#zigeuners

[twafordizzy]

Esther Kinsky schrijft langs de rivier

bron beeld: lemonde.fr Als vissig type, die naar woorden en zinnen hapt, heb ik een voorliefde voor romans die zich nadrukkelijk langs het water afspelen. Dat kan beek, rivier, meer of zee zijn. In Langs de rivier van de Duitse Esther Kinsky (1956) is dat een rivier. Niet zo voor de hand liggend is dat de Duitse schrijfster, dichter en vertaalster daarvoor de River Lea in de UK gebruikt als decor…

[qldqueerboy]

It was an impulsive action you took today to lure lady luck to your table but whatever it was it certainly worked. The difficulty now is maintaining your positivity that what you have gained can be built on into something greater than allow it to dwindle away into something that can only bring sorrow or disappointment.

[dreamyberry]

Dinners I cooked 26 Feb. - 5 Mar. 2023 🍳 🍜 🧀 🍝 🍅 🥕 🫑

[universallyarbiterinternet]

„Lustig ist das Zigeunerleben“ - Gesang: Freddy Quinn -  Aufnahme aus dem Jahr 1965

[robertpennekamp]

Symbool

SYMBOOL, LOGO, VORM OF SYMBOLENTAAL Deze installatie bestaat uit ongeveer 100 in gevonden hout uitgezaagde symbolen. De symbolen zijn ontstaan uit symbolentaal van dieven, zwervers, zwervers, zigeuners en primitieve volkeren. De symbolen, logo’s en vormen zijn door ontwikkeld tot een nieuwe fase met een nieuwe betekenis. Vervolgens is onderzocht welke symbolen qua vorm het meest interessant zijn,…

[karlplepelits]

DASS DICH NICHT DER SENSENMANN

Jugendkrimi, frisch geschlüpft

Dass dich nicht der Sensenmann holt!

Neugierige Leute sterben bald!

Solche Warnungen bekommt ein aufgeweckter Lausbub von Erwachsenen zu hören.

Trotzdem versucht er auf eigene Faust, Mördern auf die Spur zu kommen. Und mit Erfolg. Zur Seite steht ihm eine kluge Freundin.

Und doch: Zweimal holt ihn um ein Haar der Sensenmann. Denn wer bereits gemordet hat, hat wenig Scheu, erneut zu morden. Etwa wenn er als SS-Aufseher im KZ schon reichlich Erfahrungen gesammelt hat.

Und hier der Link:

Dass dich nicht der Sensenmann holt!

Neugierige Leute sterben bald!

Solche Warnungen bekommt ein aufgeweckter Lausbub von Erwachsenen zu hören.

Trotzdem versucht er auf eigene Faust, Mördern auf die Spur zu kommen. Und mit Erfolg. Zur Seite steht ihm eine kluge Freundin.

Und doch: Zweimal holt ihn um ein Haar der Sensenmann. Denn wer bereits gemordet hat, hat wenig Scheu, erneut zu morden. Etwa wenn er als SS-Aufseher im KZ schon reichlich Erfahrungen gesammelt hat.

[dykepuffs]

Hello! Hope I'm not bothering you but I found your post about "How Do I Make My Fictional Gypsies Not Racist?" and I wanted to ask you something if it's ok with you. The post cached my attention because you use the term gypsy with easiness and I'm curious about how it's that, because as far as the internet says it's a derogatory term.

It's not the first time I've seen somebody use that word, but the person who used it was Roma, if I remember correctly.

This is absolutely not to accuse you of anything, I just want to know your perspective! Thank you and have a nice day!

Hallo!

Yes, I hoped I'd answered this is my main post but, I'll answer it more explicitly and from more angles here - It'll be in sections because I have a lot of thoughts and they're not in any particular order.

I won't be using asterisks to obscure any words in this post, because precision is important and I don't want to leave any ambiguities about which words I mean, so CN for words for Romani people that are often derogatory, for the rest of the post.

1) Is Gypsy a derogatory word?

Gypsy is an untranslatable word, in that the exact lexical field covered by "Gypsy" isn't matched by any words in other languages. Sometimes, people translate tzigane, gitano, zigeuner, cíkanská etc as "Gypsy" but that's really imprecise and causes more problems - These words aren't all calques or related.

The ones which sound broadly like "sigan" (Cigan, tzigane, zigeuner, cíkanský etc) most likely come via the Balkans and the Ancient Greek word "Athinganoi/Athinganos" - Unambiguously a rude word, untouchable, a caste of itinerant fortune-tellers in the Byzantine Empire, which was applied much in the same way as "Tink/tinker" was applied to Scottish and Irish Travellers - a trade as a synecdoche of a people, and specifically a stigmatised trade at that. And they usually are very much derogatory words (but even then - you will meet Roma living in Romania and Hungary and Czechia etc who do use those words for themselves, and they will have as complicated a relationship with them as we do with Gypsy)

Gypsy... We're less sure. We know it comes from "Egyptians", first applied in Scotland and England to recent Romani migrants in the late 1400s or early 1500s (We see it in the naming of the Egyptians Acts in 1501 and 1531, which refer to both Egyptians and "Counterfeit Egyptians" - Meaning those Romani people, and the local Britons who lived with them, travelled with them and did the same itinerant trades. Presumably, the "Counterfeit Egyptians" of the previous 500 years intermixing with Romani people are why modern Romany (Romanichal, Angloromany, English Travellers, whatever you call us) are so pale compared to southern and eastern European Roma.

But why "Egyptians", we aren't really sure. Top contenders are:

1) The Romani people deliberately passed themselves off as Coptic Egyptians, hoping for welcome as fellow-Christians.

2) Local Britons mistook these brightly-dressed dark-skinned people, speaking an unknown language, for Egyptians.

3) To someone who spoke English, and maybe could recognise French, Dutch, Latin or other especially northern European trading languages, the Romanes language of the time that was closer to Hindi, with Greek and Romanian loanwords, would sound unintelligible - We think that's where we get the English word "Jibberish" and "Jibber" from, from the Romanes word "chib/jib"-"Language". But, potentially, does "Gypsy" come from "Jib-sy", taking the common English slang format of adding "-ies" "-sie" to the end of something to make a name for something from a feature of it (Like "walky-talky" for a portable two way radio, "bluey" to describe a merled dog, "pinky" for a mouse or rabbit before it has fur, "Geordie" and "Cockney" and various other local demonyms) - Potentially we are "The ones that speak the chib" - "the chibsies".

4) It was related to a preexisting racial slur, the idea of "Egyptian" to mean a bizarre, foreign, alien version of something- Hermetics were often called "Egyptian" around the same period, because of their strange rites and beliefs, which were popularly associated with Egypt (As was Hermes Trismagestus).

5) The port area in the Netherlands where they sailed to Scotland from was potentially "Little Egypt" and they were named as such for their port of departure, as migrations are often named for their port of arrival, or departure, or the boat they came on - like talking about Plymouth colonists, Windrush generation, Ellis Island immigrants.

What we do know though, is that the first people that the word Gypsy was applied to, were the ancestors of the modern English-speaking Romany and Kale people of Scotland, England and Wales (ie, my personal ancestors) - Most of whom use "Gypsy" as their preferred word to describe themselves. (Further complications: Other Traveller groups in the UK who also in some contexts will call themselves Gypsies, Water-Gypsies, Irish Gypsies, Gypsy Travellers, who may or may not see themselves as Romani but who often have interlaced family trees and traditions with Romanichal and Kale families.)

Personally, as a Romany Gypsy I usually call myself a Gypsy in English for two reasons:

1) Because in singular, I'd have to choose rom/rawni - not just man/woman but also husband/wife, because our words for adult man/adult woman are the same as the word for husband/wife, and I usually don't want to do that; I'm unmarried, but too old to call myself chavo, and I usually don't want to be explicit about my gender in that way anyway.

2) because the other words for us in English are Romani loanwords. The Romani language is still stigmatised in England, and doubly so Angloromanes, our paralanguage/mixed-language/creole - Children raised speaking it are described as being in "linguistic poverty", we are disciplined at school for "speaking in code" (i still have a speech impediment in Romanes that I don't have in English, after being tortured and humiliated by teachers at school for speaking Romanes. Even getting out a couple of words, I stutter and fail, from shame) - and the police and courts describe our language as "thieves' cant" and further punish us for speaking it, they still treat people speaking it as evidence of planning crimes, a final vestige of those Egyptians Acts which levied the death sentence on anyone speaking Romany.

So when a gorjer prefers that I call myself Rromani rather than Gypsy, I hear that as a demand to perform my language for them, for their titillation and for their comfort, so that they can try to forget that for hundreds of years we have been executed, imprisoned, transported, beaten, and treated as second class citizens, for speaking our language. So, no, gorjers don't get to hear one single beautiful word of our language, they can hear "Gypsy" and their ears can burn with the shame of what they still do to us.

So is Gypsy a word that gorjers should use?

Context matters.

Are you talking about an organisation like the Gypsy Lore Society, or a modern Gypsy And Traveller Exchange, or things made by us like Gypsy Pegs, Gypsy Flowers, Gypsy Bangles, Gypsy Jazz? Go for it, use the capital G, in the same way as you capitalise French food, German engineering, Ukrainian poetry. If an organisation describes itself as being for Roma, don't assume that you can translate that to 'for Gypsies', but likewise you can't assume that 'for Gypsies' can be translated to 'for Roma' - All Roma are Romani, not all Romani are Roma (As in, they might be Sinti, Manouche, Roma, Romanisael, Kale, Romany... etc).

Do you want to describe something made by gorjers as Gypsy-like, or describe a gorjer as being like a Gypsy... Then don't.

There is probably a second post to write about this, on the theory of "Gypsy-ing", how the archetype of the Gypsy is created and applied to populations in different ways, but this is already very long and very tiring so, thank you for bearing with me this far!

[gacougnol]

Karl Theodor Gremmler (1904-1942)

Zigeuner c. 1930

[djuvlipen]

"gypsy water", "zigeuner sauce", "gitanes cigarettes", witches on etsy selling "gypsy blood oils", we are liquids, we are a fragrance, we are food, we are smoke, people love describing us as some disembodied spirit, some vague essence, an abstract concept, but never as actual people just so they can use us to market their product as exotic or mystic. and then we wonder why romani kids feel so disconnected from themselves and their culture. anyway....

[salantami]

Gypsy woman with her children, Holland, 1930s

On 10 December 1942, Heinrich Himmler issued an order to send all Romani (German: Zigeuner, "Gypsies") to concentration camps, including Auschwitz. A separate camp was set up at Auschwitz II-Birkenau, classed as Section B-IIe and known as the Zigeunerfamilienlager ("Gypsy family camp"). The first transport of German Roma arrived on 26 February 1943, and was housed in Section B-IIe. Approximately 23,000 Roma had been brought to Auschwitz by 1944, of whom 20,000 died there.

[nathalieskinoblog]

Chocolat / Chocolat... Ein kleiner Biss genügt

Erscheinungsjahr 2000

121 min

Fazit: Eine schöne Frau und ihre verführerischen Schokoladen-Kreationen lassen 1959 die moralischen Grundfesten eines französischen Provinznests erzittern.

Die romantische Komödie ist ein Plädoyer für Toleranz und Menschlichkeit, ein warmherziges Märchen über das Glück des Lebens und der Liebe jenseits einer asketischen Moral. Juliette Binoche und Johnny Depp speilen sich mit ihrer gefühlvollen Darstellung der verführerischen Vianne und des stürmischen Zigeuners Roux ins Herz der Zuschauer.

Regie: Lasse Hallström

Darsteller: Juliette Binoche, Johnny Depp, Lena Olin, Judy Dench, Carrie-Anne Moss, Alfred Molina, Victoire Thivisol, Aurelien Parent Koenig

[qldqueerboy]

There seems to be a warning today that prior to planning and arranging a huge celebration a conversation needs to take place at how much of your financial budget you are prepared to spend in getting the event off the ground. Too little has the potential of alienating the very person you want to celebrate and acknowledge today for their steed fast loyalty towards you.

[tobacconist]

i repeat myself: THERE ARE NO EGYPTIANS IN EGYPT TODAY.

why do you hate me? because i am a barbarian amongst the barbarians. the americans know how to walk like an egyptian. the zigeuners know, or used to know. I am the one whos image is great in egypt, and the one who has no image amongst the barbarians.

why then do you hate Me? ye who love Me?

the pharaohs armies were swallowed by the sea. and didnt the LORD harden the pharaohs heart? and didnt the pharaohs wife flee with the israelites, bringing with her much gold and jewellery? all those golden jewels, and a fat calf. do you remember? moses was the greatest egyptian who ever lived, and a great magician, and he wore golden horns upon his head, and wrote seven books. yes, seven. and the sixth and seventh were not written in letters but in pictures. and who has read these books? LMFAOROFLOL <- that is the name of a demon. + +OYWNϩ 'EBOΛ 'M'ΦNOYT 'NTE NINOYT~ALLELUJAH, ϫE ΠEϥNAI ϣOΠ ϣA 'ENEϩ+

there are still egyptians here today 🤣 a picture can tell a thousand words. the alehouse is egyptian. and the theatre. the big screen, a black mirror. fun and games. a deck of cards. a transvestite wearing heavy eyelinerkohlblackfvmkvndnvdfmnvfjkfjfejlffkljfkljlfjjjle. once, a pack of nine wolves killed ten sheep, and they knew not how to apportion the tenth sheep amongst themselves fairly. behold then there came the fox full wily who said: it is better that you should share the one sheep amongst yourselves as is your custom, his bones his muscles his guts and his brains; and the other nine carcasses, well, we (teehee) ought to have for ourselves. but of course, the king and queen of the forest were not happy about this, and the situation was soon put to rights. that was a long time ago, and a tale even older: remember how when our grandparents adam and eve were driven out of the garden. and how the LORD imposed a tax on us, that of our labours a tenth should be rendered unto Him, as offering, to be burnt in the fire.. and how their son cain (who is our grandfather) despised this law.

well, all of that was washed away in a great flood. when the waters inundated the land, from above and below. and we sheltered in the arc, and were rocked in the angry sea like th' babby in th' cradle. well, theres much to be said there,

and there is no God but God amen. Most merciful and well gracious. most beneficent and wise. i praise his enduring name.

Ee by gum, does your belly touch your bum?

well, theres much to be said...

and there is a book, a bible of 78 moveable pages, and no one knows who wrote it.

𓀦

[erotomanicpixiedreamgirl]

i do wnat to move to berlin but i’d cry if i was called a zugezogener by native berliners it sounds too close to zigeuner if we’re being quite honest

[abwwia]

... A woman, Polish, Jewish, socialist and painter in Europe during the two world wars, Muter experienced the German occupation of France in hiding in Avignon. Shortly afterwards, having managed to get a divorce, she lost her only child and also her partner, the historian and politician Raymond Lefebvre. She was left sightless until an operation for cataracts allowed her to return to her painting. When she died, at the age of 91, she left the only work she had to the SOS Villages d’Enfants charity. Via miradorarts (2021)

repost from: Polish Women Artists @sztukakobiet

Mela Muter is the pseudonym used by Maria Melania Mutermilch (Apr 26, 1876 – May 14, 1967), the first professional Jewish painter in Poland. She lived most of her life in France. Muter's painting career began to flourish after she moved to Paris from Poland in 1901 at the age of twenty-five. via Wikipedia

Mela Muter, Zigeuner familie (Gypsy family), 1930, private collection. AWARE.

Mela Muter, Self-Portrait, 1909. Mirador de les arts. Detail.

Portrait of Mela Muter with a group of Polish Artists in Barcelona. From left to right: Witold Gordon Jurgielewicz, Elie Nadelman, Leopold Gottlieb, Mela Muter and Michal Mutermilch, 1912. Photography: Francesc Serra. City of Girona.  Archive Library Rafael i María Teresa Santos Torroella (Galeries Dalmau collection).

read: Mela Muter – Accomplished Portraitist and Devoted Mother by Magda Michalska   27.01.2023 www.dailyartmagazine.com/mother-portraits-by-mela-muter/

Although in her day she was most famous for portraying the members of the Parisian Boheme, Mela Muter was deeply fascinated with capturing the intimacy permeating the daily lives of mothers. In fact, motherhood became the most recurring theme in her original oeuvre which shows influences ranging from Symbolism, Post-Impressionism, and Cubism.

#sztukakobiet #MelaMuter #womensart #PalianShow #MariaMelaniaKlingsland #MelaMutermilch #PolishWomenArtists #polishemigrant #frenchpainter #artherstory #Herstory

[armandjolras]

The pronunciation of charmante in Great Comet annoys me so much because it could have easily been changed to something like “très charmante” and still fit the meter. It’s not a good excuse that Helene is too stupid to know the pronunciation because every Russian noble would be fluent in French and at the very least be able to pronounce basic words. But I feel like this inflexibility towards lyric changes is a general issue with GC, particularly how Malloy left in so many uses of g*psy with the excuse that it’s not meant in a negative way like ??? A “positive” stereotype (of being carefree and liberated) can still be harmful. It would have been so easy to change (“goodbye my lusty lovers” or something like that). It’s the same issue as Elisabeth’s leben frei wie ein Zigeuner and even Schönbrunn prod cared enough to change that