#you are allowed to only like greek mythology itself

[deliajackson]

There are a few things that I disagree here:

"Riordan’s telling isn’t more or less valid than anyone else’s. And his version of the story doesn’t invalidate anyone else’s. If anything, Riordan fits perfectly into the millennia long tradition of remixing and adapting old myths into something new. He’s doing the exact same thing as Hesiod, Homer, and countless other forgotten storytellers of yore, who wove fantastic tales about heroes and gods (and often added their own spin). In this way, Riordan is authentically within the ancient tradition. His take isn't wrong—it's just different, and adapted to a modern, young audience."

Riordan is not a writer of Greek Mythology (an epic poem, nor a ancient play). Riordan is a writer of a children book based on a real culture. His version of the story is not as valid as the ones wrote by Sophocles, Euripedes, nor Homer. The tales of Old, are deeply coonected with the ancient philosophy and cultural roots of Greece, not only that, but with the religious practices they were connected.

Of course, you have satires like "The Dialogue of the Gods" that shouldnt be read as myth, or a dramaturgy like Aristophanes. But even Aristophanes is based on the customs and beliefs of ancient Hellas.

So yes. His version is invalid and shouldnt be a source of mythology. This kinda reminds me of Miller apologism for TSOA and Circe.

The same way people can be pissed about not having their cultural properly respected, greek people and people who enjoys the classics have the right to criticize Rick for his choice.

Even Kane Chronicles was a nightmare on itself for what I have seen from the criticism, making Isis be british and the only egytian person be ignorant from the modern world when she lived in modern Cairo.

"So, this is the first major misconception addressed—that there is no canon, no correct version of the myths, and that storytellers were not only allowed to add their own spin, but expected. None of Rick’s changed would have been perceived as abnormal, incorrect, or in any way inappropriate. He is perfectly within the poetic tradition."

As long as we are talking about ancient greek poets, who lived millenia ago, yes, there is no real valid version.

You cant say that Homer is the right version of the Odyssey because you dont like the Apollodoros or Hesiods version of it. Both are part of ancient tales, that many historians and Archeologists worked hard to rescue and study.

On the other hand, you can not say that Riordan/Miller/Jessie Burton/Natalie Heynes between other are as valid as the ancient sources. There is no deeper resource, the entire story is changed to fit an American view of the ancient gods, and were written by american people.

There is no deeper phylophical take on that other than "the gods are bad" or "the gods are only people with too much power."

Is not liked to religious practices

Was written in the XXI century

It is not a part of the greek culture.

It is a fanfiction. That is what it is. You can enjoy it and love it, but still respect that is not a myth and that it isnt valid as such. If everyone could write a story of the greek pantheon and call it as something as valid as any other version of myths and call it a day, "the greek mythology" wouldnt have been the basis of entire religious practices in the first place. The myths have purposes, even if they differed in Ancient times, their purposes remains the same: explain the Cosmos and natural law. The punishment for hybris/hubris and why is that bad. The good life for a human is being part of a society and helping it to envolve. The Black death. The search for glory. Between many other aspects that were important back then.

I am studying that for a few months now, but I believe @katerinaaqu can make a better answer to that.

HOW RICK PORTRAYED THE GREEK GODS AND WHY IT WAS SO IMPORTANT

So people are going to notice that a lot of my complaints aren't just in PJO but extend to media portraying Greek Myths in general. But I want to focus on Percy Jackson and not other media, so I'm going to focus on Percy Jackson and not other media.

Starting off.................

The way Rick portrayed the Greek Gods was important because PJO was the most read book series that heavily centered around Greek Mythology he pretty much destroyed their images at the time.

There's an entire anti Percy Jackson tag as well as an anti PJO tag for you to scroll through to see how Rick Riordan portrayal of the Greek Gods was terrible. Be my guest and treat yourself to it. Search it up.

There are also people like @alatismeni-theitsa, @margaretkart and @katerinaaqu to ask for correct information on Greek Mythology. So be their guest too.

Today, we have PJO fans running around having incorrect perceptions of the gods and flinging hate and abuse at the real Greek Gods while Greeks and Hellenistic Pagans have to suffer through all this bullshit.

The torture is REAL. Just ask them.

I mean, you have people claiming that they are the CHILDREN of VIRGIN GODDESSES.

Artemis, Athena, Hera and Hestia don't have any demigod children.

If you really want to, call yourself their chosen champion. Not their child. It's disrespectful to Greek culture and religion to do otherwise.

Rick Riordan read about and taught Greek Myths in school, so he must have read the actual versions of the myths.

And knowing these, he decided to twist them into his terrible, inferior, crappy versions.

That man literally wrote Hephaestus, a rapist, as a poor guy trying to get a girl, oh, he's so sad and pathetic, and Athena's such a mean bitch for not accepting his advances even if she doesn't want it!

I'm not joking.................and I don't have words for this. I just don't.

Riordan doesn't really have any tact, does he? None at all.

And no, Greek people and Hellenistic Pagans cannot get away from these horrible portrayals, because there are too many Percy Jackson fans clogging up the Greek God tags with their Rick Riordan written PJO versions of the gods, which is kind of terrible for the Hellenistics who just want to be able to read devotional things about their gods and other people who just want to read about real Greek Mythology, not Percy Jackson. And this happens in real life, too. I mean, people using PJO as a substitute for real Greek Mythology.

Pro tip for PJO tumblr users: if you're typing about a god, use the Greek God PJO tag, like PJO Apollo or PJO Aphrodite, not just Apollo or Aphrodite, ok? Thanks for reading this.

There are many common misconceptions about Greek Mythology due to Percy Jackson. So, if you're not sure about something, please search it up on verified academic websites or ask real people-you can do this online too.

Now I am aware that Rick has the creative license to portray Greek Gods however he wants-

but let us as educated people all be aware of the fact that we should not always take portrayals of the Greek Gods in modern media depicting them seriously and if you want to read up on the actual gods, then read the myths and the Odyssey, Iliad etc.

Now, to name another shockingly appalling writing choice-

In the very first book, WW2 is atrociously used as a plot point

Yes, that's right-Rick Riordan, beloved author of a bestselling franchise for children and adults alike, reduces WW2, one of the most bloody and complex conflicts in history with a multitude of a reasons for its existence, to a fight between fictional demigods of the Big Three simply to have a reason for the Big 3 not to have children.

Do you know how serious this is? Do you actually know how bad this is, though?

Millions of people even today are affected by the WW2 due to generational trauma and abusive parents. WW2 killed millions of soldiers and civilians alike, and the Holocaust was so horrible that some people would faint just reading about what happened.

I will not go into the bloody, gory details here, but if you still don't believe this, go search up WW2 and Holocaust torture and treatment of Jews and other minorities as well.

Jews today still have gaping holes in their family trees because of it. And to have Rick Riordan portray it in such a callous way, to make a literal Greek God sire war criminals in modern history, when there were other methods he could have used to intertwine the mythological world and demigods and history.........it makes you wonder what was running through his mind at the time.

There were so many other ways he could have portrayed the prophecy-make it so that Big 3 children were constantly causing natural disasters and fictional wars in the mythological world, not the real world, and constantly dividing the cabins at CHB. Maybe they had their own war parallel to WW2. There were so many ways to do this- and none of them had to do what was ultimately done.

PJO WWII IS THE ULTIMATE INSULT TO THE GREEKS

What makes this even WORSE is that during World War II, the Greeks were in fact part of the ALLIES.

The Allies were fighting against the Axis powers, the latter of which contained Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Japan.

When the Nazis invaded Greece-well, it's never a good thing for a country to be invaded by enemies during a time of war.

At least 250,000 people died during the Axis occupation and its Jewish community was pretty much killed off. And the country's economy and infrastructure were ruined quite horribly.

And generations of Greeks are traumatised because of this, even today. Not just Greeks-thousands of people. Millions of people all over the globe are still traumatized from this war, be it direct experience or generational trauma.

And to make ANCIENT GREEK GODS responsible for WWII is simply, totally and absolutely unforgivable on Rick Riordan's part.

To make the Greeks' enemies the sons of their ancient gods........no. Just no.

And yes, Hitler is a son of Hades in canon. Rick later changed it because of the backlash. He's absolutely disgusting.

WHY THE HELL ARE THE GREEK GODS IN AMERICA?

Now.........the Greek Gods are in the USA!

But..........they're Greek, right, which means that they should be in Greece! So why now are they in the USA?

Well.........here's Rick's explanation for it.

Apparently, the Greek Gods started with the fire of the Western Civilisation and then moved onto other places.

'Flame of the West' crap my ass. Search it up-there's this great article called the Whitening Thief. Read that.

What's meant by Chiron's explanation is that apparently Greece is too bad for Greek Gods now, which is terrible, because that's literally where they originated. And their explanation for leaving it and coming to America is extremely half-baked and just reeks of white American superiority.

@margaretkart

@alatismeni-theitsa

@katerinaaqu

These are all good blogs to disillusion yourself with Percy Jackson and learn about what really happened in Greek Mythology.

And I just want to say-Percy Jackson is an ok start for venturing into Greek Mythology as long as you've read up some basic background beforehand, but-

But-

Do NOT, under ANY circumstances whatsoever, take RICK RIORDAN'S portrayal of the Greek Gods as the REAL Greek Gods.

Never do that. That is the one thing that must not be done.

Hera doesn't just love perfect families. She literally lives in the most dysfunctional family to ever exist. And she loves you if you try. She really does.

Hades would not threaten to eternally torture literal children just because of what their parents did to him. His literal job is to uphold justice in the underworld, and sending a child to Tartarus just because her father angered him and he couldn't punish the father isn't justice now, is it?

Ares loves his children and as for why Rick made him hate them-

Rick has a hate boner against the war god, that I will swear on. Read this post and the explanation for why Rick shouldn't have done it.

And the gods are actively depicted as cruel, neglectful, abusive parents, when in the myths they are quite the opposite.

Real Aphrodite loves her son Aeneas and frequently comes to his aid on the battlefield. She also tells him to not marry a woman (TO GIVE UP LOVE, HER LITERAL DOMAIN) so that he can fulfil his destiny of becoming a king.

Real Ares loves all his children. He tries to avenge his son Cycnus when Heracles kills him with good reason for being a cruel tyrant-and they were even riding chariots together when Heracles came across them. He avenged his daughter even at the cost of being punished by Poseidon and Zeus, neither of whom liked him.

Now, what I want to tell you is that the PJO Greek Gods are Rick's interpretation of them.

An interpretation of a Greek God by a modern author (who isn't Greek, by the way, please take note) is not the same as the real Greek God. Please understand this and accordingly adjust your views.

This also goes for Madeline Miller, Rachel Smythe, etc.

And lastly, one of the most ironic things is that though Richard uses the Greek Gods in his books, he has never ever added a single Greek character in it.

I'm talking about a modern Greek demigod who comes from Greece. Imagine them teaching the other demigods Modern Greek and Greek culture, language and traditions!

It's very ironic that he includes Chinese, African and Native American culture in his works and then turns around and pretend that Greek culture doesn't exist.

The demigods are in Athens, but for how much time before they go back to America? Barely any at all. And nothing learnt about culture while they're there.

(No hate to his already shitty representation. I'm merely making a point that there should have been a Greek character in a book that heavily centers on Greek Gods and their children, even if it's in America.)

RICK DOESN'T USE GREEK CULTURE OR RELIGION AND IN FACT INSULTS GREECE IN HIS WORKS

So, if you've read the title, let me tell you something-

Do you know that Greek Gods are still worshipped?

Some of you do, some of you don't, but let me tell you, they are still worshipped.

And accordingly, you must respect them and their worshippers, just like you would do for Christians. You cannot maliciously ridicule and condemn Hellenistic Pagans and Greek Gods just because they are a minority.

And if you've read the myths and think that the Greek Gods being cruel......

They're not, actually. I mean, yes, you think they're cruel, but most of the myths aren't taken literally by Hellenistic Pagans.

What the Greek Gods do is supposed to be symbolic.

Hades kidnapping Persephone symbolises death ripping children from their grieving parents' arms. It's an explanation for the seasons and it finally represents the fact that daughters could be given away by their fathers with the mother having no say in it whatsoever.

Demeter's grief and her actually being able to do something about her daughter's marriage and Persephone being returned to her is supposed to be a comforting tale for grieving mothers who have lost their daughter.

Artemis' cruelty towards certain people? It represents the cruelty of nature towards humans and what it will do to humans if they provoke it.

Zeus' infidelity and abuse of his power? Well, it represents what kings do. Zeus represented the kings of Ancient Greece, and kings abused their power and had many mistresses besides having a wife.

Many Greek kings also claimed to sons of Zeus or descendants of the gods, so it the idea that Zeus had many affairs with ladies and princesses of royal lineages was conceived.

The link above provides many good reasons for why the Greeks wrote Zeus having many affairs with mortal women, so check it out.

Also, Zeus is symbolic of storms. Storms are volatile and raging, and so was Zeus at times. He was a god of storms and as such symbolised them.

Hera punishing the mistresses and children in a jealous rage to bother Zeus? That's what queens did back in the day since they couldn't directly punish their husbands.

Dionysus being charming and fun but also being mad and wild? Well, he represents breaking away from social norms and going fully wild. Also, wine can make people fun and charming, but at the same time, it can turn people into mad, raging creatures.

The point is, most of what the Greek Gods did was symbolic to their domains. And no, contrary to popular thought, Greeks did not live in fear of their Gods striking them down every moment. In fact, many of them genuinely devotionally loved their gods.

And Greek Gods themselves are very kind and benevolent to their devotees, even today, as long as you don't provoke or seriously insult them. Just ask Hellenistic Pagans and you'll be surprised at the results. I'm serious.

The problem here is that we're trying to moralize divinity.

According to the Greeks, gods weren't humans. They were modelled after humans, but they were above humans and human flaws.

And the Abrahamic gods do terrible things too, but do we mock them? No, we don't, because their worshippers say that they are above humans and human flaws, so similarly, the Greek Gods are above humans and our flaws.

CONCLUSION

And no one cares about the fact that a guy is objectifying and making money off a culture all the while removing its significance and turning it into a joke.

Even though Greeks have a millennia old and rich culture, people are always bastardizing it. Non-Greeks really must stop doing this. It's very culturally disrespectful.

I've also seen grown adults saying that the Greek Gods are American so they're allowed to do what they want with them now, and that's absolutely disgusting. It's cultural appropriation, that's what it is. Do not condone it.

Ah, sorry, not conclusion-let me add one last thing here.

Rick Riordan has a series called Trials of Apollo in which Apollo is cast down to Earth as a human for the third time to defeat Python.

What I want to talk about here is Apollo's human name-Lester Papadopoulos.

Papadopoulos is a common Greek Christian surname that means 'son of a priest'. One of Apollo's domains in prophecy and he has many priests, so maybe this is a reference to that.

But what is most upsetting is that this name is used for comedy.

It's belittled, laughed at and ridiculed for its longevity and hard pronunciation when it is in fact a very normal Greek surname. Even if it's not an American surname, even if it doesn't sound normal and sounds ridiculous to you, it's not ridiculous to others and you should respect it.

Can you imagine how Greek people with that last name read the books and felt bad about their last name? Or felt furious. I know that I would be FURIOUS if my last name was used like that.

And the fact is that Papadopoulos isn't even that hard to pronounce! It's literally just 5 syllables that you can repeat a few times until it doesn't twist your tongue.

And if you can't repeat this simple name, then you need to go back to kindergarten. Hell, go back to preschool even.

And there are people who have the audacity to say that the Greek Gods belong to America and are American. Grown adults, actually, on Twitter, no less. Tweeting it for the whole world to see their absolute foolishness and audacity.

They're pretty tactless, huh?

The Greek Gods were and always will be GREEK. Foreigners are not their rightful descendants-the Greeks are (Greek immigrants included). I mean...........this is bizzarre.

To conclude, (really conclude this time) though it's a series heavily entwined with Greek Gods, the only Greek thing about the series is the Gods. There's no Greek culture, religion or language, and even the Greek Gods are heavily Americanised, which is pretty disappointing. I hope that other authors will do better handling the Greek Gods than Rick Riordan.

(Side note: If you think anything I've said is wrong, tell me. I'll correct it immediately.)

@fandomloverangel

[olivsie]

Something I like about epic the musical is that it Gives it's changes to the original text an actual Purpose

( The first couple paragraphs are basically a rant regarding retellings. If you only want to hear about epic Skip to paragraph 4)

1. I am a bit annoyed by the lack of. Understanding as to why RETELLINGS aren't the most historicaly accurate things in the world. Sorry to break this to you, but that's both just how they work and I would guess how they reach success. Ancient Greece is a much different culture than our own, And most of us would be terrified to actually live back then. When you are Trying to create content That is based on ancient Greece And you want it to be successful/ At least reach a wide, and notably, MODERN audience. You're likely going to have to take some creative liberty And change a few things. Don't get me wrong, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIKE RETELLINGS KNOWING THAT FACT ( Me personally, I'm not the biggest fan of Miller's novels Even though I do like epic) BUT IT IS SOMETHING TO BE AWARE OF. And because of that I don't think I would ever expect a retelling to be perfectly accurate And I don't. I had interest in mythology LONG before epic the musical But I didn't actually read the Odyssey until getting into epic. I did not expect it To be just like the musical, I knew Odysseus was going to be much more of an asshole, along with other characters. The odyssey and epic are different pieces of media to me And I am not less of a mythology nerd for liking epic ( Though I will admit that sometimes I take tiny little fun facts of mythology And like to think of them in the context of epic, but that's just for fun.)

2. The Only time being a fan of retellings is wrong as if you genuinely believe they are perfectly accurate And refuse to listen to anything else ( Which has definitely happened, And mythology nerds have the right to be annoyed at that)

3. Some people only like to consume real mythology media, Others like both real mythology and retellings, Others only like to engage with retellings (I would hope they have the self-awareness to know It's not real mythology, From what I've seen some do and some don't, Unfortunately)

4. Ok. now on to what the title of this long ass rant says

I like that epic the musical Retells the story, Not only to both cater to modern audience But Also with its OWN purpose of man versus monster.

Obviously, this is not the point of the original text. Mythos Odysseus does not give a single fuck About the stuff that epic odysseus does. I don't know why the creator Decided to rewrite it this way, (If he's ever said why let me know) But I would assume he wanted to make something about the oddessy And this was simply a very creative way to Translate that for modern audience.

I like this because, yes, holy damn. It does have changes from the original text. But it's not JUST changing it. It's changing it with a purpose

It feels reminiscent of some kind of Dramatic play. the way that epic characterizes.

Polites' kind nature is Representative of the Concept of being merciful Represented in his lines such as " This life is amazing when you greet it with open arms" /"There is so much guilt inside your heart, So why not replace it?"

While in contrast you have eurylochus with more ruthlessness and cautious nature, this is Found in some of his lines such as "You rely on wit, and people die on it" /"we don't know what's ahead" / "I say we strike first. We don't have time to waste so lets raid the place-" /"Let's just cut our losses, You and I and let's run"

And then you have Odysseus, the man/monster. The first act of this Musical is his internal struggle With what He should be On that scale. And the other characters Represent this struggle in the song monster

" Is the cyclops struck with gilt when he kills, is he up in the middle of the night? Or does he end my men to avenge his friend and then Sleep knowing he has done him right?

When the witch turns men to pigs to protect her nymphs, is she going insane? Or did she learn to be colder when she got older and now she saves them the pain?

When a God comes down and makes a Fleet drown Is he scared that he's doing something wrong? Or does he keep us in check So we must respect him and now no one dares to piss him off"

He then Applies this to himself

" Does a soldier use a wooden horse to kill sleeping trojans cause he is vile? Or does he throw away his remorse and save more lives with guile?"

And this marks his turning point of deciding that Ruthlessness It's ultimately worth it if it means Getting home, as aeolus says "The end Always justifies the means"

It's in my opinion, a very creative way to go about retelling a myth. Is it accurate? Absolutely not. For example, circe (From what we know) is not protecting When she turns men into pigs, For all we know, she could just do it because Shits and giggles.

Her character and most others in epic is changed from the original. But it's not ONLY changing for the sake of apeling to the modern Western audience and being successful like Many other retellings. It is also and mainly changing for the sake of influencing the plot that Jorge Rivera herrans crafted For the sake of Retelling epic. It is creative and I enjoy it despite knowing it's not accurate.

[winedarkgod]

something that comes up a lot in pagan spaces both online and irl I've noticed is this idea that nature/the natural world is "preferred" by the Gods, and that they aren't as likely to engage with worshippers in big cities or with modern technology.

and while it is true that nature is extremely important to the Gods, and many of us are frankly isolated from it, it has always felt off to me that people just unquestioningly accept this idea that Nature = Good and Civilization = Bad.

maybe it's because our current society is not structured in a way that allows for a reciprocal relationship with nature, or maybe it's because of some unconscious "noble savage" tropes being projected onto the polytheistic societies of the past.

regardless, when you actually look at the mythology, you find this assumption isn't true. sure, there are deities who may individually lean towards one or the other (Artemis comes to mind) - but generally speaking the Gods engaged with both the natural world and what was, for the time, modern society.

and I love the wild/nature aspects of Dionysus SO much. but to only focus on that side of him, and ignore his role in theater, viticulture and the arts (part of culture and civilization) would be both a disservice to myself and the power of the God.

and then there are Gods like Hephaestus, who may even "prefer" engaging with modern technology. people seem to forget there are like, literal robots in Greek mythology?

here's an example:

"The [mythical first bronze] temple [of Apollon at Delphoi] was the work of Hephaistos, or the legend about the Golden Singers, referred to by Pindaros in his verses about this bronze temple :--‘Above the pediment sang Khryseiai Keledones (Golden Charmers).’"

Pausanias, Description of Greece 10. 5. 12 (trans. Jones)

Hephaestus made Apollo automaton singers for one of his temples?? like that's cool as fuck

(as a side note, I do NOT think the arguments I'm making here apply to AI generated "content" - Hephaestus never made anything that deliberately stole the artwork of humans. fuck AI.)

but my point here is that for most of the Gods, the Nature vs. Civilization thing a lot of pagans hold on to is a false dichotomy. capitalism, colonialism and the exploitation of life have made our current society unsustainable, but civilization itself isn't inherently bad.

we must respect and honor nature. but we also need to respect and honor ourselves.

[room-surprise]

PSA: There are no Dungeons in Dungeon Meshi! They're labyrinths!

(WARNING FOR MANGA SPOILERS)

When the characters in the manga talk about dungeons, in Japanese they are actually using the word 迷宮 (meikyū) which means labyrinth. The connotation based on the kanji used is a palace or castle with many confusing rooms. The word “dungeon” (ダンジョン, danjon) is only every used in the manga’s title, when the narrator of the manga is referring to the title ("ahh Dungeon Meshi!"), or when Kui discusses dungoniums (ダンジョニウム/Danjoniumu) which she describes in the world guide as miniature dungeons, built to emulate a labyrinth.

The English loan word “dungeon” is most likely intended to catch Japanese reader’s eyes because it is foreign and exotic, and lead them into a false sense of security because of the Japanese pop culture perception of “dungeon” as a relatively harmless place where characters have formulaic adventures and gather resources as part of a game, or a game-like story.

“Dungeons” in Japanese pop culture can be sinister, but they have come to mean something as innocuous as “level” or “environment.” The early story of Dungeon Meshi is lighthearted and full of comedy, which reinforces this idea and leads readers to believe that the labyrinth in the story is just a generic backdrop with little inherent importance, like it is in many fantasy stories. However, Kui repeatedly suggests the labyrinth is not benign, that it is itself a monster and that anyone foolish enough to go into it is at risk of becoming food, and being devoured.

Before the word dungeon came to generically mean “place to exploit for resources” in fantasy fiction and gaming, its primary meaning was prison. So then the title “Dungeon Meshi” actually means “prison meal.” But who or what does the prison in Dungeon Meshi contain? Of all the people in the dungeon, who are the prisoners? And what does a “prison meal” really mean? A meal eaten by prisoners? A meal cooked by prisoners? A meal cooked using prisoners as ingredients? All of these meanings are implied and hinted at in the manga.

The characters in the story call the dungeon a labyrinth, which is a word that means a maze-like prison, specifically one that traps innocent young people and a man-eating monster inside. Both the monster and its food, the people, are prisoners… But which of them will die and be eaten? Who will escape the labyrinth in the end, and what will it cost them?

You’ll have to read Dungeon Meshi to find out!

======================

But so, you may ask, Mushroom, aside from all that stuff you just said, why does the dungeon/labyrinth distinction matter?

ARIADNE SPIDERS

(Using the cute version here to protect anyone with arachnophobia)

These are giant spiders that the elves use to produce silk, which they use to make the armor the Canaries wear. Though we don’t know for sure, it’s likely the spiders are domesticated in order to make farming their silk easier.

Ariadne is the name of an Ancient Greek mythological character, and may be derived from the Ancient Cretan dialectical elements ari (ἀρι-) "most" (which is an intensive prefix) and adnós (ἀδνός) "holy", but the exact origins of the name are unknown. It may be pre-Greek and not from the Indo-European language family at all.

Ariadne was a princess of Crete that helped the hero Thesus escape from the maze/dungeon that contained the minotaur by giving Theseus a ball of magic thread. 

The spiders in the manga have a pattern on their backs that looks like a maze, and their silk thread is the thing that protects the Canaries while they’re in the dungeon, and allows them to make it back out alive. The elves may consider the spiders “most holy” because they provide the means for them to protect themselves in battle.

Having the elves use a giant spider as a type of livestock might also be a playful reference to the drow (dark elves) of Dungeons & Dragons, since they worship a spider goddess, and Kui’s elves probably don’t worship the spiders if they’re using them as livestock… Though it’s also possible that they have a reverence for the spiders similar to the way cows are worshiped in parts of India, since some of elven culture appears to be based on South Asia!

THE CANARIES ARE BEING SACRIFICED TO THE DUNGEONS

Minos, Ariadne’s father, prayed to the God Poseidon to help him defeat his brothers and become king. He was sent a snow-white bull as a sign of the God’s favor. Minos was supposed to sacrifice the bull to Posiedon to show his gratitude, but because it was so beautiful Minos kept it, and sacrificed a different, inferior bull instead. 

To punish Minos, Poseidon made Mino’s wife fall in love with the bull, which resulted in her mating with it and giving birth to a half-man, half-bull monster, a minotaur that could only survive by eating human flesh. King Minos constructed a labyrinth to hide the proof of his family’s shame and keep the minotaur trapped inside it.

In order to avoid war with King Minos, the people of Athens made a bargain, and every few years they sent 14 youths from their noble families to Minos as a sacrifice. These young men and women were sent into the labyrinth, where they became lost and trapped, and were eventually eaten by the minotaur. This continued until Ariadne fell in love with one of the Athenian youths, Theseus, and gave him a ball of magic thread which allowed him to kill the minotaur and escape the labyrinth.

There’s many ways this tale parallels the story of Dungeon Meshi. The ancients used the demon to accomplish their goals, and eventually their use of the demon’s power and their failure to control it led to them having to imprison the demon in a maze, and conceal its existence from the rest of the world. Now the elves, the descendants of the ancients, regularly “sacrifice” some of the children of their noble families to the dungeon, in an attempt to keep the demon from breaking free and destroying the world…

(This is an excerpt from my Dungeon Meshi essay.)

[shaampoo]

OMG!?!??! I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS SONG (and AU), RIGHT NOW!!!

(By Lydia the bard

TINKERBELL VILLAIN SONG - Fall Little Wendy Bird Fall | Song by Lydia the Bard and Tony | Animatic

The title^)

First of all the cover art is AMAZING, Tink is SO pretty, the sparkle and lines on the wings, her grin, HER HAIR, HER EARS, HER DRESS,

Also, "Fall Little Wendy Bird Fall" is a great title

Now the video itself and its lyrics, i really REALLY want to just compliment every single frame of this video, its so beautiful, so well done, its like it was blessed by The Muses of greek mythology,

Okay so the lyrics at 0:45

"You dont seem to quite understand what is at stake,

This messed up little family that i had to make"

Not only is this line so beautiful with the way her voice sounds, its pretty much a nod to the fact Tink and her friends kidnapped peter pan and the lost kids to keep her and her friends alive

(0:55) \/

"If i could let them all go home please know that i would

But it'd do more harm than good"

Just Tink expressing her guilt that she and her friends kidnapped the lost boys so that they could keep existing, but like, JWHSEAJKHWED, she ofc doesn't want her or her friends to die, and since people are slowly not believing in fairies anymore, they're slowly going extinct, ALSO, Fawn and Silvermist are DEAD, so yeah, that messes with someones head

AAAALSOOOO, i LOVE their silhouettes, the height and weight differences instead of them all having the same height and weight like in the movies, plus, i LOVE that despite not looking like how they do in the movies, you can probably still tell who is who,

ALSO

Even if it wasnt intentional, i like how in kinda faraway shots, Tink has a more cuter roundish look, while in closer shots shes more edgy and more intimidating(? if that's the right word), kinda showing how others view her (kinda?) as a cute fairy, maybe underestimated, but yknow, close up, shes plotting to kill a child

(1:15)

I love how Tink is gesturing in this scene, cause 1. It conveys to the audience what she wants from the lost boys and 2. Canonically, when fairies talk, people usually just hear jingling of bells, so shes gesturing because shes also conveying what she wants to the lost boys

1:23

"Swear its nothing personal, its a necessary evil"

I just love this line because it is a necessary evil, she needs the lost boys and peter pan in neverland to believe in fairies so that they exist, and Wendy is pretty much a threat, since she makes the lost boys want to grow up with families,

Also, the lost boys look so cute in here, i cant remember their names tho, one is holding a slingshot, aiming at wendy, one is holding rocks , and one has a stick , so Tink just told these children to assassinate Wendy, or at least attack her.

1:35

I love how the kids explain that Tink make them do it, and Peter Pan just glares at Tink, and i love that I'm pretty sure that Peter isn't mad/doesnt blame the lost boys

As seen in this scene where Pete is smiling and stuff at the Lost Boys and/or at Wendy

1:55

I love how Tink refers to Wendy as a "Nasty little spark" because, a spark can turn into a fire, damaging a lot of stuff and people, pretty much saying that Wendy has to be snuffed out before she causes a fire,

"Setting fires inside my house is just not allowed"

Pretty much referring to the fact that Wendy, the spark, is creating a fire, aka, making the lost boys want to grow up and go back to the real world, making them not believe in fairies anymore, thus, making her and her friends die, which is, not allowed.

Also. the fear in Tink's eyes is so fear, her expression is on point, the mix of concern and fear is just, so beautiful, also i love her pointed ears

2:17

First of all, this screenshot does not do justice to the actual design of the mermaid (siren?), cause they are AMAZING, BEAUTIFUL, GORGEUS.

Also, the fact that Tink is persuasive enough to convince someone to kill Wendy in such a short amount of time is impressive, and the fact that the mermaids agreed so quickly is also impressive,

When it failed, the absolute horror and shock on Tink's face? Shes horrified that another plan of hers failed, and shes scared that her friends might die, like, wow

The despair on her face is just so...asdjwoaijdoiwajd

3:38

The fact that Peter Pan (i cant even give him a nickname cause Pete sounds different and P.P. is just wrong and Pan is just A Thing), first at the gust of wind that blows away the pixie dust (which keeps the ship afloat) he covered his eyes, maybe cause the dust or his hair in his eyes, then he looks at Tink in anger and shock and probably some confusion, then looks at Wendy, in concern and fear,

Theory: Pan knows that, since Tink doesnt want the lost boys to leave, and he knows that gust of wind was from the fairies, and Tink's dislike and hatred to WEndy, that Wendy was probably the only one not going to be saved, which is why he only looks at her and tries to save her (that or he's a SIMPPPPPPP /j)

3:50

The fact that you can see Wendy screaming??? Chills,

And the black screen right after, signalling Wendy's death is just amazing

Anyways, overall, what im saying is

THIS SONG IS AMAZING GO CHECK IT OUT, GO CHECK OUT THIS PERSONS CHANNEL, THEY HAVE GOOD VILLAIN SONGS, THEY EVEN HAVE ENCANTO!!!!

[askagamedev]

Why is the Shadow Temple scary? Not "why did Nintendo make this scary for kids". What put the fear in us? Why'd it put us on edge so bad despite Ocarina of Time not having the usual limitations of a horror game? You're good at parsing psychology and I feel like it's not just the aesthetics of the temple. Maybe you have a definitive answer for what underrated, subtle design tricks were used to make that successful in that sort of game. I wanna hear it in detail from a senior developer.

It's the combination of small things that add up to make it feel creepy specifically. After looking back at the Shadow Temple in Ocarina of Time, there's several major elements that stick out to me that work together for the sense of disempowerment and fear.

First and foremost is the music. It's got this creepy chant going on in the background the entire time with low and high voices that sound like they are at odds with each other. The harpsichord part makes heavy use of half-steps, which sound naturally creepy. There's also a bunch of noises mixed in there which don't feel like part of the music. This can put the player on edge, because it can be difficult to parse the difference between noises generated by actual threats and ambient noises from the music.

Second, the gameplay itself feels unsettling because a huge percentage of it depends on the use of the Lens of Truth. The player's normal senses can't be trusted - the walls aren't always walls, the floor isn't always floor, and there are invisible threats like spikes. The use of the Lens of Truth also helps - it allows the player to fighting back against the invisible threats, but it also limits what the player can see (no peripheral vision), which reminds them that they aren't at full ability. Even the dungeon item - the hover boots require a leap of faith because Link can't control himself as well while using them (more on this theme of Link losing control of himself later). These gameplay elements add to the player hesitation and that sense of feeling unsure tickles the "creepy" sense.

Third, the art style is obviously creepy. The Shadow Temple lore says it is where the Sheikah tortured and put away their prisoners and dissidents. There are skulls, scythe blades, robed reapers, and other various death imagery everywhere. There are torture devices, spikes, and guillotines. There are rooms where the textures look like you're standing on the same kind of mass piled skulls like out of an enormous mass grave. There's even a creepy boat ride clearly meant to evoke the Charon/Underworld connection to Greek mythology.

Fourth, many of the enemies in the dungeon are disempowering - they take control away from the player which adds to the feeling of helplessness. The Gibdos (mummies) and ReDeads (zombies) can paralyze Link in place while they slowly move closer to hurt him. The Wallmasters (grabby hands) can drop from offscreen and grab Link and put him back at the start of the dungeon while the player has to watch while it all happens. Dead Hand, the miniboss, is a strong combination of both the creepy art (zombie-like appearance with bloodstains) and disempowering moveset (hidden via shadow and the bloody hands in the room will grab Link and hold him in place). The final boss, Bongo Bongo, also has giant hands that can grab and hold Link in place and hurt him while the player can only watch, and whose main body is also invisible without the Lens of Truth.

Each of these game elements individually usually isn't enough to make players feel a particular way. However, when taken in aggregate all of these different parts work together to form a cohesive experience. The death-themed architecture, the creepy music, the gameplay elements that require players not to trust their senses and to go beyond their comfort zone, and the enemies that disempower the player and force them to watch as Link is unable to act all form to make a very uneasy and creepy experience as designed. I'm sure there are other elements I missed in this analysis, but I'm also sure that any you spot will also fit nicely into these themes. Feel free to add any others you see in the comments!

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[elsa-fogen]

I really like your Artificial Demon AU, it just makes so much sense

Why would he kill overlords? Cause that's what he was trained to do How come he was so powerful when he first fell? Cause he was made to be that powerful by Sera And why would a person who died in the 1930s New Orleans have a name like Alastor? Cause that isn't true, he was never human, so why would he have a human name?

Like, something that has been bugging me a bit is that apparently in the canon show 'Alastor' is his original name, it's not an alias like with Angel (who's real name is Anthony). Which just seems so weird, it really doesn't feel like it should be his human name. Like, what kind of loving mother would name their son bloody "Avenger"? And where/how did she even come up with or find a name like that?

But in your AU, the name makes so much more sense! He's a ruthless killing machine who is 'avenging' Sera for the simple fact that she wasn't allowed to have exterminations. He's her retaliation, her revenge against them, and they had to pay quite dearly indeed.

Like read this and tell me it doesn't fit,

:Exerb from "The Encyclopedia of Spirits: The Ultimate Guide to the Magic of Fairies, Genies, Demons, Ghosts, Gods, and Goddesses" by Judika Illes

The only odd thing might be that the origin is Greek, when the show itself hasn't really shown to have any conections with that mythology, but like, it's still his name in the canon show

i mean, name Alastor is a normal real name, and back in 1900s they didn't have internet to look up the meaning of the name. And even so, i've seen different readings of the name, also with positive subtext like avenger for the weak and something like that, which is kinda fits for canon Alastor (remember that pre-canon comic yeah)

But yeah, thank you! I also like that this AU origin of Al fits so well to his canon self.

Btw that text on screenshot it actually made me think of Artificer from Rain World Downpour (spoilers don't read) she's a mother who lost her children to the local tribe of another species, and she's now avenging them, by killing every single member of that species, no even the specific tribe, she just started a goddamn genocide. She went so far, that she found and killed the king of that species who didn't even know her and didn't want to fight. And it backfires in the end, because she forever loses a chance to ascend and escape the cycle.

(end of spoilers)

is there a female counterpart for name Alastor btw? Because it would fit her.

[desmon1995]

The dichotomy of Fox and Luther

I think one of the weirdest things about the Warriors that even other pieces of media don't really contrast much is the unspoken compare and contrast between Fox and Luther that pops up ever so often in my head.

In the original movie, Fox actually sees Luther murder Cyrus and she basically blacks it from her mind to the point that Luther would have shot her if Cleon wouldn't have stepped in.

Within the concept album, the two are the only ones that make references to video games.

Fox introduces herself as not only the youngest, but makes a reference to the 1970s console the Magnavox and the video game The Odyssey which was one of the first RPGs.

What I really do like about this is that it just reinforces how much of a teenager Fox is but also foreshadows the immense growth that she's going to go through since most 1970s RPGs were very much create your own story types.

(ironically enough the Warriors themselves basically act as one gigantic RPG party and in Japanese RPGs it's pretty common for at least one character to die or sacrifice themselves)

Luther on the other hand predominantly talks about the 1980s video game Pac-Man where he views himself as the title character and the marginalized women he's assaulting as the ghost that need to be terminated by him.

Pac-Man as a character is characterized by his gluttony and the goal of the game is to severely cripple the ghost so that they can become devoured by him.

Ironically enough, Pac-Man is actually pretty fragile and after to hits he's done very much like Luther after everything is said and done.

Another more interesting aspect is that both Fox and Luther are based around mythological / biblical figures.

Europeans largely regarded Foxes as nuisances and within their own stories typically presented them as swindlers and more often than not as a stand-in for minorities (which is why many foxes were brutally hunted for sport).

However, indigenous Americans such as the Blackfoot tribe saw the Fox as a Creator deity that while something of a trickster, often did so to teach people lessons about the world and was said to be the embodiment of the Sun itself.

Fox is more or less all of the above because she is a marginalized woman, pretty coy at first, but ultimately ends up growing to be a guiding light for the rest of her crew to follow as she soaks in most of the lessons that Cyrus and a lot of her older peers have bestowed upon her.

Luther is obviously based around lucifer, but what many people don't know is that Lucifer is actually a Greek god specifically he's the god of the Dawn and his original role was to bring the day into night and vice versa.

It's why he's associated with light, but Europeans deemed that any figures and beans that were not a part of their theology either had to be eradicated or repurposed to fit into their very disjointed understanding of how the world works.

As such, Lucifer was merged with the the the Greek god pan (which was goat like) and that's how we have the horned goatman figure we know today.

In other words, Lucifer was colonized and turned into all things evil but eventually Europeans started to see him as some weird misunderstood necessary evil and started to embrace him and whoopify him.

I don't think I need to tell you how this relates to white supremacy because after the last election we all know that society has grown to not only tolerate but also reaffirm bigotry and White fragility.

The idea is that Luther exists because society allows them to end when confronted with what he does often makes excuses for why this is just the way things are or they just turn around and blame other factions of society.

Luther was always a character that was meant to be a product of his society and in a weird roundabout way he still is that in the concept album but is more horrifyingly real.

It's also interesting how their demise is also treated completely differently.

Fox dies a horrific death by being ran over by the station train right after she fended off her crew from Captain Victor,

Her death is the thing that allows the Warriors to escape and is meditated on not only in the same train home but during the finale.

Luther's death is off screen so he doesn't even really get to go out with the blaze like the shooting star that he thinks that he is.

I know that there are a few people that really wanted to see him get it good, but I almost feel like not giving him what he wanted is a much more satisfying conclusion

[ironspdr6700]

WHY IS CLYTEMNESTRA JUST AND GUILTY AT THE SAME TIME (ACCORDING TO AESCHYLUS)?

Medical school, unfortunately, has been taking up more of my reading time than I'd like. But since we're on 14-HOURS blackouts now, it gives me time to at least read my favorite Greek tragedies in more detail. And of the big 3… My favorite by far is Aeschylus.

I recently read some passages from Gilbert Murray's book "Aeschylus: Creator of Greek Tragedy" and I can't recommend it enough for anyone who is a fan of the Oresteia, because you read Murray first and then you re-read Aeschylus in a totally different way and all the parts that seemed incomprehensible at first make sense. I've read a lot of posts here on Tumblr that defend or demonize Agamemnon or Clytemnestra or Electra, defending one, condemning the other or claiming that they are all equally bad, but I think the problem is that we read the saga of the house of Atreus from our modern perspective. And I think that shows that we don't know how to read Greek tragedies. Tragedy… AUTHENTIC GREEK TRAGEDY AS AN ARTISTIC CREATION, according to Aristotle, should provoke TERROR and COMPASSION in the viewer at the same time. Tragic heroes are different from the rest of traditional heroes because they are not worthy of being imitated, but are trapped in a situation that none of us would want to be in. And we regret that because if we were in their place we wouldn't know how to make a better decision.

Precisely because we are a modern audience, we feel more comfortable with Euripides' theatre, his criticism of mythology and the lack of ethics of the gods (don't get me wrong, I love his Medea and the Trojan Women, which is, in my opinion, one of the greatest treasures of universal literature), but we find it difficult to get into the thought of Aeschylus.

Because Aeschylus belongs to the last link of Archaic Greece, which was transformed into the Classical and rationalist Greece of Euripides, Socrates and Thucydices. Aeschylus was a deeply religious man who lived through decades of transformation: the passage from tyranny in Athens to aristocracy and then to democracy, the battles of Marathon and Salamis between the small Greek city-states against the "excessive" Persian empire and the beginning of the golden age of Athens marked his vision of the world that Divine Justice had an active participation in the world to always balance the scales.

And this also involves a transformation in the conception of Law and Justice in that period of Greek thought. Like the archaic idea that justice is only a synonym for revenge, it becomes a state-mediated process to maintain social peace. According to the archaic conception EVERY MURDER OF ANY MEMBER OF THE FAMILY MUST BE AVENGEANCE, it is not an option, it is an OBLIGATION. From that point of view, Clytemnestra has every right in the world to take revenge on Agamemnon for the sacrifice of Iphigenia, not even the Furies have anything against her because she is not Agamemnon's blood relative, which, superficially, would seem to close the cycle. The only problem is that this is a cycle of violence, and the more violence you add, the more times the cycle keeps repeating itself and the more the wheel of Ananke, the Need to satisfy the spilled violence, keeps turning.

Clytemnestra calls for help from Zeus, "Zeus, through whom all things come to an end", so that she can succeed in her plan. If Clytemnestra kills Agamemnon, it is because ZEUS HAS ALLOWED HER TO DO SO. In Aeschylus, no event ever happens that was not the will of Zeus. Zeus is the guarantor of destiny, the protector of supplicants, the guardian of hospitality… And he is also Zeus the Avenger, in charge of making sure that everyone pays for their crimes in due time. And Agamemnon has a long list of crimes to carry out, not just Iphigenia; as leader of the expedition against Troy, he has allowed the army to destroy everything during the siege, including the altars of the gods… the refuge for the supplicants.

"The altars and temples of their gods have disappeared; the entire race of a people has been annihilated."

Zeus, as guardian of hospitality, sent Agamemnon and Menelaus against Troy for the abduction of Helen:

"Paris, who, having been welcomed into the home of the Atreids, dishonoured the table of hospitality by the abduction of a wife."

But Agamemnon allows his army to GO TO OVER THE TOP IN REVENGE

"Paris will never boast, nor the city that was his accomplice, that the deed outweighed the punishment… he lost the stolen garment, and ruined the house of his parents along with his own country. WITH DOUBLE PUNISHMENT the sons of Priam PAID FOR THEIR GUILT."

So now it is Zeus, Suppliant and Avenger, who must again balance the scales.

"Now those who conquered my country are in turn sentenced by the gods."

As a second point in favor, Clytemnestra, at least in the first work of the trilogy, is more than just a woman, she seems more like she is possessed by a divinity:

"…say not that I am the wife of Agamemnon. That ancient and fierce spirit of vengeance that garnished the cruel feast of Atreus, that is he who, taking the appearance of the wife of him who lies there, avenged on a man the sacrifice of two children."

This was part of archaic thought, the idea of ​​demons or minor divinities that influence the thought or behavior or actions of human beings and also that the crimes of parents must be paid for by their children if they are not avenged. One of the most interesting posts I read is one that commented that, in archaic literature, one never knows exactly where human freedom begins and where divine will ends. BUT THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT FREE WILL DOES NOT EXIST AND THEREFORE THAT HUMAN BEINGS ARE EXEMPT FROM RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS.

And this is where Clytemnestra also becomes guilty. First, because she murders Cassandra, a Trojan princess, a priestess, a slave who has no say.

"I am forced to suffer the yoke of slavery"

She treats her as if she were Agamemnon's lover, which highlights 1) Clytemnestra's hypocrisy, because she had also taken Aegisthus as a lover, and 2) this is more important, THE LACK OF COMPASSION. Greek tragedy must generate terror and compassion because they are the two emotions that make us human. Only the person who is authentically compassionate, that is, literally feels the suffering of others as their own, as a shared experience and inheritance, can be called an authentic human being in the highest spiritual sense of the word. Clytemnestra HAS NO PITY, on the contrary, she delights in the very violence she commits:

"She, after singing her funeral dirges like a swan, fell too, and lies there beside her lover. Delicious contentment that satisfies the pleasures of my loves!"

Clytemnestra triumphs as Iphigenia's mother, but fails as a queen, just as Agamemnon triumphs as a king but fails as Iphigenia's father. Clytemnestra does not care about the opinion of the chorus of elders, she does not care that Aegisthus establishes a tyranny and that the respect for majesty that Agamemnon did have for his subjects is transformed into fear, into threats of hunger and deprivation for those who oppose her.

It is true that Clytemnestra is justified (Justice in the most archaic sense of the word) in her revenge in the first act, but that does not give her the right to laugh, or even to feel proud of what she has just done. "For my own part, I boast of my work. If it were lawful to pour libations on a corpse, they would be just, most just on this occasion." Not even Odysseus, who murdered 108 people in his own house despite having received the approval of Zeus and Athena, takes delight in the slaughter, because "it is not godly to rejoice over the death of these men."

In the end, Clytemnestra does not seem to die for killing Agamemnon (that is Aegisthus). She dies for having killed Cassandra, as she herself prophesies:

"… when a woman pays for my life with her life, and a man atones with his blood for the blood of the unhappy husband of a bad wife… I ask you that my hateful murderers receive from my avengers the payment for the easy death of a defenseless slave."

And that is what leads Orestes to be one step closer to absolution than Clytemnestra will ever be. Orestes obeys Apollo's orders, but against his will, forced by fate, he finds neither pleasure nor satisfaction in matricide. It is the first step that will later lead him to be absolved by Athena. While Clytemnestra, even in death, has no compassion, she cannot forgive even her own son when he sees himself subjected to an unwanted fate.

[sorcave]

Gods like Chaos, Thanatos and Hades are all overrated. People talk about them like they are super strong and ultra mega powerful, or that Chaos is the creator of the world (he was not in any theogony), or that Thanatos and Hades were kind or better than other gods etc. The truth is we have almost nothing on these gods, so people create all type of weird fanfic about them. Thanatos and Hades are pitiless of heart, not kind, and Chaos is not the creator of the world. And neither are they strong either, especially Thanatos and Hades, who got their ass kicked by Heracles in different ocasions without the help of Athena, while Hades we have nothing substantial about him concerning any fight, and he was scared of Typhon just like any god beside Zeus.

And Hades is not the best candidate for the ruler of the world either, neither did he accepted the underworld out of pity for his brothers and yadayada. Zeus is far more capable than Hades, with Hades coming to Zeus multiple times to solve a lot of questions, even in his own domain.

Hades wanted judges to judge the dead. He decided to ask Zeus to recomend three sons of his for being judges. Zeus recomended Minos, Aeacus and Radamanthys. So Hades, instead of acting by his own, decided to rely on Zeus wisdom. Of course there is nothing wrong with that, but Hades is not more competent than Zeus like some think.

He asks Zeus to give him Kore as a wife, which Zeus does. Admittedly this is more as her father than as a ruler but may still count.

Leaving aside the moral objections to this (which, despite what some people will tell you, were clearly evident in Ancient Greece and are not modern inventions), this is generally how marriage worked in Ancient Greece - the father (Zeus) gives the bride to the groom, without her input or consent (and often, although not in this story, without the groom's either).

Just look at Hades. His story in modern media has nothing to do with death. In fanfictions like Lore Olympus and similar works, is all about him and Persephone, and there is nothing about death, that is just a side note. In Percy Jackson his main trait is that he is resentful that the other gods despise him, but he dont anything related to death either.

The only modern work that incorporates Death with Hades as the main thing is Hadestown, where he is enslaving the dead.

For what i have seen, people like Hades because of his supposed gothic aspect, Persephone, and him not being Zeus. Not because of death, or to find comfort in death.

Thanatos is not the "god of something", he is Death personified. He is literaly death itself given a face and body. Hades is more properly a god of "things", and that includes Death. Thanatos is a servant of Hades.

Hades was sometimes show even above the Moirai, in this case he would have even control on how long people live, and when they should die. This was not a common depiction, but it existed.

Hades also choose the judges of the Underworld (but based around Zeus decision), he gave everything there its place, etc. Hades is a god of death, there is no need to be to formulaic, like "oh he is not the god of death".

When Hades appears in mythology, is dealing with death related matters. He sent out ghosts to punish people that did not buried the dead. He allowed some people to ressurect. He was also against people ressurecting others without his permission, like Asclepius. Etc, you get my point.

But in modern adaptations he either wants to overthrown Olympus, or is only about Persephone. Altrough the second one is accurate to myths, neither of these things have to do with death related matters per se (because he being god of the dead is only used as a background, like "he wants to take down Olympus because he hates ruling the dead").

In Hadestown, Hades main conflict is at least related to death. "What happens when people die", they became slaves of Hades (in Hadestown of course, not in greek mythology). It explores Hades relation to dead people and how this will be corrected in the end of the play. Way better than the other examples, even if not accurate itself.

In both cases, Death is just the background of the god, "oh he dont like the world of the dead". But his main purpose is to overthrown Olympus, a thing that has nothing do to with him being ruler of the dead, since any god could try to overthrown Olympus for other reasons, is not something tied to death.

I would say his best portrayal is the books Percy Jackson, but still is far from great, since being god of the dead is once again used as a background for the character main conflict (his rejection by other gods), instead of being the main thing he does. In most Hades myths, beside the Persephone one, his main concern is to keep the dead, dead (thus he killed Asclepius who was ressurecting them), or to change things in the Underworld (when he elevated sons of Zeus as judge), but that is rarely brought up in modern adaptations.

[kiaratheronappreciationweek]

We're on Day 3 of KTAW now, and there are two amazing themes lined up for you!!

As everyone who has ever read the series knows, Kiara is a polyglot. With a real passion for languages. So much so that she has managed to learn not one, not two - but ten of them!!! So tomorrow, we will be focusing on Languages!

Kiara's home, Castelserraillan, is also well known for its vineyards. Her mother Joelle was the main force behind this particular passion, and the entire family has an extensive knowledge on the subject. In fact, Kiara had even told Drake once that she "prefers wine to cocktails". So it is only fitting that we have a theme revolving around the subject of Wine!

Any content is welcome!! Just make sure your work centers Kiara, and presents a positive depiction of her. Fic, art, meta, headcanons, edits, icons, interactive media, even simple character appreciation posts!! We also accept WIPs, so if your piece isn't entirely complete by the end of the week, fret not - you can still send us the WIPs!

The themes are simply inspirations. If you bring a piece for one of the days later, it's entirely okay...just make sure you tag the posts with the day you meant it for! We will always be keeping a bonus week in case you couldn't complete the piece during the week itself, so our official deadline for pieces will be June 1st!

We'd also like all of you to know that KTAW 2024 will be open ALL YEAR ROUND. So if you're unable to finish a piece before June 1st, pls do send it whenever you're ready to (and tag us!), and it will definitely be up on our masterlist!!

Be sure to follow these rules while making your posts:

1. Use the tags #kiaratheronappreciationweek and #KTAW in your posts. Make sure to tag the day as well (#KTAW Day 1, #KTAW Day 2, etc)

2. Tag @kiaratheronappreciationweek as well as hosts @lizzybeth1986 and @sazanes in your work!

Fan Community blogs are super important to our promotion of events, so we'd definitely love for you to check out some of these awesome blogs and their challenges:

@choicesficwriterscreations - Primarily fanfic and fanart (no AI allowed). Check out their rules and roster of events!

@choicesmonthlychallenge and @choicesmaychallenge24 - Any and all content welcome! This month's prompts are delightfully Greek mythology-themed!

@choicespride - Any and all content welcome, as long as it centers LGBTQ+ characters and/or themes! They will be hosting this year's pride event soon!

@choicesholidays - Any and all content welcome, as long as it is centered around one of the holidays listed! Currently, they are hosting Spring Fling!

@choicesprompts - Any and all content welcome! Currently no events, but you could check out all the cool stuff they've been up to so far!

@choicescommunityevents - Any and all art welcome as long as it is on-theme! Currently hosting the AAPI Heritage Month!

SO excited to see all your entries!!!

Happy Kiara Theron Appreciation Week, everyone!!

[adachimoe]

PSC Eps 20, 23, 24 "Ah-ha, I SEES it!"

Last time: Ep 1 + Explanation, Eps 2 + 4, Ep 5, Eps 6 + 7 (no Q&A), Eps 8 + 9, Eps 10 + 11 (plus PSC Cafe), Eps 12/13/18/19

Some paraphrasing cause the full answer to the "Aigis reloading" question is truly entirely too long to just say "she has [x] many bullets" lol...

Episode 20

Q: What do the members of S.E.E.S. in Persona 3 do during the Dark Hour when they aren't exploring Tartarus? A: They're usually just sleeping for 3 reasons. #1, you can't use any electronics for a long period of time, so you might as well just sleep. #2, people in sports clubs have practice in the morning and it's rough if they aren't bed by midnight. #3, it's inefficient to do things during the Dark Hour that you'd do normally because you get fatigued quicker. Q: Aigis has various weapons, but where on her body does she store spare bullets to reload with? A: She doesn't carry any spares. In the lore, her drum magazines store 60 rounds, one per arm, for a total of 120 bullets. When she's out of rounds, she probably resupplies at the dungeon entrance. In P4 Arena onwards, Aigis's has a new chassis. The bullet caliber and specifications are the same, but the big difference is that it doesn't allow for external magazines, so the bulkier part of her arm guns store helical magazines that can be preloaded with a quantity of bullets equivalent to the max capacity of the old full size magazine. In fact, even in P4 Arena, she is limited to 120 bullets.

The part of her arms that's been made bigger in P4 Arena is her uhhh robo-wrists:

Q: I like the piano piece that plays in Chagall, but I don't know the name of the song and I couldn't find it on the OSTs. What is the name and is it on a CD? A: It's not a BGM but classified as a sound effect called "Inside of Chagall" that combines the music that the owner Mumon plays in-universe in the store with the sound effects of other customers eating/drinking, etc, as part of the environment. It's not on any soundtracks because it was intentionally processed to sound like it plays through speakers and it's only 30 seconds long.

Episode 23

Q: Why does Junpei wear that hat everywhere he goes? He wears it at dorm, at school, on the beach, even in the hot spring! Is it something sentimental? A: Simply put, he's a baseball nut. He enthusiastically keeps tabs on the outcomes of not just Japanese pro games, but even Major League Baseball. It might look like he's always wearing the same hat, but he might have a bunch of different versions that just look the same to an amateur. As for wearing it at the beach and in the hot springs, I think he does that because really believes that being incredibly stubborn is one way to be cool.

Reading this made me think of the "Ooh Mr. Darcy" comic but with Junpei...

Q: It looks like Jin gets weapons for Strega, but how does he get guns and bullets for Takaya? Is it a modified model gun? Does he steal stuff during the Dark Hour? A: Takaya's gun and bullets are real, but they weren't obtained locally. Strega took them with them when they escaped from the research lab. They have a moderate supply of those things, the Persona suppression drugs, and some other things that they use little by little. They won't be able to restock if they use everything up, but Strega knows they don't have much longer so they think the supply they have is good enough. Q: Was there a motorcycle you referenced for Mitsuru's motorcycle? A: It's not the exact same since it's been modified to work during the Dark Hour, but her motorcycle is modeled off of the limited Ducati MH900e.

Episode 24

Q: The Personas in P3 come from Greek mythology. What were the reasons for each of the character's Persona being selected? A: For two reasons. Firstly, there are a lot of Greek Gods who are relatively popular and have symbolism that coincides with the game's themes - Thanatos, who represents death itself; Orpheus, who has the so-called "Descent into the Underworld" myth; and many others. The other reason is that the first Persona game was placed as an "Ibunroku" - an "Alternate/Unusual Tale" - in relation to the "Shin Megami Tensei" series. In order to differentiate them, the first Persona game incorporated Greek myths which hadn't been used much in SMT. Persona 2 did the same. Thus, Persona 3 carried on the tradition.

(I'm fairly sure the fan was asking the reasoning for why each character had a certain Greek myth? Also, the full Japanese title of the first Persona is "Megami Ibunroku Persona".)

Q: Where does SEES keep their Evokers when they don't go into Tartarus during the Dark Hour? A: There was no set storage place when they only had a few Persona users. Around the time they began exploring Tartarus, it became a rule to store them in the operations room. Q: What's with the uniforms on display in Aigis's room in her max Social Link event? Are those uniforms being stored for students? Or are they all spares for Aigis if hers gets torn? A: As you can tell from the game, they're all the same size and all look the same; they're all spare uniforms for Aigis. Aigis's form might be similar to a regular human, but her body structure, behavior, temperature/heat, physical abilities, etc, all differ so her uniforms are specially made for her, down to the last detail.

[imthepunchlord]

So out of curiosity, if it's not a spoiler, can we know what animal got what color and potential what element each group represents?

I can't tell you everything as I am still figuring colors and elements out, I only really have a handful done and decided on who has what colors.

Like Peafowl for sure is blue.

Bee is yellow. As well as Ram to play off the Golden Fleece in Greek mythology.

Badger I'm torn between yellow or green.

Lynx I want to say will be indigo but we'll see.

Lion either yellow or purple.

Raven either indigo or purple.

Mantis and Frog probably green but we'll see.

Turtle probably indigo but we'll see.

I got ideas but I'll need to draw and try colors out and see what I like.

As for elements, that I can share what they are, but not who is tied to what element yet. I did go back and forth on whether I wanted to do 4 or 5 elements, and ultimately, decided I wanted to do 5, particularly for the set up of having a nice control system in place, with 1 element having 2 that they control but 2 that they submit to. I did consider Lightning or Tree as the 5th, as those do pop up in European mythology, but my 3rd option won out given it can be more of a stand alone, as lightning can be an extension of Fire and Air, and tree can be an extension of Earth.

I will say real quick, I am still figuring out actual elemental placement and what element would control what.

But the 5 elements that are tied to animula:

Air: defined by freedom, whimsy, and movement. Air is an element of exploration, curiosity, and ideas. It's an element of restlessness, never able to stand still, leaping thought to thought. It's an element of communication and expression, to share ideas and to be heard. Sometimes, it can be scattered, fleeting, and detached.

Fire: defined by drive, flamboyance, and power. It's an element of pure expression and illumination. To let true colors shine in bold pride. To glow as a beacon, to be the leader and center of the world, and blind what's around it. It's an element that brings about change, good and bad.

Earth: defined by being grounded, rooted, and strong. It's an element of dedication and responsibility. An element that seeks stability to allow it to grow and to thrive and expand itself, often at it's own pace. To nurture and to provide to those that are in need of foundation. It is enduring and patient.

Water: defined by adaptability, secrecy, and emotion. This element is fluid and changing, ever going with the flow of life, ever quick to connect, to empathize and care. It is an element of serenity and quiet, withdrawn and introspective. It's one of guidance and provision, but also just as quick to overwhelm.

Darkness: defined by mystery, duality, and cunning. It's an element that toes the line between loyalty and treachery. It is patient, but eager. To be vague, watchful, distant, and manipulative. It seeks to take care of themselves and what they shadow. To reach out and connect with everything.

[thewitchoftheweed]

Hello again! I wonder if you got my previous ask about the leg wrapper for Narinder I got from. I also hope you're alright.

Read your newest chapter and I must say, while you wrote the poisoning scene short and seemingly anticlimactic, it really sets up for the aftermath on how emotionally intense and chaotic it feels, really pounds in that Heket has fucked up BIG TIME. I am only a quarter spoiled by the fact that you planned to include her and the rest of the Bishops still in your future fics, but I still am nervous on their fates and how it will happen, until I remember that half people wrote in their fics that Narinder was either kicked out or walked out of the cult early on and made a life for himself outside it, and I wonder if that will be Heket's fate, along with Leshy, seeing that I have no idea how Narinder is gonna trust them anymore, let alone Hamal letting them anywhere near him. The dice is up to you!

On the other note, here are the first iteration of my first half of what I imagine your Narilamb shittens would be! Reminder that I will be adjusting details further down

Meet the Gray Sisters! Triplets so identical that they could swap places and you can't even tell, the only thing differentiating them when together is the color of their ribbons. I based them on the Greek mythology Gray Sisters, and their powers as well.

Triplet train! Left to right is youngest to oldest. The left one is Deino, middle is Enyo, right one the eldest, Pemphredo. Their nicknames are respectively Dei, En, and Pem. Grey wooled shittens with sheep body and hands and feline face and feet. I gave them white robes with a grey-brown wool lining, tied with a black skull at the collar. They wear those apron like undercover with warm grey color.

The triplets are color coded by the ribbons, corresponding to the Bishop siblings: purple for the eldest, like Shamura, the closest thing to cyan for the middle, like Kallamar, red for the youngest of the trio, like Narinder. Just like the Gray Sisters in mythology, the triplets share a single third Eyeball of Knowing, and the Teeth of the Beast. The Eye shows them events and grants godly knowledge and foresight, with the halo thing behind the head and black ichor bleeding, and the Teeth is the Godly strength that comes from divine lineage, seen with them overflowing with Fervour dripping out (I add the branch like ears from Narinder). They take turns using those abilities, so only one of the trio can use one of the abilities at the time. Once used, the Eye will seal itself and sink back in, leaving only smears of ichor in its place. The reverse of it opening is by appearing a slit wound that opens to an Eye.

The triplets as grown up versions of themselves! Identical triplets at birth, it is only when they've entered early teen did their subtle traits became more prominent. They've filled in roles befitting their namesakes:

Pemphredo "Pem", the Eldest. The Watcher, Warden, Guardian. "Pemph" means alarm or fright, "redo" is to see. Her senses are keener than her sisters, which allows her to catch disturbances in the surroundings slighter than the eye of a needle. She's quite sensitive to changes in the air, and is very perceptive with people and their moods, with the level-headedness to assess the dangers. She alerts the Lamb to dissension, spies, infighting, supply lines, statuses of the cult and followers, etc, keeps the rabble in line. Reliable and responsible since young. She's based on Shamura. Her staff can manifest an energy scythe blade and the charms hanging from it are Relics that can turn into demons, made and gifted from her younger sister. Favors the Eye most. Very silent despite being covered in bells.

Enyo "En", the Middle. The Warrior and Executioner. "Enyo" means horror. A battle junkie and weapon connoisseur, she collects weapons and is very knowledgeable in their use in every way. Her favourite main weapons are dual welding multi-bladed whip swords (based on Indian Urumi swords). The more difficult a weapon is to use, the more she delights in mastering and showing it off. Many fear facing her in the Fight Pit, as she loves to draw out her opponent's torment as a showmanship, especially for spies. She leads the missionary quests most of the time in an efficient and calm manner, in contrast to her usual cheery bloodlust. Based on Kallamar, and his antithesis also. When the need is there, she'll decisively take charge in the absence of Pem and/or her parents. She also deals in executions, both public and in private. Uses the Teeth of the Beast most.

Deino "Dei", the Youngest. The Witch, Curse-Maker, Medicine Woman. "Deino" means dread. Concocts a cure as well as a curse. Of all the shittens, she closely resembles Narinder the most, especially in regard of his experimental creativity and audacious boldness to try new things. She had an apprenticeship under Chemach for some time, and learned to make Relics from godly parts from her. Her body is hidden in layer after layer of clothes to hide parts of her bodies that were affected by her experiments, unintentionally and not. She is highly aware of how others are generally unnerved by her appearance and demeanour, and relishes in the fact. The only thing that keeps her barely in line is the disapproval of her parents and her siblings' nagging. She's not above using the creep factor to get what she wants from the followers.

All three of them strongly love and deeply respect each other and their parents, and as adults conduct themselves in a professional manner in front of the followers nost of tbe time. That said, the trio are not above teasing and ruffling each other's feathers, and give the parents a headache or two, mainly before their younger siblings arrive.

I hope you enjoy this! Will work on their designs more in the future, along with their younger siblings. Drink water and eat vegetables regularly.

These are great! I love the little triplet train of them as kittens; they're all so fluffy and cute.

It's really interesting to see your interpretations! Everything about them is neat: their names, the meaning behind them, their designs, their little resemblances to their other relatives. I love Pem's expression and finery; she definitely gives Oldest Sibling vibes. I'm especially amused by the idea of Enyo; I feel like she would both delight and terrify her Uncle Kallamar lol. I also find the idea of Deino apprenticing with Chemach to be super interesting! That's a fun twist on that lore.

Thanks for sharing these!

[winns-stuff]

LO RANT:

Because why not? I just don’t understand the way that fans think, on one hand we can’t associate or even compare Lore Olympus to the myths because they’ll say “well it’s her retelling she doesn’t have to do things exactly alike” but on the other hand when you’re talking about the story by itself they’ll then try to counter whatever argument against Lore Olympus by saying “this is what they did in the myths!! why are you guys mad at greek mythology??” so which one is it because it’s giving me a headache. I get so tired of seeing the exact same argument from fans it’s so redundant and I mean that in the nicest way possible, I’m sure a lot of you are great people but the things y’all say and do for this comic is insane.

Rachel is adding yet another sex scene and people are rightfully angry. We’re in the climax where the world is basically in an apocalyptic state and the gods are all in danger of having no mortals to worship them and give them any purpose and it’s all because of Persephone, no one is thinking “oh yeah this is the perfect time for intimacy” and if you wanted to give fan service to those who are craving it you should’ve did it in a more calmer setting?? No one is threatening Rachel and telling her that she needs to add these ridiculously high stakes to her comic which prevents her from smoothly writing NSFW of the main couple, she’s literally doing this herself which is one of the reasons why it gets so annoying whenever fans get mad at people for being upset or disappointed. She’s doing this to herself, am I saying harass the woman or cyber bully her? No but that’s not what a lot of these people are doing, in every single webtoon especially one as big as Lore Olympus you’re going to have people who view your content differently or disagree with the way you’ve written things. I’m not trying to encourage the idea of changing your entire story to bend to those people but a large majority of your fandom are starting to have the exact same complaints and it’s clear that your plots are not being fleshed out at all, these people are just asking (no, begging really) for a cohesive story not a masterpiece.

Which brings me to my next point, all of the criticisms and explanations many critics have been sharing are entirely valid. You cannot put a sex scene as a replacement to storytelling, it just never works since it adds virtually nothing to what’s happening. Especially right now when, like I said before, Rachel is starting to spiral the plot into chaos (I’m not being insulting by saying this it’s literally chaos it seems like all of the characters are in trouble) and introducing or welcoming back a lot of intriguing plot stories and characters that many people are excited to see. To make an odd and unnecessary shift to romance in the middle of absolute destruction is crazy, especially when none of it is earned. I’ve said this in my later rants but I’ll say it again because it’s true, the romance between Hades and Persephone has no stakes and it never will it seems since Rachel doesn’t even allow stuff like that to happen. Nothing about their romance keeps you straddled on for the ride or leaves you at the edge of your seat which is why so many people are bored with their dynamic if there even is one to begin with. Slow burns and other romances are all about the payoff that’s what everyone’s here to see, after chapters on chapters of wondering if their love will brave the dangers around them and between them we finally get our question solved with appropriate intimacy.

Lore Olympus as a whole rarely wants to develop actual relationships in real time, it only skips to “the good bits” while completely ignoring the fact that the entire bonding experience between your ships and your fans rely heavily on us actually witnessing their chemistry/bond and being shown why they should be together, not being told by forces outside of the relationship.

All in all the potential sex scene is just terrible timing on Rachel’s part and it should’ve been done while literally nothing was happening to avoid all of the backlash that it’s getting now.

[dootznbootz]

allow yourself to be a little arrogant! if you were to claim that you know more than most people about a specific character from greek mythology, which character would it be?

*puts on the hat of arrogance so I can take it off right afterward*

Penelope 😅 😂

Like most of what we find of her is in the Odyssey, and even then, in my opinion, Homer I almost feel purposefully makes her a bit of an enigma. As we're in Odysseus' "POV" most of the time, and it's kind of a "She tricks the trickster, she tricks the narrator, she tricks the suitors, she tricks the reader, etc."

But even with this lil bit of "sneakiness" with her, we still get so many hints of her character and who she is and I adore it 🥹

Even then she has a lot of background lore that is just SOOOO much fun to play with. Her being of Naiad descent (whether 50-75% depending on what myths you go with), her many brothers and one sister, Her dad being a racer, her being cousins with Helen, Castor, Pollux, Clytemnestra Sparta itself, And that's just background lore!!!! There's so much to play with and that makes it so fun!

And well, like, I KNOW I'm the reason for a big boom of "Water Wife" lol 😅 Were there "Naiad Penelopes" before I came back on Tumblr? YES! :D Absolutely! I'm definitely NOT the first "Naiad Penelope" person!

But I DID create "Water Wife" AND I know I help cause more Water Pennys to be in the world >:3 Even if folks weren't directly inspired by me, they probably got it from someone else who was! :3 and I know my headcanons are often being used by others.

*The hat of arrogance droops a lil on my head so it becomes a lil bit of the sad arrogance hat*

I sometimes don't really like that I'm like, "the biggest, loudest Penelope fan", you know? ;~;

I know I'm not the only Penelope fan <3 I know there are others. Many lovely fans and creators :3 This isn't to negate them and the love and works. <3

But in fandom in general, In some ways, I...I'm a lil sad that like, a lot of the info that some people have on her in the fandom I know is because of me 😓 Like...Why did it take someone else to be a nerd about her for others to be a nerd about her, you know?

Like, it makes me happy that people are finally giving her love and seeing a lot more fics and headcanons with her as a focal point but like, I'm sad feeling like I started it in fandom (again, Penelope HAS been praised throughout the ages after all) recently. Why did it take ME to get others so nuts about her? Why do I see most folks caring about her simply because Odysseus and Telemachus do?

It's like, there are many Odysseus bloggers, there are a few Telemachus bloggers (Hi! :D ), but there are few, (if really many others) blogs that are like "most stuff I do is Penelope, Odysseus and others are there sometimes but It's mostly Penelope in here".

(granted I have not really...looked too much recently as it started making me sad to think about her not getting a lot of love) I am also very picky. I won't stand for cardboard Penelope who is only there to prop up her husband and/or thinks he "cheated" or have Odysseus cheat. Penelope, and women in general, are not props for their husbands/sons.)

As like, I got most of my info FROM the Odyssey AND just simply looking stuff up about her and Sparta and her family. And so I get this lil feeling of "...We both read the same book, why did it take me pointing out that Penelope is constantly wishing violence on the suitors for people to know that she does that? Why did you think that Penelope didn't come up with the archery contest when it explicitly says she did?"

And it's not like, even a feeling of "gatekeeping" or wanting to be like "You're a Penelope fan, huh? Well then tell me the names of all her possible brothers? >:(" It's more like a

Me: "I love Penelope!" Person:"YEs! I love Penelope too!" Me: "Yippee! Can you tell me about your Penelope? :D I love all Penelopes! I wanna talk about her!" Person: "Well, she's more quiet and reserved but that's her secret >:3 she strikes when you least expect it!" Me: "YES!!! That's so fun! I have her 'Likeminded' with Odysseus and she's silly, reckless, hotheaded just like he is :D Can you tell me some headcanons about her? What do you have for her childhood? I'm really excited!" Person: "Oh I don't have much for her childhood actually." Me: "That's okay! Do you wanna brainstorm together? Maybe bounce some ideas so you can get some down?" Person: "Oh no, that's okay. I've got all I need,as I really only have her when she meets Odysseus." Me: "o-oh okay.:'D "

As like...I dunno. When you love a character, you wanna meet others who also will ramble nonstop about them too, you know?

I sometimes feel like, idk, some folks are like "Think up Penelope headcanons for us! :D " especially as like... I've had that whole "Oh no, I've got all I need!" experience more than once :')

Ngl, like, part of the reason I go so "apeshit" about her is yeah, because I am, but also like, in hope more people will join me? Which yeah! People have! And that makes me happy!

But even then, I just... I DO like this joke, don't get me wrong, but with how whenever I fangirl about her, people are like, "Found Odysseus" and yippee! :D I think it's fun to be called Odysseus!

But also like...Why does it still tie back to him? Why is it still about Odysseus? (even my own tag of "Shot by Odysseus" is still technically about him! (I'm keeping it because I'm stupid but still)) Why aren't Odysseus fans called "Penelope" then? She loves him just as much, right?

I think there's more "OdyPen fans" than there are Penelope fans. Because most Penelope stuff HAS to do with Odysseus, and it's usually like, STILL centered around him. Which is really weird to me, as I don't know how you can be a big Odysseus fan without being an equally big Penelope fan. They are way way too intertwined to not be equally talked/headcanoned/etc. about in my opinion. They're like the same person imo in a way lol.

In my opinion, you cannot bring up Odysseus without mentioning Penelope, you cannot bring up Penelope without mentioning Odysseus.

It's literally like that in the Odyssey. (Explain that part of Homer's passage here.)

...So why are there so many fics with Odysseus doing so much without Penelope, and yet, very few Penelope fics that don't have much of anything to do with Odysseus?

*takes off hat of arrogance*

And like...I'm a goober just like every other fan, you know? I'm not some "mastermind". All my "good" headcanons are simply loving her and thinking about her often. It's...not hard to love a character. I just rotate her around a lot. :3