theturningsucks

[theturningsucks]

the real reason i post my thoeries for "the turning" is so better fanfiction can come out of the fandom

[theturningsucks]

I love this!

ive been playing with the idea of Miles and Kate being opposite sides of the same coin, and you put it into words wonderfully.

Flora and Miles relationship, and Kates favoritism.

This ended up being really long and i’m sorry i didn’t mean for it to be so long. Flora and Miles relationship is hands down the best thing of The Turning in my opinion. I’m a known sucker for older brother-little sister relationships especially when they’re done in a close/loving way and I absolutely love how their relationship is treated in the exploration of favoritism. I’ll start this off with saying I absolutely see Miles as autistic/schizophrenic, and this affects how I see his relationship with Flora.

Flora, to me, is a very obvious sort of sibling type that a lot of allistic siblings become when one or more of their siblings are autistic but they aren’t where they’re sort of in this “autistic translator” role, usually some other sort of neurodivergent themself which Flora may as well be. I think about the line “Miles is the best” after Kate asks if Miles gets in trouble a lot, and how it seems to sort of give this answer of “yes, but it’s deeper than that” without actually understanding what she’s actually implying. She understands Miles and how he works and communicates even if his behavior doesn’t fit what’s expected, and most likely knows that things like the school incident usually have more to them then they seem.

Miles on the other hand seems to have picked up some parental-like behaviors towards Flora, which, obviously. I think its natural for the eldest sibling to sort of pick up a parent role no matter what the situation is, but once the parents are out of the picture, even if you have people to stand in in those parental relationships, the oldest sort of picks up slack in the emotional/relationship aspect the younger would look for in a parent. I don’t think Miles is a stranger to putting his foot down when Floras involved, whether it be with his parents beforehand or anyone in his life afterwards, almost all of the conflict he becomes the aggressor in relates back to Flora in some way. We see almost all of Miles passion relates back to caring for Flora brought up again when they’re escaping the manor and to get Miles up Kate brings up Flora.

I don’t think Miles and Kates feelings towards Flora are all that different. I think both of them put this sort of forced-innocence onto Flora, both of them love and care for Flora a lot but Kate obviously projects onto her, seeing Flora as an extension of her younger self, a struggling little girl having to grow up alone. Miles to me seems like someone who’s doing something similar, he just happens to be more quiet about it. Miles seemingly wants to protect Flora from having to do what he had to, swallowing up his feelings and putting them aside for other things. He doesn’t want Flora to push down her feelings or be put in stressful or overwhelming situations like he mostly had been.

I think that Kate favors Flora so much more because of this too. To Kate Flora is her own potential, as well as a way to heal herself, while also healing something around her. That if she does this and if she makes Floras life better, she will feel healed from her own wounds. Flora is all the parts of Kate that Kate likes, and I assume she hopes she can foster a world for those parts of Flora to grow. The only times we see Kate get upset or react negatively to Flora is when Flora is either behaving in a way that could be seen as “encouraged by Miles”, or in a way that directly contradicts Kate’s fantasy of helping out her younger self. Kate seems to be especially effected whenever Flora “sides” with Miles, like with the pool prank or when they pressure her into playing hide and seek. Like she views Miles putting a blockage between them.

Miles is sort of an antithesis to what Kate wants from Flora, I actually think aging Miles up in this movie for that is a really really smart idea. It works really well for that idea to have him be a teenager on the cusp of puberty instead of a small little boy. Kate struggles to identify with Miles because he’s all the nasty parts of PTSD. He has all the unpleasant to look at signs, the parts of Kate I’m sure she doesn’t want to identify with in fear that she’d become like her mother. Miles dissociates, he has strange thought patterns and behaviors, anger issues, can’t tell reality from fantasy,  and lacks boundaries. Something really important about that list is that those are also VERY important character traits Kate has. A line I think of when comparing Miles and Kate is the line she has about Miles not knocking when she woke up with him in her room. She also never knocks while entering his room. Both Miles and Kate lash out at each other for assumptions they made up about each other in their head. Both Miles and Kate are being turned into something twisted from their trauma, Quint and Kates mother respectively.

Miles is everything Kate hates about herself and I think that’s why their miscommunication is so deep. He doesn’t respond like a young little girl who lost her parents. He responds like a deeply, deeply unsettled teenage boy who idolizes his abuser would. And that’s so alien to Kate she can’t consider the fact that they both fall into the same exact boat. Miles is more similar to Kate than he’ll ever be to Quint, but neither of them can see that.

I love that Flora never throws either of them under the bus, but Flora specifically sticks with Miles the entire time. That’s another part of their relationship I absolutely love. Flora never turns against Miles, or questions his motives. She knows her brother and she knows how he is, and I enjoy that that never becomes a conflict.

[theturningsucks]

Hi!! I just watched The Turning for the first time today and then I found this blog and omg I love all your theories and posts <3

Do you have any theories as to what would happen to Kate, Miles and Flora if they were actually able to leave the house like in the first ending of the movie?? Do you think they would still be haunted by memories of Quint, or would they be left alone to work through their trauma together?

I'd like to think that they got away safely at the end and were able to figure out their new lives outside of the house together :)

Hey!! tysm that means the world to me !!

And ofc, Okay so personally I don't think the ghosts are real, just a manifestation of everyone's trauma (with paranoia and delusions, a very scary combo).

so they would definitely still have to work through stuff, Kates still going through Psychosis, Flora just faced her biggest fear (leaving the estate) and Miles just left the metaphorical control of Quint, which is normally something he would never do. So I think after they get out things would take a while before it would settle down.

they'd probably have to go back to Kate's apartment with Rose, and report Mrs Grose to someone?? probably.

(I really dont know how any of the legal aspect of this would go, what DOES one do when they need to flee an estate because of a murder happening and just general paranoia?? emergency custody maybe? it does not help that they never specify where this movie takes place, like it was filmed in ireland but in universe? unclear. )

And it's probably not totally realistic that Kate would get the children, but it's not real so idc.

Kate would probably still see Quint, at least a little less (through my experience with paranoia and delusions being in certain locations Heightens it astronomically). And kate leaving and getting support from Rose would def help with that. 

Rose would also need to help with the children, at least a little bit because Kate's whole thing is that she bit off more than she can chew. So with Rose's help and therapy hopefully she'd be fine to house and teach/parent (?) them.

I think Rose and Kate are lesbains.

Kate's pay would also be raised if she got custody, even if she didn't all day care?? big money right there. So she could afford a bigger house.

After that Kate would need some sort of training on how to work with autistic and traumatized children, at least advice like cmon girl.

MIles would need to come to terms with what Quint did, on some level he probably knows this but to actually realize is something else. And in therapy he could actually work through his groomed behaviors, and general communication skills.

I think Flora has Agoraphobia so she would need to learn to cope with that.

and they all need to learn to cope with their PTSD.

They would all need lots of family therapy, and one on one therapy.

They would all definitely butt heads, they're not perfect. Miles and Kate learning to work around each other and not trigger one another would be a big milestone, but very necessary.

And Miles not being scared of Kate, and allowing Kate to help Flora without putting himself between them would be something to work on.

And MIles is a rich kid so he would probably be like "ew you're poor"

I have fic recomendations that follow this general plotline.

[theturningsucks]

Miles Fairchild, was he groomed?

short answer, yes.

TW// this is an in depth analysis discussing grooming tactics, the psychological effects of grooming, and how they apply to Miles Fairchild and Peter Quint. With light discussion of SA.

What is grooming?: ‘Grooming is an intentional process that many offenders engage in to gain the trust of their victim and to desensitize them to physically or emotionally harmful actions. “ -Alcoholdrugcouncil.org

I mashed together CSAsurviors and rainn.org's "patterns of grooming" lists to create one that is more easily applicable to Miles and Quint situation. 

Victim selection: Abusers often observe possible victims and select them based on ease of access to them or their perceived vulnerability.

MIles is both easy to access, Quint lives with him, vulnerable from his parents death and isolated, from the house he lives in to the private schools he attends. the perfect victim for a man like Quint (disgusting and vile).

"Grooming can be done by any kind of person but the abuser having some level of pre-existing social or other kinds of power over the victim or a preexisting emotional connection like in the case of a family makes grooming easier". - CSAsurvivors 

Gaining Trust and Access: Abusers will track the behaviors of their victims and put themselves into the child’s pattern and befriend them. Often offering a child special forms of attention. They often fill holes in emotional support the child has or exploits other vulnerabilities. Grooming can also include things like giving presents, playing games, giving food or giving rides

My personal theory is while Miles' parents were alive, Quint was still at the "friendly" stage of grooming, gaining trust, getting on the child's good side.

It makes sense for MIles to get his emotional needs met by his parents, them passing and Miles looking towards Quint, who was the next best thing his "best friend''

He used Quints attention to fill the hole his parents death left him with 

Playing a Role in The Child’s Life: The abuser will ingratiate themselves fully into the lives of the victim. This often includes forming an emotional connection where the victims feel the abuser needs them and that they are the only people who understand each other. Showing up continuously and being there physically all the time

“Imagine a teen who is feeling isolated, who is struggling to name their gender or sexual identity and feels rejected by their family or peers. That teen will likely have a deep desire for connection, to feel “normal” or to be heard. Offenders will exploit this situation by being willing to listen patiently to “help them understand their sexuality” or by being the first person in their life to validate that “it’s okay to feel this way.” Offenders may increase the teens isolation by suggesting that they understand and care more than other people in the teen’s life.” -Alcoholdrugcouncil.org

Miles is bullied, We see this in the scene where he's describing to Kate how someone burned all the photos of his father,  and I think autstic. (although when you're autistic and heavily traumatized the symptoms often mold together and it's hard to see what’s from autism and what's from the trauma)

Miles feeling ostracized for his autsitic traits and taking comfort in Quint who would fulfill his desire to feel normal. Accompanied by the fact that Quint is physically there all the time, it creates the perfect environment for Quint to successfully fully integrate into Miles life. 

(Miles could also very well be gay, Quint could of used this insecuirty to his advatage)

Isolation: Abusers often isolate their victims, getting them alone like giving private rides, taking the victim for private time out, holding the victim after class, “mentoring” the victim, inviting them over, or otherwise separating the child emotionally and physically for abuse. Now depending on the relationship to the victim, this may happen on a spectrum. In some cases, abuse can happen out in the open if those around them won’t intervene.

One of the most solid pieces of canon, right there in the movie, evidence for Miles being Groomed is from Miss Jessel's journal. From that scene we find out Quint disappeared with Miles for hours and brought him to bars. This is a textbook grooming tactic.

The isolation from others (miss jessel, mrs grose, flora), made him able to further his manipulation and control. 

Although at some point this must of fallen through after the murder of miss jessel, maybe Quint overlooked Mrs Grose, didnt think she'd do anything. started bringing the behavior more obviously into the house. The power got to Quints head leading to his ultimate demise as Mrs Grose watched him die and didn't do anything because she found him "disgusting" ,

(the deleted scene "Mrs Grose's confession" also implies she new the grooming/SA was happening but didn't do anything)

Secrecy and Control of Relationships: This often combines things like trauma bonding and reinforcing how special the victim is and the victim/abuser relationship. Phrases like “no one understands” or “this is our special relationship”. Threats of suicide and self-harm are often common, so are threats of violence against the child and family. This is often where levels of trauma bonding really start to come into play. You start to get a pattern of behavior that causes extreme levels of positive emotions and extreme levels of fear, confusion and pain.

What is a trauma bond?: "Trauma bond is the connection formed between a victim and their abuser(s), often built during long-term abuse. Victims can develop a deep sense of loyalty towards their abuser, which can feel like genuine love and affection." - nfa.co.uk

Quint lived for control, after Miles parents death he immediately moved himself into the master bedroom. He secured his position of power and control over everyone. And kickstarting his process into trauma bonding, and the desensitization of touch and sexualization (more on that later).

Having a trauma bond would explain the emotions MIles displays towards Quint, The insistence that they were friends contrasted with the panic whenever Quints brought up.

“It's important to remember that children and young people may not understand they've been groomed. They may have complicated feelings, like loyalty, admiration, love, as well as fear, distress and confusion.” -nspcc.org.uk

(Speculation: threats of harm to miss Jessel and Flora, this could be a reason Miles is so protective of Flora. He puts himself, physically and emotionally, in front of Flora to protect her Whenever kate is around flora or upsets her.)

Desensitization to touch and discussion of sexual topics: Abusers will often start to touch a victim in ways that appear harmless, such as hugging, wrestling and tickling, and later escalate to increasingly more sexual contact, such as massages or showering together. Abusers may also show the victim pornography or discuss sexual topics with them, to introduce the idea of sexual contact.

While all of these things could of happened, I believe Quints main tactic was Desensitization through the sexualization of miss jessel. 

If Quint normalized sexual things, this could lead to things such as attempting to kiss Kate to apologize, inapropriate compliments. Lack of boundaries such as not closing doors when using the bathroom, walking into others rooms without knocking, etc. 

note that the lack of boundaries are DIRECTLY mirrored by Quint via Miss Jessels journal, she says "I have to sleep with my door locked, Quint tried to come in in the middle of the night" - video

(speculation:  Quint showed miles the polaroids of Miss Jessel)

Other behaviors Miles exhibits:

Being upset, withdrawn, or distressed

Sexualized behavior

Missing for periods of time

Having a best friends who are older

Having a disproportionate view of someone as amazing 

Unwillingness to accept help and support from potential rescuers (denying Kate's offer on talking about Quint,  not wanting to leave the estate at the end because of Quint)

Sudden changes in personality (Mrs grose's insistence that Miles was "such a sweet boy")

dissociation

(- nspcc.org.uk)

[theturningsucks]

I really like Mackenzie Davis's interpretation of her character Kate

from- Daily dead

[theturningsucks]

No yea, I like Kate dont get me wrong but shes so under qualified it hurts.

Honestly, I do kinda get Kate's logic.

"If I can get Flora past the gates, and she sees that she's still alive and safe, she'll finally get over her fear. Ignore her panicking! She's never going to change if I do as she pleads. The faster I get her out of here, the faster she'll get better. I'm a miracle worker!"

Except I doubt Flora's panic attack would have just stopped. The stress could've caused her to faint, or worse — get a seizure.

But that's what happens when you don't face the facts and hire a plain old governess instead of a professional child therapist.

(Yeah, I know Kate should've been able to do her job better considering her background, but if Mrs. Grose hadn't hired her, chances are she'd hire someone who would make similar mistakes since she wanted a normal governess to care for her very not-normal wards.)

[theturningsucks]

idk how else to describe Mrs Grose as anything other than a boy mom

[theturningsucks]

thats so cool, I also think the painting she gives her forshadows kates mental spiral.

I think the color red represents trauma, and blue paranoia (?? im still working on that) based on the use of the colors and their placment in scenes and their context or whatever. And the painting she gives her has blue and red contrsting lights.

Thinking about Kate's mom — Mrs. Mandell — and the purpose of her character

Obvious answer:

She foreshadows the ending of the film and Kate's own instability.

If I really think about it:

Kate's troubles with understanding and communicating with her disturbed mother foreshadows her troubles with understanding Miles' issues and communicating with him.

[theturningsucks]

maybe its the pessimist in me but i like watching media that fails more than i like watching media that succeeds. i like to see how spectacularly they fall and the potential they had

[theturningsucks]

would love to write an essay on the turning and it’s demonization of autistic and traumatized children. i wish i was a video essay-er because i have a lot to say about it and nowhere to say it

[theturningsucks]

OMG OMG SAME

i was so dissapointed to see how most of the turning fandom is people sexualizing Miles, and mostly because hes played by Finn Wolfhard (side note: i feel so bad for him).

And the hatred and demonization of Kate? because she isnt a pedophile?? i was so distraught, I love Kate shes relatable to me.

I've blocked pretty much everyone who sexualizes Miles Fairchild.

I can understand being fascinated with Miles' behavior and seeing a dark humor in his actions, but treating those things as attractive (sexually and/or romantically) is a huge red flag.

What really sets off my DANGER! alarm is when people seriously antagonize Kate for being disturbed by Miles' advances. Like, they think a woman in her thirties should react positively to a teenage boy ignoring her boundaries, trying to kiss her, and making a sexual remark about her body, and that those actions are actually attractive.

I think those people should fall in a spike pit.

[theturningsucks]

LIKE IDK I DONT FIND HIM SCARY HES JUST AUTISTIC

[theturningsucks]

The Turning and its relationship with the color red

in this i talk about and analyse scenes in which The Turning use the color red.

in the featurette they say that "every frame and every color is designed to tell part of a story" so i dont think im pulling this out of my ass.

TW// talks about grooming, SA. not graphic

background information: my theory (its not very out there its heavily implied) is that Quint groomed miles. I see the ghosts as mostly not real, but everyones paranoia, the whole buildup is all the characters triggering eachothers PTSD until it all explodes into a paranoid episode in the last act. and i ignore everthing that happend after they drive out that gate. to me they are getting family therapy somehwere in the city.

I think red represents Trauma, everytime the color shows up its while the characters are talking about or expressing their trauma,

Both Kate and MIles wear red, in MIles sweater (given to him by Quint) and in Kates coat. I think this shows how their connected by their experineces with SA.

while MIles is dissociating hes staring out his window with red drapes

In the Brave face scene (that was fun fact, inspired by David Bowie) both Kate and flora are wearing red coats, this is after Flora re-lives her trauma of leaving the estate. Floras cost is brighter, because her traumas newer.

the only photo of Quint we see he is wearing red, while Miles and Flora are wearing light colors. we dont ever see them wear light colors again. i think this represents how Quints actions bled onto the children and changed them forever. Yknow PTSD.

even the horse rein is red, because Quint worked with the horses i personaly view the horse whip and the rein to be connected to him. and anything that has to do with him is inherently traumatic.

In the third act Kate wears a red robe, showing how shes wraped into trauma as she experineces flashbacks, in the form of seeing Miss Jessel being SAed, and trying to get the children out fo the house.

In Miles end scene, when hes talking about how Quint "wont let him leave" hes surrounded by red. I think what he says could also mean that the Trauma Quint inflicted on him wont leave him. yknow,,, PTSD.

and in the "ending" that shoudlnt be mentioned

The doll that Miles compares Kate too because its broken is wearing red

and in the last scene the bed and kates outfit is red, when kate succumbs to her mental illness or whatever they were trying to portray.

[theturningsucks]

If Kate had mental health training 90% of the movie wouldnt of happend

[theturningsucks]

MIles fairchild scene analysis

TW// talks about SA and grooming, not graphic.

these arent all the scenes, just the ones i found important to MIles's characterization

in the bathroom: Doing what quint groomed him to do, he looks back at kate when she looks away I think hes confused why she didnt look/come in

Ball in hallway: trying to protect flora, not allowing an unkown adult to be around flora for any amount of time. drawing Kates attention away from Flora and onto him.

Bed "kiss" scene: genuinely trying to apologize, doing what Quint groomed him to do, kissing to apologize.

Horse riding: repeating what Quint told him, trying to compliment her in the way Quint did to him.

Car: kate isnt listening to Flora when she asks her to stop, MIles will take it to the extreme to make sure Flora is listend to. and he knows kates somewhat scared of him so that leds to him yelling "stop or ill fucking kill you"

keeping the Lights on won't keep you safe: "yea lol i know you're afraid of being SA by Quint but keeping the lights on didnt help me so it isnt going fo help you"

Tattoo: Trying to give her to compliment to get on her good side, but he doesnt understand that isnt appropriate

Leave like everyone else: Miles is sorta in this constant back and forth of wanting Kates attention and being deathly afraid of her, he looks suprised and dissapointed she actually does leave.

CD: dissociating into window, listen to the lyrics of the song Miles is listening to (mother - courtney love)

Kate: “i know u were close” triggering PTSD memoris of quint, gripping leg trying to calm self down. Playing drums to try to shut kate up and stop himself from crying

mrs jessels Diary: Quint was stalking and preying on mrs jessel why wouldnt he do it to Miles who he was “best friends with”. Even if he didn’t SA him why wouldn’t he at least forcefully involve him in the sexualization of mrs jessel. Thats in itself is extremely traumatic to a 12-14 yr old

Miles and the swan (deleted scene, also in a dream sequence): MIles says“it isnt me” despite having blood on his hands, meaning it litterly isnt him he doesnt want to do these things but he was conditioned to. 

Horse chase (dream sequence): seeing quint phase with him, showing how Kate is starting to understand the impact Quint had on him. flora being an obstacle. Not in a mean way but Miles doesnt allow for his actual struggles to show through, his whole thing is to protect her but with her there kate cant help him.

[theturningsucks]

Miles Fairchild and Trauma

Avoidance, fear, aggression

Keep reading

[theturningsucks]

wow this person has such excellent points, totally wasn't me who (badly) wrote them.

adding onto this and the miles fairchild is autistic bandwagon, im probably most likely autistic and i love picking one outfit combo and beating it into the ground, and then some more.

(because of sensory reasons)

So its very relatable that he looked at a sweater & jean combo and went, "yup this is it"

Headcannon/theory (sorta) for The Turning

Tw// mention of sexual abuse

During the The Turning we see that the only thing Miles wears is sweaters, and I have a theory on why. Now the type of sweaters he wears are chunky knit sweaters and cable knit sweaters, both types are an odd texture, and I think he wears odd textures to counteract dissociation. And if you consider the fact that Miles did get sexually abused by Quint, you will agree that Miles deals with the symptioms of PTSD. One symtpiom of PTSD is dissociation, In the scene where Kate enters Miles room to give him the CD she bought, we see Miles staring out a window with a blank expression, this is where I believe he was dissociating. One way to deal with dissociation is with odd textures, so in order for Miles to be mentally there to protect Flora he wears odd textures.

(I'm not an expert in PTSD, so if you see anything wrong please let me know.)