#(love to see Greg succession in Situations)

[spoopy-moose]

Greg is literally a looney tunes character dropped in the middle of a high stakes HBO drama about serious business and politics

[tomwambsgans]

part 2 to this post

so, i think it's already a common understanding that tom won succession in part through his deep understanding of everything laid out in that original post. hierarchies. he knows his place very well, ie he knows whom he's under.

-and because he knows how to utilize his position on the ladder, he's also able to climb it. particularly through shiv.

...which i feel begs the question: why? why is tom ultimately more intuitive with this system than the roy siblings?

there are multiple answers, including 1) class - tom has lifelong experience climbing up whereas the sibs were born at the top and only have experience flipping between 3 or 4 rungs; and 2) tom specifically has lived outside of logan's world and in the end is contending with those other than logan anyway, meanwhile the sibs are lost with their dad gone; but what i want to talk about most of all is the answer that factors masculinity back into it, and which concerns tom as a whole person rather than simply a corporate agent:

3) tom's innate desire for other men and repression of that desire, having grown up in the midwest during the peak of the AIDS crisis, has made him only capable of functioning within a hierarchy. he has long since carved a space for himself in the framework of heterosexual masculinity and is incredibly vulnerable without it.

what i mean by this is that tom, like many men in hypermasculine environments, recontextualizes expressions of desire into displays of power as well as ritualistic displays of submission. this is common even in outright homosexual environments due to how many men spent their lives beforehand with these hierarchies being 1) the most intimate that they ever got with other men, and/or 2) the safest way to be close with men at all. within hierarchies, there are pre-established rules, and if you touch or are touched by men in ways that follow those rules - as in, you're either exerting power or knowing your place, then you're safe from the notions of true desire. the existence of the hierarchy also implies that you will do both, once you're past the absolute bottom rung. experiencing the control of other men is simply a trial that you endure in order to be in their place one day.

and once you do this for a long time, you become blind to what desires even are. you become essentially a high-functioning depressive.

but tom also snaps on occasion, effectively utilizing his power at those times... and what's interesting is that in spite of his need to not be vulnerable, and in spite of his need to have the power in the situation, we see him shaken by his own actions. we see him not only apologetic for going too far, but on top of that, a consistent willingness to break the rules of the hierarchy and make someone else his equal. that someone, of course, being greg.

tom is clearly a romantic to his core, and this definitely extends to greg despite there being no formal romance between them, with his consistent efforts to bring greg up to his level. or rather, as close to his level as he can before he starts panicking. because as much as he clearly craves that partnership of equals, tom literally does not know how to comfortably exist in intimacy with another man unless he has those rules.

on multiple occasions he's shown to panic at the end of an otherwise equal (and therefore vulnerable) interaction and bring up notions of his position over greg to feel safe. what's notable is that even as he does so, they are simultaneously expressions of love and desire that get progressively undeniable as the show goes on:

and finally, for the whole of season 4 i think tom is in a constant state of panic that is partly due to how high up he's taken greg. there's the factor of not feeling certain that greg will stay once he no longer needs him (which i also would say is, itself, a factor in tom's comfort within a hierarchy), but also a general sort of uneasiness because he's just broken down a wall that was previously keeping him safe from his own desires. he's got to look greg in the eyes now, basically. the more power and mobility he hands to greg, the more tom has to acknowledge that being around him is just what he wants.

...and he's been keeping greg at this level for at least 3 months, so it's also definitely circumstances that tom wanted to keep nevermind the discomfort. we obviously don't know much of what happened between them offscreen but we do have those vague allusions to the disgusting brothers - evidently nights together at the bar, aka a place where businessmen can get drunk enough that it's appropriate to become equals. this gets more into headcanon territory but i gotta imagine that alcohol is a big factor in how tom grows to cope with the change. in the same way that you still take pain medication after an elective surgery.

of course, not only is tom still in the process of accepting the changes to his dynamic with greg, but season 4 also takes place over an extremely hectic and stressful one-and-a-half weeks, so it's all-around reasonable that tom continues to lash out to reinforce the hierarchy.

but once again, even moreso now, the way that he lashes out is an undeniable expression of attachment, of a desperate need to keep him close... of love. so undeniable that in the end, even greg fully understands.

[colorfullyminded]

Happy Pride month to some countries!! (Pride Months eve for the rest)

oki now heres my pinescone ask

Who do you think wouldve canonically made first move between the 2???

Ohhh this is a good one! hmmm, okay, tbh, sometimes it depends on how I'm writing a story-- sometimes I can see Dipper being the one to make the first move, sometimes I can see Wirt being the first one. It depends on situation and circumstances. I think if I were to think about it in like a canonical sense-- like if these two actually met-- both would struggle to say it. Mabel, then, being Mabel, would offer to wingwoman her brother into getting that perfect date with his crush. Of course-- Mabel, love her to death, but she is a terrible matchmaker. I know some people love making her the matchmaker between these two; sadly, I am not one of those people. I think Dipper and Wirt are both competent enough to ask each other out, and I like them getting to be the ones to do it. If I have to have someone matchmake for them-- it's Greg! Greg is surprisingly chill and good at getting these two together, oftentimes without even really realizing it, or at least, being chill enough to pretend like he doesn't know what he did. Mabel though, Mabel ends up making a bigger mess of things. So what should have been an easy, and romantic moment, actually ends up a disaster-- and by the twin's luck-- probably involves some monster coming to wreck the night.

By the time they wrap it up, and everything is winding down, Wirt and Dipper have a moment alone to just sit and breathe. Dipper apologizes for causing such a shitty night-- admitting he wanted things to go smoothly and why couldn't he just be brave and buck up the courage to ask Wirt out on his own terms. Wirt, smiling, would say "You wanted to ask me out?" Dipper would blush, realizing his slip up, and try and backpedal, but Wirt wouldn't let him. "I'd love to go on a date with you. How about the movies?"

So in the end, it be a mix of them both asking each other out. Now you could say Mabel's plan worked-- because they did end up asking each other out afterwards-- but I don't consider that really her success. Mabel's plans when it comes to love go as awry as Dipper overcomplicating and checklisting his plans. It would take Dipper and Wirt just being vulnerable with each other-- and, exhausted from the chaos of the first plan-- to finally just be honest about what they really want.

I have many ideas about the different ways these two get together, and I'm excited to eventually explore all routes.

[ellin-e]

hey gorg! having some succession thoughts and thought id come bug you about them. what do you think of tomgreg vs kenstewy.

Moki. I cannot describe my joy at receiving this question, it is immeasurable.

where to begin.

To me, these pairings are fundamentally different, partially because one has a little more solid foundation in canon, but mostly because I believe one is an actual pairing of people who (could) love each other and one is heavily situational.

Kenstewy is in my mind a tragedy of the finest sort; it's a relationship that, at the same time, could have been and could never have been. If that makes sense? Under other circumstances, it could have happened, but in this environment, and especially Kendall's environment, it could never ever be, and wasn't even close to being able to be. Ken as gay is infinitely fascinating to me, and it adds such an interesting layer to his lack of manhood in the eyes of his father. He lacks so many qualities that his father deems essential to men, both personality-wise and also physically (he can't father children, for example). Him being gay on top of that just cements him as effeminate and therefore unworthy, yk? I think, in another life, they might actually have loved each other, whilst I view Tomgreg as purely a result of their circumstances, which brings me to:

Tomgreg. It is delicious. DELICIOUS. Tom's need to have someone lesser than him, so he's not at the bottom of the food chain, and his need to take out his marital frustrations on Tom, is DELICIOUS to me. I eat it up. I giggle. I kick my feet. At the surface, Greg would be someone I would pity in this dynamic, but I just can't. He starts out as a total newbie and a loser that would be easy to pity, and I think its brilliant how the show sets him up for that but then refuses to let you fully sympathise with him. He constantly makes morally reprehensible decisions and shows no real moral fibre or even an interest in doing what is "right" or "good".

I don't think Greg is gay, I think he's very much straight, but I think Tom might be bi. At the very least I think Tom feels a sexual attraction to Greg, I just don't know whether that attraction is to Greg, or just to the power Tom has over Greg. It's again so heavily intertwined with ideas of masculinity. Tom feels emasculated by his circumstances and uses Greg to supplement that. Using Greg as this punching bag for his frustrations and insecurities makes Tom feel masculine, and in turn "turned on" in that sense. It feeds his ego and that leads to a feeling of sexual arousal.

It might be controversial for me to say that Greg isn't attracted to Tom idk. The only thing that could come close to actually changing my mind on that is the scene at the wedding in Italy, the whole "what am I gonna do with a soul anyway?", where Greg looks at Tom with the most submissive puppy eyes I have ever seen. But still, I don't think Greg is attracted to Tom, I think he's clumsily opportunistic, and attracted to what Tom can provide for him.

So I don't think we could have a coffee-shop au where Tomgreg happens, for example. Because if those power structures weren't in place, I don't think Tom would be attracted to Greg, nor vice versa. Kenstewy on the other hand, I could see happening in a coffee-shop au where Ken has gone no-contact with his abusive father and everyone lives happily ever after.

Phew, yap over.

Please tell me your thoughts!!

[randomnameless]

Glancing at something on Ao3 -

What kind of feelings Jerry was supposed to evoke, actually?

FE16 pushes the player - through Billy - to consider Jerry as a good parent, because it plays with the red herring about the evil lizard lady being evil.

And yet, even with all of his misgivings about his kid, Jerry is still the one who calls Flamey's bullshit and wonders if running away from GM wasn't the stupidest decision he ever made, just before kicking the bucket.

Being the cheap copy of the Ike'n'Greil relationship, Jerry's presence and death is supposed to be important to Billy - even in Tru Piss where they look pissed at seeing Emile and working with Uncle'n'pals.

And yet, unlike what we learn about Greil being the chadest amongst chads with 1 (one!) blackspot to his record, whenever you talk to characters about Jerry you're met with... less than rosy thoughts, even if the characters apparently handwave it away.

Let it be with Leonie, or even Alois, Billy learns that their dad wasn't the chadest of chads like Greil, but a drunkard (before Citrus' death, since Alois was a kid!) who apparently played dangerous games with people who idolised him, left his kid alone to be showered with praise by Leonie's village as he dealt with bandits, and left bar tabs all around the continent for his "apprentices" to pay.

Come the "journal" where, imo, we learn that dude was so afraid of his baby not being "normal" than he ran away from the odd lady who saved them "a long time" ago and who's pretty much not normal himself, and the place where his own wife, who displayed - partly - the same "abnormality" as their baby grew up and lived.

Then Nopes happened and did a number on poor Jerry - from mocking their kid's potential aspirations at being something else than a sword for hire, to their singing (done to cheer him up!) and actually learning he at times apparently let them go without food while he never invited them to the "thank you" parties throwns by the people his company saved...

Billy still loves their dad, but is he a good dad by any means?

With all that knowledge, after playing both FE16 and Nopes, can we really feel upset when Jerry kicks the bucket? For Billy maybe, because Jerry is important for them, but does it has the same echo as Greil's death, or even, to remain in Fodlan, Rodrigue's?

I guess if in Nopes, Jerry acted on his heel-face turn (or suddenly growing a brain) from his penultimate FE16 dialogue, we could have had a character growing beyond the red herring and the "unreliable narrator" stuff FE16's first part gave us, and maybe make for a more grounded-complete character, like confessing that he panicked after Citrus' death and worried for Billy, but regrets not being able to bring them the best life they dreamt of, and willing to apologise and let Billy grow in the same environment Citrus did.

Or maybe even explore what Jerry did in 300 years, if he never bothered to wonder why the fuck was he living to be as old as the elites, or his thoughts and feelings about Rhea periodically using hairdye to pretend to be someone else and "aging" even less than him...

Given how - or maybe i'm tainted by the fandom - FE16 thrived on the playerbase feeling characters/situation "relatable" from a doylist pov, I guess Jerry running away with bby!Billy because they weren't "normal" wasn't as weird as it sounds, babies should rightfully have a beating heart!

Bernie is a hikkikomori (forget the part where she's supposed to be the heir of one of the most important lands in Adrestia which would rightfully make her father disappointed with her (lbr, Greg would either have tried to get another kid with Bernie's mom, or got a second wife/bastard, or picked a branch member of his house to take his succession), Linhardt falls asleep and doesn't want to do his job as the next minister of Finances/whatever his dad does and prefers to hyperfocus on academic research ? How lol (please ignore the implications of House Hervring's heir being, uh, not interested in whatever his father does and how he is supposed to inherit his job (at least before Supreme Leader starts her war and pulls out her "reforms")).

Between the brackets are the first arguments that come to mind, if we consider the world those characters live in, aka Watsonian wise.

Jerry is worried about his baby's heart not beating and them not being normal? Jerry, you're not "normal" per Fodlan's standards yourself, you're over 300! Your wife had the same difficulties to emote than your kid and she might or not have had the same "heart not beating" syndrome given how it's her own heart that was transplanted in your kid

You know that what is "normal" for regular humans in Fodlan do not apply to you, your wife or your boss who oddly looks like your wife. So why was that argument even considered when you decided to run away and condemn your child to a life of "sword for hire" and danger at each day ending with a -y ?

IDK, it's as if, in BK, Kalas' bro, born without wings - which is an oddity since apparently everyone is born with some in this verse - finds Kalas weird for only having "one wing" and not two like everyone. It would be the pot calling the keetle back (but since BK is a game with coherent writing, this never happened).

Jerry runs away with the baby because the baby isn't normal despite the midwife assuring everyone they are?

Legit

300 yo Jerry runs away with the baby because the baby has the same condition as their mother despite the "immortal lady who saved his life" assuring him the baby is alright?

WTF

So, in the end, what are we supposed to think of Jerry?

Was he a character who made the best situation out of the shitty cards he was handed regarding their kid?

Or a character who swallowed an idiot plot ball to play with the doylist red herring, made errors but ultimately saw the light before being Clownya'd?

Or, given his supports and Nopes, a shitty character whose only redeeming point is to be Billy's dad, and who receives a lot of leeway by virtue of being Billy's dad by the writing team (given two fans) and the first game being from Billy's POV?

[dykenav]

[this post is about the succession SEASON ONE finale bc I’m ten years behind]

anyway like the way denial was the emotional undercurrent of everything in this episode…. starting with tom telling greg to shut up so he can block out the truth of shiv’s infidelity, to roman and the launch and just immediately shutting it off and pretending like it didn’t happen, and us as the viewer feeling the absolute horror realizing that people could have DIED, and seeing the utter disconnect in Roman, watching a livestream on his phone like it’s a video game, going back into this huge fucking party, the party itself being the physical place to symbolize the utter isolation and social disconnection of the filthy rich from the rest of the world. the tension building while we’re like jesus christ did he fucking kill people?? and then he finds out oh no, it’s just two thumbs and an arm, what a RELIEF, and we as the viewer vicariously accepting that relief as a lesser horror while still seeing the horror. the way it mirrors the horror of the first episode when roman rips up a fucking MILLION DOLLAR check in front of a poor kid. reminding us that while we might relate to their human foils and emotions, the absolute SCALE of their faults and ignorances have such massive, unfathomable consequences by virtue of their power. and then you have. fucking kendall. and the kid in the car. and it’s the exact same situation. and the thing that makes it so fucking VISCERAL is that it doesn’t jump cut to the next day. we stay with him the whole fucking time as he walks away from that scene. we watch him break back into his hotel, wash himself like fucking lady macbeth. make his way back to the party. dance with his fucking kids. the dissonance is so fucking strong. it’s like coming back to omelas after seeing the tortured child. what can you do but pretend? and tell me you haven’t fucking been there before. tell me you haven’t been at that party, where something horrible and unspeakable is happening inside of you but you have to dance and smile anyway. we all know what it’s like to be in denial. it’s human. and yet the consequences of these people’s denial, by virtue of their power, is so vast and sickening, that it becomes inhuman. they’re not inherently evil people, but the circumstances of their wealth and privilege takes their shortcomings and corrupts them into poison and bombs. all of that accumulating to logan psychologically exploiting kendall in his moment of trauma, kendall breaking down and crying like a kid, and of course he would, ANYONE would, but he’s not anyone, these people aren’t anyone. I don’t mean they’re not human, I mean the opposite. they are human children playing an elaborate game of pretend with the rest of the fucking world as their dolls. they’re not masterminds. they’re toddlers demanding to be loved and blowing shit up in the process. and it’s easy to watch and say, wow that is so fucked up. but who am I if I act like I can fully separate myself from this story and be like “welp, anyway! back to bed!” without recreating that same denial? who are any of we to act like we’re not in some way complicit to the horror of the world when in order to function and live our lives we have to completely compartmentalize the part of our brain that comprehends the news? I’m not saying a normal person is in any way shape or form as responsible as a billionaire, nor am I saying there’s any moral answer to this. I’m just saying……….. fuck

[dollsome-does-tumblr]

succession finale thoughts!

romangerri:

i don’t know if any tv show has ever given me as much of a stomachache as this episode, oooooooooof!!! the STRESS. (but honestly, the stomachache was 100% just suspense over whether gerri and roman would ever interact again. everything else, i was very zen about.)

gerri in the video radiantly reciting a dirty limerick like a roman daydream come true and roman watching her fondly!!!!! ugh!!!!! that was so schmoopy, especially for this show!!! he still loves her (not that that’s news)!!!!! and him panicking and losing it at the very sight of her and really feeling the crushing weight of his potential that she so believed in because she could have got him there!!!!!!!!!!! she also gave him a couple little not-hateful looks that might have even been sort of nice or concerned or at least ... okay, and i will cling to those for the rest of my life. but i’m so, so sad we never got to see them talk to each other again. OOF.

i have the most hope for roman just because he wound up self-aware enough to see the reality of the situation. jesse armstrong might think you’ll be a sad guy in a bar forever, but to me, there is nowhere for you to go but up, bb. and into the arms of your woman.

i hate the idea of gerri sticking with the company with tom as the ceo just because her disdain for tom was so strong; putting up with logan was one thing, putting up with roman was another even, but TOM????? tom, getting his melancholy everywhere?? however, i think it’s probably too idealistic of me to suggest that she’d turn it down for that reason. but also, maybe she would? isn’t she tired of idiot men yet??? doesn’t she want to go to the g.d. south of france already???? like, the contrast of the old camaraderie in the video of the party with logan with, like, the stupid dudebro tech culture of mattson ... ugh, i just don’t want gerri to be up in that mess! i want her to reject tom! and stand in solidarity with karl & frank! GIRL, IT’S TIME TO RETIRE!!!!!!! in any case: gerri being un-fireable remains hilarious.

gerri not really having any lines in the actual events of the ep = thumbs down forever. NOPE!

however.

roman martini-pining for gerri as his very last act onscreen.

dear GOD.

AAAAAAAH.

though i’m sure the intention of canon is for their relationship to be over forever, it was so wobbly in its over-ness that i’m pretty pleased. i do think it’s in a place where it can be very patched up in fanfic in a way that’s still canon-compliant. hell, she might roll up to that very bar and order another martini and keep him company and be like, “uh, babe, why is that cut on your forehead burst open???”! anything goes! forever! whoohoo, ao3!

i’m so relieved this is over!!!!!!!!!!

THEIR SCENE AT THE FUNERAL WAS INDEED THEIR LAST EVER SCENE AND IT GOT CUT, CLEARLY FOR MAXIMUM PAIN AND ESTRANGEMENT REASONS, AND I’M JUST GONNA HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT FOREVERMORE. jesus. will some rebellious intern just edit it back into the episode for me?

in my head they will make up tho. 💗 let the era of fix-it fics begin!

other stuff:

the sibling moments!!!!!! the rollercoaster!!!!! it’s funny how when they were getting along, i believed as much as they did that they HAD IT! and then watching them fall back into the old patterns ... it was that thing this show does best, condensed into one episode of agony. amazing acting, amazing chemistry!

ken starting to get physically abusive toward roman with the crushing hug and then smooshing his face!!!!! when before he stuck up for roman against their father’s abuse. jesus christ. :(

the contrast between the scene in the kitchen and the scene in the conference room ............... OOF!

tom and greg having their little bitchy slap fight in the bathroom, lol. tom putting his little sticker on greg’s forehead, lol.

tom really did marry up! jeez.

conwilla: the not-long-distance era, because democracy shall prevail

even beyond the flawless beauty of limerick gerri (obviously the highlight forever <3), that whole video and the kids watching it?? the emotions!!!!!!

KENDALL IS THE OLDEST BOY!!!!!!!

this episode made me feel So Bad.

roman and gerri need a spinoff where they are just cute and silly. someone please get this happening for me.

[gregoftom]

he LITERALLY put his STICKER on GREGGG???!? that happened in the SHOW. I watched it and YET it is surreal bc?????????? themmmmm. THEY. HE.

there's never been a more romantic declaration in history

he wants him no matter what!!!!! he just wants! him! always!!! with love!!!!

and showed it in front of everyyyone

GOD. ???and like? greg to recieve that??? heart so FULL my GOD. he thought he screwed everything up, blew everything, and then tom to turn that around and give so much love in gesture, in his expression. just. true love and acceptance and desire for him to be his, a place to belong and trust in. just. bliss.

how did they winnnnnnnnnnnn oml

I KNOW I KNOWWWW LIKE HONESTLY YOU SAID IT ALL LIKE. just. fuck. the way that tom accepts greg for who he is like who the fuck has EVER done that for greg before?! who has ever accepted him when he's fucked up that badly? who has ever wanted him to stay as he is? who has ever wanted him not to change? who has ever taken every sword through the heart he has and still wants him? who has ever treated him as more than a joke? who has ever touched him and given him basic human affection? who has ever kept quiet in a situation despite being one of the most terrified of not only logan but the roy family despite his desperation to become one of them for him? who has ever accepted what he does when everyone else always sees him as not good enough?

and tom did it in FRONT of everybody like that's what made the scene so huge too, every time he showed affection for greg was behind closed doors, every SINGLE fucking time. but here he is in front of everyone at waystar, including people he knows like gerri, like frank and karl, smiling at greg, stroking his arm, showing him comfort and affection in front of all. finally they come to an understanding and a stand still, where greg can see the reasoning for tom's caginess, where tom can understand greg's fear leading him to do what he did, where they have the chance to continue on this path, to develop into something more. they really do have the potential i think. like this scene was so Laced with something man, i can't even. begin to describe. the fact that it was such a tender ending too, it was so romantic, it was like something out of a goddamn romcom. for something like succession...

we fucking won!!! we won SO hard! IF GOD HATES TOMGREGS WHY THE FUCK DO WE KEEP WINNING

[whumpty-dumpty-doo]

Whumpmas in July 2024 - Day 5 - Share a TV show, movie, or any media that gives you the whumperflies!

This post is part of my participation in the 2024 @whumpmasinjuly event!

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A piece of media that gives me the whumperflies!:

It's funny, every time I get asked about something specific like this, I forget every piece of media that I've ever watched. The one that comes to mind though is one that was integral to my whump fandom awakening:

Voltron: Legendary Defender (Netflix)

I had been curious about this show for several years because one of my best friends was super into it a few years ago. However, I never took the time to sit down and watch it... until I got into the whump community and saw how much was in it.

If you've hung around my whump blog long enough, you can see that Keith is my blorbo and that I love love love to see him whumped. His baseline character is hot and angsty, and there is so much good fanart and fanfics of him in situations.

The show itself delivers a lot with hard hits, emotional turmoil, tough battles, an on-screen scarring, and so much more. It's a fun ride for whumpers! Is the story perfect? Absolutely not, but I love it for the fun, the adventure, the friendship, and of course the whump all the same. Plus, again, so many delicious whump fics and fanart to look at!

I would do some crazy things for this sad boy.

If you want a completely different kind of show/whump, I also am completely obsessed with:

Succession (HBO)

This show is grounded in reality, so you won't find anything too extreme or crazy here. If you want emotional whump though, holy cow. This show is SO GOOD. Almost all of the characters are awful (that's a compliment), no one is a good person, the stakes are high, and I was delightfully miserable the entire time I was watching it (again, another compliment).

The writing is phenomenal and keeps you on the edge of your seat, the acting is tight, the emotions are deep and strong, and watching the characters try to escape the cycle of abuse and neglect they lived through, only to become the ones who perpetuate it is so tragic and captivating. You see their self destruction and want so badly for them to get out of it, but there's nothing that you can do. It hurts.

There's a big thing that happens in the final season that just GUTS me every time, but even the little moments can be so tense and meaningful. It's brilliant. Again, I can't speak highly enough of the show, the actors, the writing, everything. If you want emotional whump, you've got it, baby!

... but it's also a super funny show with a lot of humor in it as well, so there's that! It's really needed to balance out the other parts. Genuinely, some of the funniest stuff I've seen in years. It's not all tragedy!

They look happy here, but trust me, that's rare for them.

Cousin Greg, my precious, precious string bean of a man whom I love and want to protect with my whole heart. (I literally started watching this show because of Nicholas Braun, and I don't regret it at all. Greg is the best character!)

---

Tags: @whumpmasinjuly-archive

[roman-roy-apologist]

okay but like genuinely, what makes succession worth watching because from all i see it's just rich people fucking

noooo it’s actually really fucking good and i’ll explain why

Themes. The main theme of the show is the cycle of abuse. The way abuse, grief, and trauma is portrayed is the most realistic depictions i’ve ever seen. The siblings all react to their trauma in different ways causing them to want to “win” the game that their father has created, the game of Succession. Who will live up to what their father wants them to be? What are they willing to sacrifice for that?

The siblings. There are 3 4 siblings (from oldest to youngest (probably): connor, kendall, roman, shiv. I’m gonna do subsections explaining these characters because they deserve it

Connor Roy. Connor Roy was interested in politics from a very young age. Connor is the oldest, he is the most ignored, looked over and dismissed. He has a different mother than the other 3 siblings. He’ll do anything to get his father’s attention going so far as to run for president so that his dad will notice him.

Kendall Roy. Oh god. Kendall is an addict with an unstable personality, but (at the start of the show at least) he is their dad’s favourite. In the first episode he set to inherit the company ie: “win”. His dad then goes back on his promise, blaming his drug problem (he was currently sober, stable and was in rehab for 2 years prior). This starts him on a multiple season long breakdown culminating in a situation where someone ends up dead because of Kendall and his father uses it as blackmail against him. This causes him to spiral even further completely devoting himself to his father.

Roman Roy. Hey hey motherfuckers. He’s my favourite, definitely the most relatable. He’s arguably the most dependant on their father. He blames his trauma solely on himself, idolize his dad and has serious intimacy issues. He is (as far as we know) the only child who ever faced physical abuse from their dad and he downplays his abuse constantly. He hides his trauma with a typical asshole facade, and uses sex jokes as a deflection from the fact that he can’t have sex with anyone.

Shiv (Siobhan) Roy. Can pinky dance? She’s a very controversial character but let’s be honest it’s mostly the sexism and i love her so much. For a large part of season 2 and 3 she was set to inherit the company, so close to “winning” and she would do anything to please her dad (sensing a theme here?). It’s implied she was the golden child, more babied than the rest, a large part due to her gender and her ideas are often ignored. Now, onto her failmarraige with Tom Wambsgans. She is in a toxic relationship with her husband (?) and co-worker Tom. She is clearly abusive, two-faced and uncaring in their relationship a lot of the time (not to say that Tom isn’t but i’m not gonna get into that rn). She cheats on him, reveals this on their wedding day, and they still get married. Tom clearly has no self-respect for himself, especially in the earlier seasons and directs this diminished sense of self worth in his marriage into his new assistant Greg Hirsch, a distant cousin of the Roy family. Tom and Greg end up having a weird ass psychosexual relationship (it’s never explicitly gay just super implied and boy does this show love implying things) while his and Shiv’s marriage is falling apart.

THIS SHOW IS SO GOOD PLEASE WATCH IT I PROMISE YOW WONT REGRET IT

[david-box]

Unrelated to my other post and tbh I haven't re watched Succession much less kept up with the hashtag analysis or whatever because for the majority of episodes it's kind of not something I give a shit about but I am completely enamored with Tom as a character truly zero thoughts to this but I wanna see him go fucking batshit. Like I want to see him pull that one boar on the floor thing but absolutely forcing people into it like mostly ohysicoally or through gritted teeth. I wanna see him throw a toddler. I wanna see him fight someone and bite idec if he wins but God it would be so fucking funny if he did. Logan is never going to give away his inheritance because he doesn't realize he's not even willing to but I wanna see Tom assassinate him anyway. Please let this man physically attack someone like let him be tall, it's so great, I love it. I hope basic bland Midwestern food mashed potatoes and corn casserole get involved and he completely fucks Romans fancy wool sweater and smokes Kendal's weed in front of him and does something to piss off Siobhan I guess I don't remember if she has non career related hobbies or interests at this point. Drinks her wine. Idk. I also wanna see him tear the floorboards up off Connor's boat and I sincerely hope he just rips Greg's hair out. I don't want it to be justified it'd be cool if it did like old money vs middle class middle American jealously type situation or something who GIVES A SHIT. I need BLOOD RAH RAH RAH

[fangirlforlife97]

I finally finished Succession and OMG IT'S SOOOOO GOOD!!!!!! The twist at the end of s3 had me shooketh haha, I literally gasped and had my mouth hanging open in shock. Shouldn't have been surprised, but I was. Shiv, Roman, and Kendell were done so dirty and by both of their parents, yikes. I loved it, I love the show, it made me laugh and cry/tear up, etc and I need a s4 asap!! Does anyone know when s4 is coming out?? I tried looking it up before and wasn't really given a specific date so Im not sure. I hope it's soon though!!?!!

I really hope the show makes Tom and Greg's dynamic/relationship romantic. Sure their dynamic hasn't always been the greatest in a way but I love them, TomGreg was the reason I wanted to watch the show in general. I watched for them but then loved the show and watched because of that as well. I love shows like that where you can enjoy the ship and the show. I think it would be a hugely missed opportunity if they don't go a romantic route with them though. Not to mention the chemistry is amazing and it'd be hella great to see everyone react when and if Tom gets with cousin Greg haha. Plus like I've said, Tom is the most queer coded character I have ever seen. Why have him be portrayed that way unless he's gay or bi!!?? Fingers crossed for canon Tomgreg. Also I would love to see more of a Connor, Tom, and Greg Trio friendship. We got a little bit of it during Tom's bachelor party under the tunnel near the rat (I believe) and think it would just be comedic gold to have those three interact more. I doubt we'll get it after Tom's betrayal but one can hope! Also since I'm speaking of Connor, I feel bad for him cause of the whole Willa situation. Like at times I feel like maybe she does like or love him but then other times it feels like she's using him or whatnot and so I feel bad for him.

When I first started watching the show my favorite characters were Kendall, Tom, Greg, and Frank, even though we didn't get much of him. He just seemed so likable or had a likable face. I feel like in some ways he kind of reminded me of Bill from Killing Eve. Frank I feel like is the "Bill" of Succession. I also liked Connor, I thought he seemed the most mellow and mature but boy was I wrong haha. He's great though. I wasn't too fond of Roman and Shiv at first, especially with how Roman treated and taunted that kid during the first episode at the baseball game. And Shiv because of the whole situation with Greg and his $20, and how she treats Tom. As time went on though I ended up slightly disliking Kendall and liking the others more, but ya now I pretty much like all of them. Logan's a prick but I even like him cause he adds extra tension and drama to the series.

Am I the only one hoping in the next coming season or couple seasons that we get flashbacks of Shiv, Roman, Conner and Kendall when they were kids?! And a prequel series of Logan and his family and upbringing!!!???? I'm so intrigued and would like to see both of these things happen in some aspect.

[thefudge]

i legit saw people criticizing this season because of the lack of tomgreg and the ammount of tomshiv

i wonder what the diehard tomgreg fans would even want to see at this point. we're in the final act of this tragicomedy and things are looking grim for most of these people. what sort of outcome would make sense for tom & greg at this point? greg has become a bigger asshole than tom and doesn't seem to know it. whatever made tomgreg sort of fun and human and weird has been gutted and laid to waste, and i'd say that's not the writers hating on tomgreg but rather the sad and natural outcome of their corrupt soul-selling pact. for all the dark humor and outlandish jokes the show loves to coat its dialogue in, succession engages with morality very seriously, in that it takes the very old school approach of showing that every action has a moral consequence that will weigh on you, even if you "succeed".

i totally get wanting to read an AU where tom and greg run away together or smth, but you'd have to start it somewhere circa season two. because these two, like many other characters, can't really recover from the trajectory they've been set on. it's fascinating to watch, if painful, yeah.

the situation is similar with tomshiv, but tomshiv seems to thrive much more on pain lol (cuz they are more real and raw than tomgreg, which was never allowed to really develop emotionally). so yeah, you can write the fix-it fic for 4x07 but it doesn't work unless you address and untangle and undo all the choices these characters have made.

[lesser-mook]

Stop Emasculating Men, Then Wondering Where All The Good Men Went

BY: GREG ELLIS

Women Are Human Too — With Human Flaws

As Macrocreeps will tell you, women are goddesses apparently.

Can do no wrong, above us greasy mere mortals known as men that are here to serve. According to society, women's shit don't stink.

As a society, we buy into an unspoken and pervasive bias in favor of women: as the fairer sex, they must be inherently more righteous and loving than men. Yet we are all human, and capable of being slaves to base passions. Just as men’s, women’s passions can manifest in destructive and ugly ways.

Well this isn't a modern phenomena, bias toward women is in our DNA, they bear the babies. So we associate women with children and babies, it's why we treat women with the same tolerance & lack of accountability we spare for children who don't know how to make sound rational decisions.

The problem is society has progressed but it hasn't "advanced", progression just means you moved in a direction, it doesn't mean it's the right direction.

Advancement is to go in a better vector than previously, to advance is to evolve.

Civilization hasn't evolved, we infantilize women then wonder why some women act weird, we wonder where Karens come from, why young Women are so entitled yet so useless in a utility sense of a relationship.

We're raising them to be passive bystanders in their own lives and encourage them to be bosses and produce absolutely nothing.

That's not our bias toward women being a construct of modern society, it's natural, but the same energy we exert to keep men in check we need to exercise it to keep women in check as well.

Because infantilizing women ,giving them trophies for being "the first women to-" [insert thing a man has already done[ is just treating women like actual children.

They're winners for playing, not actually doing anything worthy of praise.

The bias isn't the entire issue. It's the hypocrisy.

Recognizing this doesn’t negate the plight women have endured in a historically male-dominated world. It simply suggests women hold no monopoly on virtue. Women’s ascendance past centuries-old barriers is remarkable and praiseworthy. Almost all the men I know look with pride and amazement at the mothers and daughters in their lives, and understand the “Me Too” movement is a long-overdue reckoning for bad men. But why must success for one sex automatically include derision for the other? The laudable, original objective of the feminist movement urging us to better our traditional manhood has warped into an assault on everything masculine. It strips away empathy for boys, who must navigate a world that assumes the worst of them.

Apparently women aren't flawed. Criticizing them is misogyny and could result in you losing your job.

Their word alone can send you to jail and if she lied well oh well, you lost years of your life and her identity will be protected.

Oops? Welcome to honorary Second class citizenship, dear males. Acknowledge your privilege to go die in any situation that threatens women to preserve the lives of women and if you don't you'll be canceled and lose everything:

Remember, women are oppressed in first world countries.

And don't you dare tell a woman she looks nice today that's considered violence.

See we drive men and women apart, we don't challenge articles that are doing nothing but inflating the problem, then wonder why society is going down the crapper.

It's a real mystery.

Ostracizing Masculinity

Men kill themselves at a rate almost 400 percent higher than women. They also make up the vast majority of combat deaths; more than 97 percent of American military fatalities in Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom were men.

And nobody cares because men suffering is beneath our notice, it's normalized into the culture. So normalized there's a fetish that specializes in emasculating men to the furthest extent possible as an inferior derivative of the human species and painting women as omnipotent & superior, even actual goddesses.

(overcompensating much?)

Male suffering is all part of the plan baby, it's how you bring a country down to it's knees. Better believe it.

The quick ascendence of this concept to cultural gospel is reflected by how common the phrase has become. Although The New York Times has since removed its calculator for word frequency in its coverage, screenshots posted to Twitter suggest the term “toxic masculinity” was basically nonexistent in the media until recently. After that, its prevalence appears on the graph as a slope verging on vertical. The same is true for related terms like “patriarchy” and “male privilege.” A Google search for the term “toxic masculinity” yields more than 7.5 million results. Start scrolling, and you’ll see articles like The New York Times’ “The Boys Are Not All Right,” Scientific American’s “How to Fight Toxic Masculinity,” and The Atlantic’s “Toxic Masculinity and the Brokenness of Boyhood” — which appears to have been stealth-edited with the new title, “The Miseducation of the American Boy.”

“Toxic Masculinity and the Brokenness of Boyhood”

Brokenness of Boyhood, listen to that language, the insinuation of inherit defection. I can just taste the venom through my screen. Holy shit.

Imagine it: "The Brokeness of Girlhood"

Now mind you, the inherent toxicity of women manipulating people, their propensity to be passive aggressive, jealous, vindictive, & turn people against each other, plot murders, warp a situation by feigning weakness or using tears to turn a situation- Things girls learn subliminally as children to influence the behavior of their parents and then authorities to the best of one's ability.

It even happens in classrooms or parties. Women are not stupid and it's a natural instinct of women , but it's actually very dangerous.

The entire point of GONE GIRL is to show how effective a woman can be if she really wanted to mess someone up without putting her hands on anyone.

See the problem is we've made it so "toxicity" is only defined by what men normally do wrong, not by women's standards too.

So that way when it's time for women to take accountability, it's never time, because there's always an excuse or a phantom patriarchy to blame.

The “toxic masculinity” narrative deepened further in 2019, when the American Psychological Association, for the first time in its history, developed official guidelines for working with men and boys. The document is discouraging, calling for recognition of “the impact of power, privilege, and sexism on the development of boys and men” and casting what it considers “traditional” male behavior as inherently problematic.

That's the point. That's how you destroy what makes a Country a threat. Masculinity.

North Korea is not shaking in their boots because we have Sensitivity Classes or because THE VIEW has an opinion, hell this is only an argument if pretend women never start fights or cause trouble.

When people say if women ruled the world-

Harnessing electricity would've been postponed, don't kid yourselves. We might be a more cultured world for sure with women on top, but our advancement ?Technology? Say bye bye to your vibrators kiddos.

All in all, America is very effeminate, that's partly why it's failing.

Where Is the Empathy For Men?

Ignored, Americans have an inclusive, sensitive, tolerant society (Gemini A.I will tell you this bullshit)-- Unless Men or White people are involved in the conversation.

It’s debated whether certain masculine behaviors are born of dubious socialization or are the function of natural, hormone-driven biological traits. Meanwhile, many of the people shouting about toxic men also inexplicably claim there are no differences between the sexes. The idea that men can only redeem their fundamental brokenness by acting more like women is not limited to the gated community of elite academia. It permeates the nation’s mainstream reading lists. Just one example from late 2019 was the book “For the Love of Men” by Liz Plank. On the very first page, we are told toxic masculinity is more dangerous than nuclear war, followed by chapter after chapter of dodgy research in which toxic masculinity is essentially defined as any behavior Plank doesn’t like.

there's legitimate criticisms on women's part, men do commit majority of violent crimes but they also build the cities in full, bridges, die doing it too- are men going to get articles on mass presting that fact ? No.

#MenAreTrash looks better on a T-Shirt, meanwhile they're out right now building your goddam malls

First world societies need masculinity when matriarchy fails civilization and then in peacetime men need to closely emulate or turn into women or else they're problematic.

That's exactly how it works.

Where is the empathy for men? The question doesn’t require us to disregard women’s historical suffering. Rather, it simply acknowledges most men are neither predators nor abusers, and asks the same empathy and sympathy for men that our feminist society demands for women.

"-and asks the same empathy and sympathy for men that our feminist society demands for women."

So we're asking people to exercise equality between men and women......

- which is what our foremother's wanted in the first place but their daughters inherited a hybrid of privilege and Platinum First Class Protected Status, damn near ranking above the elders and children.

We're asking Feminist society to do it's fucking job, lmfao.

[grlstupid]

different but the same

Jesse Armstrong said it was a tragedy, but in a way it felt like the Roy siblings were finally free with the sale of Waystar. Somehow when they were confronted with the reality that they would never get what they wanted it felt like they would finally have a chance to become human again, to heal from the trauma their father passed on to them. Connor would never have to beg for approval, Kendall would never be CEO, Roman would never be beaten again, and Shiv for a moment had all the power in the world. 

People seem to compare Succession to Arrested Development, and in a superficial way, they are similar. 4 siblings, vying for power in their family company, even though said company is, from the audience’s point of view, doomed to fail. Emotionally distant parents, crimes committed by executives being covered up by the company, weird sexual tension between cousins (though at least Tom and Greg are only related through marriage). In some ways, the shows mirror each other. But the audience doesn’t root for members of the Bluth family. We don’t feel sorry for them, because we see their trauma depicted within a comedic setting. When Buster loses his hand, it’s played off with a recurring bit from the doctor who uses common phrases incorrectly, which changes the meaning of his words. With the Roy siblings, we see the symptoms of their childhood trauma, Roman excusing his father’s physical abuse by blaming himself, saying that it was his fault because he “was fucking annoying.” 

Because of the absurdity of Arrested Development, it’s hard, if not impossible, to relate to the characters. But with Succession, we can see ourselves in these emotionally stunted adult children. Siobhan, sabotaging her relationship because she feels she’s undeserving of Tom’s love, simultaneously pushing him away and giving him everything he wants. She consistently shows him her worst qualities instead of her best, manipulates him and is unable to show any vulnerability. She goes to him in her weakest moments, and yet in those moments she can only bring herself to act cruelly towards him. In a way, she’s the reason he became her father.

Tom was able to become Logan because Kendall never could be. Logan was addicted to power because he didn’t grow up with it, while Kendall never had to struggle the same way. Of course he still has hardships, he has an inferiority complex, was clearly neglected as a child, and goes through major depressive episodes. We never see him attempt suicide, but we see him in moments where it’s implied he’s considering it, as if he doesn’t know how to feel better about his situation, so he reacts in the most extreme way. In some ways Kendall is still a toddler, he throws tantrums when things don’t go his way, and seems to function better when someone else is enforcing a routine on him. Because he wasn’t raised by his parents, he never grew up in the ways that matter; in the first episode his ex-wife jokes about him using cocaine in front of his children. Nobody taught him to make good choices because nobody cared enough to do so, or they didn’t know how because they never learned themselves (looking at you, Connor). 

Connor may be the most interesting of the Roy children. In some ways, he seems to be the most well-adjusted, but we see him crack under pressure, which explains his lack of employment. It makes sense when you consider how his childhood was different from his siblings; his mother had a mental health crisis, and though we never really learn all the details, the only reason people are forcibly institutionalized is when they physically harm themselves or others, and we know that he lived with his mother when she was sent to the facility where she presumably still lived, if she was alive during the events of the show. Children of sick parents rarely grow up to be healthy adults, and Connor is not an exception to the rule. He parents his younger siblings to give them something he never had, he take Willa away from society so he can have all her attention, instead of fighting for scraps of love like the rest of his siblings. His bid for the presidency is delusional, but he’s so far removed from reality that he genuinely believes he can win and when he loses, he still manages to see his failure as a success. 

Connor also gives Roman his only happy childhood memory. It’s not clear whether Roman was the only one physically abused as a child, or if he just the most common target of Logan’s anger. He’s often compared to a dog, and feels like he isn’t worthy of love. He clearly still has some affection for Logan, which can sometimes confuse the audience, but then we see brief moments of Logan with Roman. Caroline says at one point that Logan “never saw anything he loved that he didn't wanna kick”. This seems to be the core of Roman’s relationship with his father; he keeps going back to Logan because he associates love with pain. We see it again in Roman’s final moment alone in the show with Kendall. Ken hugs Roman, and the hug turns painful and somewhat violent, but Roman doesn’t fight it. He leans in, because he can’t go to his father, but in that moment Kendall proves to be a good enough substitute in that moment.

[reasoncourt]

Okay here’s one. The collective fandom response to Nic Braun being “well, I never liked Greg anyway” + “does that mean I can’t enjoy Greg anymore?” + “I’m going to continue to watch succession cause Nick is only a small part of it” is disgusting. You’re centering GREG in a discussion around real life sexual assault. It also highlights how some people think fandom is the height of activism. Also I’ve always thought of him as a useless preying mantis of a side character but it’s weird to use the situation as a gotcha for Greg fans. Women’s sexual abuse is not just an opportunity to go “finally, a valid reason to hate people who love this character.”

ok so this got lost in my inbox but it was part of the controversial opinions thing.

honestly, yeah. the response has been disappointing to say the least. tbf, i guess most people on succblr engage with nic only via his role on succession. so SOME of them are possibly just expressing that theyre not sure how they should alter their media consumption wrt succession in response to the allegations. which. yeah. is definitely performative and you could argue it's indicative of them centering their self perception of their own moral purity over actual sexual assault and real life harm. i.e. they see these allegations and their first thought is "how can i maintain my perception of myself as a morally good person" thereby centering themselves in the narrative rather than the victim. and part of this mindset is people will retroactively say "oh i never liked him. i didnt even like his character. there was always something off. people who didnt see that are morally inferior to me" etc. which is all silly. so idk. honestly the discourse is upsetting and the fact that it feels like everyone promptly forgot about the allegations is also upsetting.

but i would just say. in the kindest way possible. u have come into my inbox to complain to me about how this situation is affecting greg fans. so yk. something to think about