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"A-Cheng, come over here."

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Actually I find very fitting how women are treated in mdzs. Mdzs's world is homophobic, classicist and misogynistic. Imo Mdzs's world represents the worst of the real world, so I find very suitable that in a patriarch/misogyny society where reputation is what matter the most, women payed the consequences of men's choices. The fact that they have no agency makes their stories even more tragic (like Greek heroines) imo. I've read historical novels from a very youth age, so I am accustomed to this. (disclaimer : that doesn't mean that I am not frustrated with the narrative or our assholes as wwx wn etc... ). What makes me very upset is how fans treat mdzs's women! Wq is not a Mean Lesbian, who is just wwx's best friend. jyl is not just wwx's mom or, even worst, a badass kickass (she is ill! She can't cultivate! Madam yu would love to have a badass daughter, but she can't! She has a chronic illness!!! ). And madam yu reminds me so much of Medea but she doesn't have the same hype. These women are trapped two times : firstly by the narrative and then by fans and I find myself less tolerant towards the latter

When I saw this ask yesterday, my gut response to the comparison between Greek tragedies and MDZS was to be like "no!! it's not the same!!" But I couldn't immediately identify why I felt that way. All the works that have given me lasting brainworms are historical tragedies with mostly-male casts and moral complexity. Everything I vibe with can be traced in some way back to getting fixated on the Trojan War, MDZS/CQL included. So what's different? I have been pondering it ever since then. So thank you, anon, for making me think!

For me, I think what it comes down to is that the issues you mentioned--the classism, the homophobia, and the misogyny--aren't actually explored within the text itself. The in-universe homophobia primarily manifests itself as people saying slurs at Wangxian. There is no external pressure to enter into heterosexual unions and have children to ensure a line of succession (3/4 of the sect leaders are unmarried after the timeskip, after all), nor is there the internal conflict of unpacking internalized homophobia. Classism is examined more with JGY's whole deal, but when the only character pointing out the flaws in the status quo is the Crimes Man, it muddles the message somewhat.

As to the misogyny... with the notable exception of QS, none of the women in MDZS die for reasons that relate to in-universe inequality. YZY, A-Qing, WQ, and JYL all die making the active choice to protect someone or something. Taken individually, all of their deaths make sense. The problems is when you take them as a whole, and you realize that the mortality rate for women in the series is off the chain. Below is a list of all the named characters who show up for more than one scene in MDZS. Bolded characters live, struck-through characters die.

Wei Wuxian Jiang Yanli Jiang Cheng                 Yu Ziyuan Jiang Fengmian           Wen Qing Lan Wangji  Granny Wen Lan Xichen                   Wang Lingjiao Lan Qiren                     Madame Jin Lan Jingyi                     Qin Su Lan Sizhui                   Luo Qingyang Wen Ning                      A-Qing Wen Chao                                            Wen Ruohan                                         Wen Zhuliu Jin Zixuan Jin Ling                                               Jin Guangshan                                                Jin Zixun Jin Guangyao Nie Mingjue Nie Huaisang Xue Yang Xiao Xingchen Song Lan Su Minshan Ouyang Zizhen Sect Leader Ouyang Sect Leader Yao

That's bonkers! It's even worse if you don't count the dead characters who quote-unquote "deserved it" for murdering people, which changes the list to:

Wei Wuxian Jiang Yanli Jiang Cheng                 Yu Ziyuan Jiang Fengmian           Wen Qing Lan Wangji  Granny Wen Lan Xichen                   Madame Jin Lan Qiren                     Qin Su Lan Jingyi                     Luo Qingyang Lan Sizhui                   A-Qing Wen Ning                       Jin Zixuan Jin Ling                                               Nie Mingjue Nie Huaisang Xiao Xingchen Song Lan Ouyang Zizhen Sect Leader Ouyang Sect Leader Yao

Again, the women's deaths each make sense individually, but as a trend, it's fucking wild, and that's what bothers me. There's no actual honest-to-god plot reason why the ratio has to be this way. Why can't Lan Qiren be a strict auntie? Why can't the juniors be a mixed-gender group? Additionally, there's the matter of how the deaths are treated. NMJ's death is the entire reason for the book; JZX's memory is invoked as much as JYL's. It's not that bad things happen to the women, it's that they're unnecessarily killed off at a disproportionate amount.

ALL THAT SAID. ALL THAT SAID!! You're absolutely right about fan treatment. One would think that these interesting women who don't get to take center stage in canon (and thus have a lot left to explore!) would be a GOLDMINE, but instead they're sanded down like you said. It must be ROUGH trying to find fic about JYL in particular, because so much of what she's tagged in is just her being WWX's Gentle Soup Sister in the background. Wangxian is far and away the biggest pairing WQ's tag--not just for MDZS, but for The Untamed, where she's a much bigger character! I sense that you're more charitable towards the canons than I am, anon, but at least the canons are honest about what they're about and aren't patting themselves on the back for their super progressive inclusion of a Mean Lesbian Friend or whatever.

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Ten Year Redraw, Part II

This is the 2013 piece I really wanted to revisit, pretty much ever since I finished it. I was never happy with the rendering or the composition, and even though the text mention's Legolas' small bow, that bow is, like, stupidly small.

"Legolas turned and set an arrow to the string, though it was a long shot for his small bow. He drew, but his hand fell, and the arrow slipped to the ground. He gave a cry of dismay and fear.

...'Ai, ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'" -The Fellowship of the Ring

2023 Redraw:

I love this scene, because to me, it's the first moment things get real for Legolas. Up to this point, the journey has been no big deal for him, even on Caradhras, but now, suddenly, he's faced with the literal manifestation of nightmares, a monster that's only supposed to live in ancient battle-ballads and ghost stories. You can't sing or snark your way out of this one, smartass!

Happy New Year to one and all! May your 2024 be gentle and kind and bright!

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💙 like a fox in tall grass by notinamillionyears, starcrushedjewels (notinamillionyears)

💙 like a fox in tall grass

by notinamillionyears, starcrushedjewels (notinamillionyears)

E, WIP, 93k, Wangxian

Summary: I don’t want to be loved, Wei Ying thinks, tiredly. I want to be safe. Kay's comments: This story is very special to me for a number of reasons, one of them being that it's actually set in Moscow, which is very unusual for this fandom, where most modern stories written in English are set in America or a modern fantasy China that often feels like America with different city names. Personally, America isn't really a place for me I can get a real feeling for, because I've never been there and most I know of it comes from the news or media. Moscow has become alien to me too, but it was once a home. So, I'm reading this story with a certain nostalgia. It stands at 8/9 chapters and maybe it'll never be completed. When updating the most recent chapter, the author already warned that AO3 is now blocked in their region and they are probably going to struggle with uploading the final chapter. It's still absolutely worth reading and re-reading, beautifully and evocatively written and so painful. Heed the warnings though, because in this story, Wei Wuxian deals with severe mental health issues, suicidal ideation (and attempts) and he's not magically cured by his new neighbor's (musician Lan Wangji's) dick. It's a hard road of recovery he's on and I really enjoyed going on this journey with him. Excerpt: “Life,” read the pamphlet she’d left on his nightstand, one of those bright-orange ones with big block letters and a happy white suicidally-suburban family staring at him from the front page, “has given you a second chance. Use it well and allow yourself to feel gratitude.” That first night, getting ready for bed whilst Jiang Cheng rummaged behind his bedroom door under the pretense of insomnia, Wei Ying read the words once, then twice, for good measure. Sentences swam before his eyes, glittery and empty, like fish in a murky tank. He couldn’t fucking understand what they meant. But it didn’t really matter. Nothing really mattered, as he’d soon come to understand. That first night, with shaky hands, he pulled on a pair of cotton pajamas, swallowed his now daily dose of Valium, Paxil, Zoloft, and Thorazine, and somehow managed not to vomit on the mother and father smiling at him form the pamphlet. That first night, in so much unnecessary pain, he read the words, again and again. Life has given you a second chance. But truthfully, Wei Ying really didn’t feel like life had given him a second chance. He felt like a fox woken up in a trap.

pov wei wuxian, modern setting, modern no powers, set in russia, suicide attempt, suicidal thoughts, mental health issues, past child abuse, dysfunctional jiang family, jiang family dynamics, strangers to lovers, neighbors, drug abuse, college/university, college student wei wuxian, musician lan wangji, pianist lan wangji, dom/sub, top lan wangji/bottom wei wuxian, angst with a happy ending, angst and hurt/comfort, power dynamics, bathing/washing, caretaking, eating disorders

~*~

(Please REBLOG as a signal boost for this hard-working author if you like – or think others might like – this story.)

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Jiang Cheng with Zidian worm on a string, 2019

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brave little lion boy

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— yves olade, bloodsport

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-恋念-

I have too many favorite characters from mdzs but I must say Nie brothers are my most favs. Their arc is so heartbreaking yet it meant a lot to me to make this piece 🥺🙏  Hope you guys enjoy💖

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When I see JC and it takes me a second.

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I'll leave this here

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make me choose: wei wuxian & lan wangji or wei wuxian & wen qing 

The world is wide. There must be a place for us.

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... my house and all its rooms that echo, all the rooms I don't enter anymore.

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@howdydowdy your lyrics were inspirational, I had to cover this 😍. Please excuse my guitar playing.

Lyrics from the following post:

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A corpse dreaming of a ghost my fanart of The Untamed

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I will freely admit that The Untamed does a fair bit of whitewashing, but it does have a fair bit of complexity that was very much conveyed to me on first watch! It’s fine if you don’t care for it, but I do not agree that it takes out all the grey morality, and I really don’t agree that CQL is the source of all the simplistic takes in the fandom. Some of the dumbest shit I’ve ever read has been from novel onlys, anytime you see the tag “canon Jiang Cheng” or “novel canon Jiang Cheng” you are in for some bullshit. I talk about second flautists all the time, but in terms of taking away responsibility from Wei Wuxian for Jin Zixuan’s death, “Su She did it” is infinitely preferable to “well maybe Zixuan shouldn’t have stepped forward if he didn’t want to be brutally killed by the man he was at that moment defying his family to try to save”. Zixuan’s last words were asking WWX to come to his child’s birthday party and reunite with Yanli, leave the man alone.

Also I feel like the conversation should also include all the things the show added in? CQL!WWX believing he has some responsibility for the things his inventions were used for is a decent point. There’s a whole scene involving using the Wen Remnants as a fun spicy added element to archery games. The innocent radish doctor Wen does make Wei Wuxian more straightforwardly heroic, and I prefer the novel’s version where they’re mostly cultivators because non-innocent people also shouldn’t be tortured to death in labor camps! But again there’s that archery scene, and LWJ straight up sees the Wen as WWX is doing that jailbreak, and even WWX doesn’t do something about the treatment of the Wen until Wen Qing asks him for help. JGY overall does more crimes, and the intentional incest is stupid, but the show’s version of the first Nieyao divorce is imo more sympathetic to JGY than the faked suicide in the novel. That awful scene of JGY wanting to hold his baby nephew and JGS spitefully denying him! He also has moments like pushing Jin Ling out of the way at the temple, and his reaction to Su She’s death is heartbreaking, sobbing his name while desperately reaching for him. Also Zhu Zanjin’s dimples.

Speaking of Su She, he does more crimes in terms of murders, but he doesn’t throw his sword into the lake and or try to sacrifice Mianmian or accidentally shoot WWX. He’s not even at evil summer camp at all! That’s replaced with a scene at the Burning of the Cloud Recesses where the inner disciples are all hidden safely away in a cave while the outer disciples are left to die, and though Su She initially bravely refuses to tell Wen Xu how to get into the cave his fellow disciples are killed one by one without anyone in the cave moving to save them and he ends up the sole survivor. Sure he betrayed the Lan or whatever but honestly I was on his side. And I’m pretty sure we’re meant to be, at least somewhat! Aren’t the outer disciples also human? And yet he was left alone surrounded by the corpses of his peers who were left to die for no other reason than their birth. His grudge against the Lan is much more justified and I genuinely think we’re supposed to give LWJ and LXC a little side eye, or at least be sympathetic to Su She’s position.

Jin Guangyao doing more crimes and Nie Huaisang doing less child endangerment and CQL never bringing up Meng Shi’s corpse at all does make NHS look better than he does in the book, I will be the first to say that novel!NHS is a stone cold terrifying motherfucker! And it is really annoying and simplistic to paint NHS and JGY as the good and evil chessmasters of the story. But in the show Huaisang is left an empty shell and rejected by everyone for his actions, and the show even goes out of its way to add an extra scene where Wei Wuxian calls him out. He’s much more of a sad woobie, although I think it’s debatable how much of that is the show softening him vs. the fact that we don’t get to see what novel!NHS is feeling because MXTX doesn’t give us a look into his head and WWX doesn’t care about his inner life, leaving NHS very open to personal interpretation. But I’ve been seeing some people saying that the show takes his side and condones his actions and that’s just not the case! NHS’ last appearance in the show is a CQL-only scene where WWX indirectly calls him evil, and even if you think that they make up at some point postcanon that whole conversation was very much a warning and a threat, I don’t think that “NHS is a hero that saved the day” is remotely what they were going for here.

I could go on! But while The Untamed does simplify things, they were working under a lot of constraints, and I think there was a very clear attempt at adding in more complexity even as they censored other things. It may not have worked for you personally, and that’s fine! But the show isn’t actually just Goofus and Gallant With Zombies guys.

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wangxianfics​:

MDZS Resources & References:

OR, a collection of meta fiction for MDZS writers and enthusiasts:

Grandmaster of Demonic Timeline by chrisemrys

The timeline of Wei Wuxian’s life with some bonus, worked for my own notes and shared for understanding of my MDZS fic(s)!

MDZS Timeline by thewickling (Diviana)

A guide to MDZS’s confusing chronology that I unwrangle in my spare time.

On Character’s Ages by thewickling (Diviana)

A collection of meta on the possible ages for different characters in MDZS and what ages they would be during key events in the timeline.

Mo Dao Zu Shi Writer Reference: Novel Chapter Summaries by threerings 

A breakdown of all the chapters in the Mo Dao Zu Shi/ Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation novel, with what happens when. To help in referring back to specific scenes, because who can remember with every version happening in a different order.

Reference for Modao Zushi Writers: Chinese terms & Naming Conventions by chaoticjoy

This is to provide a reference for writers who are unfamiliar with Chinese literary conventions or terms used in canon. Hopefully someone will find this helpful.

Chinese naming basis for fanfiction writers by miqqumi

I notice a lot of people struggling with how to use Chinese names in fanfic, so I put together a guide. I hope it’s helpful to someone.

The Untamed / MDZS, resources link post, stuff I needed as a writer by AteanaLenn

Discovering and writing in a new fandom is difficult, but especially in one whose culture you know nothing about. I started writing a The Untamed fic the other day, and ended up spending hours looking up reference posts and blog posts, in order to try and avoid the most obvious mistakes at least.

Eventually, I ended with a lot of info, so here you go, useful stuff I found to understand this fandom.

MDZS Audio Drama Episode Guide by pumpkinpaix 

An episode guide for all seasons of the MDZS Audio Drama, so if you’re searching for a specific scene/quote, it’s easier to find. A breakdown of novel chapters already exists, courtesy of the wonderful threerings, but the audio drama does slightly different things and has some really beautiful changes/scripting, so this is a supplemental guide for anyone who wants to reference the AD instead of the novel for any reason.

Obviously, spoilers for the entirety of the plot.

MDZS Meta Collection on AO3

Gusu Lan Sect Rules by @my-otp-list​

Map of Sect Locations in MDZS by @lalunaticscribe

MDZS Sect Locations II. by wangxianling

MDZS Sect Locations III.

Wuxia, Xianxia & Xuanhuan Novels - Basic Terminology by @bingleycharles​

Daoist Elements and More in the Untamed/MDZS - (Part1) - Cultivation, Golden Core, etc. by @tendaysofrain​​

Daoist Elements and More in The Untamed/MDZS (Part 2) - Weapons and Magical Objects by @tendaysofrain​

Dual Cultivation & Golden Core

The story behind Wei WuXian’s name by@relatetonothing​

The story behind Lan WangJi’s name by @relatetonothing​

Some thoughts on character naming conventions & cultural significance of name-shortening by @tonyglowheart​

Characters & Multiple Names by @bingleycharles​

Forms of Address by @bingleycharles​

Honorifics Guide by @cleyra​

Chinese Wedding by @tofixit

Funerary Traditions (Clothing - Hanfu) by @hunxi-guilai​ , @aoiyuuzora

Why Wei Wuxian’s cultivation is considered demonic by xianyunmp3

And there’s MORE:

MDZS Fandom Wiki

WangXiantics: The (unofficial) Untamed Episode Guide by @trensu​

Master Chart for Familial Relationships by @drwcn​

Chinese Terms of Endearment by @besanii

tips for choosing a Chinese name for your OC when you don’t know Chinese by @fineillsignup

List of Differences Between MDZS and CQL/Untamed by @unforth