#yknow that stuff about how play can be good for communicating concepts & skills
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hc that part of ava’s phasing with the halo training involved pillow fights with beatrice
#warrior nun#ava silva#sister beatrice#headcanons#hcs#wn#yknow that stuff about how play can be good for communicating concepts & skills#and well#thrown pillows are defo a lot less harmless than pebbles or knives or anything#<- defo part of the reasoning used at some point by either or both of avatrice#avatrice
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Thoughts on Evan's feelings for Jared? I always see people talking about Jared's feelings towards Evan (for obvious reasons), but the mood around Evan is a lot quieter.
really i think part of the reason it’s much more difficult to talk about evan’s feelings about jared in a potentially em ell em sense is because like, canon gives us such a small piece of their relationship and is so vague about the entire Past Decade+ They’ve Known Each Other, and evan’s really not acting very consciously interested in jared in the duration even as Only Friends (haha…it works in two ways there b/c ppl say things like “*just* friends” but also b/c evan and jared are each other’s Only Friend…) and he’s immediately caught up in The Whole Mess before jared’s second appearance so
but also another big issue is that we’re given this whole opportunity to see how evan navigates his Romantic Feelings for someone via his crush and eventual dating relationship with zoe and yet………………………….it gives us hardly any information. it’s very weird
like? okay, so evan is pining from a distance on this girl, and since it’s only the first day of school and he’s talking about messing up a chance to talk to her after a jazz band performance, presumably the crush started in evan’s junior year or earlier………….and Pining From Afar On Someone He’s Never Had A Conversation With isn’t really useful to reference when it comes to his relationship with jared. and maybe the details of Why evan is crushing on zoe in particular potentially could’ve been handy in like, getting a concept of what attracts evan to someone, but like, i guess we get the idea that he’s picking up on her Seeming Nice (which……like, is partly an act? it’s partly an act for him too, so is he picking up on That similarity? that could be interesting but rather it seems like he just….likes that she’s nice, which, okay…) and “if i could tell her”? more like “if [this song] could tell [the audience anything about Why Evan Likes Zoe]” because that’s purportedly what it’s About but it honestly gives us no info. it just lists off unimportant details he’s noticed about her from Afar that can’t necessarily tell anyone that much about what she’s like as a person…..she doodles when bored….probably takes buzzfeed quizzes…..okay
and then when they’re together it continues to be an absolute mystery. even if we ignore all the lying and weirdness re: how it’s all tied up in tcp and connor, and try to focus on What Works to figure out what these two might be looking for in the relationship and what they’re responding to, it’s like, infinite ellipses……they’re seriously always uncomfortable around each other?? like?? once again “only us” pointedly refuses to tell us, say, why zoe likes evan. they Joke Around in that scene and that’s like okay haha bants i guess that’s good, but it seems to be about warding off the tension so………the omnipresent Discomfort……….like can they have a substantial conversation?? imo the moment between them that might like, give us Anything to work with is when evan is accidentally “”””rude”””” in rightly pointing out that zoe seeming to imply that evan wishing his mom was rich rather than poor Stems From Ignorance is a terrible take……and then zoe says she was impressed by his ostensible Not Being Niceness, and yknow, the whole part of the show where she’s getting to be angry and ~rude~ and not getting along with evan is like, most interesting re: her character b/c she’s just refusing to Lie. inchresting moment!!!!! maybe evan and zoe could bond over feeling obligated to Act Nice / Accommodating despite doing so for different reasons!!! but no. the moment just Goes Away instead
we really just….in spite of how much Content in canon is devoted to evan’s feelings about zoe and their relationship, we get like………..no info about why evan likes zoe. she is a girl who is nice? and that’s all we’ve got. cue jared’s off broadway (?) line of: we get it, it’s very heterosexual…….fittingly in response to evan Not Really Answering the question of why he’s so #about zoe………
liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike my takeaway from these (non)examples of Evan’s Romantic Feelings is…………that evan is pretty freaking clueless about his own feelings? and is hardly deeply analyzing even this nice safe crush on a girl so like. if he Does have latent feelings for jared at that point, i really do not think he is Conscious of them or of their True Nature.
that’s not to say i don’t think it’s possible that he Could have those latent feelings in canon. even though evan ignoring jared is a whole part of the plot / leads up to good for you, and that evan’s dissatisfaction with his and jared’s relationship is like, suggested right off b/c nobody’s signing his cast, when they Do get in sync (literally!! lol! they’re Singing!) in sincerely me it’s very effortless and we see The One Time that evan drops his “gotta be nice and accommodating” facade b/c he’s with jared and nobody else, and the way they interact here (and at other points) speaks to how comfortably familiar they feel with each other and how they’re pretty In Tune with each other. and the sincerely me scene makes jared want more of that experience of being alone together and having fun and being in sync, but evan isn’t pursuing jared at all unless to ask for input about His Zany Situation………see: evan’s cluelessness and Not Really Reflecting On Feelings
like, jared may or may not realize that his feelings for evan are Like That, but we know that it is whole entire Canon that he is conscious of his desire to have a close and real relationship with evan. whereas evan is like, seemingly not tuned into this fact about jared at all
like baaaasically unless it’s an au i don’t think of evan as becoming Aware of any Feelings™ for jared until after canon (or sometime before the Finale 1.5 Yrs Later scene, possibly)………..like, i think those feelings Could be present in canon and could even be affecting events in canon, which is a fun (i mean nothing about canon is particularly Fun) perspective to take, but i don’t think evan like, is going to think about feelings like that in even a “is it Possible it’s a crush” way in canon
but like, mutual pining is great, and even if we have these two Trying to work on communication skills, you Know that even if they’re both at stage Awareness Of Crush, neither is just going to up and talk to the other about it. smh
re: what Could be there in canon that evan’s not yet aware of……i mean, he’s all about Longing for shit, and we can assume he maybe wishes he and jared were closer too, but unlike jared actually trying to make that happen, it kinda feels more like evan just figures that that’s Just Not How Things Are and there’s nothing he can do about that………i also just kinda feel like evan could be at a stage where if there’s even a glimmer of awareness re: A Gay Feeling it’s like oh denial time, what if i were to decide i’m even more committed to this crush on a conveniently Unattainable™ Girl who……seems nice……..yeah awesome
like i really don’t think that Feelings For Jared would truly spring out of nowhere for evan as in “the feelings are nonexistent during canon”…..but it might Seem like it’s ~totally new~ re: a changed perspective when it comes to those feelings, b/c i don’t think of evan-during-canon as aware of that kind of thing or really devoting much thought on it. being an apparent great essayist means that not only must his writing be decent but his Ability To Analyze things must be, too!! let’s have some parallels of jared reading evan’s letter, as it’s all too easy to think he must have, and evan reading jared’s letters, i.e. Fake Connor’s emails to evan. analyze That content evan
anyways yeah i just think of Evan During Canon as totally unawares but i do think that if he Was to reflect on how he feels about jared, which we don’t really see him doing in any significant way thanks in part to being distracted the whole time, it’s entirely possibly there could’ve already been mutual pining lol. like, it’s not that i don’t think The Feelings Could Be There, cuz really, it feels like if there WAS that awareness that yeah we could really be making progress here. but i also think that like, evan needs to shift his broader perspective of jared as well to get to the point that that’s possible. cuz he’s just kind of not seeing ways the relationship could be different than it is and i think that like, the lack of communication, e.g. not directly saying what they want / not talking for stretches of time potentially ((another) e.g. how they apparently hadn’t talked all summer) also plays into Miscommunication……..like, i do think that jared is trying to express friendliness and affection, but evan is just like “Sigh!!! 9_9″ about him and like, focusing on the lack of what he considers Real Connection Ideal Friendship things, like apparently that Open Direct Communication about feelings and dreams and stuff, and frolicking in meadows, and emailing
speaking of, evan nervously refuting any possibility of Being Gay twice in four minutes does not suggest he’s someone ready to think about the love that one man feels for another or anything
and it’s all in line with how jared’s pretty much seeing evan more accurately than evan sees himself, being the Teller Of Truth, the stand-in for The All-Seeing Audience……………..jared’s the more Aware one here, both about evan And himself And everything else that’s going on. he may not have an objective or omniscient perspective on anything, and he’s obviously making mistakes in how he understands things about himself and evan and everything else, but evan’s kind of just careening around knocking shit over and just struggling to keep up rather than really think things over…….and also it’s clear that he’s Avoiding thinking some stuff over thanks to messiness and uncertainty and all that
uhhh in conclusion………………i think evan’s feelings for jared During The Events Of Canon would be repressed and unexamined and he’s just like, put everything in his life in this box of “i hate it” and so he not only has to be willing to really redirect some focus to jared but also like………..really consider him anew and maybe see the good in what’s already existed in their relationship rather than just see how it fails to measure up to what evan Thought was proof of friendship (signing a cast) or the ideal best frienditude (straightforward encouragement, personal lore-sharing, frolicking, etc). basically Stop Ignoring him, which is what would’ve made jared happy in the first place lol. so yeah something like all that
#s/o to this person going around asking about Evan's Feelings Re Jared#we Love that. really getting random asks abt kleinsen and related stuff is beautiful#deh#kleinsen#Anonymous
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my perspective on TJ’s story (as of 3.13)
Over the past few days, I’ve gone back and forth several times about whether to post my response to, yknow, the Gay Angst. OBVIOUSLY I’m heartbroken, as a Tyrus shipper and someone who is deeply invested in their characters as individuals, to see the two of them hurting. But I know this drama is a plot device and that Tyrus, one way or another, will be endgame.
Currently, I am feeling anxious about how much development we will actually get to see for them... but that’s in the future, and I’m trying to focus on the now.
No, there’s some other stuff that made me feel angry and disappointed and honestly, foolish when I first watched the episode.... I wrote out a rant on my phone, and then I added to it later, and now I’m trying to make some sense out of it... now that I’m calmer (but still sad) about it.
This is a pretty long, critical post, so feel free to keep scrollin!
(I reallyjust need to get this out of my system so I can move on.)
I know some people are actually glad that TJ’s storyline is addressing homophobia, but I gotta be honest with yall: I, personally, am not. I’m honestly devastated that this is the route they took, especially since it still seems the gay themes are mostly subtextual.
As of now, there is a LOT of room for interpretation regarding what is going through TJ’s mind and what Kira’s implied threat was actually implying. I don’t interact with children, like, at all... so I really have no idea how much they’d be picking up on.
And I feel kinda uncomfortable with the show using themes of homophobia/the threat of being outed/etc... just to create drama and conflict between characters? Using homophobia as a plot device in this way, without even beginning to deconstruct homophobia, comes off as semi-exploitative to me?? Which is probably because I’m just so tired of Gayngst, which is really my main issue with this storyline...
I am exhausted of the pattern of gay characters struggling with homophobia (internalized or otherwise) and this then causing them to hurt/betray their (gay) love interests.
Being gay and having relationship angst is one thing. But always having angst related to being gay? It is a well-worn trope that I am do not like.
It’s “realistic,” yes, but it’s frequently been done before — hence the TV tropes page on it.
While it is important to portray the affects of homophobia upon LGBT+ and questioning individuals, there must be a balance!
When Gayngst-y representation is the main representation you see, it feels like that’s the ONLY narrative. You are left with the idea that being LGBT+ means you WILL suffer, that you NEED to struggle with your sexuality/gender because that’s how the identity development process is ‘supposed’ to go. And it shouldn’t have to be that way.
(I speak from personal experience)
This is why I’m so passionate about studying LGBT+ media representation. Media informs us of social norms, scripts, expectations; what is acceptable and what is appropriate; how we’re supposed to think and feel and behave. It’s often very subtle, but all of those images and narratives become internalized and affect how you understand yourself, the world around you, and how you fit in to that world.
Media images shouldn’t just reflect society as it is today; it should offer images of a brighter future.
There’s this resonant quote from the musical Hadestown:
“He could make you see how the world could be, in spite of the way that it is.”
And that’s what I so dearly want to see in LGBT+ representation.
It breaks my heart whenever people say things like, “it’s unrealistic for a young gay teen to be comfortable with their identity.” It truly breaks my heart and makes me want to change the narrative.
We should have stories that should how the world CAN be, not just how it often ‘realistically’ is.
I want to see worlds that AREN’T heteronormative, because I’m hopeful for a future in which we truly do dismantle heterosexism.
I want to see queer relationships that go through the “normal” difficulties of dating someone, such as dealing with typical awkwardness and learning to communicate better... instead of dealing with external and internalized homophobia.
Perhaps I’m asking too much, and shouldn’t be this hopeful in 2019, but I will continue to assert the need for joyful, celebratory queer stories that diverge from the trend of queer tragedy.
And I really was hoping that Andi Mack could show this radical possibility that gay people can just be HAPPY sometimes, but.... this is Disney channel.... So I guess I’m not really surprised, but I am still disappointed.
Disappointed not just because I was hoping for an unashamedly gay character, but also because I could see TJ realistically having little conflict over his gayness. (I made a post about this months ago, and I’ll probably be repeating those points now.)
TJ’s concern about how people perceive him has been well-established, re: the dyscalculia storyline. However, I’ve always had an affinity for the concept that because he cares about Cyrus so deeply, he is able to come to terms with his gayness without as much turmoil as one might expect. I think this concept is even more valid after the gun incident, with TJ standing up to his previous friends in order to do the right thing, and admitting that Cyrus is the best thing in his life.
“But ash, this is just you being a hopeless romantic!” you might say. But wait! I have more evidence!
I now realize just how much I was projecting myself onto TJ in regards to his insecurities, and it really had nothing to do with romance:
I have always had this complex duality of “I don’t care what people think!! I gotta be true to myself” and “Oh my god, I care so much and I’m so socially anxious.” (I bet some of you can relate.)
The thing is... while I feel self-conscious about my transness on a near-daily basis... I’ve been pretty unapologetically queer since I realized that I actually had a gay crush.
Granted, I was already a big ‘ally’ with several LGB friends in a fairly liberal area, and this gay awakening was in high school (not middle school). So TJ wouldn’t have all of that going for him.
But my thought processes (regarding my insecurities) has always been:
If people don’t like me for who I am, then they’re not worth my time...
But if people negatively judge me for my abilities? Game over, I’m an insecure mess. THAT’S what I’m most insecure about: seeming dumb or weak or incapable.
And again, maybe this is just self-indulgent projection, but I think this fits TJ, too.
In S2, TJ clearly is so insecure because he thinks he’s stupid since he struggles with math. And since he’s a jock, perhaps at first he can play off his bad grades with the whole “Oh, I’m a athlete, and getting good grades is for nerds, and I’m cooool” (or whatever rhetoric is used nowadays but middle school boys). BUT having a learning disability is far scarier, because it solidifies (in HIS mind) that there is something inherently wrong with his brain.
I could go on and on, analyzing TJ’s inner psyche, but the point is:
I could see him being insecure about his physical and mental skills such as basketball and math, yet being self-assured of his sexuality.
This would also be a realistic option for his character — in my opinion at least, because my own life experiences align well with this interpretation, and well, that’s gotta count for something because I’m pretty sure I’m a real person, even if my experiences aren’t widely shared?
TLDR; The way that they ended taking TJ’s character is a “realistic” option, but it’s not the option that I would’ve chose — both for personal reasons (personally relating to TJ, and wanting to see Tyrus be happy) AND social reasons (believing that children should be able to see a character who isn’t show to struggle with self-acceptance, especially since we already saw Cyrus be scared of himself for being gay).
This isn’t to take away the validity of anyone who DOES relate to/support TJ’s current arc! This is me just sharing my own perspective (and trying to get the sad feelings out of my system).
My whole approach to media representation is challenging the “good representation” vs “bad representation” binary, because doing so is incredibly counterproductive and oversimplified. Instead, we should be constantly asking “What is the context for this representation? What is valuable about it? What are it’s flaws? How could be possibly do better in the future?” So I can see advantages of this particular storyline, but I also have some criticisms that I believe to be substantiated.
#not even gonna tag bc i feel p vulnerable about sharing this#but i needed to release it into the universe so all this stops swirling in my head#and i do feel better having written it out and sending it away
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