#yes the lack of hextech is why things are good and i think that's a very weird writing choice

[calcified-fluorited]

arcane fandom for some reason: "you silly goose you just don't get it, it wasn't vi's death that made things peaceful, it was the lack of hextech!" Sorry but the class discrimination, exploitation, oppression, police brutality very much existed before hextech! it was not the explosion that made piltovians prejudiced, they were like that way before that

"but they saw that dead teen (vi) and it made them realise how awful it is to have conflict" be for real please. topside sees zaunites as animals

[melmedarda]

Those in the fandom calling Mel manipulative are suffering from a severe lack of media literacy. Mel being framed as manipulative is a misdirect, said by the writers themselves in the Art of Arcane book. And those who refuse to see Mel as anything other than manipulative are falling into that trap.

The writers have set her up to appear as one thing while being another. She is a woman of mercy. She has all the tools to be like Ambessa, all the upbringing, but she actively pushes against it. She's pragmatic and utilitarian in her political approach. It's not about what is best for her, but what is for the greater good. For Mel it's about giving back. She did not invest in Hextech for herself, but to protect the city of Piltover from threats like Ambessa, while Ambessa only wanted to use it for their family. A lot of the fandom is painting Mel as the woman Ambessa is, and frankly, that is a disservice to Mel's character. She is not perfect. Yes she is wealthy, and yes she was either unaware/inactive in regards to the state of Zaun, I will not deny that. Her inaction caused her much regret, as she says in her game lines, which shoes she can learn the hard lessons from her mistakes. She is not the villain you all believe her to be

She is complex, but she is filled with good will. She never manipulated Jayce but mentored him to operate in the political arena of Piltover so that Hextech would not be monopolized or crushed by those in the council. When she did use her influence within the council, it was to save Jayce from exile, to prepare appropriate measures to protect Piltover by someone who would not taint its purpose (which is why it had to be Jayce), and to grant independence to Zaun. Yes, her decisions appear self-serving at first, but when you take a step back, you see it. It was her way of giving back to the city, she says as much to Jayce. To protect her city and the lives within it. Her approach may not be as straightforward, but she is no less well intentioned for it.

In season 2 she says, "No life is expendable." To Ambessa, she says "If you care for me at all, spare their lives." And her in game line reiterates this sentiment, "To think these gifts were hidden within me. The lives I could have saved…" This is her driving force in all that she does. Her respect for the sanctity of life is what Ambessa considers Mel's weakness, but really, it is her greatest strength and I will always love her for it. It's the reason why I am so eager to see how she fares in Noxus, where strength is glorified, and the only way death is decided is by taking life. It's my hope that she doesn't change, and that her compassion will continue to be her strength. I hope she breaks the cycle, and is free of Ambessa standards. I do not want Riot to make Mel into another Ambessa. I do not want Noxus to taint her.

[avelera]

Hi, I wanna say I really like your posts and enjoy your meta's about jayce.

So I wanna ask a question: How do you interpret jayce's behaviour here?

Personally, I have always believed that since jayce came from a family of blacksmiths, he would at least know how to negotiate or essentially haggle to an extent so do you think that it's on purpose that jayce isn't particularly shown to haggle when it comes to his interactions with zaunites?

Also, aside from that I think silco and Jayce's last scene really goes unnoticed by many epssically when jayce genuinely chooses to be fully transparent and honest with silco admitting that he is scared.

Short answer: My interpretation of this scene is that it is meant to show how privileged and naive Jayce is.

Just to be clear, I adore Jayce, but I will still admit to his flaws as a character. But, I will also point out when "flaws" like privilege can also lead to generous or otherwise laudable behavior, because it's easy to be a saint in paradise.

As for the longer answer, Jayce doesn't haggle for a few reasons:

1 ) Jayce doesn't haggle because he's never known real hardship. He's from a family of blacksmiths, yes, but of a particular flavor. He's actually from a family of factory owners and toolmakers. He's middle class shading to upper middle class either by virtue of being the son of a factory owner or certainly by the time Hextech takes off. What Benzo was charging probably didn't cost that much to him, especially with Kiramman money backing him up. He needed the items more than he needed a bargain to have them. It probably didn't even occur to him to try to get a deal because of how little the items cost to him.

2 ) Jayce doesn't haggle because of cultural differences. To a Zaunite, it's unthinkable not to haggle. To a Piltoverian of a certain class, it's probably unthinkable to haggle.

I've felt this cultural difference as a person from the US while traveling. You would never haggle in the area I'm from (I don't claim to speak for the entire US), because most shops have an established price and that's what you pay. It would be incredibly rude in most instances to haggle. But when I've traveled to other parts of the world, Turkey for example, it's not considered rude at all, but expected. In places like the Istanbul Grand Bazaar, it's expected and there's etiquette governing it, and US customers are regularly fleeced for 10x the actual price if not more.

But you have to understand too, in relation to Jayce and as referenced in point 1, one reason US customers get fleeced in those places is because the amount being demanded as 10x more than the cost of the item is still a negligible amount for them. An item that they could haggle down to 50 cents costing $5 instead isn't really a big deal. Especially if you're on vacation anyway, you can afford to be generous, even if it means getting mocked behind your back as a sucker.

And for some there's an element of generosity to not haggling. Why would I haggle to get a $5 item down to $2, when it's a negligible difference for me, I want the item, and the person I'm haggling with needs the money more? Which leads into:

3 ) Jayce doesn't haggle because he's a good person at heart. Zaunites from Ekko to Silco are aghast at Jayce's lack of haggling, so it's not just a financial thing, it's a cultural thing. But even with the case of Silco, I'd argue one reason Jayce doesn't haggle is because he sees himself in a position of strength. He knows that independence matters more to Zaun than it matters to the Councilors in Piltover, who might whinge about it and the potential profit losses of losing sovereignty over Zaun, but they've been neglecting Zaun for years so boohoo, they can suck it up and get over it.

That to me is Jayce's view. Jayce admits that Zaun is asking for a lot of privileges that probably should be haggled over, like access to the Hexgates and blanket amnesty, but all that would do is drag out the process, possibly lead to more conflict if tensions rise again during the negotiations, and it would still lead to the same conclusion: Zaun deserves to be its own nation after Piltover neglected it. Jayce is a direct thinker and he decides it's better to just rip the bandaid off and let the chips fall where they may, rather than try to nickel and dime Zaun's negotiations when it would cost nothing AND be the morally correct choice for Piltover to just let them go.

One a final note: I think one reason we're seeing Jayce become a more beloved figure in S2 is because we can now see how radical and progressive his negotiated peace with Silco actually was.

When we only had the context of S1, Jayce's negotiation can come across as too little, too late, or even foolish. But when you see at the end of S2 that, as far as we can tell, without the negotiation going into place, Zaun doesn't have independence and only gains one seat on the Council, you can really see why Jayce using his position of authority while he had it to cut through the bullshit and right what he saw as a systemic wrong in one fell swoop might have been naive but it might have also been the radical change that the city desperately needed. Granted, we'lll never know if the Councilors were right and there could have been negative consequences to not negotiating more. Maybe handing an independent Zaun to Silco and the Chem Barons without haggling would have led to further disaster.

But as the show's theme constantly reiterates, "What could have been?" I think we can see better now that Zaun didn't get everything Jayce was willing to give them at the end of S1, and that's a tragedy. If nothing else, Jayce's willingness to not haggle even when he could wasn't just foolishness, it was because his heart was in the right place and he thought they deserved it. It might be a long time before there's another chance at that kind of progress again without the Man of Progress.

[poisoned-fruit-prose]

𝐛𝐫𝐢𝐥𝐥𝐢𝐚𝐧𝐜𝐞.

synop: you get frustrated when you realize viktor is making more progress than you on hextech.

wc: 1037.

includes: just fluff. reader is a secret mage, and their connection to magic inspired them to start developing hextech. reader and viktor are academic (and romantic) partners. lots of czech pet names. he loves you so much.

author's note: been writing a lot of fics relating to being viktor's "only one" (instead of jayce, though jayvik is still very close to my heart) as if they're memories he's looking back on. maybe this will be some sort of anthology series. hope you enjoy.

Your face scrunched up in the exact way Viktor recognized as your last straw. Before he could speak your name, you were already storming out of the lab, stray papers billowing behind you.

Viktor knew to let you cool off for a moment—the frustration of not understanding was unlike any anger comparable. It was self-deprecating, self-destructing, and the sole reason an institute such as the University was build to assuage. There was no point in consoling you before you were ready. You could read the writing on the wall. Viktor was going into territory you couldn’t follow; he was getting too advanced. You would either have to play catch-up or give up altogether. Both, in your mind, were options only for those who have lost.

Viktor gave you an hour. Well, forty minutes before he decided to get up—it took him twenty to make it to the garden he knew you were stewing in. Your form was predictably balled up beneath the swaying willow tree, the branches engulfed in golden light from the sunset.

He rested his cane against the trunk and grunted as he sat down beside you. He spared you the embarrassment of looking at you; he knew you hated how you looked when you cried. Instead, he looked out over the pond for a long moment.

“You know, I get frustrated too,” he murmured.

“Not over little things like this.” You sniffled. Your tears had long stopped, but you always seemed to have a stuffy nose for the rest of the day. And a godsdamned headache.

“No, admittedly not. But you know what I do get frustrated with?”

You didn’t move, didn’t speak. Viktor shrugged and spoke anyway.

“When you don’t see just how intelligent you are. Just because you cannot understand some of the technicalities of Hextech does not mean you are any less brilliant. You are two things, drahá. You are a scholar, and you are a mage.” He clicked his tongue. “And no matter how far we push Hextech, I cannot begin to fathom what you understand about the Arcane. There is a reason you are my partner on this, and a reason I want you as our guide.”

“Yet if anyone knew I was a mage, I’d be hunted down and killed.”

Viktor sighed. “Maybe not killed—but hunted, yes. That is why I also say you are a scholar. You do not put all your eggs in one basket. You aren’t just a being of magic. You are a perfect storm of words and ideas. You see things others cannot, write things others could only dream to dream of. I cannot let you go around thinking you are stupid when you are the one that conceived Hextech in the first place—the one I go to when I’m stuck and need a fresh perspective.”

“What good am I to the world with words and ideas? Everyone has words—it’s those who can make physical improvements that are the most lauded. You take my words and make with them. How could merely thinking of it compare?”

“That is preposterous, miláčku. Everyone may have words, but it is those who wield them with uncanny ability that give people like us a goal to work towards. Who would I be if you had never explained to me the possibilities of harnessing magic? Likely still following Heimerdinger around, an occasional project here and there—but now I have a hand in changing the world. Your words, your ideas, they are not separate of that. I have the ability to make fire, sure, but you have the ability to use it. You are the foundation of my work. I can only go where you have laid down a path. That is where you lack self-awareness. You are exceptional because your ideas are mixed with your smarts. You dream big, you conceive higher, yet you haven’t thought of anything impossible. Not yet.”

Viktor reached over and gently placed his hand atop your arm.

“And do not think that an award from the Council is the highest honor in life. You have done good for all of Runeterra—but for me especially. If I had the choice, I would shower you with accolades and statues, miláčku. You are an extraordinary thinker, an analytical mind, and a mage immune to the trivialities of academia.” His hand slid up to lift your chin, guiding your gaze back to him. “And you are not that far behind me in invention. Don’t let one problem destroy your vision and hope. You will work through it. You always do.”

You looked at him a long moment, then sighed as you laid your head atop his shoulder. He welcomed you, leaning equal weight against you and holding you still with a hand on your waist.

“...I’m sorry for storming out,” you murmured. “I know that was unprofessional.”

Viktor clicked his tongue. “Oh, please, do you think Jayce is professional?”

You both laughed softly. You sniffled again as you rested a hand atop his knee.

“I think… I’m frustrated, because I want to use magic to help you. And I keep failing. And without the documentation of magic before the Rune Wars, I feel like I’m grasping for a fly in a fog.”

“Don’t worry about me, lásko.”

“You know I can’t do that, Vik.” You nudged him, solemnly playful. “People like you are the reason I started trying to harness the Arcane.”

“Hextech is for everyone.”

“You aren’t included in that?”

Viktor sighed, then leaned up to press a kiss to your hair. “Of course. I just worry you tunnel vision because of me. I don’t want to be the reason you miss a breakthrough.”

“Breakthroughs that don’t lead to you getting better are useless to me.”

“But they are useful for everyone else.”

“Yes, but…” You gently squeezed his leg. Viktor used his free hand to take yours.

“I understand,” he murmured as he watched his fingers lace between yours. “We will both be just fine. Your concern is endearing, but it will cloud you in your studies. Make Hextech your top priority, and my health will be right there with it. And with me, lásko, always comes you.”

dividers used: clouds • scribble

[cherrybomb107]

After making that essay about all my gripes with act three, I wanna delve into what rubbed me the wrong way about episode seven. Now, don’t get me wrong, it is my second favorite episode of the season (right behind episode four) but everything just felt off, and now I’m able to explain why.

It felt fake. Artificial. Too good to be true. Too polished. Everyone in Zaun was basically a Piltie lite and I hated to see it. I know Zaun doesn’t even technically exist, as it never did officially get its freedom, but Piltover and Zaun are known as twin cities for a reason. They are intertwined, yes, but also completely different. Zaun has its own vibe. It’s punk, patchwork, unpolished, mismatched. But also vibrant, brilliant, thoughtfully crafted and beautiful in its own way. It’s unique. It feels so real, and for the au to strip all that away and make Zaun feel like a shell of its former self was not it.

Zaun has such a rich culture. Not without its own host of flaws ofc, but what culture is perfect? And obviously there are political reasons for why Zaunites do things the way they do (it’s because Piltover’s oppressions forces them to get creative). While I resent the reasons as to why Zaunites have to be so resourceful and creative, I adore the things they were able to build in spite of their hardships. Makes me identify with Zaun even more. The au took all that away. Everything that made Zaun what it is wasn’t there, and I didn’t care for it.

Furthermore, the whole au falls apart if you stop and think about it. Why would Vi’s death be anything more than a drop in the bucket to Piltover? They had been oppressing Zaun for centuries? Vi is not only a Zaunite, but she was also a teenager. There’s a lot to be said about how teenagers aren’t really seen as kids by a lot of folks, and are “less innocent” and their lives are seen as “less important” (though ofc no one would admit that have that kind of bias). Plus when you consider that by virtue of being a Zaunite, Vi would already be considered “less than”, her life would not matter to Piltover WHATSOEVER. Best case, and I do mean best case scenario, they give Vander some financial compensation so he could afford to give Vi the proper funeral she deserves. But I’d bet money they never would’ve even considered doing that if I’m being realistic.

Also, that’s just a horrible message to send. Vi, the parentified child, who spent her whole life fighting like hell to protect her loved ones, had to die in order for not just her family, but her city to flourish. HUH??? That’s an awful thing to imply! Vi dying would NOT have lead to everyone else being fine. It would not have led Vander and Silco to forgive each other. It would NOT led to Zaun prospering economically. It would not have led to Zaun becoming just like Piltover in the worst of ways. That doesn’t even make any sense! Correlation does not equal causation, but those two things have no correlation to begin with! Obviously I know that’s not the message the writers meant to convey, but that’s what they ended up doing imo, and I don’t like that.

Lastly, why are we acting like Hextech is the problem? The oppressive system of Piltover existed way before Hextech came along, so why would its lack of being there affect things that much? Cause if not Hextech, some other revolutionary technology would’ve been invented that somehow only benefits some and hurts everyone else who isn’t as privileged. And yes, ofc I know Hextech only exists precisely BECAUSE of the systemic inequalities between Piltover and Zaun, but it is by no means wholly responsible for these inequalities. Responsible for widening the gap between Piltover and Zaun? Yes! Responsible for the existence of the gap in the first place? Hell no! And it felt like it was framed that way.

Coming back to this post to add something in light of Amanda’s recent comments. I love this episode. I do. Nothing will change that. But it feels like Amanda is going out of her way to make me hate this episode because of her dumbass comment. No an au episode is not a substitute for proper development of main universe Timebomb. I’d even go so far as to say that au Timebomb and mu Timebomb dealt with such fundamentally different circumstances that they might as well be two different couples, and showing mu Timebomb develop isn’t “rehashing” at all. I love the au episode. But that’s not what I’m here for. I’m here for MY Timebomb. I care about the development of THEIR relationship, not some au bottle episode with their au counterparts! Timebomb didn’t share a single meaningful interaction/conversation onscreen. They have no shortage of things to talk about or issues to work through. But we never got to see it. It has to be “left up to interpretation” which will only give fuel to the antis who insist that Ekko only loves au Powder and not his Jinx. Cause that’s all that was shown! God forbid you call using dms and interviews as a crutch to supplement what should’ve been made explicitly clear in the show bad writing though. Here come the dick eaters rattling off excuses about “media literacy”🙄🙄🙄

Anyways TL;DR I wasn’t a fan of the au episode because I felt like it unintentionally sent a horrible message and didn’t stay true to what makes Zaun, Zaun. It ripped out all its best parts and functionally turned it into Piltover Jr. and a fan of that I am NOT

[iztarshi]

Viktor observations (S2, Act 2)

The first interesting thing about Viktor talking to Jayce through Salo is that Viktor’s body language is a lot more his in Salo’s body than in his own body right now. It might be partly a function of only Jayce being present, but the Herald doesn’t act the way Viktor did in front of crowds, either. In Salo’s body Viktor moves like he and Jayce are in the lab, restless, curious, pacing around his project and looking between it and Jayce. He talks like they’re in the lab too, excited to share his new research and ideas.

Aside from being in Salo’s body the thing that’s off here is that Viktor seems unaware of Jayce’s hostility towards him. The question is whether this is something the hexcore is doing to his perception or far more mundane denial. Potentially going to go with denial because that parallels how Jayce was acting when Viktor came out of the cocoon, saying things he’d clearly been planning to say and not paying attention to the lack of response.

Salo’s state is, as most things are at this point, ambiguous. His breath doesn’t steam in the air, implying he’s not breathing, which doesn’t necessarily mean he’s dead although it means he’s been changed beyond having his legs fixed. Personality-wise his speech and body language aren’t unlike him, although “Who else could mend such a broken creature” and “I owe Viktor everything” are weird sentiments from someone as entitled as Salo. It seems like at best light mind-control and at worst the hexcore puppeteering Salo’s corpse, but either way Viktor doesn’t seem aware of this. It also leaves me with a lot of questions about Viktor’s relationship to gratitude. The idea that people would be grateful enough to him to change their entire lives to live a way he approves of, to let him enter their bodies at will, that’s weird. But also, Viktor is someone who undoubtedly had expectations of gratitude placed on him for being allowed to remain in Piltover, and I don’t know that he was grateful, but this feels not unrelated to him having been taught some messed up ideas about it.

“I was clouded by emotions,” Viktor says to explain why he said he was done with hextech and with Jayce. Undoubtedly, yes, although he had very good reasons to be angry with Jayce, but Viktor always thinks he’s being rational in the present and he’s also acting on emotion right now.

Viktor’s so excited to share everything he’s been doing with Jayce and it’s interesting that, despite the mystical trappings we’ve seen, in this situation he talks about it all as science. New breakthroughs to share with Jayce, progress that’s “somewhat beyond where we left off”. They both conflate their friendship with their work, but Viktor does it especially. He left Jayce when he wanted to give up on hextech, now he’s convinced hextech can help people he immediately wants to share it all with Jayce.

Did Viktor just give control back to Salo so Salo could compliment him and then take over again?

It’s Jayce rejecting hextech that makes Viktor finally notice something is wrong and want to know what happened.

Huh. Jayce is not doing a terribly good job of explaining anything but he does try to talk to Viktor. Announcing that hextech is a curse and they have to end it with no explanation is not all that convincing - but, rather than ask Jayce why he thinks that, Viktor concludes that Jayce’s mind has been damaged by the Arcane and then immediately switches back to Salo who tries to leave. At least part of the lack of communication here is on Viktor for being so certain of his own rightness he takes Jayce’s disagreement as a sign of damage rather than trying to hear him out.

*

I am… unsure whether episode 6 begins with a flash-forward or with Viktor having a vision of his own death. Or with Viktor having a vision of contextless elements of what will turn out to be his own death. It seems like it might be a vision since we are seeing from Viktor’s POV for the all the other scenes here, which would potentially give a different context to the gear if he’s carrying it around partly because he had a vision about it.

“That isn’t Jayce. There is another will at work within him.” This declaration is made with great confidence and we never receive any evidence that it is true. I think pretty much everything Viktor says from now on requires fact checking, but this one was especially confusing on a first time viewing, because Viktor’s hanging out in the Arcane, he seems to know what he’s talking about, so it’s easy to take him at his word. The simplest answer, however, turns out to be that this is Jayce and Viktor just can’t handle the idea of Jayce killing Salo. Then again, Jayce will spend a lot of act 3 insisting that Viktor isn’t Viktor and I’m not sure either of them actually believe it, so they’re just being weird about being at odds with each other in the exact same way.

Viktor’s appearance in the Arcane is much more like himself than the Herald is. His body is almost abstracted away (and I would be fascinated to know whether that’s the nature of the Arcane, since people are just spirits within it, or some effect Viktor’s having on his space within the Arcane since he’s not very comfortable with any version of his body) but his face is his own, including expressive golden eyes. He’s much less sad and withdrawn than the Herald and talks to Sky in a similar way to he would talk to Jayce in the past.

Although Viktor clearly does feel some attachment to his body, shown by wanting to meet Jayce in person, this almost feels like some kind of magic assisted dissociation. The core of Viktor is in this safe place with all sorts of things to explore and Sky as the perfect, non-judgemental partner. The Herald is acting as a public figure while constantly hurting himself to heal others, but part of Viktor can just escape from all that and watch it through a screen.

Viktor is so excited about the wildrune. I wonder whether he’d feel differently if he knew about Ekko’s tree? It’s a big contrast with Jayce taking one look at it and going, “what have we done?”

Huck does not react normally to having a weapon drawn on him. Also, Viktor’s commune really does not seem to have any way to defend itself except asking people nicely to leave their weapons outside.

Everyone in the cult does show emotional reactions but extremely muted ones and ones that are unrealistically productive, if that makes sense. It would be nice if people didn’t react badly to someone clearly having a bad time getting startled, even if they’re a large wolf-man, but… yeah, that’s not what happens. Viktor’s whole thing feels very naive, it’s the sort of community building done by someone who doesn’t see why you’d need conflict resolution because people could just be reasonable. The idea that humans are basically good so if you take them away from all the bad systems then they’ll do everything right.

Viktor’s commune is so pretty in a way that is clearly inspired by the wildrune or the Arcane in general and Huck describes it as “the Herald’s vision” so it does seem this is coming entirely from Viktor. It’s, um. Cute? That he wanted everyone to have pretty homes and everything. It’s not the same understanding we see in Ekko’s commune that people need a chance to play and to create art, everyone seems to be working at all times. But it’s at least an attempt in the direction of enrichment.

At first I thought Viktor’s blanket didn’t cover any less than his followers’ robes, but it’s just that his body doesn’t exactly look like a body so the fact that the blanket only covers half of him doesn’t show the same way it would over flesh. I’m not sure whether it’s a sign that Viktor doesn’t feel like this is his body enough to be modest about it or whether… he does still seem to have emotions, although muted as the Herald, but he seems to have lost any sense of embarrassment. I think that’s what’s hardest to imagine about season 1 Viktor starting a cult, he’s got too much of a sense of humour not to find that a bit silly and be embarrassed.

It’s fascinating that the hexcore seemingly can’t stop Viktor from burning himself out trying to save Vander. Sky tries to talk him out of doing it, and there’s certainly no advantage from the hexcore’s perspective, but Viktor can’t be swayed from doing what he believes is right. He’s still got agency here, it’s just that he’s been convinced to go along with the hexcore so far because it seemed like the right thing to do.

It is kind of adorable just how much Viktor admires Vander. I don’t think it’s really helping him get along with Vi and Jinx, since his admiration for Vander’s dream is so different to why they care about Vander and also because Viktor’s talking like he knows things about Vander that they don’t.

Jinx manages to annoy him! I think it’s good for him to interact with real people. Maybe it would be better if they liked him a bit better, but at least it’s something to react to. It’s easy to not have feelings when everyone around you is just doing whatever you want. (I don’t think Jinx and Viktor were ever likely to get along. The things they have in common - sharp-edged pride fighting a fragile desire to be useful - aren’t things they like about themselves and the ways they differ - Jinx’s vengefulness, Viktor’s pacifism - are only likely to make them despise each other.)

I think the gear isn’t the original from when Jayce and Viktor invented hextech because it’s not the same shape and it probably is just from the machine Jinx broke. But as for the reason Viktor’s carrying it around, that’s either because he had a vision of it, because it reminds him of the invention of hextech, or both. It’s also slimed with corruption which I think might be a sort of arcane lichen? It feels like a side-effect of Viktor feeding his commune on magically grown plants. Which seems to be a sort of theme with Viktor (and Jayce, but Viktor continues it with projects where Jayce isn’t there) that he uses magic he doesn’t really understand and ignores the side-effects.

There’s something so innocent about the version of Viktor in the Arcane, treading through Vander’s brain with the same wonder as a cathedral. If there’s anything that indicates he’s not yet destroying the people he heals, no matter how strangely some of them are acting, it would be this I think. That he finds people’s minds beautiful. And he genuinely does seem to do some good for Vander.

Jinx’s estimation of whether this could work is “maybe when Piltover slides into the Sump” which makes her smarter than Viktor. He doesn’t seem at all prepared to defend himself here.

Fascinating that Viktor rubbing his hands when they start sparking is maybe the most natural body language the Herald has had. I don’t know if it hurts, but there’s something about his body failing that makes him more grounded in it.

The revelation that Singed is doing this for someone he loves and isn’t quite what Viktor thought him, combined with the realisation that Vander and Viktor himself are still like Rio to Singed, just experimental subjects. This time I think Viktor’s lack of visible emotion is entirely intentional, his defences are going up against Singed. It’s certainly the first time we’ve seen him subtly fidget with something (the gear).

No one knows what evolution is although Singed describing it as “forever in flux” is better than the absolute bullshit Viktor is talking.

They do fight over Vander the same way as over Rio - what to Singed is an experimental subject is to Viktor someone he cares about and wants to help.

“If you perish, this community is soon to follow.” I wonder if Singed is right that Viktor realises that? When Singed says it it sounds like a threat. Ambessa will destroy the community as soon as Viktor is gone because he’s the only one Singed is interested in preserving. But in retrospect it’s not a threat, doesn’t need to be a threat, everyone will die as soon as Viktor does. And I suspect Viktor doesn’t know that because he’s willing to martyr himself here to save Vander, but I can’t see him being willing to take others down with him.

The church music combined with Jayce being led by a child is referencing “and a little child shall lead them” right? Viktor is about to remake the earth and bring about a new age.

The trust Viktor shows in Jayce is astounding. Jayce has been aggressive and unstable on his way through the commune but he still gets led straight to Viktor, and with a weapon in his hands too. Viktor isn’t even in his own body to receive him, meditating with his eyes closed as if Jayce couldn’t possibly be a threat to him.

I’m not sure why Viktor’s death affects Vander the way it does. I’ve heard it said Singed injects Vander with something earlier, but to me it looked like Caitlyn stopped him injecting Vander. It might be because Viktor hadn’t finished healing Vander? The ones fully assimilated just keel over, but because Vander’s not fully healed he’s also still alive but wounded.

“I understand now. The message hidden within the pattern. The reason for our failures in the commune. The doctor was right. It's inescapable. Humanity. Our very essence. Our emotions… Rage. Compassion. Hate. Two sides of the same coin. Inextricably bound. That which inspires us to our greatest good… is also the cause of our greatest evil.”

I feel like this revelation isn’t as deep as Viktor thinks it is, but he’s certainly not wrong. (Also I feel that maybe using weird magic you don’t understand on a bunch of people to create a hive mind is a bigger reason for the failure of the commune, but I digress.) It’s important to Arcane’s themes, anyway, since a lot of what works about the characters is that their virtues are the same as their flaws, just in different circumstances.

Even if not having had this revelation until two thirds of the way through the second season makes me think that Viktor is very naive, it does make sense for his character specifically if I look back through the lens of him not realising this. The assumption that good people will do good things for good reasons and bad people will do bad things for bad reasons goes some way to explaining the complete refusal to make weapons, which are designed to do harm, but lack of concern with possible side-effects from things intended to do good. Also his confusion at some of the things Jayce does, because Jayce is a good person in Viktor’s eyes, so it’s hard to understand when he does bad things.

Viktor also remains not very self-aware about this revelation, since he continues to not see how damaging his own compassion can be despite realising that people can be motivated to do harm as much by “good” emotions as “bad” ones.

[idkwhatimdoingbutslay]

I think what it is is that the heart of Arcane has changed as of right now. What’s guiding the plot isn’t character dynamics anymore, it’s just plot. It’s not Vi and Jinx or Jinx and Caitlyn or Mel and Ambessa or Ekko and Jinx or Silco and Jinx or Vi and Vander or Jayce and Viktor or Mel and Jayce or even Caitlyn and Vi. There are hints of all of those things, yes, but they weren’t hints in season one, they were driving forces. The characters don’t feel like people as much anymore and their relationships suffer from that.

Edit: I wrote this after act I and I feel this even more after act ii. There is so much intimacy missing this season. The interpersonal conflicts are lacking so hard and I feel like the plot isn’t even heavy enough for the sacrifice to be so great. That’s why we’re missing the importance of characters like Ekko and Vi who are so driven by their care for other people. I’ll come back to this draft once act iii airs.

From season one, I can tell you that this is a tale of two sisters. From season two… I don’t know what’d I’d say.

Edit post act iii: I have to say, regarding this, Act III is the best. I really didn’t hate the focus on Jayce and Viktor and the Arcane considering that’s the name of the show and this is the most consistent and well thought out storyline stretching from s1 to s2, but I do have my gripes with Mel being so disconnected from this story despite her also having the Arcane within her and being a main player in Hextech in s1. The black rose s1 set up was a complete fumble imo. Either do it well or don’t do it at all.

This act felt a lot more propelled by the relationships in this show. What I loved about Arcane s1 is that it’s not just a bunch of people within a plot but a bunch of people making the plot. Things aren’t just happening to them, they are actively making them happen. This cast in s1 is how you write real, good and well thought out plot devices. They’re all elements of a narrative that feel so so real.

Episode seven being the best episode of the season is such a good example of this. We get to see the characters we love in the story we love. We get to see the consequences of the characters existing (or not). We also have an Ekko centric episode which is just the cherry on top.

Act II wasn’t too bad in the relationship propelling the story aspect with Jinx, Vi and Vander (and Isha). But they barely lasted and the Warwick we saw in act III was so obviously not Vander that it felt kind of meh. And Isha felt empty to me, sorry. She should have lasted longer but she would have no significant part to play in act III. She was just TOO MUCH of a plot device to me.

The fact that we got ONE Silco hallucination and it was in act III is another reason why I feel like it’s better in this way. I know Jinx was getting healthier and whatnot, but in act I we didn’t see any hallucinations at all after her literally killing Silco and really leaning into the Jinx persona which felt a little off.

Erm not to talk about the lesbians but I’m gonna do that lmao. This season was so wishy washy we them. We got what we wanted but not how we wanted it. Their characters were kinda fumbled (Caitlyn less so) so thereby, their relationship felt a little fumbled. I think them ending their respective storylines separately is fine, but having them hardly be intertwined felt off. And even the final scene with them felt a little empty. Like of course they’ll forever be together but that can’t be it. There’s so much more to CaitVi than that. I feel like they’re missing the “despite it all……”, even tho it was implied pretty well I suppose. Idk, just a little unsatisfied with the “Dirt Under Your Nails” line.

TLDR; this show is made up of characters and relationships that make the story move forward and I feel like s2 was lacking in this in comparison to s1.

[nylloth]

@tloczek

I'm afraid Viktor's whole story won't fit in comment. First off he was never the “time traveling wizard” who gave Jayce the stone. The time loop is the worst trope that leads him to “Only Jayce can change my mind”. not a consequence of his decisions (s1 Sky death changed his mind without Jayce!), not a result of his work, not something logical, but only Jayce. It's silly

Secondly his “cultists” were not puppets of the void, Viktor believed in choice! He only helped those who asked for his help. He gave them new arms and legs, but he didn't force them or render them unconscious. They believed in him, that's why it's a cult. They had personalities. Viktor doesn't have a disability in LoL, his choice of evolutions isn't forced by illness. I'm fine with adding a disability, but it should never be the sole reason for his belief in evolution. Jayce is emphasizing Viktor's disability in his final sentence, again! Evolution is NOT about that.

Jayce changes Viktor's mind in 5 minutes, the original Viktor is always true to his views as they are not born out of resentment or lack of self-confidence. “Hasty” is putting it mildly. Keep in mind that Viktor made the decision to kill his humanity (Sky), for the sake of this evolution. It should have been a dramatic and sad process. So why wasn't it? Because he already gets his humanity back in the next episode because of Jayce's words. This nullifies killing Sky and makes this move extremely tasteless.

LoL MH has motivation and belief in what he is doing. These are feelings stronger than resentment or disappointment. Jayce killed Viktor and he became disillusioned with humanity (and Jayce???) and so chose evolution. Viktor had no convictions, he's like a guided kitten who got trapped because Jayce resurrected him.

Gradually changing your own body because you believe it, and unwanted resurrection from the dead are not the same thing.

I said it after the first act, he's a hostage to circumstance. Everything's been decided for him. The murder, the resurrection, the second murder without any discussion. Only at the end he makes his own decision, only to abandon it 10 minutes later. This is bad for any character, not just Viktor. The character doesn't stick to his views.

Viktor's evolution never destroyed nature, but if you take that element out of Jayce's story (the apocalypse) then all their interactions immediately lose meaning. And of course Viktor can't talk about “loneliness”, because Viktor is not alone with his supporters. (which are not empty)

LoL Jayce are not opposed to hextech. He thinks it should be controlled and that's why he and Viktor had a conflict. They used different methods and that's why their quarrels seemed more logical. Arcane Jayce hates everything to do with it.

The time loop creates a bunch of gaps, like in au where Ekko got to, where hextech wasn't invented and Viktor can't be a mage there.

Viktor also has a robot son, Blitz. He is not mentioned in Arcane and since Viktor dissolved in time (don't know what happened to them), he will never be. Jayce's influence literally predetermines Viktor's entire fate (death-resurrection-death), but they kind of make it look like Viktor is looping his own suffering fate with a time loop (the stone). That seems like a bad plot move to me. All Viktor's roads lead to Jayce, and believe me, that never happened in the original lore. Yes, they were adversaries, but Viktor had a robot son, ties to Renata, other henchmen, etc… It wasn't just “me and my friendship with Jayce, the only person who can change my mind”.

It's as if the characters can't exist outside of this cycle, making them appendages. While the original Viktor lore still exists, I suggest you read it, there are some nice stories in there and this man is much more like the Viktor from season one than Viktor we see in season two. He has motivation, motives, determination and a separate personality. I'd say Viktor s1 was a pretty good backstory for Viktor LoL if they didn't kill him off in season 2 with the first episode. Knowing the original lore and comparing it to what we got, there is a bad flavor. I know ppl like Jayce/Viktor connection, for parallels, but given the pacing of the story and the crappy “time loop” branch, it sucks. Though even if it had been given more time it wouldn't have worked. For the reasons I described above.

“Viktor and Jayce got the best ending ever” if you knew Viktor's original lore and appreciated him as a separate character and not an appendage to Jayce, you would never say that.

[featherlumina]

So. I’ve got some questions and thoughts about Viktor’s cane. (And a heads up—I am abled, so I apologise profusely if I miss something or get anything wrong!)

I saw another user point out that baby Viktor uses his cane incorrectly. According to my trawling of the interwebs, using a cane on the opposite side of the affected limb is best as it provides better overall body support. Vik’s bad leg is his right, so he should use his cane in his left hand.

We can only assume that coming from Zaun, and with limited access to education or medical experts, lil’ Vik had to make do (especially given that his cane is a bent stick that’s been repaired and modified).  So yes. Viktor is young and no one around him knows better.

But look! He’s still using it incorrectly well into his twenties. Now, maybe he’s a special case and just has a preference for using it in his right hand. And I seriously doubt Fortiche made a mistake with this, because...come on. We’ve seen the detail they go to. 

From this, we can brainstorm a few ideas—maybe Viktor uses it this way because it’s all he knows and for some reason, no one has corrected him. Which, given his status as a Zaunite and a disabled person, is quite a fitting way for the people of Piltover to treat him. Or, maybe, even when working for the Academy, he still lacked the funds to get appropriate treatment and so carried on as he was. Hell, maybe Piltover ostracises anyone with a disability and they’re clueless about proper care (unlikely, but still has a shred of potential).

But after the time skip? He’s corrected his use. Even though he’s now using a crutch instead of a cane, the advice is the same—use it on the opposite side. 

So now we’re thinking...why now? 

Well, I noticed something on the render of Viktor used for the RiotX Arcane experience. Even though it’s non-canon, it’s set once Hextech becomes an accepted technology—a few months or years after, it’s hard to tell. Anyway, he’s using his cane correctly here as well! 

So naturally, this leads me to think that maybe Viktor finally got the right medical advice once he’d made a name for himself as part of Hextech. Like only after achieving something seemingly impossible for a Zaunite was he recognised as a proper member of Piltovan society. Anyway. It’s all conjecture and I have no idea really. :P But I’ve got one final note to make.

So we’ve all seen the back brace Viktor wears, presumably to keep his spine straight because of his crippled leg throwing things off (a really nice detail, really). But I also noticed that he has screws in his actual spine. Like damn. 

I makes me wonder...did he have spinal surgery to fix problems caused by long-term incorrect cane usage!? 

And, by extension, is that another deliberate example of the disadvantages the people of Zaun suffer from? I mean. It makes sense. As if they’d have access to good medical care or advice. All the doctors probably disappeared into Piltover for the cashed up aristocracy. 

(Alternatively, he was destined for spinal surgery and a brace no matter how he used his cane, but... still. :P)

Anyway. Thanks for coming to my TED talk on probably another brilliant detail from Arcane. 

[mercury-hammer]

Jayce writing prompts 👀 college AU or professor AU if you do those, for example how would Jayce interact with a class of students, i bet they banter with him lmao (maybe viktor's there too?)

If canon universe, how about a no-plot, jayce's internal monologue kinda thing, exploring one of his traits that you find interesting (i wanna see you pick his brain apart and explain it to me, a still-jayce-ambivalent person hehe)

I went with the second prompt! And then it got away from me, just a little, Enjoy!! I did giopara instead of talis so I hope that’s alright!

Tw: mentions of self-harm and not listening to ones therapist, vague mentions of fighting and violence.

—

Kicking machines, fundamentally, has never done anyone any good. I mean sure you could kick a machine and it’d work again, but that was only sometimes, and Jayce needed this to work perfectly, All the time, because quite honestly If it didn’t work perfectly all the time, he was going to put his hammer through the ground, or a window, he hadn’t taken the time to calculate which would statistically be More Satisfying, in the event of a small fit of rage

(This was, of course, a lie, it was the window. Always Always the window. He had done the calculations)

This is how he found himself precariously balancing one of the small hextech chips he’d thrown together in a 4 day no sleep bender, between his lips, as he applied thermal paste to the small connector unit, which he had for some ungodly reason made an impossibly small gap for, something about compatibility, whatever Past Jayce was thinking, it was ridiculous, and Current Jayce wasn't having it. Why the fuck would he have made the one part he needed to access often and frequently, have a gap smaller than his pinkie finger.

It took him approximately 5 tries to apply the thermal paste, and then an additional 8 tries to place the chip onto the thermal paste, so that he could turn the stupid machine on again, and see if it blew right back up in his face.

For the wellness of everyone in Runeterra, the abhorred machine ran just as intended.

If Jayce got so excited he threw his book into the wall, accidentally knocking the fire alarm system in place, and sending cascades of cold water down onto his head, no one else was in the lab to bear witness to it. It didn’t happen.

—

Of course, he wasn’t always tinkering away in his lab, occasionally he would be trying (and failing) to seem even somewhat vaguely interested in what the higher class citizens of piltover deemed worthy of their time. It’s not prim nor proper to get blackout smashed at one of these parties, so Jayce had to pull his expression into what he called his “Condescending Cunt” face just to pass off as if he were one of them and also belonged here, in this too big fancy ballroom with small tiny foods he hated the tastes and textures of.

(Another lie, he keeps lying today, he fucking loves those little cocktail sausages)

He should have been paying attention more, because the woman he’s looking in the vague direction of at the moment seems to be waiting for his reply on something she said, and Jayce can’t even remember her bloody name, so why would he remember whatever random thing she had come up with to discuss with him (a thing he’s come to accept over the 10 plus years he’s been attending these things)

“Hm? What oh yes, right, hmm” is the best that Piltover's Sparkly Golden Man of Progress can come up with, but what does he care, really I mean he’s a scientist not a public speaker no matter what the council might think.

She doesn’t look pleased with this answer at all, and storms off before he can act like a respectable person and just ask her what she said. Oh well, it mustn't have been that important.

It’s another 3 hours before he finds it in him to just up and leave, these might’ve been bareable when he was 27, but he’s 43 now, his back hurts, and the lack of anyone interesting enough to talk to was enough to send him careening into the weak champagne they had stocked for the event.

Getting drunk at home was much more enjoyable

—

Being thrown into a concrete wall at Mach speeds isn’t fun. Well it is fun, but Jayce’s therapist told him that was bordering on “self harm” or whatever, so he had to remind himself that it wasn’t fun. Having a laser pointed at his face was not fun, and he didn’t enjoy it.

(Lie again. Really he had to stop, but his life had reached a breaking point about 4 years ago where he realized he had the most fun when he was getting the shit beat out of him by the metal shell of a man he used to care about, he hadn’t told his therapist about that one, he’s sure she’d have some choice words for him about that.)

After party fights were something that Jayce had somehow come to look forward to, it was like after party sex, but he didn’t have to think too hard about the fights like he did with sex. During sex he had to make sure the other person was having fun, that they enjoyed it, fighting Viktor meant he could turn off his brain and swing a massive weapon around without much care, and he didnt have to care if Viktor was enjoying this either, quite frankly he probably wasn’t having as much fun as Jayce was, but they were fighting what did it matter.

He should probably pick himself up off the ground, that would be a smart idea, and Jayce was a smart man. He doesn’t pick himself up off the floor, actually he thinks he’s lying there for a good 3 minutes before he can feel sharp metallic claws on his throat, his body being lifted like some discarded doll, and his back hitting the wall of whatever alleyway he and Viktor had met in this time. It takes him a few seconds to lift his eyes up off the ground where they were and oh isn't that a nice sight, at some point he must’ve swung his hammer hard enough to knock Viktor’s mask off.

Relatively speaking, it was the same face as it had always been. Well, no, Viktor’s eyes must have been replaced at some point, black sclera and Orange Iris’ staring back at him, and there was metal playing out his face where the hollows of his cheeks used to be, but the slight crooked angle of his nose was still the same, he still had a gap between his two front teeth, even if they were sharper now, and the moles on his face still stood out against the paleness of his skin.

Oh. Viktor was talking to him, or he might have been talking to him, his mouth was moving, why couldn’t he hear what Viktor was saying. It didn’t matter too much, because the edges of his vision had gotten all hazy, and his arms suddenly felt heavier than the stupid hammer he walked around with everywhere.

Falling into unconsciousness was like a blessed gift.

[iztarshi]

Hello there, your observations regarding Victor and Jayce are very interesting. Finally somebody, who wishes to analyze these scenes and not just fangirl about it.

There are a few points, I would like to discuss or add...

Have you noticed...that the mask that Ekko as a firelight wears resembles greatly the form Victor assumes`? For me this was pretty interesting, as Ekko as well, (just like Jinx later) became a sign of hope...a hero...but a hero is after all an artificial image, just like Victor´s saviour is an artificial persona Victor created in order to "become better" as a sort of refuge from his own problems.

2. Victor refuses Skye twice, as a child and later as an adult. Skye is presented like the healthy alternative, Victor isn´t interested in.

3. The scene of finding Singed plays also out like the murder of Georgie in Stephen King´s "It". Just like Georgie Victor fell down as a child, lost his ship and an "evil being" found it.

4. Could it not just be, that Victor was just excited to see Jayce, since he needed somebody to share, what he had experienced? This might be the reason, Victor in Salo´s body reacts so positive and nearly gleeful to seeing Jayce...and also...Jayce has never attacked Victor before...in fact he has worried for him many times before...People do not want to believe that a person they love could be hostile.

5. Your words:“Who else could mend such a broken creature” and “I owe Viktor everything” are weird sentiments from someone as entitled as Salo.It seems like at best light mind-control and at worst the hexcore puppeteering Salo’s corpse, but either way Viktor doesn’t seem aware of this."

In my opinion, Victor chose - at the beginning at least - people that wished to be saved. He wanted to help them, to make their lives better by using the influence of the arcane...And honestly...we can see that the people Victor "changed" desired it earnestly.

So yes, being made "whole" again, might change Salo himself for the better. Also Salo became part of "something bigger" This could change people - so it is possible that Salo might have a change of heart. If the outer circumstances change, the inner part might be affected.

However I have to admit, Salo is somebody I cannot warp my head around completely.

6. It also leaves me with a lot of questions about Viktor’s relationship to gratitude. The idea that people would be grateful enough to him to change their entire lives to live a way he approves of, to let him enter their bodies at will, that’s weird.

It isn´t weird. This is a cult made of desperate people, mostly from the undercity. Their lives were hard, desperate, people were dying, and justice was mostly granted to the strongest person.

I mean, heck, we do have people who follow Jinx like she is some kind of godess.

And Victor grants them now safety and care, "wholeness", health...that desperate and anxious people are easy prey for cults is - unfortunately-nothing new. And Victor is their leader, the person they consider their saviour. Of course they don´t see him as a human being with imperfections, but a higher being, something like a god. And aren´t you grateful to a god for taking care of you?

Taking over bodies...of course...Victor was testing their limits, but in cults worse things happened.

Huh. Jayce is not doing a terribly good job of explaining anything but he does try to talk to Viktor. Announcing that hextech is a curse and they have to end it with no explanation is not all that convincing - but, rather than ask Jayce why he thinks that, Viktor concludes that Jayce’s mind has been damaged by the Arcane and then immediately switches back to Salo who tries to leave. At least part of the lack of communication here is on Viktor for being so certain of his own rightness he takes Jayce’s disagreement as a sign of damage rather than trying to hear him out.

Of course, especially, since Jayce had been the one, who had tried to persuade Victor from the advantages of the arcane. And suddenly Jayce declared it a curse...The usual Jayce was quite eloquent at expressing himself...it was one of his strong points, while Victor did not dare to go out in the limelight.

So Jayce barely explaining his thoughts might finally feel weird, after the endorphines had settled down in Victor´s system.

“That isn’t Jayce. There is another will at work within him.” This declaration is made with great confidence and we never receive any evidence that it is true. I think pretty much everything Viktor says from now on requires fact checking, but this one was especially confusing on a first time viewing, because Viktor’s hanging out in the Arcane, he seems to know what he’s talking about, so it’s easy to take him at his word. The simplest answer, however, turns out to be that this is Jayce and Viktor just can’t handle the idea of Jayce killing Salo. Then again, Jayce will spend a lot of act 3 insisting that Viktor isn’t Viktor and I’m not sure either of them actually believe it, so they’re just being weird about being at odds with each other in the exact same way.

I have always interpreted it like this: their different forms hinder both of them to recognize, what actually takes place in the inner world of the other person.

In a sense, they have both betrayed their wishes for non-violence and feel threatened.

But the first statement of Victor is true, isn´t it? He just does not recognize that it was him, who Jayce made a promise with.

Well, the arcane is adapting and changing, reacting to the emotions of the people, that interact with it.

Victor used the arcane in order to "become whole" and lots of emotions must have gone into it, binding him stronger to it.

It is strange, but the "worse" characteristics of both characters separate them, somehow. Jayce suffers from PTSD and great guilt...Victor basically hides even more in the shadows, now in the form of the Herald.

Although Viktor clearly does feel some attachment to his body, shown by wanting to meet Jayce in person, this almost feels like some kind of magic assisted dissociation. The core of Viktor is in this safe place with all sorts of things to explore and Sky as the perfect, non-judgemental partner. The Herald is acting as a public figure while constantly hurting himself to heal others, but part of Viktor can just escape from all that and watch it through a screen.

Very interesting interpretation. Indeed. It does seem like some kind of dissociation.

Huck does not react normally to having a weapon drawn on him. Also, Viktor’s commune really does not seem to have any way to defend itself except asking people nicely to leave their weapons outside.

It does appear like some kind of paradise, right? It might be Victor´s apparently. I wonder, if Victor´s will or feelings are transmitted through the arcane, as he feeds the arcane the most.

Or if he arcane is helping him, since his wish for non-violence draws more people in?

Viktor’s commune is so pretty in a way that is clearly inspired by the wildrune or the Arcane in general and Huck describes it as “the Herald’s vision” so it does seem this is coming entirely from Viktor.

Yes, like this. It might have been his dream or vision.

I think that’s what’s hardest to imagine about season 1 Viktor starting a cult, he’s got too much of a sense of humour not to find that a bit silly and be embarrassed.

It does seem that he does not consider it funny...His humour was a way to deflect as well. Now he has another armour. Strangely, but it seems like this was Victor´s vision, that he took seriously enough...and the arcane exploited it in order to grow.

It’s fascinating that the hexcore seemingly can’t stop Viktor from burning himself out trying to save Vander. Sky tries to talk him out of doing it, and there’s certainly no advantage from the hexcore’s perspective, but Viktor can’t be swayed from doing what he believes is right. He’s still got agency here, it’s just that he’s been convinced to go along with the hexcore so far because it seemed like the right thing to do.

A very good observation. Indeed the cost were most likely more than the win...so the hexcore in the form of Skye was against it.

There’s something so innocent about the version of Viktor in the Arcane, treading through Vander’s brain with the same wonder as a cathedral. If there’s anything that indicates he’s not yet destroying the people he heals, no matter how strangely some of them are acting, it would be this I think. That he finds people’s minds beautiful. And he genuinely does seem to do some good for Vander.

Indeed.

“If you perish, this community is soon to follow.” I wonder if Singed is right that Viktor realises that? When Singed says it it sounds like a threat. Ambessa will destroy the community as soon as Viktor is gone because he’s the only one Singed is interested in preserving. But in retrospect it’s not a threat, doesn’t need to be a threat, everyone will die as soon as Viktor does. And I suspect Viktor doesn’t know that because he’s willing to martyr himself here to save Vander, but I can’t see him being willing to take others down with him.

But were they already gone? Or did they only die after Victor took their "energies"? Maybe it was not just Vander, but also the others? Destroying in effect, what Victor had desired.

The trust Viktor shows in Jayce is astounding. Jayce has been aggressive and unstable on his way through the commune but he still gets led straight to Viktor, and with a weapon in his hands too. Viktor isn’t even in his own body to receive him, meditating with his eyes closed as if Jayce couldn’t possibly be a threat to him.

Not really. It just does show, that Victor didn´t want to see Jayce as an enemy...in every case. At least until he learnt.

Jayce is the only person that knows the "invisible man" Victor better than anybody. Being alone hurts and Jayce has been for a long time Victor´s intermediate between the world and Victor.

So yes, I can understand, why he did not want to see him as an enemy for a long time.

I’m not sure why Viktor’s death affects Vander the way it does. I’ve heard it said Singed injects Vander with something earlier, but to me it looked like Caitlyn stopped him injecting Vander. It might be because Viktor hadn’t finished healing Vander? The ones fully assimilated just keel over, but because Vander’s not fully healed he’s also still alive but wounded.

Ah, yes, Victor is the source of the arcane...or let´s say his main meal...so it does make sense, that his death let the system topple over.

I feel like this revelation isn’t as deep as Viktor thinks it is, but he’s certainly not wrong. (Also I feel that maybe using weird magic you don’t understand on a bunch of people to create a hive mind is a bigger reason for the failure of the commune, but I digress.) It’s important to Arcane’s themes, anyway, since a lot of what works about the characters is that their virtues are the same as their flaws, just in different circumstances.

I would argue, that they are right regarding this aspect. The wish for revenge has annihilated many people and kingdoms. Of course, emotions, love, hate ect drive us. Even Silco and Vander might have been able to reconciliate and they do in another universe. Their feelings could either lead to a positive outcome or destruction. Of course this is right.

And even the arcane is powered by emotions...

However, unfair systems created by people in power do seem to me, as the reason the arcane or shimmer were created.

I would even argue, that this is how science partly works...try and error...Victor tried to create "paradise" with the power of the arcane, an immense power, yet he failed.

Even if not having had this revelation until two thirds of the way through the second season makes me think that Viktor is very naive, it does make sense for his character specifically if I look back through the lens of him not realising this. The assumption that good people will do good things for good reasons and bad people will do bad things for bad reasons goes some way to explaining the complete refusal to make weapons, which are designed to do harm, but lack of concern with possible side-effects from things intended to do good. Also his confusion at some of the things Jayce does, because Jayce is a good person in Viktor’s eyes, so it’s hard to understand when he does bad things.

Of course, he is naive. Victor hardly seem to have related to other people, outside of Jayce...even as a child, we did not see him play with the others, but only by himself.

His sarcastic attitude is a good armour to deflect and heck, not even Heimerdinger seemed to have cared for Victor so greatly, even though he might have known the lad since he was a boy.

Jayce is most likely everything Victor has always desired to be...The one in the limelight, the golden boy, the eloquent upper classman. I do guess, that shame was a big part of his life...shame regarding his origin, shame regarding his body, health...Victor has hardly wanted to face other people.

I guess, that people did show gratitude for him was one of the greatest things he has experienced...His changed body, that he had previously despised became a source of pride, suddenly. And yes, I do believe, he was maybe also naive regarding the arcane...even though he knew that it took lives, he "healed" them...not realizing that the arcane might have consumed during the "healing process".

That’s a really interesting point about Ekko. In a lot of ways he feels like a counterpoint, a character who is doing things right, but of course his image is also artificial. And we’re introduced (re-introduced) to him with a music video style introduction that highlights the artificiality and aesthetics of his persona.

I wouldn’t have said Viktor rejected Sky as a child. Failed to connect with her, certainly. He was shy and tried to direct her attention to his boat instead of talking to her, but it seems clear to me that he wanted to connect.

Ooh. Yeah, that’s a good point. Viktor gets a lot (a lot) of gothic horror tropes and references, it’s interesting to see him get a more modern one too.

Yeah, he’s excited, that’s for sure! And it really might be just that, that his more natural body language isn’t related to the body he finds himself in at all, but simply to Jayce himself. And, yeah, it’s potentially normal enough that he doesn’t realise Jayce is hostile - as I said, Jayce is the same about not wanting to realise Viktor is angry with him after Viktor leaves the hexcore. There’s just a lot going on in terms of “is Viktor or is he not being affected by the hexcore” at every point in season 2 so I’m vacillating a lot and trying to consider both possibilities.

5/6. I still think this is weird. There’s some truth in that, that Viktor is helping only people desperate enough to come looking for an unknown healer, but he’s also not turning people away. There’s none of the pre-selection you’d get in a real cult where only the most vulnerable are chosen. And people leave real cults, or, perhaps especially, nearly get drawn in but ultimately make other choices. We see from Vi and Jinx, who have not been affected by Viktor other than for him to give them help and shelter, that they act more normally about it. They’re still drawn in by the hope Viktor’s commune offers, and they may even have stayed if things had been different, but they evaluate it. For no one Viktor healed to want healing so much they went to him but still decide his commune was unlikely to work? Or to have a passion in a different direction from farming that, in the end, they couldn’t bring themselves to give up?

Salo especially feels chosen by the writers to highlight the unnatural nature of it, simply because he did have other options especially once he was healed. He was feeling the humiliation of being disregarded by the council and dismissed by Ambessa, he was struggling with pain and shimmer addiction, but he still had money. He could have gone home once his legs were healed as that solved half his problems. It is ambiguous, though, deliberately I’m sure. Salo’s shown to us at a low enough point that it’s not totally implausible he could develop this devotion to someone who helped him.

Aww, you stopped using numbers, I was finding those useful :D

“There is another will at work within him,” is true if you take that as “another will he made a promise to” rather than “another will possessing him”, but that is not what Viktor made it sound like.

The Arcane potentially being at work in Jayce as well as in Viktor, reacting to both of their different emotions and pushing them further into them is a very interesting thought. If the hallucinations are the Arcane manifesting Jayce’s trauma and pushing him to act to prevent that future just as Viktor is seeing people’s pain pushing him to go further to heal it.

Your words. “But were they already gone? Or did they only die after Victor took their "energies"? Maybe it was not just Vander, but also the others? Destroying in effect, what Victor had desired.”

That is the question, isn’t it? I’m inclined to think them already gone, and yet I can’t say at all. I think this is one of the most deliberately ambiguous points because it seems to mirror a point of LoL lore where the conflict between Jayce and Viktor (and Viktor’s rejection of emotions) starts with a situation that Viktor and Jayce see very differently. Unfortunately I can no longer find the event in their bios to compare because of the lore being in flux.

Yeah, it’s understandable that Viktor does not want to believe Jayce would hurt him.

Your words “Of course, he is naive. Victor hardly seem to have related to other people, outside of Jayce…even as a child, we did not see him play with the others, but only by himself.”

Yeah, it seems unfair to call someone with as many difficulties as Viktor “sheltered” but it’s the only word that comes to mind, even though it’s not really the one I want. This is very true of him, that he just hasn’t been around people very much, at least not in any way that isn’t very guarded on his part.

That’s a good point about how much it must have meant to him for people to show gratitude. It reminds me of how much it affects Jinx in the prison, to have people touch her almost reverently in thanks for her rescue, and how much that affects her attitude going forwards. It matters a lot to feel like you’ve been able to do something right.

[higuchisora]

"Her choice to oppress people and commit acts of fascism is NUANCED! Don't be mean 😢😢😢"

Hey do me a favor and never talk again lmao

Like even aside from Arcane, that is certainly... A Take. Possibly the Take of All Time, even. At some point I was glad to see people discuss character nuance... only to realize they actually either didn't know or didn't give a shit and was only using it to mindlessly defend their faves. Like yeah, Silco, for example, was nuanced... he's still a villain lmao. Caitlyn is nuanced. She's still a dictator, babe, lol. Someone being multifaceted- because that's really what they mean- doesn't absolve them of their actions or mean they need to be given grace. Just as I won't pardon Silco for poisoning his own citizens - the people he claimed to want to liberate - I will not pardon Caitlyn for gassing the streets, arresting random people (including children), assaulting her girlfriend, etc. I really don't care why she did it. That's not the point. I can understand why, in the sense that I'm provided an explanation- but I still will criticize the decisions they made.

And yes, oppression PLAYS A PART. Their class PLAYS A PART. Silco was a Zaunite. Caitlyn is from Piltover. Her actions were already worse than his, but with the added level of being from the OPPRESSOR CLASS- her actions are made even worse. Even if they'd done the exact same thing, her actions would be worse because she's already directly benefiting from the suffering of Zaunites even without actively committing crimes and being a fascist. If instead of being a dictator, she'd become a drug kingpin, she'd objectively be worse than Silco on the basis of her coming from a place of privilege. She doesn't fucking need to do that to gather funds- she already has the money. She doesn't need to experiment on shimmer as a weapon- she already has hextech.

Which is also why I find it interesting when people compare her to Jinx- an orphaned Zaunite who has lived her entire life in unfair, unsafe conditions, without proper access to even the basic necessity of clean fucking air. And you find her revenge-killing a SPECIFIC SET of people to be on par with Caitlyn attacking an entire community? Possibly thousands of people, none of which have done anything to her?

"Well what did the council to do Jinx-" be so fucking for real. Out of everyone in Piltover, if anyone is directly fucking responsible for Zaun's suffering, it's THE COUNCIL. And yes, that includes Cassandra fucking Kiramman. She went off to that round table every fucking day and sat there while Zaunites died. They are literally the ones who consistently made the decision to let Zaunites suffer every. Fucking. Day. The enforcers are literally their fault- if they wanted reforms, they'd make a damn policy change. But they didn't. They sanctioned the gunning down of everyone on the bridge the day Jinx and Vi's parents were killed. They sanctioned the lack of worker's rights. They sanctioned the unsafe environment. They sanctioned child labor. They sanctioned unclean water. They sanctioned their suffering.

So yeah, Jinx blew them to bits. And? What will be missed?

Meanwhile, Caitlyn thinks an entire city should answer for this "loss". The only ones who lost anything "good" was her and her father. No one else is shedding tears. That's not to say no one can mourn- again, as multifaceted people, there were things about Cassandra worth mourning for to some- like her husband and daughter, who lost a wife and mother. But you can only do so much harm and so much good before the balance of who you are starts to tip a certain way. I don't care how many volunteer hours you put in at the homeless shelter if you turn around and beat your kids when you get home. Caitlyn's actions have tipped her balance, the same way the council's actions tipped theirs.

Stealing this from my Twitter too. One of the worst things about the Arcane fandom is that it’s impossible to criticize a character’s actions without people jumping down your throat ranting about “morally gray” and “but this character was in the wrong too!”

Girl idgaf!!! I shouldn’t have to bring up “not everything is black and white” and “character complexity” before I try to criticize a character’s actions! Oh my goodness you can’t “but nuance!” your way out of everything! Obviously I understand the situation and characters are full of nuance! That doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be allowed to criticize them! It’s possible to understand something and still dislike it. Stop being so condescending and acting like I don’t understand a character just cause I don’t like them. It’s precisely BECAUSE I understand them that I don’t like them.

To continue this tryna be like “well everyone was in the wrong!” falls flat for two reasons. One, the system of inequality that Piltover set up means that there is a fundamental difference between the wrongs of Piltover and the wrongs of Zaun. Trying to put them on the same level makes 0 sense. There are different levels to being wrong, so yes I have more sympathy for the oppressed characters than I do for the characters who are responsible for perpetuating that oppression in the first place. And for two, idc what the other characters did. I’m talking about one character, bringing up another one and trying to move the goal post does not help your point. I see this most often whenever people try to criticize Caitlyn or explain why they dislike her. It’s always “But Jinx did this!” “Ambessa manipulated her!” “But Vi said/did this too!” “Silco was doing this!” Girl idgaf!!! I don’t care what they did or didn’t do! If I’m criticizing one character for their shitty actions, I don’t need you to put on a cape and try to defend your fave by dragging all the other characters into it(and purposely misunderstanding their actions to try to make your point, I might add). Just accept the criticism and go, ugh 🙄🙄🙄