#(I think being proship is the neutral because it’s minding your own business really but people are dumb)

[shinyphoenix]

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[fortheloveofpiggy]

TW this is a rant about proship and comship! Tags will have more in-depth trigger warnings

Edit: OMG PROSHIPPERS STOP MAKING THIS POST ABOUT DEFENDING IF SHIPPING CHILD X ADULT OR INCEST IS OKAY OR NOT THE POST IS ABOUT THE LABLE I DONT WANT TO ARGUE WITH YALL ABOUT THAT ANYMORE.

This is my one post where all people on all sides of the proship debate can interact. Including proshippers. If that makes you uncomfortable then don’t interact. I hate echo chambers and I want to hear all sides.

Also sorry for cross tagging just want the opinions from all sides

Actual post:

I hate the terms proship, neutral ship, and antiship. They’re all extremes and I hate them. From what I understand the meanings are

Proship: support all ships no matter what even if they’re comships

Neutral ship: doesn’t have an opinion at all

Antiship: is anti any comship which is outrageous

If y’all don’t know comship just means complex ship or they enjoy more morally grey or imperfect ships. This can include things like human X different intelligent species (like aliens, furries, monsters) which most rational people don’t think is bad. But this can also mean kid X adult, family x family, or victim X abuser

I actually don’t identify as pro, neu, or anti because I think some comships are good and healthy. I think morally grey ships are important in media when done correctly. Especially since a lot of relationships are rocky and not always healthy and it’s good to show that in media. My own ocs personally aren’t in a perfectly healthy relationship because of their own issues. But this should be done respectfully and with care. Abuse shouldn’t be romanticized but people can be romantic outside of the abuse going on just like in real life relationships

But in a pedophilic fan fiction or art or an incest fanfic or art there is no such thing as a loving part of it. The relationship in itself is abuse because a minor being with a child is abuse and family members being together is abuse. It’s not healthy for anyone involved to romanticize relationships like that and frankly can effect reality no matter how you spin it because it’s representing something as normal to kids.

Right now a lot of neutrals, antis, and probably a lot of pro shippers are agreeing but that’s where my point really starts

The term “proship” and “anti ship” are too vague. If you say you’re proship you sound like you defend media where children are harmed. I understand the meaning is being proshipping and minding your business but that’s still what you look like and frankly that’s what the term does. If you’re pro everything then that means you’re pro the harmful stuff too

And the term “antiship” suggest that you’re anti shipping in general or anti any complex ship which is also unhealthy for us all because morally grey topics need brought up. Antis also are very very commonly okay with harassment when it comes to proshippers

And neutral ship is basically just saying you don’t have a opinion at all which is harmful because you’re suggesting you’re okay with the harm done on both sides. And I understand some people who are neutral ship agree with me and don’t just not care but I feel like majority is the former not the latter (based on what I’ve seen)

Also disclaimer if you’re neutral because of mental health or because you have better things to deal with that’s valid but identifying as neutral ship does put you in it and i instead suggest staying out of it entirely

So idk maybe we should make a term for the middle. I had a few ideas maybe something like middleship or intentship (intentship meaning enjoying or allowing all ships as long as the intentions are good and are not to romanticize trauma or abuse)

Idk everyone can share their opinions but if I see another proshipper say fiction doesn’t effect reality I’m gonna scream and if I see another anti shipper call all morally grey ships bad as if they done killed their grandma I’ll go insane

[starrbar]

The word "proship" is about as descriptive as "mutt" nowadays.

Lil disclaimer: This is only about me and my personal experiences. Call yourself whatever you like. It's your actions I will judge, not your label.

There are two reasons why I try to avoid directly labeling myself as "proship" or even "profiction" despite sharing many, if not all, of the views those terms are supposed to stand for.

I wrote about the first reason here.

This is the second reason:

I have seen the terms proship/proshipper/profiction used by real people in the following ways, NOT counting the things antis claim it means:

"Ship and let ship" / "Your kink is not my kink (and that's okay)"

"Not caring what other people like"

"Minding your own business"

"Curating your experience"

"Scrolling when your see something you dislike instead of making a fuss over it"

"Being into taboo subjects"

"Supporting all ships, including pedophilic or incestuous ones"

"Being against thought crimes"

"Anti-harassment over fiction"

"Anti-censorship"

"Fiction doesn't equal reality" / "Fiction isn't reality"

"Fiction doesn't affect reality at all"

"Being able to tell the difference between fiction and reality"

And then on top of that, a lot of neutral people are lead to believe it just means "pedophile / incest supporter", or someone who genuinely thinks minor/adult 'relationships' are healthy and fine.

➛ It's worth a brief note that it didn't originally mean literally any of these things (as documented on the Anti-shipper and Anti-anti Fanlore pages), but you didn't come here for a history lesson.

I've also seen the following behaviors from people who used being "proship" as a shield or justification for them:

Defending MAPs

Defending or participating in invasive RPF

Defending bigotry

Supporting real life incest

Doing "problematic shipping" with child characters played by actual minors

Making lust posts about characters played by child actors

Creating, consuming, or supporting uncomfortably realistic "lolicon"

Getting way too defensive against ANY criticism of a story, even when it's not framed in an aggressive, moralizing way.

And my favorite: Fucking harassing people for perceived "anti" views. -_-

I'm certainly not writing this with the intention of making all proshippers as a whole look bad, but I've had to come to terms with what that word has evolved into and what it means to people. It's gone out of my control despite how desperately I had wanted it to just mean what I think it should mean—what it did mean originally.

When one of my core identity labels can conjure up the image of any one of these things, especially when many of them are god awful, I feel a lot less comfortable using it for myself.

I use "anti-anti" comfortably enough because it doesn't refer to my potential stance on paraphilias, what ships I'm into, censorship or ""censorship"" (the bullshit right-wing boogie man version), or even simply the way fiction affects reality. It instead only refers to my stance against what antis stand for and what they do.

And we all know what they do.

I used to have this explained on my Carrd as a mere supplement to a long, long list of my specific beliefs regarding fiction vs. reality, kinks, and all that jazz. Then I realized how futile and silly it is to preemptively explain my entire moral compass on my literal central hub of Me-ness, because who am I really convincing of anything by having a BYF page that huge? It had a bunch of claims about what I believe, but no further essays linked that might back up how thoroughly I do believe those things. So it would end up just... kind of hollow.

So whenever I'm feeling spicy, I might just write more essays about various aspects of the discourse and keep those in a totally optional directory of sorts, probably still linked on my Carrd. I have a burning need to share my thoughts and writing with the world, but I certainly don't think someone needs to know all of that just to click Like on my art.

(Also some day I might make dedicated posts to each of the links I shared, but for now I just want some level of backup to my words in this post.)

[higgs-the-god]

I'm not even an anti or a proshipper. I'm just telling you proshippers do all the same shit you listed, you'd see it if you paid attention.I've seen a 13 year old attempt suicide because thousands of 🍖🌈 attacked them for tweeting an opinion that wasnt even directed at anyone and originally had 3 likes. I've seen proshippers with a psychopathic hatred for kids because they think they could *become* antis. Proship accounts themselves admit their side has a problem with harassment

Could you give some sources? I wouldn’t mind sharing some of my own myself.

I’m friends with a lot of other pros (self labeled or not) and sometimes talk to more, and yet I’ve only heard of pros being miserable because anything they say or do they could be called out for and harassed, whether it’s pro content or not.

Yet I stay away from antis, I stay in my own bubble and (on twit at least) don’t follow a lot of people just because I think they could be antis, my friends also do the same, and yet I still get harassed and bugged and insulted. Antis go out of their way to consume content they don’t like then shit on the creators for it.

Also. Maybe you’re just exaggerating but. A thousand pro shippers going after a teen? One teen? I have heavy doubts. Not saying it’s impossible but I really do doubt it. Yet I’ve seen antis very often harass fellow pros when we’re literally just trying to live life, even after some people completely leave the internet and don’t talk about their interests like that. Of your one teen I’ve seen close friends’ mental status decline heavily from being harassed and blamed and I’ve heard of other pros literally actually kill themselves because of it.

The hatred for kids thing; a lot of pros, somewhat me included have a.. distaste for younger people on the internet because 1) our blogs are usually very nsfw 2) and especially have pro content, which is terrible for children. We tag things, we warn, yet kids will intentionally ignore it and get hurt by our media, and it’s our fault. We have to protect ourselves and sometimes that includes having our blogs more than explicitly tell children to stay the hell away. This does not include going after them and targeting them.

There isn’t really a neutral ground with this, I’m gonna be honest. Maybe there’s a bit of a spectrum but you either accept that sometimes people are just fucked in the things they like (and they’re able to healthily explore that in fiction, like is recommended by many therapists and such) or you hate people for.. minding their business and just trying to get away from the harsh reality that is irl