general concensus on this song is that it is about cheating.

But the meaning of the word Illicit Affair is actually: Not allowed by law OR CUSTOMS in a country.

So I think this song is her expressing how keeping her relationship a secret is hard and taxing on her.

But she still ends up the song saying that she would still do it a million times over for this person.

Hoax:

I think this one is the most important to listen closely to Taylor's and Aaron's explanations:

Aaron:

"There’s sadness, but it’s a kind of hopeful sadness. It’s a recognition that you take on the burden of your partners, your loved ones, and their ups and downs. That’s both “peace” and “hoax” to me That’s part of how I feel about those songs because I think that’s life. There’s a reality, the gravity or an understanding of the human condition.

Taylor:

"Love that isn't just easy"

"What if I'm writing about very fractured situations? Love, a business thing that really hurt and a relationship I considered like family" " I think the part that sounds like love to me is : "Don't want no other shade of blue but you, no other sadness in the world would do" To me that sounds like what love really IS. WHO would you be sad WITH? And WHO would you deal WITH when they were sad? Grey skies everyday for months. Would you still stay?

So Taylor is saying that Hoax is not about a breakup but about facing hard times in a relationship and being there for the other, when the person is not in a good place mentally. This ties back to This Is Me Trying too.

Peace:

Taylor explained it well in the LPSS but also in her Rolling Stone interview with Paul McCartney.

How it's about being in relationship and being scared that what you have to offer is not enough because you can't give your partner a normal life like you would like.

But she also say that she's able to achieve feeling like her life is a real life by keeping her relationship private.

She also said in that interview that while writting Folklore: "I was making Folklore, I went lyrically in a total direction of escapism and romanticism. And I wrote songs imagining I was, like, a pioneer woman in a forbidden love affair [laughs]. I was completely …"

Wich is the exact definition of their relationship since 2016.

See my Love Blackout post: (X)

I highly recommend to go read that interview, especially that part about Peace, because it's really telling. As well as the conversation they have about having children... (X)

Invisible String:

This is purely a love song.

And talks about how Taylor and Karlie had so many things tying them together even when they didn't even knew each other.

It ties back to "Your past and mine are parallel lines" from All Of The Girls.

And there's A LOT of parallel lines.

Here's a post if you are interested: (X)

The Lakes:

This one is probably the most telling song of the Album.

It talks about running away with your lover.

And in the song she says: "a red rose grew up, out of ice frozen ground with no one around to tweet it".

Red Rose signify love.

So she is singing about her struggle with how her celebrity makes everything complicated and all that she wants to do is run away... but not without her muse.

And it's really loudly about Karlie. Here's a post (X)

My Tears Ricochet:

This one to me screams about a betrayal by a parental figure.

And I feel like it's really loudly about Scott.

"'Cause when I'd fight you used to tell me I was brave"

"And when you can't sleep at night, you hear my stolen lullabies"

"Wishing I'd stay"

"And your tossing out blame, drunk on this pain, crossing out the good years"

So yeah, it really feels like her talking to Scott about him selling her masters to Scooter.

Although her explanation of the song is that it's like going through a divorce and knowing exactly what to say to the other person to hurt them badly.

But it still really feels to me, like she is talking about Scot.

About being betrayed by your boss that you thought was family.

Ok that was a looong analysis. Again sorry, my post is gonna be a whole novel...

Evermore:

Champagne Problems and Coney Island:

She is still talking about feeling like she let down Karlie by being unable to put her first. Wich can lead back to whatever happened toward August in 2019.

Long Story Short:

It's the equivalent of The Great War of Midnights or the teenage love triangle of Folklore.

Going through a though time and thinking that you have somewhat been betrayed.

Being blinded by your emotions.

And realising that you got it wrong all along.

And ending up with your lover in the end.

Willow, Ivy and Dorothea are all love songs.

Evermore:

Is reminescing on what happened in 2019 and how over time she healed from it.

And the important part is that by the end you learn that her lover was by her and helped her through it.

Closure, Hapiness and Gold Rush:

Those ones are breakup songs, and could refer to the breakup in 2019. (although the 7 years in heaven in Hapiness doesn't quite fit).

But the interesting part about Evermore is that I think it was meant to give you the impression that they were not together anymore.

It was released when Karlie was pregnant with Levi.

Furthermore, It's Time To Go and Right Where You Left Me where released in January 2021 not long before Karlie gave birth.

And those song sserved as a big distraction because it got most Swifties to really think that Karlie betrayed Taylor and that they were not friends anymore.

And most gaylors to think that Karlie really broke Taylor's heart. Wich is kind of interesting when you look at all the other breakup songs beside Right Where You Left Me, Taylor seems to always feel responsible for the breakup and hurting Karlie. Except this one. But it's also the most clear breakup song of all of them.

So yeah, I do suspect that the album and mostly the deluxe version was meant to serve as a distraction to protect them and their child, and give Taylor the opportunity to really try to give Karlie a "normal" relationship out of the public eyes like she described in Peace.

Karlie as William Bowery:

Yes I do think that Karlie is William Bowery and I did a thread on Twitter about this (X)

So yeah.... here's my very very long post about why I think Karlie and Taylor are still together and what I think of Folkmore.

Sorry for the novel 😅

Thanks for sending me your questions! I hope I was able to help you understand a little bit better.

If you haven't had enough yet of me talking about my interpretations... Here's some more posts I did about them flagging after 2019 (X) (X) (X) (X)(X)

And those two are more about the babies: (X) (X)

[joesalw]

imma rant about something i am sorry. i am a huge conan gray fan. i've been since 2020 when i first heard him on a mutual's spotify playlist. i'm indian and i wasn't on internet before pandemic nor did i used to listen to non hindi songs. i did not know who taylor swift was at the time. i had just heard her name in passing and probably two of her biggest songs (love story, you belong with me)

in 2021 my love for conan grew so much. his music has helped me with so much shit in my life. i also started watching interviews and stuff and he mentioned that taylor was a huge inspiration for him many times. he became besties with liv in 2021 and taylor sent both of them her fearless tv recording (due to which i was introduced to taylor's music)

at this point swifties started using the term 'taylor's children' for conan and olivia and then the whole cruel summer credits thing happened with liv and so many swifties started accusing her of copying taylor with everything she does. she rightfully distanced herself from taylor and as her best friend, conan did too

when midnights came out, an interviewer asked him what his favourite track was. he said something along the lines of 'oh i am on tour right now and i think an album like that deserves to be properly heard. i just haven't had the time to listen to it yet' (nothing to be upset at. he was respectful towards taylor and her music) but oh the swifties went wild. they started unnecessarily trolling him, being racist and homophobic towards him and all that

even now in 2024, whenever he does ANYTHING, swifties make it about him not having heard midnights. it's so annoying atp.

but what will you except from a fandom who were all like father towards joe alwyn when he was still dating their idol. but when they broke up, he is public enemy number 1 "who put her in the basement and didn't let her bejeweled" and their new father is someone when alcohol and anger issues (they are accusing joe of that shit now btw. saying how he was an alcoholic and also accusing him of dv which is so messed up. like always believe victims. but why are they making up rumours of abuse with no proof and no word said by taylor who according to them was abused??)

They expect everybody to kiss the ground she walks on, and if someone fails to do it/ doesn’t do it by choice, they become public enemy #1

[joealwyndefenseattorney]

“That was the point of all of it, she wanted him to risk something and be seen by him along with the world.”

Indeed. The one person she wanted to see her as Taylor Swift TM- just didn’t. Everybody else is falling at her feet, except the man she wanted desperately to do the same.

I don’t know who broke up with you and I don’t know if it truly matters as I’m sure either could have called it, but there is a part of me that thinks that she wanted him to see her so badly that she did break up with him. In more than likely dramatic fashion. To scare him, to come back, to see what she was accomplishing with Eras being THE popculture moment starting those first few weekends. To make him regret losing interest in her and the relationship. And this time he didn’t come running back like he more than likely did in the past. I think that’s why she was spinning for so long and still seems to not be coping well. But whether he ended it (most likely) or she ended it, I’ll always be of the opinion that she didn’t want to lose him. That was never the plan.

I think it was in a dramatic fashion which is why she didn’t change the set list at first- she kept invisible string hoping he’d come back. After the break up was announced when he didn’t come running- she changed it. I think he knew that it wouldn’t work and that she wanted him to come running back. But Joe picked himself this time and has made peace with his decision. He is living in peace.

[wavesoutbeingtossed]

The MBOBHT voice memo oddly makes me think of how none of her muses have come out and said she’s said something wrong about their relationship. It’s like she does try to protect the muse because she understands they’re human and not terrible people who broke her heart (Dear John and TSMWEL are exempt from part of this, but she made her case and they said nothing publicly).

It is interesting. Iirc back in the day a certain someone was even complementary about Red.

To be fair I think a lot of it may be that they know Taylor is a juggernaut and regardless of the circumstances going up against her is a losing battle. Which is not to say that she would deliberately slight them, it’s just that she’s so huge and has such a glaring spotlight on her and her fans are such a mob that most people, and I think especially people in the entertainment industry, know that trying to refute her would backfire. (Again which is not to say that Taylor’s account isn’t also truthful, I’m just saying regardless of the he said/she said, Taylor’s voice is always going to be strongest in the court of public opinion, especially now.)

I think John was the only one to really clap back at the time. Joe’s interview this summer is probably the next closest and even at that the most he said essentially was the only people who know what really happens in a relationship are the two people involved.

That being said, I have mentioned this to other people but it IS notable to me how much humanity she extends on her exes in the midst of her own pain, for the most part, barring certain exceptions as you mentioned and for good reason. I actually have thoughts about this re: Joever but I don’t really feel like I can articulate them in a digestible way on main. But it absolutely is a hallmark of her music. It’s like her delving into their psyches and struggles are an extension of delving into her own.

[foxes-that-run]

What are your thoughts about the song “the Alcott”

I haven't given it a lot of thought, except it was started before Taylor got involved. Taylor did change the angle of the song when she added her lyrics though, from what Aaron said to the Vulture:

But there was something about that song I thought she’d really respond to. She quickly rewrote it as this conversation or dialogue between two lovers. That helped shape where we went with the production of it.

There’s a clarity in her ideation and her lyricism and her sense of melody. It cuts like a knife. Compositionally, it’s very intentional. Her countermelodies in the chorus and the bridge — it’s like two lovers almost talking over each other. It’s something that’s much bolder than someone singing along or just harmonizing. That is her gift: She has a storyteller’s mind and a musical sense of boldness. Something about her phrasing … you can hear it even in the original voice note. She’s not coloring it in; she’s fully another character in the story. It makes sense. In the verse, Matt is talking about finding someone and they’re writing in their golden notebook. In a way, I was like, Is that Taylor? Who is it? Or is it some fictional character? She inhabits this story as her own character. That makes it a true feature.

It was first mentioned 19 January 2023 on the nationals instagram, with a full track list and artwork - so would likely be from late 2022. Taylor performed Exile with the National in London 26 October 2022, maybe around then.

Actually that’s really interesting timing, midnights was released then, the midnights pap walk when we last saw Joe, Harry was doing the forum residency wearing the Peace Ring and broke up with OW a few weeks later. (2022 timeline)

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I mean it's not not-Haylor:

[youcalledmebabe]

if you had to describe each ship's dynamic of the babe's anatomy universe with a song, which ones would they be? and/or, which song would character a dedicate to character b?

this was such a fun challenge. since I just went to the eras tour (incredible!!) I’m gonna pick Taylor swift songs. but I know Taylor isn’t everyone’s thing so I will ALSO pick another. got long because I’m bored <3

luztoye

lover: have I known you twenty seconds or twenty years?

massachusetts (jensen mcrae): I’ll never forget how I bloomed for your gaze

to me luztoye has this essential quality of falling into a very serious relationship very quickly. it’s like have I somehow known you forever even though we just met? and I think (spoiler!) when they break up it’s complicated because there’s a lot of bitterness and hurt feelings but it was a relationship that brought joe to life and changed him forever.

webgott

imgonnagetyouback: we broke all the pieces but still wanna play the game

true blue (boygenius): I can’t hide from you like I hide from myself

if there was a needle drop in the fic it would be imgonnagetyouback the minute joe sees web dressed up as Clark Kent. he wants him back! and he’ll get him. and true blue is very much them settled. they see essential parts of each other and their love is tested and comes out the other side even stronger

winnix

foolish one: I’ll get your longing glances but she’ll get your ring

hard feelings/loveless: loved you every single day, made me weak, it was real for me

well. yeah. dick does not get the ring. but he sure gets everything else! and he knows that he’s foolish and it’s not like him but he doesn’t know how to stop. and then it’s been years of his life and he HAS to stop. just because they weren’t ever together doesn’t mean it wasn’t Real. but he wants something that’s real to everyone

baberoe

labyrinth: you would break your back to make me break a smile

love you for a long time (maggie rogers): if devotion is a river, then I’m floating away

what is there to say except that Gene and Babe love each other lots? they’re always trying to make the other happier. always putting the other first. devotion is the name of the game. they had a rocky beginning but it’s smooth sailing on that river now!

reneson

sweet nothing: outside they’re push and shoving, you’re in the kitchen humming

is that alright (lady gaga): knowing if we stay together that things will be right

to me renee and chris are the fairytale relationship. no drama, no breaking up and getting back together. they’re in love and their baggage doesn’t get in the way of the relationship. the outside world can be difficult to cope with but their relationship is very much a safe haven for them both

kathnix

so it goes: you did a number on me babe, but honestly baby who’s counting? who’s counting? one, two, three…

no children (the mountain goats): I hope you blink before I do, I hope I never get sober

failmarriage slay! nix and kathy have insane physical chemistry and they mistook that for true love. many such cases. and they absolutely refuse to admit that they were wrong about getting married. so they’re clinging to the sinking ship and neither wants to be the one to give up.

dick/?

the black dog: my longings stay unspoken and I may never open up the way I did for you

dust to dust (the civil wars): you’ve done your time, listen to me, you’ve been lonely too long

dick and redacted. wow. I can’t say much because of spoilers but ouch. poor poor [redacted]. a relationship dick gets into because he’s lonely and wants something real. or at least something that appears real. and unexpectedly it IS. but real doesn’t make it forever!

[whatiwillsay]

You say both Toe and Tily were real but i don't think people can fall in love in same time two different people and to write devastating passionate love songs for two different people in same time so that mean either Toe was real and Tily was just a made up gaylor theory or Tily was real and Toe was a long term bearding arrangement

we have fundamental disagreements on the diversity in human beings capacity to love or be attracted to multiple people at the same time.

but i do have vetted info direct from a good source that claims joe and taylor were on and off for a good portion of their relationship including during rep tour (when lily was traveling with taylor). we have another confirmed timeframe from jack in late 2021 that taylor wrote you’re losing me about joe then only to get back with him later and taylor’s team confirmed when they broke up for good that they had broken up before.

just because you couldn’t fall in love with two people at the same time doesn’t mean others can’t. look into polyamory for example.

taylor has a bunch of songs about cheating from betty to illicit affairs to high infidelity. what are these songs about if she didn’t get involved with two people at the same time?

furthermore while i enjoy doing a lot of lily lyric analysis and think concluding that some songs are about her is an extremely reasonable take to have, it’s possible taylor had a fling with her and all the london lover songs are still about joe. so all the passionate love songs are just about one person.

and here’s one last theory for good measure. this is a little too fanficcy for my taste and i don’t really believe it but plenty of other people around the blog and pod are open to it so on their behalf- it’s possible joe started out as a fake relationship to cover for lily and then taylor and joe ended up falling for each other accidentally. “i hate accidents except when we went from friends to this” and “we were supposed to be just friends” are lyrics that come to mind that could be describing that.

all in all it’s really impossible to know for sure and maybe tily wasn’t a thing but joe really doesn’t get in the way of tily at all.

[merp-blerp]

I'm sorry if I'm insulting certain swifties, but I don't like the sudden theory that Midights was a breakup album the whole time. I understand the Jaylor breakup threw the fans for a loop, and we are used to clowning on average, but this theory... just doesn't make sense to me. Taylor and Joe were seen at least twice post-Midnights’s release before the breakup, so how could the album be about breaking-up with him? You think Taylor’s wrote breakup songs about him before they broke up, invisible stringing him along for a few months till she decided to call it quits? That’d be pretty mean of her. I don’t think anyone wants to believe that about her without proof. Maybe I’m misunderstanding the theory, but it just doesn’t make sense to me. And I’ve even seen people claiming that the breakup’s been hinted at since the Lover era. THE LOVER ERA! Come on, guys!

You can have any interpretation you’d like, but try not to connect it to Taylor’s personal life too hard to the point where you deluded yourself that you know her. She allows speculations like that, yes. But in moderation. Don’t be invasive. For example, I think songs like Ivy, Fearless, and I Know Places can have sapphic interpretations. Does that mean I’m labeling her as a lesbian or a sapphic person? No. I just like to interrupt songs through a sapphic lens sometimes ‘cause I’m a lesbian and want to relate on a personal level. I don’t think any of those songs are inherently sapphic just ‘cause I can interrupt them that way (except maybe Ivy, which tells a fictional story made up by Taylor). And I also don’t want to intrude on Tay’s life. If she’s queer that’s her business and she doesn’t owe the fans deep info on her sexuality. If she came out I’d be so happy for her; if she choose to “stay in the closet” or actively said that she wasn’t queer, I’d still be happy for her. In comparison, she doesn’t owe fans an explanation for what happened with Joe, so we shouldn’t make theories that intrude on both of them. Midnights could be interpreted as a breakup album, going through the stages of grief for a relationship, and it’s okay to do so. Does that mean it inherently is? It probably isn’t. It’s inherently about “sleepless nights scattered throughout [her] life” because she said so. We’ve known this since the first announcement.

I know that many of us thought Taylor and Joe were never going to breakup ‘cause they made us believe in love, and the breakup has really made us feel a lot of things; it’s made some fans feel hurt and want to blame something or someone to get rid of the pain. And God knows we don’t want to blame Taylor, so some people (baselessly) are picking on Joe. I myself only began to believe that the breakup rumors were even true once Taylor began to (seemingly) reference that she was now single (and I don’t regret doing that) and I made a whole post about how it made me feel. But no need for us swifties to lose our heads and stop heeding logic over this. No need to try to sniff out what happened, invading Joe and Taylor’s personal lives. No need to start rumors about Joe cheating on her or anything else without Taylor saying he did so. No need to start making fun of Joe’s looks or whatever (though, toxic swifties were doing that even while they were together, so maybe I can’t ask them to get rid of their cognitive dissonance and not bully people in the name of a woman who notoriously hates bullying). No need to start shipping Taylor with her friends; shipping real people can get really toxic if you aren’t careful, so I recommend abstaining from it if you can. Please just respect Joe and Taylor instead of trying to find drama where there is seemingly none. They could’ve broken up amicably, have you considered that? We don’t even know where to look for drama right now in this situation. So many good things are happening with Taylor, like her breaking records yet again like the queen she is, so let’s try to focus on that. I too want the best for Taylor and don’t want to lift up those who’ve hurt her for no good reason, but we don’t know if Joe did anything. Keep cool while we slowly learn more—and I mean slowly—and respect those who deserve to be respected.

[bisluthq]

broke up because Taylor wanted to go back to her ex lmao

//

I think Taylor and Joe would've broken up no matter what once she started the Eras tour... Saying Taylor and Joe broke up because she wanted to get back to her ex is the same thing as saying she and Calvin broke up because she wanted to date Tom H... It's not right, she needed a reason to leave, cause in her mind she needed a reason and they were there... She has spoken about it in her albums..

Hmmmmm except the Hiddles and Matty situations are wildly different. She genuinely thought she’d marry Matty. She only left Joe when that was 100% secured. She’s spoken about HOW DEEPLY and PASSIONATELY she loved Matty. He got a whole ass album dedicated to him. Hiddles got one song where she basically called him a moron lmao. So no. It’s not the same at allllllllll and to make it the same is to ignore Taylor’s own words on the subjects.

saying she wanted to be with Matty is literally saying what she herself has said. Again, given the Matty thing was a slow burn exes to friends to lovers situation I get that she was wanting Joe to “fight” for the relationship and he wasn’t doing that but also like idk she’d fallen out of love with him and was falling (deeply) for someone else. That’s what happened there (per her and like per life).

and that’s also not placing blame on anyone because you can’t control feelings. You can’t make yourself keep loving someone. You can’t stop yourself falling in love with someone else (I mean you kinda can, you can go NC with that person and stick to your partner and “work” on your primary relationship but she didn’t want to do that and seemingly neither did Joe so 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ also that’s really a pipeline for resentment later down the road and imo only worth doing if there are kids involved tbh like then yes it’s worth at least trying to figure out a way to make it work but if you don’t have kids, and on top of that if like Taylor and Joe you’re partnered but not married, why the fuck would you bother to try that hard lol? It’s obviously a hassle to break up but be free, live your truth, etc).

[kaylor]

Idk it’s kinda funny and concerning at the same time watching all of this chaos unfold especially because I’ve never realised how many people there are that are so heavily invested in Taylor’s relationships. These girlies on twitter are acting as if Joe broke up with them.

they're literally experiencing their own version of kaylor divorce right now except boring. crying over sad lyrics on the lover album, talking about cornelia street, hoax, etc like we didn't all cover this years ago when it was actually relevant and also more compelling.

[taylorftparamore]

i feel if you think ttpd is about matty or joe, you’ve only really scratched the surface of ttpd. the whole album is fractured in two, much like the public performance of Taylor Swift™️ the brand & taylor swift the human. one side artfully blends together the public muses, telling the spectacle story through metaphors and big productions jack antanoff is known for. it is giving into Taylor Swift™️ the brand. tracks like “i can do it with a broken heart” and “who’s afraid of little old me?” confront the public performance & the “blank space” & “look what you made me do” characters. the “i did something bad,” bombastic and half fanged. tracks like “my boy only breaks his favorite toys” and “but daddy i love him” are deliberately referencing “all too well” and “love story” - quintessential taylor songs. ending on “clara bow” reflects on this further - the next shiny thing except this time, taylor isn’t scared of her. it’s somber, hoping the best for her.

the other half, with aaron dessner’s more muted approach, autopsies taylor swift the human. swinging wildly from emotion to emotion, with tracks like “i hate here” showing the tendency to daydream to perhaps even maladaptive levels. “cassandra” showcases a feeling of trapped, circling, with “the prophecy” showing feelings of helplessness to the whims of others around her. “how did it end” is desolate, bitterly reflecting on how people are desperate for the gossip without care to the impact. “the bolter” and “the albatross” reflect on self destructive nature, with the final song examining the first break- up that broke her fully.

it isn’t about the muses of her life. its about her.

[missbrunettebarbie]

TTPD -the album proper- first thoughts

Here are some thoughts about TTPD -the album proper, cause I do not have the time or energy to analyze The Anthology (Taylor, wtf was this double drop???)- before I’m influenced by other people’s thoughts. Warning: I may be waaaay off the mark in some cases cause half the time when I was listening to these songs for the first time I was like “???”

Fortnight (feat. Post Malone) - Great melody, smart choice for an album opener, nice lyrics, no idea wtf the song is talking about. Like, I am guessing it’s about (a first?) break-up with Joe Alwyn in February -and they might have gotten back together for only a fortnight then broke up again for good?- but I’m so confused. Also, why is this the lead single? Taylor, this is not gonna win you SOTY at the grammys. 7/10

The Tortured Poets Department - This was … unexpected, to say the least. This was truly a picture of a moment in her relationship, while I expected either some kind of introspection or parody. Also the line about what he told Lucy and she said the same to Jack? Insane. Girl, you are both better off single. The ring and the wedding allusion? God, it hurt. (And it was only the beginning with this album…). Amazing song anyway. 9.5/10

My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys - Girl, this is mental illness for me. Love it to bits and I kinda wish it will become a single (I think it’s my … 3rd choice for a single?), but… girl, I’m happy you two broke up. 9.5/10

Down Bad - I had low expectations from this song cause the title inspired nothing in me, but it really delivered a punch. Probably one of the most honest songs on the album proper. Oh, and her vocals here? Her tone of voice? No notes, it just … hits different *_* 8/10

So Long London - Funny enough, I did hear a leak of this! But it was like … 10 seconds from the intro and I wasn’t sure it was real. It is a very good song, and I can understand why she chose it as a track 5. But for me, when compared to other track 5s -and with a title so inflammatory- it was a bit of a let down. Still love it of course. 8.5/10

But Daddy I Love Him - This one is about Matty Healy, isn’t it? Like, it has to be, cause for the life of me I can’t see who this guy could be but Matty Healy. This song … I laughed out loud. She’s unhinged. ‘I’m having his baby’. Girl, you are unhinged. The wedding fever continues, and now we get the first glimpse of the baby fever. God, I love her. You can literally hear how done she was with everyone having an opinion about whom she dates. I need to listen to this and I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can) back to back, cause this girl was so so wrong. Except that bridge. The bridge is gospel and spoke straight to my soul. 10/10

Fresh Out the Slammer - And I’m guessing this is the continuation of the track before, so still about MH. I have to say, this is really meh for me. Maybe because I was expecting something even more high tempo, but this is just … there for me. It doesn’t help that the ‘pretty baby’ annoys me. 6/10

Florida!!! - Nice to see Florence get so much singing time. Their voices mashed surprisingly well. But just like with Fortnight -and these two do seem connected- I have no idea what she is talking about here. I think it might be a composite sketch referring to both her first post break-up shows and Florida as a metaphor for escaping from your life? Idek. But the melody is great and this might be my fave collab of hers so far. 8.5/10

Guilty as Sin? - Another Matty Healy one IMO. Amazing how much material she got from such a short-lived affair. IMO she made a mistake making this track 9 and Florida!!! track 8. I would switch them around to make more sense. I’m not 100% sure this is about emotional cheating, as I think the Joever break-up wasn’t as clear cut as it was made to be, but there is something here about overlapping timelines. 9/10

Who’s Afraid Of Little Old Me? - Well, everyone should be now!!! I adore this song, it’s my fave of the album. If I have one complaint about it is that I would have put it more towards the beginning of the album instead of in the middle of the Matty Healy Saga - which makes no sense to me. Honestly, I don’t have much to say about this track cause in my eyes it’s perfect. This is the Taylor I’m here for. 10/10

I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can) - That last line! I laughed so hard. On one hand, I feel sorry for her. Otoh, girl, you should have run the first time you saw him. Great song to end the Matty Healy Saga on. 9/10

loml - Wow, this was a punch to the gut. Every lyric here is a masterpiece and a dagger to the heart. I would love it if she made this a single (this is SOTY material IMO), but it’s probably too emotional for her. The melody reminds me of Last Kiss, but the piano is giving Evermore. 10/10

I Can Do It With a Brokern Heart - Why is this not the lead single, Taylor??? It has everything: melody, lyrics, airplay value, SOTY potential, why?! I love every single second of this song, especially the chorus. I’m probably gonna listen to it on repeat. Second fave after WAOLOM. 10/10

The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived - Every song I thought was gonna be cutting turned out to be just plain sad. IMO, this song is both about JA and MH. I don;t really have much to say about this song, as it is just .. painful. 9.5/10

The Alchemy - Yeah, I’m team This Song is About Travis. Nice song, and I like that she included something about the current relationship, but it’s not exactly a fave for me. 7.5/10

Clara Bow - This was my predicted fave, but it was def dethroned. Still, I do think this is Top 5 for me. I love the direct reference to herself at the end and the way this is both hopeful and still somewhat sad. Also really like the vocals here. 10/10

Final score: 8.87 

Not bad at all. Gonna deal with The Anthology later. Much later as I actually have a life to go back to.

[joesalw]

Swifties will throw any excuse at the wall for why they broke up, anything except for facing the idea that Taylor is not ideal partner material and not this perfect woman.

I'm not saying Joe is ideal partner material either (everybody has issues) but swifties have this need to think of her as faultless and that every relationship that's ended has been solely due to the guy.

Swifties, someone can be beautiful, talented, rich, popular, publicly very sweet and kind, and STILL be a very tough person to live with privately. The Taylor Swift you see is a carefully curated brand, not the real one. None of us know the real one, only her close friends, family, and her long term exes do (because you can't wear a mask for too long).

I would argue that Travis doesn't know the real her yet either, just the fun Taylor Swift TM version. And tbh, she doesn't know the real him besides the love bombing, easygoing version.

When they've spent three months living together, seeing each other every day, when the crowds have stopped cheering for them, then let's see where they're at.

Having said that, I think they'll be engaged before actually living together in normality, just due to their schedules and she seems really determined to fast track this relationship and prove it's a "success".

(But I am looking forward to what he says afterwards, he's not Joe, he'll spill the tea or hint at it at least.)

Getting engaged to a guy with podcast will be the worst mistake of her life (if she does that) 😂

[midnightsslut]

We will never really know what exactly went down between them but this comment: “makes me wonder if he used to do it but stopped at some point.” Is something I think holds true. I mean when they first broke up the response was I believe like differences in personality and like they out grew each other. Somewhere along the line I get the feeling that joe just didn’t have that same energy about Taylor that he once did. And I don’t mean love when I say energy. I just feel like literally his energy about fighting and making up just disappeared cause it was like too chaotic. Like joe just really seemed to like the quiet and easy life. And I genuinely think Taylor enjoyed that for a while and needed it. But like we see this in her albums and genre shifts where she is constantly changing. And I bet same-old-same-old or feeling of stagnation bothers her. And it almost seems like Joe just eventually got annoyed with her lack of contentment and just blamed her for it. Possibly making Taylor question herself and her past. And personally that’s why anti hero is kind of sad song for me. Cause it sounds very much like a person who is constantly having their their worst faults thrown at them. (From the public and by people in her personal life) But ultimately there is nothing wrong with Taylor for not enjoying the life that Joe wanted.

So i am really curious to hear this album. Like really curious. Cause it’s does feel like it’s everything she has been holding back. I don’t think it will be super bashy. But definitely explore the theme of “I love you but you don’t fit with me anymore.” Gives me the vibe of “if I can’t relate to you anymore then who am I related to?”

i say this a lot about joever, but i have to say it again: yes, but it’s also complicated djsjs.

ACHTUNG: THESE ARE MY THOUGHTS. EVERY SINGLE SENTENCE HAS AN IMPLICIT ‘IMO.’ I WILL NOT WRITE ONE OUT EACH TIME BECAUSE I DON’T LIKE TO BE REPETITIVE. THANK YOU.

like, yes. he definitely wanted a quieter life that ultimately did not align with her ambitions. her explanation for the lakes comes to mind (‘having someone to escape with/something you want to protect, […] and saying “I may not be able to go to the lakes right now or to go anywhere, but I’m going there in my head, and this escape plan is working. […] you just kept making art, but you didn’t subscribe to the things that were killing you’). she was deeply traumatized by fame (she has explicitly used this word before anyone clutches their pearls) when they met, and she thought that level of exposure for her work was nearing its expiration date anyway. the pandemic was kind of like 2017 2.0, except it was not a personal decision anymore. i do think that seeing her work get new levels of recognition while she was healing and no longer locked away by choice made her long for bigger things again. yes, it ended up hurting her, but she ultimately chose fame and decided she no longer regretted it.

relationships also aren’t supposed to be about two people immediately breaking up when they no longer want the same things. that’s where we see taylor closing herself off to make it work while he didn’t seem to reciprocate. once again, she was the one who had to make sacrifices and go through the logistical nightmare of hiding all the time. she is the one Doing Something, but her agency and desires are not taken into consideration. was that really something she chose to do, or did she feel that it was chosen for her because their relationship was the priority by default? idk. i could see her feeling out of control there for a while, which ties into a lot of things we’ve seen from her in the last two years.