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[thinkinginquenya]

So why do we think Fatty Bolger's rebellion failed, and what was different that allowed the Bywater uprising to succeed instead?

[thinkinginquenya]

J. R. R. Tolkien on escapism in “The Lord of the Rings” (x)

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don’t we consider it his duty to escape?…If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we’re partisans of liberty, then it’s our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!” 

-J.R.R. Tolkien

[thinkinginquenya]

I'm in a group chat founded on the idea that Aragorn too is a lesbian (as in, the group chat was created specifically to talk about that idea), and everyone I've presented the idea to has gone "huh, you're right"

FRODO: gay man

SAM: ww1 trench warfare gay (straight when a woman is around but would drop it all for frodo)

PIPPIN AND MERRY: the gay cousins

GANDALF: old queen

ARAGORN: the thinking man's bisexual

LEGOLAS: gay but acts like he hasn't had time to deal with it (has had nothing but time due to elf immortality)

GIMLI: you gotta tell Legolas how you feel, man

BOROMIR: afraid of the truth. Aragorn doesn't want you like that you need to move on

GALADRIEL: transfemme elder bisexual

ARWEN: professional fag hag and she's SERIOUS about it #ALLY

ELROND: transmasc gay single dad making it work

FARAMIR: lesbian

EOWYN: lesbian

GOLLUM: homophobic SMEAGOL: i don't even have to say it.

[thinkinginquenya]

Partially I guess, yeah, Saruman doesn't necessarily want to stop Frodo and co. Saruman has had his fun, and now he can take remaining ruffians elsewhere to leave Frodo to pick up the pieces?

So why do we think Fatty Bolger's rebellion failed, and what was different that allowed the Bywater uprising to succeed instead?

[thinkinginquenya]

Abstract: In this paper we present T. rex fossils as disruptive objects that can drastically influence the actions and reactions of humans that encounter them. We present a vision of the T. rex as being a key node within a web of human and object associations that ultimately produces, first, extreme desire in humans, and then a breakdown in human relationships resulting in disagreements, disputes, lawsuits, and the committing of crime. From there we bring these T. rex fossils into the concept of desirescape which sees a network of object/object and object/human reactions provoking irresistible desire in humans. We argue that this desire can push humans to violate law or social norms or, in several T. rex cases, sue each other. How then should we humans approach T. rex and other disruptive objects? Cautiously, and with the knowledge that these objects may be more powerful than we are.

Yates & Peacock, 2024.

[thinkinginquenya]

“He embraced the hobbits then, after the manner of his people, stooping and placing his hands upon their shoulders and kissing their foreheads.” That’s Faramir saying goodbye to Frodo and Sam

BUT ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME THAT WHEN ARAGORN KISSED BOROMIR’S FOREHEAD, IT WAS A GONDOR THING?

That he gave a Gondor farewell to the son of Gondor??? I didn’t think his death could be sadder but here we are. Shoot me.

[thinkinginquenya]

Coolest thing about lord of the rings? The king of horses shows up. It appears he is no different from all other horses

[thinkinginquenya]

The troll song!! how could I forget!!

Hobbits being the only people shown to be just Saying Untrue Words Recreationally could have relevance to the fact that hobbits are the chroniclers of our tale? Almost like everyone else's fanciful stories have been edited out for clarity, but Hobbits can recognise when another hobbit is Making Stuff Up For Fun with no additional context required, so the Hobbits writing it down only include when Hobbits engage in phantasie

I had also forgotten about Berúthiel!! I gather that she was intended to have been a historical figure, but maybe the bit about the cats was made up!

One thing that bothers me about LotR the book is, like, none of the stories that people tell in it are made up. There can be lies(Rohan selling horses to Mordor directly), and there can be misconceptions (Galadriel is an evil witch who enchants people and never lets them leave her realm), but like, no one makes up stories for fun.

On the one hand it's a fun part of the story itself, "all the old tales come to life" is a fun thing to happen in a story, but it happens almost every single time. All but one of the songs and poems that anyone discusses is about something that actually happened within the context of the fictional history. All the old legends are about something real, even if they're not quite right. I can only think one poem/song that is obviously fictional, and it's Bilbo's Man In The Moon song that Frodo sings in the prancing pony, which in itself is odd because it is so clearly Tolkien's take on a poem that exists in OUR world (in the context of the fictional history this merely means it survived to the present day) and thus doesn't necessarily feel like something that naturally flows from the context of the world in the book.

I don't really know what to make of this, it is simply Odd.

[thinkinginquenya]

One thing that bothers me about LotR the book is, like, none of the stories that people tell in it are made up. There can be lies(Rohan selling horses to Mordor directly), and there can be misconceptions (Galadriel is an evil witch who enchants people and never lets them leave her realm), but like, no one makes up stories for fun.

On the one hand it's a fun part of the story itself, "all the old tales come to life" is a fun thing to happen in a story, but it happens almost every single time. All but one of the songs and poems that anyone discusses is about something that actually happened within the context of the fictional history. All the old legends are about something real, even if they're not quite right. I can only think one poem/song that is obviously fictional, and it's Bilbo's Man In The Moon song that Frodo sings in the prancing pony, which in itself is odd because it is so clearly Tolkien's take on a poem that exists in OUR world (in the context of the fictional history this merely means it survived to the present day) and thus doesn't necessarily feel like something that naturally flows from the context of the world in the book.

I don't really know what to make of this, it is simply Odd.

[thinkinginquenya]

Matt Berry as Tom Bombadil

[thinkinginquenya]

(transcript in alt text)

"Small hands do them because they are compelled by a terminal case of curiosity and ADHD-fuelled impulsivity."

Hot take, and I don't remember if Tolkien talks about this in his letters but:

Pippin didn't accidentally summon the Balrog. He MAY have summoned the orcs, but the Balrog would have come anyway, because - like with the Watcher In The Water - powerful ancient things are drawn to the power of The Ring. The Balrog was drawn to the ring, and I'm sure the orcs would be very curious as to why the Balrog suddenly decided to take a stroll all of a sudden.

At most, what Pippin did was to allow the orcs to work out where the Fellowship was before the Balrog got there. and this is actually a GOOD thing, because it means that the Fellowship ran away to the bridge before the Balrog could find them. If the Balrog had caught up to them before they got near to the bridge, they probably would have been a lot worse off AND the orcs would probably be following at a safe distance waiting to pick off any stragglers.

Was it a good idea for Pippin to throw rocks down a hole? (or in the PJ films' case, poke a corpse???) No, of course not. Was it a classic Tolkien case of a decision of questionable wisdom leading to a good outcome? I would argue yes.

[thinkinginquenya]

#FeanorDidNothingWrong

(I'm kidding Feanor did some fairly significant things wrong)

You make a good point though, some rocks (/gems) in middle earth certainly do summon trouble.

Hot take, and I don't remember if Tolkien talks about this in his letters but:

Pippin didn't accidentally summon the Balrog. He MAY have summoned the orcs, but the Balrog would have come anyway, because - like with the Watcher In The Water - powerful ancient things are drawn to the power of The Ring. The Balrog was drawn to the ring, and I'm sure the orcs would be very curious as to why the Balrog suddenly decided to take a stroll all of a sudden.

At most, what Pippin did was to allow the orcs to work out where the Fellowship was before the Balrog got there. and this is actually a GOOD thing, because it means that the Fellowship ran away to the bridge before the Balrog could find them. If the Balrog had caught up to them before they got near to the bridge, they probably would have been a lot worse off AND the orcs would probably be following at a safe distance waiting to pick off any stragglers.

Was it a good idea for Pippin to throw rocks down a hole? (or in the PJ films' case, poke a corpse???) No, of course not. Was it a classic Tolkien case of a decision of questionable wisdom leading to a good outcome? I would argue yes.

[thinkinginquenya]

Double false! Rock throwing is a reaction to being afraid of something that is already there, in middle earth.

(transcript in alt text)

Boromir's reaction to the presence of the creature(s) in the water was aggression.

Hot take, and I don't remember if Tolkien talks about this in his letters but:

Pippin didn't accidentally summon the Balrog. He MAY have summoned the orcs, but the Balrog would have come anyway, because - like with the Watcher In The Water - powerful ancient things are drawn to the power of The Ring. The Balrog was drawn to the ring, and I'm sure the orcs would be very curious as to why the Balrog suddenly decided to take a stroll all of a sudden.

At most, what Pippin did was to allow the orcs to work out where the Fellowship was before the Balrog got there. and this is actually a GOOD thing, because it means that the Fellowship ran away to the bridge before the Balrog could find them. If the Balrog had caught up to them before they got near to the bridge, they probably would have been a lot worse off AND the orcs would probably be following at a safe distance waiting to pick off any stragglers.

Was it a good idea for Pippin to throw rocks down a hole? (or in the PJ films' case, poke a corpse???) No, of course not. Was it a classic Tolkien case of a decision of questionable wisdom leading to a good outcome? I would argue yes.

[thinkinginquenya]

I have a downright pavlovian response to seeing him but instead of drooling I weep and wail and cry

[thinkinginquenya]

I would possibly say that the mission was completed due to Gandalf's temporary absence more than anything else: with Gandalf there it is less likely that Frodo and Sam would have been able to sneak off by themselves, in my estimation, and the more people they brought with them the lower the likelihood of their success!! But yes, Gandalf the Grey just didn't have quite enough authority to be able to pull off what Gandalf the White ended up doing, I agree!

Hot take, and I don't remember if Tolkien talks about this in his letters but:

Pippin didn't accidentally summon the Balrog. He MAY have summoned the orcs, but the Balrog would have come anyway, because - like with the Watcher In The Water - powerful ancient things are drawn to the power of The Ring. The Balrog was drawn to the ring, and I'm sure the orcs would be very curious as to why the Balrog suddenly decided to take a stroll all of a sudden.

At most, what Pippin did was to allow the orcs to work out where the Fellowship was before the Balrog got there. and this is actually a GOOD thing, because it means that the Fellowship ran away to the bridge before the Balrog could find them. If the Balrog had caught up to them before they got near to the bridge, they probably would have been a lot worse off AND the orcs would probably be following at a safe distance waiting to pick off any stragglers.

Was it a good idea for Pippin to throw rocks down a hole? (or in the PJ films' case, poke a corpse???) No, of course not. Was it a classic Tolkien case of a decision of questionable wisdom leading to a good outcome? I would argue yes.

[thinkinginquenya]

so you are a humble Tolkien nerd who is studying Germanic philology for reasons completely unrelated to Tolkien

and then you stumble on the Germania (by Tacitus, because of course you do, you don’t avoid that shit when you study Germanic philology), and specifically on the passage that talks about the three sons of mythical Mannus who are the ancestors of three main Germanic tribes, two of which have names that are barely attested, but a third name is that of the Ingaevones

and these guys seem to descend from a form *Ingu-/*Ingwja, traces of which you can find in Beowulf, where Ingwine means “allies/friends/relatives of Ing” (aka the Danes, and also found in Ynglingar, Swedish dynasty), and in the Old English Runic Poem, where “Ing was first seen by men amongst the western Danes, until afterwards he once again migrated on the waves followed by his chariot to go westwards”. 

and you, aware of that one guy called Ingwe in the Silmarillion, and of the early Ingwi version where it referred to the royal house of the First Tribe before extending to the whole group, you (knowing that) sort of…

turn your head towards JRR Tolkien, real slow.

[thinkinginquenya]

Funny you should say that...

Hot take, and I don't remember if Tolkien talks about this in his letters but:

Pippin didn't accidentally summon the Balrog. He MAY have summoned the orcs, but the Balrog would have come anyway, because - like with the Watcher In The Water - powerful ancient things are drawn to the power of The Ring. The Balrog was drawn to the ring, and I'm sure the orcs would be very curious as to why the Balrog suddenly decided to take a stroll all of a sudden.

At most, what Pippin did was to allow the orcs to work out where the Fellowship was before the Balrog got there. and this is actually a GOOD thing, because it means that the Fellowship ran away to the bridge before the Balrog could find them. If the Balrog had caught up to them before they got near to the bridge, they probably would have been a lot worse off AND the orcs would probably be following at a safe distance waiting to pick off any stragglers.

Was it a good idea for Pippin to throw rocks down a hole? (or in the PJ films' case, poke a corpse???) No, of course not. Was it a classic Tolkien case of a decision of questionable wisdom leading to a good outcome? I would argue yes.