#yes because some fanders refuse to acknowledge any of it

[ts-critsfander]

I have seen multiple posts from fanders saying "Thomas doesn't deserve all the hate." To which I have to say-GET A GRIP AND ACTUALLY LEARN WHAT HE'S DONE.

Underpaid Brei

Brei was the main person who designed merch yet received no royalties until recently. To quote her "royalties were something I requested for several years while working there and was consistently told no." Thomas tried to cover the whole thing up and just said she wasn't going to be on the team anymore. As of now he hasn't addressed this.

Refuses to Communicate

Thomas has delayed the Sanders Sides finale for years now. He said it would come out in 2023 and the public received 0 updates until December 27th where he said the year just didn't work out for him. Even now the non finale episode has been delayed for months now and only Patreon receives updates that aren't even regular. They just drop at random dates weeks or months apart.

Sent Fans After People

On numerous occasions Thomas has responded to critiques from random accounts. On multiple occasions he's directly responded to people on X just saying they miss Sanders Sides or posts that aren't even critiques. A couple of months ago he posted a private message from a person on Instagram of them asking something along the lines of "When are you gonna make more Sanders Sides?". Since he posted a screenshot of said message and didn't hide their username in any capacity he made it easy for fans to find their account and DM them. Fanders have a history of sending death threats.

These points aren't just mindless hate. Brei deserved to be properly paid, fans deserve transparently ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY PAY FOR UPDATES/CONTENT, and people deserve to speak their mind without fear of being targeted by a large creator and their fanbase. Don't get me wrong I've seen posts that are just hating or meaningless nitpicking but there's genuine things Thomas deserves to be called out for and held accountable for. He's not your innocent white boy content creator, he's an almost 40 year old man who continues to mistreat people around him no matter their proximity.

[ironwoman359]

Edit: imma just keep reblogging this everytime I feel like it’s needed. Please consider reading and then reblogging.

You don’t have to be particularly interested in my sides (called traits cuz alliteration) to get something out of this, I think. Thanks 💜

(Taylor’s Traits)

Ellie (Sentiment): Guys, I think we should do something. 

Claire (Preservation): Uhh.....bad idea, Ellie. 

Dael (Logic): Wait, what are you talking about.

Ellie: Look at everyone! They’re upset! They’re fighting, some of them! We should do something! 

Claire: Yeah, great idea, weigh in on an issue that we haven’t seen actually unfold in and of itself, without all the facts or a clear idea of when this started.

Ellie: But Claire–

Claire: Not to mention, why should people listen to us? There are thousands of people in this fandom, why would they listen to what we have to say? 

Dael: Well, statistically speaking, they have in the past. 

Ellie: Yeah, we have a voice here! We should use it to do good somehow! 

Claire: Ok, maybe, but we STILL don’t know exactly how this all started happening, we’ve been offline most of the day and we came back on to this!

Dael: What exactly is happening?

Ellie: Character discourse in the fanders. 

Dael: Oh sh*t. 

Claire: Yeah, that’s what I said. 

Dael: Well, if we don’t have all the facts, wouldn’t it be prudent to go back through the tag and try to discover how this began?

Claire: That’s a great idea, if you want to make Ellie cry. They’re saying bad stuff about Patton. 

Dael: ....they’re what? 

Claire: Some people don’t like how he was acting in the newest video. Several are just calmly discussing and theorizing, of course, but you know how the internet can get. 

Dael: Oh my– this is why cancel culture is such a problem, I swear–

Ellie: So yeah, we have to do something! 

Claire: I still think it’s better to stay OUT of it! 

Dael: I mean...there’s so many arguments that can and should be made....I don’t even know where to begin. 

Leah (Insecurity): Plus if you make them, either A: nobody will read them, or B: people will hate that you made them and be mad that you tried to tell them how to feel. 

Ellie: Hi, Leah.

Dael: When did I say I was going to tell them how to feel? One of the arguments I was going to make was that everyone’s feelings about something like this are going to be different, based on their own biases and experiences, and that it’s important to acknowledge those feelings when approaching another side in debate. People are not inherently “right” or “wrong” for how they interpret Patton’s actions in a video. 

Leah: Yeah, but people might get upset that we’re trying to weigh in. You know what some people think of “bigger blogs,” what if they think we’re trying to overstep our boundaries?

Claire: This is why we should just do nothing, hide away until it all blows over...or never come out of hiding at all, that’s good too...

Ellie: Okay, Leah, come over here by me, you can’t get that close to Claire, you know what happens. 

Leah: whatever

Dael: I...look. There’s so much to unpack here, I don’t even know where to start...

Ariyana (Creativity): Uhhhh, how about with the fact that, while the accusations some have laid at Patton’s feet have some merit, literally ALL of Thomas’s sides have had times where their actions were less than perfect, and that while they all wish what is best for Thomas, they are each often misguided or mistaken in what the best is, and NONE of them can be said to be 100% innocent? 

Dael: Ari! When did you...you know what, you have a point. From Roman’s poor past treatment of Virgil and bravado to Virgil’s own misguided attempts at being listened to with fear tactics, to Logan’s refusal to compromise or listen to other ideas and Patton’s repression of negative emotions, none of the sides can claim to be as innocent as we would often like them to believe. 

Ellie: Well...that’s part of the problem too though. Remember the last few videos? A lot of people weren’t happy with Logan...and a lot of shade was thrown his way. 

Dael: Ah, I remember hearing that something similar happened to Roman between the first and second part of Virgil’s redemption arc. Not to mention Deceit’s first appearance. So what’s the problem then? Besides, of course, that this is happening at all. 

Claire: Some people have asked for #patton negativity to be tagged, and some people (I think?) are upset that because it’s Patton, people are protesting the discourse and asking for tags when it was Logan under fire, nothing like that happened?

Dael: ....is there any validity to that claim?

Claire: I dunno man, I try to steer us away from discourse usually. I don’t know what it was like last time! And I don’t even know that much of what it’s like now! But people are getting hate anons again and it just...

Ellie: It’s a bad time. 

Dael: Oh. Well...isn’t this better then?

Claire: What do you mean?

Dael: If we as a fandom made mistakes with how we handled discourse in the past, then asking for #patton negativity, or indeed, any #side negativity, to be tagged is less about favoring Patton over other sides or saying that you’re allowed to post negative opinions about the other sides and not Patton, and MORE about us growing as a fandom. We’re doing better now than we were in the past. There’s a difference between hypocrisy and growth. 

Ellie: Oh....well, what about what they’re actually saying about Patton?

Dael: I feel as though we as a fandom have already covered this subject, with the discourse surrounding Deceit? You can have whatever opinions you like about the character. You can interpret his actions in the new video as justified, as manipulative, as morally correct or incorrect. Any of those interpretations are fine, valid, and most are possible within canon. But when discussing/portraying those interpretations, it is best to tag appropriately so that people looking for that content can find it and people looking to avoid that content can do so. We also had the conversation about how you do not get to dictate what other people find upsetting. Indeed, the reason we haven’t looked into more details on this is because intentionally looking for negative comments about Patton would upset you, is that correct, Ellie?

Ellie: Yes, it is. I don’t like the idea of Patton being bad. 

Ariyana: Well, this is the thing. Patton being wrong or making a mistake is not the same as him being bad. Just like Deceit having some good points is not the same as him being good. Each character, each person, has the capability for good and bad. And if you ask me, this dichotomy is both what Deceit was trying to get Character!Thomas to understand and what Actual!Thomas is planning on discussing next in the series, that morality is rarely so black and white. THIS is why, as you said, Dael, cancel culture is such a problem. We must allow people to grow, and we must allow them to make mistakes, and then be forgiven. 

Dael: Exactly, thank you Ariyana. I couldn’t put it better myself. 

Ariyana: Well good, then that means we can wrap this up and hit the hay. I’m tired! Let’s go, Leah. No, don’t you mutter under your breath, it’s going to be fine. Posting this is a good idea, trust me. 

Ellie: Thanks, Dael. 

Dael: Glad to be of assistance. Are you two going to be alright now?

Claire: I think so, yeah. Talking about it always helps. I just hope the fanders are gonna be okay...

Dael: Well, if you recall other times the, ah, FamILY has encountered hardship in the past, they have always overcome it together. And I have seen no evidence to suggest that we should stop believing in them now. 

Claire: Yeah...you’re right, Dael. Thanks. G’night!

Dael: Goodnight Claire, goodnight Ellie. 

Ellie: Night guys! Love you! 

And I love you too, all you fanders out there. Hang tight. We’ll get through this the way we always do. As a famILY. <3

[sanders-specs]

Sander Sides’s Fatal Flaws (a character analysis)

So I was doing some thinking about characters and their fatal flaws. Every character has one. Heck, every human has one (or more). I always like to think of what my character’s fatal flaw is, since that’s usually a pretty good place to start when figuring out their weaknesses. The character in question was Patton, though my Patton in one of my fics. This of course got me thinking of all of the Sides’s -- not the “fanon” (for lack of a better word) version but the characters in the videos -- fatal flaws. 

Now, these might seem and probably are extremely obvious. Usually, from what I’ve seen, these types of character traits are usually just seen as weaknesses or, well, flaws. No character is perfect after all. But in this case, this would be the flaw that, in a life or death situation, would end up being a huge obstacle that could potentially lead to the latter (hence the word fatal in the title). 

A few disclaimers before I get into it: I’m going to be looking at the Sides individually as characters, not as the extension of a person or how it affects Thomas. Some comparisons to each other are inevitable, however. Also, I will do my best to look only at the canon content and not delve into my own personal headcanons or the general view of how the Fanders see the sides. If I stray from that at any point, I apologize. Deceit will not be on this list, mostly because he’s only been in one video, plus the split second he showed up in another. Not much I can do there, I’d need to see more of his character. Lastly, this is just my interpretation. If you disagree or have a different idea, please add on! I’m all for a good debate, and this is just coming from one mind after all. 

Everything else will be under the cut because this is already way too long. 

What is a Fatal Flaw? According to Dictionary.com, a fatal (or tragic) flaw is  a character defect that causes the downfall of the protagonist of a tragedy. You usually see it used in the context of Greek epics. Odysseus, for example, was extremely prideful (it’s probably the most common fatal flaw...and yes it’s on the list). It was his pride that caused him so many set backs in getting home after the Trojan War. Penelope's, you could argue, was her faithfulness (remember, we’re not looking at good vs. bad traits here. A lot of these can have double meaning). 

Okay now let’s look at the sides, starting with no other than Princey himself: 

Roman: Pride but with ego. I went back and forth a lot with Roman. His arrogance, cockiness, and stubbornness are not to be ignored, but I think all of those stem from his pride. He wants to be the best, he wants to believe that his ideas are top notch. He doesn’t like to be proven wrong, one of the reasons he and Logan butt heads so much. He’s afraid of people being better than him, of not being good enough. If you look at his argument in Why Do We Get Out Of Bed In The Morning, he’s willing to do anything to reach his goals, to prove himself. In Am I Creative? he struggles with accepting help from others, or admitting that he needed help at all. If anything (and this is more speculation than anything) he wanted the others there to show off, only to be proven that he couldn’t even do that. Everything from the Mind Palace to the Christmas sweaters, he doesn’t like to admit that Patton had a hand in those. He wants to take most of the credit. You could even argue that he’s where Thomas’s pride comes from, though part of that might also be held in another side. And in a fight? he’d have to be the one to win, no matter the costs (again, see his argument in Why Do We Get Out of Bed. why wouldn’t he get reinforcements, Logan? Pride). 

Virgil: Negativity. Kind of obvious, I know. Anxiety makes us think thorough the worst possible scenarios, it can make it hard to look on the bright side of things. Heck, one negative thought for some of us can lead to a downward spiral. It’s exactly that makes him leave in Accepting Anxiety. He was convinced that he wasn’t wanted or needed, so he left. In the Christmas video, he refuses to sing, even knowing how hard Roman worked on it. He has to point out every flaw in Roman’s plans in Am I Creative? or counteracting Patton’s ideas of getting older in Growing Up. He makes the others doubt themselves. Even after Accepting Anxiety pt. 1 and 2 he constantly makes negative comments. You can say it’s his job, and yeah it’s just his character, but that doesn’t dismiss the fact that Virgil is a very negative character. all of his self doubt, smartass comments, and even the anxiety itself all comes from this negative aspect of his. In a fight he wouldn’t be able to focus on anything other than everything going wrong. Also, yeah, I haven’t forgotten about My Negative Thinking. Kinda drives this entire point home. 

(disclaimer: I’m not trying to say here that if all of us with anxiety just thought positively that it would magically make our anxiety go away. I know that that can be very very hard. But you know, Patton’s positivity rivals Virgil’s negativity, so there’s a reason they work well together. Also remember that Logan’s counter points in his video with Virgil are nothing to be ignored) 

Patton: Forced Positivity. Now before i get into it, I’d like to acknowledge that i realize this has been addressed a bit in the videos, however we haven’t really gotten to see Patton post his arc that much yet, so I really only have so much to work with. Anyway, let’s get into it. We’ve all seen it, we’ve all noticed it. Patton is excessively positive. Almost annoyingly so. He might point out a flaw here or there, but he does it with a smile on his face. He constantly tries to get Virgil to look on the bright side of things, and makes light of things in serious situations. As we’ve seen from Moving On, focusing positively on one thing but ignoring the negative aspects of another isn’t the healthiest thing in the world. Even when he’s clearly being ridiculed from one of the others, he just smiles and lets them instead of making them stop. In Growing Up, his views on the subject are proved to be excessive and not serious enough for the age Thomas is. It’s likely because of this that the others (namely Roman and Logan, though Virgil isn’t innocent either) don’t take him all that seriously. In a fight, it wouldn’t be physically hindering, but mentally. It’s incredibly hard to keep a positive outlook when things are at the worse, and it’s mentally taxing, especially if you’re just trying to ignore the problem like Patton tends to do. 

Logan: Pride but with knowledge. Logan very much wants to be the smartest person in the room. He wants to have all the facts, all the answers. If he could get through all of Thomas’s dilemmas himself, he would. I’d say he almost begrudgingly calls on the others for their perspectives. He has to be right, all the time, and he hates it when he’s wrong (see: Losing My Motivation and the Moving On videos). Even when he’s wrong, he has to be right about the solution (again, Moving On). One of the reasons the argument between him and Roman got so heated was because they were both too prideful to concede any kind of point to the other. Each of their perspectives had to be the only right one. Neither of them - even Logan, the actual embodiment of Logic - could let the other “win” in any way, shape, or form. In Accepting Anxiety pt 2, as the anxiety for the other sides were getting higher and higher, Logan still had to get his point across, still prove that he knew exactly what was going on and what they needed to do to fix it. Put in a situation where he needed to put his hubris aside, i don’t think he could. Especially if it was against something challenging his knowledge. Just think about how upset he got when the others were ignoring him and dismissing his logical thinking in Moving On. He straight up left the scene, too annoyed and frustrated to stay. 

Wow! That went on far longer than I thought it would. I feel like this also shows just how well the Sides work together. Since they ARE the extensions of a person, the fact that they all have some similar fatal flaws doesn’t surprise me. They all work to balance each other out, which is the beauty of Sanders Sides, since we get to see just how one might balance so many different aspects of themselves. 

Again, this is just my interpretation. It’s okay if you disagree with me. And hey, if you want to add on something or counteract any of my points, go ahead! I wrote this mainly from memory of the sides in the videos, though i did have to double check some things, so this is far from a perfect analysis. 

I hope you all have a lovely day! 

[lovelivingmydreams]

Paper Flowers: Assumptions

People make snap judgements all the time. About fictional characters as well as the people in their lives. It gets dangerous however when you assume your perception is the truth.

“Hello all you Fanders out there!” the voice over of DarkStarlight sounds through your speaker as the screen shows the title card of their series Fanders illustrated. The concept is simple enough. They talk about things from Thomas’ content or the fan community they liked while showing speeddraws based on it. It’s really fun to see.

“So a while ago I made this drawing based on the names we picked for the Prince’s nemesis.”

The image changes to a drawing of two versions of the character standing back to back. The dark, mischievious Marcus against a dark red background, and the awkward blushy Kevin against a lighter blue, the collors mixing to purple in the center.

“And the comments have been wild!” A blank canvas is shown as they start sketching.

“There were several theories about how these two boys could be one and the same.

The theory I want to draw today is a cute one. So CatPrincess suggested Marcus is an act Kevin puts up to help the prince. Kevin, according to her, is a staff member of the palace. And when the Prince got old enough to start looking for a princess, he needed an excuse, since he’s gay or just not really interested in romance. He never really was invested in any princesses in the vines after all. He’s had the most chemistry with males. Prince is gay confirmed.”

You chuckle. And shake your head. This fandom is wild. You just hope the characters can make a transition to youtube. It seems like Vine’s time is really coming to an end.

“Anyway, so whether the prince knows it or not CatPrincesss didn’t say, but Kevin ends up disguising himself as a villain so Prince can say he’s busy defending the realm and that he can’t pursue any Princesses until the villain is defeated. I really like the idea of Prince and Kevin having little inside jokes and grinning at each other secretly while Kevin tends to the family during dinner as they hear the king and queen complain about the villain. So. What do you think?”

And just like that the drawing is done. It’s Prince and a formally dressed Kevin glancing at each other with subtle smirks while behind them their silhouettes are crossing swords.

You like and share the video before checking in on tumblr, you still have some time to kill before dinner.

 “I don’t see why we even bother still making vines every day. We’re finished, it’s over,” Virgil muttered as he paced the floor of the common area. He really hated being the barer of bad news, but no one was coming to terms with this simple fact.

“We have sworn to entertain the fanders, and it is not over until the fat lady sings,” Roman explained calmly from his spot, draped over the couch, pretending to be more interested in his notes for the ultimate storytime tour.

The announcement had taken the internet by storm and even Virgil was excited, though he never showed that to the others. He couldn’t leave his room for five days because he couldn’t stop ‘sparkling’ as Roman had come to call his excited look. Just in his head though, he was fairly sure Virgil wouldn’t appreciate it.

“What are we going to do after!?” Virgil insisted.

“We could look for a real job?” Logan suggested though he wasn’t very hopeful.

Virgil was nodding to himself, that was an option he supposed.

“We could make more scripted youtube video’s? People have been commenting they wished they could see more of our characters than six second skits?” Patton suggested.

“Brilliant idea Padre!” Roman exclaimed as he sat up and started skribling.

“We could make a series about the dad and teacher! Liam, Fiona and Gavin might like participating… Oh, and we could make marvelous stories about the prince… Idea!!!!”

He jumped up and made a gesture towards all of them. “We could make a series about us!” he declared proudly. “The fanders want to know more about Thomas, what better way to talk about that than by showing them who we are!?”

Patton was clapping excitedly while Logan and Virgil seemed apprehensive.

“Oh, that sounds so fun!!!” the fatherly side cheered.

“I don’t know,” Virgil objected. “It feels too exposed.”

“Indeed, we are a very personal part of Thomas. We should not be shown to the world so carelessly,” Logan agreed, mostly opposed to being displayed as a source of entertainment for others.

“We don’t have to go all in right away. Thomas can start with acting like our vine counterparts and see how the fanders react and if they like the idea we slowly but surely let our real selves shine through. Little steps,” Roman suggested.

Logan cocked his head. “That was, a very well thought out solution…” he admitted. It was odd. When had this started? Roman usually just spat out ideas and took any criticism as a personal offence. When did he start taking feedback into consideration?

Roman gasped and brought a hand to his heart in offence. “Don’t sound so surprised!” he huffed.

“I don’t know…” Virgil said slowly. The fanders liked his character… But that guy wasn’t literal anxiety.

Roman sighed dramatically. “Tell you what. I draft up some ideas. And after the tour we can revisit the subject. Vine won’t disappear overnight,” he reasoned.

Logan and Patton nodded in agreement. “Fine,” Virgil relented before pulling his hoodie over his head and stalking off.

Patton frowned. “He’s never happy is he?” he muttered sadly. Roman bit back his reaction. Patton was both wrong and right. This part of Virgil couldn’t be happy. But Roman knew of other parts that could be the happiest out of all of them. Happier than even Patton could ever hope being.

“Well who’s fault is that?” A voice drawled from the door opening. Roman automatically drew his sword while Patton and Logan reflexively moved to stand a little more behind him.

“Such a warm reception, I’m so touched,” Deceit said, hand on his heart, a sarcastic sting to his voice and a roll of his eyes.

"Well," Roman huffed as he put away his sword. "Maybe if you didn't apparate in dark corners for no good reason we wouldn't assume an attack was imminent. You are lucky you just missed anxiety, he might not have been able yo hold himself back." Realy what was that snake thinking?

"Thanks for the concern Roman, but other than you three, I know how to handle him."

Roman once more bit his tongue. Keeping his promise not to reveal their bond has never been so hard. This particular side was much more likely to catch him evading and omitting.

He rolled his eyes dramatically and crossed his arms in front of him. "Is there anything you needed Deceit?" Patton asked as he stepped forward laying a soothing hand on Roman's arm.

"Just checking in. And I must say I am not impressed. Morality I had hoped you'd put in a little more effort to make Anxiety comfortable up here. At this rate I might have to take him back with me." Roman could feel Patton cringe at that. That's it. Virgil's friend or not, Roman would not let him upset his family.

“Oh drop it scaleface. Empty threats will only go so far,” he said with a hand on his hip and a roll of his eye.

“Who says they’re empty?” Deceit drawled, studying his nails. “The whole reason Anxiety came up here was to reduce his stress, but if you all just keep making him unhappy, what is the point?” Deceit wondered calmly, though Roman could see there was a vague annoyed pull at his eyes. He clearly did not like being questioned.

“If he really was as unhappy as you imply, then why hasn’t he gone back to you and Remus who supposedly know how to ‘handle him’ so much better?” There was a mild flinch in Deceit’s posture, making Roman wondered if he accidently hit a nerve somehow.

“Just say what you came here for, Deceit. We all have other things to do.” Because deceit was rarely straightforward. Virgil hadn’t told him much about living down there, but that much he’d learned.

Janus just huffed and left.

“Charming as always!” Roman huffed as he combed his fingers through his hair.. He let out a sigh and dropped his hand before looking down at Patton.

“Are you alright Padre?” he wondered.

“I… Yes actually. Thank you Roman…” Roman wanted to bid the two bespectacled sides a good day and start writing on the new series and finish of his ideas for the tour, but the he noticed Patton was biting his lip nervously and so he waited.

“Do you really think… he’s not going to take Anxiety back is he?”

Roman smiled warmly down at Patton before turning to Logan. “Logan, could Thomas ‘forget about anxiety’ at this point?” he asked.

Logan cocked his head confused. “No, denying Anxiety is a part of Thomas, the way Thomas refused to acknowledge his presence in the past, is not possible. Deceit does not have the power to force such a change. Only if the three of us were to agree to it, could something like that be accomplished. And I do not intent to participate in such endeavor,” Logan stated. Patton relaxed at that.

“And I suppose I have gotten used to our war of wits. I shan’t permit him to leave until I reign victorious! Speaking of victory! I’m off writing a script so brilliant the fanders will demand more!”

And with that he finally did make his exit.

He returned to his room and immediately started on his projects. He was not sure what Deceit was trying to accomplish, but it would not deter him from his mission.

In the commons Logan has left as well and Patton his tidying up. Trying not to let Deceit’s words get to him… Who’s fault was it? His? Roman’s? Was there another thing he was missing?

At the border of the conscious mind Janus was beyond annoyed. It didn’t really matter. The idea of failure was planted, and if he knew the lights at all it’s that they would try harder to make Virgil feel comfortable, if only to prove him wrong. Virgil would not like that Janus had gotten involved, but he was worried. How couldn’t he be? Over the past few month’s Virgil had been acting off. Sure he was being more sociable, but after every interaction he was so rained he more or less disappeared. That was the only explanation Janus had for the times he’d visited to make sure he was alright and find the room empty. He hadn’t brought it up with Virgil, since doing so would most likely end up being more about him entering Virgil’s room without permission rather than an actual explanation.

And it didn’t really matter. Janus knew one thing with unwavering certainty.

If the lights didn’t get their act together, they might lose him.

Next: momceit