#‘Suffering’ from the thunder saga specifically

[leafwateraddict]

Curiosity

Words: 1,757

Rating: T

Summary: You were never a sleep walker before, but ever since that last trip across the sea, you kept waking up on the shore, the last place you wanted to be.

Your curiosity gets the best of you, and you finally step into the water on your own.

[gigizetz]

Hi gigi!! I hope your day is going well :) I had a few questions about the creative process with Mr Jalapeño, if you don't mind answering or if you're at liberty to answer

First, how early does Jorgy Gorgy approach you with the request to do an animatic for the livestream? Wisdom Saga came so soon after the Thunder Saga, but you still did pretty lengthy animatics for both those sagas AND the Sufferring and Scylla animatics on your own channel (like, seriously, are you God?? How do you crank out these high quality animatics so fast??)

Secondly, we've seen Jay's reference videos that he sends to artists, but I was wondering if you get any creative liberty in this process, too? I'm asking because I found it strange/funny how the reaction of Calypso hearing about Ody's wife was more "oh my god no what the heck he's taken" rather than "oh I'm gonna kill this woman" which was prevalent both in the original demo of the song and the animatics that sprouted from it! Was this change a direction you took, or was it one Jorgy wanted?

Sorry for the long ask, and I completely understand if you cant/don't want to answer some of these questions! Hope you have a lovely day tho :D

it's totally fine to ask that :D

for both animatics he approached me roughly 20ish days before the release of the songs (I think with Mutiny he might've reach out earlier but I can't remember), and we quickly go through which parts of the saga I'll be able to work on within that time frame.

And I do have a lot of creative liberty in those works. This specific Calypso moment was all Jay though!

[theoldgvard]

im so incredibly obsessed with jorge’s portrayal of odysseus in epic

i genuinely cannot listen to thunder saga all the way through because the aura of dread and horror is so strong, and it’s entirely because of how these specific versions of odysseus and eurylochus are written

to see an odysseus who is so desperate to minimise the harm he causes all throughout act 1 turning to senseless violence out of sheer lack of other options is genuinely awful, especially when considering it comes entirely from a place of love, from a longing to see his family again. his entire driving force is love, and it is love which makes a monster out of him.

pairing that development with the fact that it was eurylochus who opened the bag. every defeat from ocean saga onwards is the breaking down of odysseus’ commitment to polites’ ‘open arms’ approach, and it all starts with eurylochus dooming them to posiedon’s wrath by releasing the storm. then it is he who suggests leaving their crew at circe’s palace, he who constantly second guesses odysseus’ judgement until odysseus himself can’t even trust it. it is eurylocus, tired and hopeless, who dooms odysseus to his fatal decision.

to see odysseus choose to let them die feels tragically full circle; he finally lets go the crew, the brother, who have tainted his desire to be human and cause no suffering. but the damage is done already, he is a different beast now. he shoulders all of the guilt, whether it belongs to him or not.

but even without eurylochus’ betrayal, i think there was no world in which odysseus didn’t make the same choice. because it was always, it will always be penelope. his everything. all his power.

he has traded the world just to see his son and wife.

[noviscor]

i need someone who can animate to animate laurence and garroth to suffering from the thunder saga (specifically mcd season 2 laurence and garroth cause theY WERE ON A BOAT APHMAU FUMBLED BY NOT HAVING THEM ENCOUNTER SIRENS. LAURENCE WOULD SWAN DIVE INTO THAT SEA FOR A SIREN GARROTH WHAT WITH HOW HE WAS ACTING WHEN THAT MAN WAS IN THE IRENE DIMENSION)

[blumyng]

The narrative is losing cohesion. At this point, Epic should be called very loosely inspired by Odyssey and we should ignore all reference to the greek myths altogether.

And for people arguing that it's not weird that a mere mortal defeated a god... gods, specifically Olympians always win in the end. Non-Olympian gods like Scamander or Thanatos may lose temporarily but what happened to the winners? Achilles dies (although his death is complicated and not really about Scamander and he was a particularly divine demigod). Sisyphus is condemned to an eternal torture. Diomedes wounds Ares and Aphrodite but with the backing of Athena. Neither were "defeated" and since they were technically not allowed to interfere in the war he got off lightly but that's an exception. Certainly no one escaped divine retribution from their attempts to one-up and humiliate the (Olympian) gods. So many Greek myths warn people from that hubris. No one just suddenly, with no divine help, gets powerful enough to completely defeat, humiliate, and torture an Olympian god and actually get away with it. Even if they did at the moment, the gods WILL take their revenge. Just like Poseidon claims, what's to stop him from creating a tsunami to drown Ithaca after that defeat? He can even do it far away from Ithaca. What's to stop other gods from taking umbrage to Odysseus' actions? And how will Odysseus stop them? This "power-up" certainly cant make him stop a literal tsunami or concentrated thunder or any myriad of ways gods can fuck up mortals. If he could, well then, why did we bother so much about the power of the gods in the previous sagas? Why did Odysseus and his crew suffer what felt like inescapable pain? Why did Astyanax have to die?

Because why now? If Odysseus can suddenly become powerful through powers of anger, madness, love, friendship(?) or whatever why not before? Why not when his crew died to the Cyclops, when first attacked by Poseidon, when faced with Zeus? Why does Odysseus gets to suddenly break the rules? If there are reasons to it, it's not told in the songs. The logic of the world suddenly collapses.

And dont even talk about that ridiculous power-up. I dont care if it's animation and game influenced. The title says "the musical". It's published first and foremost as songs, advertised as a musical. If people are confused about the sudden turn of events after listening to the songs, the story is not properly explaining itself.

The narrative simply does not match the genre nor respect its original sources. I felt it concerning that Athena's character seemingly collapsed in the Wisdom saga. She was a cool, calculating and exacting strategist in the earlier sagas, Odysseus and she parted on explicitly bad terms and then in the Wisdom Saga she suddenly turns into this worried, friendship-cherishing quasi family friend who stakes her life trying to rescue her "friend". Some crucial character development is missing from the end of the Cyclops saga and the Wisdom saga. Yes, she turns back time to see what Odysseus suffered. But again, why his suffering post-My Goodbye softens Athena when his previous hardships didnt move her?

Zeus too becomes a caricature of himself. In his previous appearances, he was a self-assured judge of both men and gods and he delivers fate and divine judgements to Odysseus (though he does comes off as cruel). Yet in the God Games, he is like an angry toddler, mad that his daughter dare win the game he proposed. He promised to grant her wish if she win his game but then he gets so mad?? I'm not saying that Zeus can't be both majestic and petty but the jump from one character to another with no explanation is jarring.

The songs still sound great, the singers did a super job and Act 1 raised some genuinely deep questions about the nature of humanity, monsters, and fate. But the recent sagas are quickly losing that strongly compelling narrative that I believe was the backbone of this musical.

[lolli-popples]

So, I absolutely love "No Longer You" from Epic, and there are some things I've realized about the lyrics on the release of the recent sagas, so I wanna do a little analysis about what all of the prophecy prediction lyrics are about.

Okay so first line; "I see a song of past romance" This is specifically referring to "Suffering". The siren featured is singing and pretending to Penelope. She's literally singing a song of past romance (since she's using his memories to create the image of Penelope, hence "past") "I see the sacrifice of man." You could read this as a reference to Odysseus becoming a monster, sacrificing his humanity, but it's also definitely about what happened with Scylla. "I see portrayals of betrayal and a brother's final stand," this about is the mutiny, I'm assuming the betrayal is the betrayal on both sides.

So, with those 3 lines, we have a direct retelling of the Thunder Saga, in order! I knew when I first listened to the song that the "brother's final stand" thing was the mutiny, but relistening, it's *incredibly* accurate to what happened. Next is more unclear: "I see you on the brink of death, I see you draw your final breath" Now, you could reason that this is Odysseus nearly dying at the end of the Thunder saga, but so far, the lines have been VERY specific, so I feel like "I see you draw your final breath" might be something more specific that hasn't happened yet. If that's the case "On the brink of death" could very well be when Odysseus is on the Cliff in "Love in Paradise".

"I see a man who gets to make it home alive, but it's no longer you" This one is pretty obvious even before the recent saga releases, with the themes of the musical the point is clearly that Odysseus will make it home, but he'll be so changed he'll no longer be the person her currently is.

Now the middle verse!

"I see your palace covered in red, faces of men who had long believed you're dead," This is pretty clearly about Odyseuss getting home and killing all the suitors. His palace is red with their blood, and they *long* believed him dead, but now they see he isn't. I think most people know this one.

"I see your wife with a man who is haunting, a man with a trail of bodies," Now when I first listened to this, I thought this was referring to Antinous. But what I realized, and why I wanted to go through all the lines of this song again, is that it's not. It's Odysseus! He killed the suitors, and in general, has a trail of bodies from all the stuff on his journey, and this is line, that makes Odysseus so upset, is about him seeing his wife again!

So yeah! Tiresias is truthful, he is the prophet with the answers you seek. He's 100% correct in all his predictions, even tells them in order! And when Odysseus complains about coming all this way for nothing, he even tells him he's gonna see his wife again!

Unfortunately, his wording is absolutely terrible XD

[bajuuuu]

I must say after re listening to the The Thunder Saga one too many times, it really is an amazing portrait of the lyric “deep down we only care for ourselves.”

Ignoring Scylla who sings the lyric, the obvious representative is Odysseus. He uses and then kills the sirenes, he trades the lives of six crew members for safe passage for the rest of them and in the end, of course he chooses himself- his own life- over the lives of the rest of (until very recently) his crew. Over and over we see him change, see him living up to the “be the monster to everyone but us” (though us is very loosely defined here).

He stopped caring, and even the crew see this. In Different Beast Odysseus gets an entire chorus dedicated just to himself from the crew: “He is a different beast now/he is the one who feasts now.” And again “he is a man hade monster” sure the crew follow his decisions and views here they do after all start the first chorus with “we are a different beast now/ we are the ones who feast now.” But even here we see the first distinction between Odysseus and the rest. The “he” versus the “we”.

But Odysseus isn’t the only one! Eurylochus whose name I had to Google to spell properly, does the exact same. Sure. He is the voice of the crew, but that still comes second to him being “just a man” as he himself so skilfully puts it in Mutiny. He is tired and he specifically says “I am tired” instead of “we are tired”. At this point even Eurylochus goes and acts in his own interest. Even after he is told not to kill the cows. Even after Odysseus begs him not to do it.

Because the question in his mind at this point is “how much longer must suffer now/How much longer must I push through doubt.” On this island, at the end of his wits and strength even Eurylochus only thinks about himself.

Interestingly enough however, this isn’t the first time in this saga when he does so. It is however at the start of the very same song. “Tell me you did not know this would happen […] Use your wits to try and say i am crazy and mad." He begs Odysseus to lie to him. he begs him to say anything that he could use as an excuse not to engage Odysseus in the fight. but Odysseus is tired. And he has no more words to say. "I can't" he yells but Eurylochus's response isn't one of anger per se. Only… regret "then you have forced my hand". Keyword here "Forced". Eurylochus doesn't want to fight. He really doesn't. Odysseus is his friend… his brother. There is yet again a discinnect between Eurylochus the voice of the ship and Eurylochus the man.

In the end it is just two desperate, tired men doing what neither of them wants to be doing but needs to do because in the end the only person they care about is themselves.

[twomanyfandomshelp]

If you haven’t listened to the Thunder Saga yet, this is your spoiler warning.

Also, look at this album cover art! It’s so beautiful.

Apologies in advance for all the caps lock you’re about to see, and please ignore whatever typos or grammatical errors you find, it’s like three in the morning.

Enjoy watching me slowly lose my mind and my commentary become more and more unhinged.

MR. RIVERA-HERRANS

JORGE

JAY

MR. JALPEÑO

MY HEART CAN’T TAKE THIS WHY MUST YOU BE SO TALENTED never stop please Jay I need more I need your music directly in my veins

SUFFERING

Oh my gosh, I figured this song would be about the sirens but what the heck how did I not realize the siren would pretend to be Penelope?!

“Come play with me and our daughter” Excuse me, Mrs. Siren you are incorrect, he has a son and he is wonderful how dare you disrespect Telemachus like that. Watching chat go crazy over this line during the watch party was pretty fun though.

Odysseus tricking the siren into telling him how to avoid Poseidon was so smart!

YOU’RE TELLING ME EVEN POSEIDON IS AFRAID OF SCYLLA?!

This chorus is a bop

DIFFERENT BEAST

Oh my gosh this is such a tone shift from the last one and I love it!

I LOVE THIS CHORUS AND THE CALLBACKS OH MY GOSH

My man is so smart and I love him for it. Not only did he figure out there were sirens nearby just from an empty ship, but he had the whole crew put beeswax in their ears and scoop up the sirens while he distracted their leader (I’m assuming she’s their leader?! idk) and tricked her into telling him how to avoid Poseidon!

THE SIRENS BEGGING ODYSSEUS TO SPARE THEM AND ODYSSEUS’ RESPONSE OH MY GOD “i made a mistake like this/it almost cost my life/I can’t take more risks of not seeing my wife/cut off their tails, we’re ending this now/throw their bodies back in the water/let them drown” SIR WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DOWN WITH MY ODY?!?! HE WAS NOT KIDDING ABOUT BECOMING THE MONSTER RUTHLESSNESS IS MERCY UPON OURSELVES

And now the chorus is different and it’s talking about Odysseus and the choice he made to become a monster and ahfhsidhsndg

ODYSSEUS SCREAMING TO KILL THEM ALL AND THE SIRENS’ SCREAMS?!?! JORGE!!!!

SCYLLA

Oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh

KJ BURKHAUSER’S VOICE IS SO FREAKING BEAUTIFUL I LOVE IT SHE SOUNDS SO PRETTY AND HAUNTING AT THE SAME TIME AND THEN SHE GETS SCARY AND I JUST AAAAAHHH🧎‍♀️🙇🏼‍♀️

“Deep down you know that we are the same” Excuse me ma’am what does that mean?!

EURYLOCHUS HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO US?!?? I already knew he opened the fucking bag but it hurts to hear him admit it out loud

EURYLOCHUS’ “forgive me” SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE ODYSSEUS’ “forgive me” FROM JUST A MAN AND I KNOW THAT’S THE POINT BUT IT STILL BREAKS MY HEART

FULL SPEED AHEAD

“Eurylochus, light up six torches” NO ODY DON’T DO IT DON’T SACRIFICE YOUR MEN

THAT “hello” EXCUSE ME MA’AM??!?!!

HER VOICE OH MY FUCKING GOD

THE SCREAMS IN THE BACKGROUND AS THE SIX MEN ARE TAKEN AAAAAAHHHHHH

MUTINY

I love the snippets we’ve heard of this one, I’m very excited and so very scared.

EURYLOCHUS IS SO PISSED AT ODYSSEUS OH MY GOD NO STOP TALKING EURY YOU’RE GOING TO GET YOURSELF KILLED!!!

HERE IT IS HERE’S THE PART I KNOW OH MY GOD I’M SO SCARED!!!

WHAT THE REST OF THE CREW STEPPED IN AND STABBED ODYSSEUS INSTEAD BECAUSE HOW COULD THEY EVER TRUST HIM AGAIN KNOWING THAT HE’LL SACRIFICE THEM TO GET HOME!!!

NO DON’T DO IT EURY DON’T EAT THE COWS!!! I DON’T CARE HOW FUCKING HUNGRY YOU ARE EURYLOCHUS DON’T YOU DARE TOUCH THOSE COWS!!!

THE CALLBACKS TO LUCK RUNS OUT!!!

OH MY FUCKING GOD EURYLOCHUS JUST CALLED HIM ODY OH MY GOSH “Ody we’re never gonna get to make it home, you know it’s true… You don’t know that’s true!” Eurylochus no don’t give up if you give up you’re definitely never making it back home 😢

OH MY GOD NOW EURYLOCHUS SAID “I’m just a man” SIR YOU DON’T GET TO SAY THAT IT’S ONE THING TO KILL AN INFANT TO SAVE YOUR WIFE AND SON IT IS ANOTHER TO OPEN A BAG THAT YOUR CAPTAIN SPECIFICALLY SAID NOT TO OPEN BECAUSE YOU DIDN’T TRUST HIM WHEN GUESS WHAT HE WAS RIGHT AND OH LOOK NOW YOU’VE KILLED MOST OF YOUR MEN ARE YOU HAPPY EURYLOCHUS OH AND NOW YOU’VE KILLED APOLLO’S CATTLE WHICH IS GOING TO KILL EVERYONE ELSE WHAT THE FUCK EURYLOCHUS THIS IS YOUR FUCKING FAULT AND NO SHUT UP I’M NOT CRYING YOU’RE CRYING 😭

NO NO NO DON’T KILL THE FUCKING COWS

The way Odysseus immediately goes into leader mode and starts commanding his men in a desperate attempt to save them even though they just LITERALLY FUCKING STABBED HIM IN THE BACK and he begged them not to kill the cows

��We’re too late” oh my god you can the emotion in Ody’s voice because he desperately wants to save his men and they’ve doomed themselves

THUNDER BRINGER

YES I’M SO FUCKING READY LET’S GOOOOOO

Luke Holt has an amazing voice oh my gosh the way he says distress and confess 🥵

I KNOW WE’VE ALREADY HEARD THIS CHORUS BUT IT’S SO FUCKING GOOD OH MY GOD

“Choose. …choose?… Someone’s gotta die today, and you have got the final say. You or your crew.” OH MY GOD WAIT WHAT I DIDN’T REALIZE ODYSSEUS HAD TO CHOOSE WHAT NO

It’s giving that one TikTok sound “One and two. One of you’s gonna die. The other’s gonna live. And, the thing is, it’s your choice.”

JUST ZUES FORCING ODYSSEUS TO MAKE ANOTHER IMPOSSIBLE CHOICE!!!!

The combination of the crew singing the lyrics from Just a Man and Penelope singing about taking away Odysseus’ suffering is just… so beautiful and so heartbreaking at the same time

“Captain?… I have to see her… But we’ll die… I know” OH MY GOD WHAT THE FUCK JAY AND ARMANDO HOW CAN YOU DO THIS THE EMOTION THAT THESE MEN CAN CONVEY WITH JUST THEIR VOICES IS UNREAL

And now we’re back to Luke’s absolutely phenomenal voice as Zues just massacres Odysseus’ crew

NOT THE SAD PIANO PLAY OUT NO JAY DON’T oh it’s too late, now I’m crying.

[cowboys-tshot]

Thunder Saga Recap

For those that were not present for the livestream, it can get confusing as to what the hell is happening during the songs, since there is no visual aid (until the rest of the animatics from the livestream are posted, that is).

Some of this is based on the animatics, seeing as the artists were following Jay's lead on character design and whatnot. Other parts are based on the descriptions that were shown alongside the lyrics (these are the parts I write in quotes + italics). The timestamps aren't exact, but the chronology of events is the same.

<< SPOILERS BEYOND THIS POINT >>

SUFFERING

I'm unsure whether or not Odysseus is tied to the ship's mast during this scene, but I would assume he is (based on the actual part with the sirens in The Odyssey).

01:52 – When Odysseus says, "But Scylla has a price," he is referring to the fact that Scylla will eat six men from whatever ship passes by her. She only has six heads, so she only eats one man per head.

DIFFERENT BEAST

00:00 – Fake Penelope gets shot (with an arrow, I think).

00:22 – Fake Penelope hisses.

00:57 – "The crew reveals packs of sirens caught in nets hanging over the ship."

02:59 – "The crew cuts off the tails of the sirens. They toss them back into the water, turning the water red with blood."

SCYLLA

*I don't have exact timestamps for this one, because the events here are almost entirely based on the animatic that played during the livestream. I kind of guessed at some points but as I said before, the important stuff is in order.

01:17 – Odysseus tells Eurylochus to light six torches. Odysseus knows that Scylla will kill six men, and plans to essentially serve six of his men to her on a silver platter by making them stand out.

01:27 – Eurylochus has lit the torches (at least mostly). Eurylochus himself is holding one of these torches.

01:55 – Scylla starts picking off the six men, brutally killing and eating them.

02:00 – One man down.

02:04 – Two.

02:12 – Three.

02:19 – Eurylochus is pushed out of the way of one of Scylla's heads. He drops his torch. A different man is eaten. Four.

02:23 – Five.

02:32 – Eurylochus realizes that Scylla is going after the men with the torches. He sees one of his crewmates on the other side of the ship, holding a torch as one of Scylla's heads prepares to feast. Eurylochus runs, reaches out, tries to warn him— but he fails. Six.

MUTINY

00:00 – "The ship is covered in blood and gore."

00:08 – "Eurylochus looks around at the gore. But Odysseus looks on."

01:13 – Boss Battle: Eurylochus.

01:29 – Eurylochus swings at Odysseus. The two begin to fight.

01:35 – Odysseus starts winning the fight, getting a few minor hits on Eurylochus before knocking him down.

01:45 – Just as Odysseus is about to deal the final blow, he is stabbed from behind (the wound is in his side).

02:10 – Odysseus is knocked out.

02:15 – Odysseus wakes up on the island of Thrinacia. He is tied up, and his wound is bandaged. They are in a pasture full of cows.

02:39 – Eurylochus points out a statue. He recognizes that it is depicting the god of the sun, but he doesn't recognize it as Apollo (who is the more modern god of the sun, that the crew knows and has worshipped in the past).

03:13 – Although Odysseus has not been specifically warned about the cattle (like in The Odyssey), he knows that these cattle belong to the sun god depicted by that statue. He knows that killing these cattle will not end well.

04:02 – Eurylochus slaughters one of the cows.

04:18 – Odysseus manages to untie himself. He urges his men to get to the boat and get away.

04:43 – Odysseus hears the thunder. He knows it's too late.

THUNDER BRINGER

02:33 – Odysseus has a vision (or hallucination, IDK) of Penelope. The animatic shows her descending from the sky like an angel.

03:15 – Zeus strikes down Odysseus's men.

03:42 – Zeus strikes down Odysseus's ship. Odysseus falls into the sea, surrounded by the bodies of his brothers.

Aaaand that's it for The Thunder Saga! I don't want to spoil anything for the next saga in case people aren't familiar with the original story, so I'll leave it there. If you have any additions or corrections, please let me know!

[lovelbear]

Is it bad I look at the thunder saga mostly different beasts from epic the musical and some of the lines just make me think c!centross

Specifically the line.

"he is the man-made monster, he is the one who conquers, you are a threat no longer. He won't take more suffering from you."

It is the souls talking about Violet, specifically when Violet takes the reaver from fable.

[maro0on]

I know im like 3 days late on this review/thoughts for the thunder saga-- but do i care?? no. so here it is

Suffering

overall i really do liked this song. it was deffo a whiplash from monster's vibes to suffering.. and like it was already hinted that "penelope" was a siren due to the 'daughter' part. it was def confusing at first glance but once it sets it, you start connecting things and i love it. it also shows ody's wits which i also love.

the only thing is i didnt like ody's rap part cuz it was giving like.... early verisons of epic ngl 😩😩 like its trying to be like a version of hamilton or something idk (no offence jay)-- all iknow that its giving early version of epic

7.5/10

Different Beast

i also really liked this one cuz it really showed his character development, especially right after monster. the edginess??? really gives you the chills you know like "omg character development?? brutality?? ruthlessness??? perioddd"

i guess the only thing is that-- ofcourse... the rap (or the his explanation ig) in the beginning (ig im not a very big fan of rap idk)

8/10

Scylla

not really much to say??? (wow professional reviewer) all i know is that its really good and i really liked it... especially the animatic in the live actually😳... really gives me the chills

9/10

Mutiny

this is the part where jay was sharpening his blade and slowly cutting into my heart (metaphorically) BECAUSE like sheettt the prophecy has been fullfilled ig

I see the sacrifice of man ✅ I see portrayals of betrayal✅ And a brother's final stand✅

and the reprises and callbacks to the songs???? but in a more heart wrenching way??? that was the first actual stab jay gave me 😭😭

the way i cried inside (because for some reason i cant cry.. maybe im dead inside who knows).... it kills me AND ALSO THE VOICE ACTING?? top tier. no more words to be said.

10/10

Thunder Bringer

zeus is a bitch. period. cant convince me otherwise.... except for this violation

SAMANTHA WHEN I GET YOU ISTG YOU WILL NOT SURVIVE-- /j

no really cuz WHYD YOU MAKE HIM HOT HERE?!?!?!? HES SUPPOSED TO BE SO FRIKIN HATEABLE YOU CANT EVEN-- send help jesus christ--

and again... the callbacks/reprise just got worse this is the metaphorical sword to the heart by jay...

and this part too.. oh lordy lord

it just kills me and my heart... that "i know" AODUHAAIUDBAGA

my only question is.. what happened to mic quality of eurylochus lol????

10/10

ig thats all lmao im excited for the wisdom saga, more specifically "legendary" and "gods games" LETS GO ATHENA

[hallikset]

Scylla

this ended up longer than i was expecting OR planning so here's a read more.

Purely of the opinion that Scylla is talking to only Odysseus in her song. I've seen some ideas that she's talking to/about Eurylochus for her first couple of lines, however I feel like they fit better if they're about Odysseus. Obviously Eurylochus feels guilt/shame over his actions of opening the bag, however I'm ALSO of the opinion that Ody's known since KYFC (why he blew off Eurylochus's previous attempt to confess in Puppeteer).

Plus, Odysseus still trusted (relatively anyway), and wanted to help the men get home--but after Scylla his men immediately betrayed him [Leaving them feeling betrayed, breaking the bonds that you've made.]

The following line [There is no price we won't pay] is directly about Ody and Scylla, echoed by the soldiers in Mutiny with [There is no price he won't pay], and of course proven true in Thunder Bringer.

As for the the chorus/focus of the song, one could easily assume that she's speaking generally to all of them, but I still think she's speaking to Odysseus.

[Drown in your sorrow and fears Choke on your blood and your tears Bleed til you've run out of years]

These lines can apply to Ody. Water has been used a lot in the musical for many different meanings, the most obvious being the ruthlessness Poseidon introduces, however it also has been used in the Thunder Saga by the Sirens as a method to end suffering (sorrow and fear being the specific suffering their offering to end). The second line refers to all the deaths Ody has brought on, intentionally or not, as the blood of 600 men is enough to drown and choke on--and we know at least for the first 500 or so Ody regrets their deaths heavily. The third line likely refers to the way fighting as Odysseus (and by proxy his men) shortens their lives, by fact of leaving them damaged in the long term the way long and brutal physical exertion can.

[We must do what it takes to survive]

Scylla is speaking again, of herself and Ody. Scylla in the myths hates what she's become, and the horrible hunger that comes with it, but still will do what she must to live. Ody will do anything to make it home to Penelope.

[Give up your honor and faith Live up your life as a wraith Die in the blood where you bathe]

Again, the first line would refer to Ody's tactics since he's emerged from the Underworld with the Sirens and Scylla. The second would and will refer to later, when he makes it home, a ghost of the man he used to be. The third i believe is a reference to a line all the way back in The Horse and the Infant, [The blood on your hands is something you won't lose]. By the time Ody dies, whenever that may be, he won't just have blood on his hands--but metaphorically be /soaked/ in it.

And of course, Ody joins Scylla as she sings [We are the same, you and I, I], because by the end of this journey he is.

[sera8273]

No matter the place or the time. It’s apparently clear that the Gods and Godesses alike are always watching the journey of Odysseus as he makes his treacherous descent back home while losing who makes him, well, him.

The Horse and The Infant:In the background you can hear a clock in the background when Ody speaks. Athena is watching in her Owl form. When Ody gets attacked by grown up Astyanax a crow is heard. Zeus is watching him in his Crow form before he actually speaks to him.

Matter of fact, Athena is watching Odysseus adventure until My Goodbye since he is her champion.

Ruthlessness:Specifically near the end where Poseidon kills everyone expect Ody’s ship. We learn that besides, Athena and Zeus, Poseidon was also watching the scene (Just A Man) play out. Ody asking “What have you done?” Is immediately met with ‘When does a ripple become a riddle wave?’ and ‘43 left under your command’ is again met with a ‘When does a man become a monster?’

Done for:Odysseus wasn’t the only mortal that was given dru- Holy Moly! from Hermes based on Circes amused and tired response. “I got this root from the ground with my bare hands-“ “Hermes gave it to you, didn’t he?”

It’s why the Thunder Saga, specifically in-

-Thunder Bringer: is so interesting because when Ody is considering his options that Zeus gave him. It’s 1. The same thing music snippet from Just a man with the Siren (Penelope) song in Suffering! “When does a candle become a blaze? (I can take the suffering from you!)” which, from the livestream, was MADE by Zeus which more or so confirms that he and the others were watching the whole thing play out!

And it’s clear that Poseidon was watching since Odysseus got stranded on calypso, an outcast Godess, island.

No matter what. One or more of the Gods/Godesses are watching our tragic hero:Odysseus, for every action he does.

[thehyperfixationspeedrunner]

so uh… thunder saga. are you alive.

Do not get me started.

I am not gonna lie when I got into this fandom (around January) and found out about the different sagas the one I was least excited about was the thunder saga (not for any reason in specific, it's just that I was most excited for the underwold, wisdom and Ithaca sagas, I love Circe with all of my strengths and the vengeance saga (I think that's the name) has Dangerous and another song that I'm always forgetting but that I am so hyped for and I hate fights between friends and this saga has a song called mutiny) so I did not have much expectations for this. Boy, did I understand that wrong. It is currently my favourite saga.

Suffering - SO DIFFERENT. Jorge always likes to play with old-fashioned and modern music, but he went all in for the synths. The melody was so pretty and the fact that in the chorus Odysseus picks up the you from penelope/sirens line "I will take my suffering from you". Also, fuck you Jorge, you made me believe that this wasn't sirens and I was already thinking of an alternative universe where he didn't go to war and spent his time with Penelope and instead of a son they have a daughter but because of his other self's shit he is also afraid of water (yes, I know, way too far but that's how my mind works)

Different beast - FUCK YES, I LOVE THIS SONG SO MUCH. THEY SOUND SO FUCKING BADASS THAT I ALMOST BELIEVED THAT THEY WERE GOING TO SURVIVE THIS EVEN THOUGH I KNOW HOW THE STORY GOES. FJENENRGKVKCDKSMSNEFNFJCJ IT MAKES ME FEEL POWERFUL. New favourite song from the musical in case it wasn't obvious. AND IT'S SO FUCKING CATCHY, I'VE BEEN SINGING THE CHORUS FOR THE PAST 2 DAYS

Scylla - this was the song I was most hyped for and it did not disappoint. Holy shit those harmonies were everything AND HER VOICE??? *chef's kiss* I do not have much to say because I was in awe the entire time (also is it just me or whe Odysseus says "the lair of scylla" it sounds weirdly like when Athena says "goddess of wisdom" in the first berse of warrior of the mind)

Mutiny - I was so scared of this one and I was right, it was horrible (<- in a this destroyed my feelings kind of way not in a this was a bad song kinda way). As I said before I hate when friends have fights, so this was... a struggle, but I got through it, barely. I absolutely love the fact that in the Odessey, Odysseus men were just dumb. They were warned by Tereseus and still did it. HOWEVER, in Epic, they just seem so exhausted and pessimist. It's just heartbreaking to hear. The do not have hopes of getting home and their too blind with hunger. Also, when they start singing "how much longer must we suffer now" and Odysseus starts overlapping? 😩👌 Perfection. Also, the men singing full speed ahead while Odysseus just screams faster is also everything to me.

Thunder bringer - holy shit this was so much better than I thought. When I heard in the snippets "If I were to make you choose/ the life of your men and crew or your own/ why do I think they'd loose" I thought it was just a reference to Odysseus' monster side NOT THAT ZEUS WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE HIM CHOOSE. Anyways I heard the last instrumental part of the song one (1) time, which was in my first way through the saga. I cannot listen to that knowing that Odysseus is drowning and his crew is all dead because of his choice, I just can't.

ANYWAYS, after this I just have to say one thing: CALL👏BACK👏SAGA👏. There were SO MANY references to previous songs.

BUT WHAT DID YOU THINK. WHAT'S YOUR OPINION????

(To answer your question the only reason I didn't perish is because I have to reach the end of this musical)

[girlinthetardis04]

LIVE THUNDER SAGA REACTION!!!!!!

Because I wasn't in time with the other releases sadly, but caw caw motherfuckers it's the 4th of July so happy drop day to ME!

Suffering - Different Beasts

Who's singing? PENELOPE??????

ARE THOSE THE SIRENS????????? Or is this just a dream he's having? Hmmmm...

Penny I'll jump in the water for you! Wait did he say daughter? ...Ody would be a great girl dad tho, change my mind.

OH MY GOD I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE THE TRANSITION BETWEEN THE TWO SONGS OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!

I FUCKING KNEW IT THOSE WERE SIRENS

"Cut off their tails, leave them to drown" ??????????????

Damn, he's really taking Poseidon's advice to heart, huh?

Wait can sirens even drown, I thought they could breathe underwater... although if they can't move, having their tails cut off and all...hmmm... or maybe they're the classic Greek bird sirens...

Daddy chill 😬

Wait, was it just my impression or did the chanting of "Odysseus" sound like the chanting of "Poseidon" at the start of "Ruthlessness"?

★I love how differently Mr. Jalapeno handled the sirens. In the original Odyssey, Odysseus had himself tired to the mast so he could listen to their song (which highlighted his hubris, that was much more evident in the original text) but having him use the beeswax and read their lips was extremely clever. ★

Scylla

Hmm... Not a huge fan of her voice... Doesn't really fit a monster...

EUCALYPTUS YOU BITCH!!!!!!!

Omg, the "Full Speed Ahead" callback!??!

I genuinely can't understand the lyrics, but I know bad shit is happening. Wait, is that a bit of "Survive" thrown in there?

Nevermind about her voice, it's great 😳

★ Ok, I'm very glad I read the Odyssey when I was 9, because I have a hard time with the lyrics sometimes. I know in this part Ody had to choose between sailing closer to Scilla (which would probably kill up to six men) or closer to Cariddi (which would definitely kill all of them), so I'm assuming this is the bit where the sailors bit it or got bit, as it were★

Mutiny

-Ok, I had to pause here because I was absolutely enraged-

I'M SORRY???? I'M SORRY???? WHO WAS THE BITCH THAT OPENED THE WIND BAG, BLOWING EVERYONE TO WHERE POSEIDON WAS, COSTING YOU 558 MEN, WHICH FORCED ODYSSEUS TO OPEN THE WIND BAG AGAIN, WHICH BLEW EVERYONE TO CIRCE'S ISLAND, WHERE YOU NEARLY LOST THE REMAINING FORTY MEN, AND IN FACT, YOU VOTED IN FAVOUR OF LEAVING THEM BEHIND AND SKEEDADDLING, BUT NOOOO, SIX MEN IS WHERE YOU DRAW THE LINE???? YOU HYPOCRITE

Why does this sound like a fighting game miniboss battle?

WHO JUST GOT STABBED?? ODYSSEUS?????

"Where are we?" "Moo" 10/10, no notes

"Don't open the bag"

*proceeds to open the bag*

"Don't kill the cattle"

*proceeds to kill the cattle*

ODY CANON NICKNAME????

Honestly, 99% of the shit Ody goes through

THE JUST A MAN CALLBACK???????

OH THAT IS IT, EURYLOCHOS, GET OVER HERE, I'M THROWING HANDS

Yeah, ok, as an Odyssey reader, everybody gonna die, I been knew, let's move on.

Thunder Bringer

★LET'S FUCKING GOOOOO THUNDER BRINGER, THE SONG I'VE SPECIFICALLY BEEN WAITING FOR, I'M READY BABY, WHOOOO★

Is that the same theme as in God Games??????

Mr Zeus's voice actor, spectacular job, chef's kiss, no notes. Also I saw the animatic trailer, and at the cost of being smited, I get it. I get it.

The way King of Ithaca sounds so mocking coming from Zeus omg.

I VOTE EURYLOCHOS!!!! I VOTE HE DIES!!!!

The crew. I vote the crew. Ody. C'mon. There's only 40 of them left, what is even the point.

Oooh, the call backs??? This should be called the Callback Saga.

"but we'll die" FUCKING KARMA BITCH, SHOULDA THOUGHT ABOUT IT

★No joke, I love the chorus for this song so much, I just laid on my bed staring at the ceiling and smiling like an idiot 😃 <- me, ca 10 minutes ago★

[royallygray]

Out of curiosity, do you have any song recs? :p Happy to give some back if you'd like as well

Hello! Yes, I do.

Have you by chance heard of EPIC the musical? I love all the songs in there. If you'd like a specific few, I'd recommend Open Arms, Warrior of the Mind, Remember Them, Luck Runs Out, Ruthlessness, Puppeteer, Monster, Suffering (aka the happiest song in Thunder Saga), Scylla, Little Wolf, and We'll Be Fine.

The Wisdom Saga (the most recent saga) was released two days ago. And we're all freaking out about it. All the songs there are Legendary (pun intended).

I have a few other recommendations. I don't know who you are, so I'm just listing a bunch I like. Some are gonna be Greek Mythology themed bc I'm obsessed and I have a playlist.

(in case anyone was intrigued, here you go)

Little Lion Man by Mumford & Sons

Pomegranate Lips by Derivakat

Take The Reins by Vinny Marchi

the ENTIRE The Normal Album by Will Wood

more specifically, Marsha, Thankk You For the Dialectics But I Need You To Leave

and ...well, better than the alternative

Nothing New by Taylor Swift ft. Phoebe Bridgers

W.I.T.C.H. by Devon Cole, but Annapantsu and Chloe Breez both have great covers

so american by Olivia Rodrigo

Pink Pony Club by Chappell Roan

Tongues & Teeth by The Crane Wives

Thus Always To Tyrants by The Oh Hellos

The Moon Will Sing by The Crane Wives

Inertia by AJR

Steve's Going To London by AJR

Hit The Road Jack cover by 2WEI

Against the Kitchen Floor by Will Wood

All You Wanna Do from SIX

If you want more, or you want me to make this into a playlist, I can do that.

Happy listening! :D