agameoftragedy

[agameoftragedy]

Let's imagine you're the average Westerosi peasant. And someone read to you the newest hottest tea in the realm right after king Robert died: Queen Cersei is sleeping with her brother the Kingslayer and all her kids are actually inbred bastards! Gasp! (this message is brought to you by Azor Ahai and the rightful one true king Stannis Baratheon)

But then later that day you hear a different tale: Stannis is getting cucked by his own court fool (who is crazy and will bring watery death to everyone) ! His ugly kid is the clown's bastard! Gasp! (this message is brought to you by the Lannister fascism propaganda department and queen regent Cersei Lannister)

NOW PUT ASIDE THE FACT THAT YOU KNOW THAT CERSEI IS DOING INCEST. You are a peasant who never saw these people ever. (had to redo the poll to last more than a day)

[agameoftragedy]

if GRRM said you had three things to chose. Make an existing character in the series a pov, make an existing later pov have theirs from agot, and pick another non-pov character in series. Who’d you pick?

Hi anon, I got both asks and am still a lil puzzled by the non pov thing.

The later pov being from AGOT I think I'd go for Jaime. Mel would be tempting, but I feel like GRRM didn't want us to have earlier insight into Team Dragonstone and gave us Davos for what he did want, while Jaime is around the plot enough we could just get a greater feel for what he's like pre-Brienne and the Lannister dynamics from somebody more in favour than Tyrion.

Non-pov as a pov... might be a curveball, but perhaps Missandei? She has a very interesting background, and though she's more-or-less a kid, she's very intelligent and since Dany's gone off on her own and Barristan is a very different sort of pov I'd be curious what Missandei thought and observed through the future story.

Pick another non-pov who has an effect on another character? Not sure if you mean create a character wholesale or just like make an existing one have a bigger effect. As ever, Theon Greyjoy-related characters call to me. His mum who's just faintly still in the background, Dagmer who's out there somewhere, the Captain's Daughter who has quite possibly had his baby and surely could be given a proper name at some point... I would like him to have a happy-ish ending, and it's possible for any/all of these to give him something positive for the end.

[agameoftragedy]

ive been thinking about this a bit and i feel like i have some very different feelings towards certain things and strongly disagree with the implications present in the ways i see them discussed. i do not like to simplify these themes to “vengeance/punishment bad wahh”, because it does not at all feel complete enough to convey my true feelings, or the themes of the text itself for that matter imo, but like… ofc i personally cant read things like cersei’s walk of shame, where she is punished, humiliated, and dehumanized through the one thing she was unfairly condemned for her entire life— jaime’s brutal maiming and torture where he is humiliated, fed things like horse piss which he forces down because he is so thirsty before vomiting it back up, gets repeatedly beaten unconscious, and is nearly driven to passive suicide— theon’s excessive physical and mental torment that would take too long to list that breaks him entirely— and even a man as deeply evil as vargo hoat (who is not at all three dimensional) having his hands and feet and arms and legs cut off, be cannibalized, and even be forced to eat parts of himself, causing the pov character that swore to enact brutal vengeance on him to feel ill and repulsed once he finds out— and experience much, if any, catharsis, personal feelings about these characters aside. asoiaf is a series where the author pretty often deliberately places us inside the heads of bad people that have done terrible things, who some readers may feel a certain hatred for, as they are put through torment. not to make the reader feel good and satisfied about it, but to present it as something that should not really be a thing that we revel in, and encourage us to be critical about what is even gained through what they are going through. even a morally dark antagonist without a pov like joffrey and his death was meant to have elements of tragedy. during, tyrion notes that he is a young boy with fear in his eyes that he had never seen in the eyes of his father. whether you feel a certain way about it (and i am not arguing that you are morally flawed for not sympathizing with a fictional character, this isn’t real life, i am just discussing themes that i am identifying), the goal was not really to provide us with a feel-good “justice at last!” emotion through the brutally violent death of a 13 year old boy. it makes me genuinely wonder how some ppl come away with the idea that this series is intended to be a celebration and glorification of punitive justice. i am not saying justice in general is not a huge theme, and some catharsis, especially for victims, over the death/defeat of their abusers & tormenters is present in the text as well, understandably so, because it can mean safety. take pia smiling through broken teeth when jaime has her rapist executed and presents his head to her while setting a precedent with gregor’s men. some people need to die, and deserve it, but what does that look like? who decides it? why? by contrast, the instance of jaime actually feeling good when he hangs a bunch of random outlaws reads as something more tied to his current relationship to the self and certain selfish desires at this point in his story than real justice, and it is further elaborated upon and taken apart in the book. anyway, all these questions are present and the answers are not near as simple as i often see them made out to be.

it doesn’t feel like to me that most things that can be interpreted as enactments of punitive justice or moments of karma are these epic events that should just make the reader blindly cheer and applaud, or even feel good about. there is a reason that some things go awry (like with oberyn), and it isn’t cynicism. there is nuance, and not in a way where victims are condemned for fighting back, or a pacifist ideology is idealized. there just really isn’t a glorification of brutal punishment, ‘eye for an eye’ vengeance, and the needless causing of suffering. same with a blind upholding of duty and law based around flawed feudalistic constructs. and all these things should not even be conflated. not to mention that punitive justice exists also in a way where it is connected to institutions. take the faith and organized religion for example. the whole process is interrogated: what is sin? what sins are being punished? how? why? and what are the actual effects? be it jaime’s and brienne’s conversations/interactions with a bunch of different tertiary characters in affc, or cersei’s punishment in adwd. at the end of the day, she is punished for her body, for being a woman. she does not suffer “consequences” for her actual wrongs and the suffering she causes. she doesn’t really learn anything, and it will all just make her spiral more. the whole concept of punitive justice gets focused on especially with theon’s entire identity being withered away through torture. he experiences so much torment that there comes a point where he is robbed of his mind and agency. what does the “criminal” learn? how can a person change in these circumstances? what is the point, and why should we feel good about this? he is not even really “punished” for his crimes, and certainly not by people with any moral high ground over him, he is just being brutalized. same is the case with jaime in asos: it is a bad person being brutalized by men even more vile than he is, and they are not doing it because they want to deliver any justice to his victims. also, though the maiming does kickstart crisis with him specifically, it is not the determining factor when it comes to his reformation. this story is not actually saying that people can be, and should be, tortured into becoming better people, and if they can’t the solution is to just axe them. there is nuance, sure, mercy is not something everyone is entitled to in all circumstances. sometimes “mercy” towards certain evil people will lead to the enablement of the suffering of others, even entire populations. there are certainly circumstances where compromise isn’t an option. but, again, i dont think george is ever holding back on actually interrogating the moral quandaries when it comes to identifying cycles and ending them, and he is for sure not treating every single aspect of these conflicts as black and white. even tyrion murdering his father, who purposefully does have a very ironic and humiliating death scene, which is important thematically, doesn’t end in easy and feel-good catharsis, especially for tyrion, which doesn’t equal “oh, tywin should be forgiven and spared”.

all of this is also why i do not really see how events like the fall of house lannister (first of all, we know it is gonna include the likely very brutal deaths of two innocent small children), red wedding 2.0, valonqar etc would be these grand and glorious moments of justice and pay-off, treated as just the good guys finally getting an epic W. they will very likely be filled with tragedy, so i am genuinely curious about where these expectations for this kind of catharsis come from

[agameoftragedy]

my favorite thing about theon greyjoy (books) is that he’s a fucking asshole. even after getting uber tortured for years and losing his identity and just generally being subjected to the worst shit ever, his inner monologue is still so bitchy. all that shit didn’t make him a better person it just made him quieter. he is really still out here talking like that in his head. okay theon. okay girl i see you

[agameoftragedy]

are you American?

Not personally, but like many (English-speaking) people in the world I am extremely exposed to US cultural phenomena and have had periods of hyperfixations on US fundies

Like don't get me wrong, I was raised Christian and know some lovely caring Christians. But the 'Christian family values' crowd over there... like it can sound potentially innocuous, but it seems like some of them just want to trap wives and beat kids without anyone being able to stop them or call them a piece of shit when they do. God knows they don't give a damn about child labour or even particularly CSA as long as it's someone in the 'in-group'

I think the only thing I'd see differently if I were American is I'd have known this a decade ago or longer

[agameoftragedy]

Honestly, you begin to think Americans citing 'Christian family values' is code for being legally allowed to abuse the shit out of your family members

[agameoftragedy]

I like Victarion because he's stupid

i've said before vic is a fantastically written character who is by basically any standard far from incompetent — and in fact demonstratively powerful, successful, and capable — but who, through a combination of trauma and cultural worldview, sees himself as unworthy of the position of Thinking. he very comfortably and consistently outsources his own thinking to his brothers who he has decided are suited to the task. it doesn't matter that he is a physically strong, socially influencial, militarily successful, and generally authoritative man. he has decided (not even consciously) that thinking is an activity reserved for his three brothers, while he is concerned with the practical matters of carrying out their will.

sometimes in his povs he comes dangerously close to truly experiencing a thought before shoving it back down and assuring himself that daddy euron knows best and he'll just go with that.

[agameoftragedy]

aemma and baby nyra

[agameoftragedy]

Revisiting Chapters: Eddard X, AGoT

Only one of the most memorable chapters in the series, no biggie.

This chapter contains domestic violence.

The story so far…

After quitting the Handship over the issue of assassinating Dany, Ned came out second best in a roadside knife fight with Jaime (via proxy). Recuperation is called for. So is a better government. Ned's not going to get either.

An Old Dream

It’s easy to forget how short this passage is for what it does. In my ebook version it’s a page and a half. A few hundred words. That’s it.

He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.

The phrasing here. It’s not “Ned dreamed of”; it’s an old dream coming to visit Ned as if of its own volition. Not only does it tell us that Ned’s had this dream before, it gives us the sense of events that are separate from and greater than Ned himself. As Ned recalls the names but not the faces of the men riding alongside him, we’re also reminded that this is an inherently subjective perspective of events. These are Ned’s memories, and “the years leech” at them. Dream and writing are both enhanced by the well-chosen detail. The things that stick out.

Ned remembers the red mountains of Dorne and the men he faced in front of the tower better than he does his friends. He remembers how they were prepared for battle, Arthur Dayne with his greatsword, Oswell Whent preparing his own blade, and between them the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard himself.

The dialogue here is also dreamlike in its quality. Again, the repetition from Ned does the trick. Four times he says he looked for these knights of the Kingsguard - at the Trident, at the Sack of King’s Landing, when he broke the siege at Storm’s End, when Willem Darry fled. Each time he gets a response, generating a rhythm to the passage that helps it stick in the mind.

The content of those responses, though, all emphasise where the loyalties of these men lie. The denounce Robert as “the Usurper”, Jaime as a “false brother”. Their knees do not bend easily to the victors. They even reject the Willem Darry approach we know saved Dany and Viserys.

“Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell. “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.

They’re here to fight to the death on behalf of…who do the Kingsguard fight for now, with Aerys and Rhaegar dead (as Ned’s conversation amply establishes)? The dream ends with seven men lining up against three, Ned’s memory of Ser Arthur’s blade “alive with light” and a “rush of steel and shadow”.

But the sound behind it is something more personal to Ned - Lyanna screaming his name. This is the first hint of her presence there since Ned mentioned her “bed of blood”, the only thing she gets to say in this dream-memory. It’s simple and short and it still tells us something about Lyanna and the situation.

“Eddard!” she called.

She’s not screaming in anger, wanting him to stay away. The timing of this call is when Ned’s in mortal danger, not before when he’s preparing to fight. She’s calling for Ned, whether out of concern for him or herself or both. She’s not an indifferent observer but has a preferred outcome: Ned, with her. Which makes the fight itself inevitable.

Swordfight turns to rose petals and blood against a blue sky, “blue as the eyes of death,” and Ned wakes to another call with a few words on his lips:

“I promise,” he whispered. “Lya, I promise…”

Well, that’s mysterious.

There’s a minor coda to this dream when Ned wakes and thinks on the safety of his children and the need to deal with the physical remains of his friends. Ned recalls, much more clearly, that only he and Howland Reed survived. We also get the name “the tower of joy” from said memory, which Ned describes as “bitter”. After what we’ve just learned probably happened here - the deaths of a whole bunch of Ned’s friends, the death of his sister, even the death of men Ned wishes he never had to fight - no wonder he finds this bitter. No wonder it haunts him a decade and a half later.

While Ned Was Sleeping…

From one nightmare to another - Vayon Poole’s interrupting Ned’s drugged out sleep to tell him that Robert wants to speak to him now. Literally the moment he opened his eyes. Note that the order was for Ned to come to Robert, when it sure wasn’t Robert who had a horse fall on his leg not even a week ago. Which is how long Ned’s been out! Right as war is kicking off! So how’s that going then?

Ned gets the digest from Alyn. Jaime’s fled, most likely in the direction of Casterly Rock to join up with Tywin. Everyone knows about how Catelyn arrested Tyrion. Sansa and Arya have been to visit Ned every day, and their contrasting responses to trauma, uncertainty, and injustice is noted: Sansa prays quietly, and Arya is mad.

“Whatever happens,” Ned said, “I want my daughters kept safe. I fear this is only the beginning.”

Just coming out of six days of feverish sleep, drugged, injured, forced to resume work anyway, Ned’s first order is to keep his daughters as safe as possible. He’s also sharp enough in this state to recognise that this trouble isn’t stopping. A full on war is starting to break out and Ned’s slept through it.

The urgency is apparent because Robert is already outside. Cersei too. What’s happening in the kingdom can’t and won’t wait for Ned to recover fully. It kept going while Ned was out of it. The impact of Ned’s incapacity is felt later - this is a week or so at a critical stage of events where Ned couldn’t investigate and couldn’t act. He’s seen Robert’s bastards and is circling in on Cersei’s secrets. The conditions for the war in the Riverlands are going ahead on Tywin’s terms, with Ned a week behind (which we’ll see in the next Ned chapter).

The whole affair shows us the author’s skill, in many ways. He’s knocked a key protagonist out of the plot at a vital time, a fate-changing time, but he’s worked it so it arises from logical character-based events (of course Jaime, established as hot-headed, violent, and actually caring about Tyrion would go after the husband of the woman who arrested Tyrion) and worldbuilding (it’s entirely believable that in a world with this technology level, Ned could suffer an infection and would be unconscious from fever and sedation for a while). So Ned only regains consciousness and the ability to act just as Robert heads out for his own date with destiny, and the readers are left with another what if…? while not breaking suspension of disbelief.

A Badge of Honour

The bulk of this chapter is Ned’s bedbound meeting with Robert and Cersei. Ned and Robert’s last interaction was a fight so bad Ned quit his job. Robert doesn’t mention it - he offers Ned wine and asks after his health. Who else is reminded of Cersei’s PoV in AFFC talking about the night after one of the rapes Robert inflicted on her?

The first item on the agenda is the conflict with the Lannisters. Ned immediately goes in to bat for Catelyn, taking responsibility for her actions. Robert’s mad; Cersei’s madder. Even if it’s Tyrion, Cersei’s insistent that Catelyn has no right to lay hands on “my blood”. Ned doesn’t say anything he can’t support like we think you murdered my foster father, lady, just comes back that he’s the Hand of the King and charged by Cersei’s own husband to keep the peace and enforce the king’s justice. Which, though Cersei says that Ned was the Hand, Ned indisputably was at the time he gave directions to Catelyn.

Robert’s more angry about the fighting in the street. Eight men dead. Robert’s not listening to Ned’s entirely reasonable points that Catelyn had good reason (albeit misinformed reason) to arrest Tyrion and that the fight in the street was instigated by Jaime, not Ned. Cersei says no, it was Ned and his men returning drunk from a brothel. The brothel part was confirmed by Littlefinger. Ned says he’d gone to see Robert’s daughter.

He watched the queen as he spoke; her face was still and pale, betraying nothing.

Ned’s drugged up and in pain and he’s still this sharp, to be watching his suspect even as he recounts his investigation to the king. He’s not a stupid man. He’s unlucky - and there’s the other thing, which this scene promptly reminds us of. Robert says he’s not going to make any decisions. He’s not going to let Ned pursue justice for his murdered retainers.

“Is that your notion of justice?” Ned flared. “If so, I am pleased that I am no longer your Hand.” The queen looked to her husband. “If any man had spoken to a Targaryen as he has spoken to you -” “Do you take me for Aerys?” Robert asked.

The shadow of the Targaryen monarchy and what happened to depose them is alive and well in this room. It didn’t fade with Ned’s dream. Ned’s thinking of murdered children who also never got justice - the context of his entire arc tells us this. Robert’s thinking of injustice too, more likely the ‘execution’ of Rickard and Brandon Stark, and quite probably thinking that if he doesn’t go that far he’s still okay. Cersei’s thinking of how the Targaryens portrayed their exceptionalism and linked it to the power of the monarchy. As we see when she loses her temper entirely and starts ripping into Robert. She hits him right in the masculinity.

Cersei’s face was a study in contempt. “What a jape the gods have made of us two,” she said. “By all rights, you ought to be in skirts and me in mail.”

So Robert hits her, “a vicious backhand blow to the side of the head.” Robert’s a big, strong unit. That hit sends Cersei sprawling. Cersei, however, does not cry out, though Ned notes the hit will bruise badly. She picks herself up and announces:

“I shall wear this as a badge of honour.”

It’s a badass line, but Robert doesn’t care for it. He threatens that if she says anything, he’ll hit her again, and then orders the Kingsguard to see her to her room. And then Robert reaches for the wine. That habit again.

“You see what she does to me, Ned.” The king seated himself, cradling his wine cup. “My loving wife. The mother of my children.” The rage was gone from him now; in his eyes Ned saw something sad and scared. “I should not have hit her. That was not… that was not kingly.”

It’s worse than that. Another reference to the Rebellion follows, with Robert saying that Rhaegar won. Rhaegar has Lyanna’s ghost, and Robert’s stuck with Cersei. What this says about Robert is pretty horrifying. There’s the victim-blaming. The alcohol abuse. The utter lack of accountability on Robert’s part. Even now, Ned (you know, the drugged up guy who can’t stand) is pressing Robert to talk about some serious issues, and Robert’s draining his cup and planning on a hunting trip, with the probably-hollow promise to talk when Robert returns. He’s got an opportunity here to talk things through with Ned, and he waltzes out not because of Ned’s incapacity but because of his own selfishness. He’s running away. Surely, there is no way he’ll regret this.

As he goes, he tosses Ned the Hand’s clasp again. Ned’s objections to Robert’s actions haven’t vanished in his infirmity. He tries to readdress the issue of Dany, but Robert’s not having it. He swears that if Ned doesn’t rule the kingdom in Robert’s stead, he’ll give the Handship to Jaime Lannister. The clasp is Ned’s own badge of honour. And shouldn’t he just be so proud of that.

Chapter Function

It cannot be overstated how important that brief dream sequence is to the series as a whole. It is our best source of information on a key part of backstory, and it’s a masterwork of suggestion and implication. We won’t get anything better until ASoS, and that tells us a different part of the tale. Effectively, we start at the end of the Lyanna/Rhaegar romance, where Rhaegar is dead and Lyanna is dying, and the Kingsguard are fighting Ned over… what, exactly? Why? The war is lost already. There’s a lot of blood in that scene, we know that Ned and Howland Reed (second mention of him) were the only survivors of that fight and that Lyanna too died soon afterwards, but why was Lyanna bleeding? In a bed, no less?

And most of all - what did Ned promise his sister?

Here’s the thing though. The passage gives us questions. The questions it gives us are the hints that lead to the conclusion. We can start answering them ourselves, from information elsewhere in Ned’s PoV. The Kingsguard, who don’t flee, are standing to defend the last remaining blood Targaryen on the mainland. Lyanna’s in bed bleeding because she recently bore a child. Ned promised Lyanna he’d look after her child. This passage outright encourages theorycrafting - it’s there so the reader develops a theory that fits what we know of the facts.

More immediately, this chapter does some heavy character work for Robert here, because it’s here we see the ugliest parts of Robert’s personality. So ugly that even his best friend has to acknowledge and deal. There’s Robert’s apathy. Three of Ned’s retainers were killed in the street for the heinous crime of being in service to Ned, and Robert won’t allow Ned to pursue their murderer. There’s Robert’s infidelity and what we would call child sexual abuse (Ned doesn’t have the framework to call it out as what it is, not to mention his classism and anti-sex worker prejudice, but he clearly disapproves). Robert had sex with a girl who now “cannot be more than fifteen,” after a full term pregnancy. And then there’s the domestic violence. Ned sees, with his own eyes, Robert hit Cersei. In the face. Knocking her to the ground. He sees Robert regret his own actions even as he blames Cersei, too scared to take full responsibility. This is a deeply pathetic individual, in other words. That's all the more apparent when Robert runs away from his responsibilities as king as well - refusing to stamp on his brother in law attacking people in the streets, refusing to listen to Ned's serious concerns about his actions, instead preferring to go on a freakin' hunt.

Ned’s witnessing of this shapes his actions, too. He sees Robert’s violence against Cersei and he sees it as the fundamental moral weakness in Robert that it is. Robert’s inability to take responsibility, his willingness to lash out at others, means that Ned cannot trust him not to hurt Cersei’s children. Even if Ned doesn’t realise it in this exact moment, in this chapter he’s learned what sort of man Robert is. Between Robert’s willingness to assassinate Daenerys (which he refuses to revisit or discuss) a child Robert’s never set eyes on, and Robert’s willingness to hit his wife and the mother of his children - key aspects of Ned’s trust in Robert have been shattered in his past two PoV chapters. He will go forward without that trust, and without Robert’s full knowledge and support. With dire consequences.

Character shapes plot. Robert's cowardice and selfishness in this chapter seal his fate. And since he's the king, well, that's a lot of other fates affected with it.

Miscellany

When he’s woken from sleep, Ned takes a heartbreaking second to remember that Jory Cassel was killed in the fight that left Ned so injured. He swaps to “the captain of my guard.” Which shows us not just how Ned cared for Jory, but also his trust that his subordinates would select a replacement in Ned’s incapacity.

Clothing Porn

Robert dressed to meet with Ned, a black velvet doublet with the Baratheon stag in golden thread, plus a golden mantle and cloak of black and gold squares. Cersei has a jewelled tiara. In spite of the fact that Ned’s on his sickbed, this is very much the king and queen here visiting.

Food Porn

None.

Next Three Chapters

Sam V, AFFC - Tyrion IV, ASoS - Bran III, ADWD

[agameoftragedy]

My shaylas..

[agameoftragedy]

“Euron going on a horrific revelation monologue about his actually for real evil psychic powers but Victarion is too dumb to understand so he just tells him to kill himself” one of the many reasons affc is the best one

[agameoftragedy]

Baby Stannis gently nursing an injured bird back to health when no one else would and naming her Proudwing until the bird loved him and perched on his shoulder and followed him around until he abandoned the her because Robert told him it was gay to have an animal friend who couldn’t do violence is still so evocative to me like I’m genuinely so so sad thinking about it

[agameoftragedy]

THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN!

after a contentious race full of unexpected turns and threats of kinslaying, the people of westeros have narrowed down the election to 2 candidates, who must now race against each other for the coveted iron chair

on one side, we have the youngest brother of the late king robert. renly may not have the best (or, let's be honest, any) claim to the throne, but his dashing good looks and charming personality have captured many a heart around the seven kingdoms. still, when he saunters about with his knights of summer, some doubt his ability to support the kingdom in times of crisis, and rumours about his proclivities in bed leave the realm uncertain of his willingness to produce an heir. on his side, he has the powerful and ambitious tyrell dynasty, who promises to support this new baratheon rule with money and produce during the long winter that approaches. but will this alliance prove to be a torn on westeros' side? or rather, up it's ass? 👀

on the other side, we have the even younger heir to the targaryen dynasty, the daughter of the mad king aerys herself. daenerys might carry the name of the establishment, but the silver queen flies to westeros with promises to care for the poor and needy in their times of struggle. people in essos call her breaker of chains for her heroic campaign against slavery and oppression, but the sight of dragon fire still leaves a sour taste in many mouths around the seven kingdoms. the targaryen house words call for fire and blood, but who will bleed if the dragon queen is allowed to sit the iron throne?

the choice, for the first time in westerosi history, is up to the public:

VOX POPULI, VOX DEI!

[agameoftragedy]

In your opinion, which of these kings was the worst?

King Aenys I, King Aegon IV or King Robert I?

Aegon IV.

And it’s not even close.

Aenys was weak, but at least he tried. He wasn’t built for the throne, but his failures were incompetence, not malice. Robert was lazy and self-indulgent, but the realm still functioned under him because others held it together. His worst sin was neglect.

Aegon IV was pure rot. He actively poisoned the realm—not just with his behavior, but with his policies. He legitimized every bastard he could just to spit on his enemies, creating the Blackfyre mess that nearly destroyed the dynasty multiple times. He was corrupt, petty, vindictive, and entirely self-serving. His reign wasn’t just bad—it left wounds that lasted for generations.

Aenys failed. Robert drank. Aegon IV sabotaged.

[agameoftragedy]

Okay so I’m also not a huge fan of legitimized Gendry but one thing is that it has so much potential for a reverse acorn hall. Like I want to see Gendry getting shoved into fancy lords clothes while Arya laughs her ass off.

[agameoftragedy]

What exactly do the Iron Islands and the greyjoys provide to the mainland Westeros? Do they have any real connection with the 'Greenlands'?

As I recall, historically they would have done originally as they are also descended of the first men, but presumably their ancestors chose to move across out there for the iron and fishing resources (and piracy), perhaps social reasons too if they wanted to live differently to mainland societies of the time (religion, culture, laws).

We know there have been times of trade with the mainland (that contrast with 'the old way' of raiding); I'm not sure of all the locations of iron in Westeros, but iron's got to be well valued as a resource they can trade, potentially ships too if other places don't have the resources or expertise to build such themselves.

And if you mean in terms of if all Westeros were to work together, the iron fleet could be useful against overseas enemies in war.

Of course, the problem is some of their cultural tendencies (like the old way) cause them to spurn useful cooperation and good trade, so I'm sure many a mainland leader has wondered if it's worth the hassle putting up with the crap of some of the leaders the ironborn have had, but that iron and (ideally) not being raided from the West tho... 👀

[agameoftragedy]

AFFC is where I believe the redemption thing loses a lot of people because Jaime is upholding the regime rather than dismantling it. But I always want to ask them dismantle it how? it's so stupid

okay but that's the thing because in a way: that is what Jaime is trying to do! pushing once again my unfinished Riverlands essay bc I am very interested in this part of his story, especially the role it plays within his redemption arc, but in wider fandom it often gets misinterpreted as a detour.... which has made for some really frustrating takes lmao.

if you will humour me for a second though I want to pose to ppl what the avenues available to Jaime actually are at this point in the story. Jaime is not Sandor Clegane: he cannot just leave everything behind and assume it'll all be fine without him.

the situation in fact: ur evil dad has just died, leaving House Lannister essentially irreconcilable with its enemies. the realm has been devastated by the war. who is in charge of it all? ur eight-year-old son, a sweet kid who could be a good king in the right hands.... but is ofc currently in the hands of Cersei, who is.... well. Stannis, the Riverlords, the vestiges of the Starks, and a bunch of forces you're not even aware of want and your family dead to a man. and you are the lord commander of the kingsguard, who would like to 1) fulfill ur oath to Catelyn, 2) protect your family, 3) not make anything worse than it already is and 4) ideally make things better! what do u fucking do?

OPTION 1: literally just leave this sucks so why not just leave! you are an eminently recognisable man and so is your son but what if you just walked out of there and let whatever forces move in in your wake. Stannis probably gets there first (you don't actually know about Dany or Aegon) and he wants you dead, but maybe if you shave ur head (wait that didn't work last time did it) and dye your son's then....??? ok sure. so now you're living in the woods, the realm may or may not fall back into chaos, ur days are pretty numbered, and this isn't even a good story, is it. cool !

OPTION 2: refuse to have anything to do with a continued war against Starks and Tullys and try and advocate for them at court oh god u really thought that would work. your dad murdered Robb and Cat Stark at a fucking wedding. they do not want to be ur friends, they want u dead. they will arm again in a heartbeat, and that's your family done for. also good luck talking Cersei round on this. or anyone really. edit bc oh and also! if you do just want to sit this one out and refuse to get involved with the siege at Riverrun - some other goon will jump in and end it violently for you. so you've basically done nothing but allow it to happen. good for you!

OPTION 3: mitigate and restore what u can your son is a nice boy who likes books and always does his best. you think that if you could surround him with the right people, he might rule well. you realise Cersei is a liability, and plan to have her removed from your son's counsel. you plan to rebuild it with better people. you realise that the realm is starved and in ruins: you want to prevent war, and you really don't want to break your oath. however, many of the riverlords and northerners are not ready to kneel. you treat with those you can, and wring a peace out of the Tullys by saying the right words in the right voice. your reputation takes a hit and readers cannot understand the chapter for shit, but Edmure Tully accepts terms of peace. you cannot restore the Starks, but you can try and save the last of them: you send your gf on a secret mission, and when she comes to tell you that you have a change to help (lol), you go with her.

THE CATCH: none of these fucking work because your dad fucked everything up so bad that everyone wants your family dead and noone wants to be your friend. even though you ended the siege at Riverrun on peaceful terms, that's only going to last about five minutes. you may be trying to save Sansa Stark right now, but god knows what's about to happen to your own kids while you're not there. you're fucked really. there's no single right thing you can do right now except follow what you believe is the best, most realistic thing to do in the moment and see where it leads. shit. that's how you ended up spending 14 years in the woods with brienne waiting to meet zombie Catelyn while Game of Thrones botches your ending and podcasters call your story the limits of redemption. fuck !