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notademon10 · 2 months ago

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UT/DR THEORY: HOW THE HUMAN SHIRTS MARK PURPOSE

.....So, have you ever wondered why Kris wears a Chara shirt ? Some of you might think it's obviously because Kris *IS* Chara. Others might say it's just a red herring or it's to signify how, one way or another, Kris is a fusion of Frisk and Chara. After all, Kris is the Dark World has Frisk's colors, as opposed to the Light World !

The thing is, Kris isn't the only human we're shown in Deltarune, we have another.

The vessel.

And interestingly enough, they have TWO stripes, like Frisk. Making a nice symetry between our vessel and Kris. That's nice !

Actually, it kinda reminds me that the vessel is our puppet, kinda how Frisk was.

Perhaps they may even be the true human hero.

Note that "Kris" isn't called by name.

And Kris seems to be in Chara's shoes.

...but there's more to this than that. Because the vessel isn't somebody we created, at least not fully.

When Gaster asks us to tell him how we feel about our vessel, he notes that it will not hear. Why should be worried about that ? Unless the vessel has a mind of it's own. A mind I very much believe we already met, in a different time.

Time and time again, they will appear.

No matter when.

No matter where.

The demon that comes when we call it's name.

Fun fact: the Vessel specifically has a max letter name of *9*, Chara's favorite number !, While your name can go up to 12 letters.

So, the vessel is the "Chara" of Deltarune. I would go as far to say that they ARE Chara. Why do I think this?, Well, I would like to bring attention towards the RED trait:

If Chara IS the demon that comes when you call it's name, then they are ALWAYS that demon. So when you name the vessel, you are ALWAYS calling Chara. The only way this can happen is if the Vessel is the Deltarune version of Chara.

But the problem is that KRIS already has Chara traits like affinity for knives, chocolate, and the focus of this post: their shirt. And the vessel has a shirt simiar to Frisk as well. . .

These two humans are mixes of Frisk and Chara in one way or another. So.... What traits are with who ?

Well, let's start with the shirts. Because there's something else I want to bring to the table. You see... There's another (?) human that is key to this point, one that most people don't like to talk about.

This THING. "chara", in the files.

Contrary to popular belief, this isn't Kris, as the skin is not similar. At least not Deltarune's incarnation of them. They are ALSO not beta Frisk, given how Frisk already had their design back when the demo released. And this is ALSO not beta Chara, given how Chara's design appeared as a mistake Temmie made early on, when she drew Frisk with one stripe.

This human is not a mistake. In all likelyhood, this was intentionally hidden for people to find in the files, much like Entry 17.

They only appear in debug as a reflection... And have a two striped shirt, like the vessel and Frisk. A literal reflection of them. I believe they are THE VESSEL, and by extention, Deltarune Chara. A younger version of them, pre-gonered. Although, they do seem to have no facial features, much like our goner. The difference in skin color and hair color can very much be explained by the possibility that Chara spent quite a while living in a cave deprived of sunlight, as well as the fact that the way they appeared in geno is supposed to look like a corpse.

This Chara has traits that Frisk has in Undertale, but which?

This becomes obvious once you realize what Frisk's role was in that game, being the player's puppet, as well as the possible hero of the underground.

We outright designed the Vessel to be whatever we choose, and to be the main character of the story, before being discarded. As I've already pointed out, there's a good chance our goner is the actual human hero, while Kris is...

What IS Kris, anyway ? They must fulfill whatever role Chara had in UT, although Kris doesn't enjoy the weird route at all, so they don't represent the LV part of Chara. So what OTHER role did Chara have, that would be connected to Frisk's role one way or another?

I think Chara is the Narrator.

(Graph made by the ever brilliant @under-lore)

I understand if this theory sounds flimsy but it's not. As we can see here, the narrator PROGRESSES along with Frisk during the entirety of the game. Why would Toby put a bunch of insults in the narration, only for him to progressivly make them more infrequent until Snowdin, if not for NarraChara?

There's also THIS, in which the narrator DIRECTLY asks Frisk if they didn't laugh, after almost ranting about laughing until tears start forming. Where did this come from, if not from an entity that is neither Frisk nor us ?

The narrator very likely isn't just a representation of the game or smth given how it still shows signs of having it's own personality, like with the fact that the text you get by hitting with hitting the dummy with higher LV stops using "you", and says things like "Feels good" or "Who cares?", as well as the show puff descriptions, ending with the narrator sarcastingly asking us what they even are, or the licorice flavored candy, etc.

A bunch of the stuff Chara shouldn't know already is a thing even without NarraChara, given that you NEED to kill Snowdrake in order for geno to continue, even if you've never encountered him. Or how Chara can still feel how many monsters are left in Waterfall....

So, for the sake of this theory, CHARA is the narrator in UT. But there's a problem, and it's that DR doesn't have a diagetic narrator. So, how DOES this role of Chara's translate into Kris...?

Well, we need to think of something more broad, thematically coherent with Frisk's original role...

What about, let's say, a STORYTELLER ?

Dark fountains are allegories for fiction, so however creates them is, in a way, a writer. With this in mind, it's clear that Kris HAS this role, not just of the creator of chapter 3's dark fountain, but as the ROARING KNIGHT themself.

Now, this DOES bring up an issue. I've said that the VESSEL is our puppet, while Kris has another role. How then, is Kris NOT our puppet ? They even parallel Spamton!

Well, Kris IS our puppet, in a sense, but not our true puppet. This is because we don't have as much control over them as you might think. We can't stop Kris from saving Susie. We can't stop Kris from taking out our SOUL. It's only through Noelle that our choices matter. Everything else has little consequence, and cannot project ourselves into them as much as we'd like.

There's also somethimg very peculiar. The upcoming Twisted Sword LOWERS the Trance effect. The same effect that Noelle had in the weird route. Why ? It doesn't seem as if Kris actually LIKED the massacre at all, so this isn't lowering THEIR trance. In the other hand, if the Vessel DOES represent the LV part of Chara, either because if Kris didn't represent it, then it would, or just because it IS Chara, then you would already have no problem with grinding darkners. Unless, the trance effect lowers for... Us?

Think about it, we are effectivly reduced to spectators in the normal route, having many of our own decisions denied, simply following what others want. Kris is a puppet to us, but we may as well be a puppet to not just Kris, but the world. Perhaps by being in Kris' body we have this effect, and the clashing wills cancel each other.

So the Vessel is Chara in the pupeteer role that Frisk had in UT, and if you couldn't guess it, I believe Kris is Frisk in the storyteller role Chara had in UT.

There's one thing I've HAVE to talk about before I end this post.

This is the description of "Important Person (Kris)'s Shirt"

How could this tie into the theory..?

Perhaps, their love could be referring to the stories they make become yours. In a way, UT becomes a story in which killing monsters is encouredged, given how the supposedly objective narrator starts going off the rails and counting how many victims are left, even if they have regrets regarding the Dreemurr family.

In Deltarune, the perspective shifts yet again, and the Cyber World starts having frozen traffic lights even before Noelle freezes her first puzzle. The weird route alters Kris' story, to the point Lancer and Roulx Kaard turn to stone much earlier than they're supposed to.

To be blunt, this is the weakest point for the theory, and has stronger connections with the puppet role anyways. Unless the pattern isn't just referring to Chara and Kris, but Frisk and the Vessel as well. We'll see.

#deltarune #undertale #theory #kris dreemurr #chara #frisk dreemurr #vessel #roaring knight #noelle holiday

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notademon10 · 2 months ago

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UT/DR THEORY: HOW THE HUMAN SHIRTS MARK PURPOSE

The thing is, Kris isn't the only human we're shown in Deltarune, we have another.

The vessel.

And interestingly enough, they have TWO stripes, like Frisk. Making a nice symetry between our vessel and Kris. That's nice !

Actually, it kinda reminds me that the vessel is our puppet, kinda how Frisk was.

Perhaps they may even be the true human hero.

Note that "Kris" isn't called by name.

And Kris seems to be in Chara's shoes.

...but there's more to this than that. Because the vessel isn't somebody we created, at least not fully.

Time and time again, they will appear.

No matter when.

No matter where.

The demon that comes when we call it's name.

Fun fact: the Vessel specifically has a max letter name of *9*, Chara's favorite number !, While your name can go up to 12 letters.

So, the vessel is the "Chara" of Deltarune. I would go as far to say that they ARE Chara. Why do I think this?, Well, I would like to bring attention towards the RED trait:

But the problem is that KRIS already has Chara traits like affinity for knives, chocolate, and the focus of this post: their shirt. And the vessel has a shirt simiar to Frisk as well. . .

These two humans are mixes of Frisk and Chara in one way or another. So.... What traits are with who ?

This THING. "chara", in the files.

This human is not a mistake. In all likelyhood, this was intentionally hidden for people to find in the files, much like Entry 17.

This Chara has traits that Frisk has in Undertale, but which?

There's two options here: either these roles are based on their respective routes, and/or their role in UT in general. Let me explain: the only route in which Chara actively appears and interacts with Undertale's world is in genocide, the route where you increase ALL of the stats that Chara represents, and the mirror narration compares you to them with "It's me, Chara", as opposed to "Still just you, Frisk" in pacifist. In geno, Chara erases the world, while in pacifist, you take the role of hero. Do you see where I'm going with this? This could parallel how the Vessel is the hero, and how Kris might just cover the world in darkness one way or another.

There's also the other option, which plays on the role the humans have throught the entire game. Frisk's role was being the player's puppet, and we outright designed the Vessel to be whatever we choose, and to be the main character of the story, before being discarded. As I've already pointed out, there's a good chance our goner is the actual human hero, while Kris is must fulfill whatever role Chara had in UT, although Kris doesn't enjoy the weird route at all, so they don't represent the LV part of Chara. So what OTHER role did Chara have, that would be connected to Frisk's role one way or another?

I think Chara is the Narrator.

(Graph made by the ever brilliant @under-lore)

So, for the sake of this theory, CHARA is the narrator in UT. But there's a problem, and it's that DR doesn't have a diagetic narrator. So, how DOES this role of Chara's translate into Kris...?

Well, we need to think of something more broad, thematically coherent with Frisk's original role...

What about, let's say, a STORYTELLER ?

Now, this DOES bring up an issue. I've said that the VESSEL is our puppet, while Kris has another role. How then, is Kris NOT our puppet ? They even parallel Spamton!

So the Vessel is Chara in the pupeteer role that Frisk had in UT, and if you couldn't guess it, I believe Kris is Frisk in the storyteller role Chara had in UT.

There's one thing I've HAVE to talk about before I end this post.

This is the description of "Important Person (Kris)'s Shirt"

How could this tie into the theory..?

Perhaps, their love could be referring to the stories they make become yours. In a way, UT no mercy becomes a story in which killing monsters is encouredged, given how the supposedly objective narrator starts going off the rails and counting how many victims are left, even if they have regrets regarding the Dreemurr family.

There's also a much simpler explanation: it is tied to their main trait: LOVE. Basically, Papyrus implies in a phone call in Hotland in elevator L3 that Love is a cartoony fiery red human heart, so that makes me think that Love is the Red trait, which as I've already mentioned is associated with being oneself. Therefore, this could be saying that what makes you you, and what makes Kris them, becomes indistinguishible. As well as stating that Kris' relationships become yours.

#deltarune #undertale #theory #kris dreemurr #chara #frisk dreemurr #vessel #roaring knight #noelle holiday

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notademon10 · 2 months ago

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What "Neo" Means and How We Can Solve Half of Deltarune With it

This theory written in collaboration with a pair of Discord friends, Mr. Dill and RedactedTimes.

Image ID: A screenshot of dialogue from the GIGA Queen battle, in which Queen says that “Focusing Into Her Blade, [Noelle] Will Create A Neo Dark Fountain”

So, what IS a “Neo Dark Fountain,” anyway?

“Neo” is an actual word, and in English, it’s a combining form- a word that only exists as part of other words, never by itself. It’s in neoplatonic, neotropical, neogene, nearctic, and more. It describes something that is new or recent in an abnormal, or alien. It’s a word taken from Greek, and it means "new" in that language, too. So, a “Neo Dark Fountain” would be a Dark Fountain that is “new,” possibly weird and strange. That’s… not a very helpful description, is it? Perhaps we could figure out more details by examining what Dark Fountains are and what they represent. Dark Fountains are geysers that turn their surroundings into fictionalized versions of themselves; nearly everything in its reach is changed- Lightners are given the abilities they’ve always wanted and fantasy outfits to match, and objects are transformed either into new items like swords, candy, and charms, or into sentient Darkners with their own thoughts and desires who serve to perpetuate the fantasy that this world creates… Usually.

They’re clearly being presented as a form of escapism; so far, every Lightner who’s entered a Dark World has greatly enjoyed their adventures within and has clearly expressed a desire for more- Kris opens their own, Noelle and Berdly almost do the same, and Susie wonders whether or not the creation of these Fountains is necessarily a bad thing just before the sealing of the Cyber World Fountain. Though, letting Darkness overtake Light is incredibly dangerous due to the fact that too many Dark Fountains existing at once will cause “The Roaring,” a cataclysmic event characterized by earthquakes, storms, and massive, enigmatic beings called Titans, who are purported to serve only to cause meaningless chaos and destruction, though I would be surprised if their existence really is that simple- but let’s not get sidetracked.

If Dark Fountains turn fiction into reality, then do Neo Dark Fountains create neo fiction? What IS “neo fiction?” New fiction? Well, that isn’t a far-fetched concept. In the real world, we’re finding more and more ways to blend reality and fiction together, with things like virtual reality and augmented reality, and computer-generated graphics becoming more and more advanced to create things that look real, but aren’t. That’s what neo fiction is- fiction that is more “real” than fiction, something that’s bridging the gap between fiction and reality and causing the line to become unclear. A Neo Dark World is not something that’s MORE abstracted than reality- that would mean that Queen wants to create a world that’s even further away from the Lightners she craves to please, which doesn’t make sense. The Neo Dark Fountains she planned to open with Noelle would instead create a world that’s LESS abstracted, one that’s closer to reality, in which Darkners are less distinguishable from Lightners and more free to do what they want. Queen would be free to create her supreme empire and enslave Lightners because she’d no longer be trapped in the confines of the Cyber World.

Will we ever explore a Neo Dark World? Well… We might have already. Castle Town could be one. It’s a world where everyone, whether Light or Dark, can live relatively ordinary lives with each other, a stable fantasy that you can enjoy for as long as you like without consequence. In a normal Dark World, Lightners are railroaded into an adventure with a clear beginning and end to the fantasy, but in the Neo Dark World, you can simply live a normal life with fantastical elements, as though you’re a character in a show. It’s closer to neo fiction than fiction, something with no clear beginning or end, something that you could mistake for reality if you stayed inside for long enough and had enough Darkners to populate it. So, what does that make Ralsei, its sole native inhabitant? He is aware of his fictional nature, knows things about the Light World and about the mechanics of the world itself, and he can travel between different Dark Worlds without turning to stone or needing to be carried around by a Lightner, so can you really say that he is as “fake” as other Darkners? He’s blurring the line between reality and fiction so that it is hard to tell which one he is- he is likely a “Neoner.”

We have also visited scattered, more disconnected fragments of the Neo Dark World in the form of the Rooms In Between, the “Egg Rooms.” The reason the Eggs remain completely constant between the Light and Dark Worlds and the reason The Man can appear in both worlds is because they’re Neo Dark in origin. The Chapter 1 Room In Between is even referred to internally as the “Chapter 1 Neo Ruins.” If you REALLY wanted to stretch things, you could even say that “In Between” is referring to its Neo state- "between fiction and reality-" but that is admittedly flimsier. The question of why they’re “Ruins” is something more difficult to answer, though easy to speculate on. They could be remnants of a Neo Dark World opened and then sealed in the past, or they could be within the same Neo Dark World as Castle Town somehow and be “ruins” of a previous civilization in some strange way.

Image ID: A look at “room_man_ch1,” or The Man’s room from Deltarune: Chapter 1 in Game Maker. The single tile used for the room’s floor is named “bg_neoruins_ch1” by the field labeled “definition,” and Game Maker lists each individual instance of its usage within the room as “Tile ######## of bg_neoruins_ch1.”

Another potential Neoner we’ve already met is Everyman, a being that appears in both the Light and Dark World in Easter Eggs and easy-to-miss cameos. You could even theorize that Ice-E is a Neoner stalking Noelle across worlds, if you choose to believe that the story of https://deltarune.com/icee/ is real. Maybe it’s even possible for a Lightner or Darkner to BECOME a Neoner, to ascend (if a Darkner) or descend (if a Lightner) to a state of existence in-between. With Undertale’s Humans and Monsters being able to absorb each others’ souls to become more powerful, some kind of plot about Darkners trying to become “real” and becoming Neoners makes lots of sense- it’s already happened with Spamton becoming Spamton NEO and trying to break his strings. It seems very likely that the further into the game we get, the closer the Secret Bosses will get to becoming truly Neo, until we must finally battle a Neoner in Chapter 7. https://deltarune.com/chair/ could be a demonstration of an object becoming a Neo object when exposed to the aura of a Neo Dark Fountain- Neo is the “darker than dark.”

Hey, actually, speaking of Spamton, remember this line from his shop dialogue?

SPEAKING OF [[Communion]], KRIS, DID YOU KNOW THAT THE KNIGHT…

Spamton’s ascension to “NEO” has plenty of religious imagery, such as his obsession with [H E A V E N], ascending with the power of a Lightner’s hopes and dreams (imbued into the NEO Robot), Spamton NEO having an appearance vaguely resembling classical angels, and him falling to the ground and losing his wings after the Delta Warriors try to help him break free from his destiny. It’s not a far-off assumption that ascension to Neonerhood in general will have religious imagery in future examples, which makes Spamton relating “Communion” and Neo to the Knight very interesting. Is the Roaring Knight a Neoner? If they were a Darkner who became a Neoner, they may want to bring the joy of reality and Neoner-hood to all Darkners or try to find a way to become a fully-fledged Lightner, while if they were a Lightner who became a Neoner, they could be trying to REPLACE the normal Light World’s reality with the more fantastical and fun Dark and/or Neodark World for either the sake of others or for their own fulfillment.

The final topic this theory will touch is a bit less connected to the initial topic- the definition of “NEO” and why it matters to Deltarune- but is still worth discussing: Why does Jevil call out “THE TRUE AND NEO CHAOS!” during his FINAL CHAOS?

Image ID: Jevil’s final attack, his “FINAL CHAOS” or “TRUE AND NEO CHAOS.” Many of Jevil’s scythes rain down from above and strike the ground, creating pillars of light.

Devil’s Knives rain from the sky one after another, creating powerful beams shooting skyward. They fall more and more rapidly as the attack progresses until the beams fill the sky, and the attack’s end is signaled by a loud tremor… Doesn’t that sound familiar? It would seem that Jevil’s FINAL CHAOS could be interpreted as a metaphor for how the Roaring begins. It’s a “True and Neo Chaos” because it’s a brand new chaos unlike anything the world has ever seen before, a chaos the likes of which have never been seen before and will never be seen again. The extra-large Devil’s Knife that accompanies the attack’s end may be trying to say that the straw that will break the camel’s back will be the opening of a second Neo Dark Fountain.

A Neo Dark Fountain can be assumed to create more and purer Darkness than a normal Dark Fountain due to the nature of the worlds it creates, like the difference between opening a normal geyser and opening a giant spout that destroys the around it due to the force with which the water rushes out. Maybe Castle Town is stable because the one who opened it (Knight or not) knows lots about the Dark World and how it works and thus knew how to open it safely?

So, to summarize all the major points:

Since "Neo" means new and Dark Fountains create fiction, the Neo Dark Fountains that Queen mentions create "neo fiction," which can be defined as fiction that's more immersive and less distinguishable from reality. They would likely be much more intense and difficult to safely open due to the density and purity of the Darkness within. Castle Town may be a Neo Dark World due to its stable, easygoing environment, and Ralsei is likely a "Neoner" due to his ability to move between worlds without issue, his uncanny knowledge of the world's mechanics, and his implied self-awareness. We will likely see Darkners trying to become "Neoners" and thus more real, primarily in the Secret Boss quest, as a logical continuation of Spamton's quest to become a real boy. Jevil's FINAL CHAOS can be interpreted as a metaphor for the Roaring, and Spamton relating the Knight to [[Communion]] may be foreshadowing that the Knight is a Neoner.

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notademon10 · 2 months ago

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Every 5000 years, the terrible Nightmare Knight returns to terrorize the world of Dreamside. And every time, a Legendary Hero will appear to fight the Nightmare Knight. Every time until now, that fight probably sounded like this. mp3

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notademon10 · 2 months ago

Audio

So cool

Megalo Strikes Back - I Miss You - Earthbound 2012 From the collaborative EarthBound fan-album I was a part of a while back. Clearly callback to the final boss theme in the original game, in both instrumentation and structure. I’m not as good at writing dissonant, alien metal, so I took a more melodic approach, integrating the low-intensity NES section into the rest of the song instead of dropping it once the guitars kick in. The melodic section is a little bit inspired by Malcolm Brown’s Rex Duodecim Angelus. I snuck in some warping, pitch-bended bass notes like the original did. See if you can hear them at 1:09-1:15. Another little musical detail that I’m proud of is that I managed to re-use the sample from the guitar solo that plays on the opening Gas Station screen of the game. The name is clearly a shout-out to Mother 2’s original subtitle: “Gyiyg Strikes Back!” It’s also a reference to Megalovania, the other boss song I made using EarthBound instrumentation for a ROM Hack I created during my junior year of High School.

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notademon10 · 4 months ago

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I'm starting to think Walt Jr isn't Walt's biological son.

Skyler has golden hair.

Walter has brown hair.

Flynn has Black hair.

Because black hair is the most dominant gene, his father must have black hair.

Thus, Walter is not Flynn's real father.

Not that he was a good one anymore.

Tl;dr

She fucked Ted

#breaking bad #walter white #walter white jr #skyler white #better call saul #el camino

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notademon10 · 4 months ago

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Breaking Bad Fact #20

Mike from Mike and Melissa is actually the same character as Mike from Breaking Bad.

#breaking bad #facts #true facts #real facts #epic facts #beautiful facts #ethereal facts #eminem #marshall mathers x reader #hold on post cancelled. why was that tag suggested to me

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notademon10 · 5 months ago

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#ralsei deltarune #undertale #deltarune #theory #vore

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notademon10 · 5 months ago

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Good

Small followup to my prior "Kris is Deltarune Frisk" thing with far less convincing arguments:

The bonus scene at the end of True Pacifist when you select "I want to stay with you" occurs in "room_end_myroom." This also applies to its sprites/tileset/backgrounds. The tileset for the room uses "bg_myhouse." The door uses "spr_myroom_doorbg." The drawer sprite is "bg_mydrawer." The lamp sprite is "bg_mylamp." The window sprite is "bg_mywindow. The bed sprite is "bg_mebed" (for some reason, it's the only odd one out).

The usage of "my" here is fairly notable and distinct from the rest of the rooms in the game. It's in first person from Frisk's perspective. The room we see is their room, in their house. The only other instance (outside of variables) where I could find something similar is "ourheart" which is used during Flowey's neutral boss fight.

In Deltarune, we have a similar case with Kris's house, although it's far more inconsistent and only really for the backgrounds of 3 rooms. Kris' room is "room_krisroom" but uses "bg_myroom." The hallway is "room_krishallway" but uses "bg_myhallway." The bathroom is "room_torbathroom" but uses bg_mybathroom. There's an exception to this that uses the "_my" in both its background and room name. The end of chapter 1 takes place in a different room named "room_myroom_dark" and uses "bg_myroom_dark."

I personally think this is a deliberate reference to the ending house cutscene of the true pacifist, especially since the SOUL removal scene at the end of chapter 1 is already a direct reference to what can occur in that scene. These events happen in Frisk/Kris' house in their room. But this could also just be meaningless or me mistaking something. Interpret it how you will.

Don't take this one seriously: Toby, or whoever helps write the newsletters, has mistaken Kris and Frisk in the past. In the UT 8th anniversary newsletter (https://toby.fangamer.com/newsletters/autumn23/), there's an illustration done by Temmie with what is clearly Frisk holding a cake, but it is instead labeled "Kris with a cake." I don't consider this one to be a valid argument, but it is funny and worth bringing up.

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notademon10 · 5 months ago

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Warning for a lot of irrelevant ranting about a specific Deltarune theory topic that has no impact on the actual plot of the game at all.

A lot of the time in Deltarune fan content, the creators will have Kris meet a Deltarune version of Frisk, usually as one of Asriel's college buddies or something.

I very much hate it (this is an exaggeration its just a thing that commonly happens that irritates me slightly and I needed a good way to start the post). Kris IS the Deltarune version of Frisk. It's been pretty much told to us since Undertale launched (specifically Version 1.001) via Clamgirl.

"My neighbor's daughter looks about your age. Her name is "Suzy." I feel like you two should be friends. Not knowing where I live is no issue. Fate finds a way. In life's grand scheme, she might be why you came here in the first place..."

What does Clamgirl keep talking about? What is the purpose of her dialogue? Foreshadowing Deltarune. Talking to her is what spawns the "Don't Forget" note in Sans' basement. She's the one who went goner mode to break the 4th wall a month before Deltarune launched. Everything she says about Frisk and Suzy foreshadows Kris and Susie.

"Suzy" and Frisk are fated to meet each other. In life's grand scheme, Frisk's fall needed to happen for them to meet Suzy. Fate is a huge theme in Deltarune, but what I want to specifically emphasize is that Kris and Susie were fated to meet due to the prophecy. They needed to meet to become heroes.

Clamgirl says Frisk and Suzy "should be friends." Just like how Kris and Susie end up as friends extremely quickly. Frisk "looks about'" the same age as Suzy, Kris and Susie are in the same class and thus around the same age.

Kris is just an anagram of Frisk minus the 'F'. Suzy is phonetically identical to Susie, just with one less letter. They are the only notable characters to have changed names inbetween universes, and they just swapped the number of letters with eachother. Something to note is that their UT versions do not have the anagrams to "Risk" and "Issue," which depending on the plot of this game, might actually be important.

This isn't even talking about all of Kris and Frisk's numerous other similarities.

They have the EXACT same skin color and hair color. They most likely have the same eye color, as either the red eyes are unnatural and caused by possession or possession doesn't affect their eye color. Chara does take over Frisk's body, but the sprite uses Frisk's color pallette, their skin color and hair color are the same. It's still Frisk's body. Thus the eyes are Frisk's eyes.

They have similar light world equipment. Both of them wear bandages. Frisk has a stick. Kris has a pencil, which is a wooden stick-like object.

Their light world item throw-away narration has them performing the same actions to items.

Kris has blue and magenta themed colors in the dark world, which is just a more vibrant version of Frisk's clothing color scheme in Undertale. Their entire dark world room that Ralsei built for them is in that color scheme. Ralsei specifically knows about Kris and Susie's interests and desires, as their rooms have those design choices things in mind.

They're both flirtatious. Frisk is incredibly apparent with their flirting, but you can flirt with multiple enemies as Kris, and Toby has stated they'd get accidentally disbarred due to flirting with a witness in an ace attorney setting.

They're both mischievous as well. Kris' pranks are described by Toriel, Rudy, and Noelle. They also can prank Noelle in an incredible amount of ways during chapter 2 and seem to enjoy doing it. Frisk has a lot of small little moments, especially during ACTs or the hangouts with Papyrus, Undyne, and Alphys. Some usually missed ones are when they flatten a cinnabun and pour sea tea under the hotel doors.

They serve the same purpose, our protagonist we control. Even how we start playing as them is like identical. We name the first fallen human ("TrueChara" sprite name) or the Vessel, but instead of playing as them, we get shoved into the jaundice gremlins instead (Frisk uses "mainchara" for their sprites, and Kris uses it in their code). Kris is just the natural progression of Frisk. The entire time, you were supposed to believe that you named Frisk, that they were your self insert into the world. That gets mirrored by Flowey, who believes Frisk to be the first fallen human (who you named). The game ends with Asriel and new/unspoiled players realizing that Frisk isn't Chara. In the next game, Kris gets that revealed immediately when they wake up, and they further that development by having their personality a lot more discernible without in-depth analysis.

No other theories talking about Kris' Undertale variant make sense. The Clamgirl lines are too strong. The only one that even comes close is Chara, and the similarities Kris and Chara share aren't as deep as they seem.

First off, things that Kris and Chara share that Frisk doesn't seem to show any opinions on. Chara has one comment about chocolate that seems to imply they like it and the weapon that represents them is a knife. Kris very much likes chocolate and knives, but does not use a knife as a weapon

The big one people like to point to Chara being the adopted child of the Dreemurrs. There are a lot of problems with this.

The first one is that, arguably, so is Frisk. Frisk shows interest in being adopted by Asgore when talking to Gerson in the TP epilogue and CAN be adopted by Toriel/call her mom.

The second is that Chara is distinctly and purposefully separated from the rest of the family every single time any of the Dreemurrs mention them. Asriel always calls them his best friend. In the winter alarm clock dialogue, Toriel talks about them starting with the phrase "a long time ago I knew someone " and, in the same conversation, talks about Asriel and calls him "my son." Asgore only mentions having a single child, a son, at the end of his battle. "I remember the day after my son died. [...] I just want to see my wife, I just want to see my child." He could have easily used the word "children" in either of these two instances, but did not. In the extended spare cutscene where Flowey does not kill Asgore, he again distinguishes Asriel as his child and Chara as someone else. "Young one, when I look at you... I'm reminded of the human that fell here long ago... [...] But I believe your freedom...... is what my son...... what ASRIEL would have wanted." It is only Gerson who calls Chara part of the family. The new home monsters said they were 'like' family specifically.

Kris meanwhile is always treated as part of the Dreemurr family. Narration, Toriel, and other characters refer to Asriel as their brother. Narration, Asgore, and other characters refer to Toriel as their mother. Narration, Toriel, and other characters call Asgore their father.

Third is that even if Chara is part of the family, they had an entirely different dynamic with UT-Asriel than Kris does with DR-Asriel. Chara and UT-Asriel are around the same age, with Chara taking the more stereotypically older sibling role. Kris is much younger than DR-Asriel, and Asriel takes the more stereotypically older sibling role. We can reasonably guess that Frisk is also younger than Flowey from a age standpoint. Even if Chara & Asriel were the same age as Frisk when they died, Flowey spent an unknown but long amount of time doing runs before Frisk fell. If Frisk is the one being talked to in the Winter Alarm Clock (extremely likely, Flowey's dialogue heavily hints at it), he directly positions himself as someone who's "grown up." Basically, Chara and Asriel are around the same age. Frisk and Kris are younger than their universe's Asriel.

My final point for this is that the relative timeline just works better if Kris is Frisk. All the monsters in DR are monsters we know exist/existed in Frisk's time. Even the Holiday family, with the daughters still notably being kids according to WAC-Asgore and DogCasino-Sans, the youngest one (Noelle) likely being Frisk's age like Suzy & MK are.

So at most Kris can be Frisk with a bit of Chara sprinkled on, but even if they are, Clamgirl confirms that the two of them are alternate universe versions of eachother. Chara either exists as the Vessel or as some random human in the world somewhere.

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notademon10 · 5 months ago

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This is a description of "Important Person's Shirt", which is just Kris' shirt.

This could mean a variety of things, like this shirt originally was from Asriel and that Kris wearing his shirt means that their love is now HIS love, and that his love is now THEIRS, whatever that means.

Other people have said that this CONFRIMATION that Kris is Chara.

Here's the thing: this is NORMAL love, not "LOVE". Chara directly states that among other things, they are LOVE. This is fact.

Wouldn't this be referring to the exact opposite concept? You know, the representation of the pacifist route, one that would better be represented by Frisk..?

Here's the thing, the Papyrus phone calls imply that the red trait is Love, and according to Ball Game, Red means that no matter how much you try, you will always be yourself.

What this description tells us is that by wearing this shirt, what makes Kris themself now belongs to you, and what makes YOU yourself now belongs to Kris.

This is basically referring to our control over them, although the fixation on love is an interesting oddity and should be further analyzed.

#deltarune #undertale #theory #chara #kris dreemurr #frisk dreemurr

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notademon10 · 7 months ago

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You know what? Good theory

PREDICTIONS: Ralsei

or, why this pile of rock is going to tear my heart out

Ralsei is a Titan.

"The unending pillar of darkness that gives my body form" dedication in Ralsei's manual matches Ralsei's description of Titans "tak[ing] form from the FOUNTAINS"

Ralsei's body completely disappears when downed

Ralsei was first completely shadowy and amorphous within his hooded cloak, then a bit more defined but still shadowy under his hat, before finally settling on a more visible form at the end of Chapter 1

Just before removing his hat, for a couple of frames Ralsei's sprite changes his paw color from black to white. As well, where Ralsei previously had black paws in various animations such as clapping or spell use, they are now white in Chapter 2. These suggest that Ralsei's shadowy appearance is not simply caused by the shade from his hat.

Ralsei's initial description is a somewhat ambiguous "Dark-World being"

Unlike normal Darkners, Ralsei does not turn to stone and can seemingly teleport between Dark Worlds at will

Ralsei is the sole denizen of Castle Town, an area seemingly abandoned or evacuated, where Titan-like eye marks and darkness covers the land

Ralsei knows a lot about the Roaring

"Do not be alarmed... I am not your enemy." is one of Ralsei's first words to Kris and Susie

Ralsei wants to redeem himself for participating in the last Roaring by stopping it from happening again.

Again: Ralsei is the sole denizen of Castle Town, an area seemingly abandoned or evacuated, where Titan-like eye marks and darkness covers the land

Ralsei’s portrait/sprite when talking about the Roaring seems haunted

Ralsei says “I...I’m sorry!!! I repent!!!” in the generally foreshadowy Poppup dialogue

However, Ralsei is an unwitting pawn in a greater villain's scheme.

Ralsei is characterized as overly keen to follow orders.

Poppup dialogue: “Ralsei moved to click on an ad with a bunny on it teaching you how to make friends... ...and accidentally clicked on an ad of a machine gun that appeared over it!” / “Ralsei tried to click on an ad with a castle on it... ...but it was actually an ad for a company that demolishes buildings with bazookas!”

Again: Poppup dialogue: “I... I didn’t mean to do it... I... I’m sorry!!! I repent!!!”

In order to fix his mistakes or save the world, Ralsei may sacrifice himself, perhaps becoming the Waterfall statue in Undertale.

Undyne states "That statue's been here forever... No one knows where it came from." This description seems similar to Gerson's explanation of the Delta Rune: "That emblem actually predates written history. The original meaning has been lost to time..."

The statue is greyscale and cracked, like Darkners such as Lancer when turned to stone

The statue has horns, like Ralsei (note that the direction of Ralsei's horns varies across sprites/portraits and concept art, sometimes being turned inward and other times outward)

The statue is associated with the song "Memory," which is associated with Asriel, who appears connected to Ralsei

The statue in Waterfall may have been part of the original Royal Memorial Fountain before Mettaton's statue replaced it

If so: Ralsei is associated with all three concepts of a "Royal Memorial Fountain," being a prince who is made from a Dark Fountain and, as "memory" is a prevalent theme in Deltarune and Ralsei sings its "Don't Forget" motif in battle, with remembrance as well

Other things:

Ralsei appears self-aware in the same way as Jevil and others.

"(SAVE and take a break anytime you want, OK?)"

"Even if it's not real, you can still have fun, right?"

"It seems like it was just a corrupted program."

There may be multiple "Ralsei"s in some way.

“They [two Ralsei plushes] are both correct. Both beautiful.” (Toby Fox on Ch 1 Livestream)

“Every Ralsei is equally beautiful.” (Toby Fox on Ch 1 Livestream)

“I just wonder what... being “Ralsei-like” even is...?”

Unknown: why does Queen not notice Ralsei?

“How Thoughtful You Two Have Come To Help Me / Kris, Susie / Which One Of You Wants To Be The New Knight”

“Hey Was There A Third Guy?????????”

“I Will Miss Each Of You / Noelle, Your Un-needed Honesty / Susie, Your Foolish Bravery / Kris, Your Chill Vibes / ... / B...Burghley?”

Unknown: why does Ralsei (seemingly) know about the ThornRing?

"..." if given

(screenshots: 1 2)

DISCLAIMER: this is a predictions post, just laying out the predictions that i have currently and my personal reasoning. eg. i am by no means the first or only person to consider titan ralsei rofl

#deltarune theory #ralsei deltarune #utdr theory #deltarune #ralsei

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notademon10 · 7 months ago

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What could Sans find out about Flowey ?

By finishing a neutral route over and over again multiple times, Flowey has some unique dialogues in which he mentions various trivia or shares his thoughts on some of the other characters.

One such character is Sans, who Flowey notably gives us a warning about.

However, the way he words that warning feels a little intriguing :

While Sans is generally a very perceptive character who is often capable of making pretty good guesses from limited information, Flowey makes it rather obvious that he is speaking from experience rather than simply making a general comment about Sans' observation skills.

But a question that isn't brought up very often is, what was it exactly that Sans would frequently "find out" about Flowey to warrant this warning ? And how ?

While the question may seem unanswerable at first due to Flowey not giving us any specifics whatsoever, there are a few details scattered throughout the game which may allow us to deduce our way towards what was most likely the intended answer.

First, we know what solution Flowey ended up settling with in order to deal with whatever that issue was : Simply avoiding Sans.

In any given timeline, Flowey took the habit of avoiding to be seen by or around Sans at any point, unless he specifically had something in mind that required him to do so. (such as in the pacifist ending) As a general rule of thumb, he would avoid Sans altogether as much as possible.

However, even with that effort on Flowey's side, a quick mention of a talking flower from Papyrus is already enough to seemingly get Sans at least a little suspicious that something may be up with that.

This is our second clue : The fact that it took Sans so little information for him to get suspicious of what Papyrus told him about a flower.

Our last clue is the few words we hear from Sans after he sees and hears Flowey at the end of the pacifist route :

In order to find out what to make of those clues, we need to introduce a fourth element : Sans' scientific background.

Luckily, none of the more complicated or speculative nuances of that side of his character are required here, all that we need is to highlight his somewhat-hidden friendship with Alphys.

She knows him well enough to call his jokes in advance :

Or here, the game more obviously points out that these two seem surprisingly friendly.

Sans tries to play it off, but it is clear they know a lot more about each other than seems at first glance.

But how much exactly ?

Well...

To go back to our main point, if one were to call Papyrus' phone in front of Alphys' lab, the conversation between the skeletons brothers would eventually deviate towards the question of wether or not Alphys is hiding dogs inside of her lab.

To which Sans answers, winking :

If it had just been this one joke, it may have been a coincidence, but the game doubles down on this exact same implication if you call Papyrus from within the lab as well, showing that this connection between Sans and Endogeny was absolutely intentional :

While the determination experiments were sorely Alphys' entreprise, it appears that Sans was at least made aware of the way they ended up playing out.

We cannot affirm with certainty how much detail exactly Sans has regarding the experiments, but if he is aware for the dogs and possibly even involved in dealing with them (as he had the dog food bag in his room), then he most definitely would also know about the vessel too. It was the main goal, after all.

This vessel had a few particularities.

First, it was a golden flower, the flower from the outside world, chosen for symbolic reasons.

But second, that specific golden flower was chosen because it was different from the rest.

It was at the center of the garden, it had grown before all the others, those were the ones mentioned by Alphys in her entries. But there was one more specificity which she omitted to bring up :

Golden flowers in Undertale are a species of flowers which has 5 petals.

But our "vessel" had a mutation, resulting in an extra 6th petal.

A design choice in part, perhaps, but one that takes a very real in-world importance within this context.

Adding to this that, from the view of the current timeline iteration, the vessel seems to have suddenly vanished one day and...

Since it is likely for Sans to have been aware of all of this, now, it makes a lot of sense that the mere idea of a new mysterious talking flower that says strange things showing up out of nowhere would immediately put him on high alert. A potential connection with the missing vessel is easy to make.

Actually, now that we have this context, even Alphys seems to make the same connection as well after hearing Papyus mentioning a talking flower just before Flowey arrives.

But most of all, it now feels incredibly clear why Flowey needs to avoid being seen by Sans so much.

His entire appearance, and particularly his obvious extra 6th petal, are all dead giveaways of his origins.

Could Sans, who is skilled enough at analysing faces to tell the difference between the face of someone that has died 9 or 10 times in a row, really miss out on such blaring evidence ?

Of course not.

Flowey might as well have written "i am the vessel" on his face with a marker as far as Sans is concerned.

Chances are that merely seeing Flowey even once would be all it takes for Sans to be practically certain that Flowey must be the former vessel.

Not only that, but given that those experiments were all about determination, the so called "resolve to change fate", Flowey would also immediately be considered extremely likely to be the anomaly, too.

This is what we see in this scene :

Not only does Sans get to see Flowey here, but the speech that Flowey makes during this scene also provides him with definitive evidence that Flowey really was the "anomaly" he had been worried about, as his psychological profile matches extremely well with the one Sans shows us to have built for the anomaly in a genocide route. But, it also shows him that Flowey has, for now at least, lost his anomalous time powers to Frisk, and is thus struggling to keep them in his "game".

This suggests that for now, Frisk actually still has the advantage, and that despite all those crazy speeches, without his reset powers, that weirdo has got nothing on them.

But this is all later on in the story.

During Flowey's earlier RESETs, being seen by Sans, even once, quickly becomes a major pain for Flowey in every timeline iteration in which it happens.

At best, he might get "pranked accross time and space" a number of times. At worst, Flowey might have no choice but to reset and start all over again on whatever he was aiming to do.

Except this time around, without letting the smiley trashbag learn ANYTHING about him.

#undertale #undertale theory #sans #flowey #undertale sans #undertale flowey #flowey undertale #papyrus #sans undertale #alphys #undertale papyrus #undertale alphys #alphys undertale #papyrus undertale

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