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Now that I finished the event, I’d say Clovis and Mr. Bevil is obviously a portrayal to Edgar’s relationship with Sarai. Especially with the whole Clovis feeling scammed out of what was rightfully his and Edgar’s mention of wanting something in return for all that Sarai took from him in his 1st letter, both mindsets driving them to kill. But something was still bothering me cause the tie directly around the neck still felt very intentional and part of me wonders if it was to link him to Roman. For anyone who didn’t read the event, Roman was a painter who worked under Mr. Bevil before Clovis and he was basically turned into an art slave by Mr. Bevil with an awful contract that led him to take his own life. When Mr. Bevil begins to worry that the “curse” Roman put on him is coming to kill him, he tries to get right by finding Roman’s daughter and reimbursing her. Key thing to note for reference to Edgar tho is the exploitation. I think Roman and Clovis are two sides of Edgar’s experience with Sarai, both falling under the “young, promising artists” Mr. Bevil is said to be obsessed with (btw, obsession with young, promising artists sounds so gross…).

I also keep thinking about the more slow, long-winded, and less violent murder attempts that Clovis made. Kind of makes me think about the implications that full-blown murder wasn’t Edgar’s first choice in handling Sarai (I mean it was still murder attempts, but you get my point on not wanting to directly take a life). And Roman being abused so bad he took his own life I feel gives a clear message of how Sarai was affecting Edgar mentally if the hallucinations weren’t enough of an indication. (Which apparently they’re not cause I still see ppl acting like Edgar killing Sarai is a cut and dry “awful” thing and saw someone equate his actions to Richard 💀)

I was thinking (cause you know how I’m always thinking) about the way Edgar’s death is set up in the Sherlock Holmes crossover. He’s hanging, so obviously everyone is immediately going to jump to assuming he killed himself. But this is Sherlock Holmes we’re talking about, so it’s always a murder. I feel the way Edgar’s death in this crossover is set up like a suicide is similar to his experiment file. Both of them set up his death as if it was something he wanted and actively worked toward.

While I believe we don’t know enough about Edgar’s canon death to know the exact circumstances of why he let himself die, it can be assumed Sherlock Edgar’s death was against his will. Most likely similar to Edgar’s canon death. In general, I’d put money on Edgar’s acceptance of death being more complex than just suicide like Orpheus portrayed it

(And it may be worthwhile to note, this isn’t the first time Edgar has been portrayed having a death that gets misconstrued post-mortem. Narcissus had something similar where the princess narcissus is the reincarnation of took her own life as an act of defiance against having to marry crescent knight and her execution but had it rewritten in a fairytale to center around crescent knight, taking her own life to make the crescent knight realize the error of his ways. The fictional retelling ends up becoming more well known while the true story was basically lost to time until Lady Truth unearthed it)

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Feels unfinished but I was getting sick of looking at it. Any tips would be appreciated too cause something feels missing but I don’t know what

Updates I’ve made so far:

Added highlights

Tried to add more contrast between Chloe, Vera and the background

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The way Orpheus talks about Edgar feels so reminiscent of the way a lot of the fandom talks about him. Orpheus tries to dictate all of Edgar’s actions to very specific moments in his life. His mother and Ella’s deaths, Sarai, his giftedness. It all makes Edgar sound like a creature of tragedy, as if woe is something he can’t escape because it is inherently tied to Edgar’s existence. But when you compare it to the way Edgar describes what happened in his own words in his 3rd letter, this is false. Edgar attributes the bad things in his life as a reflection of the culture that he grew up around, and by extension has the autonomy to leave it. He can escape the tragedy that follows him by leaving the aristocracy, which he does.

When you get rid of Edgar’s ability to escape suffering, it makes it consume him. He has to suffer by nature, but I don’t think this is true. Given how hope and a reverence for life are things that Edgar constantly brings up, especially in his final deduction where he says life is odd, yet pleasant.

Like I said, I feel like this reflects the way a lot of people look at Edgar, even people who like him. They strip him of his happiness or hopeful moments, and when those portrayals are more blatant and unable to be talked around, they wave if off as a mischaracterization on Netease’s part or a character alteration to make Edgar fit into a certain storyline. They don’t respect his happiness, friendliness, or hope as actual facets of his personality. This ends up underselling his entire character because his goal minus the painting metaphors is basically rekindling his love of life and finding beauty in the world outside of his abusive/neglectful home. If you make him unable to find hope, he’s fighting for nothing and won’t gain a thing. Especially if you characterize him as feeling that way.

This is also REALLY important for the overall story and message of game 5 in my opinion

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Hello! How are you doing?

Just wanted to ask a question to make things clear since you seem to know a lot. Do you know when did edgar's father hire sarai as his teacher? Was it before both his mother and little sister's death or after? Or somewhere in between?

TLDR: There isn’t an exact confirmed age but the closest we have to one is 10 which is after Ella and his mother’s deaths, but an argument can be made that he was younger based on speculation

Hi! The closest thing to a confirmed age we have for when Sarai entered Edgar’s life was when he was 10 with the whole “on my tenth birthday, he spoke” deduction which would be after his mom and Ella’s deaths, but there are mentions of Sarai before that deduction so it’s hard to get an exact age. I’d say it was most likely after his mom passed, but possibly before Ella passed since in his 1st letter Edgar talks about becoming a famous and well known artist which plays into what Sarai taught him about praise being the highest form of love. Especially since Edgar finds that goal foolish once he gets older, possibly hinting at it being something he was influenced to pursue.

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I was thinking (cause you know how I’m always thinking) about the way Edgar’s death is set up in the Sherlock Holmes crossover. He’s hanging, so obviously everyone is immediately going to jump to assuming he killed himself. But this is Sherlock Holmes we’re talking about, so it’s always a murder. I feel the way Edgar’s death in this crossover is set up like a suicide is similar to his experiment file. Both of them set up his death as if it was something he wanted and actively worked toward.

While I believe we don’t know enough about Edgar’s canon death to know the exact circumstances of why he let himself die, it can be assumed Sherlock Edgar’s death was against his will. Most likely similar to Edgar’s canon death. In general, I’d put money on Edgar’s acceptance of death being more complex than just suicide like Orpheus portrayed it

(And it may be worthwhile to note, this isn’t the first time Edgar has been portrayed having a death that gets misconstrued post-mortem. Narcissus had something similar where the princess narcissus is the reincarnation of took her own life as an act of defiance against having to marry crescent knight and her execution but had it rewritten in a fairytale to center around crescent knight, taking her own life to make the crescent knight realize the error of his ways. The fictional retelling ends up becoming more well known while the true story was basically lost to time until Lady Truth unearthed it)

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Infernal sin and goetia

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bloody queen

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Thinking about this one person who said Edgar most likely wasn’t sexually abused bc Patricia’s mom’s rape was more explicit and just… no?

I’m not saying it didn’t happen, but it was also done through implication. Not once do they ever say Patricia’s mom was raped, but by establishing that Patricia’s father was a slave owner, her mom calls her a bastard (therefore disowning the father), and a curse runs thru her blood due to her conception the audience can easily infer that her father raped her mother. It’s also just the basic history of slavery.

Similarly, if you look at the way Sarai moved, it’s literally textbook child predator. He approached a vulnerable child (Mom and sister recently died and made Edgar distant from his father), used something he knew Edgar was interested in to get closer to him, skewed Edgar’s perception of love (the whole praise is the highest form of love) then proceeding to praise tf out of Edgar, isolating him from everyone else (teaching him “true art” and Edgar’s 1st letter talking about how he used to think only Sarai understood him), trying to interact with Edgar privately (leaving a note in Edgar’s book to meet with him therefore meaning no one else knew this was happening), and the general physicality of what Edgar describes is super alarming. Edgar’s dream includes Sarai putting his hands on him and forces him to go along with what he wants has a connotation, especially considering that Chinese censorship laws don’t allow for anything too explicit. Netease has to use implicity because they literally can’t say anything outright.

And considering the Da Vinci skin, the way Da Vinci’s relationship with *Salai* mirrors Edgar’s relationship with *Sarai* and with Da Vinci having sexual relations with Salai? Come on now

Lastly, and this is more so out of ppl’s control since they usually take what they’re presented in game and don’t search for the original Chinese translation to find any translation shortcomings which is fair, but in the original deductions when Edgar is describing his dream he makes a point to bring up the paint was “sticky”

Translation (mind u it’s google translate so it’s not perfect): Diary 1: I had a strange dream, the gentleman held my hand and smeared the sticky paint on the canvas...

To go back to that person and what they said about comparing Patricia’s mom’s sexual assault to Edgar’s, it’s also important to remember the circumstances. There’s a major difference in an adult woman explaining the circumstances of Patricia’s conception to her and an, at most, ten year old child trying to word what was happening to him in his diary

It gets to a point where acting like there’s NOTHING implied just seems ignorant.

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juri fanart because i adore her and missed her, going for her route in the RGU visual novel im currently reading

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Death & Punishment in Game 5 (idv)

Authors tend to use a system of reward/punishment to get their message across in their stories. For example, in The Tortoise and the Hare, the hare is punished for his hubris and arrogance by losing the race while the tortoise is rewarded for his dedication and perseverance. This gets across the message of condemning being too prideful and trying to instill the message that being humble and hardworking are better traits to have. Or like in The Boy Who Cried Wolf, it punishes the boy for lying by killing him because no one believed him when he was telling the truth, giving the message not to lie.

Similarly, Identity V also uses this system (though there tends to be more punishment than reward) where characters’ downfalls tend to be directly linked to their unaddressed character flaws. The most common downfall being death. I’ll use the hullabaloo cast as an example. Margaretha’s death links to the way she constantly runs from her past and mistakes, using whatever methods necessary to get out of a bad situation. These different tricks eventually catch up to her, leading her to a melancholy end where she accepts death and stops running (also acting as a small act of autonomy). Joker’s growing propensity for violence in order to obtain what he feels he’s been robbed of at hullabaloo. As sympathetic as that is, he still was not entitled to Margaretha like he felt he was and that entitlement leads him to go as far as to kill himself chasing her. Mike turned a blind eye to the abuse going on in hullabaloo and once he couldn’t ignore it any longer he burned the circus down with him in it. All this just to say, death is usually the narrative tool used for punishment in idv. And even if people don’t fully acknowledge it as such, I feel as though the fandom subconsciously accepts this idea and recognizes it. This is where game 5 comes in, because I’d argue it subverts this standard. Characters are not punished through death, but instead through living with their guilt. The ultimate punishment in game 5 is to lay in a bed you made.

Chloe’s punishment for killing Vera is not dying, it is living with the memory that she did it. Having to look in the mirror every day and see the face of the innocent person she killed out of jealousy and misunderstanding. Jose is not killed for trying to poison Patricia and ultimately getting Kevin poisoned. He’s is ridiculed for it and lives in shame for his actions. Even Kevin tries to, in a way, escape his guilt by drinking the poison, but that wouldn’t properly address it. So instead, he continues to live with the guilt of failing Angelina. The narrative will not allow him to die until he addresses it. And with the way they keep saying something happened during Patricia’s ritual that made her confront herself and severed her ties to her homeland, I can only assume that the guilt theme is coming for her too. And guess what? She didn’t die (at least not for that), but she lives with whatever decision she chose. Even her 6th letter alludes to this with the witch in Cap-Hatien saying she chose her path and would have to take responsibility for her actions.

Going further to death not being used as a punishment in game 5; the most overt death, Edgar’s, is treated as a reward. Edgar is the only one to have explicitly died, and yet his death is described as exactly what he wanted. He got the ending he was striving for. Despite dying, he has been rewarded by the narrative. This often gets lost in translation because a lot of people rob Edgar of his autonomy when describing his death in the fandom… but that’s neither here nor there. The point still stands, Edgar’s death was his choice and got him what he wanted.

To circle back to that fandom comment, like I said; whether subconsciously or consciously, people have accepted death as the narrative punishment in idv’s storyline. And rightfully so, it usually is. However, because people have become so used to that being the case, the moment death is not used as a narrative punishment, people begin to ignore what’s going on in the story to flow with the status quo. Like revoking Edgar’s autonomy in his death, or glamorizing Patricia killing him, or assuming Jose and Chloe are dead despite their supposed deaths being up in the air more than anything. You could even push to say people skirting around the attempted poisoning being spearheaded by Jose because, of the three people who are usually questioned most about it, Jose is the only one not marked as a sacrifice. And because of that the fandom assumes he must be wholly innocent, for if he wasn’t, surely he’d die. Right? They pass over the immense amount of guilt he felt for it or blame Chloe and Edgar for the entire thing including his guilt. But what must be understood is his guilt is his own and that is his narrative punishment for his actions.

I feel that when it comes to game 5, people should sort of relinquish the idea of murder being the end all be all worst punishment when, narratively at least, having to live with the guilt of what you have done and bearing the weight of betraying yourself for the rest of your life is a fate worse than death

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I feel like an important aspect of Chloe’s character is to understand how inherently suicidal her actions are. A lot of people hone in on how her actions are to escape her guilt and by extension her accountability, which is true. But, how she’s going about it is basically suicide, it’s ego death. She’s not just wiping the memory of what she did to Vera, she’s erasing the concept of Chloe as a whole. She doesn’t just want to forget what she did to Vera, she didn’t want to be Chloe anymore. Not just for what she did to Vera, but also from the years of neglect and abandonment she went through. Yes her actions are partially for her own gratification so she’s not weighed down by her guilt anymore, but it’s also deeply rooted in a deep hatred for herself.

And as for all her bravado and arrogance? That’s just her imitating what she remembers Vera acting like. She doesn’t act as herself, she plays the role of Vera. All of the conceitedness and haughtiness is just for show to continue her act as Vera. Chloe as we’ve seen her was quiet and a little awkward. She was proud, didn’t like accepting help, so I’ll give people that. But she was never someone who was loud and took up space.

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Let me say this in advance: if Edgar’s b-day art this year is golden ratio, I’m going to pop a blood vessel and die. It has been 3 years and literally EVERY b-day art that isn’t the default skin is golden ratio. By his 4th letter, you’ll have 5 a tiers and a whole s tier to work with (granted that s tier is one Netease didn’t wanna make, but it’s still THERE). At this rate, I will accept DA VINCI for the art.

If I have to see that blonde p.o.s with those stupid stripped pantaloons one more time…

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Btw, Patricia definitely organized game 5 right? Like, you know how Mike organized the hullabaloo game to catch the person who started the fire and Emma organized the veteran game for revenge? Yeah, there’s like no way it wasn’t Patricia who set up game 5

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Ship so underrated that your fanart is the only post under the tag on tumblr and there’s only one fic on AO3 that’s about the two of them fighting over someone else

Alt versions:

No sunglasses

No coat

No sunglasses or coat

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Scrap because I randomly started hating my art style and lost any motivation to finish this. Multicolor printing, you WILL come home

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I feel like the discussions around if Edgar was SA’d by Sarai or not are less about a genuine breakdown of what happened to Edgar and more focused on if Edgar sustained the “right kind of abuse” to see if what he did to Sarai was reasonable and I don’t know how I feel about that.

And with the way I see some people in this fandom act about abuse that isn’t physical (i.e. neglect, emotional abuse, psychological abuse, exploitation, non-sexual grooming, etc). I dunno, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth

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I don’t really know how to put this into words, but imma try. I feel like ppl focus a little too much on Ella and Mrs. Valden’s deaths as personal experiences. And what I mean by that is it feels like they sometimes get treated as the sole cause of any of Edgar’s troubles and worries while kinda skimming over Sarai’s abuse. And I mean actually breaking down all that Sarai’s abuse implies, not just jump cutting to when Edgar kills him. Granted I think that also comes with how idv’s storytelling works, no time for slow burn. There’s little mention of the trust Edgar did have for Sarai before Sarai started to become more blatantly abusive/exploitive which is part of what made his abuse all the more insidious.

Furthermore, I feel people treat what happened to Edgar too much like a personal tragedy. Like it was removed from everything else around him and the family deaths and Sarai’s abuse were just unfortunate events that just so happened to happen to Edgar. When in reality, at least based on what his 3rd letter is implying, all of those things happened BECAUSE of everything else around him. Ella’s death, Mrs. Valden’s death, Sarai being able to get away with abusing Edgar so long; all of that only happened because the culture of the aristocracy allows it. In Sarai’s case, even rewards it. The environment Edgar grew up in plays a major role in what led to the tragedies in Edgar’s life, but I feel it’s one of the more under talked about aspects of his character. He doesn’t just hate the aristocracy to hate it, he also recognizes that the aristocracy’s culture enabled basically every major bad event in his life.

That’s another reason why his 3rd letter is so important, it’s because it marks the point where he tries to get away from it. Killing Sarai was not the “fix-all” to Edgar’s problems, leaving the aristocracy was. This is why he still has art block even after killing Sarai. He’s still stuck with the same aristocracy either way. By not acknowledging the way Edgar’s environment was part of the reason things ended up the way they did, it makes his bitterness at the aristocracy seem unfounded and like he’s just angry at the other people around him for no good reason. It negatively affects a lot of his storytelling by not acknowledging this part since it’s not only the root of his problems, it’s also a key theme for game 5’s plot line. Everyone in that group is dealing with an unhealthy family situation which affects them in many different ways. This theme doesn’t hold up as well if Edgar’s example of this gets skipped over. And that’s not even covering how his example is arguably the MOST important because it’s the only portrayal to show cutting off the unhealthy family dynamic and trying to push forward past them.

I’m just kinda sick of Edgar’s disdain for the aristocracy being treated like a random add-on to his character and not a deliberate character choice made to further his and the overall narrative.