#'gay sex would be less gay than what these two have going on' and its just one character being worried for the other's safety?

[canadianlucifer]

i'm begging some people to know they can ship things non-romantically, that two characters can be really good friends and nothing else, that qprs are a thing, and not everything has to be gay, please, sometimes a relationship is only platonic and nothing else

[felassan]

David Gaider on Zevran, under a cut for length:

"I was going to skip over Zevran, honestly, as I felt like I didn't have a lot to tell in the way of stories about him... but I know he still has some (ardent) fans. Plus, on reflection, I thought maybe I DO have a few things to say. 😅 Sooo we'll see how this goes. Zevran came along much later in the DAO process, as we were trying to round out the cast of party members. Alistair and Morrigan were well underway (as "main" characters, they were concepted very early) and I'd just started to consider who our Rogue followers might be when... things changed, a bit. See, BioWare had released a game not long beforehand called Jade Empire. It had included some same-sex options in its romances - not obscured like the way Juhani's "romance" had been hinted at in KotOR, but explicit. To this day, I have no idea who on the Jade Empire team was behind it, or why. More to the point, the same-sex options had received a lot of attention and praise - almost universal praise, in fact. In 2005, everyone was just pleasantly surprised. And I don't recall if I went to James and asked about it or if he came to me to suggest DAO should include it. The latter, I think."

"You might ask "Aren't you gay, Dave? Weren't you already pushing for this?" And the answer to that is, emphatically, "no, not at all". It might seem odd looking through the lens of 2024, but there was no talk of 'representation' or 'diversity'. Not at any level where we were aware of it, anyhow. Today, fans argue about how MUCH representation to include and whether it's done well enough... the idea that, less than twenty years ago, it being included *at all* was very much in doubt feels so far away. But, back then, I'd always assumed my private life and my work in games would never meet. So I think it was James who brought it up, because I remember being startled. Pleasantly so, of course. Now I had to look at our two rogues and figure out how this would apply. I sketched out the female of the two (who was taken on by Sheryl Chee) and then looked at the male - he who became Zevran. I'd been reading about the CIA and one thing that stuck with me was how they'd (allegedly) recruit gay men as assassins because they rarely had familial ties. Zevran wasn't going to be gay (bisexuality wasn't a question of representation, but a cost-benefit compromise) but that was the inspiration."

"Then there was the question of how "flamboyantly" I was writing this character, whether that might be too stereotypical? I don't remember how it arose, but I had too many "flamboyant" friends to do anything other than double down. This character was gonna be Zorro the goddamn Gay Blade, that's what. So that's how Zevran happened. Fun, a bit nihilistic, maybe a bit too overtly flirty for today's audience but very confidently *sexual*. Everything I'm not, so I'll admit it was an interesting exploration to dig down and find that voice somewhere inside. He was the anti-Alistair, and I needed that. Casting him was difficult. Caroline always tried to go for authentic accents, when we could, but for some reason this was getting us nowhere. I think back, and I suspect it's because I hadn't yet learned the lesson to not use terms in casting descriptions I thought were universal... but were not. What do I mean by that? Well, there was one write-up that said "drow elf". Now, I know what a drow elf is. It wasn't even important to the description, but the director saw the word "elf", and you know what we got back? A Keebler elf. Like a leprachaun, high and sweet and cutsie. Can you imagine?"

"In this case, I think it was the use of the word "assassin". Combine that with the sorts of roles many Hispanic actors in LA probably are asked to play, and all the auditions we were getting were 150% dark, mean, and gritty. 🫠 So we widened the casting call a bit, and this led us to Jon Curry. I knew Jon wasn't Hispanic, but what I wasn't prepared for when I flew down to meet the DAO actors was that he's this extremely tall, extremely Nordic looking dude who just happened to do the most amazing Antonio Banderas impression. Watching THAT man channel Zevran was... more than a bit surreal. 😅 And he had fun with it. As soon as we gave him the go ahead to play the fun and flirtiness to the hilt, that's exactly what he did. Over the few days where we found Zevran's voice, it totally supplied me with something I could hold in my head when I went back to Edmonton and finished writing him. Zevran was funny enough that the fans liked him. The only part of the reception I thought odd was the occasional comment by a male player who felt "tricked" into having sex with Zevran. "You mean... that part where he invites you to his tent for a sensual massage?" "Yes! I was expecting a massage!" "He literally says the massage is sensual." "Well he wasn't clear enough!" This is where I first came to the conclusion that a certain number of our players just don't know how to people. And that maybe an adjustment to the way we approached the messaging (or massaging lol) of romance was in order. If I could go back, would I change anything? Maybe I'd remind the systems team Zevran should really be able to pick a lock. And maybe not allow him to die. We had no idea we'd need to import these choices into the future - we kinda thought DAO was "one and done". Not so much, as it turned out. 😁"

[source thread]

David Gaider: "there's something to be said about how Zevran flirted and even had sex with you because he thought that's all he had to offer... not just you, but anyone. And when he realized you wanted something deeper, suddenly he was on unsteady ground and it truly unsettled him. It was fun to explore." [source]

User: "So David - besides loving the fact that the third image you picked is a gay sex scene - what happened in DA2(DAE - come on) with Zevrans design?" David Gaider: "Check the ALT text. It wasn’t a custom sculpt, so that’s as close as they could get it. Which… was not close." [source]

User: "Just to make sure I fully understand: the director (was it the voice director?) saw the word "elf" and thought you were looking for someone high, sweet, and cutesie?" David Gaider: "Yeah, this was from back before we managed VO in-house. The voice director in this case just didn’t have an association with “elf” like some familiar with fantasy would." [source]

[musicalmoritz]

It’s canon Mitsuba’s gay?

I’m gonna use this as an excuse to yap because Mitsuba’s queercoding is either weirdly downplayed by fans or used solely for BL shipping purposes so I want to talk about it through the lens of what it means for his character, role in the story, and relationship with Kou

Yes, Mitsuba is canonically gay

Things don’t have to be explicitly stated in order to be canon, subtext is a major part of media analysis. This is something a lot of fans miss which leads to a misunderstanding of the source material. I do have some credentials for this, I’ve taken two undergrad college literature classes in which the subject of queercoding did come up multiple times. Meaning analyzing queercoding has literally gone towards my degree so I feel like my opinion holds some weight (not as much as that of an actual English major but yk I assume I’ve had more education on it than the general TBHK fandom)

There are multiple ways to queercode a character, sometimes it can be as simple as feminizing a man or masculinizing a woman. Though that method might be a bit outdated nowadays with gender roles becoming less strict, it’s still worth keeping in mind when analyzing queer characters. Another way is through romantically colored scenes with characters of the same sex, or by having them hint at disinterest in the opposite sex. Mitsuba checks off all three of these boxes and then some

First off, Mitsuba is attracted to men. This is made extremely obvious through his relationship with Kou but I’m gonna explain it anyways because unfortunately I’ve seen a lot of fans say they’re just platonic

Mitsuba and Kou went on a date. When this is brought up, fans typically jump to the excuse of “but Kou said it wasn’t a date,” which is where my American Lit class is going to come in handy. One of the major things we learned is that authors have to understand that everything they write has some sort of real world connotation. If you write a scene with a doctor, you have to understand that your readers already have preconceived notions of what doctors represent. You can choose to either lean into that or subvert it, but you have to be aware that as soon as a doctor enters the scene, readers have already made assumptions about that character

The word “date” is clearly being used in a romantic context here. When Kou texts his friends and brother about it, they all assume he’s talking about a romantic date. While in the actual context of the scene, Mitsuba and Kou aren’t quite ready to use such a strong label yet, the romantic wording here is still very intentional. AidaIro would not have labeled this moment as a date if they didn’t want readers to view it in a romantic light, because they understand that their readers are going to associate dates with romance. Japanese censorship is really strict, it’s hard to publish stories with explicitly queer characters unless the series is labeled as a BL or GL. And so Japanese manga writers often have to find roundabout ways to express that characters are gay without outright stating it- such as suggesting that they’re going on a date with a character of the same sex

In the printed volume for Vol.20, there’s an editor’s note that mentions that when Kou and Mitsuba are making plans to hang out at the school festival, it holds a romantic implication for the Japanese audience. Cultural differences are important to keep in mind, to western fans this scene might not raise any eyebrows but for its primary audience, it is confirmation that Mitsuba and Kou are romantic. I also find it interesting that the editor felt this context was important enough to warrant clarification

And frankly, their relationship doesn’t make a lot of sense if it’s solely platonic. Male friendship is something TBHK writes very realistically, the male characters aren’t as touchy-feely with their friends as they are with their female love interests. Yokoo and Satou don’t directly ask Kou how he’s feeling when they notice he’s upset, instead they give him a task to distract him- similar to how men in real life cheer their friends up through quality time rather than talking through their emotions like women do (not every man ofc but a good majority of them). When Teru is down, Akane doesn’t hold him and reassure him the way he does with Aoi. There are no grand declarations of ultimate “friendship” the way you see in fan servicy series like Haikyuu. Instead, he used his and Teru’s rivalry to indirectly motivate him to get his head back in the game. When Hanako is sad, Kou cheers him up by making donuts for him and then giving them to Nene so she can pretend she’s the one who made them. This is a very healthy portrayal of male friendship, and Mitsuba and Kou are nothing like this

Mitsuba and Kou both cry and vent to each other multiple times (the Mitsuba Arc, the Picture Perfect Arc, the Nightlife Arc), and instead of comforting each other indirectly they do things like offering to die for each other. You would never see Akane offer to die to make Teru feel better, nor would you Aoi and Nene or Kou and Hanako. It stands out so much from other friendships in the series, even Kou’s friendships with other characters. That is a conscious writing decision, AidaIro make a point to show Mitsuba as an exception for Kou. It’s worth noting that in the same chapter where Yokoo and Satou cheer Kou up indirectly, Mitsuba attempts to directly have him talk about his feelings

They’re also incredibly possessive over one another, in a way friends usually aren’t. When Kou was in the Red House, he was shown his greatest desires, and Mitsuba appeared in one of these. Kou said he knew Mitsuba would appear, which is interesting because at that point he had already picked up on the house showing him what he wanted. But what does he want? He wants Mitsuba to rely on him entirely, to be completely useless without him. He wants Mitsuba to be “no good without him,” to need him so badly that he begs him to die so they can be together. I’m not exaggerating, these are lines pulled straight from the chapter (paraphrased but still). Later on in the Nightlife arc, Kou breaks down when he discovers Mitsuba has been relying on Tsukasa for life-saving help. As for Mitsuba, he wants to die by Kou’s hands. He says it wouldn’t be satisfying if anyone else killed him, and that he would be happy if Kou were to be the last person he spent time with before he died. He tries to trap Kou in a picture perfect world just like Hanako does with Nene, because he wants to live a normal life with him. It’s also shown in one of the extras that Mitsuba cries when Kou ignores him

They’re also drawn very romantically, again we don’t see Teru and Akane this intimate with one another unless they’re fighting. We especially don’t see Kou this intimate with anyone other than Mitsuba, and while Mitsuba is sometimes clingy with Tsukasa we certainly never see him posed romantically with a woman. This comes back to authorial intent and real world connotations, AidaIro know that male friends aren’t typically this close, and therefore casual affection like this will be interpreted in a romantic light. We see them hold hands/wrists multiple times too, Kou gives Mitsuba a piggyback ride in one scene, and in ASHK they had a classic “pinned against the wall” page

I’ll also mention the AUs, because those indicate a lot about the characters as well. In Hanako-Kun of the Opera, Kou poisoned Mitsuba so he could take him away from the opera house and protect him from Tsukasa. He basically kidnapped him. He also stayed with Mitsuba at the opera house for a seemingly long period of time despite hating opera. Aaaaand they’re childhood best friends in this au and Kou took care of Mitsuba while he was sick

Then there’s the Ghost Hotel, where Kou is a werewolf who takes bites out of mummy Mitsuba during full moons. Despite this, the two appear to be friends and Mitsuba helps Kou out around the kitchen. Cannibalism is consistently tied to romance throughout TBHK, most notably with Hakubo and Sumire but other romantic pairings have cannibalistic moments or official arts. During the zombie mokke chapter, Nene panicked when Akane tries to eat her because she assumed it would put her in a love triangle with Aoi. So yeah, cannibalism in TBHK is directly tied to romance and we see that with Mitsukou both in canon and in this au. Speaking of which, I’m not even gonna get into the symbolism of Kou holding a heart out to Mitsuba. Connect the dots for yourselves

Now that we’ve got Mitsukou out of the way, let’s talk about Mitsuba’s disinterest in women

Remember how I said one of the ways queercoding is done is by having a character hint at disinterest in the opposite sex? Yeah, very rarely are we going to see a queercoded male character outright say “I have no attraction to women.” Instead they say they just never saw the appeal in dating, or that they never had time to settle down. In more obvious cases, we have scenes like Reiner from AOT joking that Ymir isn’t all that into guys

I couldn’t find the second scene but there are TWO extras where the subject of Mitsuba’s disinterest in women comes up. C’mon guys I’m trying not to be mean here but you have to be blind, oblivious, or in denial to not pick up on that. Whyyyyy would they mention Mitsuba not having a crush on any girls twice if it weren’t to suggest something about his preference?? Coupled with his appearance (which I’ll get to later) and relationship with Kou, these scenes carry a lot of weight. Even if those other aspects weren’t included, scenes like this would still indicate he has no interest in women (which would make him gay or aroace, though due to his relationship with Kou the aroace thing is kind of ruled out)

Compare this to a scene where Mitsuba thinks he’s being asked out by a man. He doesn’t say “hmmm nope no guys, I’m cuter than all of them~” he specifically says “I’m not interested in guys with lame earrings.” The way this is worded implies that Mitsuba is discussing a type, though it’s v much a comedic scene and we know from everything else that he absolutely does like guys with lame earrings, it’s still worded in a way that makes him appear queer. If he were straight, they would have had him say he’s not interested in guys at all (like Dazai from Bungou Stray Dogs, John Watson from BBC Sherlock, Finn Hudson from Glee, idk there are a lot of male characters that are explicit straight sorry for the crazy random list). Also note how he teases Kou about it, he knows that Kou is fond of him and doesn’t hesitate to use that against him (like when he was comforting him during the Nightlife arc)

They don’t go overboard with Mitsuba’s disinterest in women because, well, that’s not really necessary. Two scenes is already a lot, and he doesn’t have any romantic relationships with women in canon (even as a crush/a joke scene). It’s rare for TBHK characters to have absolutely no scenes expressing interest in the opposite sex, since the series is partially a romance. But Mitsuba consistently only ever shows interest in one man, and when girls are brought up he’s quick to brush it off. His mom did think Nene was his girlfriend when they met, but this was depicted as a very awkward and comedic scene. Because the premise of Mitsuba having a girlfriend is objectively hilarious

(Due to Sousuke’s young age it’s reasonable to assume he wasn’t out to his mom yet, he’s around the age where most kids are closeted. It’s even possible that Sousuke hadn’t come to terms with his sexuality yet, though it’s still a prevalent part of both his character and No.3’s)

Now let’s move onto appearances. I want to give a quick disclaimer, not all gay men are feminine and not all feminine men are gay. Androgyny is also very common in anime and doesn’t automatically mean a character is gay, but there are cases when it’s used for queercoding. Mitsuba is one of these cases

Mitsuba is a very feminine character, this is addressed as soon as he shows up in the manga. He was bullied for his appearance (and personality), but unlike his personality he never tried to change his feminine appearance. He kept his hair long, continues to wear scarves and cardigans and earrings. No.3 wears these things as well, and I would argue has a more feminine personality since he seems to be more open about his emotions and idk. I struggle to categorize feminine and masculine traits because imo that’s subjective but there are things society deems feminine vs. masculine. The problem is that I really dislike the whole “men are strong and women are emotional” thing but ehhhh I guess I have to talk about it for this. Hmph. But yeah although Mitsuba isn’t exactly the biggest sweetheart ever, he does act somewhat feminine compared to the other male characters (as I’ve said he’s p much the only man in the series who attempts to work through emotional conflicts directly)

Once again we circle back to intent, AidaIro know that a male character dressed in pink with pink eyes and long pink hair is going to raise some eyebrows. Even by androgynous anime standards, it’s a bit much. And good for him, although not all gay men are feminine, some are and that’s also fine. I can’t speak on how well he represents feminine gay men because I’m a lesbian but he does dress similar to some of the feminine gay men I’ve known irl (or slightly less feminine in some cases…I knew this one dude in high school who used to wear corsets to class and he was so badass I hope he’s doing well)

I could get into how Kou is a bit feminized too with the whole housework thing but this ain’t abt him. I will say that Kou is still a very masculine character but despite this his character is feminized in some ways compared to the other men. I’m not really here to discuss whether that’s good or bad, I’m just stating the evidence as it is, you can make your own conclusions as to how you feel about it

So how does being queer impact Mitsuba’s character arc?

When I get around to writing my analyses of all the TBHK characters I WILL be talking more in depth about the queer allegories with Mitsuba’s character but for now I’ll give ya’ll a quick summary. Supernatural characters have been used for years to represent queerness, the same could be said for villains and any character trope that represents a feeling of “otherness.” Sometimes it’s more broad like X-Men, where the superpowered characters are used to represent all types of minorities (though I believe X-Men is more closely tied to race, there are rampant queer themes as well). Then there’s books like Interview with the Vampire that get more specific with it, where Louis denying his “true nature” as a vampire is used as an allegory for him denying his queerness. Well I’m here to tell you that Mitsuba and Louis de Pointe du Lac are in the same boat

Mitsuba differs from the other supernaturals because he desperately tries to hold on to feelings of normalcy. He wants to be a normal human and live a normal human life. He doesn’t want to be othered, to be outcasted from society for something he can’t control. We don’t see Hanako, Tsuchigomori, Mei, or any of the other supernatural characters struggle with this. You could argue that Akane does but his situation is more related to learning to empathize with others than any internal battles within himself. Hanako may have moments of wishing him and Nene could have something more, but that’s more about romance than his identity.

This desire to be “normal” is unique to Mitsuba’s character, and it’s a very queer desire. Being an angsty teenager who hasn’t fully accepted themself yet and hasn’t realized that being queer is not only normal, but a beautiful experience. It’s also so interesting to me that as he’s trying so hard to be normal, it creates a push and pull between him and Kou. He wants to be normal for Kou but he also feels that he’s hurting Kou just by existing, that this could only end bad for him. Oh the inherent guilt of having your first gay crush and feeling like you're corrupting them hist for pining from afar

So, can you ship him with women? Technically you can do anything, shipping isn’t illegal and we all have free will. Should you ship him with women is more subjective, I personally think no!! Queerness is not just a sexuality, it’s an identity that deeply impacts who you are as a person. It shapes your experiences and your view of yourself, and in an allegorical way it has certainly done this for Mitsuba. Yes, bi people are queer as well and this is still true for them, but bisexuality is not Mitsuba’s experience. Mono-attraction exists and that specification is very important to gay men and lesbians. For some people sexuality is fluid and that’s beautiful, but it doesn’t work that way for everyone

Some queer fans don’t care if gay characters are shipped with members of the opposite sex, and they’re entitled to their own opinions. It makes me immensely uncomfortable tho, so please block me if you ship Mitsuba with women. That goes for any ships between canon gay/lesbian characters and the opposite sex. I respect people’s right to have opinions but that doesn’t mean I have to like the opinions themselves, and I don’t have to engage with anything that makes me uneasy. That goes for all of you btw, never let people convince you that you have to put up with shit you hate on the internet lmao, this is not real life babes. Block and move on

TL;DR

Mitsuba is too gay to function

[unfortunate17]

i agree with you about being frustrated with how often this fandom has top/bottom discussions but its a pretty common talking point in most fandoms so YR isn’t special for that

No I totally agree with you that it’s a common topic of discussion in a lot of fandoms, but there’s a particular way we have it in this fandom that really grinds my gears.

And don’t get me wrong, I don’t care if you hc Wilmon to be vers or if you think Wille tops or Simon tops or whatever - it’s the justification and reasoning that I’m seeing behind these headcanons that I find deeply irritating and, frankly, insulting and kind of homophobic.

This is going to get long so forgive me.

1. I’ve seen so many posts talk about how the show is “brave” and “subversive” by having Wille go down on Simon or potentially bottom, but like - what the hell are we even talking about? In what world is it subversive to show a queer character having queer sex?? What are we subverting?? This show has never shown us anything with its intimate scenes other than two guys that are deeply in love and really horny for eachother and I hate that we keep bringing this shit up!!!

2. I’ve also seen people say that it was very important for us to see Wille moving to go down on Simon in the tape in S1 because it’s “more damning evidence that he’s queer” and otherwise Wille could’ve just said he was horny and desperate but he was actually imagining he was with a girl in his denial statement. But be so fucking forreal, in what world is that a thing he could argue in an official statement to the press? He’d be the laughing stock of the world.

Wilhelm isn’t more or less gay because he went down on Simon vs the other way around. He’d still be having queer sex because he’s having sex with another guy. Arguing that the framing here is for anything other than a plot device so Wille’s face wouldn’t be visible to set up the denial is actually kind of ridiculous.

As someone very smart on here said, “I’m sorry that you apparently have a tier list of sex acts ranging from “kinda straight” to “Gaylord” 😭😭 get well soon, couldn’t be me.”

Imagine for one second Simon was the one giving Wille head? Would you have criticized the show for that?? And WHY?!

3. Next: saying that Wilmon’s relationship is “equal” because you think they’re vers is…a take and a half lmao. What the fuck does being vers have to do with a relationship being equal?? Why are we assigning arbitrary hierarchies to sexual preferences??? Why are we implying that topping and bottoming are somehow not equal and you have to carefully balance both, when, ideally, it’s just whatever the fuck everyone is into???

Wille isn’t selfish for topping. Simon isn’t sacrificing anything by bottoming. They’re fucking because they’re in love and they want to 😭

TLDR: Wille doesn’t suck Simon’s dick for class liberation. Simon riding Wille isn’t a commentary on how he’s “girl-coded.” It’s just sex, leave them alone to have a good time and stop assigning agendas to queer sex.

[transforming]

Dane's Unexpected Vacation

Here's a little something I put together, as a commission for @tf-lover, who's been such an amazing friend of mine in the TF community, with a shoutout to his amazing work and his collaborations with @mrwavellswaps! Enjoy!

-----

It had been a particularly long week for Dane De Bruin. 

It was nearly a year ago when his life changed forever, from being a skinny young teacher who was tired of his life and having to deal with annoying teenagers, to a bona fide magical hunk, and now having a boyfriend in the form of the marvelous Mr Wavell. That was a whirlwind, magic carpet ride of a journey all on its own, not only becoming such a stud but also discovering he probably had powers of his own. Dane worked and trained with Mr Wavell, in the real world and in their home in the pocket dimension, to figure out what magic he has deep within him, as he channeled Wavell’s powers to help others find true happiness and fulfill their hidden desires.

He knew that loads of guys had a kink for soft, squishy pecs like his, and as much as he could make money appear from the snap of his fingers, he also thought about the thousands of pounds he could earn just from showing off his man-tits. That said, he began venturing into social media, posting at least once a week on Instagram for thirsty fans who’d be willing to pay him anything to support him, and even send him cute drawings that would especially highlight his knockers. It got a kick out of him, and in a way, he was helping people feel satisfied and fulfilled, and he was feeling great about that.

On top of all that, most recently he had been helping out Mr Wavell collect testimonials on the Homo Bomb he had dropped on the town of Bellmare, dividing up their research across the town’s residents. It was quite fascinating to see how the magical bomb changed the townspeople, varying from the simple change of straight men turning gay, already gay men turning into their fantasies or crushes, to the rare anomalies of women becoming men. The beach town was definitely a notable case study for the books, and it was worth examining on how happy people could be with the help of sudden magic being dropped upon them, all thanks to his boyfriend.

-----

However, in the past few days, Dane started to notice that he was getting quite tired, and it threw off everything he had been doing. He felt less motivated to go to the gym, and without a nice enough pump to show off, he delayed posting anything new on Instagram. Even channeling Wavell’s magic for his own use has been more strenuous than normal, and with Wavell busy collecting his side of testimonies from Bellmare, they haven’t had much time to themselves: whether it was to have a bit of fun in the bedroom, to work on strengthening Dane’s magical abilities, or simply to have lunch together.  It was similar to the draining feeling he experienced long before when he was a teacher, dealing with these pesky kids who didn’t listen to him, or dealing with an admin that ignored his needs for support in the classroom – except that he was drained from everything that he enjoyed doing as Dane. 

As much as he hated to admit it, Dane knew he was being stretched thin, and that he was on the verge of majorly burning out. He was in desperate need of a break. One day, when he finally mustered up enough courage, he eventually sat down with his boyfriend.

“Wavell, babe, I need to talk to you,” Dane said, looking forlorn and exhausted.

Wavell walked over from the kitchen with two glasses of red wine in his hand, handing one to his lover. “What is it, Dane?” he asked as they both sat down.

Dane sighed. “It’s been so amazing spending time with and falling in love with you babe. I’ve loved every moment we’ve spent together, and honestly, I wouldn’t trade it for anything else. The magic, our relationship and getting to channel your magic, the sex…” Dane chuckled a bit. “Even this Homo Bomb has been crazy interesting to observe.”

Wavell smiled and wrapped his arm around Dane’s waist as he took a sip of his pinot. “And I love you so much, baby. I still can’t believe you’re my boyfriend after all this time. How long has it been? What, nearly ten months since I made you into Dane?”

“Yeah, just about.” Dane smiled, as he took a sip of his wine. “I love you too, babe. Like I said, everything we’ve done together has made me feel so much happier, and life feels so worthwhile with you…” Dane paused, hesitating for a moment, but enough for Wavell to notice.

“I can sense a ‘but’ coming in,” Wavell said, kissing Dane’s cheek. “Dane, don’t worry, you know you can always tell me anything.”

Dane sighed once more, as he slumped his shoulders and finished his glass of wine in one gulp. “I can’t exactly pinpoint why, but I’m just feeling really drained. I’ve noticed it in the little things. Not feeling enough hype to work out, I don’t feel as strong as I know I could be after all our training and after using your powers, and in general I just feel a bit tired.”

Wavell looked down, thinking about it for a moment. In his experience, he knew that magic was enough to keep one energetic and dynamic, but he’d also heard enough stories of other warlocks and possessors of magic to know that not getting enough rest and relaxation could completely destroy their magic and revert them back to what they used to be, or even worse, drain them out of existence. A few of his own friends had disappeared in the past. He pulled Dane close, kissed him softly, and let him rest his head on his lap, 

“You definitely need some R&R, Dane,” Wavell replied, smiling sweetly as he caressed Dane’s hair. “Your powers are still relatively new, and I don’t want to see you completely drained out when you’re still growing them to their full potential.”

Dane felt tears well up in his eyes, and after a deep breath, he felt them stream down his cheeks. “I know, babe. I just�� I didn’t wanna let you down.” Dane sniffled, while Wavell rubbed his V-tapered back, comforting him.

“You’ll never let me down, babe. Never. But you shouldn’t ever be ashamed to tell me you’re tired, or to ask for a break when you need one.” Wavell wiped the tears from Dane’s cheeks, as he ran his hand down Dane’s arm to calm him. 

Wavell smirked as he lifted Dane’s head off his lap and embraced him. “You deserve this break. And luckily, I know just the guy to help you out.” 

Dane raised an eyebrow. “Who is this guy?”

Wavell chuckled. “His name’s Drew, and he runs this new resort where magicians like us can go to relax. It’s a new venture he’s exploring, an idea that came to him when he was taking a break of his own after running Transformation College years ago.”

Dane’s eyes widened in surprise. ‘The guy who created Transformation College is back?’, he thought. “I thought he’d disappeared long ago. He’s around again?”

Wavell nodded. “Yep, he’s back, and he’s hoping, since he’s running a resort, he can take it a bit easier than last time. The college really burnt him out,” he chuckled, “but I think Drew’s Transformational Resort could benefit you. Plus, knowing him well, he’ll cover all your expenses.”

Dane smiled, and kissed his lover with a renewed passion. “I fucking love you Wavell.”

“And I love you more, Dane. You deserve a break, and don’t worry about the Homo Bomb testimonies, I can cover that. For now, all you need to do is relax, yeah?” Wavell smiled brightly. The couple got up and headed towards the front door. Holding hands, they stepped out of the house and towards a little tropical hut with a bamboo door on the eastern end of Wavell’s pocket dimension. “Here we are. Just straight through that door and you’ll be at the resort.”

As he held the doorknob, Dane looked into Wavell’s eyes one last time and held his hand. “I’m gonna miss you. I wish you could come with me,” his voice quivered as he said that to his lover.

“I’m gonna miss you too, babe. But I know if I’m gonna be there, you might not be able to recuperate fully, considering we still don’t know what your magical powers are, if you have any. Plus, I don’t know if we’d even be able to relax at all with how much sex we’d have,” Wavell chuckled. He squeezed Dane’s hand once more, kissing him softly, before Dane opened the door and entered through.

-----

Once he was fully through, he was quickly blinded by a bright white light. Dane closed his eyes tightly, then when he opened them again, he found himself on the shore of a pristine white beach, on a secluded island completely surrounded by miles and miles of ocean. He could feel the water wade between toes, and the sand stick to his soles, as he looked around, the door to Wavell’s dimension nowhere to be seen. He then noticed that he was shirtless and just wearing a pair of beach shorts, which surprised him. “Woah, this is trippy,” he muttered to himself as he walked off the beach onto the grass further in, seeing a collection of small beachside villas, two larger buildings, and what appeared to be a lobby, where a young, shirtless and handsome stud stood behind a desk, holding a small flower in hand.

Dane walked over to the desk, but before he could speak, the young hunk turned and smiled. “Dane De Bruin?” he asked.

Dane stepped back. “H-how did you know?”

The handsome stud, who looked around college age, smirked. “Wavell told me everything before you arrived.” Dane chuckled, Wavell was always one step ahead of him. “I’m Drew, by the way,” the himbo-looking stud said, reaching out his hand for Dane to shake.

Dane reciprocated the handshake. “Pleasure to meet you, Drew. Did Wavell already tell you why I’m here?” he replied. Drew simply nodded, and quickly turned around to grab a passion fruit tequila welcome cocktail for Dane, handing it to him.

“We offer a lot of services, but our main purpose here at Drew’s Transformational Resort is magical rejuvenation, helping magicians such as yourself regain control over your powers, and come back feeling relaxed and reborn,” Drew smirked naughtily as he spoke. Luckily, Dane didn’t notice. Drew led Dane down a small, rustic path through the resort, passing by the restaurant and then the spa, all of it looked amazing and luxurious. They stopped at a villa, and Drew opened the door. It was a simple space, but a beautiful one too: a king-sized bed with an extremely soft coconut mattress that felt like sleeping on a cloud; an outdoor shower surrounded by a wall filled with orchid vines; a door that led to the back porch, which had its own swimming pool and jacuzzi; and further out, Dane’s own little cove, which was surrounded by coconut palms and hibiscus trees. It was all spectacularly beautiful.

“Wow,” Dane said, blown away by it all.

“I really worked hard on curating unique experiences for all my guests,” Drew replied, smiling as Dane walked around his villa and took it all in. “And first on the agenda for your Ultimate Relaxation and Rejuvenation package is a whole spa day.” 

Dane turned and beamed at Drew. “Lead the way then Drew. I’m so excited for this.”

Drew smiled back and handed Dane his key card for the villa, before he led the way back up the path to the spa. As he looked around, Dane noticed a staff member at the hotel that looked like Drew. Then another one that drove a buggy. And then another at the front desk of the spa. The Drew working at the spa chuckled. “Yep, this whole resort is run by me.”

Dane laughed, impressed. “That’s amazing. So you could basically clone yourself?”

Spa-Drew nodded as he took things from Reception-Drew, leading Dane into a massage room. Dane quickly stripped out of his beach shorts and hopped onto the massage bed, while Spa-Drew placed a pair of AirPods into his ears, which began to play calming jazz music, canceling out all the noise and letting Dane doze off to sleep as Spa-Drew got to work. Once he knew that Dane was completely asleep, thanks to the binaural beats he added to keep Dane asleep in a deep trance, Drew took out a magical kit of essential oils, ointments, scrubs and tools. He smirked, and opened the bottle of plumeria essential oil.

Rubbing some between his hands, Drew began massaging Dane, kneading his back muscles and defining them even more till they were shredded. Reaching his shoulders, Drew built up Dane’s traps, and broadened his shoulders just a bit, his hands defining Dane’s delts, then worked his way down his arms and sculpting them like clay, defining them even further till they looked more youthful and strong. As Drew rubbed the oil all over Dane through the massage, a golden sun-kissed tan began to seep across Dane’s body, washing out his pale white skin until it looked like he spent a lot of time at the beach, and all his body hair receded, leaving him smooth and supple like a baby.

Drew smirked as he peeled off the towel that covered Dane’s ass. Lathering his cheeks up with more oil, he massaged them and rounded them up till they were bubbly yet firm with muscle. Finishing up the backside, Drew knuckled down on Dane’s thighs, shaping them till they were like well-defined tree trunks, and softly pressed on his calves till they gained a more aesthetic diamond shape. Upon reaching his feet, Drew squeezed every part –stretching Dane’s toes, knuckling his soles and pressing his ankles, till Dane’s feet shrunk by just a bit to accommodate his now slightly shorter stature.

Drew took a good look at Dane’s backside before turning him over, lifting Dane up with ease as if he were a paper doll. Once Dane was fully turned around, Drew chuckled as he continued pouring more oil all over Dane’s body. Fondling Dane’s pecs, Drew squeezed the soft, supple man-tits till the hairs receded and the pecs were more sculpted and firm with muscle, then worked down on his abs and sculpted each one till the ridges were sharply defined and looked like a washboard. Since the legs were technically done, Drew simply ran his oiled-up hands over the quads and shins, which caused any remaining leg hairs to completely disappear, then lifted up Dane’s arms to pour a strong, musky oil into it, rubbing it into his pits until the rest of his body began emanating the same intense smell.

Dane’s body was completely transformed, from looking like a big muscular Daddy to a young bodybuilder physique, but Drew wasn’t quite done yet. He smirked as he lifted the still-sleeping Dane across the room to a parlor chair, then grabbing the rest of his tools. First things first, Drew applied some shaving cream onto Dane’s face, massaging it deep into his jaw, then pulled out a razor and began shaving off all of Dane’s stubble and precious mustache. No stubble or facial hair was left behind, as Drew left Dane’s face squeaky clean like a baby. Grabbing the aftershave, he mixed it with some of the plumeria oil and massaged it into Dane’s face. It began to reshape, as his skin began to pull tighter as it regained its youth, pulling Dane back a few years in appearance till it looked like he was in his mid-20s, but the aftershave prevented him from growing any facial hair again. 

As he kept up his work, Drew massaged the upper part of Dane’s face, the golden tan creeping up and washing his face, as Drew reshaped Dane’s eyes to have a more almond-like, distinctly Asian shape, while plucking out his eyebrows to define them further and make them look less bushy. Carefully, Drew opened Dane’s eyes and popped in a pair of dark brown, permanent contacts, and pierced Dane’s ears with simple silver diamond studs, making him look even more youthful. Finally, Drew pulled out a pair of scissors, a shaver and a comb, and cut off Dane’s luscious locks till his hair was shorter, with tapered fades on the sides, like a jock’s type of haircut, then topped it off by rubbing some coconut oil into hi hair until Dane’s rich brown waves turned jet black and straight. Dane was too deep in slumber to notice anything amiss, or even feel what was going on, he just felt very relaxed.

Once it was all finished, within just an hour of Dane’s arrival at the resort, Spa-Drew handed Dane over to one of the other Drews, who took him back to his villa, and dressed him up in a tank top, gym shorts and sneakers, and pulled out the AirPods. The magic of the massage and the oils Drew used had definitely rejuvenated him, and had helped rebuild the strength of his magical powers, but gave him a completely new appearance.

It was around sunset when Dane finally woke up, feeling plenty rested after having slept for most of the day. He smiled. “Fuck me, that –” Dane shut his mouth. His voice. It sounded different. Younger, for sure, but it wasn’t the deep, gravelly voice he knew to be his own. He looked down and saw a fitter, more shredded body than his, and his eyes widened. He rushed over to the mirror, and finally saw what had happened – he looked nothing like how he came in – he now had the appearance of a young Asian jock.

“Do you like the new look?” Drew said, leaning against the doorframe leading to the cove. “Enjoy your vacation, Dane. Just relax, get away from it all, and enjoy the new body – it’s yours until you get bored of it!” Drew chuckled as he ran off, leaving Dane stunned.

How will he explain this to Wavell when he goes back?

-----

I hope you all enjoyed this story!

Speaking of commissions, I will be opening up commissions to everyone very soon - keep your eyes peeled for a detailed post on it!

You can also tip me over on ko-fi, if you can't or don't want to commission! You don't have to tip me, but any support is always welcome.

[goshdangronpa]

Where to begin in sharing my thoughts on Class of '09: The Flip Side ...

Well, how about the positives? Everything I've seen is so negative, and trust me, I have thoughts. But I enjoyed quite a lot of it, and I wanna do my part to balance out the discourse. So, here's a list.

Jecka makes for an interesting protagonist compared to Nicole. She's far more emotional - I swear, she breaks down crying in every route, which is genuinely disconcerting. She's also way less savvy. I'm not fond of how overwhelmingly negative these endings are (more on that in another post), but it at least makes sense. Nicole gets the upper hand in several endings from the previous two games because she's usually cunning enough to avoid potential problems, manipulate her way out of them, and/or get people in serious trouble. Jecka may be a bit of a bitch (and I love her for it!), but as she says in one ending, she kinda needs Nicole. Putting her in the protag role isn't just subbing her in for Nicole. Flip Side explores how things would go for someone with slightly more conscience and way less guile.

Jecka's so goddamn gay, oh my god. Wanting to look for a "goth work girlfriend" at Hot Topic. "I can afford holes, Imma buy me some hoes!" Kissing Ari! She says she only did the latter for attention, but girl ... girl. Someday she'll ask someone "Doesn't every girl think about sleeping with their gal pals?" and be shocked when that someone says no. (Tbh when I heard that one route would explore a previous game's route from Jecka's perspective, and when I saw the CG of the jeckari kiss on Tumblr, I created an entire plotline in my head that didn't come to fruition. Pity - it'd at least make for a good fanfic.)

"It's been seven seconds." The scenes based on this bit are some of the funniest in the whole series ("Why don't you magically gather some friends?"). Like something straight out of South Park. If the Co09 anime Kickstarter had reached the stretch goal of a full 25-minute episode, would this have been the script? I've heard people say that Flip Side doesn't feel like Class of '09, or that the dialogue isn't as good in this one, but this part, among others, works for me. "Can anyone do the math?" "... I thought this was health."

I'm a lifelong FYE patron who will drive 40-odd minutes to visit the only remaining store in my entire region. So for me especially, the entire FYE storyline was a ride. It reminded me of American Dad, where every episode turns something mundane into an elaborate conspiracy or wild adventure into its secret underbelly. It's awesome from beginning to ... well, not the end, but it's mostly awesome. And we get to hang out with Kelly! That's neat!

This is apparently my hottest take: the "foot whore" routes are not that bad. For starters, they're not presented in a way that fetishizes Jecka herself. You never see her feet, or see what she does with them. Yall can still find the suggestion of it gross if you want, but comparisons to Quentin Tarantino seem unwarranted! More importantly, the foot services enable the writers to explore topics of sex work while keeping the game light on actual sexual activity. It's rare to see such subject matter broached in a thing like this, yet we get to see how circumstances can pull desperate people into selling their bodies, and how swiftly and easily they can have their boundaries violated and their safety compromised by the customers they depend on. The increasing disruption of normal conversations by the text notifications of Jeffery's donations is a genuinely despairing plot device. Both endings are troubling for different reasons (again, that's for another post), but the game's got something to say in a way that, to me, is fairly mature yet distinctly Class of '09. (Credit to my partner for this observation, I'm so grateful I could play this with them.)

... Uh ... the music sting from the opening monologue bumps ... It sounds more Class of '17 than Class of '09, but it's still cool ...

Okay so I can't think of more, at least not right now. (EDIT: How did I forget the Hatman? That was cute!) Flip Side may be the most flawed game in the series, but it's still pretty good. At the very least, I don't think it's the shitshow other people are making it out to be ... though there is a smell. I'll go deeper on the negatives in other posts.

[fadelbison]

I really had to read with my own two eyes multiple times since this post had multiple people add on to it, bringing it back to my dash again and again, that the drama from Tharn and Phaya's past life did not feel dramatic at all. And somehow that detracts from taking the drama of the present as seriously as the show is taking it. This story is based on Thai folklore? The Naga and Garuda are eternal enemies. The love between a Naga and a Garuda is an insult to the literal cosmic order. Chalothon who was only trying to preserve the natural order has been wronged by their love. The natural order is also referenced several times but especially when the priest was like keep Phaya and Chalothon away from each other, they're destined to be enemies. Not meeting the show halfway to accepting this as part of your lens as an audience is frankly...an interesting choice to make. The next bit is pure conjecture on account of me not being Thai but I'm trying to relate to what The Sign is likely trying to do from my own understanding of Asian folklore and the way we use those stories to build new stories. What is there to get out of this show other than the big fuck you to 'natural order' of things that must be because of the way that they are. Why can't a Naga and Garuda be in love? This must be a concept that people explore under the general lens of forbidden love in Thailand (pure conjecture but also like I don't know how it can't be true). We all have our poorly explained versions of Forbidden Love gone bad; Romeo and Juliet, Ram Leela, Devdas would be some heterosexual stories of Forbidden Love that kind of hand waves around the forbidden part a little bit that I'm familiar with. Devdas (the story I'm most familiar with of the one's stated) and its myriad adaptations is a story about the absolute ways we hold on to class even as it brings about our own downfall.

It's a great pick for a queer adaptation because the reasons why the lovers couldn't be together was so made up and really came down to ONE person (Devdas' mother) who just couldn't let go of class even though everyone else was literally begging for the two to just be together because let me tell you none of you have met a poor little meow meow on the scale of Devdas.

The Sign is bringing the forbidden love between a Naga and Garuda as a parallel of the forbidden love between two men. Homosexuality outside of the legal sphere really does come down to an ideological difference as to what is natural vs not. Homosexuality goes against a natural order of reproduction. And this is true. Two men cannot reproduce, two women cannot reproduce with each other.

The challenge isn't to prove that they can, it's to prove that reproduction isn't the centerpoint of human life, that we have transcended the need for our life to be dictated by this 'natural' order because on principal our societies just aren't built along the paradigm of 'survival of the fittest' where the benchmark of species fitness is its ability to reproduce.

Thai shows including things that have come out of Idol Factory (that produces The Sign) are often socially engaged with LGBT rights within Thailand. Now that gay marriage is legal or on its way to be, I assume a move in the direction of bringing same sex relationships up to the same societal respect as straight relationships would be a natural direction that future screenwriters will go.

The Sign is trying very hard to take the question of homosexuality right to the heart of Thai culture and tradition and talk about it from that lens [this is less conjecture and more paraphrasing what Saint has said about the show in interviews] And I know that you all are capable of meeting a story halfway in respecting its desire to set up the stakes through references of allegorical story telling since y'all have been doing it with Last Twilight and Le Petit Prince. So I don't know even know why I had to make this post but: tl;dr: The stakes of the love between Tharn and Phaya and the forbidden nature of it is set before you even see much of the show just from the fact that Tharn is a Naga and Phaya is a Garuda and as a member of the audience you have to accept that the love between Naga and Garuda is a deviant form of love in Thai culture.

[a-court-of-moonlight-and-ire]

Alright, I took a quick nap and Ive decided that I wanna get the UTM reenactment over with as quickly as possible so Im reading chapter 42 and then I'll reward myself with some pain au chocolats and not thinking about this book for the rest of the day and watching the 2002 takarazuka flower troupe production of elisabeth instead. lets go

Chapter 42

here we fucking go with the illyrian wingspan-dicksize correlation, how would Amren even know that isnt she above sex or something. Honestly, I think Cassian would know wayyyyy more about that. on account of all the gay sex hes having i mean. I thought of that joke and then I realized that you could interpret it to mean that he knows about that because hes illyrian and has a dick, but I want to make it very clear that this is a gay sex joke

how come wings are so sensitive that just barely stroking them makes you moan and shudder but you can still fly with them in harsh winds with no issue. My headcanon is that wings arent actually that sensitive, Rhysand and Cassian are just weirdos with a specific kink

This conversation Feyre and Rhys are having about his wings is so weird, its like dirty and yet uncomfortably clinical

oh Rhysand is quicker than death just fucking kill me, im getting so angry again

Syphons are called 'Trichtersteine' ['funnel stones' or 'funnel gems'] in german which is more accurate to how we're actually told they work imo but it sounds pretty lame

Is it just me or is Rhysand being kinda weirdly paranoid rn. I mean granted, they did just get attacked with ash arrows so maybe hes actually doing a good job for once and Im just biased against him

Okay so we finally get some night court fae wearing white, but of course its not for moon symbolism its so they can blend in with the rock of the mountain because this series does nothing but disappoint me

The Hewn City actually sounds really cool, why couldnt this have been the secret city where we spend most of our time, you couldve made it a whole thing about Feyre healing from her trauma UTM through like, exposure therapy or something idk. That wouldve been neat and dramatic, her healing from her UTM trauma in the place that inspired it with the person that inflicted it. I mean, maybe that would be less healthy and even more controversial than Feysand already is but then you could atleast lean into the dark romance of it

I mightve said this already but you knowwww sjm is NOT a painter and consulted ZERO painters because Ive never heard of anyone think about creating art the way feyre does

and Mor is wearing red AGAIN why would you make this a trigger for Feyre just go back and edit it out its not like it matters

God, the description of her outfit is so deeply discomfortingl like it literally is exactly what she wore while she was being drugged assaulted but atleast they left the bodypaint out this time

"[Keir] looked at my face, then my body. I had thought that he would stare and drool greedily but... there was nothing. No emotion. Just ice cold. Shaking internally, - from anger and revulsion - I followed Mor." Im sorry, is she mad that Keir doesnt find her hot????

Theres something uncomfortable about Feyre referring to Rhysand as 'Mor's Lord' especially when we just had a whole paragraph describing her as a proud and empowered queen

"Usually, one Syphon was enough for an Illyrian to to able to steer his urge to kill down the right path." what???

Now shes describing Azriel as dark and beautiful as death and oughhhhhh i knoww im the only who cares about this and its for a pretty stupid reason but I care a lot and it makes me very angry

Feyre referring to a 19 year old Mor as 'barely more than a child' is weirdddddd

of COURSE hes wearing a black tunic for this, I cant believe this is the guy that the fandom has designated the fashion lover when he has two (2) outfits

Feyre describing Rhysand as sooooo powerful and beautiful with a face of nightmares and dreams makes me want to vomit, but more importantly, it makes me yearn to rewatch the 1996 takarazuka star troupe production of Elisabeth with Asaji Saki as Death who unirionically fits all of Feyres descriptors 1000 times better

Not Rhysand using Feyres Cursebreaker title while hes thoroughly humiliating her

Now Feyre is calling him a god, bro youre not gonna be able to have sex if you jack him off this hard hes gonna be all sore

Imagine being a hewn city noble and you all get together because your high lord wants something from you and youre kinda scared because hes the worst, and then you just have to watch him finger some random lady. and you cant leave because then he'll just kill you

I dont like that this is framed as empowering to Feyre, i think its one thing to write a female character who sexualises herself in order to empower herself but the fact that Feyre is doing this at the behest of Rhys automatically renders it non-empowering to me. Like yeah, she obviously consented to this but it wasnt her idea but this was not her idea and this is not something she usually does, the only times shes been sexualized like this is because it was part of some plan that Rhysand came up with

"[Keir] apparently clung to the power. But Rhys was the power." i hate that that sentence made me think of Keir/Rhysand as a ship why am I so goddamn yaoi-brained. And yeah, i know theyre related but according to Rhys himself, he and Mor are only cousins in the most distant sense, so. Man, that would make the IC dynamics so much more fucked up but also so much funnier

Theyre trying so hard to make this hot n sexy but its just so unappealing and dragged out. Granted, sorry if this is TMI, but I did just jerk off so Im all out of horniness for the next little while so maybe I just dont like this because Im not in the mood but idk. theres something so annoying about this, i think its how over-the-top and artificial Rhysands hotness feels, not to mention the fact that he is absolutely not my type

Imagine being Keir rn, just trying to do your job and tell your high lord everything that he needs to know, meanwhile his high lord is sitting in front of him fondling his new sex slave and you just have to keep a straight face. i mean, he sucks ass so i guess he deserves it but man

Presented to you with no further comment: "My breasts became heavy and full, longing, desiring, just like my crotch."

goddamnit, Rhysand just said that he put Feyre on his leash and then Keir made a kinda slutshame-y remark about her clothes and then I thought Rhys was like "maybe I'll put you on a leash too" but it was Feyre who said that. another loss for big gay incest

"He liked this as little as I did" uhhhhh no offense girlie but you actually seem to be having a pretty great time rn

I dont even know what to say about this part where Feyre is like, detaching herself from her thoughts that are calling her a traitor a liar and a whore ?? I think thats whats happening here?? Like, its trying so hard to be sexy but its invoking the imagery of Feyre's (and even Rhysand's) trauma and its just very strange

It took Rhys a fucking eternity to actually touch her pussy

What if Keir developed a voyerism kink because of this. would that be fucked up or what

Its so weird how Feyre thinks about how maybe Rhysand doesnt like sex or being desirable anymore because of amarantha and that certainly sounds like a trauma response he should have but instead it just never matters

"I had been tortured and tormented but my pain was nothing compared to his." YOU DIED

Oh man I cant believe I completely forgot about the absolutely iconic part where Rhysand gets so mad Keir for calling the woman he introduced as a whore a whore that he telepathically breaks his hand about it

what was the point of doing that, Feyre didnt even seem to like it that much

[waitmyturtles]

THE MORNING AFTER: ONLY FRIENDS, EPISODE 10 EDITION -- WHEN THE HOES CAN'T CATCH A BREAK

I wrote about the hoes yesterday in response to my reaction to the Atom/Boston scandal. But really, my thoughts on hoes not being able to catch breaks in Only Friends, I think, extends to.... maybe to this entire show itself.

I thought yesterday's episode was fantastic. The acting was SPARKLING. I finally felt like I appreciated having both First and Khaotung acting together. Good LORD, Khaotung. The scene in Sand's apartment, the wailing meditation in the rehab triage. Khaotung out-Gaipa'ed himself. Utterly amazing, and First rose to the occasion as well. I also thought Book carried himself more strongly than I had seen in previous episodes -- him and Force carried their tension well in this episode.

But I wrote to @lurkingshan yesterday -- maybe typifying myself as an international fan -- that I feel a little unsettled about the direction of where this show is either going, and/or where I thought this show was going to go.

In my ask to Shan, I indicated that through ALL of the preliminary material we had available to us about OF, from the initial promos, to Jojo and team interacting on social media, the actors and the entire artistic team dropping hints -- that I had a relatively strong sense of where this show was going.

I will be honest and selfish! I was particularly excited about a potential vision from Jojo et al that having lots of sex on the part of an individual would be a decision that would possibly NOT be judged by others. I was damn excited about potentially seeing a meditation on that. It was certainly a vibe that had been easily reached in Jojo's early work in Gay OK Bangkok.

Shan wrote in her answer to me (thank you, dear friend!) that so much has shaped and likely changed the trajectory of Only Friends from its original gestation to the current editing process. This includes observations made by Jojo et al about how the fandoms have spoken about the show on social media.

Our amazing mutual, @bengiyo Sensei, went even further in separate conversation with Shan, noting even more of the various factors that have likely impacted the original vision of this show as had been proposed to us in the fandom last fall. Ben notes that the process of a show changing trajectory within its airing time is common practice. Both Shan and Ben did not hesitate to note that the presence of the shipped pairs of FirstKhao and ForceBook -- and the influence of the large fandoms surrounding these two pairs -- has very likely impacted the Only Friends storylines, to the extent of possibly demanding that the show have more linear, monogamous, and romantic stories and conclusions than were originally expected (at least, as expected from fans like myself, who were already familiar with the boundaries that Jojo usually likes to push).

While MewTop and SandRay continue to flirt with, to toe the line of more traditionally romantic conclusions (okay, maybe not MewTop as much, I'll get there in a bit) -- I feel like I've been caught by a bit of surprise that BostonNick have also been bitten by this current romance bug.

While I really did love this episode (and I'll explain why down below in a bit, besides Khao's stellar acting), I'm just feeling.... a little saddened and bogged down that Boston's ass was handed to him like that. So, Atom lies. Cheum stands up for Atom. I cannot expect Cheum to do less in that moment as a big sis, although I have very much questioned her judgment in the past (like inviting Mew's ex to their hostel Halloween party, what the fuck).

I'm sighing with a bit of regret, because in this episode, the framing of a resolution for Boston is that Nick comes back to Boston. Boston admits to Nick he's acted like an asshole, as I screenshot above, and we know that -- filming RayMew, sleeping with Top.

But I don't know, in the summation of his saying that he's done "awful things," if he's also lumping his life of engaging in casual sex, as he unwinds to Nick. I just -- I don't want Boston judging himself for having casual sex. (To @respectthepetty's point! Let the sluts slut. Why judge?)

Don't do shitty things to your friends, for sure, but if I were your mom, Boston? Have the sex. If someone's gonna judge you, it ain't me.

Are we getting an indirect judgement against Boston’s casual sex with a resolution that Nick will come back to Boston’s life? Is the show telling us that, vis à vis Nick's return, that Boston will be redeemed by.... monogamy? Is that what Cheum's and Mew's presence at the confrontation telling us? Is Boston’s ultimate resolution that he’ll have either a relationship or an LDR with Nick?

If that’s what works for the narrative device of Boston, then — okay. I will have to trust Jojo and team with that. I do NOT want to question Boston’s reaching a point of queer joy by finding love in a relationship with Nick. If Jojo and team are telling us a story that people-judged-as-sluts can find love in a relationship, then... I wasn't expecting Only Friends to go in that somewhat puritanical direction, but I'll go with it, because I trust Jojo.

But I think I am feeling a little bummed about how we may have gotten there. Because, goddamn: for once, give me a world in which casual sex is NOT judged. For heavens' sake, Cheum and Mew. Khai and I’ll sit in the corner with tears in our eyes.

My ho heart is pining for what could have been (chaos leading to a summation judgement AGAINST monogamous purity). But, anyway. None of this is ACTUALLY resolved, I need to tell my damn self; we still have two episodes left, and I’ll stop being so mewdy about it.

The other question I have floating about this episode is: what’s Mew’s motivation to get revenge against Top NOW? If he wanted to team up with Boeing to get back at Top — narratively, that may have made more sense two or three episodes ago, no? During the last episode, we saw Mew very much teetering on the edge of what he should do. His moms LOVED Top, and they missed all of Mew’s confused signals. We ended episode 9 with Mew stating to Cheum that he thought he was still in love with Top.

I appreciate a good state of confusion. Mew might still love Top. Mew might still be damn angry at Top, too. As I’ve written before, the wise Daniel Tiger has taught my kids, and so many more, that having two or more feelings is okay.

But I’m wondering about the timing of this arc. Mew plans something out with Boeing seemingly AFTER he's chosen to resolve his issues with Top. What was it about Boeing’s presence that triggered another revenge reaction in Mew? Mew’s….already been there with revenge. With Ray. And that’s done now. I don’t think I’m clear on Mew’s motivation on revenge AGAIN. Unless? Unless... I'm rubbing my hands together....

.....unless it’s to actually just SLEEP with Boeing, because come AWN, let me get to what I actually, really LOVED about this episode.

Shan indicated in her answer to me yesterday that OF was originally supposed to be constructed with GMMTV’s stable of supporting actors — your Neos, your Marks, your Papangs, your Monds.

For me? Man, Papang’s and Mond’s ENERGY was fresh to watch. I totally squealed at the possibility of BookMond. Mond is just so…..THERE, in a “why yes, look at my manly muscular shoulders, why yes, my gym membership comes with towels and high-end shower products” kinda way.

I liked Mond’s THERE-ness. I like that plants are the new Netflix.

I liked the spice of newness and curiosity in this episode. I liked seeing supporting faces, people that we know and love in Papang and Mond, doing something bold and totally different, and I love the ideas that they bring with their characters -- that Daddy Dan is very obviously in "like" with Nick; and that Boeing is truly around to fuck some damn shit up with Top, and maybe Mew.

Am I demanding this show BE ABOUT curiosity and newness? Unfortunately, that's what turned me on in this episode, and I admittedly would loooove to see more of it as this series winds down.

No, I do not have the right to DEMAND where this show goes. Westerners demanding things of queer Asian artists is an absolute NO for me.

But I think, as I look back at the trajectory of the last few episodes, that I had hoped the show would be less about the branded pairs. I honestly didn't think Only Friends was gonna be about the shipping. I thought loose lips were gonna sink the ships, and I was standing on the beach, cheering my ass off. To see SandRay approaching change and commitment in a romantic and positive way -- the acting was PHENOMENAL, but the outcome was a little to-be-expected-for-a-BL-in-a-non-BL-show kind of way.

And as for MewTop -- while I'm confused about the timeline of Mew's vengeful waffling, should I just go ahead and expect them to get together AGAIN? I'd like to ask for contextual clarification. But, at this point, that's how I know Mew to be, so I think my answer is yes -- I will be expecting Mew and Top to get together after all of this.

As I wonder how the ships kinda took over this whole joint, I think the answer is obviously in front of my face. FirstKhao and ForceBook are the first two GMMTV ships to travel out of the continent for fan meets, with FK going to Brazil, and FB going to Italy. If storylines in a fictional drama upset the fantasies of ship fandoms that these couples may not get together in their drama commodities, GMMTV's wallets, and the fanbases, may not like that very much. If FB’s and FK’s characters don’t get together — and that has a demonstrable economic impact? Jojo and team may have no choice but to hand over some happy endings to some shipped dudes for Jojo's future at GMMTV. Jojo's had to toe lines before. We KNEW what he was indicating by putting Joss, Mild, and Tay together in certain ways in 3 Will Be Free. But he couldn't go so far as to actually show a throuple in intimacy. That would have been too much for GMMTV in 2019.

To Shan’s very apt and accurate point at the end of her answer to my ask — my hope for purely uncommodified art from the Only Friends team, art that doesn’t leverage a judgement against sex in its potentially romantic conclusions, may very well be a pipe dream. If Jojo and his team were pushed to keep the ships together -- and to create happy-ish endings for as many characters in this show as possible, AND to be forced to leverage monogamy IN those storylines -- then how can I judge the artists for needing to toe an economic line? I can't. We are damn lucky enough that Jojo makes art as progressive as Only Friends, as 3 Will Be Free, as Gay OK Bangkok. Only Friends is still a great show.

But.... there was a moment where I think more than a few of us thought that we'd see something truly experimental with the ships sinking. There may still be time to see something nuts happen. But in the end, if Jojo and team have to keep the ships sailing, I won't begrudge the artists. But I will hope that GMMTV can keep allowing for more progressively progressive art over time, maybe even for the sake of letting a ship sink every once in a while.

(Ephemerality…my hope that we’d see intrigue beyond the ships was perhaps ephemeral. But we still have two episodes left! Let’s see! @ranchthoughts @twig-tea @chickenstrangers @lurkingshan @neuroticbookworm @distant-screaming @clara-maybe-ontheroad @thatgirl4815 @slayerkitty)

[drinkyourvillainjuice]

Form answers! Part Two. less than last time because my wife is busy :(

How are you?

I started a new job, selling the souls of the innocents. its very fun and nice. its a silly shift and ends at night so it means i can stay up late and sleep in the morning :)

if the altruists had to do karaoke whod sing what?

im glad youd ask.

Dion: total eclipse of the heart, duh. he's like pushing 50 in my head

Teddie and Kay: the shallows by lady gaga and bradley cooper, but teddie does the lady gaga part

Mal: im your girl by ses because the only good kpop came out of the 90s when they were better at stealing from Black people and actually made good rnb like this looks like a brandy video clip if i squint my eyes and the lights is off. i could talk for hours by the impact of rnb on early kpop and how kpop were so much better at co-opting during the early stages of the process. also eugene looks the same!!! good for her!!! anyways, i love rnb, and i love cheap copies of rnb made by early skorea!! sue me!!!!!! you'll never be brandy!!!!! but you sure can make catchy copies

wil: Como La Flor by the one and only Selena. you're not really a latina (french Canadian, does that count?) unless your mom played that song on sundays while cleaning (my mom also had bjork in that rotation). jlo needs to pay for what she did btw

mc: GOOOD TIMES FOR A CHANGE SEEEE THE LUCK I HAD COULD MAKE A GOOD MAN TURN BAAAAAAAAAAAAAD PLEAS PLEASE PLSEAS ELET ME EMTLEM EME LET MEEEEEEEEEEEE GET WHAT I WANTTTT THIS TIME!!!!!!!!!

how do nuclear fission and fusion work?

lesbian sex and gay sex, same time

May I have Kay's hand in marriage? 🥺

do you have a hat that lets me kill people? if yes, you may go to step 2.

Who would winn in a fight Surpass or catalyst (It's a fight to the death)

surpass picks up the biggest rock she finds and drops it on catalyst while he is whining about the mc fucking up

[saecoyle]

spoilers warnings // opinion abt the first part

what I like :

Penelope being an absolute sweetheart and terribly socially akward but not being turned ridiculed, like a lot of "not-like-other-girls" fiction. Penelope is different than the ton as she's not sticking out but she makes it clear that she is a very common girl in her wants and desire, that she is just more introverted and has had less help from her family.

Her relationship with her mom getting deeper as well as their conflict. Love that!

Francesca being a really agreable character and her silent affection towards John is adorable. Definitly looking for more of them in the second part.

I actually enjoy the subplot of both Eloïse and Cressida, the season is really centering on the cracks of the ton's idea of normalcy before going further than the Londonian society in others books which is a great thing. It adresses that in an universe like Bridgerton there's a difficulty for the young misses in market to bond and form friendship because they're in constant competition, but also it doesn't take away the flaws of each-characters, making them whole. The three girls does not only compete with themselves but they also envy each one thing for each-other and are blind to the other person's issue, but at the end of the day the ton ends up being an issue for all of them in one way or another.

Violette and Agatha's brother, very cute, love their different views on marriage and their equal love for their children.

Colin is actually not a non-playable-character! Still feels a lil bit uncomplete to me but hey, it's only four episodes, it might come as well. I do really empathize with him with his awkwardness in episode three and four and hope for more as for later. Also they need to get him a more fluffy wig in the sense that : episode 3 with the wind, thank you.

what I disliked :

The constant threesomes (okay, only two) but I don't like lesbianism being used as porn content for men, even though if it means what it means (Colin is not content with one sexual or romantic partner if it's not Pen ect ect…) as a lesbian it is still icky to me. (Also I know that the few mlm scenes we've had caters to 'everyone' because straight women tends to love gay men but they're also more deeper than sex workers having to shag in front of rich nobles.)

The part 2 teaser, in genereal the fact that L.W will be revealed in this season and that the main conflict will be Penelope lying to Colin. But it's mostly because I've read the books and I hold Penelope and her work's dear in my heart I have issues about how it was handled. Personal preferences I guess.

Benedict's plot, not interesting, love the actress (very pretty) but in general I feel like theyre running in circles with him to keep the hype until they've made all their seasons and then his. Just not interested in it.

THAT half moment in the carriage scene where Pen tries to put her hands in his hair but it feels very weird bc in the book I felt it as unconcious and passionate and his hair being so stiff + the weird look turned me off so bad…sorry I know a lot of people like that scene in its entirety but it's the only part I had issues with.

I'm sad that we don't get news on Queen Charlotte's family situation bc it really intrigued me, I'm not surprised that the universe feels kind of flat.

things I am neutral about :

Kanthony not being that present, well it's not their seasons! I always have issues with ennemies turned lovers in the sense that they become boring very fast if theyre straight ((sorry)) and I do like them so I'm glad I didn't have the time to get bored by them, it also means more Francesca plot, more Creloise so I am truly fine with it.

The Mondrich getting nobles traits, I just wished it focused on the son too. Maybe about how pressured he would be as a young guy, ect, but there's still time.

Oh and it took me a MOMENT to understand the logistic of him f*ngering her, at first I thought he was just pleasing her outside and I was like "but the logistic? does he just gets out of the carriage with wet fingers and goes tell his mom he's getting married?" But it seems that yes. So… Okay.

The pregnancy race, idk it just feels obvious that Pen at the end of the day might win bc one will have a girl or one will be too late ect… I do find the commentaries about sexuality funny, and if it means more Finch and Philippa I'm fine with it.

general opinion for now :

I have been warmed up to be hyped by the season for a while now so there is not a real surprise that i'm appreciating the main romance as they're the only one I read the book and had seen across fandom in laws. Now the four next episode can make it more than great or sadly make my appreciation downgrade, it'll be a different experience that I've had with the other seasons bc I binged all of it and only had a overall opinion on the entirety of the show. Looking for the rest!

[wolfoftheblackflames]

Hello my misfits, here's what you've all been waiting for! Enjoy the meal =3 (Also don't be afraid of leaving a comment or two, I'd love to chat ^^)

Dancing with the Devil: Pt.4

Charlie was lucky the location was in Pride since she knew sinners like Vaggie weren't able to leave the ring. She looked annoyed slightly since the paparazzi were taking pictures of the various nobles coming into the large castle-like building. She dreaded the inevitable, but walked into the brightly lit area with her head held high.

Vaggie, however, kept a watchful eye since there was no telling when someone wanted to start shit. “The less we see of the Von Eldritch family, the better.” She heard Charlie mutter clearly dreading the encounter.

“Hmm, is that Lucifer's daughter? And she's with someone else this time?” A noble woman commented as Vaggie felt Charlie squeeze her hand.

“Seems like the princess has acquired the taste for the opposite sex. Perhaps this is just a ploy to make the young lord jealous and take her back.” Another noble woman sneered with a wicked grin.

“Could've picked a better looking whore than that small thing.”

That was it, the comment that made Charlie dig her sharpened claws into her own palm. “Those bitches…” She snarled softly hearing the two noble assholes laugh.

This surprised Vaggie who was all to ready to stab those noble fucks with her spear which she had left at home by mistake. “Charlie?” She lightly touched Charlie's arm making those eyes look at her. From ruby with yellow to white with red, those were the eyes of a demon. “Easy ok, come on let's go find a quieter spot hon.”

Charlie clenched her jaw slightly but followed Vaggie. It pissed her off that those two women back there got off easily. “Jerks…” She growled but blinked, noticing that once the two sat down outside in a rather nice garden area, Vaggie was holding that tightly clenched fist.

“Let me have a look.” How easy it was for the angel to get Charlie to unclench her fist with just that soft gentle tone. “Oh Charlie…” That ivory gaze landed on the small puncture wounds those claws had caused.

“Sorry… I just hated hearing how they were talking about you…” The princess massaged the area on her own head where the horns threatened to come out.

Then that anger vanished once Charlie felt a soft kiss come onto her palm. “Thank you, but seriously if I had my spear right now, those two bitches would be a very tacky kebab.” She saw that evil smirk that crept its way onto Vaggie's face.

The demoness was stunned by the gesture. Sure, Vaggie had comforted her a dozen of times, but this, it felt like a firework had gone off. A fresh shade of red blush decorated Charlie's rosy cheeks as she started to giggle. “I love it when you get feisty.” She stated and repaid the gesture with a soft kiss to Vaggie's forehead.

The comment made Vaggie start to sizzle slightly, her face looking like a lantern right now with how gold it was. Though what sent her mind into a giant gay panic was those lips that had been planted on her forehead. It made her imagine what those would feel like on her own. “Vaggie hello?” Charlie called as she blinked innocently tilting her head.

What snapped the angel back was a sneer followed by a deep male voice. “Oh how cute, I dumped you so you've turned to pussy to get over me? I guess you can't exactly find a great dick to replace mine.” He smirked, his neon green eyes narrowing slightly.

Charlie slowly turned to the speaker. Her eyes widening. “Seviathan..?” Her voice came out in a soft growl.

“In the flesh baby.” The taller man grinned looking amused. “Whoa!” He laughed seeing Vaggie move to be between the two tall demons.

“I really don't like your tone, maldito idiota..” (Fucking prick) She snarled her voice sounding already done with this guy.

“Wow where did you pick this one up Charlotte, I wouldn't mind getting me a whore like her.” Seviathan smirked, brushing back his dark green hair with grey roots, his eyes leering at Vaggie. That all changed to shock when a knife whizzed past his cheek, cutting it as red dripped down his face. “Fucking bitch, you cut my face!” He snapped his eyes glowing.

The tall big chad of a man wearing his neon green suit was soon decked hard in the face when he tried to grab Vaggie. “Don't fucking touch her…” Charlie's voice came out in a vicious growl. She was already upset with the comments thrown at Vaggie before, but then this scum tries to touch her, fuck no. Flames slowly started to circle Charlie as her red horns stood up freely, with her long black tail with spikes and a triangular tip swished back and forth irritated. “And for the record I broke it off with you because you were basically making me uncomfortable with the sexual harassment. I'm not some fucking trophy, I don't owe you anything, and I only spared your ugly ass because we alongside Helsa were friends…”

Seviathan slowly got up, rubbing his swollen cheek. He snarled but then smirked. “You really have changed. I'll forgive this little stunt once Charlotte only because we used to be friends.” He sneered with a small laugh. The host soon went back to his own dates as Charlie seethed, watching him go.

(Wolf here once again. I hope you guys like my take on some info I found. One said Vaggie does have knives on her but doesn't know how she pulls them out. The other is that Seviathan excludes "big chad jerk" energy, anyway, thanks for reading! ^^)

[chaifootsteps]

Studio Anon here, after a while of lurking/doing my own thing. Luckily my emotions are much more in check and I’ve strayed from Viv stuff for a bit to relax and hang out with my loved ones! Coming back and seeing Viv throwing a hissy fit, Raph wanting to look/act like Angel (my goodness-), and somehow people still defending episode four is… really comedic, actually.

Everything is awful but man, somehow it just keeps getting worse!

Anyway, just writing my own general feelings on this and the ideas I had for a rewrite long before everything went to hell. I never really was interested in HH until maybe Helluva Boss’ trailer dropped. I found it strange that HH wasn’t even out yet but somehow this ‘spinoff show’ was already made and posted in the public. I thought it was really weird tho, considering HH is owned by a company now, technically, while HB is sorta just there? I only watched since it’s animation and I felt like I had to support it.

Buuuut the longer I had to stare at HB’s ugly designs (and seeing the new ones for HH) I simply wasn’t interested anymore.

I guess I dodged a bullet because jesus it just gets worse.

I don’t know how, genuinely, Viv is a shit artist and writer? She went to a prestigious art school for as far as I remember and got her shows made and animated. I’m studying myself, and god knows I’d want my stories out there! It’s clear that Viv has some idea of what she wants to do, but that’s the thing-,

All she had were concepts (also publicly displaying her fetishes in the public, which is also its own can of worms).

I know in my right mind I couldn’t send people out to work on my stories since they’re heavily in development- even then my character designs are complicated as shit so I wouldn’t dream of anyone animating. Viv’s style being the way that it is + her general palettes being Just Red makes it hard to focus on or do anything with.

I also don’t know how Viv is able to just show off her rape fantasies out there and I’d rather not talk about it (sex-repulsed and all), but the general lack of focus and priority in gay ships is really disgusting.

So, as a writer, I made a general outline of what I’d make Hazbin Hotel and/or Helluva Boss be about.

Redemption is an easy theme to work on for both. ‘Sins of the father’ as a trope could work too. I’ll just use HH for now, as this post would be lengthy should I cover both.

General worldbuilding; due to Lucifer’s habit of toying with human life, comparing them to nothing more than insects, God punishes him and Lilith (who could’ve been some kind of angel too? I know she’s from a different religion entirely, so let’s say she was a random angel) by sending them to Hell to deal with the worst sinners. He and the princes of hell (how do they not address this in Hazbin?), scorned and disgusted by Heaven, try to be controlling over their own citizens. Mimicking/acting out their anger towards God by playing God in their own rings. They’re evil and horrible leaders. Lilith makes Hell feel like a home for her and Lucifer at least, bearing a daughter to restore some humanity within the Pride ring.

So Pride, at least, is less threatening now that Lucifer has a daughter.

The other princes could then ‘rightfully’ call out Lucifer’s behavior, maybe serving as some antagonists for Charlie as she tries to convince them to bring their sinners in for redemption.

So TLDR; the princes and Lucifer have internal problems that Charlie would try and resolve somewhat since she believes in redemption.

Going off to the main story, Charlie is told of Heaven being evil and awful for what they’ve done to her parents and believes it until she meets V (or Ex-Overlord Vaggie in this rewrite). V was recently cast out of the other Vs and was maybe slated to die in the extermination until Charlie unknowingly saved her from her fate. Maybe we could even get a hint of V being an angel/exterminator before with one hesitating to kill her off. The two talk and when Charlie mentions Heaven being an ass, V could tell Charlie about Heaven being good, eventually causing Charlie to start thinking about redemption, and start the hotel.

V is given more thought in the story as Charlie’s love interest and the gateway to her learning more about the two sides. Charlie is so used to Hell being the way that it is that she never considered redemption until she hears and talks to V more. The two try and kickstart some sort of redemption but V is hesitant in getting redeemed and asks that, since Charlie is the princess of hell, they could ask Lucifer for a sinner or two to redeem.

Very loose from here, but after some talk, Lucifer gives them a rundown hotel to make their own, the Vs find out and gets Lust Sinner Angel down to take them out, but is charmed by the idea of redemption. Nifty, Alastor, Husk, and Sir Pentious are all from different rings and it takes Charlie a lot to convince the princes and to try and reconnect them to Lucifer, who seems to be caught off guard with how much Charlie is willing to give this a shot. Lilith on the other hand gets suspicious of V, which could lead to Lilith exposing V of being an exterminator and, “Messing with our daughter’s head so she’ll get killed in the next extermination!”

So drama with the parents, the princes, and struggles with redemption.

It all crashes down on Charlie and the Hazbin crew as they’ve began to grow closer on one another, V especially. The other princes could then be more empathetic (they aren’t as prideful as Lucifer, and Lucifer might love his wife more than his kid tbh) and try to reconnect with Lucifer in the same way Charlie connects to the other ring sinners.

Slowly but surely, the crew better themselves, and before the next extermination, the Angel Gabriel (ain’t he the whole Angel with the flaming sword?) flies down to see Charlie doing her best. Drama here, tension there, V is the first to get ‘redeemed’. Uh oh, angst!

V, after all this time, doesn’t want to be redeemed if that means she can’t stay with Charlie, which is why she was hesitant. Lucifer and the sins come in, try to kill Gabriel or something and there’s signs of a war, but Charlie stands her ground and tries to find some way to get both sides to work together on something, at least.

So. Purgatory.

I haven’t been mentioning Lilith much but she very much loves her daughter, and having enough pride in her (Charlie) ideals to make things better, to give people a chance at redemption, reminds her of her angel days. That peaceful life.

So she agrees.

The Hazbin crew get to work with her in purgatory, V gets to be all happy and cute with Charlie, and everyone learns to try and be better.

There. That shouldn’t be too hard. Maybe a little complicated but those are my surface thoughts. What do you and the others think?

[spicybylerpolls]

So I just read a really interesting review of the gay WW1 novel In Memoriam, and the reviewer (in a respected newspaper) is describing this adolescent, boyish, somewhat cowardly attraction between the two boys. 

Although they later prove themselves physically brave, Ellwood and Gaunt are cowards in love. Despite being well inducted by other boys into the improvised physical intimacy widely practised at their Wiltshire boarding school, Preshute, their own relationship remains chaste and hesitant: affectionate; Tennysonian; intensely sexless. Both characters are recognisable stock figures of boyish adolescent romance.

Now, it’s well and easy to say such in today’s era when homosexuality isn’t punishable by death, but in terms of Mike and Will, they’re going to explore in fine detail in s5 how and why both Mike and Will have been so careful. But what gets my eye is the mature way of discussing sex. If anything, works are often taken LESS seriously when they are coy about sex, because they suddenly seem embarrassed or childish or Disney-ified. I cannot imagine a more opposite view to the byler sex antis on here, who say, instead, that portrayal of adolescent sex is paedophilic. Can you imagine how you would be dragged to shit by any literary or film critics worth their salt for thinking that? For thinking that teenage sex is inherently bad or paedophilic? 

The review goes on to say:

Both young men torment themselves in attempts to hide their attachment from one another and themselves. It is a losing battle, the first of many they will see as war draws close.

Oof it sounds familiar! 

But mainly, the reviewer (a man) is appreciative of the detail that the author (a female) put into the work as regards sex:

Winn has written against the grain of her “lived experience” in another way too. In addition to not being a veteran of the First World War, some quick detective work in the acknowledgments section of the book reveals that she is also not a homosexual Edwardian adolescent. In fact, she does an intelligent job here too at simulating the male imagination, and although the sex remains carefully speculative, there are occasional observations of striking acuity. (“Gaunt’s prick was a little smaller than his. Ellwood had noticed that a long time ago, at school, had found it ruinously attractive.”)

I want to point out that this last quote comes before these characters engage in any sexual activity together in the book. 

And this comes on the back of the author running the novel by her male gay and bisexual friends for realism before publishing:

‘I had one friend who was really generous and candid about how to make the sex scenes feel real, but also about how to make the characters – outside of the sex – behave more like men. I mean, I don’t want to put too fine a point on this, but I remember at one stage he asked me, “So, who has the bigger penis?” And I was like, “I don’t know!” And he said, “Well, the characters know!”’ 

- Alice Winn

So there we are! Have Mike and Will ever showered together in the gym at school? We see the high school boys do this at Hawkins in s2, but Mike and Will have never been together at high school. Either way, there’s an acknowledgement here of the fact that teenage boys think very differently about sex than girls, and that if you want to create a piece of art that not only is enjoyable and exciting and compelling, but respects its characters and source material, you must be realistic about those character’s thoughts and experiences. I can understand prudishness a little, but to go as far as to call people who are calling for sexual realism in a coming of age story paedophiles????????? What is your aim?????? Feel free to be afraid of sex until you can figure it out, but do not call others who are engaging with something natural and normal perverts and degenerates. It’s not just cruel, but completely ignorant. 

In short, Mike and Will have definitely thought about and possibly know who has the bigger penis - and yes, they’re also very interested in that topic. 

Okay first of all, I'm definitely adding that book to my reading list! I love queer coming-of-age period pieces. Thanks for your service to the spicy byler community!

Second of all, this brings up a lot of interesting points. I especially love your point that, "If you want to create a piece of art that not only is enjoyable and exciting and compelling, but respects its characters and source material, you must be realistic about those character’s thoughts and experiences." So true! I think Bylers are typically really good at understanding this concept, but for whatever reason they completely throw that out the window once sex is in the picture.

"In short, Mike and Will have definitely thought about and possibly know who has the bigger penis - and yes, they’re also very interested in that topic."

[hamliet]

weird how alice degraded bl and yet their hs has a ton of bl tropes there

I mean, yeah. It's white privilege and ignorance at its finest. I've talked about this at length before, actually.

It's kind of a disservice to Asian BL not only by appropriating its tropes, but also just sheer privileged bliss. People in communities that are not as progressive on LGBT rights are not only less likely to be able to come out, but also less likely to be able to even explore their sexualities and gender identities. It's easier to just conform and to not think of desire and what it means, especially when we think of sexuality as a spectrum.

It also ignores older queer media in the west that has influenced BL, which was influenced by yaoi, which itself emerged as a distinct market/genre in the 1970s. Nothing's as insular as it appears; for example, Queer as Folk (the 2000 US version) is reportedly huge in China today, and I can see that it's influenced Kinnporsche and danmei novels. QaF also was the first US media ever to show sex between two men on TV--in December 2000.

Yeah. We're not even 23 years out from that.

But of course, explicit sex scenes between two men or two women have existed long before that in yaoi, which itself draws from literary and artistic traditions across the world that have existed from ancient times, because gay people have existed from, y'know, ancient times.

I don't want to keep harping on AO, though. I hope they learn, and the posts were from over a year ago, so I'm hopeful they are in the process of doing so. Though I don't really keep up with them. The reason I also can't be too hard on AO was that even 7 or so years ago, I would have agreed with them about yaoi because I didn't know any better. And I was wrong, and I am still learning, and I hope I will continue to learn.

I'll again also reiterate that I do not care at all that Heartstopper has no sex in it; good for them because not all stories need it! Sweet, innocent stories have their place and can be just as powerful and necessary as those that are darker and more explicit. I just think declaring that a story's lack of queer sex is somehow revolutionary is ignorant at best and rewriting history at worst.

I'll leave off with this portion of an interview with the creators of the American QAF, who are themselves a married gay couple who have been together for like... 30? years. I'm bolding the parts I want to emphasize.

COWEN The first time we heard about Queer as Folk was in the Calendar section of the L.A. Times. The whole article was about [how] no one will ever have the g ts to do a show like this in the U.S. People thought [the US version] was going to be a much softer show than Russell’s [original British version], and we knew it had to be outrageous and more sexual. The sex on our show probably was the most political statement we made. Because we all grew up seeing gay people represented on TV — if they were ever represented — [as] eunuchs or clowns. We never saw gay people having a sex life or being complete people. We had a list of subjects that we were determined to write about because we grew up at a very inhospitable time in the U.S. Not just the Defense of Marriage Act and Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, but we didn’t have gay marriage here until 10 years after the show ended.

LIPMAN ... We wanted our Queer as Folk to be a celebration of being. We saw movies and TV shows where gay people would hang themselves; they’d walk into the ocean to drown. We didn’t want any of that. We used the sex on the show to be joyous, angry, vindictive, self-destructive …

COWEN … and celebratory. There were so many topics that we needed to address because it was such a politically oppressive, scary time....

DUNN That also was the only representation that I saw: It was suicide or it was Disney villains. That was queer representation for me, and so seeing this show that was just so irreverent, so joyful, so sexual, so free, and it still dealt with the realities of being queer.

Every story is in a sense a product of its time, and it's not bad that Oseman is writing their story to address concerns they have and issues they deal with. It's just not inherently any more revolutionary and definitely not more inherently moral than queer media with sex in it.

[bigmack2go]

Ive never been more pissed than when i found out aki max and Audrey didn’t end up together. Not like usually tho. This isn’t me goinh *ugh but i ship them so much“ no. I couldn’t care less about whether i like their ship or not. Thsi is about polyamory representation. They build up two seasons like that, finally giving you hope of seeing a poly couple that doesn’t end bad. In the first season k might have been like „oh this is bait“ but then they actually got together and i was so happy. But no. You give me yet another polyamorous story that end in betrayal. You guve me one single poly couple and call it representation and then they end bad?

The fact that they actually were together doesnt make it better.

Every poly representation EVER ends up bad. In betrayal. (Thats exactly what poly ISNT about.) what picture do you think that paints us in?? And especially when you KNOW that its always like that, how dare you be apart of it??? This is like when the only gay character turns out to be the villain, the only female character being the love interest (?) the only black character doing a shooting the only muslim character being a therrorist: WRONG

I am NEVER one to compare minorities experiences to each other but i simplycant keep going know that EVERYONE pretends that poly people aren’t a minority. Sure you SAY that you know that but you don’t treat us as such. And by „treat us as a minority“ i do not mean under representation till the cows come home. Im not talking about conservatives treating me as a minority, in talking about progressive people. Im talking about putting up a fight to let us get our rights like everyone else.

because lets face it, they dont treat us the same way they treat other minorities. Maybe they put a little rep here and there (which is almost always BAD rep) but thats it.

(For the sake of authenticity i‘m gonna use gay as an example for these because thats a minority that im actually a part of and i dont wanna put myself in anyone else’s shoes)

„you dint have to include poly characters if youre not comfortable woth it“ BULLSHIT.

That is like saying „you dont have to include gay characters if youre not comfortable woth it“

If you heard that, would you go „oh that’s fine“ NO. You would not. Because even if you are a straight person who would feel uncomfortable having gay sex or a gay relationship, that does not make gay people less existent and therefore not representing them is not okay.

THIS IS THE SAME FUCKING THING. I dont CARE if you would have a threesome or not (EVEN I WOULDNT AND IM POLY). I exist! And just because you aren’t me, that doesn’t mean i don’t exist?! So get your damn shit together.

Sure polyamory isnt for everyone. NO SHIT. But neither is homosexuality and is it okay to leave that out? No. It fucking isnt.

If you dont wanna represent a certain type of relationship, you shouldn’t put any relationships at all

And to get back to wjat this all was originally about: BAD REPRESENTATION IS WORSE THAN NO REPRESENTATION BECAUSE IT PUTS US INTO A BAD LIGHT ESPECIALLY WHEN THE ONLY REPRESENTATION EVER EXISTING IS ALWAYS BAD ONE.

I think the only representation of polyamory that wasn’t bad is have ever seen in my entire life was half bad. And even that was left open (enough) at the end.

So no DONT TALK TO ME IM ON A RAMPAGE AND I AM NOT OVER REACTING. LET POLYAMORY EXIST FOR FUCKS SAKE

FUCK THIS FUCK EVERYONE. FUCK POLY PPL NOT BEING SEEN

Im so fucking done with this shit

The same tjing is for nonbinary people. I could go on a rampage about this too but i would literally only repeat myself for almost everything

Putting a lot of random tags cuz i want ppl to see this