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kitkatopinions · 3 years ago

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(Rabbithole Anon) Y'know, I was going to send in an ask about just they could have made a compelling way to show how some people may have become hunters through pressure rather than an age excuse if they wanted to say some people weren't ready (joining to protect a friend who wanted to be one, wanting to travel for a variety of reasons, it being a general expectation but the person being hesitant) but it led to me wondering wait, would certain careers require a hunting lisence?

Okay, I love this rabbit hole. XD It illustrates a couple of RWBY problems here and it's the fact that they often are lacking in the character development/character journey department, and that they're often lacking in the world building department.

We actually have plenty of characters that can serve as examples for people who maybe should've thought twice about entering the Academy (when they did.) There are people who entered the Academy for the wrong reasons/not noble reasons, people who entered the Academy during a time they might not have been ready, and people who would be full on dangerous with a Hunter badge, and most of our mains fall under one of these categories (though mostly the first two.)

Ruby - Two years below the standard age of her class. Whether or not she was at the skill level of a first year (she was,) and whether or not she'd received special training from Qrow (she had,) Ruby was still essentially a kid, and her mind and body both hadn't developed completely. Ruby should have been traumatized after the Fall of Beacon and been allowed to show that more as a character, she should've had straight up PTSD, she should've been allowed to have emotion in Volume 4 than Jaune's sidekick who makes sad eyes when she sees him grieving. Weiss - Her main motivation for joining Beacon was to reclaim her family legacy. Yes, her desire was to reclaim it and use it for good, but it was still arguably more about personal and familial glory. On top of that, Weiss has been blatantly anti Faunus and has never so much as addressed that. Weiss's character journey should have reflected more personal growth, and either her unlearning much of her Faunus racism and clearly changing priorities from her name and family legacy and onto the actual people in need, or her flaws should've led her into being more of a morally gray character who displays her selfishness and pride (in a way that's actually addressed and treated like a flaw.) Yang - She expresses admiration for people like Ruby who want to help people and be kind, but her main point in becoming a Huntress was getting thrills and going where the wind takes her. She didn't join Beacon for any sort of serious purpose, and even when she rejoined Team RWBY in volume five, it was to be with her sister and not because of her own morals (not that I think she's lacking in morals, just that her main motive was different.) This could lead to her having to figure out a lot of what she actually wants, being unsatisfied with being a Huntress in Atlas, being in over her head when things get serious, being more mentally exhausted than the others after long days, etc. Jaune - Wasn't ready to enter Beacon. Idk if he just wasn't allowed to go to a lesser combat school like Signal or if he flunked out, but he wasn't up to scratch to get into Beacon and cheated his way in. On top of that, he lacked in the emotional maturity department as well when he entered. Jaune was a little more invested in his own appearance than Ruby was, but still seemed to have similar good reasons for wanting to be a Hunter. And he did grow a lot. But he was much less prepared, skilled, or equipped to deal with the training or the career and it's a miracle he didn't die in the initiation. Granted, Jaune was handled arguably better than anyone else, since a lot of this was addressed, but these days it feels like it isn't actually playing a part in his character anymore that he's way below the people around him, and I feel like it should still be impacting him. Penny: Honestly, Penny seemed very newly born during the Beacon Arc. She might have been combat ready, but she also started spilling secrets to the first person who was a little bit nice to her, and was clearly naïve and childlike. Imagine if it had been Emerald that had befriended Penny instead of Ruby. Penny dying and then getting resurrected should've been deeply traumatizing for her and it should've made her undergo some major changes and been treated with importance in the show. Qrow: Literally wanted to be a Hunter in the first place to try and learn how to murder Huntsmen. He might have changed later and it’s not exactly relevant, but he arguably shouldn't have joined when he did either. Meanwhile, Nora's just one big mystery, because we don't know why she joined, and Ren likely joined for good reasons, but neither of them have ever actually talked about their motivations. The only character we can safely say joined for noble reasons and who was up to scratch and ready when she entered is Blake, who also had good reason to not fully trust the system she was working with, so there could've been complications and character interest there as well.

Please don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean I don't think the others should've been in school, I love that they were! I just think the writers should've explored the various ways they might've been not fully ready, not completely well suited to the job they took. The characters are allowed to be flawed and to flounder and it'd make them more full, nuanced characters imo.

On top of that, we have other Hunters to look to as well, outside of our main cast. Cardin, for example, was a terrible person, still in school and already abusing what little power he had to target a member of an oppressed minority group and blackmail other kids into doing his bidding, while plotting revenge on someone for correcting him on his anti-Faunus answer to a question. People like him should not be Hunters, and he was arguably our first sign (of many signs) that the position of Hunter can and will be taken advantage of and misused by bad people. And although the After the Fall/Before the Dawn books aren't canon, while reading BTD (I haven't finished it yet,) Coco and all her team members but Velvet also struck me as people I wouldn't want to be Hunters and wouldn't want to wield any sort of power. Coco is proudly described by one of her friends as sadistic, lets her unfounded opinions of people cloud her judgement, shows respect and admiration towards criminals, and enjoys her classmates being afraid of her. Fox is self-described as sadistic as well and is a bully who tried to use a classmate's phobia against them in a brute-like interrogation. And Yatsuhashi is leagues above the two of them, but also bullied Neptune despite saying the words 'I don't want to be a bully' and threatened him.

There are so many ways the writers could've explored people who went to Beacon too soon, weren't ready, or entered for the wrong reasons. Instead, outside of one conversation in season two about the girls’ motivations and Ren exploding that Jaune cheated his way into Beacon all the way in season eight, it seems like the only take away we're supposed to get is 'all these kids are officially the thing they wanted to be in the beginning and they're all amazing at it, woo!' No acknowledgement of the fact that they could use higher education still, that some of them are still immature or naïve, that some of them are still below the combat level they should be in, that some of them kinda haven't done super well since they left Beacon (cough Ruby cough.) It's all just... Flat, lackluster. And meanwhile, characters like Cardin were written out of the show easily. We've had plenty of examples of corruption in the Hunter business, but the show hasn't paid any attention to that and still is treating being a Hunter like the only true noble goal and the only good and non-corruptible way to defend people, despite the fact that it clearly isn’t. Being a Huntress is not better or safer or more noble in-universe than being an Atlas soldier/Ace Op/Atlas hunter. I’m not saying that all of this needed to be featured, but exploring the differences in motivation and how the Hunter lifestyle affected the various mains could really flesh out their characters. Instead, by the time everyone is heading to Atlas in volume six, they all pretty much have the same reactions to everything and the same motivations and the same beliefs. The rare deviation - like Ren in volume seven and eight - is treated as bad and a mistake that must be rectified, rather than... A natural consequence of the group being full of different people with different upbringings and different motivations that result in different opinions. That sort of thing is only ever explored as a problem that makes someone lacking, and it’s really weird and it makes the show feel... Juvenile, and lacking in nuance or depth when it comes to the characters, which is a really big shame, since the characters have a huge amount of potential and exploring the differences between them and their reactions to being in way over their heads would be - I think - the natural place to take their characters? Especially because so far their storyline has been... Not the highlight of the show.

But, as for how semblances and Hunters should impact the world building, there’s a lot to say about that! They don’t explore a lot in RWBY outside of what’s relevant to the mains, leaving the world building feeling flat and like the world itself doesn’t matter much. RWBY often feels more like a video game world than anything else, which I believe @why-i-hate-rwby-now has pointed out, so credit to them for helping me realize it. There’s one large location per continent and a couple small villages where they only really talk to a town leader and village blacksmith, or encounter a fight, relevant NPCs and characters only going to certain locations that can further the plot, characters only mattering through the ways they interact with the protagonists and seemingly getting benched with nothing to do if they aren’t currently plot relevant, health bars that can be monitored over scrolls, every weapon and semblance has a name even if that name isn’t ever mentioned in show or might not really make a lot of sense, frequently encountered enemies of various threat levels who the characters can plow down without remorse because they’re not sentient or don’t have souls... The list goes on. But one of the ways that it feels very video gamey is that the magical powers actually don’t seem to impact the world.

We know people can have auras even if they don’t have semblances (Mercury, Torchwick, Watts,) and we know lots of even grown people don’t have auras (the citizens of Mantle in danger of dying of cold while our aura having mains aren’t,) but also that auras can be unlocked, by well trained seventeen year olds (Pyrrha,) and we also know that semblances can be unlocked from a very young age due to trauma (Ren, Neptune in EU) but some people are born with their semblances (Qrow and notably Blake use language suggesting they were born with their semblances,) and some semblances are passed down or hereditary (the Schnees.) Semblances can be passive (Qrow, Clover, Ironwood in word of author,) and uncontrollable, or active (almost everyone else,) and some semblances have carried personal negative effects like in the case of Qrow who was even named for being bad luck and Robyn who said people were on edge with her because she can sus out the truth via skin contact when she wants to. Also Mercury’s father was able to somehow take away his semblance.

That’s... Pretty much the extent of our knowledge and it doesn’t tell us much. What RWBY does is give each character abilities that make them iconic and different from each other as fighters, with a shield function that wears down slowly to explain how they can take certain hits and keep going while also allowing them to eventually suffer higher damage when that shield wears down. They had a character get this shield ability unlocked to explain the existence and function of it, and featured some characters who didn’t have the super powered abilities like Roman, an early enemy meant to herald in new, harder enemies who are more plot relevant, and Mercury, who makes up for it by having higher speed and functions exclusive to him through his prosthetics. And then they seemingly built a regular world unaffected by these powers. It sounds like a video game. Civilians just don’t have this power or the shield because they act as non-playable characters. In a way, it almost makes sense to me in conception, because when RWBY was originally created, it was high on visual appeal, fight choreography, and character design. The plot elements were small and the character stories seemed to be pretty simple, the only real complication to this being the White Fang plot, which has always been a major blight in RWBY. But one of the reasons why this video-game feel kinda worked at the start of RWBY was because the story and characters weren’t meant to be the focus of the story, so although the world building at the start was definitely lacking, the audience knew that things like auras and semblances were meant to hype up and add interest to the main highlights of the show: Design and fight choreography. At least that’s what I assume. But in volume three, they started to lay the groundwork for more, bigger plots, more focus on the story, the characters journeying to the outside world, undergoing personal arcs, and that’s what V4 and onward started focusing on.

To be clear, I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. I started really liking RWBY for its potential and concepts after getting through the first couple episodes of V1, but I actually really enjoyed quite a bit of V4 and V5 even though the design drastically changed and the fighting had gone way down in quality because I found some of the new focus on characters and the plot to be compelling, interesting, or to also have a lot of potential (though I was let down over and over in regards to pay off later.) However, with the new focus on the characters and storyline rather than design and fight choreography, they really needed to do some legwork on fixing the aura and semblance systems and paying attention to world building and making sure the world felt well put together, nuanced, and real. And I don’t feel like they ever did that.

Why is Pyrrha able to unlock auras? Well, because the writers wanted to explain the concept of auras and used Jaune - the unprepared - to do it. But now, auras are actually an important part of the story - for example, the people of Mantle don’t have unlocked auras, so will die of cold, but it doesn’t affect our heroes because they do have unlocked auras. So who can unlock auras? Is it a learned skill or is it hereditary? If it’s a learned skill, why isn’t everyone eager to learn it especially in places where it’s life or death if they don’t like in Atlas? If it’s a hereditary skill, why aren’t the people who have that skill put on a pedestal and being pressured into using that skill to save civilians in places where having an aura is the difference between life and death? In either case, why aren’t there people who professionally unlock auras? Why aren’t they on the pay roll in Atlas and Mantle? If it’s a skill that all powerful hunters have, why aren’t our heroes (who we’re supposed to think are now more powerful than Atlas’s best) unlocking auras for dying children in Mantle? Why don’t specialists and longtime fighters with Qrow, Winter, Robyn, Maria, or James have this ability if it comes with skill, time, or talent?

Why are semblances unlocking or morphing in times of trauma so rare? Why didn’t the Fall of Beacon unlock loads of new semblances and new semblance abilities? Why didn’t Ruby get a new semblance upgrade when she saw Weiss getting stabbed? Why didn’t Weiss unlock a new semblance ability when her plane was crashing? Why didn’t Pilot Boi unlock his semblance during the same occasion? Why is it that Jaune didn’t get a semblance upgrade when the light bridges were disappearing? Why didn’t Blake get a semblance upgrade when Yang fell into the void? Why did Ren get a semblance upgrade because he was upset while with the Ace Ops after Oscar got captured, but Nora doesn’t get an upgrade while she’s electrocuting herself? If semblances sometimes unlock in times of truama, why is it that some characters like Oscar and Torchwick and Jaune pre-V5 who we know have encountered lots of trauma just still don’t get semblances? If you can train your semblance into upgrading, why is it that we don’t see long time hunters and fighters unlock more semblance abilities, like Qrow, Winter, Robyn, Maria, or James? It just doesn’t make any sense! And I get that stories always have things happening just because the writers want it, but in RWBY, the hand of the creator is so obvious that it’s ridiculous.

And then there are other questions. Do people avoid bad labor practices out of fear of causing a semblance awakening? Well, from what we see of the SDC, the answer is no. So why not? Why weren’t they worried about an uprising? Work rights becomes a lot trickier when you have to add in tons of qualifiers. Maybe it’s illegal to use a semblance at work, but the SDC also has a history of child workers like Adam who can’t always control it (like Neptune couldn’t control his,) so are there laws protecting child laborers? Perhaps not, since you know, they were already child laborers, so were already suffering unchecked. Are there laws forbidding the use of semblances in government buildings, non-combat driven schools, or parks and libraries? And meanwhile, how would any of this apply to people with a passive semblance? How do you figure out that someone has a passive semblance? How do people know if they’re born with a semblance? Are there people that spend their whole lives having semblances that never get discovered? Do people have semblance detection... Semblances, that they get paid to use or do so out of charity? Did the Schnees rise to power due to their powerful and hereditary semblance, perhaps? Are people discriminated against if they don’t have semblances or pressured to become Hunters if they discover they do have semblances? Shouldn’t civilians in Mantle and Atlas be joining combat schools in droves in the hopes of unlocking an aura so they can better survive? And shouldn’t there be discrimination against people with certain semblances? Outside of Robyn saying she’s personally experienced mistrust, and Qrow’s self-hatred, we don’t see any real prejudice against certain semblance types, or for that matter, any praise or extra significance pointed to certain other semblance types. It would go a long ways towards world building if there were things like people having to divulge their semblance or lack thereof before entering Beacon, or for people to have to register a semblance evolution, or for Emerald to have lied about her semblance because “everyone knows illusion semblances automatically draw suspicion,” or for Qrow to comment that he’d never seen Clover in a Vytal Tournament, only for Clover to say his semblance was deemed ‘cheating’ back when he was in school so he hadn’t qualified. And on the flip side, you could have things like semblances being judged as better and more powerful based on how useful it might be, Pyrrha keeping her semblance on the DL because it’ll just bring more unwanted admiration on her, Sun keeping his own semblance on the DL too because it always make people put a lot of expectations on him, while Neptune’s semblance leaks and he deals with people treating him like he’s selfish and cruel for not wanting to use his own “gift of a semblance.” And people like Jaune could be bullied extra because he doesn’t have his semblance yet, and people in the stands at the Vytal Tournament could be chatting about “when are they gonna pull out their semblances?” and get annoyed and pouty when people don’t. To be fair, we do get things like Mercury’s father having declared his semblance a crutch, but... Still. why isn’t there more of this?

And we see the need for Hunter protection in villages like Kuroyuri and the village that Team RNJR stops to help on the way to Mistral. Small villages outside of the four kingdoms fall to Grimm, or are in danger of falling to Grimm. Ships get attacked by large and dangerous Grimm, we see (corrupt) Hunters on the train to Argus, accompanying for safety, and we see that with a rise of Grimm activity in Mantle, Hunters are dispatched to help kids travel to school. In a world like RWBY, fighting is essential for survival outside of the Kingdoms, and became very essential in the kingdoms as well once schools started going down. You’d assume there should be Hunters accompanying everyone traveling outside of the Kingdoms, resident Hunters living in villages outside the Kingdoms as their on-hand protectors (and more than one Hunters seems to be needed.) Hunters also could be extra protection for anything that’s definitely going to increase negativity, like hiring Hunters to bodyguard funerals seems like something that could be normal in the world of Remnant, and for visiting graveyards (we see Ruby get attacked by tons of Grimm when she visited Summer’s grave in the red trailer.) On top of that, celebrities and rich people hiring Hunters seems like it’d become pretty common. But all that we see outside of Dee and Dudley are traveling Hunters stopping to help people out of the goodness of their heart while they go place to place, and Kingdom Hunters who are assigned to things like border control, clearing out Grimm near or in the Kingdoms, and things like that. What we see is a Kingdom-centered morality complex our protagonists are one hundred percent invested in, Hunters are Kingdom driven and anything outside of that is a kindness, a job they can take or leave in passing. And on top of that, it seems like there aren’t a lot of people in the Hunter profession, and I feel like there should definitely be more. There are people like Jaune who didn’t make the cut but accepted that, we can only assume that there are drop outs too, so like... How many kids are there actually in a year at Beacon? I mean, look at where the Relics were found in the forest during initiation at Beacon.

This gives us a rough idea of how many people are in each year at Beacon. Assuming everyone graduates school and there’s no drop outs and no deaths, that’s a graduating class of twenty. That’s a very small number, comparatively. The job of a Hunter is dangerous. We know of Hunters that died (Summer, Pyrrha, Amber.) We know a lot of Hunters that have other jobs that take a lot of their time (Glynda, Ozpin, Robyn,) and lots of people who quit being Hunters too (Maria, Tai, Raven,) and Hunters who aren’t always on the field like Qrow who was a teacher for a stretch and acted as Ozpin’s spy, the Ace Ops who became part of Ironwood’s inner circle and therefore had a bigger picture, and even all of Team RWBYJNR, who got their Hunter licenses but are also more concerned with bigger picture stuff (if you don’t believe me just look at volume eight where JRY stopped defending Mantle to go rescue Oscar, and Team RWBN + Penny, who were involved in big picture stuff like launching Amity and then saving Penny the Maiden/their friend.) So out of a class of twenty, how many of them are even staying on the field? For a show pushing the narrative that Hunters are the ultimate saviors who are the only true good defense for the world, that condemns even the notion of an army... Like they villainized sending Team FNKI onto the battlefield while also treating it like proof of Ironwood’s evil when he didn’t want to stay and fight when Team RWBY said to, and also made Ironwood’s desire to move into having a robotic army to get soldiers off of the battlefield part of his... Over reliance on machinery, which is full on suspicious considering their ableism towards Ironwood and the fact that he literally has to rely on machinery, but that’s a topic for a different post and this one is already so long. But yeah, my point is that we’re meant to see the army as bad. So if we’re meant to see Hunters as the only true and pure form of defense (which is already off because we know it’s corrupted,) there ought to be way more people in the Hunter field.

As for the schools, we only know of a couple of schools that exist outside of RWBY as combat schools that seem to act as basic training before people go to Beacon. We know of Signal, the school Ruby and Yang went to that Qrow was a teacher at for awhile (I have lots of teacher Qrow headcanons, but sadly Qrow being a teacher wasn’t very well explored,) and we also know of Sanctum in Mistral and (in the EU) Oscuro in Vacuo, presumably one of these existing in Atlas as well. I personally headcanon that there are a lot of these smaller combat schools littering the whole of Remnant (but then again, I also headcanon that the Kingdoms of Remnant are bigger than just one very large city, lol) and that a lot of people attend these schools even if they don’t go on to join one of the Hunter Academies, but this isn’t necessarily supported by canon, I think. But as for other schools...I think it’s fair to assume that there are at least elementary schools, since everyone can read, write, and presumably do basic math, and what we do know is that Ilia went to a prep school in Atlas (which was info dropped in Blake’s pre-V5 trailer, not even stated in the show proper,) so we can probably safely say that people who don’t go to the Huntsman academies go to some form of high school, but you’re right that we don’t see this actually in action. I personally always headcanon that Whitley had a tutor, since Jacques wanted to avoid too much outside influence.

I am so sorry that this response got so away from me and I myself got into so many rabbit holes as well. XD I just have a lot to say about the world building in RWBY (or sometimes lack thereof.) Although I admit that I’m not as into or as good at analyzing as blogs like why-i-hate-rwby-now, but yeah, this is... A very long post. Sorry!

#rwde #anti rwby #rwby bashing #rwby hate #this post includes some #pro ironwood #pro james ironwood #also it's not like I've done a lot of extensive research so please be kind #if I missed something #IW antis please leave me alone

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nighttimepixels · 3 years ago

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TALK TO US ABOUT MASS EFFECT I HAVE BEEN AN INSANE MASS EFFECT/SHAKARIAN TRASH PERSON SINCE 20-FUCKING-11 AND LEMME TELL YOU THOSE FEELINGS HAVENOT TARNISHED A SINGLE FRACTION IN THOSE TEN YEARS OH MY GOOOOOOODDDSSSS!!!!!!!

I DEMAND A PLAY-BY-PLAY UP TO THE MINUTE OF YOUR REACTIONS TO EVERYTHING!!!!

you are so valid and I totally see why everyone I've ever mentioned it to loves the hell out of it

aksdjlsdfj I meannnn if you want to hear my rambling about it then hell yeah

Okay, gonna put this below the cut to save everyone else XD also- since I'm not leaving this Mass Effect obsession anytime soon, if you're not interested in seeing occasional posts about it, please feel free to block the tag "night plays ME"~

(mild spoilers ahead??)

((also for real I mean it when I say this is rambling as hell lol, apologies and no stress if absolute no one reads all this))

OKAY SO Mass Effect 1-

Stars help me, I was honestly hooked right from the start?? Like even in Legendary Edition (the combined trilogy just re-released in one "can play it on one system + minor improvements", for anyone who doesn't know) where it's smoothed out, of course it's obvious that ME1 is a decade old... but the foundation for these relationships are all there and gods I love them already.

Like - Kaiden right off the top is a delightful good fightin lad, what the hell. I've heard that he's viewed as 'bland' by a good portion of the fan community but I dunno, he's a delight and even more complex by the time 2 rolls around and you encounter him on Horizon, it was honestly Ashley I was way more meh about - mostly because before you can learn about her family history/etc, she comes off as hella xenophobic and I was immediately offended for my growing space family that she didn't like/trust all the aliens around, pfff.

(she gets redeemed a bit through further actions/evolving thoughts, but I thought in retrospect it was a bummer that they didn't flip the order there, give her a chance to be liked before the complicating factor of being so rude about aliens >:c that then she could grow from... ah well. Apparently she has a good arc but uh, let's just say I chose Kaiden at the "key junction" in the latter part of the game so I won't be seeing anymore of Ashley uh... anytime soon, haha.)

Garrus??? Is??????? The ABSOLUTE best???????????

I liked him from the start, I'm always a bit of a sucker for a rogue-detective "the system won't bring this bastard to justice, so I've got to" type and all their moral shadiness XD But he just gets better, honestly, and where I'm at in ME2 (right before the Reaper IFF mission, as of typing this, with everyone's loyalty!) I am only digging myself deeper into this hole-

-*wheezing* okay anyways -

Wrex is AMAZING I love fightin' middle-aged krogan bastard, gods. Liara is great too, I'm a sucker for a wlw relationship (playing fem!Shepard, so) - buuuut I'll admit she's a bit more one-note in ME1. Last week while I was still on ME1 I remember hearing (while trying to dodge spoilers) that her arc is really good, though. I think they leaned a little hard on the 'innocent but sexy' sterteotype on her (so despite the yikes aspect of a few of the things I've learned in ME2, lol, I actually really like the complexity that's been added to her character.)

Saved Liara first, so by the time I got to Noveria and had the standoff with Benezia there was the chance to have emotions over Liara having to face her TwT and of course, I made the questionable but quality decision to free Queen Rachni heheh. no ragrets

More than a blow-by-blow of my choices though I totally wanna take the chance to say that even in the mild jankiness of ME1 (goddammit, the Mako.... please..... please just go up this impossible cliff I just want to resource hunt-) the way that the lore, both obvious/key to main plot and the lesser/filler/background/world-building kinds... I just love it. It incorporates it well, you can go ham in the codex learning more, or just dive into the basics - it's clearly a complex galaxy (and they do an even better job in 2 of fleshing it out further), and it never really felt overwhelming. It was pretty natural figuring it all out-!

Plus the interesting implications of resource hunting amongst the sapient races, and the little side missions you better bet I did every one of- there's so much rich depth in the story if you do 'em!! (And that lead with that Keeper side mission...? Looking back, damn, clever foreshadowing-!!!)

And oh my gods, Ilios??? hell yeah. I loved that mission so much, especially having Garrus & Kaiden with me when talking to the hologram/computer, and more than anything, that last sprint in the Mako trying to get to the jump before it closed-???

yeet the boi-

Also mannn I love a good setpiece, and having to go up the side of the elevator, space-side?? such a cool setup!!

Plus it felt good having been Paragon enough (as simple as the good v bad vibe system is, I don't hate it, lol) to avoid one of the Saren fights, ngl. And the er, "second fight" with Sovereign-Saren.... hell yeah

... I'll admit I had to double check my choice re whether to save the Council. I did in the end, but I swear, sometimes the way they phrase things I'm like ".... okay but Garrus is right, defeating Sovereign is more important than these few leaders??????" woops. Listen, priorities, is all I'm saying..... (￣ヮ￣|||)ゞ

'Course later they emphasize (in ME2) that there were 10,000 people on that same ship and I was like well I wouldn't have second guessed if I'd known that, I mean c'mon-

Also I did indeed romance Liara in this one, so I got that scene ;Dc But,,,, I also knew by the end that I was totally gonna romance Garrus in 2 since he's an option then finally,,,,, lemme tell you the guilt as I waffled over whether to romance Liara bc of it. hahaha.

Aaaaand Mass Effect 2-

So I'm only up to right before the Reaper IFF Mission, so I don't know the ending, etc etc lol. That said, I've just finished every side mission I've found with the exception of the Shadowbroker Quest and the Arrival Quest (I've heard the latter basically leads into ME3, and the former is best either right before the Omega 4 jump or in postgame).

So from the start - fuck yeah fuck yeah what a high adrenaline start Shepard noooooo but also yes save Joker aH-

The motion comic too hot damn nice job

I loved this setup, seriously - especially forcing Shep into this situation, having to work with/for Cerberus, and the compelling reasoning given behind "why" they do what they do (I especially found it a good point that the Salarians have the Task Force, the Asaris the Commandos, the Turians the- etc... like, true, when you put it like that, having a similar group advancing human interests/solving human interstellar problems is pretty reasonable...). That said, I love too that it really isn't shied away from how Cerberus is nonetheless fucked up - or its at least done fucked up stuff.

Listen, I still think some messed up stuff is gonna be revealed in 2's endgame......... after that Horizon mission and the Collector's ship???? TIM I SEE YOU YOU SHADY MF-

aaanyways lol...

I'm so so glad on a gameplay level they nixed the Mako style exploration. A few Hammerhead missions are fine and a lot more focused than the slippery ass navigation in that glorified ATV, pfff. The probes are a neat way of getting after similar resources - and more importantly, having good levels and some good hubs (the Zakera Wards, Omega, Ilium, etc) is way way more fun than having a more 'sprawling' space that is.... a lot of empty nonsense, lol.

Then there's the fact that we get Joker right off the bat and you can interact with him so much - and him and EDI??? Get out gods I love them. Kasumi is so right when she says they sound like a bickering old married couple lol. I have a terrible feeling that some shit is gonna happen with EDI..... but I don't think she's evil as-is, at least.

Side-eying the hell out of those "access forbidden" parts of her that she doesn't even know.... and the fact that her AI core has a locked door access................... something's gonna happen gdi LEAVE OUR ADOPTED AI ALONE.

(Also Joker pls stop fracturing your thumb on the mute button)

Also please save me there are so many hot aliens in this game,,,,, the xeno/monsterfuckers really comin' through strong in the sequels............... doin' the lord's work........................................

In general, I love how many levels ME stepped up in two with complexity and interwoven narratives!! Like, to the point it'd be almost a drag to replay ME1, even though it was fun going through it (if occasionally a bit tedious with the cookie cutter rando planet science/mine facilities, lol). Like, just from how fun and interesting ME2 is, mostly! more of all the pre-introduced races, plus new ones, plus more filling in of intragalactic politics, and more interesting implications of all these space-faring races mixing....

Also gods WREX and his planet holy shit,,,,, fuckin' hell yeah my man get their shit together and also adopt Grunt yes good-

And Mordin??? My singing semi-evil scientist best friend forced to confront his choices more than he thought he ever would have???? With some of the best ongoing general report chatter of all the companions??

(when I tell you I choked on my coffee when I talked to him after confirming romance choice w/ Garrus and that 'pamphlet' and 'anaphalactic shot if ingesting-' kajsldkfjsldfjk)

Like, fuck, the fact that they actually dive into the mixed morality and horrors of the genophage, and you can confront Mordin on it, for good reason, yet he still stands his ground, until finally some bits of his loyalty mission seem to... affect him, and I'm guessing might set up things for 3 with him? Unsure, but either way, damn, the fact that they start to dig into it...

And Taliiiii my beloved forbidden alien wife TwT her loyalty mission was SO GOOD. I love how varied they all are?? Getting to defend her and discover what she'd unwittingly been a part of-!!

Zaeed is a bastard but tbh I love that he is and that he's unapologetic in him - and Kasumi omg, best thief. A heist?? Gods, yes- I love our couch lounge chats XD

Samara is..... illegally.......... she's an illegally powerful and beautiful and eloquent MILF...........................

(.... listen I'm sapphic as hell and I'm kicking my own ass for picking her up last aksjdlfksjdfl - but her loyalty mission, damn. And seeing how there's this interesting cultural subset, and the struggle with the Asari in that they unquestioningly accept/respect justicars, but also know that the impact outside their culture is a diplomacy nightmare waiting to happen-)

,.,,,,,T,,, Thane,,,,,

I am weak for morally implicated murder dads okay?? And that voice??? His mannerisms?????? How you first see him, and that prayer after assassinating her...???????? And his history/his people's history with the hanar, gods I love how messy it is, it feels so much more real!

Also Jack is a mess and I love her (and want to get her some therapy, omg), and her and Miranda nearly duking it out after you've done both their loyalty missions??? so good and makes a lot of sense-! Honestly I would love more interactions between teammates on the ship, but there's already so much the devs had to balance I can't blame 'em for minimizing, heh. But suffice to say I also love Miranda and Jacob, even if I'm softest for my alien crew XD Hell yeah Jacob, we'll get loud and spill drinks on the citadel indeed TwT

.... I could write a whole essay on how much I love Garrus oTL Perhaps because he and Tali are the throughlines from 1 on your 2 crew, I have some of the strongest feelings about them... but genuinely, he was one of my favorite companions in the first game, and how you find him as Archangel in two? Getting to help him fight his way out after he's gone nearly 48 hours straight fighting off three gangs alone, jfc. His vengeance quest and what can happen there.... That line? fuck me, that line -

It's so much easier to see the world in black and white. Grey? I don't know what to do with gray...

How DARE you come for my heart like this, devs holy shit

(also, some other choice faves so far from the series from him include We can disobey suicidal orders?? and This wasn't in my training manual... [in 1, if you have him with you @ th Thorian fight] and his whole.... pop the heat sink - in his romance ;Dc)

asdasdfksadjfkl like I said I can write an essay on him PFFF suffice to say I'm very looking forward to his romance scene and where things go in 3

But yeah gods I'm just gonna keep rambling if I'm not careful lol. Gods I don't even know what to talk about it's all so good and while I can understand people roasting the obviousness of Paragon V Renegade (v neutral) choices/alignments, I think they do a pretty damn good job in 2 of pushing it further - to the point that there were some times that I accidentally got renegade points and I wasn't that mad, haha. There's so much fun in the interactions that I just have a good time anyways~

I have so many thoughts about TIM (The Illusive Man) and Cerberus.... theories evolving galore............... and like, what the hell!! Omega 4 going to the center of the galaxy is such a cool twist, goddamn - though my heart still breaks at losing Kaiden (his line if you haven't romanced him?? about feeling like he lost a limb when he lost you??? holy shit.... but I also can't blame him for not trusting Cerberus to the point of it affecting his ability to trust Shepard... like fuck Shep go after himmmm) I'm really excited to see where that goes since he comes back in 3, and what the fuck happens with Cerberus bc while I love the fact that obviously there are a lot of people in it for the right reasons, doing good work, there are those that are doing the opposite, and I have a very bad feeling about where TIM will end up landing....

All that said though I need to do the Reaper IFF mission (where I'm lightly spoiled as to getting That Boy, but not how/what happens to make it so - just that it's apparently wise to have all your side missions done before getting him...) and the actual Omega 4 jump. So we'll see what happens and what I think about it from there heheh!

.... major kudos and genuine props if you made it here to the end, I am so sorry for not editing on condensing all this, and appreciate you so much ;w;

#night answers #night plays ME #(yes that's a purposeful pun lol)#((i sure have played myself by starting this series its so good aksdjflskjfd))

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epicsevenshitposts · 3 years ago

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hi can i request some hcs regarding what kind of bullshit garo has to go through dealing with yufine 👁👁

of course you can 👁👁

sorry this took me so long to finish um

the crushing pain of existence really do be hitting </3

also ap tests

ap tests suck

anyway

there is no way in hell yufine doesn't make terrible financial decisions i'm sorry

didn't she literally have ras and mercedes deliver something to her a good distance away from ezera or wherever she dwells so garo wouldn't find out

something among those lines? idk man

but yes

questionable money decisions

yufine seems to enjoy shiny objects and totally would bring various trinkets home

she has a possible hoarding problem with the amount of stuff she either brings home or buys because "ooh shiny"

i feel like yufine would frequent thrift stores for this reason because you can get many shiny objects on the cheaper side of things

that doesn't mean she wouldn't go to great lengths for a snazzy thing she likes though

not like committing actual financial crimes (unless the world's end pub ends up being a money laundering front) but various odd jobs and money-scrounging efforts are employed by this dragon so she gets what she wants

she probably does get some sort of allowance from garo though

how old even is yufine anyway

seems like she has the mental age of a teenager

i'll act like she is one i guess

lmao does yufine have a bedtime or at least a "please be asleep or just quiet by this time at night i'm begging you" type-thing

what kind of a parent even is garo anyway

i know nothing about that red dude

he sells information and makes drinks idk

he probably finds out about shit yufine is trying to hide from him sooner or later

usually sooner

it would probably be amusing to him though because i can't imagine yufine's cover stories being all that great

pov: you are yufine and garo is pointing out all the plot holes in the lie you are attempting to weave about the dubious location you were at to pick something up for the past like three hours

uhh

what else

does yufine go to school

is she getting an active education

smh garo educate your child

look i haven't read episode three yet so if some pertinent yufine lore is revealed there i don't know about it

doesn't yufine have this whole thing about not being able to turn into a dragon because she lost her memories

she totally talks to garo about that

i could see that dude passing on any possible info that could maybe help with that to yufine

anyway yufine just seems fairly chaotic in general lmao and i suppose garo simply has to deal with that energy every day

lol sorry this was kind of short but school is ruining my braincells and it causes me pain so oof

still, hopefully you enjoyed it? i feel like this idea would be a hell of a lot more spicy if it were in the hands of a more competent thought-producer than me lmao

as usual, leave your metaphorical yelp reviews in the replies or reblogs if you wish

#epic seven #epic7 #yufine #garo #thanks for sending this ask in! it's a very powerful topic 👁👁

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rodneymckays · 3 years ago

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stargate episodes that should have been, part 20: an alternate reality episode where cam went to atlantis and sheppard joined sg-1. in this universe cam wasn’t injured in antarctica and i think that he is the kind of guy who would go to another galaxy for fun and also because he has to do the Best thing he can possibly do and that’s going to another galaxy. sheppard for whatever reason didn’t sit in the chair but did still fly jack down to antarctica so when they’re looking for sg-1’s fourth jack is like “well there’s this guy i met who kinda reminds me of me except he likes antarctica for some reason” so he becomes sg-1’s fourth under sam’s command. i think at first that would cause issues because of his problems with following orders + sam is new to her command and feeling somewhat insecure about it BUT these issues aren’t with sheppard disobeying sam’s orders they’re just sam worrying that he will. because sheppard only disobeys orders that he sees as bad and from what i remember of s4 + his personality in general he really respects sam. anyways this is actually a 3-parter because you have the sg-1 episode where our sg-1 meets the other sg-1, the atlantis episode where our atlantis people meet the other atlantis people, and then the crossover where they all meet one another because you can’t have the sheppards and the cams not meet themselves. i have no idea where in the timeline it is beyond “not season 4” because there are inconsistencies, but whatever. it’s also very long so i am using paragraph breaks for once!! also i will be putting a 1 after the duplicates from the show universe and a 2 after the duplicates from the au for clarity. (everyone without a number is the only one of themselves present and is from the au). also i definitely got carried away and this is too much plot and not enough character interaction even though i originally thought this one up for the character interactions, oops.

EPISODE 1: SG-1. somehow, our sg-1(1) is pulled through to this other reality. something to do with ba’al messing with some ancient tech in the other reality. the sg-1(2) of that reality, led by sam2 and featuring a major sheppard2, has snuck onto the ha’tak ba’al is using as his base of operations. they run into our sg-1(1) and there’s some spider-man pointing meme and then sam1 and sam2 start discussing how this could have happened while the valas compliment each other’s hair and cam1 and sheppard2 go “wait but you’re supposed to be in atlantis” “no, YOU’RE supposed to be in atlantis.” eventually we find out that ba’al is using ancient tech to develop a hyperdrive capable of traveling between galaxies, which the goa’uld don’t have. his test destination is the pegasus galaxy because he figures that if it works for one jump but then fails, then he can just turn up at atlantis and ask the tau’ri for help again after threatening them lightly to save face. obviously the humans don’t want ba’al going to pegasus, because we like our villains to stay confined to just one galaxy, and also if his hyperdrive works then he could destroy atlantis or ally himself with the wraith or be defeated by the wraith and have his ship captured and now the wraith have an intergalactic hyperdrive or—well, there’s lots of ways it could go wrong, and sg-1(1) gets the point that they need to help sg-1(2) stop ba’al. they spend much of the episode tracking ba’al and sneaking around the ship, until they finally corner ba’al in the engine room and teal’c2 shoots him. unfortunately, they enter hyperspace almost immediately after this, and are captured by… another ba’al. END.

EPISODE 2: ATLANTIS. somehow, our atlantis team1 is pulled through to this other reality. something to do with mckay2 and zelenka messing with some ancient tech in the other reality. our atlantis team1 is quickly locked in interrogation rooms because who are they and why is major sheppard with them instead of colonel mitchell? this tips off mckay1 to the fact that they’re now in an alternate reality. fortunately mckay2 and zelenka have already reached this conclusion and they’re let out of the interrogation rooms just in time for news to reach atlantis that a ha’tak has arrived in pegasus. (and also before ronon1 and ronon2 start fighting instead of just glaring menacingly at one another, because who thought it was a good idea to have ronon2 interrogate ronon1. he didn’t even ask any questions.) alternate weir decides to send the atlantis team2 in to investigate but mckay2 is like “i’ll need someone to help me with the goa’uld tech, we’ll take zelenka” but zelenka is immediately like “no?? there’s another you here. take him. i don’t like leaving the city” so it’s decided that both mckays will go, and you can’t send mckay1 without the rest of his team so EVERYONE is going. they take two jumpers because mitchell2 and sheppard1 both want to fly the jumper. when they arrive through the space gate that the ha’tak is near, they see a badly damaged wraith hive with no life signs. the ha’tak has also taken some damage, but much less, and they’re able to fly through a hole in the hull to board. they detect minimal life signs: two on the bridge, eleven in the cells, and a few others scattered around that must be ba’al’s jaffa. the group decides to split up; they toss a coin and mitchell’s team2 goes to the bridge while sheppard’s team1 goes to the cells. when sheppard’s team1 arrives at the cells, they find them unguarded but locked. mckay1 cracks the lock and we see the cell doors slide open. cut to the bridge. when mitchell’s team2 arrives, they see one of the dots on the life signs detector begin to fade. mckay2 gets the door open just in time to see ba’al collapse to the floor, having been fed on by a wraith. END.

EPISODE 3: CROSSOVER. what the hell, ba’al is in a wraith now. (i’ve always wondered about what would happen if the goa’uld met the wraith; would they fight and if so who would win? or would a goa’uld take a wraith as a host? is that even possible? i say yes because it’s Fun.) the symbiote entered the wraith and then promptly fed on his former host because he was hungry. this is obviously Terrible News because the wraith are bad enough but tbh they’re not very smart. ba’al is. mitchell’s atlantis team2 all point their weapons at him and radio sheppard’s atlantis team1 to let them know there’s now a goa’uld with a wraith host. sheppard1 responds and says “ok, we’ll we’ve got two sg-1s here. and also todd” to which mitchell2 replies “who the hell is todd?” (“pale skin, long hair, likes to suck your soul out with his hand but makes it weird by returning your soul ten minutes later?” “oh you mean casper.” “what the hell kind of a name is casper?” “what the hell kind of a name is todd?!”) we find out that “casper”, who is of course alternate todd but was named casper by mitchell2, was on the hive ba’al disabled. he and one other wraith were taken aboard the ha’tak, and he was put in the cell for later in case the first implantation of a wraith didn’t work. he’s willing to help everyone defeat wraith ba’al, because goa’ulds taking wraith as hosts is bad for the wraith too. so they do some stuff, and with much difficulty, kill wraith ba’al. it’s harder than killing a normal wraith because he has the goa’uld regenerative ability, and also he keeps feeding on his jaffa to recover after being shot. eventually they manage to trick him into a set of rings and space him. then they have to decide what to do with the ha’tak. casper wants it for himself because of the intergalactic hyperdrive and turns on them. they manage to activate the self destruct and flee back to the jumpers. they believe that casper is destroyed in the self destruct, but he survives somehow. the rest of the episode is the sams, mckays, and zelenka trying to figure out how to send sg-1(1) and the atlantis team1 home. we also get a few character moments between everyone and their counterparts: cam2 and both sheppards discuss puddlejumpers while cam1 is sad because he doesn’t have the gene and never received gene therapy so he can’t fly a puddlejumper. they break into medical to convince beckett to give cam1 the gene therapy; they’re pretty sure it’ll work on him since it worked on cam2. it does, and the cams and the sheppards immediately have a race to the mainland and back. (the sheppards win, but it’s close, and the cams try to blame it on the fact that cam1 has never flown a jumper before while everyone else has.) the daniels go to the library together and share their knowledge about the ancients and the ori; mostly they know the same stuff but they do both learn a few new things. the ronons fight one another. it’s a draw. the teylas and the teal’cs watch the ronons fight, and then meditate. the valas flit between each of the groups and compare their versions of everyone. vala1 ends up in weir’s office and bugs her with a bunch of questions until weir actually puts down her work and just Hangs Out. vala2 ends up with the cams and the sheppards because she’s absolutely best buds with sheppard2 and desperately wants to meet sheppard1. anyways after everyone hangs out for awhile they go home and it’s a very :) ending, which is what they need after All That.

i like this character swap idea a lot because after watching the pegasus project i was kinda chomping at the bit for more character interaction between sheppard and the rest of sg-1. particularly vala. more after the cut cause i wanna yell about all the other stuff i love about this!!

i also like the idea of sheppard not being in the team leader position. it makes me wonder what him following orders offworld, particularly sam’s, would look like. i don’t remember him and sam butting heads over command decisions in quite the same way him and elizabeth did at the start (sheppard wanting to go go go, make slapdash decisions, usually in an effort to help people, altho sometimes misguided, particularly in hot zone, vs elizabeth who was often looking towards a less militaristic approach, i.e not trading explosives to the genii, not torturing a POW etc. and who took her time making decisions). but then again, both sam and john are military. so, it’d be interesting to see how sam manages him along with the rest of the team. also, since hes not in a leadership position (no ones counting on him to keep the team together), would he be even more gungho about the self-sacrifice play? or just the same as ever? anyway, enough about john (once i start, i can’t stop, it seems), let’s get into the episodes!!

Episode 1:

“if it works for one jump but then fails, then he can just turn up at atlantis and ask the tau’ri for help again after threatening them lightly to save face.” LMAO truly ba’al’s modus operandi.

and the wraith potentially stealing hyperdrive technology is DEFINITELY something sg teams of all universes and galaxies should team up to put a stop to. a whole new galaxy to feed on?? not to mention earth??? NOT GREAT. the situation definitely calls for earth’s mightiest heroes squared.

also i appreciate a good sneak on an alien ship. especially times 2. and who would partner with who?? so many fun character combos!

Episode 2:

LMFAO OKAY. ronon vs ronon is such a ronon thing that i laughed out loud. both of them would definitely wanna know which one was tougher. also. also. i would love for zelenka and mckay1 to have a science twin moment and mckay2 to get all proprietary and be like “get ur own!”

i can’t imagine rodney would get along all that well with himself so its a good thing the rest of the teams will be there to run interference. and be separated on the ride there bahaha. cam and sheppard would totally fight over who gets to fly the cool spaceship (the teylas look at each other with raised eyebrows of sympathy and respect. both teams require them to pull on their reserves of infinite patience).

OOOO and ending on a CLIFFHANGER and INTRIGUE, QUICKLY, to the next episode!

Episode 3:

u kno, i was thinking earlier, after reading the first episode, what would an interaction between goa’uld and wraith look like? my immediate thought was, they are either gonna join forces to crush the stupid humans or fight because the goa’uld kinda need those humans for indentured servitude and, u kno, living. or, u kno, they would fight just because their ginormous egos clashed. but NEVER did the thought occur to me that a goa’uld might take a wraith as its host for its superior genetic makeup over humans (super strength, jedi mind tricks, telepathy etc.) and this is why ur brain is amazing. and a smart, conniving creature in control of a wraith body…spells trouble. and i didn’t even consider the double healing factor which would make any wraith on par with an uber wraith (that i dont remember ever seeing after the defiant one lol).

also cam naming his todd casper means everything to me. his ability to drop movie/pop culture references no one gets/appreciates is extremely endearing.

another amazing thing about this; sam actually gets to science with mckay and zelenka FOR ONCE. i’m really sad we were deprived this in season 4, like i get sam was the leader of the expedition in that season, and it wasn’t her job to be doing science/where is the time, but u can’t take the science out of the girl, no sir. i just wanted the beautiful mind children to be techno babbling it up, all with a begrudging respect for one another, as everyone stares in awe and confusion.

and cam gets to fly cool spaceships!!!! for leisure! with no one threatening his life! he did not get to do enough flying imo. and the teyla’s definitely deserve meditation time after dealing with double of their rambunctious team. and YES elizabeth deserves to have fUN. vala is the best person to help her with that. and vala and sheppard!!!! being buds!!! ALL I HAVE EVERY WANTED FROM STARGATE! what a fantastic ending to a wonderful series of episodes.

#dunno why i want them to hang out so badly?#maybe its because we never really saw it on the show?#because i think they would really hit it off?#or maybe its all of auburn’s fic imprinting on my brain in the most wonderful way (she always wrote their interactions so lovely).#anyway what an awesome series of episodes!!#this is everything i love about science fiction #it has no limitations #except the ones in our own imagination #the alternate universes #character interactions #use of aliens #absolutely inspired #thanks so much for this one #sg1 #sga #asks

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razorblade180 · 4 years ago

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Overall thoughts on V8? Assuming you didn't answer this already.

I meant to do a volume wrap up review but I got incredibly busy and it fell to the waste side. The thing about me judging RWBY I have to come at it from two angles or I won’t feel like I judged it appropriately. There’s the casual, first time seeing the episodes and seeing this through the lens as a casual watcher who probably only sees the episodes once or twice. But then there’s the other side to that coin. I review these episodes, write aus, theorize, check extended lore, listen to the music, etc; that means I have to go back and watch episodes several times for any given reason and that’s when you start noticing the holes or picking up on things you didn’t before.

As a casual watcher, I’d give this an 8/10. There’s plenty of moments where characters do things that got me excited and plot points I wanted explored. This volume actually gave a decent amount of things I wanted for quite some time and some things I didn’t know I needed. Certainly there are things I don’t like in this but I’m open and curious to see where RT takes their storie because it’s their story.

Okay, now as a someone who’s had to deep dive and take a step back multiple times for a variety of reasons. 6.5/10 maybe a 7/10 if I’m being generous. A lot of my problems with this volume are problems that aren’t new to RWBY and that’s just how surface layer portions of arcs are and how a variety of choices/bonds don’t exactly make sense with what we were previously shown, or they only make sense because the writers don’t want introduce other complexities even though they should be there realistically. I’ll give a couple examples of these and yes, I’m aware what I say doesn’t bother everyone but it bothers me.

Qrow was never angry at or brought up Robyn being the reason their airship crashed in the first place because she started the fight; which aids in Clover dying.

Emerald follows Cinder, not Salem. Even if Cinder is working under Salem, why would Emerald be so willingly to complete shift to the side that actively goes against Cinder? There’s been no grand revelation to make Emerald believe Cinder doesn’t give a damn about her. Leaving made sense because she was about to get tortured. Going full turncoat right now doesn’t. No change happened. Emerald always hated being near Salem but adored Cinder no matter the crimes and the show hasn’t done anything to switch that view point.

I’m happy Whitley and Weiss had a touching sibling moment that implies they’re okay and making/made up, but there was never a conversation about the actual problem and thoughts that had them at odds in the first place. Weiss saving his and Willow’s life shouldn’t be the thing that smooths things over. It would’ve been terrible if Weiss do something to save their life. Whitley helping Penny is okay I guess because he really had no reason to contribute but did anyways. Even so, a person doing a morally correct thing doesn’t automatically warrant the conflict between him and Weiss’s resolved.

We got Cinder’s backstory; it didn’t tell us anything about how she eventually came into contact with Salem. Honestly her back story felt more in line of her main goal through the series was an absolute freedom by the means of breaking down the systems that trapped and didn’t give a damn, rather than her quest for power. Yes you can argue gaining power means it’s easier to maintain her freedom to do whatever she wants but I personally think that’s a little off the mark when you gave her a story that involves her trapped by rules and time rather than being too physically weak to gain freedom.

This show has built up that the Schnee family has suffered various types of abuse because of Jacques and uses Weiss as a medium to build towards breaking free from that. Not just overcoming but confronting the abuse by cementing it’s place below you. We don’t really get that. There will never be a moment where the siblings and mother truly get to break out of Jacques grasps emotionally and then put him in his place because he’s dead! Yeah they never have to worry about him again but even last volume they showed Winter still having turmoil and being able to get strung along by him. We don’t even really know how Whitley perceived his father. It feels so lackluster. Then they care to mention how it’s Weiss’s idea to save him like it’s an empowering moment when in actuality, it would be against her character, values of a huntress, and morality to let a person die in cell when you’re the reason they’re in a cell! Letting him die in there would just terrible. I don’t even know why he wasn’t let out in that scene! He’s a coward! He’d follow their orders to save his skin. All he has to do is shut up and walk through a portal.

Ironwood and Oscar both knew they could remove that staff to use it and Atlas wouldn’t drop immediately. Why did nobody have any kind of compromise with one another since there’s nothing stopping them from using the staff for something and then putting it back? They had this morally gray thing going on which I liked but then they decided to make Ironwood go full evil. I’ve never had to say this before but the song he got in V7 and the character they made him be in V8 just don’t connect. I got upset listening to that song recently because I liked that Ironwood.

Clover’s importance. RT tried making a character who had no more than 9 minutes in the series and one meaningful line of dialogue into the cornerstone of a side plot. Clover is such a nothing character. Vine did more than Clover. They try to make him have such a profound impact to the people around him but we never see him bond with his team; Harriet specifically. We get one scene of Clover telling Qrow the kids are fortunate to have Qrow even if he doesn’t think so. First, I doubt Clover knows Qrow decided to get drunk in a ghost town and the kids nearly died and cellar while he did it so that compliment doesn’t hold much weight for me. Second, We see nothing meaningful between the two. V7 has a time skip and just expects viewers to be on board with Clover being this influential change on Qrow without showing anything outside of a witty remark and Clover flexing his semblance. I would’ve bought it more of Qrow almost relapsed and Clover stopped him then had a real meaningful conversation.

Ruby goes against Ironwood only to then want to do a plan that’s aligned to longer term thinking than even his, talks about how everyone should be working together, but then adds a part in her video to actively antagonize and vilify Ironwood. Afterwards, she wonders where everything went wrong and doesn’t think of a plan or do anything to immediately help either kingdom until the final hour between the ultimatum being made, to everything getting destroyed. The inciting incident was disagreeing Mantle should be left in favor of Atlas but the main character didn’t do anything to help Mantle 90% of the season and hindered Atlas’s safety up until the final plan.

Yang is used to be the devil’s advocate in a bunch of situations, but she’s wrong most of the time or her lines just don’t make any sense. They weren’t doing just fine before Atlas. They almost died every step of the way. The team didn’t beat a Leviathan; silver eyes and a robot take credit for that. Why would Blake think less of Yang for wanting to go save people immediately? Blake was never mad at anyone to begin with. Yang consistently calls out people for following orders as if it’s objectively wrong, but is never called out on the fact she hasn’t followed anybody’s orders but her own and added discourse to every situation. I get RT is making her ask questions because that’s what Raven told her to do, but all she’s really doing is picking fights and disobeying every order. Yang states to Ruby they accomplished more than they expected. That’s false, getting Oscar back is correcting a mistake caused by her own plan that she didn’t even complete.

It took 6 volumes before Yang had anything to do with the Summer Rose subplot again and 7 volumes before her and Ruby had a sister to sister conversations; 5 if you wanna count Yang telling Ruby to leave at the end of volume three. The reason I bring this up is because in V8 , they treat their argument as if it’s a big deal but then have every character say it wasn’t that big a deal; but then have two circle back to that conversation later after having neither character discuss to anybody that the argument actually did weigh on them. Yang doesn’t think about Ruby until she sees her again and the closest we get with Ruby is Blake reassuring her that people need her and how Blake admires her. I like that scene but it’s not the same as Ruby actually airing out the specific point that Yang said something that Ruby found hurtful. Vol8 in general people trying to comfort others but nobody ever actually addresses what made them uncomfortable to start with. Except Ren.

This one is a nitpicking but I’ll say it anyways. Penny getting hacked only served as a purpose to go to the vault, a thing Ironwood already wanted them to do. Nobody got her because she was hacked. You can’t even say her getting hacked is the leading factor to her actually dying because Penny became a vulnerable human afterwards that can’t be rebuilt. Pietro was gone, and already stated last volume he doesn’t have the aura to build Penny again. If she died as a robot then it’s still permanent death. No core, no Pietro, and no aura; hacking her was just to create a Hound reveal situation and make them go to the vault on a different set of terms. I’m not exactly upset with this, but I don’t understand why the extra steps. The Hound was hunting her anyways. I would’ve brought some kind of value if she hurt a friend and it caused them to potentially hinder the plan later on or remove them entirely. Penny could’ve rekt Yang and it only adds value to Yang getting one shot later. I don’t know. I’m rambling.

I think I’ve wasted enough people’s time. Honestly, I do like this volume. I’ve enjoyed a bunch of it. But there’s things that legitimately make me think it’s not as good others and makes V7 even worse.

#rwby #rwby volume 8 #ask me stuff

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inevitably-johnlocked · 5 years ago

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Weird q..but i really dont understand why most fans hate season 4, especially the last episode. Why? I think it gave us a deeper look on both sherlock and mycroft! I felt it tells a lot about mycroft how he had to step in and take control of things ever since he was a kid himself. Also he is not a robot or a killer. Also redbeard thing. It was an appropriate deep psychological trauma (cause most shows usually disappoint in that area). I am not trying to impose my opinion. Just want to understand

Hey Nonny!

It’s all good, and I totally respect your opinion and how you enjoyed S4! It’s totally okay! I know that there are quite a few who got a lot of of S4, and who genuinely enjoyed it.

Sadly, I am not one of those people, and I’ll try to be as diplomatic a possible in my response, but PLEASE know that I don’t think you’re “terrible” or “stupid” for liking S4 because I DO get passionate sometimes in my responses, and I’m just merely speaking as someone who studied the series very closely for quite a long time before S4 aired, and as someone who knows Day-One-ers (ie., people who watched Sherlock on its day one airdate) who also are a large majority of the people who did not like S4. This is just me simply stating why I didn’t like it, but it’s different for everyone.

Stating what I DO like: The acting and cinematography of the first two episodes were brilliant for what they had to work with, and I’ve never faulted any of the actors for the flaws of S4. And for TFP, they did the best with what they had to work with.

That’s… pretty much all I really liked about S4.

Now, here’s my problems with S4:

Nothing made a LICK of sense to the narrative that they were telling in Seasons prior.

This series was always based a bit in reality, and suddenly everything became comic-book rules: X-Men villains, shitty “redemption” arc, destroying favourite characters just for drama, ludicrous physics, explosions that only destroyed one small room in an apt where in previous episodes one explosion destroyed an entire block, etc.

Sherlock was OOC.

Mary was being built up to be a fantastic villain? Ah, nope, here’s the lacklustre twist where tee hee Mary’s just an assassin with a heart of gold that still emotionally abuses Sherlock and John and just won’t fucking stay dead.

And speaking of this, the DVD’s make NO LOGICAL SENSE unless she was planning to kill herself

AND she tries to make her death equatable to Sherlock’s??

Everyone was RIDICULOUSLY out of character in TFP, I’m so sorry: Mycroft is a bumbling coward for the most part, Sherlock disregards John when he gives the Vatican Cameos warning, the Holmes Parents are assholes because Mycroft COULDN’T SOLVE A PROBLEM WHEN HE WAS 12?? ARE YOU SERIOUS???? And that creepy Moriarty / Eurus thing, and LITERALLY they’re implying that EVERYTHING HAPPENED BECAUSE EURUS DIDN’T GET A HUG. Like, I’m so sorry, but that’s lazy writing.

And don’t even get me started on the ridiculousness of the entire character of Eurus. She LITERALLY had X-Men powers, and like… just nothing made sense. Her involvement in the entirety of S4 MADE NO SENSE. Why go back to prison if you can get out?? WHAT IS THE POINT?? AND I repeat: She did all this because she didn’t get a hug. Yes. I’m oversimplifying, but at the base level, that’s what it was, because she wanted Sherlock’s attention. Welcome to the club, kid, stand in line, everyone on the SHOW wants his attention.

The ENTIRE plot of the first 2 seasons got wiped out all because it wasn’t Moriarty who was interested in Sherlock, but Eurus?? What… What about Carl Powers?? Like…. the ENTIRETY of season one and TGG makes no sense now, because of that one 5 minute scene where Eurus “enlists” Moriarty. I… ugh.

The SUDDEN tonal switch from kind-of Sherlock to James Bond, for some fucking reason.

And on that note, how terribly lazy and cheap TFP looks in comparison to the other two episodes. The whole episode looks like it was filmed in a small house with 4 identical rooms.

EVERYTHING that was etablished in 2 episodes prior were COMPLETELY forgotten when Mary was “shot”.

The complete character assassination of one loyal blogger John H Watson in favour of Mary for some fucked up reason, even though AT HIS OWN WEDDING HE COULDN’T STAND BEING AROUND MARY. I’m sorry, but I don’t believe for one damned second that John would EVER forgive Mary for murdering his best friend after seeing what it did to him. That’s not love from her, and that’s NOT John’s character EVER in the ENTIRETY of the series.

And speaking of character assassinations, Molly’s character being devolved to S1E1 Molly, where instead of giving her agency like they were doing with her the ENTIRE series, so much so that Sherlock picked up on her dominance enough to give her a big role in his mind palace in HLV and TAB, only to make her a sad little self-insert Mary Sue pining for the main character, and in turn made Sherlock a TERRIBLE human being for MAKING HER say what she did. It’s gross.

AND speaking of Molly’s character, they’ve been setting up Mollstrade since as early as ASiB, but I guess that plot line got shafted. Look I LOVE Hopkins, and I am ANGRY they didn’t give her more than 3 fucking lines in the entirety of ONE episode after HEAVILY promoting her actress and character, but they essentially reduced her to a piece of ass for Lestrade to chase. AND THAT’S NOT HIS CHARACTER EITHER. EW GROSS.

The constant plot holes being gaped wide open, and the Chekov’s gun moments where they bring up shit but do nothing with it!!

TD-12? Nope, just a lame reference to a story we like.

John got shot at the end of TLD with a VERY REAL FUCKING GUN? Nope, it was a dart gun.

John not suddenly knowing how to be a doctor.

The TGG one I mentioned up above.

What was in the letter? And who was Anyone??

Moriarty essentially being erased as anything other than a hired thug and had no part whatsoever in Sherlock’s history.

Eurus… Just all of her character is asinine.

Everyone in T6T suddenly not knowing John’s the blogger, which is in direct contradiction to literally the entire series.

The AGRA plotline was ridiculous, in the end.

Baby? What baby? It was only there when convenient.

They dropped whatever plotline they were going to do for Mycroft: He was being set up as either dying, or the villain.

Redbeard. I’m sorry, I disagree with you on that. Mofftiss is trying to tell me that a little boy fell down a well and went missing, and that WASN’T the first place searchers / the police wouldn’t have looked? Sorry, no. And then. AND THEN his parents just… go along with this thing where Sherlock shuts down and they DON’T get him therapy? Yes, I agree the mind is a funny thing, and we can be traumatised into forgetting or dissociating from traumatic events. I GET IT. But… like I don’t believe the Holmes are so heartless as to just never grieve or have memories around about their supposedly dead daughter. It’s another OCC thing for me.

John’s cheating.

Disappearing and reappearing characters, like this scene, and the entirety of the aquarium scene.

Mary and John being terrible parents

OH GOD THIS FUCKING SCENE. That bomb SHOULD HAVE DESTROYED THE ENTIRE BUILDING.

What… who was this girl on the plane? What? Like I know WHO, but if she’s supposed to be Eurus talking to Sherlock, why don’t we see Eurus… talking to Sherlock? I … Ugh.

NORBURY.

The glass SUPER SECRET GOVERNMENT ROOM THAT NO ONE SHOULD SEE INTO in T6T.

Sloppy camera work that some believe was intentional, but if it wasn’t, jesus c’mon.

The RIDICULOUS amount of 4th Wall Breaking. Like… even the actors didn’t give a shit.

Essentially, everything on this list here and in this blog tag here.

And everything mentioned on these three posts:

T6T: 10 Revealing Things That Haunt You Late at Night

TLD: 10 Revealing Things That Haunt You Late at Night

TFP: 10 Revealing Things That Haunt You Late at Night

There’s SO much more I can go into, but please go through my “something’s fucky” tag in that last link.

Notice how probably 90% of that has NOTHING to do with “johnlock not becoming canon” because the Johnlockers get MONSTROUS accusations as to THAT being why we didn’t like S4, even though it was, like critically panned by the GENERAL AUDIENCE who have NO investment in the series other than “I liked it in the past”.

Two of my fave YouTubers have interesting (not perfect, but still good) takes coming at the series as casual viewers:

‘The Day Sherlock Died’ by The Closer Look

‘Sherlock is Garbage, and Here’s Why’ by hbomberguy

So it’s NOT just Johnlockers. I’ve talked to Sher1011ies at 221B con who didn’t like S4 either, because most of them realized how shitty Molly was treated in the last episode. So yeah, a big middle finger to those who think I dislike S4 because of “no Johnlock”. No, I disliked it because I need my stories to make logical narrative sense. I disliked it because I love John and they ruined his character all for the sake of drama and because Moffat has a “hurting Ben” kink. I disliked it because Mary should NOT have been “redeemed” because she was an abuser. I disliked it because Moriarty was turned into a cartoon villain, even though he was already overused in the series. I disliked it because the core of the show – the FRIENDSHIP of Sherlock and John, and their solving mysteries together – did not exist at all. I disliked it because John got sidelined. I disliked it because TFP was a ridiculous episode that, if you replace ANY of the characters, it wouldn’t make a difference, because it didn’t feel like an episode of Sherlock. I disliked it because everyone was OOC.

Anyway. Sorry. One too many accusations my way over the past 1100+ days LOL.

As for your assessment of TFP, I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you. There was no growth and actually it implies something far more sinister: That the Holmes are and were terrible parents that gave no shits about their daughter, their traumatized son, and expected their eldest to essentially be a parent. It implies that Mycroft, at 12 years old, orchestrated the ENTIRE Sherrinford thing… Look I can suspend my disbelief, but there’s limits, and this is one of them. A LITERAL CHILD. Perhaps Uncle Rudy had a hand in it somehow, but then why not shit on Uncle Rudy? Why is Mycroft blamed for it all?

Look, I don’t doubt Sherlock had a traumatic experience regarding “Redbeard”. But then why play into the fact that he was a dog? Why bring another character into the series just to have a gotcha moment? Because Mofftiss wanted a “Shyamalan twist”, that’s why. They threw EVERYTHING away for a twist ending either because they GENUINELY thought it was good, or they got tired of doing Sherlock. ALL of TFP is LITERALLY a really bad plot twist because reasons. TFP makes no sense to the ENTIRE narrative structure of the previous 12 episodes. It erased EVERYTHING from the previous episodes, and coated it with a gross closing by a character no one wanted in the series, and then tried to convince us that it’s a new beginning – “a journey they had to go through” – but it SOLVED NOTHING.

Anyway. I have big feels about S4, and the only way I can enjoy it is to watch it subtextually, but even then, I cannot sit through TFP without cringing.

That said, Lovelies, please do not attack Nonny for enjoying S4! I know you guys won’t, but Nonny came out with an olive branch and they just want to understand why the fandom is passionate about S4′s… whatever it was. We can have a civil discussion about it, and point out – without attacking – why S4 is universally panned. It’s okay to like things no one else does, and Nonny was respectful to me in this ask!

So with that, feel free, lovelies, to express why YOU didn’t enjoy the series, or why you did! I’m interested in both “sides” / pov’s whatever :)

#steph replies #long post #sherlock s4 #s4 shitposting #mofftiss #something's fucky #the mary problem #my thoughts #my meta #shitposting steph #sorry gang if you like the season #it's easier for me to enjoy it if i tinhat

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letteredlettered · 4 years ago

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hi! ive been following your writing for a few years now and i drop by periodically to check if you have anything new posted, and im really surprised that you seem to be enjoying the untamed? im curious what you think about the show - its story and characters, the acting, the production, etc. idk if you know, but the untamed is the most successful example of a current trend in chinese entertainment, where popular online novels centered around a gay romance is adapted into a 'safe' drama.

continued:

due to the many explicit and implicit restrictions imposed on creative media in china, many crucial plot points have to be changed (often badly) or removed, including the nature of the relationship between the main characters. the untamed is considered the most loyal adaptation so far, but like all other works in the genre, it received criticism for weak acting and queerbaiting. that's why im really curious about what you think of the show as it is, as itself, free from its context.

if you're interested, you could also check out guardian! it features much better performance and chemistry by the leads imo, but the story was heavily botched bc the original incorporates and reinvents a lot of classic chinese folklore beautifully and stuff like that is considered disrespectful and not-pc. i think it's really sad how so many great pieces of writing with complex world-building and plotlines are simplified into... idek what to call them, but just, less than what they are.

im sorry this turned into a rant. as a mainland chinese person with oh so many frustrations about our current society, it's hard to comprehensively describe my feelings about the untamed's popularity. it's the first mainland chinese show/movie to gain this much organic interest abroad so i should be glad? but, but. anyway, yes, im sorry.

There’s no need to apologize for ranting, but I admit to some confusion as to whether you want your question addressed or the rant. Because I’m me and tend to be thorough, I’ll address everything, in reverse order.

First of all, I’m sorry that this show is sad to you. I’m sorry that the popularity of it is difficult. I’m also deeply sympathetic to your frustrations about your society, as I too am deeply frustrated by my own.

Secondly, yes, I’m aware of the context of The Untamed. I’m aware that the book it’s based on is a BL novel, and that, in order to align with Chinese politics, overt queerness was erased from the adaptation. I’m aware of the censure laws of gay media in China. I’m also aware that some aspects of necromancy and morality were adjusted to make the show more palatable for general audiences, but I’m fuzzier on those details. Lastly, I’m aware that the popularity of the show calls attention to certain things, such as fanfic, and that attention results in more censorship,

The fact of this erasure and this censure provokes a lot of questions: by consuming this product, which contains erasure and censure, do we engage in the erasure and censure? By posting gifs and writing fanfic and talking about this product, do we increase its popularity, thereby encouraging additional erasure and censure? By increasing the popularity of this product, do we diminish the popularity of the original gay morally gray canon, thereby decreasing representation? Do we discourage other authors in China from writing explicitly gay morally gray material? In short, are we allowed to enjoy this media?

I don’t know the answer to these questions. However, I do know that boycott is a very effective tool when it can inflict economic pain on the producer, or when it can exert pressure on an entity to change. That said, I feel like a lot of the calls to boycott certain media these days are a lot like telling people to stop driving their cars to stop climate change: it’s suggesting that individuals can solve the problem, which presupposes individuals are the problem, and therefore fails to address the scope of the problem, or present the possibility of a real solution. Not watching The Untamed isn’t going to change laws about portrayals of homosexuality onscreen in China, partly because the laws in China are a much bigger problem.

The other part of it is that The Untamed is coded queer, so if you run a successful boycott against it, you end up with . . . less queer TV. I know a whole lot less about China than I do about the Hays Code, but if you had told gay people during the Golden Age of Hollywood that they couldn’t enjoy movies that were coded queer because they weren’t explicitly queer, they’d have said you were crazy. In fact, many people will tell you that media that was coded queer was a big reason we got more explicit queer stuff later. And as I’m sure you’re aware, the US is still fighting that battle . . . partly because it wants to sell movies to China.

So then there’s a question about whether me, an American in the US, liking something coded queer from China but not explicitly queer--does that encourage Chinese censorship? Should I only support texts that are explicitly queer? But the answer is the same--it’s not addressing the scope of the problem, and by supporting texts that are coded queer, you could be paving the way in the future for something brighter.

But you weren’t talking about boycott! You were talking about your discomfort with the popularity with this show, which I accept. I understand feeling uncomfortable. I can only hope it makes you a bit more comfortable to know that plenty of fans are deeply aware of the context and do wrestle with the question of what liking this show means in the context of a society that would never allow aspects of the original to be portrayed onscreen.

Thirdly, I’m not against trying Guardian at some point, but by comparing the acting and chemistry of the leads to The Untamed, I feel like you prove our tastes are very different in these regards. I love the acting of the leads in The Untamed; I found their chemistry off the charts. It’s okay you don’t feel the same.

Lastly, you asked my opinion of The Untamed: its story and characters, the acting, the production, sans context of the canon upon which its based and censorship laws in China.

a. I love the overall story, but the plot has deep plot holes. Quite a few segments do not actually make sense to me, because the plot is so haywire. However, I’ve never cared that much about plot, except when it gets in the way of characters and themes, and for the most part, this plot serves its characters and themes, except when the parts they leave out are so confusing that I cannot follow the story. As for the story, it feels like it’s built for me, because ultimately it’s about moral decisions and how to make them; it’s about guilt and paying for mistakes; it’s about learning, changing your mind, and remaking yourself. Really, I’m not sure there are many stories I love more--except they killed my favorite character, and I almost quit. So, that certainly put a damper on things.

b. I love the characters most of all, although the villains are really two-dimensional. However, large parts of the plot are not Hero vs Villain, they’re Hero vs Society, and then some Hero vs Himself in a way that suggests the Hero is no longer a hero. I could talk about the characters forever, but suffice it to say I think they’re really strong. Also, the relationships are really exquisite, particularly when it comes to family dynamics. Unfortunately, they killed my favorite character off. Also unfortunately, there are six women in this show, only two of them are main characters, and every single one of them dies. It disgusts me.

c. I think the two leads are exceptional, in particular Xiao Zhan . . . when he’s not being too broad, which he is quite a bit. However, I do wonder how much of this is direction and production style, because in many instances, he’s quite subtle, and the choices he makes are astounding. Then there are times where it’s like they needed more footage, or wanted to drive home a point, and he turns on the extra, and it’s awful. It could just be him, but I actually feel it’s the case with most of the actors, which does make me think it’s a directing issue. Meng Ziyi never really has that problem though, because she is the most perfect of all. But then take He Peng, who I actually thought could be incredible, but every scene was just SO BROAD that I began to feel sorry for the poor dude having to act that part. But there is nothing to be said for Wang Zhuo Cheng, who really is just terrible, which is sad, because it’s a great part.

d. Production-wise, it’s really hit and miss. So much of the locations are truly beautiful. A lot of the costumes are too, unless the shot is too close. I actually don’t mind the wigs; I love the long hair. The CGI is terrible. And then while a lot of the shots are beautiful, some of them are awkward, and the pacing is really difficult, imo. It really seems like they wanted to drag it out, and there are so, so many scenes where I’m sort of embarrassed that we’re in the same scene or that we’re still looking at someone’s face, or that everyone is just standing there waiting for the shot to finally end.

I will say that film is a language that does differ from culture to culture. It could be that both the broadness of the acting and the awkwardness of the editing are my cultural lens based on American and a lot of western film. When I watched older Hollywood films, the acting is a lot more broad and maybe a little less “true” feeling, but I understand that it’s not the case everyone in the past was a bad actor. It was just a different style, so I’m not sure I’m equipped with the cultural knowledge of Chinese acting, cinematography, and editing to be able to really judge the value of these things.

I do know how I feel, which is that the editing is the biggest hurdle for me while watching the show. However, I feel that the beauty of it makes up for a lot, and the strength of the characters and themes really carries it.

I hope I addressed your points adequately, and I wish you well.

#Anonymous #the untamed #china

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catscraftsandcommentary · 4 years ago

Text

thoughts on tiny!Steve/werewolf!Bucky shrunkyclunky AU

Because I’m too fucking lazy to actually type it into a proper fic and edit it and do all the fancy-ness that it would take to, y’know, make it a properly written story.

Vaguely fantasy/colonial setting, somewhere with lots of forests. Steve lives in a small town called - of course - Brooklyn, with best friend Peggy (local beauty and hell on heels.) Also with various non-friends Rumlow (sheriff), Rumlow’s minions, Alexander Pierce (mayor/governor of the area), and various townsfolk. Who often don’t like Steve because he’s constantly poor, constantly sick, constantly fighting and/or preaching about how their normal behavior is terrible.

Peggy thinks he’s great. Rumlow, who wants Peggy, despises him.

So at some point, Steve does something to piss Rumlow off more than usual. For a while, I thought about “stopping Rumlow when he won’t take ‘no’ from a girl at the local tavern and Steve reads him the riot act/starts a fight with him (these are pretty much the same thing, lbr.) BUT, sudden better idea, Rumlow comes up with some new, ridiculous plot to get Peggy to change her mind about him (never gonna happen, bro), but Steve ruins it somehow.

Like Rumlow commissions something for Peggy (clothing? art? jewelry?), but then extorts the artist to get out of paying, and Steve, who is PISSED, tells Peggy, who refuses the gift very publicly AND calls Rumlow a thief, extortionist, etc.

Hell. On. Heels.

So Rumlow immediately blames all his problems on Steve, and sentences him to banishment, permanent, on penalty of death. If he’s not out of town by sunrise, Rumlow will be glad to skip the wait.

Except oh yeah, Rumlow and the bros are going hunting tomorrow, leaving at dawn, so they’ll have to check in that Steve’s gone - and that Peggy isn’t hiding him - before dawn, so, y’know, he might want to get moving.

Cutscene to Peggy’s house, where she’s trying to talk Steve out of a suicidal second confrontation with Rumlow, or a more political confrontation through Pierce (who did, after all, appoint the bastard), or whatever other dumbass, noble idea he comes up with. She makes him pack a bag (or more likely, packs one for him), and tells him to go straight into the spooky old-growth forest a ways from town. Not the nice, civilized woods where Rumlow et al usually hunt, or along one of the roads to one of the other towns, but

“You head straight into the heart of that forest, Steve, because so help me, that is the only way you’ll be safe from him. And if you see any wolves - hell, if you hear any wolves - you say that Margaret Elizabeth sent you with a message for Natalia of the White Wolf’s pack. And that message is pay your debt.”

And no, she does not explain any of that to Steve before she bundles him out of her house and on the path to the forest road.

Oh, did I mention that, according to general knowledge in this AU, magic isn’t real, except for maybe small good luck charms and similar. Which plenty of people still scoff at. So telling Steve to talk to wolves is...suspicious.

Second aside, a while back, Peggy saved Natalia from an angry mob, took her family’s home, let her recover in her own bed, and then accidentally fell in love with her. Oops. Before, of course, Natalia had to return to her own pack. Now they have a secret on-again, off-again romance. (I haven’t thought about WHY Peggy didn’t just run away with Natalia immediately, other than it wouldn’t work for my story. Shh.) And of course, Natalia promised to someday do the same for Peggy.

Cutscene to forest, next morning!

Bucky and his wolf buddies are out cruising the forest, as you do, when they sense a Disturbance In the Forest *cough force cough* and decide to check it out. Upon smelling some humans they’ve collectively termed “those fuckers,” they decide to fulfill the threat they issued at their last meeting and be done with the problem.

Namely, they gave Rumlow and his crew the same ultimatum that he’d given Steve, except that Rumlow had a history of terrorizing and killing everything (and everyone) in the forest, whereas Steve just wanted to protect people.

They herd the horses and hunting dogs to the edge of the forest near the town, leave the bodies in a pile, and are ready to continue on, except...there’s still one human somewhere in the forest. And these shitty scumbags had been following their trail. Time to figure out what’s up.

They reach the edge of a clearing, and all the wolves sort of melt out of the undergrowth at the edges, while Bucky, in his big fucking white wolf form walks out to the edge, transforms, and then stalks out in his best Murder Strut (TM).

And yes, this is “built like a brick shithouse” Bucky from Civil War, and yes, he is entirely naked, and still covered in blood, so Steve’s brain goes immediately offline.

Steve backs up until his back hits a large tree, waving a large knife at this seriously threatening (but hot) impossible fucking being, because werewolves do not exist. Right?

Right?!?

Bucky just casually pins Steve’s arms over his head, disarms Steve and tosses the knife away (without even looking where he tosses it, which Steve finds inexplicably really hot), and leans in to smell him.

Now, when Bucky reached the clearing, he recognized from the scent that this was a potential mate for him - and possibly a very strong mate too. Mates, in their world, are more “you are compatible with this person” than “this is the only person you can ever love EVER” and the strength of the potential bond can vary as well. (Just like some relationships are stronger than others.) But basically, Bucky realizes that whoever’s in the clearing, they could be good together. They could be goddamn AMAZING. And yeah, he wants to smell some more of that.

Steve is...more than a little overwhelmed by suddenly having a giant wolf turn into the hottest man he’s ever seen, who’s now pinning him to a tree and huffing him, but he does manage “Natalia.”

At which Bucky choke-grunts. The fuck?

“I have a message for Natalia. In the white wolf’s pack. From Peg-from Margaret Elizabeth.”

Vaguely grumpy at not getting to nose up his mate, but also very curious as to where this is going, (because how does this tiny gorgeous human know his second or her mate? Yes, Natalia is Bucky’s second-in-command), Bucky finally lifts his head. “I am the White Wolf, and I speak for Natalia. What is her message?”

Steve stares up the man towering over him and snarls, “Pay. Your. Debt.”

Bucky grins, slow and wicked. “Gladly. But not here.” He steps back, lowing Steve’s arms, and then...somehow, suddenly, Steve’s arms are around his shoulders, his legs are lifted around his waist, and Bucky is cradling Steve to his chest while telling his pack “bring his things.”

And then everyone is racing through the forest, faster than Steve has ever seen anyone move before and what the fuck did Peggy get him into?

After an hour or two of running (being carried) through the forest, Steve finally puts his head down on White Wolf’s shoulder, tucks his face into his neck, and tries to rest. He didn’t get any sleep, he spent the whole night hiking through dark, unfamiliar forest, he’s pretty sure he can stop worrying about Rumlow hunting him down - in the most literal sense, yikes - he’s tired.

Also, being carried is kind of soothing. There’s a rhythm to it. And wolfman smells nice. Mm...

Bucky is perfectly happy to have his newly-found mate fall asleep in his arms, and he’s very loathe to put him down once the pack reaches their den. (I still can’t decide what I want the den complex to look like. A castle? A big house? A fort? Maybe it’s a cave system that has been smoothed out and built into like hobbit holes. Or the Holds and Weyrs from Pern.)

But he finally decides to lay Steve down, feather-soft, into his own bed and tuck him in warmly. After all, Natalia vowed to repay Margaret in kind for what she’d done to help her, and part of that had been sharing her bed. There are guest rooms, but they’re so far away. This is closer. Warmer. More convenient. Better for his mate. And he’ll explain everything as soon as he wakes.

Steve does wake up and demand all the details EVER, as well as actually meeting Natalia and hearing how she knows Peggy (to make sure that this “white wolf” isn’t making shit up). Bucky gladly complies. Natalia is more salty about it, but she deals.

Then Bucky commences doting on his new mate. While trying not to come on too strong. Mostly failing. He...may have left out the bit about being able to smell that they’re mates. So he’s just trying to keep Steve interested enough in werewolf life/forest life to stay there and not, say, ask to go back to the human world (or back to his town even) since Rumlow and his men are dead.

Steve finds everything fascinating, and since Bucky always responds immediately to his cues - verbal and nonverbal! - he doesn’t have a problem being wooed. He might even, actually, like to be wooed a bit faster. Or more carnally. Not that he knows how to hint that.

Peggy eventually shows up sometime and is cute with Natalia, aka Natasha.

Steve slowly settles into life as the Kept Human Boy of the most badass werewolf alpha ever, who loves his tiny feral little mate and WILL tear your throat out if you even look at him funny.

#stucky #steve/bucky #Steve Rogers #Bucky Barnes #shrinkyclinks #my writing #original post #fanfic #catscraftsandcommentary writes

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rosecorcoranwrites · 4 years ago

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Thought on the Writing Process

Most people have been taught, usually in an English or creative writing class, that the writing process is roughly as follows:

1. Brainstorm

2. Outline

3. Write your first draft

4. Edit/Rewrite

5. Write your second draft

6. Lather/Rinse/Repeat

7. Write your final draft

8. Publish

In theory, yes, this is generally how one gets from idea to finished product. Generally. Unfortunately, newbie writers see this as law rather than guidelines. This leads to questions like, “Is it ok to edit before you finish your first draft?”, because, according to The Writing Process(TM), editing must follow drafting. On the flip side, there are those who reject parts of the processes entirely, not just for themselves, but for everyone, saying things like “Outlines kill creativity”, because, you can't revisit and tweak your outline, because outlines must precede all other parts of writing except brainstorming because that's how it is in The Writing Process.

Of course, if you’ve been writing long enough, particularly if you’ve written drastically different stories, you know why these ideas fall short. Simply put, there is no one writing process; there is only your writing process. And that process is whatever works for you.

I would even say that you can have different processes for different books. In Styx, I jumped from brainstorming to drafting with no outline. Once I had finished my WIP and started editing, I used very sketchy outlines of what I had already written and where I wanted things to go to aid in rewrites. I continued brainstorming, known in professional circles as “daydreaming”, until I finished the whole series. My writing process is not linear; most of the individual parts exist side-by-side as I go.

But the Alternate-History/Fantasy/Mystery WIP has a totally different genre, setting, tone, and target audience from Styx, so it makes sense that it’s not going to come together in the same way. Happily, it is coming together, though.

I've discussed my outlining phase before, so let's look at how I wrote my prologue and chapter one. My hope in sharing my method (and madness) with you is to dispel some “hard and fast” ideas—i.e. myths—about how one "should" begin a book.

To preface this examination, I must reiterate that I have begun three books, and a novella, and yet still find writing the first chapter to be an agonizing ordeal. It’s a whole new voice and set of characters, and it’s hard for me. But I did it. And if I can do, anyone can.

Myth one: You must “just sit down and write”.

I don’t think I need to explain how much I hate this “advice”, which is generally said in a holier-than-though tone, like “I, a hard worker, can just sit down and write; I needn’t wait for inspiration like you lazy plebeians.” Bully for you, mate, but the rest of us find staring at a screen a hopeless and depressing endeavor.

No, I did not “just sit down and write,” though I wanted to. I felt, around mid-July, that I probably knew enough about my story to start. “Any day now,” I thought. “Any day now…” And then, I was in the shower (one of the best places for brainstorming, as I’m sure you know), and it came to me: a prologue, fully-formed like some Greek god springing from the appendage of another Greek god. This was how I would begin my book. “It’s time,” I thought.

And it was.

Myth two: Don’t worry about editing the first chapter until the draft of the whole book is done.

After writing a pretty rad prologue, if I do say so myself (and I do), I began chapter one. And it dragged. I was putting way too much detail and backstory for so early in the book, introducing too many characters, and saying too much about the setting. It was heavy. It was monstrous. It had to change.

I see first chapters as the foundation that the rest of a story stands on, or the trunk of the tree from which the rest of a story grows. It needn’t be perfect, but it needs to also not fail hard out the gate.

So I brainstormed. How could I trim the fat, while still having my character flying into the city the book is set in (because the flying scene was key). Could I also be lazy, I wondered, and avoid researching the type of plane the military might use to transport this character from the battlefield to the city?

Laziness won out. I realized I could change the timing of the scene. The character had already returned from battle, sat at home for a couple weeks pre-story, and is now, in chapter one, on her way to the city on a comfy commercial airline (which also lets me add some details about the time period: did you know that everyone smoked like a chimney even on airplanes in the 60s? Cause they did!). Problem solved.

Myth three: Just throw writing out there; it doesn’t have to make sense

This is related to Myth 2, but I still need to address it, because my problems weren’t quite solved. Though the first chapter flowed much better now, it was flowing straight toward a Grand-Canyon-sized plot hole!

I knew two things:

1. My two MCs, Constance and Cherry, must become roommates at least by the end of chapter 2 for the rest of the book, nay the series, to work

2. There is a very good reason for Cherry, knowing what she knows about Constance’s situation, to not want her as a roommate.

Theoretically, and according to popular advice, I should just throw the writing out there or skip this part and worry about it later, but I couldn’t do that. First of all, Constance and Cherry’s growing friendship is a large part of the theme and plot, so it would be weird to not know how it started. I needed to see them decide to move in together. I wanted to know how it all began.

Second, and more importantly, this wouldn’t just be a plot hole, but the mother of all plot holes from which rifts in the story would be berthed! When I say Cherry has a “good reason” for not wanting a roommate in Constance’s situation, I mean a reason that relates to the plot of the entire series, the villain’s motivation, the setting, and, well, everything. If I didn’t fix this hole, the entire story could come crashing down at any point. Again, first chapters are a foundation, and mine was shaky.

What to do… Well, why not return to my outline? I had a rough sketch of how the first book in the series was going to go, the vaguest idea of the plot for the second one, and only the beginning and ending of the third. I had been wanting to outline the arcs of the main characters and villains in each book, and now seemed like a decent time to do this.

I outlined Constance’s arc, with a big, blank, circled area that said “Moves in with Cherry for some reason???”, and left it at that. I then outlined her coming to terms with her backstory, and learning secrets about Cherry, and conflict, and so on. So far, no ideas.

I started outlining Cherry, from her backstory, and what she’s investigating (she is a detective, by the by), and how this leads to an eventual conflict with Constance, which had always kind of bugged me… and then everything fell into place. This thing that she knew—that thing that would make it weird for her to invite Constance into her home?—turns out that there isn’t any reason for her to know it at the beginning of book one. Literally no reason.

So now, she can become roommates freely and easily, then learn this terrible thing by the end of the book, and her and Constance dealing with this fact is a major part of the second book. I even figured out something about the climax of book 1 because I would now have o explain Cherry’s learning of this terrible fact.

So, because I desperately needed things to make sense and did not just throw writing out there, I came up with a more organic conflict for my characters, a plot for Book 2, a key part of the Book1 climax, and fixed the initial plot hole. Not too shabby!

Conclusion

So that’s my process: a continual spiral of drafting and brainstorming and outlining and rewriting and drafting and so on. You probably have a different process, and that’s fine.

I know that this may not actually help anyone start their own books, because it’s not exactly advice, but that’s the point. There is no magic formula that can make you write a good book, or even a good first chapter. You just have to find what works for you, wether that’s daydreaming for three months and then punching out a novel in a few weeks, or forcing yourself to write every day, or writing when inspiration strikes.

Too often, I believe writers focus on the “how” of writing and forget the “why”. You’re not writing to produce a book the “correct” way, nor are you writing to get as many words down as possible. You are writing in order to tell your story. As long as your process lets you do that, then it is the only writing process you need.

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thanksjro · 5 years ago

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Spotlight: Hoist - This One’s About the Guy I Keep Mistaking for Hound.

It’s time to focus on the straight man. Not, like, straight as in hetero. Don’t get it twisted, Hoist is queer by default just like every Cybertronian in IDW, not that that’s been established in-canon just yet. No, Hoist is the straight man because he’s the grounding line in this issue.

Hoist, as established during Spotlight: Trailcutter, is off the Lost Light currently on a mission. At this exact moment, he’s running from something.

Well, it was nice knowing you, Hoist!

No, he manages to escape Tarn’s grasp by doing some sweet grappling hook drifting using his tow line, and books it for the crashed shuttle that all his fellow mission-goers are hiding out in. Missionaries, if you will. Looks like Swerve left right after Trailcutter hung up on him, so it’s probably for the best that he didn’t get that forcefield around his voice box. Can’t imagine it working at that long a range. Sunstreaker’s here, along with his pet, Bob. Sunstreaker’s feeling a little salty right now, probably because he’s supposed to be the handsome one, and instead he’s got some sort of face thing going on in this issue.

Yeah, nobody looks quite right in Spotlight: Hoist. Then again, maybe I just don’t get Cybertronian beauty standards.

On that note, let’s take a real quick look at our interior artist for this issue, Agustin Padilla. Padilla doesn’t have a ton of work within the Transformers franchise, but he’s worked on some iconic pieces- specifically, MTMTE #16, The Gloaming.

Yeah, THAT one. We’ll get more into his work when we hit that issue, I promise.

Back to the story at hand: Hoist puts on the cloaking device for the ship, hiding them from Tarn, then gripes to Swerve about the scanner scope being a huge friggin’ liar, because it said that there wasn’t a gotdang thing out there, because there clearly is. Swerve is less than thrilled by the prospect of having Tarn in the general vicinity, to the point that he forgets how to talk for a solid .5 seconds. Swerve’s seen the DJD in action, and it’s not pretty.

They’ve got six hours before the cloaking shields drain the power, then it’s goodbye Safetytown, hello Murderville. So, what better way to spend their final hours than by sniping at one another over things like fault and who’s gotten the shortest end of the stick here?

Looks like Perceptor has a pretty strong lead on all the other guys, seeing as his legs have become one with the ship. Hoist’s busy trying to get in touch with the Lost Light, though no one’s picking up. Gee, wonder why.

Swerve is really in a needling mood, as he asks Sunstreaker where his apology is, seeing as he was the one piloting the ship when they crashed. Sunstreaker blows a gasket for a second over the fact that all he seems to do these days is apologize. Hoist manages to calm the situation and change the topic pretty smoothly, as he fiddles around with the internals of the shuttle to try and get the Lost Light’s attention.

Good at multitasking, Hoist is.

We get the backstory on Bob, who Sunstreaker found after Metroplex woke up and decimated the local Insecticon population on Cybertron, almost certainly upsetting the balance of the ecosystem and traumatizing poor Bob. Yes, even our dog stand-ins have trauma in MTMTE. Sunstreaker, in true pet-owner fashion, baby-talks Bob, saying that he’ll bite that big, nasty Tarn if he gets near them, won’t he? Oh yes he will! Yes he will! What a good boy, yes you are!

Swerve isn’t so optimistic.

Well, that’s certainly a sentence I just read with my own two eyes. Really hoping this is a bit of hyperbole, because I’d hate to think just what sort of life Swerve’s led that resulted in him watching a guy triple his size give himself an enema.

Sunstreaker, who knows that Swerve is kind of a massive baby, isn’t terribly impressed with how scared the DJD made Swerve, accidentally strokes the guy’s ego for a moment.

Swerve, completely on the defensive now, lists off the five things he’s afraid of. Hoist butts in to point out the implausibility of Swerve’s fears.

Smash cut to four hours later, and Swerve hasn’t slowed down a bit, having talked to the point that he doesn’t even realize he’s doing it anymore. Sunstreaker’s about had it with this marathon bashing he’s receiving, and suggests that Swerve pick on Hoist for a change. Swerve declines, saying that there just isn’t enough material to work with, because Hoist is boring.

Fun fact, this is his character quote for his introductory paragraph on the Wiki article. He had so little characterization up to this point, this is what they went with. Such is the fate of many of the Transformers who didn’t enter the original 80s cartoon until the second season. Roberts decided to run with it and take the rare opportunity to NOT give someone mental illness so severe and unchecked it’s simultaneously sad and hilarious. Hoist is probably the only dude in the entirety of the IDW run to just be a regular person.

After Swerve confirms that he does in fact know his colors, we blow past another hour, to find Hoist hard at work cutting Perceptor off of the ceiling/floor- Hoist, like most everyone on the Lost Light, is a doctor- as Sunstreaker and Swerve discuss previous scrapes they’ve gotten through. Apparently Sunstreaker fell off a bridge forever ago that was named after a biblical reference, because it doesn’t matter how little you believe in a higher power, you CANNOT escape the pull of the 𝐂𝐡𝐫𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐚𝐧 𝐀𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐭𝐢𝐜.

Swerve asks Hoist if he has anything to contribute to the discussion, and while Hoist does have experience in near-death situations, he’d really rather not talk about it. Swerve respects his privacy.

Well, he tries.

Hoist indulges our little red and white idiot, because it’ll get everyone the Swerve-equivalent of peace and quiet, and begins his tale.

Long story short, it looks like another hotshot pilot had the same idea as Hoist’s, and things got a little crashy-explodey-everyone’s-deady. Hoist was the only survivor, and had to walk his sorry butt back to civilization. Then the exhaustion set in, and he was forced to sit there, fully convinced that he would die alone in the middle of nowhere.

Once he’s finished with his story, Hoist makes the horrific discovery that Swerve’s been bleeding to death over the last five hours, and failed to mention it.

No, Sunstreaker, he’s honestly just like that all the time.

Swerve’s spark casing has ruptured, which I can only imagine is somewhat similar to having a hole poked in your heart. A problem, to put it lightly. Sunstreaker and Hoist decide that, to keep Swerve from biting it, they’ll take the fight to the DJD, in an attempt to get some sort of transport back to the Lost Light and all the tasty medical equipment on board.

Man, it really is unfortunate that Rung’s still not got a head at this point in the timeline, because Swerve is like a jelly donut filled with self-loathing. God just took a jumbo-sized bakery syringe and jammed it right in there.

Hoist and Sunstreaker ignore Swerve’s protests/pained screaming, and gear up for a fight with what they can find. Hoist manages to make two working crossbows and a butt-ton of arrows, not to mention a couple bowie knives in about five minutes, and they head out to kick some tushie.

The lads split up, keeping in touch via communicators, and Sunstreaker manages to get found by Tarn. He gets his ass kicked, because of course he does- the DJD aren’t famous for their macramé and pies, they’re famous for super-murder and being horny for the Decepticause. As Sunstreaker has the realization that he’s leaving his beloved Bob behind, Hoist finds him. Sunstreaker’s in quite the pickle, because he’s had his chest blown in, and Tarn’s been replaced by Shockwave, Megatron, Sixshot, and Overlord.

This just gets better and better doesn’t it?

Then this happens:

Welp.

Swerve’s theory may hold some water, but we can’t worry about that right now, because Hoist is going to try and fight this bastard. Good luck with that, Hoist.

Yeah, that went about as well as it could have.

Hoist is about to get stomped like a bug, when the Con-biner suddenly phases out of existence. Weird.

Hoist runs back to the shuttle, I guess just leaving Sunstreaker in the middle of that clearing, even though he literally is a tow truck. He returns to find that Swerve’s passed out from blood loss, but Perceptor’s still awake, which is good, because there’s some grade-A bullshit going on on this planet, and we need the smart guy to info-dump for the sake of the plot.

Man, this is such a cool plot device, and I’m so mad it never comes up again after this Spotlight.

So, Tarn and all the big bads that Hoist ran into weren’t real, but projections of his and his team’s worst fears. It was feeding off of Swerve, but now that he’s down for the count, it’ll probably go for either Hoist or Perceptor next.

Then there’s what feels like an earthquake, one so powerful it finally removes Perceptor from the ceiling, letting what’s left of his body fall. Hoist runs outside to see just what the hell’s happening now, only to find Metroplex outside and closing in.

The phobia shields work on sub-sentient creatures too? Good lord, this thing just never stops, does it?

Thinking quickly, Hoist scoops up Swerve and the upper half of Perceptor and bolts for the edge of the cliff their ship is sitting next to. He must have been training for the Robot Olympics or something, because he makes the leap by a large margin, even when weighed down by two limp bodies.

Then he punches Perceptor in the face, knocking him out cold.

Then he commits an act of animal abuse as he knocks Bob out with his tow hook.

Our hero, folks! Let’s give him a hand!

As Metroplex fades out of existence, Hoist remembers that he is not immune to trauma, as he’s forced to sit there, completely alone, until help arrives.

No wonder he got that massive Rodimus Star. What a trooper.

Thus ends Spotlight: Hoist, as well as the Spotlight series as a whole.

So, Swerve may not have much of a read on Hoist, but I figure I can try and take a stab at it. Hoist is… helpful. The entire issue, he’s the one who never stops doing things. If he’s not trying to repair the shuttle, he’s cutting Perceptor out of the floor, or he’s patrolling the perimeter, or trying to defuse the tension between his crewmates, or building weaponry, or punching people in the face for the greater good.

The folks he’s surrounded with for his Spotlight accent the characteristics he lacks- he’s not insanely smart like Perceptor, or strikingly handsome like Sunstreaker is intended to be, or capable of holding a conversation like Swerve. He blends into the background, always has and always will, both within canon and as a character.

He’s just a guy. He’s the guy, a jack of all trades, master of none. And that’s okay.

#transformers #jro #mtmte #spotlight #maccadam #Hannzreads #text post #long post #comic script writing #overthinking about robots

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antimatterpod · 4 years ago

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Transcript - 70. Clinton-Era Star Trek

Liz: And why are we passing up an opportunity to criticize Rick Berman? We love that shit!

Anika: Let's always criticize Rick. Definitely everything wrong is Rick Berman.

You can listen to the original episode here.

Anika: Welcome to Antimatter Pod, a Star Trek podcast where we discuss fashion, feminism, subtext and subspace, hosted by Anika and Liz, and Cali the cat. This week we're discussing the pilot episode of Star Trek Voyager, "Caretaker".

Liz: So it's the 35th anniversary or something. No, that cannot possibly be it. 25th?

Anika: 30th. 30, isn't it?

Liz: No, I was thirteen when I first saw it, and I'm thirty-eight going on thirty-nine. So it's got to be the 20th. Right? No, 25th...

Anika: No, it's definitely not -- um, it could be 25th. Because the 20th, I did a panel for the 20th. And that was probably five or six years ago?

Liz: I feel like 1996 plus 25 might be 2021?

Anika: I don't know! Math!

Liz: Welcome to Antimatter Pod, the podcast where we don't do maths.

It's the 25th anniversary of "Caretaker", and I'm really really curious to know, when was the first time you watched it?

Anika: I don't remember! I remember watching "Emissary". I did not see "Encounter at Farpoint" first, I saw it, years after having seen Next Generation.

Liz: Which is really the way to do it.

Anika: Yes. And Enterprise, also, I have no actual memory of watching the pilot, but I probably did. I probably watched Voyager and Enterprise live, but I don't actually have a good handle on it. If it was 1995, I was -- yeah, I didn't have a Star Trek group at that point. I was in college, you know, so I was, like, making new friends.

Liz: You weren't ready to unleash the full force of your geekiness?

Anika: Yup. I mean, I was a ridiculous person, you know, there's no way that I wouldn't have been known as a geek by pretty much everyone.

Liz: I actually have very vivid memories of the first time I watched "Caretaker", because I received it on VHS as a Christmas present the year I was thirteen. I really remember how much I liked Janeway, and I wished -- like Kate Mulgrew has a very unusual voice, and that was sort of everyone in the family's reaction. And I'm like, Yeah, it's a weird voice, but I love her, shut up.

And the next day my parents' marriage ended, so...

Anika: Wow. Okay!

Liz: I don't think these things are really connected. But in my mind, and in my heart, they very much are.

Star Trek wasn't really my main fandom at the time. TNG had ended, and I was very deep into having feelings about seaQuest DSV. So -- there are probably still dozens of us.

Anika: I loved that show.

Liz: It was so great. We could talk about my OTP for seaQuest next. But yeah, that was my first encounter with Voyager, and I didn't really become a capital letters Voyager Fan until a few months later, when we accidentally got season two videos.

Anika: Accidentally. Yeah, I don't know. It's a good pilot episode. Not a good episode.

Liz: I want you to expand on that.

Anika: So the thing about pilots is, there are very few good ones out there. It's really hard to introduce a show in a way that isn't cliched, and isn't, like, a bunch of people expositing about everything you need to know about them to each other. It's a -- it's hard. It's hard to do it well.

Liz: Yes. If you want to see a bad pilot, I highly recommend the pilot for Babylon 5. It is unwatchably bad.

Anika: Voyager still has plenty of pilot problems, like, "Caretaker" still has plenty of pilot problems, but they cover a huge amount of ground. They introduce so many things, and when you think about all of the stuff that has to happen in this episode versus, say, "Encounter at Farpoint", which is really just a bunch of people introducing themselves to each other -- that's literally all that happens in "Encounter at Farpoint".

Liz: And not even by name.

Anika: And then Riker watches what happened in the opening scene? I mean, that is a terrible, terrible pilot, and a terrible episode.

Liz: My friend and their partner have decided to start with Star Trek at "Encounter at Farpoint". And I'm like, I love you. You are good people. You don't deserve this.

Anika: Don't do it! No.

But -- so what I like about "Caretaker" is that everyone except B'Elanna -- and I will tell you more about that in a little bit. But everyone except B'Elanna has an introduction that is not them introducing themselves to each other. Or to the audience. They don't stand and say, "Hello, I am Harry Kim."

There's like little bits and pieces, like the -- what we learned about Harry Kim is what Janeway says about him to Tuvok, you know. What we learn about Tom Paris is that, you know, he's in prison. And the first time we see Janeway is Tom looking up at her, and it pans up and she's got her hands on her hips. And she's like, "Hey, I'm totally in charge, and I'm here with Obi Wan Kenobi to rescue you."

So it does pilot things. We get that there is tension between everyone and Tom Paris, like, literally everyone and Tom Paris, there is tension. And we get that there is tension between the Maquis and the Starfleet people, we get that Janeway and Tuvok have a very close, established relationship. Like, there's a lot of established stuff going on?

The Janeway and Tuvok stuff is so much better than the Picard and Crusher stuff, like, I can't even -- they're worlds apart in terms of how they play.

Liz: And not just because the language of setting up a platonic friendship between a man and a woman is different from setting up a romantic tension. Seven years have passed, and the writing is different. And Janeway -- the woman is the one in a dominant position. And it's just better.

Anika: It's just better, it's just better. But the actual story is not. Like, the whole Caretaker thing, it's clearly a plot device, it's very deus ex machina for "we have to get them lost in the Delta Quadrant. Like, we have to get them to the Delta Quadrant, and then we have to get them lost here."

And so, while it is entirely Janeway's choice, she's the only one with agency. She takes it away from everyone else. There's no meeting to discuss any of these things. And it's all very driven by this "there was, a guy, an ancient guy who, like, steals people and keeps them as pets. And his favorite people, like, he needs to" -- it's just ridiculous. Like, he's seeding himself so that someone -- so his child will be stuck with this horrible job of taking care of his ant farm of Ocampa.

Everything about it is bad. Like, nothing in that whole story is good. He's a bad person. And it's so wildly ridiculous. Like, he dies before they can even begin to understand how any of it happened? Like, they just blow up the array?

Liz: It's sort of like the writers going, "Oh, shit, we really don't want to ask too many questions about this guy, we'd better kill him as fast as we can."

Anika: Exactly. So. So if you start to think about this story at all… Being a pilot that introduces you to these characters and this situation, it's bad. But if you're just watching to be introduced to these characters and this situation, it's good.

Liz: I have never thought about it in those terms until you said this in our preparation, but I think that's a really, really good point.

And I'm going to confess that I have not re-watched "Caretaker" to prepare for this episode because I have seen it so many times, I can quote big chunks of it by heart. And, honestly, it's actually not that rewatchable. Deep Space Nine is not my favorite Trek, but I have seen "Emissary" so many times, and I enjoy it every single time. After a while, watching "Caretaker" starts to feel like a chore.

Anika: Yeah, because what's actually happening is not interesting.

Liz: Yeah, yeah.

Anika: And it's just full of holes, and I just get mad at everybody if I start thinking about it.

Liz: That's before we get into the bit where the Kazon exist.

Anika: Oh, the Kazon. They tried so hard to make the Kazon happen. And it just never happened.

Liz: Re-watching season two for my blog, I was struck by the fact that, with a different writing team, the Kazon could have been really fascinating and nuanced and interesting. And instead, it's basically white people having a moral panic about Black people. You know, they explicitly said that the Kazon were, like, "They're based on East Los Angeles area gangs!" And I'm like, Sure, okay. That's potentially interesting, but you're all white people. And, you know, we find out that thirty years ago, they freed themselves from slavery. And that's why the--

Anika: Thirty years!

Liz: I know! I know! That is my own lifetime! [But] that's why they're low tech and dysfunctional and desperate. And they're not given even an ounce of empathy, or sympathy, or even consideration. Even "Initiations", which I think is a good episode, and certainly, by far the best Kazon episode, there's just -- there's one good Kazon, and that's it.

And I do think part of the problem is that we never see their women, we never see them in any situation other than hostility. But mostly, I think the problem is that the writers are racist.

Anika: And the one good Kazon is a kid.

Liz: Yeah, yes.

Anika: It's almost like it's like a white savior -- or a Chakotay savior story, you know, like, Dangerous Minds--

Liz: Yeah.

Anika: -- where Michelle Pfeiffer goes into the inner city to save it.

Liz: The mental image of Chakotay as Michelle Pfeiffer is amazing. And yeah, that is a really messed up genre, and the only good thing it ever gave us was "Gangsta's Paradise".

So, yeah, that limitation in the perception of the Kazon is built right there into this pilot. And a lot of people go, you know, "It's so stupid how they have spaceships and they don't make -- they can't replicate or create their own water." And it's like, this would have been a great opportunity to explain some of their history instead of going, "Surprise! It's actually really racist!" a season later.

Anika: Yep. It's just really bad. Everything's bad about the Kazon. They're not great. They're not good villains. And anything -- every time they are almost interesting, they're almost instantly not interesting and/or racist at the same time.

Liz: It troubles me that the series with the first female captain is also the first series where sexism and misogyny are treated as anything other than a joke. We've had the Ferengi for years, and it's always been, "Haha, they like women to be naked." And it's only now that suddenly these writers are forced to empathize with a female character, that they're like, "Oh, maybe that attitude is ... bad?"

Anika: Maybe it's bad. We never see a Kazon woman.

Liz: Right, are they living in -- is it a Kazon Handmaid's Tale thing? Or are they warriors in their own right? Do they have their own politics? Are they trying to pull the strings from the background and maybe doing so more successfully than Seska because they're further in the background? We don't know. We'll never know.

Are we the only people who look at Star Trek and go, but what if the Kazon came back?

Anika: So we're definitely the only people who look at Star Trek and think, what if the Kazon came back?

But Cullah was almost an interesting character. And, really, the most interesting he ever was was when he took the baby, and, like, cared. That he cared about any of that happening, that he cared about Seska dying. It was like, Oh, my gosh, this is a real relationship all of a sudden. So it's just interesting. And they had a lot of interesting Macbeth scenes that were fun, that could have been so much better if they'd leaned into that instead of what they did.

Liz: Yeah.

Anika: But we're we're getting beyond the scope, because we're supposed to be talking about "Caretaker", and Cullah is not even in it

Liz: Turns out we could do a whole episode on the Kazon

Anika: Whoops!

Liz: That's really gonna get the listeners.

Anika: Let's talk about our first impressions of the crew.

Liz: So the scene where Tom looks up, and there's Kathryn Janeway with her bun of steel and her hands on her hips, and, you know, in her very first scene, she tells us that she was a scientist before she was a captain. I fell in love.

And yet, the pilot is really eager to tell us that just because she's a woman in command doesn't mean she's ... not a woman.

Anika: She has the world's most boring fiance.

Liz: Oh my God.

Anika: I hate -- like, my favorite part is that they're talking, they're facetiming on the viewscreen and all, and she's lliterally doing work while talking to him. Like, this is the last -- and they don't know that it's gonna be the last time for seven years, or whatever, but it's still gonna be months. And yet, she's just doing her work, and he has to tell her to look at him, which is hilarious. But he's also -- he's so milquetoast, I don't care.

Liz: He's just sort of your standard extruded Star Trek male love interest.

Anika: And then there's puppies. She loves her dog.

Liz: She loves her dog. She likes to be called ma'am rather than sir. It's a very 1990s "don't be too threatened" scenario, which is interesting, because you contrast that with Major Kira, who, I think, as the second lead, rather than the primary lead of the show, has more freedom to be abrasive, and unlikable, and unfeminine.

Anika: Yeah. But even in Deep Space Nine, like, Jadzia is super feminine. In presentation, at least, and the more it goes on, she gets -- the more they were like, "Don't worry, we also have this pretty one." Like, Nana Visitor is gorgeous, just, you know, don't yell at me. But--

Liz: After the pilot episode, she went and cut off her hair into -- it's not even a pixie cut. It's a really butch style. And she did that without getting the permission of the producers. She was just, like, that's how Major Kira would have her hair.

And then, over the next seven seasons, they worked really, really hard to force Kira into a feminine mold.

Anika: You're right, they absolutely do it to Janeway [too]. She has that whole Jane Eyre holoprogram thing that -- everything she does in her free time is, like, from the 19th century. It's just very weird. She's super old fashioned in her forward thinking scientist future ladyness.

Liz: I think a lot of that is down to Jeri Taylor, and the fact that she was already, for the '90s, older than the generation of feminists who were defining the movement at the time. I realized once that she's only a year younger than DC Fontana.

Anika: It's interesting. Kate Mulgrew was forty when she started Voyager, but according to apocrypha, she was playing five years younger, like, she's not supposed to be forty.

Liz: No, I've heard that too, that Janeway was meant to be about thirty-five. Which, I mean, I guess? Maybe?

Anika: [What that] means is that she is admiral super young. That's what I take out of it. So good on her. It's just weird. It's like, why? I don't know. It's just very Hollywood. It's very, "Oh my gosh, we can't have a forty-something woman in a starring role. We can't possibly do that. So, okay, we got this one and, and we're gonna go with her, but she's not really forty. You can still be attracted to her. You're allowed, everybody."

Liz: You know, "We've got her in a corset so she's thin, and she's in high heels so she's tall and she'll walk in a sexy way."

It really struck me, the first time I watched Discovery, the first time I watched "The Vulcan Hello", how feminine and comfortable Michelle Yeoh looked with her hair in a ponytail -- and it's a very loose ponytail -- and she's wearing flats. I was like, Oh my god, this is what Janeway could have been.

Anika: Right.

Liz: Now, I know that the next character on our list is Chakotay, but I think we should talk about Tom, because he and Harry the POV characters for this pilot. It's sort of telling that Chakotay is sidelined from the beginning.

Anika: I always say that there are three co-protagonists in this pilot. Tom, Janeway, and Kes are the people who have a point of view and an arc.

Liz: Yeah, you're right.

Anika: And everybody else is just sort of in their orbit.

Liz: Even Kes barely has agency.

Anika: It's a giant cast, so they couldn't -- and again, B'Elanna is not -- like, the B'Elanna that I know and love is not in this pilot. She's just not even actually there. There is a B'Elanna in this pilot, but it is not even close to who she is. And she's barely on screen. She's just an angry Klingon lady, that's all she is.

Liz: Who almost flashes her whole boob in one scene.

Anika: But she immediately -- like, the very next episode is a B'Elanna episode. So it's sort of like, "We didn't put any effort into her in the pilot, because we're gonna, you know, we're gonna have a whole episode about her. It's gonna be okay." And it's great, "Parallax" is a way better story.

Liz: Yeah, I don't think that's necessarily a bad choice. That's like Discovery taking six episodes to introduce it's whole cast. And I think B'Elanna is better served by that, but it's interesting how objectified she is in this story.

Anika: Yes.

Liz: To get back to Tom, I listened to the Delta Fliers episode on "Caretaker" when it came out. I'm sort of at peak Star Trek podcast, so I've gotten behind on them. But that's Robert Duncan McNeill and Garrett Wang talking about their memories of each episode. And--

Anika: It's very fun.

Liz: --among the things that I enjoyed were Robert Duncan McNeill calling himself out for how sleazy Tom is towards women, particularly Janeway. But he blames himself and I'm like, I'm pretty sure you are following a script, dude. Like, this is not your responsibility.

But also, he says at one point that Tom Paris was considered as a potential love interest for Janeway, and that they were going to cast someone older for the role.

Anika: I've been saying that since the beginning. Janeway and Paris, as we all know, are my OTP of Voyager. And I'm not off that! I ship that! Like, I ship literally everything. But it's always going to be -- Janeway and Paris are going to be the most important to me, in terms of Voyager characters, just partly because, again, I was, what, 20? And I -- not even--

Liz: Yep.

Anika: It was formative, you know, it's like, I loved Voyager so much, and I loved Janeway and Paris. The first fan fiction that I read and wrote was Janeway and Paris. Iit's just gonna be them.

And so the idea that they were ever considered, quote, unquote, canon, it just makes me feel like I wasn't a crazy person reading into the entire first two seasons.

Liz: No.

Anika: I firmly believe that you can see a relationship behind the scenes in the -- you know, up until he starts having a thing with B'Elanna.

Liz: No, in fact, there's a point in season two where Robbie is like, "I think this is around the time they stopped pushing Janeway and Paris and started moving towards Janeway and Chakotay."

I found that really interesting, because the other thing that we know about the development of Voyager is that they always wanted a Nick Locarno type of character. They always wanted Robert Duncan McNeill in the role. And, honestly, that doesn't mean that they never considered casting someone older. We know that there were legal issues with having the Nick Locarno character, and that's why he's Tom Paris.

And, you know, it's like how they auditioned men for Janeway and women for Chakotay at one point. Like how DS9 auditioned white men for Sisko, you throw everything at the wall and see if it sticks. But I think the AU with an older Paris would have been interesting.

Anika: I'm fine with it as is. I like the ten-year age gap, personally, but I don't even mind -- I wouldn't mind the five-year if she's really thirty-five. Whatever, fine. Then we're closer to a five-year age gap. But I like the idea of her, like, meeting him when he was a kid and then forgetting that that happened.

Liz: Not giving him any thought, and then meeting him as an adult and going, oh.

Anika: "Whoa."

Liz: Yeah. That would have been really cool because it's a sort of borderline creepy storyline that we see a lot with men and younger women. And I don't remember ever seeing it with women and younger men. And I like an age gap, and I like a relationship where there -- there are problematic elements to be negotiated.

Anika: Yes, exactly. Oh, my favorite things.

Liz: But also I think Tom Paris in the pilot is a deeply terrible person, and I hate him.

Anika: Oh, yeah.

Liz: So many of my friends are watching Voyager for the first time and going, Wow, Tom Paris, he is the worst. And I'm like, Yeah, but wait a few seasons, he's going to be the suburban dad of everyone's, I don't want to say everyone's dreams, but he's going to be peak suburban nice dad. And it'll be great.

Anika: You said that Robbie says that he blamed himself for being skeezy -- see, I give Robbie all the credit for him not being skeezy. I'm on the other side, where I really feel like they tried, they tried to make Tom Paris that guy, the guy that I don't ever like and never want in my Star Trek, and they keep trying to put him in Star Trek. Like, every series has that guy. And it was Tom Paris.

And he was just not capable of playing it. He put so much warmth into these horrible lines and situations that you couldn't -- you couldn't read it that way. And so there was, like, oh, there's something deeper here, he's not just hitting on people, he's lonely. He's not just, like, he's not getting, you know, doing -- he's not trying to hit on the captain in her pool [game] or whatever, he's actually trying to make a friend. He's telling her that she matters to him because she's giving him these second chances.

I read all of my Janeway/Paris stuff into these early seasons where he has horrible storylines, because the actors aren't acting like he's a skeevy, horrible person.

Liz: No, and all of Tom's good qualities are -- or seem to be -- Robert Duncan McNeill's good qualities. You know, he's open, he's generous. He's kind of funny, kind of a dork, but self-aware about it, and very passionate about holding up the people that he loves. That seems to be Robert Duncan McNeill. And that is who Tom Paris becomes.

But I also think, like, what you were saying about how he's not flirting, he's trying to make friends, I also think that his background in terms of having neglectful and emotionally negligent parents, he needs people to like him. And if the only way he can do that is to make them attracted to him -- to build an attraction -- that's the strategy he'll use.

Anika: It's such a psychological thing that really happens, and again, often with women.

Liz: Yeah.

Anika: I gotta say, this might be a good place to say, where Voyager does an incredible job of giving all of the men various feminine traits or, like, you know, stereotypically woman-centered things that happen--

Liz: Right, right, Chakotay is sensitive and domestic. And Tuvok defines himself to a large degree by his parenthood, and Neelix is the cook, and the Doctor is a caretaker, and Harry -- with Harry, I feel like a lot of it's bound up in anti-Asian racism, to be honest, and the emasculation of Asian men. But he is another very sensitive and gentle guy who doesn't really like -- he likes to be romanced, he doesn't like to be seduced.

Anika: It's great. And then, you know, the women -- we get B'Elanna in the engineering role. And she's also angry all the time.

Liz: Yes.

Anika: And Janeway is a scientist and in charge, you know, she's the authority.

Liz: And Seven -- Seven, when she's comes, in is sort of her own thing altogether. But she's the Spock. She's the Odo. She's the Data. And it's notable that the most classically feminine of the characters is Kes, and she's the one who is treated as a failure and discarded and in the fourth season.

Anika: Yeah. They don't know how to write for her, is what it comes down to

Liz: I think it's that thing where they don't know how to empathize with women who don't act in some way, like men. And this is all very binary and very steeped in stereotypes and generalization.

Anika: But it's very '90s.

Liz: It is so '90s.

Anika:

I can say, as a child of the '90s -- I can still call myself that -- that it's what we were grappling with. Like, the '80s were -- there was this whole power fantasy stuff, right? And then the '90s were, you know, grunge and riot grrrls. And so there's just -- this show, like, yeah, it's using all those stereotypes, and so that's why I'm calling them feminine traits. I don't think that cooking or being a good parent or having soft hair or being a musician is feminine in any way.

Liz: No, but we are dealing in stereotypes.

Anika: It's gender coding. That's what I'm talking about.

Liz: Relatedly, one of the reasons Janeway's character is considered 'inconsistent', and I'm using air quotes because I don't think that's actually -- I don't think she's the worst in terms of inconsistent writing and Star Trek captains. But -- (Archer) -- but part of the reason for that--

Anika: My trash boy.

Liz: --is that all the writers had a different feminine stereotype or archetype in mind when they were writing Janeway. Some people saw her as a schoolmarm and Jeri Taylor saw her as an earth mother for some godforsaken unknown reason. And it seems like no one was really able to go, "Hey, what if we get past the stereotypes and archetypes and just write her as a ... person?"

Anika: It's just bad. And it's true. There are definitely inconsistencies where she -- the one that I always point out is that she has this super faith thing where she literally has a scene where she explains the concept of faith and God to Harry Kim. And then, a season later, she has to go save Kes from whatever horrible thing is holding Kes hostage.

Liz: And suddenly she's a TV atheist.

Anika: Yeah. And it's like, what are you talking about? That is not Janeway. It's just wrong. You can't have it both ways. And so there are inconsistencies.

I think you're right, that it's a problem with different people having -- like, putting different ideas of who Janeway is onto her.

Liz: And certainly, Archer is at his worst when they try and force him into an equally narrow masculine box.

Anika: Yeah. Right.

Liz: So, the patriarchy. It hurts men too!

Anika: But I do think that, yeah, Janeway isn't alone in her inconsistencies. And I also think, of every Star Trek character, or every captain, she has the most reason to be inconsistent.

Liz: One hundred percent. Because she's the only one--

Anika: She shouldn't be--

Liz: Yeah.

Anika: She shouldn't be consistent when she's holding the entire, like, the idea of Starfleet and the Federation herself. She's gluing it together in a place that doesn't know what any of those words even mean.

Liz: And she can never get a break. Picard can take a holiday and go to Risa, and wear skimpy shorts, and have a fling, and have adventures. Janeway has to do all that in the context of her ship.

Anika: Right. And she's always captain. She never gets to not be captain, even if she's in the holodeck hanging out.

Liz: Yeah. Basically, Voyager is 2020, and Janeway is working from home.

Anika: So I cut her a little slack.

Liz: Hah, I cut her a lot of slack.

Anika: And I write into my own little headcanons that it is all of this psychological stuff that she's dealing with. Uou know, I say, Oh, well, she was depressed then, so she was making these choices. So.

Liz: Honestly, Janeway makes sense to me. There are inconsistencies, but she holds -- like, she feels consistent emotionally. And that's what's important.

Anika: Right.

Liz: Let's talk about Chakotay, who you've described here as the most stereotypical Native character ever.

Anika: It's just really sad.

Liz: I -- yeah.

Anika: Like it's sad on every level, because now, creating a Native character now, which they should definitely do, but putting that character into Star Trek, that character automatically is stuck with the Chakotay baggage. And that's just so upsetting. We're never going to get this clean, quote unquote, Native character, because of this mess that we got with Chakotay, where he -- like, it was already bad, the TNG episode isn't any better. That episode is really bad.

Liz: That's the episode "Journey's End", which sets up either Chakotay's home planet or one very much like it, colonized by Native Americans, because that is absolutely how Indigenous people work.

Anika: So bad. And then they get kicked out, kind of like in Picard, you know, Starfleet's like, "You gotta leave now, because the Cardassians own this place." And it's like, but they don't really? And no one really does?

So, right, it puts them on the wrong -- it's just all it's all bad. It's all bad. And it's all very much a white person writing what they think an Indigenous person is.

Liz: Right.

Anika: All it did the dream watching, and--

Liz: The vision quest...

Anika: --none of it is true. That's where I end the sentence, none of it is true to the idea of an Indigenous character. And it's just it never gets good in Voyager. I want to like Chakotay, and I have troubles.

Liz: To their credit, they hired a consultant. Unfortunately, the consultant was a white fraud, a Native faker, who was already notorious for being a fake, and Native American groups had been warning Hollywood for years that he was actually a white guy. So they start off on a bad foot.

They audition a lot of Native American actors and decide they're too, quote unquote, on the nose, meaning too Native American. So they cast Robert Beltran, who is a very talented Mexican American actor, who doesn't seem to have any Native heritage. I don't know how Indigenous identity in Mexico works, but to my knowledge, he doesn't really participate in Native culture, or anything like that. So, yeah, they just went for the nearest brown guy, basically.

Anika: And the thing is, if he was Mexican American, and not Native, that would be better,

Liz: Right, or just a Mexican American character who has some Native heritage that he is learning about, like, that is a really interesting story. But like, so much of it is dated even for 1996.

Anika: Right. That's right, exactly.

Liz: I remember as a kid cringing every time they use the word Indian, because even then I knew that the new and appropriate term was Native American. And just the whole "I hear in some tribes, if I save your life, you belong to me" -- that's a setup for a slash fic. It shouldn't be canonical.

Anika: Yeah, everything about poor Chakotay is poorly done. And the further we get from Voyager, like, the more time goes on, the -- [it gets] more blatantly bad. It really starts to stick out.

Liz: I understand what you're saying, that everything they do from now is tainted by what they did with Chakotay. But I really do think that new Trek, the Trek Renaissance, needs Indigenous representation.

Anika: They should definitely do it.

Liz: Yeah, like Discovery films in Toronto and there is no shortage of hugely talented Native Canadian -- I think it's Canadian Aboriginal? Of Indigenous Canadian actors. And and, obviously, Evan Evagora in Picard is half-Maori ... but he's playing a Romulan, so.

Anika: I'm not saying they shouldn't do it because of all this baggage. I just feel sorry for the actor.

Liz: Yes.

Anika: I feel badly for the person who has to deal with it.

Liz: Also because they're inevitably going to end up on panels with Robert Beltran, and honestly, he seems like a dick.

Anika: Everything I've seen of Robert Beltran has been very, like, dismissive, I guess, is the best way -- like, when people bring up to him that, you know, maybe it wasn't the best representation of an Indigenous population, he sort of gets defensive and doesn't listen.

Liz: Yeah.

So let's move on to the greatest character in all of Star Trek...

Anika: Tuvok?!

Liz: Tuvok! Yes.

Anika: I have a Tuvok standee in my house now. I love it. It's just -- Tuvok is amazing. Best Vulcan by far.

Liz: Yes.

Anika: His relationship with Janeway is so precious to me. I just love everything about it. I love how warm it is right off from the beginning. I love that he is just as -- he does crazy stuff for Janeway, the way that Kirk does crazy stuff for Spock. It's that same level of "that's insane," and I love that. I love that they have that relationship. And I'm forever sad that they are the least represented in fan fiction. Like, even, like, platonic. I'm not saying -- I do, I would ship them. But...

Liz: But we don't even have fic about them having adventures.

Anika: Right? There's just -- I mean, Tuvok, yes, best character in Trek. Chemistry with everyone is highly -- [but] he's the least represented in Voyager. It's very upsetting to me because it cannot not be racism. There's just -- I don't have another explanation for why Tuvok is so ignored.

Liz: I have a theory, but I think the primary reason is indeed racism. But I also think it's that Tuvok enters the series as a man who already knows who he is, and his regrets are mainly behind him, and he doesn't really change much over the course of the series, save that he unbends to an extent to reveal his affection more than he did at the start. But, on the whole, he's not the most dynamic character.

And I love that about him! I love his stability, I love the respect that he has for everyone, even Neelix, who often doesn't deserve it. And I think he is a character who is almost the heart and soul of the show in a way that's easily overlooked because he is entertaining and fun to watch with every single other regular character.

When I put it like that, the only reason he is overlooked -- aside from -- like, I really do think a lot of it comes down to racism

Anika: Yeah, he absolutely is stable. And he absolutely does -- he's a supporting character in every way? He supports, but it's sort of like, so shouldn't he be supporting people? Can't we still write fic about that? I don't understand.

Liz: Now I'm thinking that if he was a white guy, he would probably be the male bicycle of the cast. Like I realized the entire cast minus Neelix is basically the bicycle, but now I'm side-eyeing fandom extra hard.

Anika: I just love Tuvok so much. And I have written Tuvok, but I've definitely written for January and Paris. So I'm also part of the problem, I guess.

Liz: I will confess that I completely overlooked him until my current rewatch, so I am not excusing myself from anything here.

Anika: I try to give him, you know, his due, at least in my ensemble fic. I don't actually write much Voyager fic right now.

Liz: No, no. I haven't for years

Anika: And also T'Pel, too, I'm, like, on a mission to give T'Pel literally any characterization whatsoever.

Liz: Someone somewhere out there is going to write me a Janeway/Tuvok/T'Pel fic, and I'm going to be very grateful.

Anika: Nice.

Liz: We're almost at an hour. Let's talk about Harry Kim. Every time I watch "Caretaker", I'm blown away by how beautiful Garrett Wang is, and the floppiness of his perfect '90s non-threatening boy hair. It's magnificent.

Anika: That's absolutely true. One of my photo caps, he just has amazing hair. One shot, you know, my, like, tagline for Janeway is that her hair is fabulous. And I was like, Oh, HIS hair is fabulous, and I compared it to Poe Dameron.

Liz: Oh, no, you're not wrong. I said something in my "Q and the Gray" post about how the only redeeming feature of that episode was Harry's floppy hair. And then I mentioned that when I linked to it on Twitter, and Garrett Wang replied, and I -- I cannot be acknowledged by the actors in that way. Like, I want to objectify you, you don't get to respond. This is a one-way relationship.

Anika: Poor Harry Kim. Harry Kim is another one who is routinely overlooked by fandom. But unlike with Tuvok, there are like the rabid Harry Kim fans who will come to his defense and do write him, usually with Tom, but--

Liz: I understand that there is a thriving, powerful of Tom/Harry shippers, and I don't ship it, but I fully respect them.

Anika: And so he has his own little corner, I guess, of the fandom. But it is still true that, in wider fandom, if you're gonna ask non-Voyager fans -- but Trek fans -- they'll point out Harry Kim as a waste of space, that he has no characterization whatsoever--

Liz: Lies!

Anika: --that, literally all they know about him is that he was never promoted during the series. And it's just, it's gross.

Liz: Which is, again, racism.

Anika: Which is just really bad.

Liz: Because Rick Berman did not like Garret Wang.

Anika: Exactly. What I do when I'm watching Voyager, and I really saw it -- like, Voyager actually does a good job -- you know how we were always complaining about making the bridge crew annoyingly prominent in Discovery? Voyager does a really good job with their giant ensemble. And to be fair, they're all like actual regulars.

Liz: They are, which I do think was a mistake.

Anika: They're supposed to be prominent, but little things. Like there's this great part where we learn that Harry wears a mask to sleep, and why. And, of course, he has his clarinet and his love of music, that he, saved up replicator rations to make a clarinet because he left his actual one at home.

And he has his fiancee, and when he is in that little bubble reality where he's back on Earth, and he has like a favorite coffee place, and he has a favorite coffee order. And it's like, those are the details that I want. You know, they're like throwaway -- not important to the plot. They just tell you who Harry is.

Liz: And what he values.

Anika: And he's a really sweet guy that cares about community, and knows people's names, and pays attention to little things. I don't understand the criticism that Harry Kim doesn't have character, because he has so much character.

Liz: What I don't get is this idea that Harry Kim is bad with women. He is wildly successful with women. He just finds it uncomfortable when women come at him aggressively. Like--

Anika: Yeah!

Liz: --that's it. And I think, again, this memetic idea that Harry is bad with women is racist, because it comes up in the script, and people accept it as reality, but it's not remotely true.

Anika: It's not true. And it's weird. He has plenty of little one-off relationships.

Liz: Right!

Anika: It's strange. It's strange. And also this idea that he's not promoted. That's not on Harry.

Liz: No. That is, in universe, on Janeway and, in reality, on Rick Berman

Anika: Right.

Liz: And why are we passing up an opportunity to criticize Rick Berman? We love that shit!

Anika: Let's always criticize Rick. Definitely everything wrong is Rick Berman. And, you know, all of them. Brannon Braga and Jeri Taylor aren't -- they're better than Rick Berman, but they aren't great.

Liz: No, no, I'm very fond of Braga because I share his tastes for weird science fictional time travel stuff. Buuuuuut...

Anika: There's stuff. There are things that are questionable. And obviously Rick Berman is a trash person and not the way that Jonathan Archer is.

Liz: No, he is a trash person in the low level #MeToo way.

Anika: Right. But back to Harry.

Liz: Yes.

Anika: Harry had a fiancee, so I don't exactly understand how he's bad with women. And in the new Janeway autobiography, he gets back with her.

Liz: Oh, nice!

Anika: I was like, Oh, that's actually -- like, I always sort of I make fun of [Libby] almost as much as I make fun of Mark, but that's really not fair to Libby, because she--

Liz: She has a personality.

Anika: In the one episode we get with her -- yeah, she has a personality, they actually have a really sweet relationship that I'm sort of, like, I can cheerlead that, you know? And since I don't like any of his canon relationships in the show, it's like, sure, he gets back together with Libby. They have a happy life, that's great.

Liz: Yeah, I love that for him.

Anika: I'd also -- while we're because we're allegedly talking about "Caretaker"--

Liz: Oh, yeah.

Anika: The pet names, the way that B'Elanna and Harry call each other Starfleet and Marquis, every once in a while it comes back up, and every time I'm happy, and I love their relationship the way that it -- like, it's not actually in the show. But their relationship that is seen in those tiny moments where they call each other by these pet names, and they support each other and, like, share, Tom is really great.

I just wish that they had built on the potential of those characters and that relationship, and that we got more of that friendship.

Liz: And it really feels like they were setting the groundwork for a canonical romance. And I have to believe that the only reason they didn't go through with that was, again, racism.

Anika: Yeah. Racism.

Liz: Because it had faded well into the background before they worked out that Roxann Dawson had amazing chemistry with Robert Duncan McNeill. And I like Tom and B'Elanna, but I also would have liked Harry and B'Elanna.

I just think at some point early on, they decided, "Actually this Asian kid, we're not going to do anything to support him or uphold him."

And, you know, allegedly he was the one -- almost the one who was fired at the end of season three, and then Garrett Wang made it onto the People's most beautiful 50 Most Beautiful People of the Year list, and they ditched Jennifer Lien instead.

Wang has said that that's not entirely accurate, and I think I'll have to dip back into Delta Fliers when he discusses that, because certainly Jennifer Lien seems to have had problems even then.

Anika: Yes.

Liz: And I hate that her career came to an end because I wonder if she would have been in a better position now than if she had -- if it had not [been her that was let go]. For those who don't follow Voyager actors in the news, Lien has not acted for a long time, and I think is living in Texas, and has racked up a bunch of criminal charges. And basically -- "don't do meth" is the moral of the story.

Anika: Her story reminds me a lot of Grace Lee Whitney's.

Liz: Yeah. And you know, Whitney really struggled with addiction for a very long time, and got through it and her career revived, and she wound up having a successful and happy life. So I hope that comes true for Lien as well. Is this a good segue to talk about Kes?

Anika: Yes. I love Kes, and they from the beginning did not know how to write her. They did not know what they were going to do with her. I hate her introduction. I love Kes as, like, the girl who's climbing up the rabbit hole.

Liz: The fairy princess going on adventures.

Anika: But I hate the fact that we meet her as battered and bruised, and a prisoner, and being saved by Neelix, who's lying to our heroes in order to do it. Everything is bad about that. That's not just -- that's just not good.

Liz: I think even if Janeway had been the one to save her, it would have been better.

Anika: Yes.

Liz: But yeah, I think the whole Neelix/Kes relationship was--

Anika: Oof!

Liz: --poorly conceived. Yur note here is that Kes is an abuse victim and also a literal child. And to be honest, I never have any problem accepting the Ocampa for fully grown adults at the age of one, and they are sexually mature and emotionally mature -- or as emotionally mature as an adult twenty-year-old can be, and there's nothing skeevy happening here. But nevertheless, the gap in age between Ethan Phillips and Jennifer Lien is so great?

Anika: Right.

Liz: I think if they had cast someone younger as Neelix, it might have worked, but it was so far from being a relationship between equals.

Anika: The issue with the actors' ages is, because they're both playing aliens, and they're both playing aliens that are new, even -- like, they're not even Vulcans or whatever, that we're aware of, we don't know how how old either -- like, I guess we know that Ocampa live to be seven-years-old. But until she comes back in "Fury", I was always sort of like, What's seven? You know, we made up time, seven in the Delta Quadrant could be eighty, we don't know. You know, it's another thing that you shouldn't think too much about in science fiction.

And then, Neelix. The thing is that even if he is a young -- what is he? Talaxian? Even if he is a young Talaxian, he has a ship, he has a job. He was in the military for a while, and left.

Liz: I was gonna say, his history in the military makes me think he's considerably older than, say, thirty?

Anika: Yeah. He's lived too much to have this. And she literally lived her two years underground, being one of the Caretaker's ants in his ant farm. [Note from Liz: we regret to report that Kes is, in fact, one year old in "Caretaker". She turns two in "Twisted" and WHY DO I KNOW THIS WITHOUT LOOKING IT UP?] She has no experience whatsoever. So putting those two together is the -- it's just not balanced in any way.

Liz: No. And I, as much as I love an age gap, there are certain conditions that have to be in place for me to be on board. One is that, in experience, or intelligence, they have to be equals. And two, the story has to acknowledge the unevenness and the consequences of that. And Voyager tried really, really hard not to.

Anika: Right.

Liz: It felt dishonest in a way. And then there was the whole Neelix jealousy subplot that came along a season or so later. It really served both characters poorly. I like Neelix? But I like him best after Kes breaks up with him in season three.

Anika: I like him best, really, after Kes is gone. Unfortunately,

Liz: No, no, that makes sense. I think sometimes a relationship holds a character back, even the memory of it. And it's easier to overlook the skeeviness of the Neelix/Kes relationship once Kes is gone.

Anika: And the issue is that Neelix's other closest relationship is with Tuvok, who is another person who -- like, Tuvok is Mr. Boundaries, and Neelix doesn't know what a boundary is.

Liz: Yeah. That's my other beef.

Anika: So my -- like, I get why they put those two characters together, and why they built up that relationship. But when you look at the way that Neelix treats Kes, and the way that Neelix treats Tom, and the way that Neelix treats Tuvok together, it doesn't make Neelix look good.

Liz: No, no, you kind of have to take him -- you really have to compartmentalize him.

And it's a shame, because I love Kes, and I really identified with her when I was a teenage girl. Obviously I identified with Janeway, and weirdly, I sort of overlooked B'Elanna because she was so angry, and I was very much in denial about being an angry teenage girl. But I love her now, obviously.

But one of the reasons that they thought Kes was unappealing was that she was too much aimed at the teenage girl demographic. And in the costume book, they describe her as dressing like a teenage girl. And I'm like, you keep saying that like it's a bad thing!

Anika: Hollywood -- society as a whole -- really looks down on teenage girls.

Liz: Yeah.

Anika: And, you know, a politician says something that you don't like, and they say, "Oh, just like a teenage girl." And it's like, what? What are you talking about? So yeah, it's just bad.

Liz: I'm just saying, you know, who were the first to be into the Beatles? Teenage girls.

Anika: Well, teenage girls are great, and we should always support them. I have that -- that's one of my, like, reusable hashtags, #SupportTeenGrls, because it's just, it's just silly. It's silly not to.

Liz: I think that Kes could easily have coexisted with Seven. Like, I think it would have been really fascinating.

Anika: Yeah! You've said this before, that they should -- like, they should have had, like, five regulars and a bunch of supporting characters. And that's true.

Liz: If they had gotten to season four and dropped, say, Kes and Harry down to recurring, so there's not the pressure to have them in every episode and not the pressure to give them stories--

Anika: And Neelix! Why are we keeping Neelix?

Liz: Oh yeah, no, Neelix has to go.

Anika: Just saying. But for some reason, they were really against all of, like, that.

Liz: Ironically for a science fiction show, I think Star Trek in the '90s was really afraid to change.

Anika: Yeah, it's because, you know what happened with Terry Farrell, where she was like, "Look, I don't want to be a regular. I still want to play this character. I just don't want to be a regular," and they were like, "No." And--

Liz: You say "they", but--

Anika: --they wrote her out and brought in someone else. Yeah.

Liz: It's Rick Berman.

Anika: We all know who.

Liz: This is a great episode for criticizing Berman. I love it.

Anika: Itwould have made so much more sense to spread the love. But ... I don't know, they wrote B'Elanna really well, so I gotta give them that. B'Elanna is my -- you know, B'Elanna and Seven -- but Seven is, like, on a whole other level. B'Elanna is--

Liz: Seven is extraordinary. B'Elanna is also--

Anika: --an incredibly well-written character over seven seasons. She goes on a journey. And they check back in with her at the same time, you know, every season. And it's really clever, and it's really well done.

I don't know how they did so well with B'Elanna when they did so poorly with others. But they did. And maybe -- I said that she's angry all the time, and that's a, quote unquote, masculine trait. And so maybe it just was easier to do -- like it was easier for the writers to write that. But you said that you didn't initially identify with B'Elanna.

Liz: No.

Anika: I want to repeat something I said on a panel some years ago now, where I said, B'Elanna is my Spock.

Liz: I remember you've talked about that before, and I think it's a really great point. And I think having a character who is as angry as her, and as conflicted about her identity, and whose story carries over seven seasons -- and it never really comes to an easy resolution. She goes forward, she goes backwards. She has good days, she has bad days. I think it's an absolute masterclass in writing a key supporting character over time.

Anika: That she is consistent in her inconsistency, that all of the inconsistencies that come up in B'Elanna 's story are there -- are pointed out, are part of the plot, are, like, "We're gonna deal with this now."

And she's consistently going back and forth in different ways, and she never gets over her -- like, she never fully gets over her identity issues. She's dealing with, an anxiety issue pretty much throughout the entire -- even in the seventh season, she's still dealing with that anxiety.

Liz: Yeah!

Anika: And that's true to life. And so it's just really well done. I think that if they had paid more attention to her, they would have screwed her up.

Liz: That's exactly what I was going to say.

Anika: It's exactly the right amount of attention.

Liz: I feel like B'Elanna's story succeeds because she's a supporting character, and she's not the focus of attention the way Janeway and Seven are. And therefore, there's not the pressure riding on her, and not the level of attention, and they can just go through and quietly tell a good story, you know, the way they did with Worf in TNG. Worf's story back then was very -- pre-Deep Space Nine -- was very consistent and very well-told. I mean, you need to have tolerance for Klingon shit, but I'm a bit fond of Klingon bullshit.

So -- so we have not discussed the Doctor.

Anika: Oh, the Doctor. Well, he is barely a person in this first episode.

Liz: He's just Cranky Siri.

Anika: He's literally the program. He doesn't do anything new. He grows -- that's a character tha goes on quite the journey over Voyager, you know, it's kind of required of that character to grow in many ways.

Liz: But what's interesting is that he wasn't planned to be a funny character, and that was something that Robert Picardo brought to the role. And it almost leads to him taking over the series. Like, I find the Doctor very wearisome. And this argument that Seven of Nine takes over, when the Doctor is there every second episode. Seriously?

Anika: Yeah, Seven takes over in a way that, like, Tuvok, Chakotay -- B'Elanna's pretty -- like, B'Elanna's always second tier, that's where she exists. So she doesn't change. Tom arguably -- but Tom still gets to do all his Tom stuff.

But Harry, Chakotay and Tuvok, definitely, are sort of put in the shadows by Seven. You're absolutely correct, the Doctor has just as much character stuff. But he's been there all along, I guess. Like, you don't see it as a change, because what happens is his story doesn't go back the way that Tuvok's and Chakotay's -- he's not put in that box.

Liz: I think it frustrates me with the Doctor, whereas it doesn't with Seven, because I feel like, with Seven, they were doing something genuinely revolutionary in terms of the character and the way her story was written. And it obviously built on a lot of great writing from other science fiction series.

But Seven was new, and the Doctor is just, you know, mash up Data with McCoy and you've got the holographic doctor.

Anika: I am interested that you said that he wasn't meant to be funny, because I can't actually imagine him as not funny.

Liz: No, I know!

Anika: Like, what even would that be? That would literally be like, you know, Siri talking to me. That's not interesting.

Liz: I get the impression that he was basically conceived as Medical Siri. And I guess because it was the '90s and we didn't have Siri, then no one realized how boring that concept would be. And I think the idea always was that he would grow -- go on this journey of personhood, but it's Robert Picardo, who made it a journey of comedy personhood.

Anika: I like it. I like that. I can't imagine it another way.

I don't love the Doctor, I think I agree with you that it's just sort of tired. It's like, we did Odo, we did Data, we did Spock. And Seven brings something different to those same tropes, whereas the Doctor doesn't, really.

The Doctor is basically Data again, not the same personality, but it's sort of the same idea. He's also put on trial to prove that he exists, and he's also used in poor ways. I like the Doctor-centric episodes that aren't about his identity, but are more about how his identity fits into his community.

Liz: Yes, no, that makes sense. And, yeah, I don't dislike the Doctor. I just get tired of him by the end of season seven.

Anika: I mean, I think that's fair. I think that he also has a harsh personality.

Liz: Yeah, a little goes a long way. And honestly, I don't think he's a very good doctor. So ... he's not ... yeah.

Anika: I wouldn't want Siri to be my doctor either.

Liz: No, and we know that he was programmed by one of the biggest creeps in Starfleet.

Anika: Yes!

Liz: And I'm not even talking about Reginald Barclay!

Anika: Well, yeah, it's kind of amazing that he is a nice person at all, really, when you think about it?

Liz: Sheer luck, and also the influence of Kes.

Anika: Yeah, I was gonna say, it's the people. And that's why those are the more interesting episodes. Because someone building an identity is not as interesting as someone becoming more of themselves because of the interactions that they're having.

Liz: Right, yes.

So your note here is, "Janeway's choice. If this were a Cardassian ship, we'd be home now. If this were a Klingon ship, we'd be home now. If this were a Vulcan ship, we'd be home now. Why are humans?"

Anika: I'm just saying.

Liz: Which brings me to my thought, like, we don't see Seska in this episode, but I have to think that the whole Caretaker shenanigans -- it's just a very bad day for her. She's thrown to the other side of the galaxy, she's abducted, she's put through tests.

Then it turns out that Tuvok was a spy, and she didn't even notice, and that it has to be embarrassing, even though he didn't notice her, so at least they're even.

And then this Starfleet captain goes and traps them on the other side of the galaxy, and she has to wear a Starfleet uniform, and she's going to be on this ship for seventy years pretending to be a Bajoran?

Anika: Seska's worst day ever.

Liz: Uh, yeah, basically.

Anika: But, yeah, so obviously I was quoting Seska in the "If this were a Cardassian ship, we'd be home now." One of the best lines, best episodes? Yes. But, one hundred percent, Klingons and Vulcans would also not have done this. And probably Andorians. It's pretty much very human to do this.

Liz: It is. And I think it reflects the way that we have a strong sense of justice and decency and also a dash of paternalism.

Anika: I guess it's also a super American choice?

Liz: That brings me to my note here, "the Social Security controversy", because this episode ends with Janeway telling the Caretaker that, you know, children have to grow up and the Ocampa have to learn to stand on their own feet.

And a lot of -- this aired around the time that Bill Clinton was tipping a lot of people off Social Security, and a lot of left-wing and liberal viewers interpreted this episode as having a subtext -- basically an anti-Social Security subtext.

And it's interesting, because all through the series, Voyager does sort of have this odd, low-key reactionary tendency. You know, refugees are a bit scary. These former slaves are scary, and not white, and all of that stuff. And it's really built into the pilot.

Anika: Yeah, it's definitely there. And, you know, Voyager is my Trek, I guess, as you say.

Liz: And that's how we can criticize it.

Anika: And that's how we can criticize it, right. And I am very critical all the time.

Liz: Yeah.

Anika: Of many of the things both within the storylines, and things that happened behind the scenes and outside of -- and like, why things happened the way they did, and the storylines and stuff like that, all of that.

I can't watch an episode without thinking about the different things, and the way that I saw it when, again, I was a very young adult (in terms of science, not an adult at all) and yet, being asked to make decisions that they kept saying would affect my whole life. "Where do you want to go to college? What do you want to major in? What are you going to do with your life?" You know, and it's like, I don't know.

Liz: "I'm a kid, man."

Anika: And Voyager was my show at that time. And I was also -- like, I've mentioned before, on various places, I went through a -- I was -- I had a mental breakdown during Voyager. As Voyager ended, within six months after Voyager ended, I was hospitalised. So it I think it was even -- because -- if it ended in May that -- yeah, it was like, less than.

So it's just really -- I was becoming a person when Voyager happened, and on the backside of it, on the other end, when it was over. And I literally named myself after Seven of Nine. So when I say that Voyager shaped my personhood, I mean, it literally. Watching this show, at that time of my life, it shaped how I think, and how I feel, and how I see. And that's why I can look back on it without my rose colored glasses, and say, Whoo, that's really rough.

And I'm on Tuvok's side, whenTuvok was like, "This is not our job. We are, we are -- like, that guy was overinvested in this nonsense, and you're just -- you're just continuing that, and you have even less reason to be doing this."

That's why I love Seska so much. That's why I'm always talking about Seska, because Seska's the one who's pointing at it and saying, "This is -- like, letting the Kazon do whatever they want is a wrong decision. But what you're doing is also a wrong decision." And--

Liz: I don't think Janeway is necessarily wrong. I think the Kazon would have probably wiped out the Ocampa if they were left to their own devices. I think, if you can prevent a genocide, then you should do so.

Anika: Everything I know about the Kazon ... I don't think that they could--

Liz: You don't think they're capable?

Anika: 'Cos there were two ships.

Liz: Yeah, that's true.

Anika: Like how would -- I don't see people who have to steal water being able to take out the Ocampa.

Like, the Ocampa not being able to defend themselves is a problem, that is true, the Ocampa not being able to leave their planet. But I guess my point is that the Caretaker is the one who put them in that position.

Liz: Right.

Anika: And Janeway still, like -- yeah, they blow up the array and the two Kazon ships, but then they still leave. Like, the Ocampa are still hanging out on their planet, right?

Liz: And they don't even know about the danger. They don't even know that the Caretaker is dying.

Anika: So I don't see how Voyager taking care of this one threat, and then bouncing, is actually better for the Ocampa.

Liz: It's so typical of '90s Trek.

Anika: I guess there's no right choice here is the real -- the real answer is, there's no good choice, and so I'm fine with Janeway's choice. I just think--

Liz: As opposed to killing Tuvix, which is the only right choice.

Anika: I'm just saying that the idea -- like, Janeway's saviorhood is super -- you can tell that her dad was an admiral, you can tell that she lives and breathes Starfleet. And that's interesting, and that's good, and that makes her a great character. I just am that person who says, also Starfleet can be bad sometimes.

Liz: Yes. And also, I think that if this had been a Next Generation episode, there would have been a meeting about it where everyone argues the rights and wrongs of destroying the array and incorporating the Maquis into the crew. But because they're so set on establishing Janeway as a, quote unquote, strong female character, there was no room for that consultation. She needed to make that decision or else they thought it might be sexist, I guess?

Anika: I guess? She just comes off as like --

Liz: High handed.

Anika: Yeah. It's just, literally Tuvok is like, "Hey, maybe let's not do that." And she's like, "No, I'm gonna do that." And then--

Liz: I'm sorry. When Tuvok speaks, you should listen.

Anika: Right?

I mean, the truth is, in more than one episode, Tuvok, like -- in the teaser, Tuvok will say something, and then it'll turn out to be correct. And the entire episode would not have happened if we just listened to Tuvok.

Liz: See, this is why Tuvok needs to join the cast of Star Trek: Picard. Like, maybe their episodes would be shorter, but they will have a much easier time getting things done.

Anika: They also need an adult.

Liz: And obviously Picard is not -- you know, he's the cool granddad.

Anika: But yeah, so I just think it's very human. It's very American. It's very, it's very '90s, as you say. Absolutely. Like that is -- and it's interesting to look at it from our lens of now, to look back and think about how the entire series is based on this one decision.

Liz: Yeah. I don't think I know enough to really say this with any intelligence, but I'm not going to let that stop me! It sort of highlights the difference between liberalism and leftism? And I think Voyager thinks it's very liberal, and is actually very centrist.

Anika: Right, which is what liberalism is.

Liz: And that is so 1990s. This is Clinton-era Star Trek.

Anika: Very much so.

Liz: Yeah.

Anika: Well, that was fun!

Liz: We have talked about "Caretaker" for about as long as "Caretaker" runs. I'm so proud of us!

Anika: Whoops! Um, before we wrap up, I have one thing I wanted to say.

Liz: Yes?

Anika: This aired in 1995.

Liz: Oh, shit!

Anika: So it's actually the 26th anniversary.

Liz: Oh, that's so interesting!

Anika: But since 2020 was--

Liz: 2020?

Anika: --you know, let's just skip over that, we can call it the 25th.

Liz: 25th with an asterisk. Yeah, that makes sense, because I was born in '82. So I was thirteen in the summer of '95. Cool. Okay. I'm really glad that we got this sorted out.

Anika: I was like, okay, when did I graduate? I was trying to figure out exactly how old I was. And so yeah, so I looked up the air date and, yeah.

Liz: My very first memory of being aware of Voyager was a column about Genevieve Bujold quitting the role. And I had a scrapbook where I cut out and saved any Star Trek related articles that happened to cross my path. I saved this article because it was basically, overworked, underpaid journalist thinks that being a starship captain sounds much easier and doesn't know what Bujold was complaining about.

What I took from that column at age about twelve is, Ooooh, another Star Trek, and this one has a lady captain! I don't know if I can ship a lady captain because any of the crew will be subordinate to her in rank. Oh, well, I'll watch it anyway, and I'll probably like it. Anyway, when's seaQuest on?

And look where we are now.

Anika: That's so funny.

Liz: I think I was a weirdly sexist little kid, actually.

Anyway, thank you for listening to Antimatter Pod. You can find our show notes at antimatterpod.tumblr.com, including links to our social media and credits for our theme music.

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