#(laws undermining bodily autonomy come to mind!!!!!)

[creekfiend]

I saw this on FB today and I wanna try and express something about it. Like, you know the curbcutter effect? Where when curbcuts are put in it benefits everyone (bicyclists, people with baby strollers etc) and not just disabled people?

There is also whatever the opposite of the curbcutter effect is. And this is that.

This isn't just anti-adhd/autism propaganda... this is anti-child propaganda.

Kids have developmentally appropriate ways that they need to move their bodies and express themselves and sitting perfectly still staring straight ahead is not natural or good for ANY CHILD.

Don't get me wrong, I was punished unduly as a kid for being neurodivergent (and other types of kid will ALSO be punished unduly for it... Black kids come to mind) and thus UNABLE to perform this -- but even the kids who ARE able to perform this type of behavior are not SERVED WELL by it. They don't benefit from it.

This is bad for everyone.

The idea that bc some kids may be capable of complying with unfair expectations, those expectations don't hurt them... is a dangerous idea. Compliance isn't thriving. Expectation of compliance isn't fair treatment.

[oleanderblume]

A Not Very Easy Thing to Talk About.

☆Detransitioners☆

("Trans" is in reference to ALL trans people, as well as intersection people, not just binary trans folk)

It seems, in the trans community, we really REALLY don't talk about detransitioners. And I can completely understand WHY.

The prospect of detransitioners is scary, because I'm sure every trans person has wondered at one point "am I just..wrong?" And that is understandable. It is so understandable that I'm sure when you think about- if you think too hard about it, you can so easily convince yourself to not to come out or move forward into getting HRT.

Not only that but every time someone detransitions, that adds fuel to the fire for terfs and transphobes. They use detransitioners stories to vilify and undermine trans peoples experiences, to pass laws that restrict our access to Healthcare, public spaces, and strip us of our bodily autonomy.

Because "this cis girl/boy was so convinced by the big bad tr*nnies to transition and now they will never EVER be the same!!! *gasp*"

That is terrifying.

Except its not.

People who transitioned or were on HRT and later learned that it wasn't the right move are not BAD, they aren't our enemies and they deserve to be HEARD and listened to.

Their stories and experiences are twisted up to make trans people look bad, but they are also the ones being affected by this.

I understand how easily these peoples experiences can be used against us, used against THEM.

But I also understand that as a trans person I SHOULD listen to their stories. Because it is both enlightening and validating.

Gender identity is a messy MESSY thing, and with increased access to Healthcare for trans folks, while that is absolutely FANTASTIC, that increases the risk of transitioning when that isn't the best option for you. Not everyone has access to gender therapy, or medical care, or the information that is so incredibly pertinent to know and have in your arsenal before even attempting to move into HRT.

People have the internet now, and trans people are more visible and gender identity is very often treated as an extreme. Like transitioning is the ONLY way you can feel better if you have an inkling of gnc traits.

Most often this is by ill informed people who genuinely mean the best, because no trans person is going to force someone to transition when they are questioning. No medical professional is going to push you to transition if they don't think you are 100% down with it.

But the fact that ill informed people who mean the best and poorly explained experiences from trans folks on top of detransitioners being completely swept under the rug when they are undoubtedly a part of the trans community serves absolutely no one.

It means that questioning people or gnc folks don't get a well rounded idea of their options, or they may inadvertently be lead to believe that they have to transition or start HRT to feel better.

I'm not saying that you "have to have dysphoria to be trans"- no, I'm saying that people who may have other underlying issues are under the impression that those issues are from being trans when they might very well not be. And that is alright.

Hrt doesn't fix all your problems, if you have issues with mental health, or the way you are perceived by society- internalized misogyny or misunderstood or literally anything that can be easily mistaken for internalized transphobia and/or gender dysphoria it can really make it even more confusing.

And there are people out there who have experienced that, and decided to transition and then realized that their gender wasn't the problem. And I cannot explain to you how important it is to listen to those experiences and apply that to yourself. To Guage whether or not transitioning in any form is the best call for you.

The reason I say that is because there ARE people who reinforce your questioning by being adamant with what you are experiencing- regardless of whether or not their take is correct.

It is your responsibility to do as much research and gather as much knowledge about the pros and cons and the experiences that ALL of the trans community has, including detransitioners.

And we as trans people shouldn't be so skeptical and ignorant of detransitioners when they tell their stories.

People detransition for a plethora of reasons, albeit majority of detransitioners end up moving along with transition again because of support and being out of dangerous situations, there are folks who detransition simply because it wasn't the move they needed to make for themselves.

That being said, detransitioners who actively denounce the trans community and blame the Healthcare system for "pushing them into transition" is also..not chill. It is still your decision to start hrt.

You are still jumping through every single hoop to transition and deflecting the responsibility you take when you utilize your bodily autonomy and informed consent to go through with transition isn't going to help you OR the trans community.

It is so so SO important to research and learn different perspectives before you commit to anything.

Okay. So I know that last bit was kind of harsh, and I know this post is kind of if not already controversial and there is no easy way to fix all the issues surrounding trans people, within the community and without.

That being said, I think one of the things we, as a community can do to truly help eachother, is to make sure that we aren't inadvertently pushing people into making a very drastic decision.

As a community, all of us should be informed about ALL ASPECTS of being trans, or cis and detransitioning. And we should be encouraging questioning people to gather all the information they can before going through with a decision.

And offer the different perspectives, lifting up voices of those who have experiences that are not the ideal, cause I hate to break it to you but being trans is beginning to get romanticized and that only bodes poorly for all of us.

This has been a thought on my mind for a while...and I know I didn't articulate it perfectly, I'm doing my best, I just simply don't believe that detransitioners and detransitioning should be so flagrantly ignored- for the sake of future trans generations, for the sake of our rights and our humanity.

We should talk about it. And take the ownership of the conversation AWAY from terfs and transphobes. Because it doesn't belong to them. Okay. I'm done now.

[justicewithpockets]

I had a productive discussion about justice this week. I figure I’d share in case it helps clarify ideas for anyone else. Basically this is my revised thought process:

Peace, stability, and order are often a social good. When we think about how we want our society, friendships, family, and lives to be, peace, stability, and order often play a role.

Peace, stability, and order come in degrees. At one extreme, society enforces peace, stability and order at all costs, silencing dissidents and ruthlessly persecuting threats to the status quo. At another extreme, we have society careening out of our ability to safely control its changes, or a post-apocalyptic war-torn lawless nightmare where there is no peace whatsoever.

We balance stability against other goods. Sometimes, we decide that there are other goods worth fighting for— widespread literacy, bodily autonomy, equal treatment under the law, reparation of injustice, etc. When we do, we may decide to trade a little social stability (one kind of good) for another good that we want more of. This results in vigorous civic engagement, protests, riots, even political coups.

Change can be genuinely dangerous and costly. Challenging the status quo comes at a cost: interpersonally, you might feel uncomfortable confronting someone, or you might be ostracized for your beliefs. At a societal level, revolutions can be bloody business. But the risks can be even more severe than this: if you think that society is especially fragile, then you might worry that any change— even change for the sake of justice— might tear society apart. If you believe that society is currently stable in its unjust state, and if you believe that this stability is so fragile that any change might obliterate society entirely, then you might prefer stability above these other goods, even if you agree with their moral importance.

Human psychology dictates what we're willing to trade for stability. Change can be genuinely dangerous and costly. Common sense says that people are less willing to exchange stability for goods that do not benefit them very much. But the tribal nature of human beings tends to mean that people don't see “outsiders'” justice as benefitting them very much. So they will tend to advocate for general peace, stability, and order, over the flourishing of “other” people.

Some conservatives may be afraid of society's collapse. This is a difficult point to express, but an important one. Society is undergoing many changes, some of which people fear will end society altogether: proliferation of nuclear weapons is one. The spread of AI and the gig economy are another. Even things like genetically-modified organisms and the escalation of non-organic farming practices raise this fear. This kind of fear is universal and cross-cultural, although its targets differ. I think there may be people out there who similarly believe that widespread abortions and/or racial-cultural-religious equality and/or undermining of traditional gender roles may remove an essential stabilizing element from our society. Although I believe that they are misinformed and morally incorrect, I think that it is possible and important to understand this point of view in order to reach people. Certainly people are varying degrees of terribly misinformed, hateful, bigoted, selfish, power-mad, close-minded etc. And it's a shame that people are so inherently tribal that they tend to devalue the rights and flourishing of others. But change—even for the sake of justice—is genuinely dangerous and fear of society's collapse is, I think, an understandable impulse and a place from which we might perhaps begin to strike up a conversation.

I want to push for justice over order. I think that some changes might doom society as we know it. Society might be so fragile that even the issues that I hold sacred, like a pluralistic, egalitarian society or universal education/basic income, might cause societal rifts that tear our social fabric apart. In less extreme cases, revolutions may be bloodier than we expect, and for me and my loved ones in particular. I don't think these changes will doom society, but on the other hand, I don't think we can predict our impact at a societal scale well enough to tell for sure. I think we should continue asking and checking. But I do know for sure that humans are tribal and change-averse. To counteract this tendency in myself, I want to strive for justice outside of my comfort zone. I want to push myself to make the world a better, fairer, kinder place for its people, even when those changes feel like they're coming too fast, or that they're making too many waves and people are getting hurt. Sure I want to be careful so that I don't actually cause unnecessary harm and turmoil when I can avoid it— but I want to grow to become less attached to peace, stability, and order for me and even for my loved ones. The flourishing of humanity as a whole depends on it.

[neotales]

I am an adult who is still that kid who can’t just sit down and do what that says. When I’m in training or studying something, I have to move or talk… I won’t be able to focus if I’m forced to sit still.

Even if it’s drawing while listening, it makes the experience easier for me.

I saw this on FB today and I wanna try and express something about it. Like, you know the curbcutter effect? Where when curbcuts are put in it benefits everyone (bicyclists, people with baby strollers etc) and not just disabled people?

There is also whatever the opposite of the curbcutter effect is. And this is that.

This isn't just anti-adhd/autism propaganda... this is anti-child propaganda.

Kids have developmentally appropriate ways that they need to move their bodies and express themselves and sitting perfectly still staring straight ahead is not natural or good for ANY CHILD.

Don't get me wrong, I was punished unduly as a kid for being neurodivergent (and other types of kid will ALSO be punished unduly for it... Black kids come to mind) and thus UNABLE to perform this -- but even the kids who ARE able to perform this type of behavior are not SERVED WELL by it. They don't benefit from it.

This is bad for everyone.

The idea that bc some kids may be capable of complying with unfair expectations, those expectations don't hurt them... is a dangerous idea. Compliance isn't thriving. Expectation of compliance isn't fair treatment.

[obiusperson]

from the tags:

#theres a lot of things lately that make me think of this where#people will act like theres this class of people not harmed by something#(laws undermining bodily autonomy come to mind!!!!!)#and its like -- no. the consequences will be worse for some people#but no one is ultimately served by the erosion of bodily autonomy like there is not a class of people who benefit from that#same with lack of right to privacy#there isnt a DEMOGRAPHIC of people who benefit from certain things#there are systems that do. and there may be a handful of individuals who benefit partially or FOR NOW#until those systems are turned against them#i think its important to remind people in certain privileged demographics that like#certain things do benefit them#and others DON'T#you may suffer less statistically but it doesnt benefit you!#its BAD SOCIETALLY.

And my psychologist be hearing about this

I saw this on FB today and I wanna try and express something about it. Like, you know the curbcutter effect? Where when curbcuts are put in it benefits everyone (bicyclists, people with baby strollers etc) and not just disabled people?

There is also whatever the opposite of the curbcutter effect is. And this is that.

This isn't just anti-adhd/autism propaganda... this is anti-child propaganda.

Kids have developmentally appropriate ways that they need to move their bodies and express themselves and sitting perfectly still staring straight ahead is not natural or good for ANY CHILD.

Don't get me wrong, I was punished unduly as a kid for being neurodivergent (and other types of kid will ALSO be punished unduly for it... Black kids come to mind) and thus UNABLE to perform this -- but even the kids who ARE able to perform this type of behavior are not SERVED WELL by it. They don't benefit from it.

This is bad for everyone.

The idea that bc some kids may be capable of complying with unfair expectations, those expectations don't hurt them... is a dangerous idea. Compliance isn't thriving. Expectation of compliance isn't fair treatment.

[ohwell-itsme]

#theres a lot of things lately that make me think of this where#people will act like theres this class of people not harmed by something#(laws undermining bodily autonomy come to mind!!!!!)#and its like -- no. the consequences will be worse for some people#but no one is ultimately served by the erosion of bodily autonomy like there is not a class of people who benefit from that#same with lack of right to privacy#there isnt a DEMOGRAPHIC of people who benefit from certain things#there are systems that do. and there may be a handful of individuals who benefit partially or FOR NOW#until those systems are turned against them#i think its important to remind people in certain privileged demographics that like#certain things do benefit them#and others DON'T#you may suffer less statistically but it doesnt benefit you!#its BAD SOCIETALLY.

I saw this on FB today and I wanna try and express something about it. Like, you know the curbcutter effect? Where when curbcuts are put in it benefits everyone (bicyclists, people with baby strollers etc) and not just disabled people?

There is also whatever the opposite of the curbcutter effect is. And this is that.

This isn't just anti-adhd/autism propaganda... this is anti-child propaganda.

Kids have developmentally appropriate ways that they need to move their bodies and express themselves and sitting perfectly still staring straight ahead is not natural or good for ANY CHILD.

Don't get me wrong, I was punished unduly as a kid for being neurodivergent (and other types of kid will ALSO be punished unduly for it... Black kids come to mind) and thus UNABLE to perform this -- but even the kids who ARE able to perform this type of behavior are not SERVED WELL by it. They don't benefit from it.

This is bad for everyone.

The idea that bc some kids may be capable of complying with unfair expectations, those expectations don't hurt them... is a dangerous idea. Compliance isn't thriving. Expectation of compliance isn't fair treatment.