#you just say whatever you want abt plato

[esoclectic]

things plato would love about US democracy:

not an actual democracy

controlled by the rich

things plato would hate about US democracy:

the rich are idiots

people are allowed to be loudly wrong all the time

it grants ppl a(n albeit ineffectual) voice and lets them (at least believe they) have the right to make decisions abt the state/their lives/etc

[hua-fei-hua]

actually my ideal role in a fan community would be that of philosopher, where i start asking mods/admins questions about the rules and what they Mean in order to obtain Maximum Clarity (for Neurodivergent Reasons(tm) ofc) and probably also promote greater understanding btwn community members and casuals looking in

[unproduciblesmackdown]

I've not read much Narnia but I DO know that Susan's wasted potential is just goddamned tragic

yeah like all she gets to do in the books really is be the Stand-In Mom to suggest counteradventurous things so that the others don’t have to consider those ideas themselves and can tell susan that no, the only sensible course of action is whatever weird goal aslan is throwing at these children

in the movies at least her naysaying / “putting the brakes on everything” trait is ascribed to her being Logical rather than being a surrogate mother, and she gets to actually be in the action and stab people in the dick in prince caspian which is an underrated movie, but it’s still like. The Girl Character Gets In The Way Of The Adventuring and her “arc” being to get the sexy boyf she deserves in the prince casp film is like, better than no real arc but also just Required Heterosexuality when a) really their “courtship” is exchanging lingering glances between caspian’s constant sexual tension with peter and b) she deserves a sexy badass gf actually, and c) what would be REALLY compelling if you’re gonna do “star-crossed lovers from literal different worlds” is like, wtf went down in that like 10 yr period thats always glossed over in which the pevensies become grownass monarchs? everyone was single when they just disappeared back to being 11 yr old english schoolchildren? and how fucked up is that fact that they got thrown back to having the complete opposite role in a different world and at a different biological age. tf

speaking of tf, narnia is kinda fucked and shit doesnt make sense there and the rules are just arbitrary and weird and everything’s made up but the points DO matter. what i’m saying is the whole world and the missions given to random children DO deserve to have some analytical logical character to say, hey, what in the fucking hell

but of course, annoyingly, a major theme in the books thanks to lewis is that Christian Faith is the only REAL logical path,

(quick aside to say that his infamous god/bad/mad or whatever argument for why you MUST logically accept jesus as your savior is soooooooo fuckin flawed like its premises are SO FLIMSY and SO IMMEDIATELY OBVIOUSLY FALSE and he’s just slapping it in lww like shut the fuck up goddd)

and but also faith is an undeniable Gut Feeling, and the only way to reject this logic / inherent instinctive feeling is to consciously lie to yourself and others. hence the book about evil lying atheists stealing babies and locking them in plato’s cave and it’s like. fucking christ, lewis

so anyways the Logical Character who questions jesus is always gonna be treated as being silly and exasperating in lewis’s version of how one should react to an allegorical christian world. despite the fact that it doesn’t quite translate properly to be nonchristian irl and to be questioning aspects of the physical reality of the magical world around you

which is why it makes NO fucking sense when it’s just slipping in like, “oh susan just doesn’t think narnia is real anymore” in the last battle? like, yeah lewis wanted to put in his own “i was christian when i was younger but then i stopped being christian until later in my adult life and now i won’t stop apologizing*” trait in the books, but throwing it on susan doesnt make any damn sense because it’s not the same as deciding something that literally happened to you didnt really happen?? she lived in narnia for like a fuckin decade!!!!! of course ppl are gonna interpret this Susan Rejection as being ascribed to that “she’s too Feminine for righteous christendom” implication. b/c susan rejecting the existence of narnia MAKES NO SENSE thanks lewis!!

but very little abt narnia makes proper sense or isn’t contradictory and like…if your whole thing is backing up your faith w Logic Based Arguments, maybe “self-contradictory” and “built on your own personal assumptions” isn’t the best result.

(one example: lucy is of course the Closest To Jesus b/c christian faith is totally bound up in the uncorrupted innocence of young children, yet in prince caspian when aslan is playing the “elusive god” role, lucy is the only one who actually sees aslan? like, that’s not exactly the best metaphor for faith, is it? shouldnt she be the one who DOESN’T need to actually see aslan. you couldn’t have come up with a different way to convey what faith is like. god i’m just)

Death Of The Author the pevensies are gay, fuckin commit to making it more of a world that makes sense rather than lewis’s vehicle for allegory, aka Gut Instinct That Jesus Is God is NOT a good guiding principle and maybe let susan’s take on the bullshit around her actually matter……let her have a gf…….give us the proper impact of the pevs being in narnia for their formative years into adulthood and then being unceremoniously dropped back into a different life…….give us more about susan and peter being the first to have to accept living w the knowledge of another world they can’t be part of…..susan being the only Not Dead Pevensie at the end there like jfc aslan………kinda fucked up you have to be faithful enough to Die……

anyways yeah tldr susan got a better interpretation in the films by a mile but she still deserves better, narnia’s fuckery deserves to be scrutinized and questioned and susan is trying to survive here so maybe that’s a Good Approach actually

[kissykiwi]

green eyes, red handed (part 2)

wherein y/n finds harry confusing. (college au, 2700 words)

[previous]

Y/N’s head swam as she walked out of class, full of education and politics and society.  They had a paper coming up, three topics possible from the entirety of the work, and she couldn’t figure how she’d be able to pick when she had so much to say about all of it.

“So, what are yeh thinking for the upcoming essay?  Worth fifteen percent, y’know.”

Y/N was startled to be addressed by the low, thick voice of the person she apparently bothered so much, and cut her eyes sideways as Harry bounded up beside her.  How fun, swinging back in the other direction.

“I was thinking of the one centering around justice,” she said warily.  She might wanna kill him half the time, but when they weren’t at each other’s throats he was a pretty good study partner, and Plato was not a joke.  “Figured that I could expand on the definition by taking the classical ambiguity of it.”

“Tha’s not a bad idea.”

“Yeah.  Do me a solid and don’t steal it, will ya?”

Harry laughed as Y/N raised an eyebrow in a perfect arch.  A girl down the hall fumbled her books.  

“Now, now, didn’t say it was good, did I?” he quipped, tone remaining light.  Y/N could see this for what it was, the peace offering that followed every spat and kept them on careful even ground, but she was ready to accept it.  Their relationship had been like this for three years now, and she had learned how to prolong the amiable Harry that came between fights, and how much she preferred him.

“Fine then Plutarch, what’re you doing?”

“The use of fantastical arguments in philosophical debate.”

“Dense,” she said, surprised.  They only had about three thousand words, and he was certainly taking quite the bite.  It was a gentle reminder of how much was hiding in that thick skull of his.

“Behind this pretty face is quite th’ mind, Y/L/N,” Harry sighed dramatically, pushing the door open for them both.

“It’s behind a face anyway.”

“See I could get mad at tha’ comment, but because I’m a kind and gentle soul, I will instead do as Clark asked and pass along the message that everyon’s stoppin’ in Fleming and then settin’ up in Old Quad for lunch.”

Definitely offering the proverbial olive branch then.  Often Harry would skip letting her know when these plans would happen (and Ginny always forgot) and she’d make it halfway back to her apartment before she knew that her friends had snagged a coveted slice of lawn.  In return, Y/N offered him a careful smile and a thanks.  Harry quirked a corner of his mouth back, opened it to say something, but was interrupted before he could.

“Y/N!”

Turning about, she saw black hair, blue eyes, an unassuming smile.  It was Mitchell, from her Human Skeletal Biology course.  He was sweet, so sweet, but nice and naive had never much been her thing and as many times as she’d tried to let him down gently, he just kept coming back.

“Mitchell, hey,” she said, voice kind and decidedly lukewarm, turning back towards Fleming and a now farther ahead Harry as the new addition came to her pace.

“Hey!  I know you said you were busy last Thursday with schoolwork and all, but I thought new week, new schedule, right?”

Y/N bit her lower lip hard, frustration sparking in her gut.  No matter what she tried he wouldn’t take the hint, and she was inching ever closer to the cruelty of brutal honesty.  There were days where she just wanted to say yes, fine, let’s go!  But she knew how uncomfortable she would be saying yes, had been down that road before often enough to tell.  Sometimes people just weren’t compatible, and two conversations with this guy had told her that he didn’t have enough pushback to keep her interested.

“Listen, I-”

“”Oo’s this then?”

Y/N looked up at Harry, caught off guard by his sudden interest and the arm he’d thrown about her shoulder.  Casual physical contact wasn’t out of the question between them (they were in the same friend group after all) but the warm bicep pressing into the back of her neck was certainly more than usual.  She suppressed the urge to lean back into the touch.

“I- This is Mitchel.  We have ANT334 together,” she replied.

“Ah, Mitchell.  I remember hearin’ ‘bout this one.”

“This one?”  She could see Mitchell’s face turning, a sour expression creeping across his features as he repeated what Harry had said.

“Yeah mate, one of ‘er boys. What were yeh sayin’ though?”

Now Mitchell was positively frowning, mostly at Y/N.  “I- nevermind, actually.”  Though it was just the time for food he turned away, booking off down the hall towards the doors they had all just entered through and away from the student commons.  Y/N turned towards Harry, a confused look on her face.

“When did you ever hear me talk about him?”

“Y/L/N, yeh bitch about how he’s not gettin’ the message two t’ three times per hour every time he asks yeh out,”  he said, rolling his eyes.

“Yeah, but I never thought you actually listened.  Looks like I won’t have to worry about him anymore, anyhow,” she said, thinking with some measure of relief of the displeasure on Mitchell’s face.

“And we won’ have t’ listen t’yeh anymore. Everyone wins!  Now hurry up ‘n get yer food, I wanna get a spot in th’ shade before Todd sprawls out and declares it all as his.”

Instead of getting annoyed, Y/N picked up a sandwich and some juice and paid in an example of decision making in record time.  Harry was right, Todd was an absolute slut for getting out of the sun, and she wasn’t much for the heat that seemed to ramp up as summer folded into early fall.  She and Harry both got irritable in the heat, so shade was probably the best idea.  Harry seemed pleased to have her agreeing, and they walked out to their friends in a warm and unexpected peace.

Old Quad was beautiful.  Lush, bright green grass (and props to the grounds crew for that, because it was pretty well trafficked) boxed in by the big, old founding buildings of their school, all dark stones and gothic arches.  The corners left spaces to get in and out but it felt like a universe inside the universe of the school, filled with cool breezes and big trees and the noises of college students taking a breath between classes.  The ever present crowd of students fanned out across the lawn for the peak noon lunch hour, but the blindingly pale hand of Ginny waving ecstatically from under her favorite oak tree showed that their friends had grabbed prime seating.

“This way,” Y/N mumbled, grabbing Harry’s hand distractedly as people flowed around them.  Their friends liked to call Y/N the gazelle because of her careful feet and how good she was at picking through a crowd- ironic when compared to her inability to walk over flat ground but then there you were.  Harry, on the other hand, had enormous feet, both of which were left.  Last week he’d fallen on a girl and squashed her sandwich, and the starry eyes she’d given him had inflated his ego to truly unbearable proportions.

“Holding hands?  My god, maybe world peace is realistic after all,” Clark laughed as they walked up to the group, Ginny staring with raised brows at their connected hands.  Y/N rolled her eyes and plopped onto the blanket laid across the grass, leaving Harry to take his hand back.

“More like keeping him from taking out half the quad.  I’m fairly sure the lovely young lady from last week is still thinking of ways to incorporate falling into a pickup line.  If he dazzles any more that way, we’ll never have another lunch in peace,” she replied, plastic crinkling as she unwrapped her lunch.  

“Not my fault tha’ these eyes make women fall in love, darlin’,” Harry replied smugly.  Y/N maintained eye contact with him as she took a large bite of her sandwich, chewing slowly.

“Nope, still wanna strangle you.  Who does that work on again?”

Todd sighed happily.  “God, Y/N, we need to bottle whatever keeps you from falling over sideways for this twat and vaccinate the rest of the campus with it.  You know that guy I’ve been trying to get closer to in physics, the cute tall one?  Came up to me and asked for Harry’s number this morning.”

“Well-” Ginny started, but Y/N was faster.

“Oh, not Andre, really?  I liked him, too.”

“I’m gonna ignore tha’,” Harry said breezily.  “Sorry though mate, ’s shit.”

“Yeah,” Todd shrugged.  “I gave it to him though.”

Idly, Y/N wondered what Harry might do.  Clark liked to say that Harry played with his food, never settling for long with one partner and keeping them on their toes if he ever took a brief landing, and she didn’t know if she could stand watching him flirt with the guy Todd had been on about for nearly a month now.  It seemed like the whole blanket agreed, breath held as they waited for Harry to reply.  Y/N could feel Ginny’s eyes on her.

“I’ll put in a good word for yeh then.”

Y/N’s phone buzzed in her pocket, undoubtedly from Ginny based on the elbow sneaking into her side, so she pulled it out to read.

>>babe u just visibly relaxed u have it SO BAD

>i was worried abt todd u absolute psycho

Ginny rolled her eyes, about to reply, when across the way Clark decided to ask “what’s so interesting there ladies?”  Her ginger head snapped up, almost hilariously conspicuous that they were discussing someone sitting on the blanket, and which meant assuredly that Y/N would have to save it.

“Your weak dick game, actually.”

Clark squeaked out a highly offended noise as Ginny dissolved into giggles, halfheartedly trying to convince him that that probably wasn’t what they were talking about, and Y/N was so amused by the overplayed outrage that she only barely noticed the boot nudging at her thigh.  It was Harry of course, poking at her with a delicately extended foot from where he was already draped in a long line on his side.  When she looked over, he beckoned, and since she was feeling generous she scootched over so they could talk.

“There’re free coffees for the next month of Classics with yer name on ‘em,” he said as she leaned down towards him, his breath blowing the ends of her hair like a light breeze.  Y/N gave him a doubtful look.

“That so?  What’s the catch then?”

“Yer notes.  Been readin’ em over your shoulder, ‘n they’re a damn sight more coherent than mine.  Jus’ lemme see ‘em to piece together my essay, that’s all I’m askin’.”  Y/N’s eyebrows stayed up, but she’d never been one to turn down caffeine and Harry didn’t skimp on good coffee.

“Make it coffee for the whole semester and I’ll keep letting you see them, how about that?”

Harry grinned, a certain amount of relief seeping through, and nodded enthusiastically.  From there it was easy to melt into a discussion about outlines, Y/N leaning down towards him to sketch out some tweaks on his main themes, Harry pushing up on an elbow to point at the book in her lap as he suggested the lines he thought would work best.  Neither saw it, but across the quad people were staring- here a sigh over Harry’s smile, there someone missing their mouth as Y/N brushed hair out of her face with a careless grace.

“I don’t mean to break up this weird, academic ménage à trois between you two and Plato, but Duncs just texted to plan next Monday Meal,” Todd called from across the blanket.  

Monday Meal was a longstanding tradition among the friend group, masterminded and orchestrated by the fourth roommate in the cellblock, Duncan.  He was a nutrition sciences major possessed of serious doubts as to his friends ability to care for themselves, and he’d decided about halfway through their first year that if they all died of scurvy he’d feel in some way responsible.  So once a week they all got together to eat (“vegetables, Todd, a human can’t subsist on mashed potatoes alone”) and have a beer after the gauntlet of a Monday.  It was where both Todd and Hil had come out to everyone, where Ginny and Clark were locked into a closet together so they would get together already, where hookups and Potential Serious Things™ got to be brutally scrutinized for a minimum two hours.  It also required everyone to bring something, on a rotational basis after they all realized that Hil would never learn to cook if they didn’t make her bring something besides beer.  It had been cancelled for the week (Duncs was out of town for his mother’s engagement party), but next week was on.

“Y/N and I already have a stuffed cabbage planned, so tell him that,” Ginny said, pushing herself up.  “But right now, we have some grocery shopping to do.  Up you go bubs!”

She grabbed Y/N’s hand, pulling her onto her feet.  Y/N quirked a brow, resisting the urge to sigh.

“I’ll see you all later,” she said flatly, nudging a goodbye to Harry with the toe of her boot.  He tapped her ankle before Ginny had her off.

“We went grocery shopping yesterday,” Y/N sighed as soon as they were out of earshot.  “What’s actually going on?”

“When are you going to accept that you have feelings for Harry?”

Oh, but Y/N didn’t like this.  Ginny was serious, dead serious, in a way that her bubbling smile almost never gave way to.  

“Ginny, I don’t,” Y/N groaned, rubbing at her temples.  Ginny grabbed her shoulders and pushed her into one of the archways.

“Y/N, I love you.  You’re one of my best friends, and we tell each other everything, which is why when I say this please know it’s because you’re important to me.  You like him, you’re in fucking denial about it, and it’s tearing you up.”

“Wh- I’m fine!  I am fine, and I’m not in denial about anything.”

“You fought this morning.  The two of you.”

This stopped Y/N, and she frowned slightly, tilting her head to stare at Ginny.

“How the fuck did you know that?”

“He’s always nicer to you and you’re always more careful talking to him.  Because you think it’s something you do to make him mad and you want to change it.  Because you like him.”

Y/N let her head drop. Sighed.  Rubbed her face.

“So what if I do Ginny?” she finally replied, voice noticeably weary to her own ears.  “It doesn’t-- it doesn’t matter, even a little bit.  He’s him and I’m me and we don’t get on and no amount of feeling whatever I feel or parsing out why is going to change it.”

This time it was Ginny’s turn to frown, and she reached forward to put her hands on Y/N’s shoulders, pull her closer with a soft little hum into a hug.

“Oh, peaches.  I know you hate to hear me say it-- and maybe that’s you protecting yourself, you are basically a pill bug-- but I don’t think he’s mean because he doesn’t like you.  I think you make him nervous honeybun, you know how strong you are.  It scares guys, especially ones like Harry, especially with what he was like when we met.”

Y/N rubbed her face into Ginny’s shoulder, mushing her lips together instead of replying.  The soft slide that her cherry chapstick produced was enough to ground her, let her whisper a soft “maybe.”

“What did you even fight about peaches?  It can’t have been much, usually it takes you two longer.”

Y/N had to breathe unhappily through her nose at the “usually”, no matter how fair it might be.  She took a moment before responding.

“I don’t really know Gin.  I was talking to the Professor, made a joke or somethin’, and as soon as Harry was in he was on my case.”

Ginny nodded, face thoughtful, then said, “Is this the classics prof, the one that half the campus wants on?”

Y/N had to roll her eyes at that.

“Yes, Professor Morrow is the one everyone else is drooling after.  What does that have to do with anything, you creep?”

“Harry was probably jealous, peaches.  You know he’s good at makin’ you laugh, bet he likes to be the only one.”