#<-- I don't hate her but tagging this just in case
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juchily · 10 hours ago
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Yellowjackets S3 Ep1 thoughts
Spoilers below ⚠️
not them buttering us up with the cute fun scenes like them playing tag so they can hit us with the horrible stuff later... I see you showtime
edit: MARI CALLED SHAUNA GAYWAD WHEN SHAUNA TACKLED HER?? ALSO JUST IGNORING THAT SHAUNA IS COMPETITIVE IT WAS INDEED VERY GAY THE WAY SHE WAS MANHANDLING MARI
Taivan taivan taivan taivan!
taivan broke up after rescue 😞
Travis is one of the girls ✨🧚
Shauna's freaky as shit... But like 🙇
That whole scene with Melissa and Shauna was gold, "You have a personality?"?? Be fr the extra gets her first real line and the writers write in a character pointing it out this is so funny
Melissa being so eager to suck up and impress Shauna, two girls telling each other "yeahhh", Melissa wants that cookie. Genlissa shippers it's OVER
what do we think Nat got arrested for when she was 24?
Love Callie for that... I've never hated her be real she's too much of an icon to hate
Im going to be real, when those girls talked about the girls eating pig blood and then having a druggy orgy I did infact go "we all wish" because do we not?? The writers KNOW what we want at this point lol
did Shauna know pre crash that Lottie was schizophrenic? Did she find the pill bottle post crash? If she knew this, would this be a fuel for her hate for Lottie because of her visions, miracles, etc
Lottie being a therapist... God she's too much of everything I can't even begin <3
Lottie and Travis as a duo are so cute (AS NON ROMANTIC, I HATE THEM ROMANTICALLY THAT)
...i thought Van and Tai were going to go at it in the restaurant bathroom ngl, dining and dashing and fucking in an alley is cool too
also that scene in the restaurant where Van seems to be feeling weird... And then right after that the waiter guy dies (supposedly) and we see that onscreen effect go away... Just saying
Id eat the shit (read: spit) out of that soup...
Mari and Shauna getting treated like misbehaving dogs... They low-key are. Poor Mari honestly. And Shauna gaslighting...
SHAUNA AND CALLIE BONDING OH MY LORD CALLIE'S A MINI SHAUNA AND I DONT KNOW WHETHER I SHOULD BE SCARED OF THAT
i can believe Ben finding a war/apocalypse prep container especially considering Cabin guy's insane amount of ammo, but I find it odd that the case is pristinely clean despite being covered in a pit of dirt and dust. Maybe they just didn't bother making it look weathered and I'm looking into it too hard.
NAT HALLUCINATION PLUS CHERRY BOMB 💥💥🎉
Honestly I think Walter may have lied to Misty, on the other hand Van and Taissa were getting down and dirty and Shauna was actually bonding with her kid for once
they make memorial for Javi, then Jackie, then Wilderness baby, im just confused on the fact they don't mention Laura Lee? Especially that Lottie of all people wouldn't mention her. Also the five lanterns I still think that's a clue to a death count this season (past and present, maybe just past timeline)
Ben is up to some evil shit... I don't think Mari dies in that hole though from some of the teasers we've seen
callie pocketed that tape... Didn't anyone tell you not to open other people's mail young lady 🤓
CAKE, they played CAKE, oh I can die happy
Ending thoughts:
Wtf is that sound Travis heard? Does the sound have something to do with being drunk? He hears it first when he's high, and the other girls hear it after the feast (they had like wine or something).
The no eyed man... come on let's get a good look at 'im
Who left the letter? Will the other Yellowjackets get a letter like the one that was supposed to go to Shauna?
What will happen to Mari? What is Ben's purpose of making that trap and what does he plan to do now that he's catched one of the girls. Furthermore, this would prove he knew they survived the cabin fire. Will this lead to the girls finding where Ben is?
Laura Lee erasure... 😭
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Note
Most people who are discussing Mary as of recently haven't complained about people who love her nor act like people cant 'love women despite their faults' and a lot of the time people are defending.
And it's ehhh a bit weird to assume that someone doesn't love her or are taking Arthur's side because they simply point out her flaws as a way of discussing characters the way fandoms do.
1. Anon, you clearly did not read the post I read so I can understand how my post can be taken out of context. But there had been people criticizing Mary which I personally find unfair because they solely focus on Arthur's hurt and that person openly stated that they hate Mary. So I am not assuming anything.
There was someone who did say people who love Mary "pretend she's an angel and fail to see her complexities", implying that people who love her insist that she is perfect, etc. My post was a response to that.
It's not about Arthur deserving better than Mary because Mary is 'bad' or something, it's about them both deserving happiness, which is what people often preach.
2. Well, I have seen posts or comments/reblog (here and on Reddit) actually saying "Arthur deserves better than this woman who uses him and doesn't give anything back in return (hinting at sex), etc." So yeah! Exactly! It is not about Arthur deserving better than Mary, but some people definitely think that way! And if you don't think like this and never have said something like that, maybe it's because my post isn't about you!
If you want fandom discussions then you should not be all snarky when it happens. You don't have to agree and ofc you can make some post talking about how you feel different, but having some of my mutuals recieve hate for just talking about Mary for one second, even if they had been defending her, they get sent hate.
3. Well, yeah, you are right, I can make post about how I feel different. So I did. Maybe I was being too sarcastic about it and offended you? But what do you mean by your mutuals receiving hate? Did you or your mutual interpret my posts as hate towards you? Or were there people in your ask box or DMs sending you hate?
But I must emphasize that, with the way you're phrasing this, you are making it seem like I am sending you or someone else hate, rather by private means or by my post. But the truth is I didn't tag anyone or reference anyone in specifics in my post, nor have I DMed anyone recently. You come into someone else's ask box, call me a hypocrite, and then accuse me of spreading hate I never did!
People from all sides should be allowed to discussing a character without having their opinion tossed aside as stupid because some people can't understand that you can love a character and talk about their flaws, which in many cases, people love.
4. Yeah, exactly, I 100% agree with that. I am not talking about people who love Mary but can still see her flaws, I am talking about people who are genuinely misogynistic about her (or other women characters) but passive aggressive about it, or people who are afraid to face their own misogyny. And also, valid criticism of women is definitely okay, but double standards in criticising male and female characters isn't okay. That's the entire point of my post. And you seem to be missing it.
@tacitusk1llwhore made an excellent post about how misogyny affects criticism of female characters, which I can't agree with more. In a way it was what inspired me to write my post, because it reminded me of the posts I saw some time ago. "It makes reading valid criticisms of these characters weird and makes you look for underlying messages of tones of misogyny." They wrote. And they are absolutely right about that! Sometimes you get used to seeing misogyny so much, you start finding it in places it never had been in. However, it also reminded me that, in contrast to its more blatant forms, sometimes misogyny comes up in more subtle ways that are harder to identify and we doubt ourselves. And this was what my posts was about.
My post was about people whose criticism of Mary entirely stems from the fact that they are jealous of her because they want to fuck Arthur. So, if you aren't those kind of people, if you are not openly being misogynistic about her, then I am NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU! (Or your mutuals)
It seems that you are projecting your own fear of being criticized for your opinions onto my words, and apparently, you and your mutuals' past experience of being hated on, which ISN'T. RELATED. TO. ME!
5. Were you talking about me again in another person's ask box as an anon? This is just flat out creepy. Please stop this kind of behavior. It is very weird. I would have apologized for being too sarcastic in my post, but you were going around quoting my post, speaking ill of me behind my back instead of directly confronting me. So no.
This will be my one and only response to you anon. The only reason I am letting you take my time is because you decided to bother my friend with this bizarre ask.
I love Mary, it’s just weird that some people won’t let us discuss her actions like we do with the men.
“Y'all fall to your knees when your uwu baby sons commit literal murder, but the VERY SECOND a woman does something that is not 100% morally correct you'll go "oh she's a morally gray character... I don't hate her but I wish the people who love her will see what a complex and nuanced character she is..." AS IF the people who love her cannot see the fact that the women have their faults. As if people cannot love women DESPITE their faults!!!!”
— Most people who are discussing Mary as of recently haven’t complained about people who love her nor act like people cant ‘love women despite their faults’ and a lot of the time people are defending. And it’s ehhh a bit weird to assume that someone doesn’t love her or are taking Arthur’s side because they simply point out her flaws as a way of discussing characters the way fandoms do.
“It's one thing to be neutral about a female character, it's another thing to go "I don't hate her...but he deserves better". I've heard this sentence from IRL boy moms countless times. People will be like "they both have their faults..." and then side with the men unconditionally, which is honestly hilarious to me.”
— It’s not about Arthur deserving better than Mary because Mary is ‘bad’ or something, it’s about them both deserving happiness, which is what people often preach. I haven’t discussed Mary openly because even though she’s literally my favorite character and I love their disfunctional relationship, and I can relate because I have even been in Mary’s shoes before. It’s weird to jump to the conclusion that someone is defending or taking Arthur’s side when it isn’t even really about him, it just seems like projection.
“(And then, if a female character has no visible vices, she is usually seen as boring and flat and tossed aside in fandom discussions. But that's another story.)”
— This is just hypocritical because whenever someone discusses Mary openly, they get hate and snide remarks. If you want fandom discussions then you should not be all snarky when it happens. You don’t have to agree and ofc you can make some post talking about how you feel different, but having some of my mutuals recieve hate for just talking about Mary for one second, even if they had been defending her, they get sent hate. People from all sides should be allowed to discussing a character without having their opinion tossed aside as stupid because some people can’t understand that you can love a character and talk about their flaws, which in many cases, people love.
Firstly, why is this in my asks? This isn't about my post, this is werewolfarthurmorganenjoyers's post you are quoting. I didn't even know there was beef before this.
But either way, they still did not send hate to anyone:
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Yes they made a post about a specific comment under some post your moot apparently made, but they haven't sent hate to anyone.
Also, just a tip, DM's is the best place to solve these kinda things. Not because 'ohhh I don't want people to see' but because it is easier to talk through there rather than asks.
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palaceoftears · 1 year ago
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Oh god I just can't stand her 😭, this was truly THE character downgrade
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bunnyboy-juice · 7 months ago
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NO MORE ASSOCIATING THINGS WITH FEMMES ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE PINK!HYPERFEM FEMMES ARE GREAT AND I LOVE YOU CAMPY FEMMES WHO EMBODY PINK BUT ALSO JESUS CHRIST CAN YOU GUYS NOT GO MORE THAN ONE DAY W/O TRYING TO SHOEHORN FEMMES INTO BEING ONLY PINK UWU BABIES. I AM FEMME AS IN GRASS AS IN DIRT AS IN TREE BARK AS IN WEEDS SPROUTING THROUGH THE SIDEWALK CEMENT. FEMME AS IN GENDER NONCONFORMITY AS IN FUCK YOU MY FEMININITY IS WHAT *I* SAY IT IS. FEMME AS IN DEPTH AND DARKNESS AND WARMTH AND TERROR. FEMME AS IN CAVES. FEMME AS IN LIGHTNING. FEMME AS IN AN AMALGAMATION OF TRAITS THAT I HAVE DECIDED ARE FEMININE REGARDLESS OF WHAT SOCIETY SAYS. FUCK IS IT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!???
#personal#i am emotional yes#over the years ive had this blog I've made a few posts abt being femme#nd whether they're serious or jokey..... inevitably someone in the tags goes “ohhh yeah bc pink”#or in the case of what inspired this post: someone going “what about the pink ones” on my praying mantis post#and im just.#sick of it. im sick of femme being equated to pink and frilly girlie behaviors.#im sick of femme being equated to skirts and heels. to makeup. to skincare. to pristine nails exactly almond shaped.#im sick of ppl acting like All femmes aspire to this shit. im sick of femms being reduced to this shit.#and i love pink! i love pink! my phone theme is quite literally just black and pink all over.#im just. so tired of any expression of Femme identity being shoehorned into being a Specific type of femininity#especially as someone who DOES get dysphoric wearing skirts. wearing dresses. embodying the femme aesthetic yall are so set on making#if u guys wanna rb this i truly dont care#i just needed to scream#and this is one small thing#but the 2nd largest category of anon hate i have gotten since making this blog is str8 up homophobia from other “queer” folks#saying i cant be femme bc of how i present. calling me slurs (and using them as such) bc they cant understand femme as anything but that#my wife and i have our users in our personal discord server set as 2 different things of anon hate ive gotten#i have had OTHER FEMMES tell me i am not femme. femmes who Know im femme who still call me butch. femmes who ive corrected and been blocked#-by bc of it. the number 1 largest demographic of queerfolk who have me blocked rn is TME femmes who embody pink also#and i dont think its a coincidence at all. (and i know this bc i go to try and follow these ppl bc they get rbed on my dash & i cant)#and ik their blogs arent deleted bc some of them don't block my wife (tall. white. butch) and it cant be politics cause her and i rb#a lot of the same political shit (fuck. i think she rbs More than i do even. this is genuinely mainly a nsft blog)#and usually i don't say anything but im having a bad day so i get to be angry about this and if anyone fucking tries me i will block u#idc if we've been mutuals 4ever. im judt so tired of feeling like i am not Enough as a femme bc i dont embody this shit#im sick of this lameass lip service to he/him gnc femmes etc when the thin white 50s housewife femme is still what is preferred and loved#im sick of this lamesss lip service when y'all feel entitled to theorizing on other femmes genders bc u cant conceptualize a femme who does#wanna be hypetfeminine. im sick of it. im sick of it. im sick of it.#celebrity bun
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silusvesuius · 8 months ago
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nnnnnnnnnnnnno maa'am
#my want to draw traditionally literally split me open for the past week and leaves me literally depressed i'm so serious i can't even look -#- @ my art programs without wanting to throw up omfg should;ve never picked up those pencils#but it's ok i just needed a nap#something so relatable about them i think nelvas has something in it for everyone meanwhile eltl is secluded art museum.#it's very possible to walk around in neloth's and talvas' brains but eltl is off limits. they will NOT! get no drawings like this outta me#wtf r they thinking ........#< eltl not nelvas#something nobody on dis earth can understand ..........#talvas wants to live he likes living but neloth's presence is so strong that it overrides and deletes his will to live.#bruuuuuuuuh#i bet the feeling of neloff is in everything he does if they ever part ways he won't be able to fold clothes or anythign without wanting -#- 2 cry . for what reason . idk bc neloth once yelled at him for folding clothes like shit .what am i on rn#(talvas thoughts mode) I want this old man to hug meeee😢😢😢#NELOFF DO IT and smash him too before i do it first .#me and neloth are the same person tho so it doesn;t matter but w/e#i'm getting emotional over them right now this cannot be real#i love her .... (Skyr1m)#i opened the game for .5 minutes today to take pics of a character uight what a beautiful game.#Te/s having such extensive lore ruins the whole entire game and the franchise but whatever . skyr1m is an art piece that's just how i feel#also this might be a very hard pill to swallow for some people but t*lvas is literally a kin Vessel for young women that keep getting -#- hit on by men twice or thrice their age when they're just trying to live their life .#this feels so profound to me i need dis shit inmy discord bio right NOEW.#Talvas................................#(eyes watering) (holding palm out)#suicide //#just in case but this tag would've gone crazy with my drawings of ulfr*c from late 2022 where i drew him with slit wrists. very artsay#is it not. i didn't like neither of those drawings tho i need to revisit cus i can feel ulfr*c on a diffaraaant level#when will i run out of tags. the way you can tell i just LUH talvas look at me drawing his hair in that second pic 😑BRU#look at me also trying to replicate pencils digitally in the first.. hmmm i don't hate it#at least it soothes me and i don't have pencil withdrawal
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imagitory · 14 days ago
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Not to call anyone out because everyone's entitled to their opinion and I don't want anyone getting attacked for theirs...but I saw a pro-Calypso post on an Epic the Musical community I can't reply to that kind of sent me spiraling that asked why Beast from Beauty and the Beast gets so much less hate than Calypso does when they "did the same thing."
Now I don't know if we're talking Disney's animated classic Beauty and the Beast specifically or the OG fairy tale or whatever, but um...have we forgotten the fact that Belle chose to stay with the Beast? And that Odysseus, in contrast, had no choice in whether to end up on or stay on Calypso's island? On the contrary -- Ody not only actively wants off, but he is so unhappy at the thought he'll never get home that he tries to unalive himself at one point. Then of course if we're talking Disney's Beauty and the Beast in particular, we can point out that Belle stays because she gave her word, not because she was physically unable to leave, and she leaves the castle out of fear for her own safety after going into the West Wing and enraging the Beast ("promise or no promise"), only to take the Beast back because he saves her life and is badly hurt in the process. Then the two nurture a real friendship -- something Odysseus and Calypso never did, in all their time together -- before Beast willingly lets Belle go with no expectation that she'd return, let alone break the spell on him and the castle servants. In contrast, in Not Sorry For Loving You, Calypso doubles down on how she treated Odysseus and turns everything into a pity-party for herself. She acts like she's sorry about how she treated him, but frames her disregard for his boundaries and freedom as her "coming on too strong" without ever acknowledging that she legitimately ignored Ody's feelings and wishes at the expense of her own. She uses the abusive-partner playbook to the nth degree, attempting to invalidate any hate Odysseus might legitimately feel toward her for what she did by passive-aggressively acting like it's his fault that he didn't accept her "love" for what it was ("and if you hate me, then I'm sorry my love's too much for you"). She even gets upset about why he "won't love her too" even though she knows full well he's a married man still very in love with his wife Penelope, who Calypso has been purposefully separating him from for years. Oh yeah, and on that note, Odysseus is already romantically committed to someone else, so Calypso has even less reason to presume Ody should return her feelings. Even Beast, who is in love with a single person and also has a ticking clock over him to fall in love quickly to break the curse on him and all of his servants, loves Belle sincerely enough that he didn't get angry or resentful at the thought that she might not love him back. He doesn't try to guilt-trip her into loving him. Even though in the original Beauty and the Beast fairy tale, there are a lot more toxic elements -- such as the Beast claiming he'll die if Belle doesn't return to him -- that doesn't change the fact that Belle has some agency in her situation, with the Beast connecting emotionally with this single woman over time in a way that she comes to see him as a dear friend despite his hideous appearance. And of course just about all adaptations of the story heavily lean away from or outright subvert the original's more problematic elements because they're rightly seen as toxic.
Look -- I don't see any problem with anyone feeling pity for Calypso. With her lonely backstory and lack of knowledge of how to interact with others, it's easy to. I could even see people arguing she cared for Odysseus in her own weird way. But that doesn't change how much she disrespected Odysseus's agency and used her goddess-y powers to keep him just as trapped on her island as she was, at the expense of his and his family's happiness. I personally view Calypso as a very well-developed anti-villain for this reason -- she can claim she loved Odysseus...but if she did, she didn't know what love really is, because love at its core is about selflessness, and Calypso at her core is incredibly selfish.
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mariemariemaria · 8 months ago
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the way christopher eccleston was right about rtd lmao
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smoshingatut · 9 months ago
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I'm kinda tired of dungeon meshi fans blatantly misinterpreting Kabru's goals, motivations, and character so they can ship him with Laios...like obviously it's awesome if you enjoy Laikabu but can you nooot twist Kabru's intentions for involving himself with the guy who constantly triggers his monster trauma and pisses him off so bad he gets brain damage so that he turns into "the guy who wants to suck Laios's dick" as his entire character? I've even seen people cut off Kabru's words to make it seem like he is admiring Laios because it would disrupt that narrative
#how can you think marcille hates laios and kabru wants to fuck him that's not.......canon.....#every time I see stuff of them it’s people being like 'oh kabru loves it so much when laios reminds him of his traumatic past'#be it his eyes/monsters/or the succubus thing 'he just HAS to fuck laios'#kui was noooooot intending for kabru to be lusting after that man!!!#i love laios but come ON why dont you actually care about KABRU tooooo#for l4bru to actually work one of them would have to suppress a big part of themselves and its ALWAYS on kabru it’s so insufferable#it's just like how some people misconstrued fem!toshiro blushing about laios to be her crushing on him when it was obv the same discomfort#but it made the microaggressions even worse because of the gender difference AS WELL as the culture difference#SIGH#i prommis ryoko kui did not create kabru so he can think about sucking laioss humungous donger all day fhsdkfhskjh#L4ikabu is the worst case I’ve seen of people twisting things for their ship because it’s literally just not true…#blatant misreading of the text goes crazy!!!!#like sure they're foils but what about the actual dynamic...w8 don't think about that actually cuz yoikes lol#obviously not threatening anyone who ships them please just stop saying it's canon oh my g#pwease actually read what kabru says he lays it out really clearly and has a super interesting backstory that drives his actions 🥲#i dont expect anyone to read this because im not using a tag but if u do then...🫢😯#i dont understand y ppl like it so much when laios ignores kabru so hard KABRU DESERVES BETTER#I’ve never felt like this about any ship before wow it just makes me 🫷
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transmascutena · 11 months ago
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thinking about how akio sees his younger self in utena and wondering if there's any fondness there. doesn't change the horror of what he does to her obviously but i do wonder
#akio and utena#m#long ramble in the tags sorry:#the thing about akio is that he's so evil bit he's also so human#he has feelings. i just don't know what they are (if anything) toward his victims#he loves anthy at the very least i'm sure of that. even if he hates her too. just like she loves and hates him. the lines are blurry.#and i just. i have to wonder whether any of that extends to utena at all. we know anthy at times feels similarly about utena and dios#(and akio by extension.) the simultanious love and resentment. so it's not too unlikely i think.#like. even though he never had anything but bad intentions in getting close to her#i'm not sure it's possible to do everything he did and feel nothing#not that he has any meaningful amount of guilt or remorse for it. i don't think that.#and i obviously don't think he “loved” her in any of the ways she might have thought he did#but did he not care at all? did he not feel any kind of fondness or sympathy or just. idk. pity? for her?#whatever the case it wasn't enough to reconsider having her killed so you know. how much does that actually matter anyway#idk. i think about it a lot. how abusers are rarely entirely indifferent toward their victims#the role he's playing in her life is so fucked up but it IS a role he's playing and i wonder how much he you know... internalizes it?#how much does he believe the illusion of family that he invites her into? because akio DOES often buy into his own illusions.#(similarly i think it's possible that akio is fond of touga too. their mentor-protégé relationship is horrible and abusive#but that doesn't make it less real. you know? maybe real is the wrong word.)#when he talks in episode 25 about wanting utena and anthy closer that's obviously so he can continue to groom her#but is there something genuine there too? i don't know.#again. it obviously does not make anything he does better or even different. but it is interesting to think about to me.#on the other side of that coin does seeing his own past youth and naivete and desire to do good that he (maybe) once had#reflected back at him through her mean anything?#is there resentment there? that she is what he couldn't be? or more likely he just thinks that idealism is stupid.#either way it's something he wants to take from her. anyway ramble over.#i talk a lot about utena's feelings toward akio (familial vs romantic love and the way the two are intertwined in fucked up ways)#but not much the other way around. probably because utena is actually a sympathetic character whose feelings the show very clearly#wants you to analyze and think about.#which is... less true for akio i think. though he's still a complex character with complex motives. he's just harder to get a grasp on.
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empty-blog-for-lurking · 2 months ago
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My vld time travel au is really just- Beautiful morally grey women, who have close but concerning platonic relationship with Lance, and want Lotor dead/trying to violently murder him, not out of malice or vengeance or anything personal but simply because of pragmatic "it's for the greater good" reasons and they are sorta?? Right about it
#empty thoughts#I don't hate l*tor (the censor is just so it doesn't go in the tags)#But sometimes i'll see old posts from annoying l*tor/l*tura stans and i am like#'can we kill this guy again? I wasn't looking and missed it'#I just really need him to get his ass kicked and thoroughly by the people who hold similar ideology as him#(But are also more adept/better planner then him but that's just me being biased)#(I think my biggest problem with him is that. Till the end we really don't know why he did That™#Instead of explaining anything vee el dee just went 'oh he has a tragic past be nice to him :(' which honestly?#Pissed me off more then make me sympathetic#And so many stans who'll go 'Alura should just overlook the fact that he literally manipulated her trauma#Knowing full well that her people were still alive. While still using said people as batteries and instead get back with him#so she can be his arm candy therapist girlfriend#cause he's uwu traumatized baby' while shitting on lanc and romel only pissed me off so much more#And just- we still don't know why he did That. For all we know he really was using those alteans as capri suns#To extend his life and just made himself believe that it's for greater good so he can tell himself he's not like his dad and sleep at night#Anyway the reason why i don't talk about this au is because it's literally just a tma time travel fanfic#I want it to be less tma though.#But also i want to keep the aesthetics of horror‚ humans turned monsters‚ build up to the end of the world‚ and anti christ#And Lanc being morally grey depressed manipulative demigod who in this case swings between-#'save l*tor cause it's the right thing to do'#'save l*tor cause he's more useful alive'#'save l*tor cause last time he died his mom destroyed multiple realities while throwing a tantrum'#and 'kill l*tor yourself the moment he inevitably crosses the line'#Along with his new besties#I am not making sense it's 7:30 in the morning and i have cold
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lizzybeeee · 1 month ago
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Solavellan more like 'Sola-hell-an'
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aithusarosekiller · 11 months ago
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(If a rant about angry/whiny people hating on starchaser without evidence will bring your day down, please scroll lovely, I just want to get some thoughts out!)
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I hate to be all whingy like this again and I swear I'll try to stop sharing my thoughts on this soon but PLEASE tell me I'm not the only one who's noticed that quite often, a pretty big number of (NOT ALL) jily fans get really angry about Lily being hated and shat on by Jegulus fans but I NEVER see Jegulus fans hating on Lily/jily?? I mean I'm constantly hit with jily fans yelling about how we all hate women and hate that they're canon and erase Lily but I can name probably 1 time I've seen a Jegulus fan hate on Lily and they were an awful person outside of that too. I think they probably haven't actually seen any Jegulus content (especially past the first little layer of it) and just assume that we all hate Lily and jily but we DON'T. And it's really annoying be she obviously people see that and go 'oh my god this is awful' and spread it and then everyone thinks we're horrible and then they spread it and suddenly it's this big epidemic of 'oh my god Jegulus haters all hate Lily and think she's an incubator' when I've never seen any examples of that past like those few weirdos in 2022.
Like I used to love both ships but jily fans have just been getting more and more angry and toxic and saying that I must hate Lily and it's totally pushing me away from liking them anymore bc I don't get why we're being called misogynists and toxic when they're yelling about things almost all of us haven't done? I'm sure there are some but it's really such a minority (and I'm pretty sure most of them are 12 year olds anyway).
Also a little off topic but the 'the series wouldn't exist without jily' is such a weird argument to me too bc I literally never denied that? I never denied that they're canon and I never said that the fandom would exist without them, I just don't care about what's canon. Like I know that if I make Lily a lesbian and decide that she doesn't marry James, Harry wouldn't exist, but I don't really care about the lightning era anyway so I don't get why it's such a common argument.
Sometimes it IS misogyny and we should call that out, but not ALWAYS.
Anyway that's all, it's just getting on my nerves so much lately.
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agalychnisspranneusroseus · 3 months ago
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Man if Marcy keeps ending up with like child protection services in all these fics over her parents being slightly distant then my parents should be in JAIL
#idk if I'm wording it correctly but this goes hand in hand with some posts I#I've made abt Marcy's parents not being super great but also not being like...#like i didn't imagine them as outright abusive or deserving of losing custody over her#and people kept reblogging them and tagging them as abuse?? 😭😭#like if THAT is abuse. then what the fuck what up at my house#c'mon! her parents growing to kinda hate her because they couldn't stand her personality and failing to fulfill her emotional needs#while still always making sure she always had her material needs met#and doing their best not to blow up at her#resulting in them always acting mildly annoyed towards her#is not *really* abuse. right? like that's just how pretty much every parent feels tbh#like i've never seen a parent who genuinely likes their kids. every parent i know is either sick of them or morbidly depressed#like wondering why the hell they chose this life for themselves#some parents are just better at being optimistic and focusing on the nice parts than others#but not all have the mental fortitude to smile through the disgust and resentment they feel all the time#which tbh is an inhumane thing to ask from a person. parents are humans too and there's only so much a person can repress#i'm convinced parents like the boonchuys only exist in fiction#i just imagine Marcy's parents as being average parents who just don't always have the patience a kid like Marcy needs#like over here my parents are breaking my assistive devices and spying on me while i'm in the bathroom and I never considered that abuse#i just used to drive them insaneeeee back in the day lol#just like with friends and couples. sometimes parents and their kids aren't meant for each other y'know? and maybe that's just Marcy's case#i do know that's my case#but strangers online are here crying abuse for less#so now i'm like. hehehehe. say what now#personal
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seyaryminamoto · 1 year ago
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hello! I really like your meta about Zuko, and I'm so glad that I finally found a person who also thinks that Zuko in book 3 is a much worse person than he was in the book 1. I always thought that something was wrong with me, since literally no one sees this obvious fact for me! But I would like to ask you: What do you think about Katara in book 3? the fact is that she was my favorite character in books 1 and 2, and the way she was written in book 3 upset me a lot. it seems to me that they spoiled her character, but I can't explain why. Please share your thoughts!
Glad you've enjoyed my extensive meta on the fandom's fave, haha. I did write a lot about him, always nice to know my thoughts on the subject are still deemed relevant.
As for Katara... well, I have thoughts on her, too. My experience with her character is quite similar to yours, I'd say, because I too felt a lot better about her character in the first two seasons of the show compared with the third. I don't usually give this a ton of thought, but after your ask, I figured I'd try and figure out what exactly went down with her that made people like us feel so uncomfortable with Katara's portrayal at multiple points of Book 3...
For starters, I'll say I vibed with Katara a lot when I started the show for reasons beyond her being a great character or being written wonderfully: she could very well have been written mediocrely and I would have loved her anyway simply because I ran away from anime to ATLA in an era where anime kept shoehorning incest undertones into every sibling relationship, even in shows that didn't have that as a core subject. It happened at least twice that I can remember, I kept seeing people raving about shows where it WAS the core of it (I still do not understand the Oreimo deal, like, the minute I read that show's title I puked in my mouth and knew I'd never watch it), and I just needed... safety from that concept, I guess?
So when I went into ATLA, and the first sibling relationship you're exposed to is Sokka and Katara, two siblings who very much act like siblings? I was thriving. It was thrilling. I felt so refreshed that I think I didn't care much about the flaws of Book 1, despite my inability to sense direction for most of it, because thank the universe, it was a sibling relationship that made sense to me!
With that as an opening, I'd say that, initially, I thought Katara was fine for most of Book 1. In Book 2? She fell off the radar for me a bit simply because other characters are introduced that just appeal to me so much more than she does. I vibe better with characters like Azula, who tend to be the type of female character I just LOVE, and with characters like Toph, she's a tomboy, I was a tomboy (... was? x'D maybe I shouldn't use past tense...), so I gravitated much more towards those two by no real fault of Katara's core personality traits. Back in Book 1, there aren't as many main characters, so you don't have a lot of variety to choose faves from. It's not that strange, I think, that once the cast broadens, people's interest in certain characters can scatter too.
But then Book 3 happened, and I just couldn't enjoy Katara outside of episodes where she wasn't that important. The Katara-centric episode of Book 3 stand among my least favorite episodes of ATLA altogether, and among the least likely episodes I'd ever want to rewatch. I literally skipped over The Painted Lady in my first rewatches of the show, every bit as much as I skipped The Great Divide or Avatar Day, both of which annoy me a lot in the first two seasons. The Puppetmaster? Not even close to being an episode I could enjoy. Even the Runaway, that's supposed to be Toph-centric, ends up making me count down the minutes for it to end and I'm not even going to get started on The Southern Raiders and the absolute can of worms that episode is...
So, with all this being said, if we peel this particular cabbage open little by little...
After mulling it over, I've grown to suspect that Katara has major inconsistency issues since day one that most people don't particularly like to acknowledge, and that flew over most of our heads from the beginning of the show. She's pretty much portrayed to us as an empath, someone who has so much heart that she can't help but feel everyone's pain and suffer with them all the time. The fandom 100% acts like that's who she is (while also obsessively adultifying her unnecessarily, and forcing her into the mom!friend role, which... we'll talk about that later)
But this is also the same character who, when her brother banished Aang from the Southern Water Tribe as early as in episode 2, protested in a very particular way once Aang was gone. Which one of these statements sound more accurate to Katara's character, and a suitable protest for her to proclaim upon witnessing this injustice against Aang?
"Aang is alone! How could you send him away on his own? He could be in danger, Sokka! He's just a kid!"
"The Air Nomads are gone, Sokka! Where do you think he'll go? He doesn't have a home to go back to and you just sent him away!"
"You happy now? There goes my one chance at becoming a waterbender!"
If you ask the fandom? They'll most likely think that her reaction was either #1 or #2.
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Surprise surprise: it was actually #3
I'm not saying she didn't show empathy towards Aang while Sokka was ranting at him, because she did. I'm not saying she wasn't willing to be banished along with Aang until Sokka asks if she'd choose pretty much a total stranger over their family and tribe, because she was. She absolutely did all those things.
... So why would she focus only on how he represented her one chance at becoming a waterbender once Aang is gone?
This feels off to me. I've never particularly liked that line. And you could absolutely say that Katara has every right to be mad at losing her chance to reclaim an aspect of her culture that she cannot connect to, but the way it was framed here? It absolutely makes Katara look more selfish than she actually was. The wording is not good. The show doesn't emphasize, at this point, that bending is such a core and crucial part of their culture and that Katara feels a major responsibility in being the ONLY person in the South Pole that can keep it alive. So it just comes off as a child's tantrum. Sokka's concerns were 100% valid too, even if he went about them while being a jerk (he is, indeed, an older brother...). He wasn't even wrong in the end about how dangerous Aang was to their tribe, since Aang's mishap with Katara on the ship gives away his position to Zuko, and it results in Zuko ramming a huge ship into their home and nearly killing people in the process. But you DON'T see the show fully framing it as though Katara and Aang did something wrong -- it was an honest mistake. We know it was. Sokka is framed as unreasonable for being so paranoid even though later events in the very episode prove he wasn't.
And that's... the crux of the issue with Katara's writing. If you ask me.
There are far too many instances where Katara makes mistakes that she's not held accountable for, that she doesn't apologize for, that run against the core logic and principles of her character and they either get shrugged off or overlooked. There are far too many situations where she acts out, and is a jerk at her jerk of a brother, even unprompted on occasion, and it's supposed to just be funny. One particularly stood out to me when I revisited it a few years ago, I can't really remember what for (maybe when I was writing Jeong Jeong's arc in Gladiator and I had a look at the fishing village...?), but it's the famous flashback episode in Book 1: The Storm.
The scene in question is... humorous. Supposedly. Katara is trying to buy fruit in the market but then realizes they have no money to pay for it. Not only does Katara piss off the vendor, but the vendor actually takes her rage out on Sokka once she realizes these kids won't give her any business: he gets kicked in the rear, as the transcript's description says. No one protests the woman's violent reaction, not even Sokka. Katara most certainly doesn't do it. But that's not all there is to it: Sokka doesn't hold what happened with the fruit vendor against Katara, they have a conversation on how they have no money and no food... and Katara offers him the golden ticket solution to their problems:
"You could get a job, smart guy."
Am I too feminist for thinking it's insane that Katara expects her brother alone to get the job? That she's not saying the THREE of them should get jobs? She and Aang are BENDERS! That's an asset most people aren't likely to find in any would-be employees in the central Earth Kingdom! So... wouldn't it be logical for all of them to do it? But no, instead, Sokka alone has to get the job?
And yes, I know, Sokka is the provider, Sokka is the protector, Sokka would do ANYTHING for his sister and the people he loves: you ask the fandom, though, and that's Katara instead of him. Moments like these simply do not exist in the fandom's eyes and, if they do, they're just excusable because Sokka is boring/weird/annoying/insert-demeaning-nonsense-here and Katara is a queen who can do whatever she wants.
Then, the consequences arrive once Sokka gets a dangerous job on a fishing boat and nearly gets killed in a storm. Aang is the one who shows concern about the potential storm when the fisherman's wife brings it up: from all I can see in the transcript, there's nothing from Katara. Sokka says they told him to get a job, so that's what he's doing, and there's no manifestation of concern from either of them about maybe joining him on this fishing trip to ensure he's safe. Instead, Aang is haunted by his past and Katara goes with him when he leaves, which, yes, is very important for context on the Air Nomads and Aang's life... and yet we don't really NEED for this scene to be Katara and Aang only. It could've included Sokka too. The plot of the second half of the episode would change? Likely. They could've come up with another idea, and not shown us a Katara who doesn't show concern for her brother's safety or any remorse when her unfair demands or expectations from him could result in catastrophic outcomes :') yes, she worries about Sokka's safety once the storm hits, but there's no sign of her feeling responsible for Sokka being out in the storm at all. No apology. Which is ironic, because Zuko apologizes to Iroh in that very same episode, hence, an apology from Katara to her brother could have mirrored that side of the story well, and they REALLY loved doing Zuko-Gaang parallel scenes like that, so it would have fit perfectly! Didn't happen, though.
Point being... Katara's compassion and empathy are not absolute. It's important to keep in mind is that they don't need to be! But precisely because she falters with them in moments where she REALLY shouldn't, with people as important to her as her own brother? It becomes very difficult to believe that she's the empath the fandom is convinced she is, and that the show's narrative tries to push her as.
The real reason why her failure to show compassion to Sokka in "humorous" situations feels so unnerving isn't because she's a typical little sister who takes her brother for granted (which is a perfectly logical/believable behavior!): it's because there are no consequences for it. Maybe at some point or another there were? But I for one can't remember many instances where Katara failed Sokka and it was framed as her fault and her responsibility. Let's look at other Book 1 instances that exemplify what I mean:
She freezes him to the deck of Zuko's ship, which puts Sokka in MAJOR danger, and she just tells him to hurry up as if it weren't her fault that he's frozen in the first place. We don't even see her making efforts to thaw him out of there when she IS the waterbender so it seems logical that she should be able to help with that (and if she's too inexperienced to do it? The least she can do to help her brother out of a dangerous situation is to TRY???). But apparently it's funny that she doesn't help him when it's her fault! So this is fine!
She endangers the entire group over the waterbending scroll, which, of course, the pirates had no right to have anyway and it's reasonable that she'd want it for herself... but she antagonized a group of fully adult, dangerous, potential murderous pirates, against Sokka's constant warnings that they shouldn't pick that particular fight. As far as I can remember? Her apologies on that episode are exclusively about how she hurt Aang's feelings by being jealous over his greater talents as a bender. Basically, nothing for Sokka, no apology for not listening to him about danger, making it worse when the very final moment features Katara proudly telling her brother that she won't steal things... unless it's from pirates. So lesson not learned because it's funny, again, to never acknowledge that Sokka has a point.
She actually cares about Sokka's fate in Jet! But the thing is... the narrative doesn't frame that as Katara's fault. Because it's not. Jet made his choices and he did awful things and he captured Sokka, lied and gaslit everyone, because he had a goal to fulfill and he used Katara to make that happen. As angry and upset as Katara is, it's not exactly shown that Katara is sorry for having trusted Jet when Sokka could have ended up paying a deadly price for it. She's angry at the betrayal, even in Book 2 it's constantly framed as though Katara is upset at him as an ex-girlfriend would be upset at her ex-boyfriend for lying to her rather than, you know, being pissed at him for nearly killing her brother + an entire village. My point is, the narrative framing never holds her responsible for Jet's choices. Which, again, she's not. But she IS responsible for her own choices... and one of those choices was disregarding Sokka's warnings about Jet. THAT was her fault, and her responsibility. She jumped to conclusions and assumed that Sokka was bitter and jealous that Jet was the charming cool leader Sokka could never be. There were no apologies to Sokka over that, either.
I could go on, and on, and on. The truth is, I bring all this up to show with solid evidence that Katara's writing was always a little... unstable. Weird. Disconnected from logic in many regards, I'd say. It's not logical/compatible to tell us that this character has the BIGGEST heart of the entire cast when she fails to show that heart to none other than her own brother, who is inarguably the person who she knows best and with whom she should share the closest relationship, even as her friendship with Aang grows and thrives. That makes no sense, thematically speaking.
Is it meant to be comedic? Yes, every bit as much as Iroh sexually harassing June was done for comedy's sake. That's not an excuse for characters behaving in ways that are thematically contrary to what they're supposed to be portraying... and along with that? No excuse for them facing zero consequences for that behavior. Which is, in fact, my main issue with these flaws from Katara: I have no issue with the writing choices in the scenes I listed just now! I take issue, however, with the lack of follow-up and consequences that you can BET, 100%, would have befallen Sokka if it had been him instead of Katara acting that way. He faced consequences even for things he didn't do, for comedy's sake: he wouldn't have gotten away with disregarding Katara's safety as often as Katara did with him, no chance at all.
Ultimately, these scenes in Book 1 are kind of ignorable in the larger scheme of things (or at least, that's how the fandom has always acted). Not a lot of people take any of this as major proof of characterization for Katara. You won't see a lot of fic writers showing her acting like this. Canon, though, often would go down this route for funsies, and the comics certainly did it plenty too, that I can remember. Part of the issue here is that, as funny as it is, it also makes Katara feel stale as a character, as does the Sokka-Katara dynamic, at large, because there's no progression for it. That's probably my greatest gripe with the Great Divide, believe it or not: it fakes being an episode where Sokka and Katara are going to be confronted over their conflictive tendencies, and the ONLY potential development in that basically-filler episode SHOULD HAVE BEEN Sokka and Katara learning to be a bit more harmonious and respectful of each other? ... And that's just not what happened at all. The status quo remains exactly the same after that episode, and it continues to be like that until the end of the show.
The real reason why Sokka and Katara are deemed the healthy siblings is because, of course, compared with the other main set of siblings in the show, these two appear to get along wonderfully. But the truth is, their relationship is not as dynamic as it deserved to be. And that's part of why Book 3 ends up failing in ways Book 1 might not have, while having similar flaws: Book 1 is when you're still getting to know these kids, and that's why I find its flaws far more forgivable than anything that comes later. When there's basically no development for that connection at all, Book 3 winds up falling flat with characters like Sokka and Katara and the bond between them.
All this being said... I'm not saying that Katara is terrible in Book 1. I still stand by the fact that I really enjoyed her character in many instances of this season, there absolutely are situations where she sasses Sokka that still make me crack a smile, and genuinely humorous situations that don't paint her in a questionable light over her lack of concern for her brother's safety. Her fight to earn the right to be trained as a waterbender is deeeeeply flawed but it's not her fault, it's more the misogyny of the writers/creators that decided that a betrothal necklace from his past would make Pakku unlearn all his sexism and get over his bullshit right after beating up a girl who was fighting tooth and nail to make him acknowledge her. That he only acknowledges her because he wanted to marry her grandmother is... uh... fuckboi behavior even when he's well over 70 years of age? XD
So, yeah, Book 1 still has my favorite Katara of the entire show even though I REALLY wish she wouldn't get away with things that other characters wouldn't get a pass for (... well... other than Zuko...). I can't enjoy her as much as I enjoy other characters because I really don't like it when characters aren't held accountable for serious mistakes they made.
Moving on to Book 2, though, and leaving behind my greatest gripe with Katara's Book 1 writing (lack of direct consequences/self-reflection on her part), Book 2's biggest sin when it comes to Katara is the beginning of the "mothering" trope. I honestly did not feel motherly vibes from Katara towards anyone in Book 1. Sokka is very often the one playing the responsible role, while Aang and Katara are seeing the world, practicing their bending, doing reckless and fun things. The entire thing about Katara being the mom friend started in Book 2 when she suddenly becomes the epitome of responsibility (well... kinda) when Toph joins the group. She still does sketchy stuff with zero consequences (I'll forever complain about how ice is not cold in this show, the kids she froze to the wall may have been dicks, but freezing someone alive that way should have resulted in serious health repercussions, just as ANY case of freezing someone alive should have, ffs, be it Zuko in Book 1's finale or Azula + Katara in Book 3's...), but once Toph is part of the group, she becomes the cool girl who's "one of the boys", and now Katara is "the mom". This dynamic gets forced into the story pretty much right after Toph joins the group. And after that? It doesn't really change for the better often. There are only a handful of instances where Katara wasn't acting wholesome and comforting and kind and compassionate in Book 2 (... particularly with Sokka, ofc), but the point where her dynamics, even with Aang, start to feel motherly is definitely Book 2.
And this adds to the issue, in the end: Katara's appeal as the main girl in the show is suddenly gone because Toph is here, and she's a way more unique character that the writers definitely were having fun working with, probably more fun than they had with Katara. So they had to find a new niche for her, I'd dare guess. Thus, instead of actually building up an awesome and solid friendship between Katara and Toph, they mostly just clash and collide. Toph is basically the ONLY character who gives Katara grief and isn't framed as in the wrong for it, which is its own set of issues (namely, Toph not being challenged enough by the narrative, which stunts her character growth), but among many things, we suddenly get shown that Katara is a girly girl who likes makeup and she ropes Toph into this when nothing we've seen so far suggests that Toph would be comfortable with that. Katara pushes her into doing things because they're the "girls of the group"... and it doesn't often look like Toph's feelings on anything are important when Katara is pushing her around for whatever purpose. I'm not saying Toph hated the spa day, she certainly had fun eventually, but even when the comics made a "Katara and Toph's day out" story, where Toph got to choose what to do for once, the story devolved into Katara's show anyway, and things concluded with Toph deciding they're better off doing girly things together when they want to hang out because Katara is just too intense for the things Toph would like to do.
This isn't even in the show, but it's basically a response to Tales of Ba Sing Se to try and even out Katara and Toph's one-sided dynamic, where Katara calls the shots of their entertainment... and even then, Toph doesn't really get what she's looking for. But Katara does get that out of Toph because all she wants is a girl to do girly things with and Toph provides that in the end, no matter how much of a tomboy she may be. Toph might just want a friend who loves the things she loves, and who knows, Katara could be that person! But the story never leads her in that direction so we never see that happen. And that's why that particular friendship never really... clicked for me. Their dynamics don't really feel enjoyable to me as they were written in the show, even though they very much could have been.
That's one thing I'll always give ATLA: the character potential and synergy they captured with that cast could be absolutely incredible. Team Avatar is so iconic because they really could work well off each other. A lot of teams in other media just aren't this good (... one of my main reasons to not enjoy Voltron and drop it in season 1 was my absolute failure to find any synergy between those characters, it felt like they all hated each other and I honestly did not enjoy their dynamics in the least), but Aang, Katara and Sokka have great synergy due to their different personalities in Book 1. Same when Toph joins them in Book 2. Zuko ABSOLUTELY could have been better in the group than he was if Book 3 hadn't devolved into the Zuko Woobifying Show by the second half, where the only writing priority was making him friends with everyone, and making them all feel sorry for him and have compassion towards him. But, broken down to his core traits, Zuko's personality would have resulted in solid chemistry with everyone else's if they'd gotten off that agenda anyway! So ultimately, ATLA has a big win in this respect that a lot of TV shows would LOVE to recreate but they simply haven't struck the right kind of balance in character traits.
Hence why the way they wrote Toph and Katara's dynamics kind of feels like a betrayal to me. Those two could have been a lot of fun, they have EVERYTHING it takes to be entertaining characters with not a ton of things in common and yet building a solid friendship that hinges on their differences. I've seen a fair few examples of that kind of dynamic in other media, and it absolutely would be possible with Toph and Katara. It's really unfair that they couldn't capture their dynamics in such a way that both characters would SHINE, rather than constantly resorting to conflicts between them that never seemed to truly be resolved.
So: Toph should not be a problem for Katara. She should enhance her character and doesn't because of writing failures. One of the core failures is "mom friend Katara", of course: there's nothing inherently wrong with Katara stepping up and taking care of people she loves, but there's something very wrong with it when she's suddenly portrayed as this motherly figure when she's doing things that Sokka had been doing just fine in Book 1. Main reason why this is the case? Sokka got dumbed down to full-time class clown for whatever reason in Book 2. While he has good moments, a lot of times they went WAY overboard with making him a source of comedy this season and that, too, contributes to mom friend Katara. Since Sokka is being so meh? We even feel relieved that Katara is there to keep things together because nobody can expect the other three to do it, right? But... Sokka was doing it in Book 1. And there's no real development to explain him NOT doing it anymore once Toph joins in besides "Katara is now the mom friend and Sokka is just here to be funny". It's not organic development: it's forcing tropes that just don't fit. And while Katara's mothering doesn't feel as unpleasant as it could here, it ultimately forces a new interpretation and portrayal of her character that honestly isn't all that interesting, most of all when the other characters are constantly portrayed as "more fun" while she's just here to keep them in line.
It just isn't the same Katara we met in Book 1, and it shows in spades. Book 1 Katara would have been hyped to join Aang and Toph in chaos while Sokka screams at them to behave themselves. Book 2 Katara is the one trying to keep the other three in line, and there's genuinely zero development that led things to that stage. It's not organic storytelling. There's no growth that leads to that, and so, it feels off.
But the core problem of all these flaws in Book 1 and Book 2 is that they roll together and snowball into something far greater that then proceeds to just... disrupt everything we thought we knew or understood about Katara. We've been told she's a kind person above all else, someone who cares about people close to her, someone who embodies hope and strength and love...!
... And then Book 3 starts, and we're actually facing a Katara who shifts into a wholly different person with the speed of a whiplash that we're left not knowing who tf this is anymore.
"Mom friend Katara" absolutely comes back in Book 3, why lie? She takes care of people, she tries to provide, she tries to be nice and sweet and then also enforces discipline on Toph (particularly) when she's being irresponsible!
But the reason why The Runaway is such an unpleasant episode is because Katara's behavior is dialed up to a thousand, and the conflict between her and Toph feels WAY too similar to what it was when they were barely getting to know each other in The Chase. Why are they STILL clashing over such things? There are occasional glimpses of friendliness there in The Runaway, sure! But they're not so strong that you actually feel like that friendship supersedes their conflicts and their propensity to bicker and argue and hurt each other. Toph blatantly calls her out on her mothering and fully canonically confirms that Katara is The Mom Friend™. Where Toph is annoyed but eventually complies with doing what Katara wants to do in Tales of Ba Sing Se, this time Katara makes a huuuuuge fuss over Toph's misbehavior and her scamming Fire Nation people. And you could argue that Toph has every right to do it, or that Katara is right to be worried, just like Sokka used to worry about such things in Book 1...
But what we get is a stale dynamic that repeats the same problems we saw in Book 2, as well as Katara coming off as rather hypocritical because she, too, did dangerous shit and picked dangerous fights where she shouldn't have, and ignored everyone who told her not to do it: she gave Toph that kind of grief over things Katara was willing to do back when Toph wasn't in the group (see the pirates thing), and she will try to stop Toph from having fun on her own terms when nobody has ever tried to stop Katara from doing that in hers. Of course, any Katara advocate would read this and go "you're missing the point: Katara was sad and upset that she was being LEFT OUT! That's why she was so mad about this!" Then the irony of the matter is that this argument STILL reflects poorly on Katara. She gave her friend a tough time, called her a wild child and a crazy person, went through her personal belongings because "she could tell Toph was hiding something from her", so she fully disregarded Toph's privacy... all because she couldn't say "Wait, you guys went scamming Fire Nation people? Damn, why didn't you wait for me! I would've gone too!", and there you go, problem solved! Katara's not left out anymore!
Yes, of course, that's not how it WORKS, people can struggle to identify what they feel...!
... And now it's my turn to say that that's not the point.
The point is that Katara said and did hurtful things to her friend. Things she eventually regrets, yes, but that she didn't have to do at all. This is the same person who fed Appa a bunch of food that made it look like he was sick, all be it to keep the group from leaving the Jang Hui river village so she could go out of her way to heal the injured and sick without telling anyone what she was doing. That, too, was a choice she made with no concern regarding how the rest of her team might feel about it: was she doing something nice? Sure! But it's not fundamentally different from Toph doing whatever she wants with zero regard as to Katara's feelings on the matter. Katara KNEW she was stalling their journey and that Sokka wanted them to move on: she didn't care about his feelings or priorities, and the story eventually frames Katara as being in the right for feeling that way. Here, she's in the inverse scenario, only it's with Toph rather than Sokka, and instead of realizing that she, too, has made choices that were irresponsible/dangerous/risky and STILL went all out with them, down to fighting whoever opposed her choices? Katara just doubles down until she, again, breaches boundaries and overhears Toph and Sokka's conversation, WHICH IS ANOTHER CAN OF WORMS DUE TO THE SOUTHERN RAIDERS FOLLOW-UP...
The thing is, Katara as a mom friend is not even a good thing. It's not conducive to fun or interesting storytelling, not in Book 2, not now. It doesn't make Katara a more interesting and dynamic character. The way she's portrayed isn't so she looks tragic for taking this role, it's all about forcing these kids into tropes that don't necessarily add up to who they have been so far. Katara's mom friend status is NOT treated with any compassion. It's not handled as a sore, difficult subject outside of the ONE conversation Sokka has with Toph that Katara overhears. And it's not centered on Katara's tragedy, on how she overcompensates for her mother's absence, it's centered on Sokka accepting her as a motherly person and encouraging Toph to do the same thing. The people who saw further depth in it probably haven't looked at the script itself in a long time: you CAN see more to it, but that's not the point of the scene. That's not where it's going. And the fact that such a tragic situation is what conduces Katara to take up the mom friend role actively makes it look like... she shouldn't have it. Why would she be the mom friend if she's just overcompensating for Kya's death? If she's taking up responsibility by thinking that no one else will (a blatant lie because, again, in Book 1 there's NO SIGN of this behavior and it's Sokka who's in a role of responsibility compared to her), it suggests that EVERYONE ELSE ought to step up and stop "relying" (and Sokka very much uses that word) on Katara being the mom friend. It's not a healthy thing. It's a coping mechanism that seems to be actively damaging Katara: and the story doesn't acknowledge it that way.
So... "mom friend Katara", dialed up to a thousand in Book 3, absolutely has a connection with why her character loses its sheen by this point in the story. There's no attempt to deconstruct this coping mechanism by Katara. No indication from the rest of the team that maybe Katara should get to be a kid just like them and stop being so uptight (even though VERY often she's not that uptight but the show very much tries to pretend she is). It's Katara's initiative to do a scam, it's not Toph or Sokka or Aang who think she needs to join in on the fun, she basically inserts herself in it. So basically, those three take the route of saying "that's what she's like, we just gotta bear with it", instead of actually helping her. If we'd seen that? Mom friend Katara would actually be a fun element to witness deconstructed by the story. And I'm not blaming either Katara or the other three for this:
This is EMINENTLY a writing problem.
Mom friend Katara is not a good trope. It could be if the point was to help her break free from it. It's not. It's simply weak writing that can't handle two girls with proactive, aggressive personalities and a ton of agency, a lack of creativity in realizing how much potential there could be in making Toph and Katara the absolute best of friends. It's seriously a disservice to the two of them that this trope literally blooms over Toph joining the show and then NEVER gets resolved or chased away. And when you have characters like Sokka or Aang kind of joining the bandwagon of "yeah, Katara's a mom!" when the two of them traveled with her in Book 1 and she WASN'T that at all? It makes matters infinitely worse.
So, if you ask me? This is the first thing that makes Katara feel more unpleasant than ever before in Book 3.
The second thing is even worse.
We return to accountability, as well as to illogical flow of thought when it comes to the writing of Katara: in Book 1, we see a hopeful girl who never speaks ill of her father or betrays any manner of displeasure or distrust towards him. No sign of her being conflicted by what Hakoda is doing: the focus is entirely on Sokka's feelings on the matter once it finally comes up in Bato of the Water Tribe, and Katara is a secondary matter, if even that.
This would be fine if Hakoda hadn't come up at all as a subject throughout Books 1 and 2. If Katara had never had the potential opportunity to see her father in any of these instances and had backed out from them for bigger reasons than... plot reasons.
For reference: she's excited, just as Sokka is, when Bato says he can bring the kids to meet their dad again. They're HYPED. We see no sign of Katara being upset at Hakoda for leaving at this point. The only portrayed reason why she and Sokka decide not to go see Hakoda is because they think Aang needs them more and they decide to forgive him for hiding the map. Katara, from the get-go, is not as angry at Aang for hiding the map as Sokka is. Clearly, Sokka wants to see Hakoda far more intensely than Katara does: even so, there's no sign anywhere here that implies that Katara harbors resentment or dissatisfaction towards Hakoda.
Book 2 gives us a similar situation: Katara declines going to see Hakoda and offers to be the one who stays in Ba Sing Se so Sokka can go see Hakoda himself. Sokka is soooo thrilled and thanks her and calls her the best sister ever and Katara very much says she is, indeed, the best. Which she's allowed to, worth noting, I'm not saying her reaction to Sokka's praises was bad, it's actually funny: but what I AM saying is that she knows how much this matters to Sokka and that's why she makes the offer she does. It's also VERY convenient! Because logic dictates that, if Sokka stays behind, he realizes the Kyoshi Warriors aren't themselves far faster than Katara does (even though, to be fair, Katara didn't really have much time to realize it at all), and we wouldn't have Aang suffering over Katara's imprisonment because the one in chains would be Sokka and then Aang might just go "oh okay it's just Sokka, I can go cosmic if it's not Katara"
... yeah I'm being sarcastic I actually don't think Aang wouldn't have saved Sokka, but they very clearly had Katara stay behind first and foremost for this specific purpose...
But Katara's acknowledgement that this is a good thing for her brother makes you REALLY wonder how much of a secret grudge she was supposed to feel towards her father at this stage of the story. The truth, in my opinion? She wasn't actually supposed to resent Hakoda as she did, let alone quite so harshly.
My sister personally told me that she thought Katara's anger at Hakoda was a fine storytelling choice when I told her I didn't like it. She told me Katara herself most likely didn't realize how hurt she had been by her father's leaving, that it wasn't until she was around Hakoda again that she understood she resented him at all, and that she had a lot more pent-up rage and frustrations than she had EVER acknowledged, and they burst out frequently in Book 3. Which, you know, is one possible explanation that tries to make this whole thing more palatable. From a human standpoint? This is valid.
... From a writing point? Not so much.
A Katara who struggles to understand her heart (which... is odd, tbh. As far as they portray her, Katara tends to know exactly what she's feeling, why she's feeling it, and she acts on her emotions rather than brains more often than not) would be portrayed as confused over her own rage at Hakoda. She would not have been written as a snappy teenager who hates her dad. She would have snapped at him and then apologized by reflex, unsure of what's come over her. We would see Sokka trying to mediate between them too, probably asking Katara what's her deal, and she would have no idea how to explain it. Katara would be avoiding Hakoda, knowing she loves him, not knowing why she seems to hate him now, afraid of saying things she shouldn't. Every time she snaps at him, she should worry about what she did, she should fear for Hakoda's feelings, she should reflect on what's going on inside her heart...!
... But that doesn't happen. And that knocks SO HARD on the concept of empath/compassionate Katara that it basically turns her into a whole different person.
As I've said countless times so far: it's not about Katara being perfect. I don't WANT her to be perfect. But I DO want the show to acknowledge that she's not. I want the flaws to REALLY read as flaws. I want other characters to react to those mishaps on Katara's part, and I want HER to reflect on what she's doing and realize she's messing up, just as she does when she hurts Aang's feelings in the Waterbending Scroll, which is most likely the best situation where Katara actually owns up to the exact mistake she made and feels genuine, palpable, obvious remorse for it. But when you feature Katara lashing out at Hakoda, and everyone just staying quiet because "uuuuh, awkwaaaard...", it feels off. Aang asks Katara, outright, what's her problem with her dad! And Katara goes "What? What problem?" She's acting like she's not even aware of the fact that her behavior is out of place, basically gaslighting Aang into pretending that she didn't do anything rude or mean to Hakoda. Aang literally saw it with his own eyes and is the ONLY person to bring it up.
To make matters worse? Katara has been with Hakoda for WEEKS. It's not like they just crossed paths two seconds before Aang opened his eyes. The implication is that she's been behaving like this, or her behavior has been deteriorating towards Hakoda with no one worrying about it or trying to make her reason with it. for that long. Sokka didn't do anything. Hakoda just took the teenage rants and left her alone because that's what she wants. And when the one person brings up that she's not acting like herself? Katara pretends nothing's wrong and acts like everything's fine and she's not acting any differently from herself. Whether she actually is just lying to Aang or ALSO lying to herself is a matter of debate... but what it suggests is she's unwilling to confront the gravity of her choices and how she can be hurting her father with them.
This is NOT to say that Katara has no right to be angry about Hakoda abandoning her in the Tribe. She has every right to be upset and feel forsaken. Their mother died, and Hakoda left with all the men of the tribe, and Sokka was left behind, tasked to protect everyone, and Katara apparently felt responsible for the whole village too: as valid as Hakoda's quest to fight in the war might be, it's not out of this world for Katara to harbor frustrations and resentment over what happened.
What IS out of this world, and particularly, not appropriate to her character, is that her way to convey those feelings was something she gave herself to, completely, only to reason with it once Aang was missing so that the episode would conflagrate her problems with Aang and Hakoda into the same thing.
This is basically a dark expansion of what we've seen in Katara's treatment of Sokka since Book 1: where it was typically "humorous" when she was a jerk to him and paid no price for it, this time it's not humorous. This time, you're supposed to see her being a jerk and then go "aaaaw, poor dear," even if you're not supposed to get mad at Hakoda because he is very much a decent dad. The show was trying to have its cake and eat it too with this situation, because Katara DOESN'T apologize to Hakoda for being unfair to him: HAKODA APOLOGIZES TO HER. Hakoda acknowledges the pain he caused Katara and the damage his leaving has wrought upon his children by apologizing and explaining how much he missed them... but Katara does not acknowledge the pain she inflicted on her father by acting out when he wasn't doing anything wrong. Is this teenager behavior? You could chalk it down to that, but that's precisely why teenagers can be a pain in the ass! And that's very much how Katara is being portrayed if she's unwilling to acknowledge she acted out and hurt someone she loves!
Her problems and resentment towards Hakoda magically go away after that single conversation. After this? She loves him. No hard feelings left. If her problems with Hakoda were this deep and difficult to navigate and work through, either she bottled them up in the rest of the show and stopped them from affecting her father... or she just got over it that quickly. Which would be very unrealistic because Hakoda apologizing for leaving doesn't change the damage Katara suffered through because he was gone. A single apology doesn't fix everything that people read into Katara's deep anguish in this scene and episode. And yet that's very much how the show portrays it: Katara is 100% fine in every single other interaction with Hakoda she gets past the first episode of Book 3. Does that make sense? Is that good writing? No, actually: it's literally digging up a problem, making it up last minute with zero lead-up to it, where the ONLY way to read "lead-up" is to pretend that Katara always had ulterior motives to avoid going to see Hakoda, even though we NEVER were shown that she was hiding anything, something that could be VERY easily shown in the story if they'd always had this in mind. The truth is that they didn't. They made it up for this episode, forced it in there, didn't even write it right because nobody reacts to Katara's behavior reasonably except Aang, and she gets away with it without even having to apologize. That's... not good form for any character, let alone Miss Responsibility and Empathy, is it?
This is why it's such a problem that Katara acted as she did towards her father. It's not because this is an unthinkable flaw: it's because there's very much no lead-up to it, kind of like there's none with Korrasami's big reveal in LOK's finale. It's because there's no follow-up to it either. It's because we don't see Katara living up to her supposed core character traits, where she should have a realization that her choices and actions and behavior have hurt someone else, someone she cares about. None of that happens.
And I will say: it's different when it comes to her clashes with Zuko and her reactions to him in the second half of Book 3. This is basically the MAIN thing the fandom gives her grief for and I hate them for it: she has every right and reason and justification to show no empathy or compassion towards a person who, as far as she could tell, took advantage of her compassion in Ba Sing Se, of Aang's compassion frequently across Book 1, and paid them back for all of it by joining forces with Azula and showing no concern to help Aang when Azula almost killed him. I am no fan of Iroh's... but Iroh jumped in to help Katara and Aang escape, at risk of being captured. Zuko stood beside Azula and did NOTHING to help those two leave. He showed zero concern for Aang's survival. He saw his sister potentially murder someone and had ZERO REACTION. So, no offense but full offense: Katara's unwillingness to trust Zuko is JUSTIFIED. Not only is it justified? It's CORRECT. It's the only writing choice that makes sense. Sokka getting over it relatively quickly feels off to me, no matter if the Boiling Rock adventure isn't as bad as others might be. Aang not holding a grudge for too long kind of fits because it is Aang... but Katara being that mad at Zuko? That's 100% fine. It fits. It works. And anyone pretending that what I said about Hakoda applies to how she treated Zuko is just completely biased in Zuko's favor.
Katara and Zuko do not have a secret magical powerful soulmates bond in canon. Their one instance of bonding comes after multiple instances of the exact opposite thing. Katara and Sokka were 100% down for leaving Zuko to freeze to death in the North Pole, and the ONLY reason why Zuko survives is because Aang can't let that happen to him. It's AANG'S compassion that saved Zuko. Katara felt none, AND SHE DIDN'T HAVE TO FEEL ANY. Let's not forget that!
Moving on to Book 2, Katara actually makes her first offer of kindness to Zuko and Iroh in the Chase when she offers to heal Iroh after Azula's attack. Zuko's reaction is to lash out violently and yell at her to leave: who, exactly, would feel inclined to think this poor beautiful sad boy just needs love when you OFFER HIM kindness and his reaction is, in a manner of speaking "go fuck yourself I'll handle this on my own"? And it's worth bringing it up because it feels like the fandom is hilariously misled into thinking the Gaang magically knows what Zuko is up to and how he's growing and evolving, as if they were part of the audience: they're not. The last time Katara saw Zuko before Ba Sing Se is literally when Zuko refuses her help. We're also talking about Fire Nation people: Katara has every right and every reason to believe that Zuko is refusing her help, not out of personal, internal strife he's dealing with and has no idea how to handle... she very much can read this as "inferior Water Tribe peasant, you will not heal my uncle with your wretched waterbending!" Because... let's be real, that's what Zuko looked like to Katara across Book 1. She has no real reason to think he's any better or different from that until their catacombs scene...
... And he stabs her in the back and joins Azula there. Right after "bonding" with her.
So let's be VERY clear on that respect: Katara has no real reason to forgive Zuko. She has no real reason to feel empathy outside of the show constantly trying to push that she's kind and compassionate with no boundaries, even if she forsakes that kindness and compassion at random whenever the plot requires it. But her death threats to Zuko? They're completely fine by me. I'd be pissed if she had acted any differently, and if anything I hate how easy Zuko had it to befriend everyone but Katara.
... Not to say I'm happy with how he befriended Katara either, but anyway...
As this isn't Zuko meta, we're not going to get into the true core glaring issues in The Southern Raiders, because ultimately, that episode paints Zuko in a disgusting light that his fans are constantly gaslighting themselves about. He was not beinga heroic good dude helping someone he connected profoundly with. His behavior leaves so much to be desired and proves he hasn't unlearned a lot of toxic things he had internalized. He didn't unlearn them in this episode, either. But the GREATEST sin Zuko commits in this episode, without a doubt, is bringing Katara on a journey that ultimately did NOTHING for her. The only person benefitting from it was Zuko himself. I've seen people pretend that Katara finally found closure: she did not do such thing. She learned what kind of scum killed her mother, but she did not forgive him nor did she kill him. Closure would mean peace. Katara did not find peace with the situation. She's shown troubled, sitting at that pier, miserable, when Aang talks with her, she's STILL angry. That's not closure. It never was.
What it was, however, was the journey where Katara thanked Zuko and forgave him because..! Uh... because...
... Why, exactly, did Katara forgive Zuko here?
He brought her to her mother's killer: she found no closure from it. In fact, she learned the VERY disturbing truth that she hadn't realized so far: HER MOTHER DIED SPECIFICALLY TO SAVE HER. Her mother sacrificed herself for Katara's sake. She CANNOT find peace with this reality in a single afternoon because holy shit, who would? Katara KNEW her mother had died. It's not until Yon Rha tells her what happened that she understands what happened in the igloo. Katara herself, her waterbending skills, and the target she painted on her own back because of something 100% out of her control, something that is NOT evil and that the Fire Nation was hellbent on destroying, are the reasons why Kya was murdered. This is DISTURBING SHIT to deal with. And the show completely sidelines this revelation and the dark impact it could have on Katara, which, seriously, is HUGE, way worse than what happened with Hakoda, because it very much could have triggered a profound self-hatred by Katara towards her own skills because how tf could her bending cause her mother's death?! Not to mention the obvious: who was that source? Who told the Southern Raiders that there was a waterbender? Who the hell is responsible, beyond the Fire Nation, for her mother's death?
There's A LOT to unpack here.
And none of it matters because Katara is just supposed to forgive Zuko for exacerbating and worsening her trauma regarding her mother's death :') funny how that works.
This IS the point where Katara should make a display of darker sides of herself that she didn't know or understand. THIS is where Katara turning dark like Aang did after Appa vanished would make PERFECT sense. With this revelation about Kya that's beyond disturbing: not with Hakoda... and certainly not with Sokka.
The cusp of Katara's worst is, by far, her behavior with her brother in the Southern Raiders. I know a million excuses have been made for this moment: my problem is NOT the fact that she lashed out at him as she did and said something DEEPLY hurtful. It's the fact that KNOWING, SEEING HE'S IN PAIN...
... does not matter to her one bit.
Instead of a trite scene with Zuko spouting shit he does NOT mean (aka "violence wasn't the answer... but lol go kill my father okay??"), we deserved a scene with Katara and Sokka talking this out. People pretend it's fine as it is: it's not. Katara has spent the ENTIRE show disregarding her brother's feelings in a myriad of ways: this time, it was way more painful and way more hurtful and SHE KNOWS IT. It's not funny. She's not amused. She's not being a shithead little sister. She's ANGRY. She's UPSET. She has every right to be! What she DOESN'T have a right to do is hurt her brother DELIBERATELY and then escape every consequence from doing that.
There's very much no way to spin that moment into making Katara a decent sister. There's no way she remains true to her core values of being empathetic, kind and wholesome when she will insidiously, vindictively hurt her brother this way. And what I said earlier about her overhearing Toph and Sokka in the Runaway? It actually gets a follow-up in this scene: Katara telling Sokka that he didn't love Kya as she did is basically her WEAPONIZING the information that was NOT meant for her as her alleged evidence that Sokka didn't care about Kya as much as she did. As if his inability to retrieve Kya's memory was NOT a manifestation of trauma, as if it were something he's FINE with! He's not! How guilty must he feel for that? Does that matter to Katara at all? Why... nope. Because all that matters at that point is her own rage, her own feelings, her own fury. Which is, then, entirely against the character we've been told she is.
The lack of apology or follow-up to this horrible moment will never stop being one of the absolute biggest misfires in one of the WORST written episodes of this show. Yes, I said it. The more I ponder The Southern Raiders, the more I realize it's an immensely flawed speedrun to establish a friendship that simply doesn't add up. Katara and Zuko becoming friends after this journey requires some wild, absurd leaps of imagination that, boiled down to basics, don't make any sense. There's no reason for Katara to decide she'll forgive Zuko after she regains enough clarity. Why does she forgive him? Because he proved he'd rather make her happy than defend his nation anymore? Ironically, at no point does Katara show any appreciation of the fact that Zuko is setting aside his firebending supremacist attitude completely for her sake. So maybe that's not it.
Ah... is it because of how he, and he alone, was ready to help her go on this journey of revenge...?! Why, ironically, the only reason why ONLY Zuko goes on this journey is incredibly artificial and fake: this IS intended as Katara's "field trip" with Zuko. None of the field trips make sense, from a logical standpoint, as duo journeys. I've mentioned it to a few people: Sokka and Zuko could have brought Toph with them to the Boiling Rock, a metal location where her abilities would be VERY useful, used her as a false prisoner and turned her in as a captured ally of the Avatar's, who 100% will bait him into coming here to rescue her so that the Fire Nation can get him next! A cover as strong as that one might actually get them further along on that rescue attempt than what they did in canon. But this CANNOT BE... because it was Sokka's field trip with Zuko so nobody else is invited, even if they're very much not doing anything else (as is the case with Toph). Aang? Why didn't everyone join the firebending discovery with Zuko and Aang? They weren't doing ANYTHING in the Western Air Temple at the time. They very much could have gone with them too. But they don't. And that's exactly why Katara's trip works exactly as it does: it's the solo journey with Katara and Zuko, and the ONLY way to make it work is to show Sokka and Aang completely opposed to the concept of finding Yon Rha. I'm not saying I think Sokka and Aang would have been on board if they're allowed to remain IC... but they could have wanted to go on this trip with Katara regardless of not agreeing with what she wanted to do. Hell, as is OBVIOUS: Kya is Sokka's mom too. His opinions, his feelings on this subject, should matter just as much as Katara's do, and fuck anyone who pretends otherwise. These two are NOT supposed to be the well-known unhealthy siblings Zuko and Azula, who each got one parent in their corner and therefore the other parent treated them like they were worthless or a monster. Hakoda and Kya were parents to BOTH their children, and any narrative or interpretation that attempts to say that ONLY Katara's opinion on Kya matters is immediately ruled out, for me, as absolute bullshit spouted by someone not worth listening to. Point blank.
Also, the fact that Zuko USES Sokka to gain this information about the southern raiders, and then doesn't even extend the chance to Sokka to join them? When Sokka is basically his new best buddy? That... does not make sense. It basically portrays Zuko as a disloyal asshole who takes advantage of his friends for his purposes and tosses them aside, disregarding their feelings whenever it suits him.
So Sokka's treatment at the hands of this episode is just deplorable. Both Zuko and Katara are HORRIBLE to him... but Katara is our focus here, she's actively hurts Sokka and then proceeds to not care. Because that's how she has operated so far, and that's how she always will.
Hence: we have a long, long tradition of Katara not treating Sokka fairly all across the show. The reasons why it's not a fair or balanced relationship at all is because Sokka typically pays the price for being a dick to Katara: either she inflicts the punishment herself, such as when he's disrespectful in the Drill and she smacks him with the slurry, or the narrative inflicts some magical punishment instead that CONSTANTLY proves that Sokka is not allowed to be a dick without facing consequences for it. Does he ALWAYS learn the lesson? Sure he doesn't! But the consequences for it NEVER stop. He doesn't get away with being a jerk to his sister. That's forbidden. But Katara? She's allowed to get away with it every single time! And the reason why it gets worse and worse is because we went from relatively silly/comedic things, in which Katara did not apologize because "it's funny that she didn't apologize", to NOT funny things at all, such as this scene in Southern Raiders. Even just a troubled glance at Sokka, or a slight hesitation after seeing how hurt he is, would be enough for me: there's NOTHING. She doubles down and keeps charging ahead. Zero thoughts or concerns given to her brother.
If this isn't why you have issues with Katara, well, I don't know why it might be the case in your case x'D But I absolutely attest that the combination of "mom friend", "selective compassion particularly when it comes to her brother" and "absolute imperviousness to consequences for her mistakes" are the things that fully caused my initial appreciation of her character to shift into ambivalence and then into full blown dislike once I reached Book 3.
Worth noting: THIS IS A COMPLAINT ABOUT THE SHOW'S WRITING. Boiled down to basics, written by any more competent hands, I don't think Katara would have acted the way she did often, ESPECIALLY in episodes like The Awakening or The Southern Raiders. I categorically refuse to write Katara in my stories as someone who gets free passes for EVERYTHING she does. I also refuse to portray her as the mom friend, particularly in Gladiator. There's a lot of depth you can give this character! So much you can do, so much worth exploring... and canon just settled for stunting her and then only bringing her out to play in ways that make her unpleasant, not particularly bright and extremely resistant to character development even after allegedly learning lessons (see how her initial behavior around Hama, who shows red flags often, isn't all that different from how it was with Jet? There's only a handful of moments where it looks like Katara MIGHT be wary, and yet they're quickly overcome by her excitement, which Hama manipulates in her favor until she does the bloodbending reveal). So I'm NOT saying Katara had no potential... but I am saying the show itself failed her, big time, because of how she was written. A quick glance through the transcript of the Puppetmaster to confirm my memories that Katara shows no sign of concern over Hama when Sokka finds her suspicious reveals that, after Hama shows them her comb and that she's from the Southern Water Tribe, Sokka, and Sokka alone, apologizes for suspecting her of being sketchy. Nothing from Aang, even though he was part of it too. Nothing from Toph, either. And certainly nothing from Katara. Only Sokka apologizes. As usual.
So... what does this tell you? What does this tell any of us? That Katara's development is... erratic, at best. That it's not linear isn't a bad thing, but that it contradicts itself non-stop, that her core traits come and go willy-nilly as the plot demands it, that her motivations to do things (like forgiving Zuko) don't add up to her experiences or to any lead-up we've witnessed, is most certainly not good.
If I were to rewrite ATLA, the main characters I'd want to rewrite into making a lot more sense than they do, and making their arcs actually logical, are Zuko and Katara. I'd definitely add a few rewrites for Iroh, particularly to make him WAY more accountable for shit than he ever was, and to show he's not universally loved and shouldn't be, since people would have very reasonable grievances with him. I'd also rewrite a handful of things with Aang, too. Toph, full-stop, deserves a growth arc of her own beyond getting stronger and getting used to having friends. Girl has the range. They just never let her explore it. And of course, I'd change a fair few elements of Azula's writing as well. But I feel like no characters would warrant a deeper intervention than Zuko and Katara, precisely because they constantly fail to live up to all the stuff people keep pretending they're flawless exhibits of.
And this is one more issue we've got going on with Katara:
The fandom ABSOLUTELY has been unfair to Katara. A lot of people hate her for no reason. A lot of people who potentially have unexamined racism making their hearts' choices for them and they despise her just because she dared not have fully-white skin. A lot of people pick completely ridiculous things to get angry at her, such as people who HATE HER because she's "rude to Zuko". Just, fuck off. That's about the stupidest reason to hate this character and stupid reasons for that have been heard plenty.
But Katara's fans have become... reactionary. They appear think that any criticism to her character NEEDS to be fought off with "she was right tho" or "she has every reason to act this way" or "she's HUMAN she's allowed to make mistakes you heathen!! That's what a flawed character is like!"
Here's the kicker, though: if you have justifications and excuses for every little unpleasant thing Katara EVER does? You're basically taking a dump on her character yourself and saying she IS flawless.
Flaws in characters are bad things that cannot be justified. They can be funny! They can be annoying. They can be infuriating. But they're things that inconvenience other characters, that hurt them, that show they're not above or beyond doing harmful things! All of what I listed in this crazy long post are Katara's flaws. The reason why I don't like the way these flaws were handled are all the things I already have talked about: no accountability for flaws is basically saying that these flaws don't matter. No follow-up, no lead-up, means Katara is allowed to be as much of an ass as she wants to be and nobody cares: THIS IS NOT FAIR. This is not how ANY character should be written. This is the core reason why I've spent years feuding with Zuko and Iroh: they get away with shit they should NOT get away with, EVER. They're not held accountable for so much they should be. This happens to Katara too. particularly in her dynamcis with her brother. And when people see those flaws and just start listing reasons why it's actually okay? All you're doing is dehumanizing these characters to pretend everything they EVER do is fine.
Also worth noting... character flaws are the way characters grow. If a character is DEEPLY flawed, you know what kind of work you have cut out for you as a writer. If you're writing a story heavily steeped on character development? Then those flaws are VITAL to the work you have to do in order to develop these characters!
But when Zuko is unnecessarily violent and you're told "it's because his culture and family are!", you rightfully assume that as he drifts away from Fire Nation ideology, Zuko WILL grow less violent. Then, you watch how he picks an unnecessary fight with Aang in the finale because everyone's being lazy, an EXTREMELY violent fight at that, and you contrast his earlier behavior with it and... where's the difference, exactly? How did he grow or learn better if violence is STILL his immediate reaction to anything he doesn't like?
Thus, when Katara's flaws get overlooked, ignored, disregarded? What kind of development does Katara get, if none of her flaws are addressed in a way that makes it look like she's genuinely learned any lessons? At least, none of the worst, biggest, glaring flaws were addressed. None of the things that she SHOULD be troubled by and that she shouldn't be happy with herself over, especially after seeing how she hurts people with her actions. This isn't cool. This isn't a fun way to write a character. And it's so glaringly unpleasant when you can so very easily contrast this with the well-known terrible flaw Sokka displays early on: sexism! And then he gets his ass kicked by Suki and he learns to respect the Kyoshi Warriors... and we never see him displaying that particular flaw again. THAT is what growth looks like! What can we point to with Katara that remotely compares to this? That she accepted Zuko? Yeah, no, that sincerely could not count any less. Her personal arc CANNOT be about Zuko. That she got over her mom's death? She didn't. So that's not it either. That she helped Aang save the world? So her personal arc was about Aang and not herself? Was her whole role in the story to play Aang's cheerleader, then? Because if that's it... she was doing that just fine at it since day one. She's the only person who faithfully believed the Avatar would return well before Aang turned up in her life, if the first episode's introduction is to be believed.
So... what, exactly, was Katara's arc? If it's just her waterbending skills, then she's as stunted as Toph, unexplored and underdeveloped and left to just strengthen her fighting skills while Aang and Zuko and Sokka are getting full character arcs, even if very lowkey but very much effective in Sokka's case, where they develop and grow (or they should) into the men they're supposed to be to end the war! Why don't Katara and Toph get similar arcs? Why aren't they challenged on a level that actually provides them with lasting, solid, provable growth, where you can look at them where they started out and see how they ended up and conclude their journey was beautiful?
I insist... writing. Weak writing. Failures to understand/develop characters properly. And of course, lack of accountability in storytelling. I wrote that one focusing mostly on Zuko... but it's very much applicable to every character who fails to own up to the things they should and deserve to face consequences for.
Anyway... this is what I'd say about Katara atm. I'm not 100% sure this is everything because I might have overlooked some stuff that also made Katara's character kind of backfire (while I'm no Kataang hater, I 100% agree that the ship should have been written better too, and after writing them whenever I have, it's honestly kind of ridiculous how such an easy ship could get fucked over so badly by weird writing choices...). Whether you agree with these assessments or not, ultimately, there are valid reasons to feel offput by Katara and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Most of all when you DID appreciate and cherish the character once before, but her fans just jump to the conclusion that you must be a mindless hater to think she's anything but flawless (this, while claiming they love that she's flawed, then they proceed to reveal they have no idea what a flaw is...).
(final note: SORRY IT TOOK ME FOREVER TO ANSWER! Super lengthy answer to make up for it, I hope :((( sorry)
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name-doggo · 8 months ago
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One thing I really wish the FF Community would Stop doing is Removing All Nuance from the Parents in Those Stories in order to Make Them Abusive Supervillains who Never Loved their Kid.
Like... In the Four Years I've been here, and for how Small the Community really is, you'd be surprised how many Times I've seen it-
#The Most Prominent (and Worst) Example I can Give is with Alec’s Mother#Like... Yeah- She listens to Fucking Books and is a Karen basically- She's not a Good Mother#But making her into an Abusive Mother who Never Loved Alec and just wants to Control Him?? I think we read the Wrong Book Guys-#That Removes alot of the Tragedy in Lonely Freddy- The Fact that Things could've Gotten Better if they just Talked#But they can't anymore since Alec is Trapped in a Dumpster...#There's also plenty of More Examples I can Give#Devon's Mother isn’t Abusive or Homophobic- She’s a Struggling Woman who was Abused herself (Devon’s Father threw things at her)#Which in turn from that Struggle- Has made her Neglectful of Him#I can't really say much for Pete's Mom since I forgot alot of Step Closer- but making her a Comical Abusive Mother probably isn’t accurate.#I even once saw Oswald's Dad get Villainized and Like... We definitely must've read the wrong story cause the worst thing I remember him#doing is getting upset at Oswald for going Into the Pit#It's usually always the Mothers who get Villainized tho- Like... If we're going to look at their Kids with Nuance and-#- believe they could get better if their stories didn't end with Tragedy#Why can't we do the same for their Parents??#Also if you REALLY want like... an Abusive Parent to Hate- Greg's Dad is right There.#Angel's Step Dad is Pretty Abusive too from what I heard (I never read the Story)#I'm just saying- There’s no need to villainize the Parents with Actual Nuance to Comical Degrees#fazbear frights#<- Tagging it because it's something I've really grown tired of...#Oh Yeah in Case I wasn't Clear#I don't think the Ones I mentioned above are good Parents necessarily (Besides maybe Oswald's Dad)#I just Don't like when people make every single one of them Super Mega Abusive cause that like... Kinda removes the fact that you can be a-#- Bad Parent WITHOUT being Abusive or Hating their Kids?? Like... You're kinda removing alot of Gray and making things very Black and White#Ok sorry for Writing an Essay in the Tags- I just had alot to Explain
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gigantomachylesbian · 3 months ago
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Guys. I did not know before now that writing could be painfully millennial in a full prose book but the pho*nix ke*per has proven me wrong and I have to complain about it in the tags
#k talks#weird astrix is because I don't want this showing up in the tag just in case#but I NEED To complain about this book real quick. I love a magical zoo that part was fun but good lord the main character....#I get what the author was trying to do with her arc and I will say the second half of the book is better than the first but Jesus christ#I hated the main character at the start she is SO annoying. not to be mean I know the whole point is her overcoming her anxiety#but like. I swear to God every two pages was just oooh I'm so awkward I'm such an introvert I'm such an awkward scrawny turtle!!!!#like CONSTANT. even worse though she's mean about it. for like half the book she's just so incredibly judgy at her public outreach job#she literally works at a zoo and has to learn hmmm... zoos need money??? zoos are also about... educating the public??? WHATT????#also it just felt so weird because she is constantly talking about how pale and skinny and pasty and scrawny and white she is#like constantly. and her best friend is a black trans woman who CONSTANTLY coddles and supports the mc in a very maternal way#and her love interest is latina-coded I'm pretty sure and is much more confident and opinionated and is literally described as fiery once#so like. hm! Okay! interesting! Interesting stereotypes going on tbh!!!#the mc learns some lessons and gets slightly less insufferable but like. also it was SO predictable I always knew what was gonna happen nex#and the writing style... like I said above it is MILLENNIAL and not in a fun way. the word boop is used several times. the humor is awful#the main character has multiple conversations about being so uwu bottom even though there's no sex in this book??? why??#and every single character description is repeated OVER and OVER with the same two details. SO much telling basically no showing#the writing was just so... quirky. ooooh look at me I'm awkward I trip over things I can't do make-up I love sitting on the couch!!!!#like. idk. obviously a lot of people really liked this book and I SHOULD have been one of them. Sapphic romance at a magic zoo....#but the execution was just so incredibly not my thing it actively pissed me off even if I can see what the author was trying to achieve#maybe I just don't like cozy fantasy. man. there was a bit where a guy should've gotten eaten by a kelpie but didn't. so maybe too cozy#for my tastes actually. which is weird I feel like I should enjoy cozy fantasy! especially about animals!!! but maybe this was just a fluke#anyways. to be clear I am not trying to make fun of the MC for having anxiety. just the overall way her social awkwardness was WRITTEN abou#really bothered me. idk man I'm a neurotic freak as well but I try to be NICE about it. and I have the correct zoo opinions. so.
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