zemnian-newcomer

[zemnian-newcomer]

I've been thinking about the fact that Campaign 3 is clearly ending after the defeat of Ludinus and whatever the Hells decide re: Predathos, and how that's clear because so much time has been dedicated to The Moon Plot and the only things the Hells might possibly have left to do afterwards are best described as a series of relatively low stakes errands. A thought which in turn lead me to thinking about the Taryon Darrington Arc from Campaign 1 and how it really consisted of... a series of relatively low stakes errands after an arc (The Chroma Conclave) that took up an incredible amount of the campaign's runtime. But I think the Taryon Darrington Arc, while solid but not great, does work better than a hypothetical equivalent arc would for Campaign 3, and the reasons I think this are twofold.

First of all, the Taryon Darrington Arc is well served by the fact that Campaign 1 was significantly more episodic than Campaign 3 has been. Campaign 1 had several easily delineated plot arcs over the course of it, and that structure allowed the Taryon Darrington arc to more naturally fit into the flow of the campaign than a similar arc would for Campaign 3, which has been dedicated to the Moon Plot from the start. The Taryon Darrington Arc in Campaign 1 is a solid but not standout plot arc in a campaign that has several, whereas in Campaign 3 such an arc would at best be a weird disconnected coda on a campaign that has had a defined arc throughout.

Secondly, while the Taryon Darrington Arc was defined by a series of largely disconnected errands, it did still have an emotional throughline. As it begins immediately after the Bard's Lament and introduces a new member to the rather insular Vox Machina, the Taryon Darrington Arc asks how Vox Machina will cope with having saved the world but lost part of their own family in the process, and how they will manage to integrate a new member while mourning the loss of another (in spite of having successfully raised that member from the dead). The loss of Scanlan and the introduction of Taryon shook up Vox Machina's group dynamics and it is that shake up that the stakes of the arc are built around. They're still lower than the stakes of the preceding Chroma Conclave Arc and the subsequent Vecna Arc, but they do exist. Meanwhile I'm not confident that a similar arc with Bells Hells would have such emotional stakes holding it together.

The Hells are notably the least bonded group out of the main campaign adventuring parties and people have come and gone from them since Dorian's initial departure in Episode 14, so it seems far less likely to me that they're be able to carry an entire arc on reorienting themselves after any possible losses in the Ludinus/Predathos fight, especially considering how little impact FCG's death and the subsequent introduction of Braius ultimately had on them. Given the stakes of the matter at hand, a theoretical Bells Hells post-climax arc could also focus on reorienting themselves in a vastly changed world, but the Hells have been so non-politically minded throughout the campaign that I don't know if those emotional stakes could carry them either. I could be wrong, but I don't see where Bells Hells could develop as solid an emotional throughline arcoss an errands arc as Vox Machina managed in the Taryon Darrington Arc. They're just the wrong party, and Campaign 3 the wrong campaign, to support such an arc the way Vox Machina and Campaign 1 did.

[zemnian-newcomer]

every so often I think about Caleb, a wizard, letting Yasha shave his face with a mage-killing greatsword called The Magician's Judge

[zemnian-newcomer]

I just had a lightbulb moment where I realized that a huge part of what never ended up fully clicking for me about the story in C3 is it kept telling me things without effectively showing them.

[zemnian-newcomer]

MERRY MIDST-MAS! 🎄 💖

Looks like someone got into the lights! From Sara, Xen, and Matt - and all of us here in the Cosmos - happy holidays and a spectacularly surreal new year! ✨

[Omelet art by Sara Wile 🥚 🎨 ]

[zemnian-newcomer]

new unend episode title: ZORON

me, zonked out of my gourd on a longass work week and squinting at the screen: like moron with a Z?

[zemnian-newcomer]

Felix's answer to what time it is being "well my shift starts at 3 so it's 3" has big "a wizard is never late, nor is he early" energy and I do love that for him

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In the heights of the Un, Merlin confronts a behemoth predator and also his worst fear: being wrong

In the depths of the Fold, Merlin faces new trials: people who don't care whether or not he is wrong

[zemnian-newcomer]

I’m going to say something I’ve been thinking for a long time. Travis/Chetney always bringing up Molaesmyr gets laughs but I think it is the largest factor which is making Matt’s attempt to have the Predathos question be a real debate, and the cast treating it as one not only fall flat for me, but have me ready to be incredibly disappointed in the storytelling of C3 depending on what happens.

Molaesmyr is the most pure example we have of Ludinus’s sins and what happens if he gets what he wants. He contacted Predathos and destroyed a civilization. Not only destroyed it, but twisted the animals, plant life, and people of the city and for hundreds of miles around into horrible, tortured and suffering mockeries of themselves, still haunting a perpetually dying space. That is what Matt presented when we visited Molaesmyr in episode 57 and, because Matt is good at horror and especially body horror, it really landed.

We’ve heard the cast say several times now that the characters definitely want to stop Ludinus from getting any power but after that “we’ll see.” We’ll see what? How is doing any version of what Ludinus wants a victory, even if he’s not involved? How are we considering that it might be fine to let Predathos out to chase/eat the gods or to control after seeing what it did to Molaesmyr? Do the people we saw as twisted and suffering mockeries of their former selves in that dead city not matter to the story at all? Are they just set dressing we’re supposed to forget?

Trying to present any version of what Ludinus ultimately wants, releasing Predathos, as a possible and even potentially correct or admirable endgame was, imo, a huge mistake after seeing Molaesmyr. As an audience of this story, it turns who we’ve been told are protagonists into villains. And while some stories can do that well, I don’t have confidence this one could, in large part because D&D is designed to be heroic fantasy. And seeing the heroes turn to villains at the last second will be even harder to swallow if the story tries to tell us they had a point.

[zemnian-newcomer]

DYING. ABSOLUTELY PERISHING

[zemnian-newcomer]

I'm so fond of the Bocular Man being described as "silent" and then immediately

[zemnian-newcomer]

M: Merlin is quickly realizing that he hates Zoron. He does not seem notably impressed by the Ship, nor moved by its historical and scientific significance. He has NO books. He never studied at ANY schools. He is ONLY curious about feelings, not facts! S: Felix feels similarly. The flagrant disregard for the value of timekeeping – and what is this guy so HAPPY about all the time, anyway? It’s more than he can stomach.

These two are so goddamn funny

[zemnian-newcomer]

In c2e115, Liam describes Caleb's room as having nondescript furniture and no stained glass, proclaimed by Jester as "boring", a striking contrast from the thoughtfully designed rooms of the rest of the Mighty Nein. Caleb waves it off at the time as having spent a lot of time on the other rooms, so there was no time left for his. But zooming out, as I recall plenty of meta at the time did, the tower is an expression of Caleb's love for his friends, and the lack of attention on his own room suggestive of him not extending love towards himself. Knowing from Liam that Essek shares his room now, I like to think he has learned to invest in his own space - even if using the bridge of catering to Essek's needs there at first - and landed on a design that is Caleb Widogast's too.

[zemnian-newcomer]

I think it's funny that I keep seeing Liliana compared to Essek on the basis of 'beloved npc the cast wants to see redeemed', with a contingent of fandom claiming Liliana to be more 'deserving' of said redemption because they see her as a victim and Essek as a villain. To me, if we are going to compare her to a c2 npc, her role is much more similar to that of Astrid (and Eadwulf, though he's less central).

As in, she’s an antagonist who’s deeply emotionally and historically tied to one of the pc's, with said pc being unable to bring themself to give up on her despite her being unwilling to stop fighting for the bad guy (examples: Liliana casting timestop to get bells hells past the vanguard; Astrid allowing the nein to flee to the fire plane; both of them returning to working for their evil boss immediately afterwards).

Like Astrid, Liliana was manipulated into joining a cult-like supremacist organisation (though unlike Astrid she was an adult, giving her less leeway) for what they thought of as good, just reasons (Liliana to save her daughter and 'free' exandria from the gods; Astrid to protect her home nation). Like Astrid she is a victim, but she is also undeniably a villain. Both of them have the lives of countless innocents on their hands and could not, for the longest time, be trusted. The fact that they are sad little meow meows or whatever doesn't change this. Even at the end of c2, Astrid may have turned on her boss, but unlike Caleb she was unable to fully give up the organisation he was part of, becoming part of the assembly herself. Liliana may be out from under Ludinus' thumb, but she has shown little indication that she has moved away from his ideas of 'let's blame the gods for all the ills of the world and exterminate them for it'.

Essek, while arguably a much darker character who acted for wholly selfish reasons, nonetheless entered c2 as a perceived ally. By the time the nein found out about his involvement there was already a foundation of trust and friendship, and he had made the decision to sever ties with the assembly (though it took a bit longer before the guilt and regret caught up) while all but devoting himself to the nein after. Liliana and Astrid both struggled for most of the campaign to turn their backs on the evil organisation they worked for no matter the pleading of loved ones. All three are morally grey characters who at some point had the potential to be redeemed or go full antagonist (WHAT would have happened if Liliana found out Imogen really knew of the assassination attempt) but their journeys and the way they are presented to the audience as well as the players differ quite strongly.

If you are going to compare Essek and Liliana, admit to their strongest similarity: the fact that they both had the agency to choose their bad actions, and that neither were an innocent victim to the consequences that followed.

[zemnian-newcomer]

I do wonder what Lilliana thinks her relationship with Imogen is going to be like if they both make it out of this alive. Cause like sure she switched side at basically the last possible minute, after several attempts from Imogen to do so prior, but then what? She still killed many people, helped brainwash hordes of people and encouraged literal children to join and fight in a death cult. She did all this supposedly for Imogen, but I don't know how much that flies when her actions also directly benefited herself.

And I mean look at Relvin and Imogen's relationship. There's love there obviously, and while he did his best their relationship is still strained. And he didn't go join a death cult and murder a bunch of people, just made understandable mistakes and had no idea how to help his child when she developed powers beyond him. Does Lilliana think their relationship is going to be any better?

It'll be interesting to see how Laura plays this, because objectively Relvin is the better parent by a country mile. But there's also the fact that Imogen probably built up an image in her head of the woman who abandoned her and wants to save her, wants her to be the mother she yearned for all those years. Whether this translates into wanting to give her a chance and get to know her is an entirely different matter.

[zemnian-newcomer]

BINGO!

[zemnian-newcomer]

The most emotionally devastating spell anyone could ever cast on Ludinus would be Silence. Not even because it robs him of the ability to flex the arcane prowess of which he is so fond, but because that man is in love with the sound of his own voice and losing the ability to monologue at people would be tantamount to a fate worse than death for him

[zemnian-newcomer]

Imagine being THE most powerful wizard in all of Exandria and you have this insane plan to release a godeater because you know, fuck the gods. And you spent centuries perfecting this plan and forging alliances with trained killers and this five minded entity from the moon and the unseelie court and you have an entire army behind you. You start a war with a neighboring country so that you can get this ancient artifact to power your moon bridge and you set up a scheme to try and kill the lover of the champion of the matron of ravens so he’ll show up just for you to put him in an orb. And then you try to absorb your general’s essence into your body so that you can become the vessel for the godeater ONLY for you to get forcecaged by a blue man who just got out of the house this year.