#yeah if i have to add graystripe on this (because i can)

[waffultaim]

Well I'm not so dumbfounded on Longtail as a character tbh but I think him being the mentor of Bramblepaw instead of Fireheart could have been a good add to his character development.

.

.

Imagine that when Bluestar is about to speak of who will be Bramblepaw mentor, a voice rises in the crowd interrupting the ceremony, surprised Fireheart looks at the origin of the voice just to find that is Longtail the cause of it and not so far away Goldenflower is also there as well, looking at both leader and deputy...

do you see my vision?

[redux-iterum]

Hey Dullard! I was the anon who speculated the clans didn't have a plan set in place after temporarily exiling their clanmate in the event they were severely injured- the fact that Speckletail was more concerned about how the code still isolated him as he was actively bleeding out says it all. Sure, she does still go off to tell Bluestar what happened and was worried about him, but that still stuck out to me. Clan culture is actually compelling in how frustrating it is here, and how cats worship the same laws that would quite literally lead to the clanmates they care about (or should still care about) being dead- and for what? Falling in love? As apposed to canon, where it's frustrating in the sense that because Moth Flight couldn't raise her children by herself while being a medicine cat, clearly that means no medicine cats can ever have families of their own again- starting with every other medicine cat in her generation. Or how in canon, cats who are hurt by the code just double down on it- NOT to explore say, their desperation to not believe the code they believed in since kithood doesn't want them to exist, or their forbidden kits to exist and that it's fine if they just stay a good warrior. Or how cats like Tigerstar abuse the code..but is it abusing the code if half-clan cats were never protected to begin with, and nobody tried to add protections for them after the horrors Stormfur, Feathertail, and Mistyfoot faced, and the sacrifice Stonefur made? Or Hollyleaf (my beloved) came back from the tunnels and the same code that led her to murdering Ashfur, that declares her and her brothers illegal, led to her destroying her adoptive and bio mother's reputations? Yeah all of that is fine because she believes in the code, who cares if it'd be interesting seeing her question it in her self imposed exile or something, or even think it was unfair for Leafpool to be denied to chance to raise her own children, or for Squirrelflight to be shamed for the crime of protecting her sister. Rambling aside, I'm waiting eagerly for the next few chapters. I'm not excepting ThunderClan to adopt Fireheart's questioning of the code overnight..but I am looking forwards to how they might interact with Graystripe after what happened to him. :)

The code really did do its best to be fair and sensible when it started out. We see how well that went for the future generations.

[cagedcats]

The possible final part to Starkit’s Reduxify- this one is an odd one.

So this one is a combination of love interest, mentor and father. Weird huh? Let me give you the rundown real quick!

Starkit is made into Starpaw and apprenticed to Firestar, her great grandfather through Jayfeather. Her and Firestar… yeah it gets odd.

So Firestar thinks of how attractive she is. And then next chapter it is outright said- they’re mates. Not only is he in a relationship with his great-granddaughter, but also someone who was just apprenticed three days prior.

It’s weird!

Graystripe is the one who finds this out btw. Only because he wanted to become mates with Starpaw and she had to tell him the bad news.

Starpaw not sure how to handle all of this runs off and into Blackstar (who also confesses his love to her). She runs away again and runs into Jayfeather. Who is rather okay with his teenage daughter being courted by his grandfather and two other dudes triple her age.

If anything he’s happy about it because “people like you” and then tells her it’s her choice. She picks her great grandfather. She doesn’t get to tell him, because Hollyleaf and Tigerstar attacks and becomes leader a day after becoming a Warrior aaaaaaaaand Firestar leaves.

He joins ShadowClan and like his great granddaughter immediately becomes leader because Blackstar died. Graystripe is only mentioned three other times and Jayfeather is stuck in a state of dying and coming back to life for all of eternity.

Now that that’s over with, let’s get to the renames-

Firestar -> Morningspot OR Sparkstripe

He gets two for the reasoning of him leaving ShadowClan and becoming leader.

I’m not certain of whether someone from one Clan can leave to another and become leader. I mean we see with Yellowfang she can become a Seer, but a leader? I’m not 100% certain about.

I did ask and I got smacked with a plant fact. So there’s something we can sit and squint for in the upcoming arcs!

Now Firestar like everyone else isn’t a character. He’s there to make Starkit feel good, and be a supporting character. He can’t win a fight for his life, and is mostly just there. His most notable moments are being A) in a relationship with his great granddaughter (and an apprentice) despite Sandstorm being right there and B) leaving ThunderClan and joining up with ShadowClan

Now I did play with giving him -cloud. Because he does seem like a relatively chill guy. But then I remembered he got in a fight with someone because relationship drama.

He has no morals (he was in ShadowClan and was therefor ‘evil’ to the point of interacting with the antagonists), and he isn’t skilled. He’s a pelt based suffix warrior for sure.

So Morningspot (ShadowClan) and Sparkstripe (ThunderClan) for him.

Of course I’ll probably be going with just one of them. If Sparkstripe, he will be Sparkstar and for sure not in a relationship with Nightpaw. Morningspot though I’ll probably make more her age just to give a Easter egg to the weird relationship shenanigans prior. Though not weird this time.

Oh! But if I go with Sparkstripe I did play with the idea of making him, Waspdusk’s dad maybe? Or somehow related to her.

Greystripe -> Darkbelly

I almost didn’t add him because of how little he is seen. But I decided to anyway.

Greystripe is only seen twice. Once when asking out a literal child, then comforting Blackstar for being rejected a second time, and finally at the very end.

He is switched to Dark- because he is described as a dark grey cat in some cases, and because he is outright described as “funny” I can twist things and give him the -belly suffix.

Once again no relationship between him and Nightpaw/claw. Instead he will be her mentor.

Why? You ask, well it was stated that leaders rarely mentor apprentices. Too much going on. And unlike Bluestar, Sparkstar (or whatever other leader) doesn’t have to take responsibility for bringing in a random kid.

So to Darkbelly she goes. He was probably there to try and make her see the lighter things in life rather then take things so seriously.

Not that it worked, but he tried. And was probably relieved to be free of her once she was made into a Warrior.

Jayfeather -> Cuckoocloud

Now onto Starkit’s father! The medicine cat that is blatantly open about it. It’s brought up once about how cats don’t like it. And never seen or mentioned again.

Starkit Prophecy Jayfeather is the complete opposite of canon Jayfeather. He’s rather laid back, and is someone there to help Starkit in her times of need.

Helping calm her down, and give her advice on what to do.

He is killed by Hollyleaf, revives, and then lives out the rest of his life presumably. I think it’s stated that the death of his daughter was something he had to work to get over? But I can’t remember tbh.

Now I wanted him to be an outsider. First to make him stand out from the other ThunderClanners, but also I like the idea of him being the person really pulling the strings along. I wanted him to guide Nightpaw into being the cat she becomes.

To do away with the old, and replace it with something far different from typical Clan beliefs.

Yes, he’s a Seer. But whoever said it was StarClan he was communicating with? And with Nightpaw’s connection to StarClan, he should’ve picked her as his apprentice. But if she became leader? Well that just helps him move things along.

Of course that’s also partly because I gave him Cuckoo- as a replacement prefix. And of course with his very chill behavior and soothing nature with Starpaw/Nightpaw, the -cloud suffix was easy.

And that’s partly why he’s here. While Morningspot/Sparkstripe was her mentor in the original source, Darkbelly her mentor here- he is the secret teacher who is giving her secret lessons.

And the one she is the closest with.

-

Now this is probably the last one- and I may- MAY start writing down a plot line and writing. But that’s a very big maybe.

I may make one more reduxify of the story. But tbh i think I’ve ran through most of the cats? At least the ones who speak more then once or mentioned only one time. So this is probably the very last one.

But I may make a poll to decide between Morningspot or Sparkstripe. Or maybe just maybe keep both. But that’s unlikely.

[troutfur]

I think a lot about Brackenfur and how he feels about Graystripe. Canon really screws stuff up with Graystripe not dealing with any real consequences for his actions, and there should be tension.

The cat who was supposed to train you and help you grow into your community decided they were more interested across the border then you and his friend had to pick up the slack and cared more about your training then he did. I'd most certainly feel some type of way about it.

Brackenstar adds to the spice of the tension and the policies. Yeah, he's technically Fireheart and Graystripe's apprentice, but imagine he fully rejects Graystripe, and the three only find out about it because Graystripe brings it up, fully believing Firestar mentored Brackenstar.

It could add to the Firestar symbol as someone who tries to do right by others which could add onto the legacy. Brackenstar could speak fondly of Firestar as well.

Do the three's mentor's change? (Like Holly being mentored by Bracken in canon)

Yes, I think there should be a certain unspoken tension to it, particularly as Bracken has to assert himself in his position. I can see Graystripe trying to butter him up as he appeals to their connection, much too oblivious to really see Bracken has... complicated at best feelings towards him.

I do not want to move them around at the moment! I like Holly as Brackenstar's apprentice as a way to boost her ego (remember how it was said back in TPB how leaders typically only train their deputy's children?).

I think Lion as a peace offering to Ashfur is an interesting idea too. At present, since polyamory is default within my worldbuilding, what I have in mind for Ashfur is that both he and Bramble were too possessive to be a healthy throuple. But at least Bramble felt at least a little guilty about denying his kids a second pipfurr so he gives him an in into their life to be a father figure if he likes.

For Jay I'm batting ideas in my head. I like my concept of him training as a specialized hunter under Brook, but I also like the possibility of a joint Brightheart-Longtail mentorship which I think could have been a magnificent 3-way dynamic.

Going forward though I am certainly giving an eye to shuffling apprenticeship assignments to make them more nepotistic. I want them to serve to reinforce family connections between pfurr in order to increase this feeling I want to cultivate of intricate dynastic politicking and alliance making.

[bonefall]

Pre-tpb

Good choice with AdderSwift. They didn’t need another litter. It makes it even better when you think of Swiftpaw being named after Swiftbreeze.

Redtail and Spottedleaf being Rosetail’s kits is just chef’s kiss. It always did baffle me that Rosetail had no kits when it seemed like she would both from her personality and Bluestar’s prophecy.

Tawnyspots works better as Thrushpelt and Dappletail’s older bro.

Ah Robinwing and Fuzzypelt, the ones that ruin everything. I think letting them keep Dust would be fine, if only for the angst factor since they’re both gone at the start so it’s just him and Raven as orphans. With Frostfur, it might be interesting since Frostfur snaps at Ravenpaw due to Tigerclaw’s rumors, angst.

Featherwhisker should have kits. He and Sunstar aren’t related to literally anyone, with only parents to them. It’s a genetic waste that neither of them had kits.

I think Stonepelt and Weedwhisker could work as Willowpelt’s dads.

TPB shuffling:

Are Featherkit and Cricketkit now Graystripe/Darkstripe’s dead littermates or do they live?

Post-TNP fixes:

Yeah, working it with direct descendants works better.

I might be able to make a familyecho with this but we’ll see.

Thanks kindly! It was a lot of work, but aside from these last few details, I feel good about ThunderClan genetically now

And god please do let me know if you can make a functional tree out of this

Dustpelt and Frostfur

As much as I do like the idea of Frostfur snapping at her little brother (perhaps, even, because he never knew them and Tigerclaw convinces her he's been raised wrong), alas, Raven and Dust can't be siblings with Frostfur as a rule

That's because Dustpelt has Birchfall, who becomes mates with Whitewing, daughter of Brightheart. They're first cousins and it trips the buzzer on Rule 1.

Robin and Fuzzy can only keep one. I am leaning towards Dustpelt though- because the angst of Robin fostering so many kits but then dying before she could raise her own is delightfully angsty. Plus! I just like how Spiderleg looks a lot like her!

Featherwhisker and The Dads

Stonepelt and Weedwhisker are a great idea if only for their ship name being Stone/Weed. I will move mountains for this. Definitely going to have the old coots find Willowpelt in the woods and raise her together as a gay couple.

And on Featherwhisker, it absolutely was a genetic waste! Especially with how Feather seems so... odd and gossipy. I love his vibe, honestly. He seems like the sort of person who gets away with a lot while people are focusing on Goosefeather.

So he's probably going to be the secret father of Frostfur. I imagine they look alike anyway, and then I don't have to worry about any surprise cousins from her appallingly prolific litter

Who's the mother? Unsure. Featherwhisker might just have special kittypet friends he visits for a cup of catmint now and then.

Featherkit and Cricketkit

Featherkit is definitely Graystripe's littermate! I've really liked that headcanon ever since I saw it. It also adds meaning to how he named his own daughter.

Cricketkit is a missing kit I like a lot just because of how cute the name is, but I have no plans for them. They would either be in Dappletail's first litter alongside Darkstripe, or Redtail's first litter with Runningwind beside Longtail.

Cricketpaw probably died just a few months away from becoming a warrior, as Lionheart's first apprentice. Featherkit was born deaf, wandered out of camp one day, and was sadly never found.

[yarrowleef]

Read Darkness Within all in one sitting last night and then passed out so here are my scattered thoughts i wrote down as i read, (afterthoughts in parenthesis)

Darkness Within Spoilers, obv

UGH GOD THE SECOND HAND EMBARRESMENT FROM SQUIRREL FAKE FLIRTING WITH ASHFUR IT HURTS

Just remembered Sandynose died and got a small boost of happiness (will Hawkwing and Plumwillow ever be allowed to talk again now? I mean probly not b/c they aren’t protags and non-protags don’t rly have friends but I can hope. Sorry, Hawkwhing and Plumwillow’s short-lived friendship in Hawkwings Journey was one of the last times I felt something)

Ghost fleas lol

Mothwing: i’m rude now. (but more importantly, Fuck Tigerheartstar for forcing his son to be around the cat that hurt him so badly, like he HAS to know how upset everyone is regarding Shadowsight and his accidentally helping the imposter, and he’s making him be the sole one to tend to him??? There is NO REASON Puddleshine couldn’t have done it. You think Puddleshine is going to try and murder someone?? )

Oh no don't make this a traveling book, and a ROOTBRISTLE traveling book this is going to be insufferable

BACON AND EGGS

Lightleap Is Good (Hey didn’t Shadowsight have another sister? lets be real we all knew Pouncekit was going to end up as the forgettable 3rd one)

Bristlefrost’s crush continues to feel unnatural to me. It’s like she’s grasping at straws romanticizing the most generic things.....wow....I love how ur just so...bare minimum competent....being polite to the loner we came all this way to ask for help like any somewhat reasonable person would....How admirable...I love the way you just *clenches fist* exhibit some basic traits of loyalty and skill that literally every warrior has (I s2g I’m this close to head canon-ing Bristle as a clueless aromantic who doesn't understand what romance is actually suppose to feel like so she just looks at feelings of low-bar admiration and assumes “oh I guess this is that “romantic attraction” everyone’s always talking about? guess I must be in love???” because both her crushes have felt out of nowhere and like. Idk fake/forced sounding like she’s just telling me that that she’s In Love Now while I continue to not actually feel it at all from her end. I know it’s just that I hate the way Erin’s write female characters in love but this head-canon makes me laugh)

Got scared because I thought they were going to villainize Spotfur for not wanting kits for a minute, but also excited at the concept of maybe exploring a female character that doesn’t want to be a mother, but it turns out she was just pulling a Sparkpelt and actually DID want the kits all along and was only hesitant because she’s sad. Shrug oh well.  (the only female character in warriors that was distinctly upset about pregnancy and motherhood was Lizardstripe and as we all know she was eeeeeevil and abusive and “overly ambitious” because why else would you not come around to being happy about motherhood?? YES I’M STILL SALTY ABOUT YELLOWFANG’S SECRET, BAD BOOK)  Whatever it’s fine so long as Spot doesn’t lose her rebel leader spirit forever and default to “soft mom” personality for the rest of her life, I gotta have hope because I actually like Bristle and Spot’s current relationship. Also I am actually very grateful they never made Bristle resentful at Spot for getting with her crush, as lots of middle grade/YA media has a very bad habit of demonizing female romantic “competition” and its super gross, so I rly do like that Bristlefrost is so protective and caring towards her instead. )

This series is trying to tell me that Rootspring is actually Big but I refuse to accept that. he has dumb scrawny bitch energy and we all know it

Sunrise: “Thunderclan may be better with a new leader” lol go off (i mean........they right tho...It’s unfortunate that the tension in this whole plot is a bit dampened by the fact that i DO in fact want bramble to die v badly. I don’t even have special hatred for him, I’m just bored of him.)

Yes Lionblaze beat the shit out of Ashfur

*HOLY SHIT THAT’S FUCKED!!!! (I wrote this in reference to the ghost summoning scene, this was all I could manage at the time, that scene was WILD and I am VIBING WITH THE HORROR OF IT ALL)

* Brashfur: Oh yeah? Could Ashfur fake THIS? *stands up with slightly better posture* Shadowsight: oh damn you got me there...... (asdfhhfhhgh im sorry that was really funny, how did that prove anything?? ONLY A ~REAL~ WARRIOR COULD STAND UP STRAIGHT WE ALL KNOW ASHFUR IS INCAPABLE OF GOOD POSTURE!)

End of the book: *LAUGHING NERVOUSLY* WHAT THE FUCK??? (I thought he was just gonna kill Squirrelflight right there holy shit can you imagine the RIOTS that would ensue in the wake of all this Squirrel/Bramble discourse I was so scared for a second.  

 But it’s fine, she just....went to super hell instead......Warriors has come so far lmao WHAT IS HAPPENING

Final Notes:

*On Mothwing, I don’t think her behavior struck me as “CHARACTER BUTCHERING” as much as it did for other people? I mean.....Warriors fans will say that literally any time a character does ANYTHING less then perfectly nice I think her actions just seemed that much harsher because we are reading from Shadowsight’s POV, and Shadowsight is taking everything 10x more personally right now (understandably so, but Mothwing isn’t inside his head) she wasn’t trying to hurt him. Also... like... Shadowsight DID get his name too early. It’s not Mothwing’s job to put his feelings above everything else, she’s not even his mentor, Puddleshine on the other hand, as his main mentor, I don’t understand what his deal is ignoring Shadowsight, that’s not how you help an apprentice but I suppose I chalk many of his mistakes up to also not being the most experienced medicine cat (he barely even had his own mentor.) Maybe he’s distant because he feels guilty and actually blames himself for not guiding Shadowsight better?? the two of them haven’t communicated about it yet so idk

 any way I give Mothwing a pass to be a little short tempered right now as a cat who has had her abilities periodically questioned all her life no matter how hard she works or how much experience she has, just because she doesn’t vibe with the spiritual cult side of the clans, I can understand why she’s a bit defensive of being questioned and frustrated watching so much hurt happen Yet Again due to reliance on StarClan visions over common sense, and I for one still stan her for slandering StarClan and refusing to accept Mistystar’s bullshit banishing like everyone else. Sometimes a character is at the end of their rope and can’t manage to be 100% nice 24/7 and that’s maybe not inherently bad writing? idk just my hot take. At a certain point we all gotta reckon with the fact that our perception of most popular supporting characters in heavily colored by fanon and we can’t always get mad at the authors for not adhering to it

*The sisters magic shit is my fav worldbuilding warriors has had in AGES, I love the way it’s described and it actually feels like it adds something to this world. I love this horror imagery with the ghosts, very excited for that. 

*still won’t be thrilled if Ashfur is working alone, because his motive doesn’t make sense right now. I mean the trying to get Squilf thing, sure, whatever, but the “I will make everyone pay for what they did to me”???? cause like?? Who??? they didn’t do anything to him?? Ashfur’s grievance was very specifically JUST Squilf. He has no other cause for revenge, he had no other beef or complaints about the clans to my knowledge? The cat that killed him is dead, and she’s like, the only other one that I could see as having “wronged” him?? I guess he also didn’t like Firestar much according to Graystripe’s Vow (and on account of how willing he was to kill him w/ Hawkfrost) but Firestar is ALSO dead. I don’t understand his angle. Will have to see last 2 books to judge i suppose.

*All in all I am interested to see where this is going!! but also the pacing as I feared is becoming a major issue. It’s better then ending the main conflict on book 3 like Vision of Shadows did, but omg. Hardly anything happened in all these pages. I realized I was over half way through and nothing about the situation had actually CHANGED or advanced at all in all that time. Similar to the past 2 books which I believe could have been combined, this plot felt like it should have been the first half of a book. Discussing whether or not to kill the imposter isn’t much of a standalone plot, it’s just the set up to a plot. Finding the sisters didn’t need to be a whole long thing, the debates about the Imposters fate didn’t need to be repeated 10 times, all those chapters illustrating that “Shadowsight is sad” were also drawn out, repetitive, and interchangeable, we probably only needed 2 or so chapters showing his struggles to get the necessary information across. It felt like a lot of padding, it was really slow and I did a lot of skimming. I am still very interested in the overarching plot and mystery behind the ghosts so that kept me reading but man this “will they won’t they kill him” plot did not justify it’s own whole book. Alas this is a persisting issue that will never be resolved while they continue to force 6 books into 1 series that doesn’t need 6 books. I’m sure the writers are doing the best they can with these unfortunate constraints but still, it’s a wonder this slow padding isn’t more of a detriment to their younger readers that the books are supposed to be marketed to.

[oliveheart-worldbuilding]

Aster, Bee Balm, Daffodil, Dahlia, Laurel, Petunia, Rose, and Violet? I'd also add Gardenia but it's impossible to escape murder cats.

Hi there! Thank you so much for the ask! Once again, I’m sorry for taking so long to answer!

Adding a read more because this one is pretty long.

Aster- Who’s your least favorite character? Why?

This one is a bit difficult for me, I read many of the books a long time ago and I’m sure if I were to read them again my opinion on a lot of characters would be very different. Going only by memory I would say that Bluestar is one of my least favorite characters but then I would have to add many female characters that I now feel were completely mistreated by the authors and whose entire arcs where thrown under the bus in the name of forbidden love or man pain. I never liked Silverstream, but nowadays I know that whom I actually hate is Graystripe. I used to not like Leafpool or Squirrelflight at all, now I don’t. What I’m trying to say is that my opinion changes constantly and a lot. I read the books a long time ago and did so with a completely different mindset (I was 16 when I read Omen of the Stars and oh man was I edgy and stupid back then), most of my opinions nowadays are based on the potential the characters have rather than the actual character. So bearing that in mind:

-Bluestar: I know, I know, a lot of you love her a lot but even after reading people’s opinions on her I just… eh I don’t like her at all. She feels incredibly detached in the first books. To me she always treated Firepaw rather coldly. I know a lot of people talk about Bluestar as if she had become Firepaw’s adoptive mother but I just don’t see it. Reading about her losing her faith was very interesting, so was her crumping mind health but, I just gotta draw the line on how terrible she was to Brightpaw. In this house we love and respect Brightpaw and Bluestar was just very nasty to her. I really didn’t like her novella at all either. Based on her relationship with Whitestorm in The Prophecies Begin I always thought that she might have played an important role in his life after Snowfur died but, it doesn’t seem that way at all? The only moment we see them interact is when she tells Whitekit, in a very distressing way may I add, that her mother is dead and never coming back. To me, she also comes in as selfish and power-hungry, she spends a huge part of the book complaining about Thistleclaw (bear in mind, back then he was only overly ambitious, not a pedophile) and his relationship with her sister, even though she herself is spending time with Oakheart, a tom from another clan. When Goosefeather tells her about the prophecy he never specifies that she must be the one becoming leader, only that Thistleclaw is not meant to become one and yet she goes out of her way to become the leader so much so that she’s willing to risk her kittens’ safety (killing one in the process) just so she can be available for the position. She could have just uuuuhmmmm told Sunstar about the prophecy? Also I’m pretty sure Sunstar assures her that Thistleclaw would not have made a good leader multiple times so… he could have chosen literally anyone else? Rosetail? Thrustpelt? Don’t get me started on the whole Tigerkit dilemma! She chooses to believe Goosefeather prophecies when they strengthen her own personal bias but when she’s told about Tigerkit’s she just goes “aw man Goosefeather sure is crazy hahaha anyway back on me becoming leader”. I don’t know, there’s more to it but this is getting pretty long. Personally she’s just not my favorite.

-Graystripe: He’s a terrible friend, he treats Fireheart like absolute garbage, he chooses a molly he has known for exactly 2 days over his best friend and his entire clan, he leaves Thunderclan to spend more time with his kittens just to abandon them 5 seconds later, and yet the son of a bitch was somehow always meant to become deputy to Firestar??? Just because they are friends??? Dude went against the warrior code, endangered his clan by refusing to fight Riverclan, was incredible close to causing an all-out war with Riverclan, abandoned his clan, refused to see what was wrong about his behavior just because he was in love… How in the f is he a good warrior??? Erins I want answers; this man is garbage. When he gets captured by the humans and comes back to the lake he gets so SO mad at Firestar for not “waiting for him”, my dude you were gone for seasons, you were deputy, you really expect the entire clan to stop working so that you can keep your friendship bracelet position? Everybody thought you were dead Graystripe!! Was everyone supposed to keep vigil forever?? He’s also a terrible father to both his litters, his reaction to being told that Feathertail’s dead is “aw man… she was so beautiful… like her mom…” that’s terribleeee. At some point in Omen of the Stars, after Briarlight broke her spine, Millie complains about Graystripe not helping her at all and then they start fighting about it, Graystripe’s only answer is something along the lines of “yeah whatever dude”. I hate him so much. I stopped reading after The Last Hope, so I can’t talk about the rest but, I’ve seen some parts of Graystripe’s Vows and let me tell I want this man gone for good. He’s lived for too long.

-Lionblaze: He’s the most flavorless character in the history of flavorless characters. What’s his arc? That’s right. He doesn’t have one. I literally have nothing to say about him. How is this character alive and in his way to become leader when Hollyleaf could have been in his place? Disgusting. Also, dreaming about killing your girlfriend and bathing in her blood? Bad. Not showing not even a bit of remorse about after waking up? Terrible. Badly hurting her mentor when you were trying harm her? Just straight up fucked up. He’s badly written, boring and kind of very misogynist at times.

I have many other opinions because I’m a very judgmental person but I’m gonna leave it at that because this is getting very long.

Bee Balm- What’s your favorite novella or super edition?

I’ve only read three! So Crockedstar’s promise I guess.

Daffodil- When did you first start reading the books?

In the summer of 6th grade, that’s when I was… 11-12 years old? I think? So in 2012-2013, I started reading them in Spanish but I read through them super-fast and the translations were super slow to come out so I just started reading the books in English. It actually helped my English level quite a bit! My first English book was The Forest of Secrets I think.

Dahlia- Has any death scene actually made you cry? What was it?

Snowfur’s (Reading about Whitekit screaming at her mother to wake up was super messed up), Yellowfang’s (I loved that old woman. I wish they hadn’t written about her in Starclan, she’s so out of character in later books) and Hollyleaf’s death (yes, first and second time, young me loved her to pieces. I still can’t believe they let her die a second time when Lionblaze’s flavorless ass was right there…).

Laurel- If you could write the books, what changes would you make?

I would contemplate the idea of just, moving forward in time? The warriors’ series feels very stagnant. Young characters die while having no personality at all and older characters from the first series are still alive and very much immortal at this point. We need new fresh blood.

I would just set up a completely new series: maybe the stories of Firestar and his family have been immortalized, maybe they are now revered as gods or something, I would create an actual religion system, one based in nature, the death and rebirth of all things and the need to remember those who have fallen. I would change their entire culture so that elders are more important; medicine cats are not regarded as useless (I’m looking at every character that forced in this position instead of choosing it themselves) and the warrior code actually makes sense.

The setting of this new series would be the lake territories but a long time has passed since the time of Firestar and things have changed a lot. A kittypet joins the clans and through their perspective we see how they work and act, what makes every single one of them different, their culture and laws, etc. It would be a nod to the first series while being completely new. It would also allow to add new characters from the start so they all have personalities and relationships with each other.

I would also contemplate creating one last series set up in the time of the original clans where everything just goes to hell. You guys remember rabies? I want that + Starclan going crazy. A full out massacre of old characters that ends in only a few surviving ones. I want blood, and I want it to be scary. If children can read about Tigerclaw’s horrible death, then they can read what in my opinion would be a zombie/ghost apocalypse. And then I would start anew with this completely new series set up in the future.

I mean, I would rewrite a looooooot of things, but that’s a talk for another day.

Petunia- Which arc is your favorite? Which is your last favorite?

My favorite is The Prophecies Begin when it comes to the plot and the Power of Three when it comes to characters. My least favorite is the New Prophecy.

Rose- Do you prefer traditional naming or creative naming?

Traditional all the way! I like when things have meaning and each name having its own really helps the feeling of there being a pre-established culture! Creative naming just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me in this context but that’s just my personal taste.

Violet- What do you think is the worst trope in the series?

Already answered!

Gardenia- Do you think you’ll ever leave the fandom?

Probs not, I’m in too deep, warriors is always at the back of my mind...

[wardencommanderrodimiss]

A bit of Bullshit Defense AU today! But also if you have not read all 14 available chapters of @runningwolf62‘s fic Dirty Paws yet, go do that and I will be here when you return, because this fic heavily, heavily leans on the Wolf and Roddy Cinematic Universe.

----

Nick and Edgey are still talking about the homework but Larry is bored of it and he’s done as much as he’s gonna do by now. He wanders off into the kitchen to see what snacks the Edgeworths have and he is still there when he hears the front door open and close and Franzy comes in the kitchen. She gently sets her bag down on one of the kitchen chairs, shooting a look of disgust down at Larry’s bag which has spilled contents all over the floor. Hey, he was going to clean that up! Before Mr Edgeworth gets home, at least!

“Hey Franzy,” he says, and her head snaps up like she didn’t realize he was there, and an expression of fury contorts her entire face and she snatches up something out of her bag and storms across the kitchen to begin smacking Larry in the shoulder with it. “Ow! Hey! Hey!”

Even with the commotion neither of the other two come out to rescue him which Larry thinks is real cruel of them. “Larry Butz!” Franzy shouts. “Where is the next book! Where is it!” In between her assaults, he manages to wrench her weapon from her hands and sees it’s the third Warrior Cats book that he lent her yesterday. “You can’t leave me hanging like this!”

“Wh - you finished it already? I gave it to you yesterday!”

“Where is the next book, Larry Butz!”

“It’s at home! I don’t have it!”

“Graystripe left!” she shrieks. “ThunderClan doesn’t trust him! But RiverClan probably won’t either when he goes! I need to know what happens next!”

“I’ll bring it over tomorrow!” He’s getting beaten to heck by his best friend’s baby sister because of these cat books. What a day.

“I want to read it now! I want to know what happens with Graystripe’s loyalties!”

“I don’t have it now!” Seriously, neither Edgey or Nick is coming to make sure neither of them are bleeding? Rude. “But I do have something else you can read if you want more Warrior Cats!” She stares doubtfully at him, and at the book he’s lifted way over his head so that she can’t get it back and start smacking him with it again. “It’s not got Graystripe but I think you might still be interested.”

He stuffs his book back in his back and grabs one of his notebooks off the floor. “Your school notes, Larry Butz?” Franzy huffs. “I don’t want those.”

“It’s not my notes.” Wow, she thinks he takes notes and doesn’t just sneak peaks at Edgey’s and Nick’s? “It’s a story I’m writing. It’s about other Warrior Cats, ones I’ve made up myself, but they’ve still got Clans and a Warrior Code and stuff.”

She accepts the notebook, still looking wary but a little excited. “And cats with divided loyalties?”

“You really like the ‘forbidden lovers’ thing, huh?”

“It’s not about the romance!” she protests. “I like the - the…” Whatever it is, if she’s not just trying to cover up for the fact that she does like the romance, she doesn’t figure out how to put to words, and she just lets out a short frustrated yell and opens the front cover of the notebook. “Is this story finished? Or are you going to leave me hanging again.”

“It’s not done, no--”

She smacks him with his notebook and then storms off, but she’s already engrossed in the first page and nearly hits the wall as she leaves.

-

“--and then the rumor from the preview of the book is that Bramblestar has rabies.”

“Rabies?” Franzy repeats with a laugh. “You know,” she adds a moment later, thoughtfully, “that seems like a plot that they could have used sooner. Has anyone actually had rabies before?”

“I don’t believe so? Maybe because it’s supposedly supposed to be set in England.” But he’s never even nominally given a location to his fic, so, yeah, that would be a good plot. Maybe he should use that. Although most of his readers would know that’s a plot he’s stealing from fan theories. “I haven’t really read any of the recent books though. This is all what I’m hearing from--”

“--this internet friend of yours, yes,” Franzy interrupts. “The wolfman who likes cats.”

“Yeah.” The one and only. 

Franzy rests her chin on her hand. “So you still haven’t told Misty why you draw cats all the time.”

“It’s not exactly been a priority these past couple weeks, no.”

“I meant any time before that, you still did not tell Elise.” 

“What, that I initially found her book and then reached out to her because I stumbled across it in the children’s section of the bookstore when I was there picking up a book about talking cats because my wolfman internet friend told me that they’d actually put out a decent book for once?”

“Well, when you put it that way it sounds ridiculous.”

-

Franziska picks at the edge of her nail, listening as Agent Lang finishes his conversation with one of his agents. He stares at his phone a moment longer when he brings it down from his ear. Franziska glances over at the screen. 

“I did not expect you would like cats.” It’s not even a picture of a cat, like he has a cat at home. It’s some cute art of a cat. Like something Larry would draw.

“Didn’t expect you to like small talk, Ms Prosecutor.”

Franziska leans against the wall. “I do not. But if we are stuck together by this smuggling ring investigation then we may as well know who we are working with.”

“I know who I’m working with,” Lang snarls. “Prosecutor von Karma. I know all about your father.”

“Yes, Gregory Edgeworth. He’s a remarkable defense attorney, wouldn’t you agree?” Lang’s face hardens. “Agent Shi-Long Lang, blood and names are not the only things that make a family - or a ‘pack’, if you wish to use your silly analogies.”

“Probably should’ve told that to Mr Ernest Amano before he called you up for help on basis of having been friends with your father.”

“Many people try to call me up on basis of having known Manfred von Karma. I like to help them, arrest and prosecute them if needed, and let them know, unequivocally, that I am not what they think my blood and name would make me be.”

-

“Hey, so uh, Franzy, I’ve got a weird thing to tell you.”

Franziska rubs her eyes, yawns, takes a moment to adjust to the fact that it is mid-afternoon and she just woke up and Larry was passed out on her couch because he’d stuck around the embassy waiting for her to be able to give him a ride and also said that he figured that Miles and Gregory wouldn’t forgive him if he just fucked off and abandoned her in the middle of that messy aftermath, but he’d also been asleep in a corner when she found him so she’s not sure how much that was a motivator. Not enough to keep him awake. “Weirder than the fact that you became a stage-show actor?”

“Hey, my savings were getting low, and while Misty’s still recovering I figured I should go out and have a job for a bit - anyway, um, so. Agent Lang.”

“What of the wolfman? I asked him to give me a call once he was out of surgery.” He’d laughed at her concern. She snapped at him, oh forgive her for being concerned about someone who was shot and had to get the bullet removed. 

“Yeah, he’s, uh - so, funny story, you know my internet friend, the WolfDragon guy?”

Franziska thinks about the cat picture that she asked Lang about. That she thought Larry could have drawn. “Larry Butz, tell me that you are joking with me right now--”

“No and also I’d said I’d pick him up at the hospital but I don’t have a car but you do and--”

-

“So are all the characters in your fanfic based on real people, or just some of them?” Lang asks. The three of them have tucked themselves into a booth of a little diner, a B-movie werewolf on crutches, an artist in sweatpants and uncombed hair, and Franziska, who had also been too tired to wear any more than casual clothes and got heckled by Lang for how hilariously different she looks out of her professional wardrobe. 

Larry slurps his coffee. “Yeah, honestly, most of them are based on people we know. If you meet them you’ll probably be able to guess pretty easily.”

“Ha, I bet. Dead ringer on Ms Viperpaw von Edgeworth here. Half-clan kit trying to figure out where she fits in between her blood relations and the people she’s grown up with?”

Franziska sips her tea loudly. Disconcerting, having someone know all about her because he read the fanfiction that she is a cat in. “You had better give me my warrior name soon,” she tells Larry.

[canon-notcanon-warriorcats]

another time consuming project for me,, booboo the fool

Submitted by: ghoulcorvid

okay so there’s been plenty of things I wished had been done differently in wc throughout the years and I finally decided to plot out a rewrite thing because I apparently hate myself and this is fanfic #16478592 that got stuck in my head:

first read/reread all the books or at least a synopsis because I stopped reading before firestar died lol

mainly this rewrite is for tpb but I might continue on who knows (not me that’s for sure)

REWORK THE WARRIOR CODE,, like in universe because these cats will point out a dumb rule one book and then be accepting of it the next book ???

expand on all the various ceremonies and StarClan and The Dark Forest because they were cool concepts and now they’re kinda lame imo

add more explicitly lgbtqia+ AND disabled characters and make them make sense,, and stop fridging so many she-cats

okay so the basis of this au is that rusty comes to tc BEFORE he is 6 moons old and he’s guided by redtail because why wait until spottedleaf dies when it’s feasible he could have reached out from StarClan

idk who takes care of him while he has to stay in the nursery (maybe all of them ???) but he’s like 3 moons old lol he baby

sandstorm is a chimera from two embryos one who’s father is redtail and the other who’s father is runningwind (I’m fond of red/running/brindle (I just spent an hour quadruple checking that they weren’t any closer than 2nd cousins so if they are I must have missed it omg) for some reason and since this is a thing that can happen in cat populations I was like hmm sandstorm has 3 parents now)

surprise !!! redtail is a chimera too !!! except he only has 2 parents,, he just absorbed one of his siblings :3

chimerism can also cause male torties,, so guess what lol,, sol is a chimera tortie who’s infertile

longtail mentors firepaw !!! (because I think it would be interesting and funny,, but also bluestar does take over his mentoring after tigerclaw is banished due to tigerclaw and longtail being fairly close beforehand) 

I am fucking with the timeline a Lot so if none of this makes sense time-wise rn I’ll fix it later lol

okay so I lied about this only being about tpb,, I have to include some things about my first super edition that I loved reading: firestar’s quest,, yeah it’s not great but it does have a special place in my heart

I’m sorry but firestar does Not make greystripe deputy after whitestorm passes in the tigerclan/lionclan battle

I’m not sure who exactly becomes deputy tho,, maybe longtail ??? I like longtail he’s a good boy,, if not him maybe someone else that most of the clan won’t openly object to like they did with fireheart

so firestar starts having his visions or seeing ghosts or what have you and like I probably won’t change him yelling at starclan because that was hilarious

(OKAY SO I JUST GALAXY-BRAINED MYSELF WITH SMUDGE JOINING THE CLANS FOR SOME REASON (not tc tho) OR MAYBE HE SIRES SOME KITS TO COMBAT THE IN*EST PROBLEM IN TC EARLY)

okay so greystripe isn’t deputy and this enables him to go with fire and sand because I think it would be interesting

I’m kinda thinking greyfiresand endgame (smoky glass 👀) but like as an open relationship because I kinda picture grey as this dumbass boy who falls in love with so many different cats (also idk if grey and sand are closely related so maybe they aren’t together if they are just greyfire and sandfire)

so if I want to keep cherrysharp a thing,, he Will Not be mentoring her whatsoever,, but I could just bring in another mentioned kittypet to be sharpclaw’s apprentice

actually I probably will do that just because I can lol

lowkey want hutch/shortwhisker to stay in the clan so that might happen idk yet

a Big Big change I’m making to firestar’s quest is that skywatcher is younger and his mother is still alive,, his mom take his role in the book (telling everyone about skyclan and dying of old age)

skywatcher is actually the age of a seasoned warrior (think whitestorm or lionheart in tpb),, he might get a different suffix as I might give the -watcher suffix to his momma

skywatcher actually saves rainfur in the battle with the rats (not for any particular reason I just thought it would be interesting,, some other character might die tho) although he still is heavily injured and so still causes the characters to fight harder

this is all I have so far,, thanks for letting me submit this and sorry it’s so long lol

~~~

oh i like your firestar’s quest rewrite ideas a lot

also sandstorm and graystripe would be cousins unless you change his mom since willowpelt and redtail are siblings!

runningwind, redtail, and brindleface are not related at all so don’t worry about that!

i’d go with either longboy as deputy OR goldenflower or frostfur they’d also be neat choices and they could happily retire and you can make a younger cat be the new deputy *cough* squirrelflight, sandstorm, or sorreltail *cough*

[staircasttext]

Ep 15 Transcript: Press Q for War Crimes

Episode 15

[intro music]

PAZ: Hi everyone, welcome back to Stairway to StarClan, a Warriors Cat reread pawdcast. I'm Paz.

JULIAN: I'm Julian.

LIZ: And I'm Liz.

PAZ: And we are here for our mega finale episode, totally intended to be huge not because of bad chapter planning. But yeah, we've finished Fire and Ice and a second full Warriors book.

LIZ: Yay.

JULIAN: Hell yeah.

PAZ: Yeah, exciting. But we're gonna split the discussion up into two parts today because it's really long. So that's the plan. Sorry, I noticed this while I was reading this book in the car today. This review on the back cover, I just wanna read it out for everyone.

JULIAN: Please do.

PAZ: "A suspenseful animal adventure that will leave readers eyeing Puss a little nervously." From the Kirkus Reviews. Thank you, Kirkus Reviews.

JULIAN: Oh my god.

PAZ: This book is like what if my cat's plotting to murder me? You never know. Oh, I feel like I have to give my cat a shoutout for his warrior spirit because he caught three mice within 24 hours.

LIZ: What?

PAZ: Recently, very proud of him.

JULIAN: I'm so proud of him.

LIZ: When did the third one happen?

PAZ: The third one, it happened this morning, I think.

LIZ: Wow.

JULIAN: He's so fierce.

PAZ: He's so fierce, and a great hunter, and he has a bell collar on.

JULIAN: Damn.

PAZ: So he's like fucking Rock Lee. If we ever took that off...

LIZ: He learned how to be a warrior around them. It's like when they do the montage with the fight guys, and they have to have the big weights on them.

PAZ: Yeah, Rock Lee.

LIZ: Is that... well, I don't know. I've never Narutoed.

PAZ: Oh my gosh. Do I have to go send you the Rock Lee weight scene? I'll do that after.

LIZ: All right, join us for season three when we watch Naruto and only that video.

PAZ: I read so much Naruto. I just forget that sometimes. Okay, anyway, let's talk about Warriors, I guess. Anyone have anything else to add before the summaries?

JULIAN: Doozy of a chapter chunk.

LIZ: We're going to get to that part in the first summaries, but I gasped out loud at one thing. Just like holding my little ereader phone, just like [gasps].

PAZ: Yes, there is a very dramatic reveal. Although I knew it, so it wasn't as dramatic for me. But glad to hear that first impression reaction. Let's start off with these chapter summaries, breaking off from when Brokenstar's polycule attacks ThunderClan. Chapter 26, Brokenstar attacks ThunderClan. While Fireheart, Yellowfang, the apprentices and the queens fight back, the elders hide away the kits. Cinderpaw goes to join, but Dustpaw forces her to stay back in Yellowfang's den.

Fireheart fights Brokenstar, but is attacked by Clawface. That was the cat who killed Spottedleaf in the last book. Fireheart furiously attacks Clawface, suddenly feeling Spottedleaf's spirit besides him to help avenge her death. Just as Clawface pins him down, Fireheart cries out to Spottedleaf for help. But Graystripe arrives just in time to pull Clawface off, killing him in the process. Graystripe says Bluestar also found bones and recognized Brokenstar's scent, and that she sent him to get Tigerclaw because she thought it was a trap.

Meanwhile, Fireheart sees Frostfur, Dustpaw, and Sandpaw fighting the rogue cats as he looks for Brokenstar. He hears a yowl from Yellowfang's den and rushes in, afraid for Cinderpaw, but sees that Yellowfang has seriously injured Brokenstar instead. Brokenstar loses a life, but not his last, and Fireheart asks why she doesn't finish him off. Yellowfang confesses that Brokenstar is actually her son, and that she loved his father Raggedstar.

LIZ: [gasps]

PAZ: Brokenstar doesn't know she's his mother. They all find out that Yellowfang has injured Brokenstar's eyes badly so that he is blind. Fireheart checks on Cinderpaw, who is fine, but wishes she could have helped in the battle, and she and Yellowfang start tending to Brokenstar. The rogue cats are chased off. Fireheart thanks Graystripe for saving his life and Graystripe tells him he'd give his life for Fireheart. Just bro things.

Bluestar returns. Fireheart explains everything to her, and she praises him. Tigerclaw is also back. Fireheart tells him what happened to Brokenstar, and Yellowfang says she will tend to him until he recovers. Almost everyone is skeptical, but she says it would be wrong to leave him to die or kill him, although she doesn't reveal that he is her son, and Bluestar agrees for now. She says Brokenstar is no longer a clan leader and renames him in a pretty unnecessary fashion. She renames him to Brokentail, I think.

JULIAN: Yep.

PAZ: Chapter 27. After the battle, Fireheart tells Bluestar how Dustpaw and Sandpaw defended the clan from the attack, and that they both deserve to be warriors and she agrees. Dustpaw is surprised, and Sandpaw says it's Fireheart's quick thinking that saved them. They decided to have the naming ceremony that day, and the two new warriors are then named Dustpelt and Sandstorm. Bluestar also thanks Fireheart for his courage. Fireheart says to Sandstorm he's glad they can eat together as warriors now, though is a bit disappointed that he can't eat alone with her.

He goes to bring something to Cinderpaw for dinner, since she wasn't at the naming ceremony. Brokentail is still unconscious. Cinderpaw is depressed, feeling she is a burden to the clan, and Fireheart doesn't even comfort or reassure her again for some reason.

LIZ: [grumbles]

PAZ: Yellowfang says Cinderpaw is a great help to her, though, and they both have a friendly exchange. Fireheart is a little envious of their relationship. It's snowing the next morning. Dustpelt and Sandpaw have returned from the midnight vigil and are asleep. Bluestar tells the rest of the clan that Brokentail will be staying.

She also tells Fireheart that she's worried about him and Graystripe not making up yet, and he and Graystripe should hang out (hunt). Fireheart is hopeful about the idea, but Graystripe is cold to him, accusing Fireheart of doubting his clan loyalty and only wanting to keep an eye on him. He says Fireheart just wants to please Bluestar. They go hunting anyway, and it's super awkward because of trust issues. When they return with freshkill, Brindleface tells Fireheart that Cloudkit and her other kids have gone missing.

Chapter 28, Fireheart tries to find Graystripe to help look for the kits, but can't find him. Sandstorm offers to help instead. It's difficult to track the kits in the blizzard, and Fireheart is worried. He and Sandstorm both decide to head back and get more help, but they notice the voices of the kits before doing so. They find all the kits but Cloudkit by a fallen tree, and one of the kits says he is hunting. Cloudkit shows up, carrying a little vole in his mouth. Fireheart and Sandstorm gather up all the kits and rush back to the camp.

Bluestar scolds the kits, but Cloudkit is defiant and says the clan needed food and that it was his idea. She says that while his intentions were good, he was foolish. Fireheart feels a mixture of pride and worry for Cloudkit because he is skilled but is reckless about the warrior code. Bluestar later tells Fireheart that he needs to teach Cloudkit to respect the warrior code. He agrees but resents the high expectations for such a young kit, and thinks of Graystripe, a clan born warrior who disobeys the code all the time. He also wonders if Cloudkit can really adjust to clan life.

Graystripe returns from hunting, but Fireheart can tell he went to see Silverstream. That night, Fireheart dreams about hunting with a grown up Cloudkit. Spottedleaf also shows up in a dream and warns Fireheart about a battle approaching and to beware of a warrior he can't trust. And that's the first chunk of chapters that we'll be discussing.

JULIAN: God.

LIZ: Damn.

JULIAN: Chapter 26 especially was just like one thing after another. Like very good, but it's just the events start coming and they don't stop coming.

PAZ: Yeah, it has like the big soap opera reveal in the middle of it.

JULIAN: God.

PAZ: Yeah, I mean like half of it's the battle, and then Yellowfang's big reveal.

JULIAN: Which is so good.

LIZ: It really is.

JULIAN: We love to see just a whole fucked up family situation. Very good.

LIZ: Just a mess.

PAZ: Graystripe wishes his forbidden romance had whatever's going on here.

LIZ: Graystripe, you're just dating someone from another high school.

JULIAN: You're no medicine cat in love with your own leader. And then blinding your son.

PAZ: Yeah, your son who doesn't know he's your son.

LIZ: Oh my god.

PAZ: Like I said, some real--

LIZ: I think it was-- yeah.

PAZ: Go ahead.

LIZ: Oh no, I think it's just kind of nicely seeded I think in our previous reading, where she said like she recognized like it was Brokenstar from bones and stuff. But um, I think it was mentioned that like, oh yeah, I was there for their kitting. And it's like, yeah, you sure were.

JULIAN: Oh boy.

LIZ: You were the main participant.

PAZ: Yeah, I think I feel like I remembered in Into the Wild there were some hints, too, although I'd have to go back and find them.

JULIAN: I think there's some like-- I mean, she obviously has really conflicted feelings about Brokenstar in Into the Wild. Which makes it even more fucked up that he kicked her out. She was his mom!

PAZ: Right?

JULIAN: Um, but like, also, I think there's some stuff about her being kind of maternal or like, all the stuff with her and the kits, where she's like, kind of trying to hang out around the kit den, and the queens are really upset about it. And she's like, oh, I get it.

PAZ: Just a nice two book build up.

JULIAN: I love Yellowfang.

PAZ: Me too.

LIZ: She's so good.

PAZ: Also, her being like, this is like divine punishment...

JULIAN: Oof.

PAZ: Very, very, like, it sucks but also very cool. I don't know. Although, I don't know about that, Yellowfang.

LIZ: Yeah, that's... just, I guess we're kind of going back to the ableism from the-- I mean, from the whole series, but also, specifically from the previous reading, uh. It's like--

PAZ: Oh, I wasn't talking about Brokenstar there. I was just talking about her having a fucked up family situation.

LIZ: Oh, okay, sorry.

PAZ: Now she's like, this is what I get. But yeah.

JULIAN: I think her line exactly is like, "my punishment wasn't that like my other two kits died. It was that this one survived." And it's like, oh, geez.

LIZ: Yeah, that's fucked up.

PAZ: StarClan said you can have a real sicko of a child.

JULIAN: StarClan gave you a real Megaboneclan son.

PAZ: Oh God, right. Yeah, but yeah, Liz, the ableism stuff does come back up, if you wanna--

LIZ: That line... it can be-- That line is like very-- I don't want to say... I don't know. I would appreciate it a lot more for the drama of your evil son, your Megaboneclan evil son, if it wasn't for like, right, immediately, like next to this, how they talk so much about like, oh, now he's blind. He can't do anything.

PAZ: I didn't read that line as referring to that. Although--

LIZ: No, no. I don't think that was intentional.

PAZ: The descriptions around his blindness are like, still not great because it's like, oh, he can't do anything now, but I think that line more refers to his actions as a cat person.

LIZ: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

PAZ: Than what has happened.

LIZ: Yeah, it's just--

JULIAN: Yeah, I do wish that like-- oh, go ahead.

LIZ: No, it's just unfortunate that those things are right next to each other. It's like, bad timing, I feel.

JULIAN: I wish that like, I mean, Warrior Cats bingo. I wish that the blindness was handled differently because it's like oh, he's completely not a threat. We can just keep him around and he'll be totally fine. And it's like his vision was not what made him a threat.

LIZ: No.

JULIAN: Like he was a threat because he was extremely persuasive and like, very good at getting people to go along with him. And nothing's happened to that.

LIZ: No.

PAZ: Yeah. And he still has a bunch of lives, so.

JULIAN: Yeah, I did think-- like when the kits disappear, my immediate-- I had forgotten what happened. And my immediate thought was Brokenstar?

PAZ: Yeah, same.

JULIAN: That he had lured them away or something. Which I personally think would have been a good plot point.

LIZ: Would have been a good plot point. I think if that happened, though, we would have been like, okay, I guess we have an-- you made an evil disabled cat kidnap the kits.

JULIAN: Oh, that is bad. Yeah.

PAZ: You can't win either way in Warriors, I guess.

LIZ: Nn.

JULIAN: You're either Cinderpaw and you're sort of a de facto medicine cat and also a burden on the clan. Or you're Brokentail.

PAZ: Yeah, speaking of ableism, there's more bad convos with Cinderpaw.

JULIAN: Ugh.

PAZ: Where she straight up says like, oh, I feel like a burden on the clan. And then Fireheart doesn't really like disagree. Like what the hell?

LIZ: He's interrupted, right? Because Yellowfang starts talking about like oh, actually, you're a great assistant. But you didn't have to write it that way.

JULIAN: Yeah. I also just like... no one talks about the elders or like the queens or like other people who don't hunt for themselves like being burdens on the clan.

LIZ: No.

PAZ: Right?

JULIAN: I don't... where is this coming fr-- I mean, I know where it's coming from. It's coming from the authors. But like it just doesn't make sense with like the way that the cat society has been set up.

PAZ: Absolutely. It's just like a very deeply communal society, and like it is about supporting everyone in the clan. So like you said, the elders don't hunt. So yeah, it just doesn't make sense at all.

LIZ: Yeah. I guess like if you wanted to, I don't think that Warriors Cats currently in this book or possibly later wants to have that conversation necessarily. But if you wanted to, I think it would be pretty easy to have like one clan be more-- like, to be better at this sort of accommodation, and have like-- just for like that black and white kid metaphor, to have like the evil clan be not as good at it, you know?

PAZ: Well, apparently WindClan is doing fine on that front, but it's not portrayed like ThunderClan is deeply ableist, so.

LIZ: No.

PAZ: So it just comes off as a weird like incoherent plot point, when you can have like, one disabled cat in one clan like in a high ranking authority position, and then in another clan, apparently not. And like, for no reason given.

LIZ: WindClan's fine. They're just like, hey, what's up? What the fuck is up with everyone else?

PAZ: Yeah, we'll talk more about that later. WindClan really needs to like, move and then stop dealing with all this bullshit. And then there's that weird renaming thing too.

JULIAN: Yeah. Nothing's wrong with-- is something wrong with his tail?

PAZ: I don't know.

LIZ: No, I don't think so.

PAZ: I was like, was that-- I couldn't tell if that used to be his name. And she's just like, you going back to that name. Or, I don't know.

JULIAN: Oh, Brokentail was his original warrior name.

PAZ: Yeah, that's what I read it as.

LIZ: Oh.

PAZ: But once again, weird names.

LIZ: I think it's just because like, oh, someone else is reverting it for him, not...

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Oh.

LIZ: It's not even really like, yeah.

JULIAN: Jesus. Yellowfang named him, A.

LIZ: Yellowfang!

JULIAN: Like she named him Brokenkit.

PAZ: Oh no.

LIZ: Why?

JULIAN: "After the bend in his tail as well as the feeling Yellowfang felt in her heart at the time of his birth."

PAZ: Oh my god. Damn.

LIZ: Fucking, move over, Lan Wangji.

[everyone cackling]

PAZ: [muffled] Ohhh. I probably just blew out the audio so much.

JULIAN: I also did. Oh no.

PAZ: A little joke for our Untamed fans out there.

LIZ: Untamed didn't know shit.

PAZ: Untamed wants what Warriors has.

LIZ: Why not just call him like--

PAZ: Mistakekit.

LIZ: Bendytail or something-- no! Just Wiggletail or something. Wavetail.

PAZ: Wiggletail, that's great.

JULIAN: Aw.

PAZ: Also, it's beginning to thunderstorm pretty hard here. Hopefully I don't lose power but--

JULIAN: Oh no.

PAZ: Heads up.

LIZ: It's ThunderClan. They're coming.

JULIAN: Well, I guess that's what we got Craig for.

PAZ: Yeah, hopefully Craig works. Fingers crossed.

JULIAN: In non-Brokenstar related news, the bit about where Graystripe saves Fireheart, and then is like, I would give my life for you, is so romantic?

PAZ: Right? It just came out of nowhere.

LIZ: It's so good.

PAZ: It was deeply romantic.

LIZ: It's just, it's such a good moment. And then, ugh.

JULIAN: It's such a good moment, and then Graystripe fucks up again in the very next chapter.

PAZ: Yeah, he had one moment of being decent, and then he's back to being a fool.

LIZ: Yeah. I do like seeing that push-pull of conflict there, because that's, you know, that's the whole crux of Fireheart being unsure. And I mean, it also makes Graystripe feel like, oh yeah, this is the friend that will die for me. But is he gonna pick me up from the airport? No.

PAZ: Yeah, it's like in the moment, yeah, he is like on top of it, but then when Fireheart confronts him later, he gets all like, pissy and evasive again.

JULIAN: Fireheart doesn't even confront him. He's just like hey, do you want to go hunting? And Graystripe is like, are you making sure I don't disappear again? And just like, and then Graystripe tries to play like he would have saved any clan cat's life, and he also would have told any clan cat that he would die for them.

PAZ: No biggie.

LIZ: Uh-huh, sure.

PAZ: Just clan things.

LIZ: Just clan things.

JULIAN: Sort out your shit, Graystripe

LIZ: I mean, also has-- there has to be someone out there who's written the like Fireheart like 500 word thing where he's wondering like, mm, why do I care so much about my best friend dating someone else? Clan loyalty aside. Wow, him being mean to me sure is very, very, very, very effective to me. Just bro things.

JULIAN: Just bro things.

LIZ: Just bro things.

PAZ: Yeah, don't worry about it.

LIZ: I don't care, except I do, a lot.

[rain clattering]

JULIAN: I am pulling up--

PAZ: It is storming.

JULIAN: Warrior Cats, the, um.

PAZ: What are you pulling up? Should I wait?

JULIAN: I'm pulling up Archive of--

PAZ: Oh yes.

JULIAN: I'm pulling up Ao3. Don't worry.

PAZ: No, I will wait to hear the statistics.

JULIAN: Oh, what did I-- I did this... How did I do this wrong?

PAZ: This is like a summer thunderstorm. So it'll probably be over in like half an hour. But I hope in that half an hour I don't lose power.

LIZ: Wild. Oh no.

JULIAN: What? There's only five fics?

PAZ: That can't be right.

LIZ: What?!

PAZ: No.

LIZ: No.

JULIAN: There's more Fireheart/Onewhisker than there is Fireheart/Graystripe.

PAZ: Did you just type the tag wrong? I refuse to believe that. I see so much fanart.

LIZ: Okay, I have a lot of respect for the former, but the latter just has the privilege of much more screentime.

JULIAN: Oh, I did it wrong. I did it wrong.

PAZ: Yeah. Okay. I'm like no, this is way more popular than that. There's AMVs for it. Look, listen.

JULIAN: Yeah, we've got 32.

PAZ: That's, you know. I feel like a lot of Warriors fic is-- was on fanfic.net, so.

JULIAN: Right. I also feel like a lot of people are writing like for canonical ships with Graystripe specifically, and also Fireheart, but.

PAZ: Yeah, but I know it is a popular pairing. For good reason.

LIZ: How many? How many are there with the correct tag?

JULIAN: There's only 32.

LIZ: That's a pretty decent amount for something that's probably not mainly on Ao3, and at this point pretty old. I don't know, what's not to love? You have friends to enemies to friends?

JULIAN: I mean, again, though, there are 25 Fireheart/Onewhisker fics.

PAZ: Listen, we got to ring the Fireheart/Onewhisker alarm bells again, because it comes up.

JULIAN: It really does.

PAZ: I think people are onto something, I'm just saying.

LIZ: Yeah, listen.

PAZ: But we'll get to that.

LIZ: We're putting a pin in that for later in the episode.

PAZ: Yes, but our--

JULIAN: I did like-- we're skipping around a little bit, or I'm skipping around a little bit. I did think that the discussion that the clan has about whether to keep Brokentail around is like... I thought that was interesting, even if there is some ableism in the way that they're like oh, he's not a threat anymore. But particularly in terms of like Fireheart feeling conflicted about how much he wants Brokentail to just be dead.

PAZ: And like the reason he stays is this like morality thing of like sending him off to die-- because apparently that's what happens if you're blind. Thanks Warriors-- in the forest is like.

LIZ: Not like there's-- oh my god.

PAZ: Yeah, but it's--

LIZ: It's not like there's no blind animals, or anything.

PAZ: I know. It's stupid.

LIZ: Ugh.

PAZ: But yeah, yeah, it's an interesting display of clan conflict management internally. I do want to note, it almost felt like Brokentail in the camp was less contentious than keeping Cloudkit, which is very funny to me.

JULIAN: God. No, you're right. It was less contentious.

PAZ: Right? There's no reason that keeping a dangerous ex-leader should be solved quicker than deciding to keep a small fluffy kitten.

JULIAN: Yeah.

LIZ: A kitten who's like--

JULIAN: Kittens eat less, for one thing.

LIZ: A kitten from, what they consider like the most least threatening place possible, which is like a pet, right? It's like do we keep this pet, who is a baby, or a war criminal?

PAZ: Yeah, there were like multiple people being like, saying like, we need to throw this child out into the woods to die. And it was like--

LIZ: We need to Victorian style expose this child.

PAZ: And there was only one quickly solved objection to keeping Brokentail.

JULIAN: God.

PAZ: On that topic, I also want to note that everyone was being like, Cloudkit's stupid because he has white fur in the previous set of readings. And then in this reading, it talks about how Frostfur has white fur. I was like, what is going on?

LIZ: Wait, so, so while they were saying that, do we just not see Frostfur being like, oh, I see how it is. Fucking bitches. Fucking babysit your own kids then.

PAZ: I feel like in this set of readings it points out her white fur like twice.

JULIAN: Like that's why she's named that.

LIZ: Yeah. She's not called Treefur. It's Frostfur.

PAZ: Oh my God.

JULIAN: God.

LIZ: They are cats. It's the limited object permanence thing. They're gonna talk shit, and they're gonna turn around and be like, oh, Frostfur, I'm so sorry. I do not mean you. Nothing but respect for-- nothing but respect for my queens.

JULIAN: Oh.

PAZ: Oh my gosh.

JULIAN: Well, I mean, in the next chapter, we do discover that Cloudkit is in fact very good at being a warrior.

PAZ: Yes, I love Cloudkit. He's so cute.

LIZ: He's just a little baby.

PAZ: And he makes bad little kid decisions, which is just cuter.

JULIAN: Yeah, he just wants to be a good part of the clan.

PAZ: I know.

LIZ: He's like, I will go grocery shopping in a blizzard.

JULIAN: Cloudkit coming back with two onions and a potato.

LIZ: Listen, that's like, what? Two latkes. I don't know. That's a lot of onion though. Two really big ones, onion heavy.

JULIAN: I do have a note about that this is what cat racism does. Because I do wonder like, obviously Cloudkit is like, his desire to like, prove himself is very cute. But I also wonder how much of it is him being like, well, if everyone's gonna say that I'm like, not fit to be a warrior, because I know they-- like he can hear them. How much of this is like him trying to prove that he can help provide for the clan?

PAZ: Yeah, I definitely think that's what's happening.

LIZ: Which is also sad.

JULIAN: Yeah, he's just a baby.

PAZ: Apparently, his siblings like him enough to go out into the blizzard with him, though, so there's that.

LIZ: I don't know how, like, their relationship is gonna turn out, or even if it's gonna be explored very much. But I do like the idea of like, here's my extremely extroverted sibling who at the age of baby just hunted a whole animal. And like the other siblings just like, oh, we're introverts or whatever.

JULIAN: Yeah, isn't he like four weeks old or something at this point?

PAZ: It's something like that. Maybe six weeks, I don't know.

LIZ: Just imagine the shape of this, the shape of this small baby.

PAZ: He's too small. I can't protect him.

JULIAN: And like I understand why Bluestar is very pissed, because it is bad if your kits wander out, um, but also like her being like, oh, it's against the warrior code. It's like where?

PAZ: Yeah, what? Where?

LIZ: They're babies. I don't think they know yet.

JULIAN: Point it out to me. Like, at what age are kits responsible for knowing the warrior code?

PAZ: Yeah, how--

JULIAN: Do they go to school?

PAZ: Do they?

LIZ: Are you teaching them ethics? They don't get any teachers besides basically PE coaches by the age of like 12.

PAZ: Yeah, I feel like you learn the warrior code when you're an apprentice.

JULIAN: Like are the queens supposed to be teaching them this in the nursery?

LIZ: The queens have degrees in ethics. They are teaching them right now. You just don't see it.

PAZ: Is this like child labor laws in the warrior code?

JULIAN: Kits cannot work in the mills.

LIZ: I don't care how tiny your beans are.

PAZ: Your paws may be able to reach between these-- I don't know-- twigs, but not allowed.

JULIAN: I just like, this isn't like-- not to make another Untamed reference-- but this isn't like, the warrior code is not like the fucking Lan clan rules that are up on a rock for everyone to look at.

PAZ: Maybe they are. It just hasn't mentioned it.

LIZ: It just seems like--

JULIAN: The cats have been able to read and write this whole time.

LIZ: They just don't want to cause they're all stupid jocks. But yeah, it just seems to be a general consensus thing that when you-- like if you break them and you're an adult, you get attacked. You get in a fight.

PAZ: Yeah, I don't even know.

LIZ: I don't know how much like, do they get like trials? I don't think? I don't remember.

PAZ: I have no fucking idea.

JULIAN: It's also interesting that like Fireheart is specifically like, oh, Graystripe broke the warrior code and like you didn't say shit about him.

PAZ: Yes, I love that line.

JULIAN: Which is very good. But also like he doesn't mention Yellowfang, who definitely broke the warrior code.

LIZ: Well, Fireheart respects girlbosses.

PAZ: She did that a long time ago.

JULIAN: Yeah, that's true.

PAZ: Yeah. But I want to read that sentence because it was really good. "Fireheart swallowed a pang of resentment as he thought of how shamelessly Graystripe, a clanborn cat, was disobeying the warrior code." Get his ass.

JULIAN: Shameless. Graystripe, you hussy.

LIZ: It's also a good little like, like that expression of actual anger against Bluestar for once, it's a good like-- it's a pretty clear way of showing that like, oh wow, it sucks to get like microaggressed. No?

PAZ: Yeah, and the fact that it's not just Fireheart being constantly microaggressed now too. It's like someone he cares about also going through it, I think is definitely--

LIZ: Who's a baby.

JULIAN: Who's a baby! Sorry, I do have a note about, are kittypets the model minority?

LIZ: Oh God.

JULIAN: Which is half a joke and half a like, you know, it does seem like they have to work twice as hard. Or like it's setting that up.

PAZ: Yeah, I don't remember what happens with Cloudkit's arc but if I-- I mean, I don't know because I never read it. But if I had to guess, it's probably gonna be that

JULIAN: Yeah, I super unfortunately do not remember and also did not register it when I read these books at age like 8, 11, somewhere in there, but.

LIZ: Well, I have the gift of prophecy as we know from the finale of our last book, so I'm gonna say that Cloudkit grows up to be like Cloudclaw.

PAZ: Whoa.

LIZ: Very fierce. Yeah. And he's like love some of you guys, hate the rest of you guys because you're extremely xenophobic. I'm out because I am an adult now. Going to found my own clan called Megaboneclan, only if you're hardcore. And not gonna be xenophobic to everyone. Can you come in? Yep, peace. I'm out. Uncle Fireheart, I'll FaceTime you later. Okay, bye.

PAZ: Okay, well, can't wait for that arc.

JULIAN: Perfect.

PAZ: I guess in conjunction with the Cloudkit stuff is like the scenes Fireheart gets with Sandstorm, which are good. I do love and also like, holy shit that it had to take Fireheart straight up saying to Bluestar, like, they should really be like warriors now for that to happen.

JULIAN: Yeah, Bluestar, do your job.

LIZ: I wondered if like how long it was taking was actually like going to be a plot point. But it just seems to be like oh, she's been busy.

JULIAN: Yeah, I kind of thought that it would end up being a plot point.

PAZ: Yeah, but what--

JULIAN: And I don't know if we'll like hear more about it later.

PAZ: What I know that I thought it could be a plot point in conjunction with hasn't really happened yet. So I don't know. But do you think if Fireheart hadn't said anything they would have been apprentices for another like three months?

LIZ: Oh my god. Sucks. Probably like another few days until the next battle happens, right?

PAZ: I don't even know.

JULIAN: Right? The pace of battles in this book is pretty high.

PAZ: Yeah, this book has way more battles. For sure.

JULIAN: Living up to my mom's nickname of Catfight, the series.

PAZ: I guess it makes sense though. Because now Fireheart is like a warrior and...

JULIAN: Right.

PAZ: Going into battle.

LIZ: I'm just, there's so many of them happening. Just imagine the noise of this book like if it was a movie. It would just be like, you know, when you hear cats fight in the alley at night, but like times 100.

JULIAN: Imagining that in surround sound. Incredible.

LIZ: 3D.

PAZ: I just keep thinking about how Harper Collins said no-- or like some of the mods said no violence on the official forums. Like, have you read the book?

JULIAN: Book two we get like, spine biting.

LIZ: God.

PAZ: Yeah. Graystripe finally kills someone. Like--

LIZ: On purpose?

PAZ: --I guess, on purpose directly. He has a high body count prior, as we know, but yeah, I guess he's killed someone before Fireheart has now, like in battle.

JULIAN: Yeah, has Fireheart actually killed anyone?

PAZ: No, I don't think so.

LIZ: I don't think so. He gets close a lot of times. And I'm getting some--

JULIAN: Right, his morals.

LIZ: Yeah, we're getting some conflicts about how like, it's like part of the warrior code is, you know, non lethal damage, apparently.

PAZ: But then no one cares that-- I don't even know. I don't know, because nobody really cares, like Graystripe killed Clawface or whatever. But I guess they were also rogues.

LIZ: Yeah, I don't know.

JULIAN: Is it like, you're only supposed to do non lethal damage to another clan cat?

PAZ: Geez. The implications of that.

LIZ: Interesting.

JULIAN: I'm so iffy on like, what the warrior code says, and also like, what the code of ethics in battle specifically is because like, there was that whole big deal in book one about how bad it was that like that like Redtail killed Oakheart or whatever. And then, in book two it's just like, yeah, you can kill whoever the fuck you want.

PAZ: Yeah, I don't. I have no idea.

JULIAN: I do wonder a little bit if there's anything thematic with the kind of breakdown, I guess, of the warrior code. Because it's like, also definitely against the warrior code to-- which we'll talk about more when we talk about like chapters 29 and 30. But like, definitely against the warrior code to team up with another clan and like attack people.

LIZ: Yeah, I feel like it could be leading up to that. And probably like in a future thing, like the younger generation could be like, this part of the warrior code sucks. We need to reform it and not really question it beyond that.

PAZ: Yeah, I have no idea.

LIZ: Yep, no idea.

PAZ: But that would make sense if it leads up to something like that.

LIZ: Um.

PAZ: Oh, go ahead.

LIZ: No, just wondering where we should go from here, if we're--

PAZ: I have the--

LIZ: If we've covered everything?

PAZ: The last thing is that the Spottedleaf stuff comes back very suddenly.

LIZ: Oh, yeah. Oh my god.

JULIAN: Yeah, it's really out of nowhere.

PAZ: I like legit forgot about her.

LIZ: Yeah, cause it's been like a whole book.

JULIAN: It's been a book and like, Fireheart hasn't thought about her once.

LIZ: No.

JULIAN: Like, I get he's been busy. He's had a lot on his mind. But like, for it to be like, oh, and here she is, like, helping him in battle and appearing to him in a dream. And it's like, yeah, hey, you could have like, dropped a hint about this earlier in the book.

LIZ: Absolutely.

JULIAN: Like maybe he feels a little sad to go to the medicine cat den to see Cinderpaw and be like, yeah, I love Yellowfang but damn, I miss Spottedleaf. You know, just a little something something.

LIZ: Yeah. And without that, it just ends up being really clumsy and not almost funny. Very funny.

PAZ: Very funny, too, because she's described like in a weird...

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: This is the sexy she-cat way.

LIZ: No one else gets treated like this.

PAZ: It's like her sweet scent, her soft pink nose. Like what is going on?

JULIAN: Not even Sandstorm, who's definitely getting the romance, like lead up is getting this kind of treatment. And it's like, what's happening?

PAZ: Yeah. It's so funny because it's literally only with her.

JULIAN: This is where I do admit that like me in fourth and fifth grade had a big old crush on Spottedleaf.

PAZ: I can't blame you.

JULIAN: And now I'm reading this book, and I'm like--

LIZ: It was shaped by that. This was written--

JULIAN: --where was this? Like, where did this come from?

PAZ: It's so weird. I don't know if they were like, we're just gonna be consistent with the writing from the first book.

LIZ: You didn't need to be. It's been a book. We wouldn't have remembered. I don't think you need to be able--

JULIAN: Well, it's also--

LIZ: No, go ahead.

JULIAN: Go ahead.

LIZ: No, if she's like a spirit, you don't have to smell her. I don't know.

PAZ: How are we supposed to know she's hot otherwise, Liz?

LIZ: Just talk about her like spots. That's what her name is. Her beautiful spots that remind me of a leaf.

JULIAN: It's also so weird that like all of this stuff, like all of their interactions, like the way that they like touch or whatever is like weirdly sensual, but like the rest of the cats are like, you know, licking and like... in like very nonsensual ways. Like when Sandstorm and Dustpelt become warriors, they lick Bluestar, and it's totally normal. It's treated as completely normal.

LIZ: Yeah, cause it's cat stuff.

JULIAN: Cause that's what cats do. But suddenly, when Spottedleaf is doing the licking, it's like ooooooh.

PAZ: I'm not even angry about it because it's hilarious.

LIZ: God, and we did mention Sandstorm being set up for the romantic interest thing. And it's like, putting those these side by side, there's such a comical difference. She's just like a normal person. She doesn't have a weird smell. I don't even know if we have a flattering description of her that isn't just normal.

PAZ: I mean, like the flattering descriptions of her are like she's really good at fighting.

LIZ: Yeah, and it's like that's nice. Like for a kids romance? Yeah. Kids book romance. Talk about how cool she is instead of what she smells like. What does she smell like? She's a cat.

PAZ: They're really struggling how to write this cat romance. Even though I think they figured it out with Sandstorm. I don't know why...

JULIAN: Well, you know, she smells like pine, mouse, and something uniquely Sandstorm.

PAZ: You mean Spottedleaf? Or wait.

JULIAN: Or Spottedleaf.

LIZ: God.

PAZ: So fucking funny. That's my new Etsy soap scent.

LIZ: Oh, I'm sorry. We have to take a break for a second for a very crucial search.

PAZ: Oh god.

JULIAN: Oh, I wonder if there are any-- while you do your search, I'm going to do mine.

LIZ: Well, it's a-- oh no. It's just soap shaped like cats.

PAZ: Damn.

JULIAN: Damn.

LIZ: I'm so disappointed.

JULIAN: I wanted to look to see if there were any Warrior Cats teas.

LIZ: Oh you're so right.

JULIAN: On that tea site that does the fandom teas. And great news, there are.

PAZ: Oh thank god.

LIZ: [claps] Yes.

JULIAN: They spelled Graystripe's name wrong, though.

LIZ: Is there a dash in between? Maybe it's a character development thing.

JULIAN: Oh, what's Bluestar's tea? Snowbud, white peony, and white blueberry, accented with coconut. That sounds bad.

PAZ: I don't know much about tea. But yeah.

LIZ: When have these British cats ever fucking even seen a coconut?

JULIAN: Oh, here's Ravenpaw, "a calming blend in honor of a nervous apprentice. Includes caramel, decaf vanilla, and mocha nut mate, accented with cocoa nibs."

LIZ: Decaf vanilla.

PAZ: That sounds okay. I think that's it for the first chunk.

JULIAN: Yep.

LIZ: I think so.

PAZ: Okay, well, I will go on to the summaries for the last two chapters. Okay, Chapter 29. The next day, Fireheart can't stop thinking about Spottedleaf's warning and her unique scent and Graystripe's loyalty. The snow has stopped. But Onewhisker from WindClan runs into the camp begging for help because RiverClan and ThunderClan are attacking WindClan.

LIZ: Oh.

PAZ: Bluestar gathers--

LIZ: Sorry, typo on my part. It's ShadowClan.

PAZ: Fuck. Yeah, okay. The snow has stopped, but Onewhisker from WindClan runs into the camp begging for help because RiverClan and ShadowClan are attacking WindClan. Bluestar gathers the clan and says they must help. There is little protest, but Tigerclaw steps in and says he agrees with Bluestar because ShadowClan and RiverClan might attack ThunderClan next. Yellowfang says Bluestar should remain at camp because of her health and Firestar-- bleagh. Fireheart knows it's also because of her last life.

Bluestar tells Tigerclaw to lead the attack parties. Whitestorm takes one party and Tigerclaw gathers warriors for the other, including Fireheart and Onewhisker. You know. Graystripe is with the other party, and Fireheart knows he'll have to choose sides now.

Soon after they leave, Willowpelt says they're being followed, but it turns out to be Cloudkit and Brindleface's kits again. Tigerclaw tests Fireheart's loyalty and says to deal with it, and Fireheart just asks Brackenpaw to take the kits home. Cloudkit protests, but Fireheart promises they'll fight together someday, ignoring the other warriors. Tigerclaw tells Fireheart to lead them to WindClan since he knows the way, and since he probably doesn't trust Onewhisker. Graystripe also knows the way but is too miserable to help. They arrive at the camp, where the battle is already taking place.

Chapter 30. At the battle, WindClan is totally outnumbered by ShadowClan and RiverClan. ThunderClan attacks and more enemy parties show up. As Fireheart battles a RiverClan cat, Onewhisker ends up finishing the fight for him. Fireheart in a totally normal bro way notices the fire in Onewhisker's eyes. In the middle of the battle, Fireheart sees a RiverClan cat about to attack Graystripe and wonders if he'll fight back. But he attacks a ShadowClan cat instead.

Tigerclaw calls out for Fireheart, who tries to get to him, but is attacked by a RiverClan cat, Leopardfur, who is RiverClan's deputy, who he'd met at the gorge where Whiteclaw died. Fireheart calls out to Tigerclaw for help, but he just watches. Fireheart is so angry that he can flip Leopardfur off. He and Tigerclaw give each other the stink eye before returning the battle.

While Fireheart fights a RiverClan cat, he is attacked by Silverstream. As she is about to claw him, Graystripe's voice stops her. Fireheart instinctively attacks when she backs down, but sees Graystripe watching and can't bring himself to hurt Silverstream. She slips away, and Fireheart sees Darkstripe watching him. ShadowClan is eventually driven off, leaving RiverClan alone Fireheart sees Tigerclaw tackle the ShadowClan leader, Crookedstar, going for his neck. He doesn't kill Crookedstar, but ends the battle, and they flee.

Fireheart wonders briefly about Spottedleaf's prophecy about how fire will save the clan. He also thinks about Spottedleaf's warning about warriors he can't trust and finally realizes that that meant Tigerclaw, the guy who loves murder and he knows did at least one murder, and not Graystripe. Tigerclaw confronts Fireheart about letting Silverstream escape, and Fireheart asks if he wanted him to kill her. Tigerclaw also makes insinuations about Graystripe's loyalty, and they both see him return, presumably from checking on Silverstream. When he leaves, Graystripe and Fireheart finally talk about his conflicted feelings, and Fireheart promises he will always be Graystripe's friend. And that is the end of the book.

LIZ: My god.

JULIAN: Action-packed chapters.

PAZ: So much happens. Man, WindClan is literally just minding their own business.

LIZ: It feels like WindClan is like 10 people, and they're just like oh God. Should we move back?

PAZ: Leave them alone. I'm like extra defensive of them because they're my favorite clan, but like what?

JULIAN: Literally, they're just vibing.

PAZ: Yeah, at the gathering, Tallstar was like, y'all are freaks. We're leaving, bye.

LIZ: Do you think they went in going like, Gee, I wonder what everyone else is doing? It sure is great that we solve that whole clan being driven out thing. Let's go see our good friends who helped us. Oh, okay. Mm.

JULIAN: I also don't understand like, just from setting aside morals, as we do in the Warrior Cats books. And from a purely like, you know, political/logistical perspective, why would they go after WindClan who has like two rabbits and not ThunderClan?

PAZ: I have no idea. I assume in the next book we'll find out why the fuck they did that, but.

JULIAN: Like I guess it is like, they're easier targets, but like, it just doesn't seem worth it.

PAZ: Yeah, I think on the way to WindClan's camp, Fireheart notes like there is fucking nothing here.

JULIAN: Like their camp is like a slight hollow in the moor. It's a bunch of gorse.

LIZ: And that's an improvement from the sewer.

JULIAN: Like this is not going to solve RiverClan's food problem.

LIZ: No.

PAZ: No, they can't even catch the rabbits, as we learned in the beginning of the book.

JULIAN: It is very-- the Fireheart/Onewhisker content in these chapters is extremely good

PAZ: It's real. I was doubting it when it first came up from whatever we were searching that.

JULIAN: Yeah, no, I thought it was kind of a crack ship.

PAZ: No.

JULIAN: But no, I'm on board.

PAZ: I'm on board too.

LIZ: If their clans keep consorting, you never know. Maybe in book 3, the political marriage of convenience will be real.

PAZ: Yeah, can't rule it out.

LIZ: Yeah. No.

JULIAN: Like, they're battle husbands.

PAZ: Yeah, I can't remember. Did Onewhisker jump in to get a cat off Fireheart or help him or something?

LIZ: Yeah, yeah. I also didn't put it in the summary. But there's a part where like, I think Tigerclaw is asking, like, what Onewhisker's name is, and Onewhisker is so intimidated that Fireheart just does it for him.

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Yeah, it's really good.

PAZ: It's good. I hope we keep seeing content for them. I feel like I remember vaguely the Onewhisker arc. Can't be sure though.

JULIAN: Yeah. My note for the beginning of chapter 29 is just, Fireheart, go help your boyfriend. It is interesting. Like, Tigerclaw is right for once, even if it's just because he wants to fight and kill. So it does make him slightly more complex as a villain that he's like--

PAZ: I feel like he's been right a lot. Multiple times in this book.

JULIAN: Yeah, no, you're right.

LIZ: It's so interesting to me because for a lot of the times, Fireheart is agreeing with him.

PAZ: Yeah. And it kind of almost points it out or, like, comes back to it in this chapter about how like, it has made Fireheart forget that like, wait, he's a horrible murderer. But Fireheart remembers that when Tigerclaw tries to murder him. Got a little refresher.

LIZ: That's all it took.

JULIAN: Tigerclaw at it again.

PAZ: Tigerclaw, he really tries to murder indirectly so much. His success rate is not great. But God, is he trying.

LIZ: A for effort.

JULIAN: Um, like a little bit before that, we do get some kind of setting up their conflict when Tigerclaw is like shitty to Fireheart about Cloudkit trying to follow them out. Like, when Fireheart has Brackenpaw send Cloudkit and the other kits back, Tigerclaw is like, "Oh, I didn't think you'd be so keen to fight this battle." And it's like, why would he not? He likes WindClan. But then the-- "Fireheart stared at Tigerclaw and felt the blood pulse through him so his whole body throbbed with rage. 'If only you were keen too,' he retorted, 'you'd give the battle cry instead of keeping us here while WindClan warriors die.'"

LIZ: Get him.

JULIAN: Like right in front of everybody.

PAZ: Yeah, that was a really good scene.

LIZ: Very cathartic.

PAZ: Yeah, I do love Fireheart like, standing up to him.

JULIAN: Yeah, it's good. I do wonder if Tigerclaw would have been so eager to let him die if he hadn't.

PAZ: I feel like Tigerclaw's consistently not liked him, though. So.

JULIAN: That's true.

PAZ: And also I think Tigerclaw's pretty sure like Fireheart knows or something.

JULIAN: Right, I forgot about the whole Ravenpaw situation.

LIZ: He's also made a lot of like insinuations about Fireheart's loyalty specifically when RiverClan comes up, and I wonder if there's like, if he thinks something else about what happened there, or if he's mistaking, like, I don't know, Fireheart for being like the spy or something that RiverClan talked about. Cause he's like--

PAZ: I feel like he knows it's Graystripe, though.

LIZ: Yeah, like by the end, I think that's it, but I don't know. Maybe it's just like, themes.

JULIAN: Yeah, definitely. He's definitely like making a lot of insinuations. He loves-- he loves to do murder and he loves to insinuate.

LIZ: It's very fun to read.

PAZ: Yeah, I'm excited for that conflict to continue. Tigerclaw is such a good fun villain.

LIZ: Yeah, I can't believe they didn't get him, though. By the end of this book.

JULIAN: I know. The moment, where like, he's just standing there watching Fireheart get like his belly clawed is so good.

LIZ: Yeah, it's a great, like, the way the scene is written is really good.

JULIAN: Like, in general, the battle scenes are like, you know, very well written. I understand why all of the RPs were like 90% battle scenes by volume.

LIZ: They're very good action scenes.

JULIAN: Yeah, which is hard to write.

LIZ: Yeah, they're cut, like, cut through with like these, I guess bullet time like, personal character conflicts that like really give it a little extra flavor, so it's not like a slog. It's like, so much stuff is happening now. I have to deal with this? Oh, boy. In a good way.

JULIAN: Yeah, no, they do a good job of making the fight scenes also deal with like character's emotional arcs.

PAZ: Yeah, it's like the fight scenes are used to, like drive the personal plots forward, I feel like. Gotta say, though, Fireheart taking Spottedleaf's warning to be not clearly about Tigerclaw. I was like, Oh my god.

LIZ: Oh my God.

JULIAN: I mean, I gotta say, I wasn't sure it was about Tigerclaw because I had also been lulled into a false sense of security by Tigerclaw being mostly normal.

PAZ: Oh, I was like--

JULIAN: Throughout this book.

PAZ: I was like, it's fucking Tigerclaw.

JULIAN: I thought it might be Onewhisker like for a little bit.

PAZ: No.

JULIAN: Because there's a portion in the book where like Tigerclaw seems to doubt that Onewhisker will lead them to the camp. And I was like, Oh shit, is it a trap?

PAZ: I have no doubt about Onewhisker.

JULIAN: I doubted him.

PAZ: Oh my gosh.

LIZ: That would have been very tasty, though. Just like, my good friend, who I saved, who seems to be an upstanding young gentleman? Oh, the betrayal. What are these conflicted feelings I have? I won't think about them. Except I will.

PAZ: No, I also was just like I didn't suspect it because I'm like WindClan is just staying in their lane. Like, why would they fake this?

LIZ: If we want to go full AU, it could be like oh, WindClan was like, had their hand forced, and now all the three clans, two willingly, are converging on ThunderClan. But that's-- I don't know. That's just, it's not as interesting to me.

PAZ: No.

JULIAN: Yeah, no, I was fully as dumb as Fireheart, despite having read this book before.

PAZ: Okay, Fireheart gets a pass, then.

LIZ: Fireheart speaks to a certain little dumb cell in all our brains at some point. That's why he's so relatable. And also, it's like you said, Tigerclaw is being so normal throughout most of the book. He did just become mean teacher again, instead of like, evil war criminal.

JULIAN: He was saving it up for the last two chapters.

LIZ: It's his ult.

PAZ: Gotta press Q for Tigerclaw.

LIZ: Press Q for war crime.

PAZ: Oh my gosh.

JULIAN: The bit with like Silverstream and Graystripe is, you know, there it is.

PAZ: Yeah, Graystripe sure is gonna keep causing problems, huh?

LIZ: Mm-hmm. It's like, I'm not mad that it's happening, but we haven't seen anything of them. So it's just like a plot point rather than any investment, which is kind of what it's for, I guess.

PAZ: Yeah, I don't think we're like, we're not supposed to sympathize with Graystripe. So probably why it's not super shown.

LIZ: No.

PAZ: I mean, like, not completely sympathize.

JULIAN: We're not supposed to. That doesn't stop like most of the fandom.

PAZ: Oh no.

JULIAN: At least like what I-- I'm sure that there were like, opposing camps. But what I saw of it was very much like Graystripe did nothing wrong.

PAZ: Well, I'm here to say in 2021, Graystripe did a lot of things wrong.

JULIAN: Because we were all 12 and thought that being in love meant you didn't have any responsibilities.

LIZ: And you know, at 12, you're allowed to do that. Go on.

PAZ: I'm sure it'll all end fine.

JULIAN: Definitely, definitely nothing will go wrong. I do have a note.

LIZ: Yeah, absolutely.

JULIAN: There's a moment where, like, Tigerclaw is attacking Crookedstar, the RiverClan leader. And like, he like bites Crookedstar's neck. And then there's a moment that it's like, "Crookedstar's pained screech told Fireheart that Tigerclaw had missed the spine." And it's like, oh geez.

LIZ: Jesus.

PAZ: These cats are fucking each other up.

JULIAN: Tigerclaw loves to try to kill leaders.

PAZ: I read that as him like purposely not killing him. But.

JULIAN: No, I think you're right.

PAZ: You know? He's probably really considering it.

LIZ: Mm hmm. If it was just like--

JULIAN: He doesn't get to do any murders.

LIZ: Yeah. Okay, I'm looking at the summary here. I didn't really write much about the prophecy because the summary's already pretty long. But we should probably recap because I think that was way from the beginning of the book, if not further back.

PAZ: The fire prophecy?

LIZ: Yeah, it's like how fire will save ThunderClan.

PAZ: Yeah, that's from the first book, but I think it was reiterated at the top in this book.

LIZ: Yes, so I think Fireheart thinks that fire refers to Tallstar, who just looks so cool and handsome in the sunlight. And then he's like, is it? Is it really him though? Because WindClan is doing so bad. So Fireheart, our protagonist, who's orange, is like, I got to think about this. That's it.

PAZ: He has a lot of other things on his mind.

JULIAN: He's a sweet boy.

PAZ: He doesn't know yet he's the protagonist.

LIZ: That's true. He doesn't have that meta brain, which is better. Fireheart turns to look directly at the reader. What else is there? I guess we could talk about the last scene.

PAZ: Yeah, where like Fireheart and Graystripe kind of make up.

LIZ: Yeah. I think it's sweet.

JULIAN: Yeah.

PAZ: Yeah, it was sweet.

JULIAN: It's like a pretty abrupt ending, I feel like.

LIZ: Mm-hmm.

PAZ: Yeah.

LIZ: How did the last one end? Like the last book, I don't quite remember.

PAZ: I feel like it was them being made warriors, right?

JULIAN: Um, let's see. Yeah, the last scene is them becoming warriors.

PAZ: I mean, like one thing about Fire and Ice, I think, is it had less of an overarching plot. It was like a lot of little plot threads, I feel like, because like we said, Tigerclaw wasn't really being the central villain in it.

JULIAN: Yeah, it definitely feels like it's setting up a lot of stuff for like later books, in a way that-- which makes sense based on what we've read about how the first book was kind of originally supposed to be standalone.

LIZ: Yeah. It's definitely widened like the circle of characters and just places a lot.

PAZ: Yeah, I don't think it's bad. It just like, I guess it would lead to a less decisive ending because it's like, well, a lot of stuff came up, and nothing really got solved yet. So.

JULIAN: Yeah, it is nice to like, wrap up on this Fireheart-Graystripe scene.

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: When their conflict/relationship has been such a throughline.

PAZ: Yeah, I do. That's like the major throughline for sure is Fireheart and Graystripe. I mean, on the old version of the cover, that's the little picture is them sitting next to each other.

LIZ: Aw.

PAZ: In front of the moon.

LIZ: Aww.

JULIAN: Yeah, it's a good cover.

PAZ: Yeah, it is.

JULIAN: The original one.

LIZ: I also like seeing the two endings compared to each other because it's like, when they're kids and the ending is them. But you know, they're on good terms. And then when they're a little older, it's still them, but it's much more difficult.

PAZ: Yeah, that's a good mirror ending.

JULIAN: Man, I forgot how much fighting cats is on the cover of the...

PAZ: Yeah, I have. I have my like, old book with the old cover. I think the scene behind them is just the final battle at WindClan.

JULIAN: Yeah, here. I'm going to upload it to the server so you can see it, Liz.

LIZ: Oh, yeah. Wow. I love that.

JULIAN: They're just fighting.

LIZ: I love the background too. It's very, well, evocative of the title, but that's like good color contrast.

JULIAN: Yeah, it's nice.

LIZ: Oh, you guys gotta see the Polish cover for Fire and Ice.

PAZ: Ooh.

JULIAN: Oh, please show us.

LIZ: It is not what you're expecting.

[laughter]

JULIAN: Oop!

PAZ: It's uh, it's Graystripe and Silverstream, I think, being...

JULIAN: They're just, uh--

PAZ: Oh my god, look at Fireheart way in the background.

JULIAN: Wait. Oh no!

[laughter]

PAZ: Just like Graystripe and Silverstream at the front doing a little like cat affectionate headbutt, and then way in the background, very distant, is little orange Fireheart.

LIZ: [wheezing] I'm crying.

JULIAN: The artist for the Polish books was like, they shipped it.

PAZ: Yeah, they fucking did, apparently. They were like, uh...

JULIAN: They were like, Graystripe and Silverstream are in love. Fuck y'all.

LIZ: Listen, Polish cover artist, you follow your heart. They gave Graystripe this very like-- these are-- I want to reiterate the style of this, which is just kind of like normal cats but a little more expressive. Like they made Graystripe look very like, romantic interest, handsome face.

JULIAN: Yeah, this is-- he's got like, luxurious chest fur.

PAZ: Big ol face.

LIZ: It's very funny. [laughing] Fireheart just way in the back. Little speck.

PAZ: Oh god. I don't know if I have anything else to add right now.

JULIAN: Oh, I do really quickly want to-- while we're looking at covers, the simplified Chinese cover is very good.

LIZ: Oh, boy.

PAZ: Oh, I love that.

LIZ: [gasps] Oh wow. Who is that?

JULIAN: It's got-- yeah, it's Fireheart but drawn with the roundest face in the world, kind of emerging from like, between branches above the snow. It's really good colors.

LIZ: This cover gives me the vibe of like those-- when you're like a kid, you read books about animals, but like, they're just regular ones and not like, society ones. And it's about surviving winter.

PAZ: Yeah, that's exactly the vibe.

JULIAN: Yeah, it definitely has the vibe of like, I feel like children's book covers from the 80s were all like-- or like a lot of them were like, painted in a way, like a very specific way. And this gives me those vibes. Strong use of shadow. Anyway.

PAZ: I mean, is that it?

JULIAN: Yeah, I don't have anything else.

PAZ: I still have to decide if we're gonna do like a wrap up episode. I don't know, could be fun. We could read Graystripe hate.

[giggling]

JULIAN: Oh my god.

LIZ: Oh, the one we wrote, you mean?

JULIAN: Oh, it would be fun-- I can like do some digging on the forums and see if I can find any like old discussions of Graystripe/Silverstream.

PAZ: Yeah, that would be great. Um, I don't know if we're gonna do the second segment in this episode because it was pretty long, like set of chapters. And I haven't eaten dinner, so.

JULIAN: Oh, no!

LIZ: We can end it now. I do have one last cover for us to close out with. So this is, according to my very quick google search, is the Fire and Ice UK cover. And--

PAZ: Oh, what?

LIZ: Here it is. [laughing]

PAZ: What is this font?

LIZ: I think one of them is Papyrus.

JULIAN: It's not Papyrus, but it's like a very, like, jokey--

LIZ: It's very close.

JULIAN: Like handwriting font.

PAZ: It's in the Nickelodeon slime color. I want to be clear.

JULIAN: So the top of the cover is just like a very HDR picture of a cat. Just like eyes to nose. I assume it's supposed to be Graystripe. It's a gray cat. Bright yellow eyes. And then against a white background, Warriors: Fire and Ice. In the Nickelodeon slime font. And then in this sort of vaguely Old English font, "friend or foe? One cat must decide." And then a little picture of an icy river.

LIZ: Beautiful.

JULIAN: I love the splash text.

LIZ: [dramatically] "Friend or foe? One cat must decide." And he has to take the whole book.

JULIAN: Cause that's not what's happening.

LIZ: No.

JULIAN: Oh. Also Erin Hunter's name in this is in all lowercase in this font that reminds me very strongly of like--

PAZ: Twilight?

JULIAN: YA romance novels.

PAZ: It reminds me of Twilight somehow.

LIZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Yeah, I think it's the long-- the H has like a really long swoosh to it.

PAZ: The fact that there are three distinct fonts on this cover that in no way match.

JULIAN: Graphic design is our passion.

PAZ: Oh, God.

JULIAN: Wait, if this is the UK cover, were the books published in the-- the writers are British!

PAZ: Maybe, I don't know. It's a special cover.

LIZ: Didn't we cover this? Didn't-- yes. Although it does say this is sourced from Pinterest. So I couldn't tell you.

PAZ: Mm, okay, I don't know.

LIZ: Okay, let me double check.

JULIAN: Let me look at the wiki, because they have all the covers also.

LIZ: [typing] Ice UK. I'm getting conflicting theories here.

PAZ: Oh my gosh.

LIZ: Well, it's beautiful to me regardless. It's real in my heart.

JULIAN: No, I'm seeing it on the wiki as the English language, the UK edition.

PAZ: What happened?

JULIAN: And then there's an alternate version with the US cover, but bad.

PAZ: Oh my god.

LIZ: No.

JULIAN: It's like the US cover but they messed up all the sizes and also desaturated the battle scene so it's like really yellow instead of red. It's bad to look at.

LIZ: Oh yeah, I see it. It's not good.

PAZ: How did they mess up the--

JULIAN: I don't like it. I mean, it's not awful, but it's just like, not as good.

PAZ: Oh, I see it. It's not as good at all.

LIZ: That's like a Photobooth filter. They put a little frame around Fireheart and Graystripe there.

PAZ: Yeah, they went to the photo booth together.

LIZ: Aw, they're making up. Bluestripe. Sorry, Blue, Blueheart. Bluestar. Wow, I went through a lot of them there. Bluestar took them both aside to say, I hate it when you guys fight. I got you tickets to the county fair. Go have fun.

JULIAN: Sorry, I know we're just talking about covers now. I do-- the Japanese version.

PAZ: Oh, yeah. I love all the Japanese covers.

LIZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: Which has Graystripe and Silverstream sitting next to each other but they're drawn. [laughs] They're drawn in just such a style.

PAZ: It's a very fun style. It's not a bad style.

JULIAN: It's very good. No, I love it. It's very charming. Like they're a little cockeyed. It's very folk art-y. And there's like a little red moon? Sun? Question mark? Behind them.

LIZ: Graystripe is extremely fluffy in this one, but he looks very well groomed. Like he just combed himself for his date.

PAZ: He probably did.

JULIAN: He's gotta get smooth. He's gotta get silky.

LIZ: Yeah, if you put this on, like, a dinnerware set, I'd be like, cute.

PAZ: Yeah?

JULIAN: Yeah, I would buy a mug with this on it.

PAZ: But is that is that gonna do for us, you think, for Fire and Ice? Well, for now, maybe.

JULIAN: Yep.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: All right. And as always, you can find the show @staircast on twitter.com. Send in questions, stairwaytostarclan@gmail.com.

JULIAN: Tell us how you feel about Graystripe and Silverstream.

PAZ: Yeah, you know what, maybe write in.

LIZ: Wait.

PAZ: Maybe, maybe, on our maybe book wrap up podcast, we'll get into that.

LIZ: And if you-- while you're on Twitter looking for us, if you want to find a high res-- well, a middle res glossy JPEG of that Silverstream and Graystripe Polish cover in wallpaper size, you totally can. You just have to Google it. And it shows right up. It's like the first result. So for the fans out there, I hope you find it.

PAZ: Well, yeah, I think--

JULIAN: We can also tweet it.

PAZ: We can do that, maybe, if we remember. But I do want to hear everyone's Graystripe thoughts now.

JULIAN: Yeah. Tell us how you feel about everyone's worst friend. Not to bias the audience.

PAZ: We would never. But other than that, that's gonna do it for us. So until next time, may StarClan light your path. Bye.

JULIAN: Bye.

LIZ: Bye.

[outro music]

[blackbirdpaw]

Dovewing isn't a Mary Sue

Introduction:

Mary Sues are a common term used in all kinds of fandom. This is, of course, when a character is utterly perfect and flawless. No one likes these kind of characters. After all, the purpose of a character is for character development, and that can't be done with perfection. We like a character because we can understand and relate to them; we sympathise with them. That can't be done with a Mary sue. They're regarded as a "cringey" oc (man, I hate cringe culture.) Either way, they're a problem, especially in published books which people are getting paid for writing. There are a few commonly labeled Mary Sues in Warriors, and while there are certainly some, many of the commonly labeled ones are actually not, in fact  Mary Sues, or at least not in my opinion.

Reasons why she's considered a Mary Sue, and how I counter them.

1.) She's considered a Sue because she's in a prophecy.

Usually Mary Sue oc's and characters are involved in some form of prophecy or omen, or something bigger. They're often the "special" ones, the chosen ones. So of course Dovewing is seen as a Sue - she's instantly more powerful and special than the rest.

Being in a prophecy alone doesn't make a character a Sue. Take Harry Potter. He's a chosen one; part of a prophecy. But Harry is far from perfect, having negative personality traits such as anger (and taking in out on his friends; a relation to his childhood trauma from abuse) and the prophecy certainly had some negative effects.

In Dovewing's case, this prophecy is not a blessing. It causes significant her significant distress on many occasions. She ends up being a product of this prophecy, defining herself (and Jayfeather and Lionblaze saw her as this) as just a cat with powers in a prophecy. Nothing more. And it tears apart the most important relationship in her life - her relationship with her sister. Ivypool's jealousy broke their relationship. Reasonable jealousy, I'll add, but jealousy nonetheless. Jealousy that stemmed from a prophecy in which Dovewing had no control over.

2.) She acts as if she has to protect everyone.

This is a rather common trope, Firestar exhibits this, Harry Potter exhibits this, etc, etc. This is regarded as a Sue trait because it's the whole "I want to save the world!!" superhero-good type thing. This can be considered rather boring and just that bit too perfect, because it's such a common and "extreme good" trait.

The thing is, while it is common and kind of boring, it's very human. Imagine if you had powers. Wouldn't you feel the same want to save the world? You've been blessed with powers, a gift! Don't you want to protect and save everyone? Not to mention this is part of the warrior code - Clan before self. It only makes sense considering normal behaviour and environment for Dovewing to think this way. And anyway, couldn't this entitlement be considered a flaw?

3.) Two toms fall in love with her. Having many love interests is often a trait linked to being Mary Sue, especially when a love triangle is involved. And this, of course, happened to Dovewing. I mean, here we go, a female protagonist; the boys just fall at her feet! And she's in love with both of them, oh my god!!

Here's the deal: multiple love interests does not equal a Mary Sue. Yes, most Sues do have many in love with them, but that in itself does not make for a Sue. Same goes for love triangles. And you'll notice that many other characters have had multiple love interests. Clear Sky and Gray Wing had three! Lionblaze had two! Squirrelflight had two!(Three, including Stormfur.) Graystripe had two, Crowfeather had three. And Dovewing's love triangle may not have actually been a true love triangle. After all, did she really have feelings for Bumblestripe? No. She was friends with him, and maybe she even wanted to love him, but she never did.

4.) Having powers; angsting about having them and angsting losing them.

This angsting business is often carried out by Mary Sues. They're a poor, tortured individual who's life is so sad; their purpose to make the reader feel sorry and relate to them.

Here's the deal, angst is normal. It's common. We've all dealt with teenage angst. Angst in itself isn't a Mary Sue trait. When it's handled badly, such as in Dovewing's case, that's when it starts to border into Sue territory. That isn't necessarily a bad character trait, but instead a fault of the writer. And as for Dovewing, she has a reason for all this angst. Her power caused her nothing but problems. It ruined her relationship with Ivypool, the cat she was closest too. Her power too, was remarkably unpleasant. She was subject to constant sensory overload - and as someone who gets sensory overload frequently, (albeit minor sensory overload) it really is horrible. And for Dovewing it was constant. It affected everything she did. Of course she was going to complain about it. Wouldn't you? But her power also ended up conflicting with her moral beliefs. She hated spying on others, she protested against it multiple times. Yet Jayfeather and Lionblaze forced her to, and accidentally did as she can't control what she hears, many times. That may not seem big, but think of something you're morally against. Eating meat, racism, ableism, etc. And then imagine having to go against that. Yeah. It wouldn't be fun. And there she goes, complaining again when her powers go. If they're so horrible, surely it's a blessing when they go away. But not exactly. It would feel like losing your sight, your limbs, your hearing. She has to live in a world and adapt to the sudden change, and it would feel terrible. Like being plunged underwater. All that overload was stripped away, and she was left essentially deaf. It affected her hunting, and all kinds of daily life. She could, after all, see what she could hear, so it affected her sight too.

5.) She was the Clan's favourite.

Once again, a common Mary Sue trait: being the favourite and loved by everyone. Yes, this is undeniably a sign of being a Sue, but it depends on the way this favouritism is portrayed.

Dovewing was indeed the favourite. But did that favouritism be portrayed negatively? Did it have consequences for Dovewing? Of course. The ruined relationship with Ivypool, for one. This favouritism was blatantly shown as favouritism; shown exactly as it is. Not to mention that she did earn it. Her powers most certainly aided her, but she utilised it for her hunting, which was why the Clan loved her - her hunting skills. She could hear more, yes, but it was through her own skill that she could catch and kill prey accurately, that she could be fast enough. I mean, it's like how some people are naturally talented, or skilled. They worked hard to harness their gift. They deserve recognition, and the same goes for Dovewing. Her power gave her an advantage but she was the one who worked it and out the skill into it.

Conclusion:

In conclusion, Dovewing carries many Mary Sue traits, but she was actually not a Mary Sue. As these traits do not inherently make a character a Mary Sue. Dovewing is a good character, she really is. She was written badly - like a bad fanfiction author. Any good character can be absolutely butchered by the writer. That doesn't make Dovewing a bad character, she's just a victim of bad writing.

[staircasttext]

Ep 08 Transcript: Twenty to Thirty Feral Cats

Episode 8

[intro music]

PAZ: Hi everyone. Welcome back again to Stairway to StarClan, a Warrior Cats reread pawdcast. I'm Paz.

JULIAN: I'm Julian.

LIZ: And I'm Liz.

PAZ: And I did almost forget the name of our podcast in the middle of saying that. So off to a strong start. Yeah, we are here today starting Fire and Ice, the second book in-- I guess it's just called the... I've also forgotten what the first books--

JULIAN: I think it's The Prophecy Begins is the name of the series.

PAZ: That is. I have my old version so I don't think it even says that. I mean, I guess I should say this is the book at which I have never read past for The Prophecy Begins, so this is uncharted territory for me in terms of details of what happens, beyond just like broad plot points. So that's exciting.

JULIAN: Yeah, we're also getting into the-- like, I read all these books multiple times, but I don't remember what happens in which book, so.

PAZ: Yeah, like some of the major plot points I know that do come up, I've been trying to figure out like what book I think that happens in. I'm like, I have no fucking clue. I don't really even know-- well, I know it's in this book but I don't know if that will just be the whole book. Well anyway, we read it. We started reading it. We're all gonna find out together. Anyone else want to add anything before the summaries?

LIZ: Yeah, I want to look for one second at the Allegiances area, cause there's some great descriptions. "Fireheart, handsome ginger tom. Graystripe, long-haired solid gray tom." Why is he called Graystripe then? What the fuck?

JULIAN: I always thought all the official art was like wrong because he didn't have any stripes in it. But it turns out that fuckin apparently he doesn't have stripes.

LIZ: What?

PAZ: Are they like metaphorical stripes. What happened?

LIZ: Are they military stripes?

PAZ: Oh no.

JULIAN: Maybe they thought the stripes would kind of like come in when he got older.

PAZ: Wow, Bluestar's really betting on that, huh? Didn't happen.

LIZ: She's playing the long game. You know, she's just got that big mastermind brain. Except when she doesn't. There's one more and it's for one of the the older cats, and it's gonna come up later. Let me see here. Yeah, there's Dappletail, "a once-pretty tortoiseshell she-cat with a lovely dappled coat." They do this to her at least two times. She was once beautiful. Hey. Come on.

PAZ: It reminds me of that Cats character.

JULIAN: Oh yeah, fuckin...

PAZ: The one who sings Memory.

JULIAN: Grizabella, the glamour cat.

PAZ: Yeah, Dappletail the glamour cat.

JULIAN: What do you have against aging gracefully, Erin Hunter?

LIZ: Yeah, all cats are beautiful to me.

JULIAN: All cats are queens.

PAZ: Yes.

JULIAN: Including Dappletail.

PAZ: Yes. I think old cats can be very cute.

LIZ: Yeah, again, look at Chloe.

JULIAN: Chloe.

LIZ: Chloe.

JULIAN: I was also excited to see in the Allegiances that Barley, Smudge, and Ravenpaw are all listed.

PAZ: Yes.

LIZ: Yay.

JULIAN: Spoilers, I guess, but it's also in the front of the book, so.

LIZ: Spoilers.

PAZ: Yeah, they do that sometimes. They do that every time. Aw, Smudge's description is so cute. "Plump, friendly black and white kitten who lives in the house at the edge of the forest."

JULIAN: I don't think he's a kitten anymore.

LIZ: No.

JULIAN: He and Fireheart are the same age.

PAZ: Well, his balls are gone so he's an everkit or whatever the hell that was.

LIZ: Is that what happened?

PAZ: We found that like cat slur somewhere.

LIZ: That doesn't mean he stops aging.

PAZ: Well, I don't know. I don't know what perspective Allegiances is written from.

LIZ: You know, whoever wrote this, hundreds of years in the cat future, the weird archivist doing this had some very strange views about age. You know, after cats have learned to write.

JULIAN: Right.

PAZ: Yeah, right.

JULIAN: With their little paws.

PAZ: Oh my god, there's a RiverClan person called Loudbelly.

LIZ: Aw.

JULIAN: I love that.

LIZ: So good.

PAZ: That's a great name.

LIZ: Wait. Right below is there's a warrior called Whiteclaw.

PAZ: The description is just "a dark warrior." Period.

JULIAN: Why is he fucking named Whiteclaw?

LIZ: Maybe he's got little white socks.

JULIAN: Oh, that would be good.

PAZ: Oh, yes. I like that.

LIZ: Or maybe he just you know, likes hard seltzer.

JULIAN: I feel like hard seltzer didn't exist as a thing when this was written in like...

PAZ: No. Two thousand--

JULIAN: 2005 or whatever.

PAZ: Yeah. Okay, when did this come out? I think it might have actually come out the same year as the first one or like the year immediately after.

LIZ: Really.

PAZ: It came out, like really close together. I remember being--

LIZ: If you poured like vodka into a carbonator, would that be anything? Is that scientifically like viable?

JULIAN: Oh, yeah. Publish date 27 May 2003. Um, let's see. Carbonated vodka. I don't know if the alcohol would hold carbonation well.

LIZ: Probably not.

JULIAN: Um, nope. Someone did put-- here's a YouTube video. Someone put vodka in their Sodastream. Uh, yeah, it's possible. I think it probably doesn't taste good.

LIZ: No.

PAZ: I don't think you should carbonate anything. That's my stance.

JULIAN: You don't like the bubbles?

PAZ: No, I don't.

LIZ: Give them to me.

JULIAN: I love the sharp water.

LIZ: Me too, handshake.

PAZ: I don't like the bone hurting juice.

LIZ: I don't know. It feels-- sometimes your bones need some hurting. It's medicinal.

PAZ: Mmkay. Anyway, I think we're-- oh yes.

JULIAN: We've gotten wildly off topic.

LIZ: But just as a heads up, it's currently thundering where I live, so adds to the vibe, but also--

JULIAN: It'll be atmospheric.

LIZ: Yeah. But if you hear any, like rumbling in the background, I hope you don't, but that's what it is.

PAZ: I hope your power stays on.

LIZ: Me too.

PAZ: Well, let's dive into this then, just to get into it. Okay, so moving on to the summaries. This week, we read the prologue through chapter 3 of Fire and Ice. So the prologue opens on an unknown group of cats huddled near the Thunderpath within range of a Twoleg campfire. The cats are led by Tallstar, revealing them to be the exiled WindClan cats. The WindClan cats are still searching for a new home since being driven from their territory. The other cats in the clan voiced their concerns for themselves and the kits, but Tallstar decides that they have no choice but to settle in this barren area. The cats find a tunnel underneath what appears to be a highway overpass and take shelter there, having no other choices.

Chapter 1 then opens immediately following the last scene of Into the Wild, where Fireheart and Graystripe are completing their silent vigil. The book recaps the events of the previous book through Fireheart's internal monologue a lot. After their vigil, Sandpaw and Dustpaw get a scene where they are clearly displeased that the younger apprentices were made warriors first. And then as Graystripe and Fireheart settle into sleep in the warriors den, Fireheart thinks about how he still has to warn Bluestar about Tigerclaw. And he then has a very vivid dream of Thunderpath and cats in front of a fire.

After a timeskip to the evening, Fireheart and Graystripe have a conversation about how Fireheart wants to warn Bluestar. Graystripe doesn't seem to believe what Ravenpaw had said, and pointed out that if Ravenpaw was right, Redtail must have killed Oakheart, which would be against the warrior code and thus an assault on the deceased deputy's honor. Fireheart decides that Graystripe can stay out of the situation, and he will handle it himself. There is then a naming ceremony in which Longtail, the cat who hated Fireheart for being a kittypet, gets a new apprentice, Swiftpaw.

The next night is the night of the Gathering, and Fireheart and Graystripe attend it as warriors. Along the way. Fireheart finally gets a chance to talk with Bluestar alone, and informs her that Ravenpaw is not dead but with Barley, which Bluestar takes well. However, when Fireheart tells her about Tigerclaw, she is less receptive, especially because it calls Redtail's honor into question. She is doubtful that Ravenpaw actually saw the murder. The conversation is interrupted by Tigerclaw, and they continue on to the Gathering. Fireheart is left off kilter and begins to doubt his own gut instincts and the words of Ravenpaw.

Chapter 2 features the first gathering after Brokenstar's exile. Bluestar introduces Yellowfang as the new ThunderClan medicine cat, and Nightpelt from ShadowClan reveals that StarClan chose him to be their new leader and will travel to the Moonstone the next night. Crookedstar then revokes ShadowClan's right to hunt in their territory, which causes tension with Nightpelt. Crookedstar and Nightpelt then agree that with WindClan gone, both clans should hunt in their territory for prey. Bluestar objects to this, saying WindClan must return because StarClan gave them four clans for a reason. Tigerclaw publicly agrees WindClan must be returned. Nightpelt concedes that he will allow WindClan to return, as does Crookedstar. But both Fireheart and Tigerclaw notice after the meeting that Crookedstar and Nightpelt seem to be scheming in private despite publicly agreeing.

And then in the last chapter, chapter 3, the ThunderClan cats discuss Nightpelt and ShadowClan back in their camp. Whitestorm suggests ShadowClan is stronger than they appeared and that Nightpelt may have high ambitions. And some other cats reveal RiverClan's river hunting grounds have been disturbed by Twolegs. Later Firepaw once again dreams of the Thunderpath and the sad cry of a young cat. He wakes up unsettled and ultimately decides it must be a commonplace nightmare.

The following morning, Bluestar calls Fireheart and Graystripe for a meeting, where she gives them the mission to find and bring WindClan cats back to the forest. They will be the only two cats on this mission. Graystripe almost lets slip to Tigerclaw that they'd taken Ravenpaw to WindClan territory not too long ago, but Fireheart covers it up. The two then visit Yellowfang in the medicine cat's den, and Fireheart has some melancholy thoughts about Spottedleaf. And then after receiving their traveling herbs, the two warriors head out in search of WindClan. And that is the end of our reading this week.

JULIAN: I thought like they do a good job of kind of recapping what you last saw on Warriors, without it being like too heavy handed. Which was nice given that for most people, there's gonna be a little bit of a wait.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: Yeah, I agree. It's pretty well done.

LIZ: Yeah, I just want to say it's a good use of Fireheart's brooding. He's got reason to.

PAZ: Yeah, I guess it also helps that, like there's literally no time in between the end of this book and-- I mean, the start of this book and the end of the last book, so I guess he's just like thinking about current events.

JULIAN: Yeah, well and I feel like we didn't get to see any of his like emotional reactions to basically anything that happened.

PAZ: Yeah, he seems to already have much more of like an internal life going on in this book than in the last book.

JULIAN: It's nice. Graystripe is also developing a little bit more of a personality, which is cute.

PAZ: Yes. He's developing the personality of like, not trusting his friend's words.

JULIAN: Well, yeah, that part sucks.

LIZ: Of a centrist?

PAZ: Yeah, he's developing the personality of a centrist. Oh, no.

JULIAN: Ugh.

PAZ: I do have a note here of "Graystripe confirmed fluffy" with a little smiley face. Cause I think there's a line about him being like long-furred or something.

JULIAN: Yeah, they're all getting fluffy for the winter.

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: No, the Graystripe line that I liked was he says something about that he hopes Tigerclaw will set Sandpaw and Dustpaw to chasing blue squirrels.

PAZ: Yeah, that was cute. There's also a very, very cute moment in chapter 3. I'll just read it. "Graystripe purred briefly in his sleep as Fireheart settled besides him and closed his eyes." It's very cute.

JULIAN: Aw.

LIZ: Aw. They're still just little guys.

JULIAN: Pals.

PAZ: They're little guys curled up next to each other.

JULIAN: Excellent.

PAZ: I mean, I'm happy WindClan is getting introduced because as I've stated as a child, I was a WindClan fan. So.

JULIAN: Hell yeah.

PAZ: It's their time, and good thing because the other clans suck right now.

JULIAN: Yeah.

PAZ: I mean, do we want to go from the top? Like, from the prologue onward?

JULIAN: Yeah, with the prologue?

PAZ: Yeah. The prologue was nice. It was like very atmospheric and stuff. Um, I don't understand why humans suck so much in this universe.

JULIAN: I also have a note about like, why do the Twolegs fucking suck.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: I mean, like, I know, like, some people are mean to cats like even just out on the street. But I don't think to this degree where like every single human being is.

JULIAN: Yeah, no, it sucks so much. Everyone's so mean to these little cats.

PAZ: Unbelievable.

JULIAN: Although I will say if I saw like 20 to 30 feral cats.

PAZ: Okay, that's fair.

JULIAN: If I was just chilling in the woods and I saw 20 to 30 feral cats, I might also like, yell at them

PAZ: What's that tweet about the feral hogs?

LIZ: That's so many though. I would leave. I don't think I could take 20 to 30 feral cats. They'd just get me.

PAZ: Legit question for rural Britons? British people? I don't know what British people are called. How do I kill the 20 to 30 feral cats that run into my yard within three to five minutes while my small kids play?

JULIAN: I feel like Twolegs sucking is gonna be kind of a theme of these books.

PAZ: It definitely is.

JULIAN: Given that we're already starting to see like, oh, the Twolegs are encroaching on the forest.

LIZ: Habitat loss.

PAZ: Yeah. I am curious to see where it goes with that theme of like, are you gonna lean into like this environmental theme? I don't know where they land on the execution, but we'll see.

LIZ: We don't know it yet. But in two or three series, the humans are just gonna have a little apocalypse and die off and it's gonna be post human apocalypse cat society just like in Guardians of Gahoole. Which is just gonna be like a weird mythology that's like used to scare the little kits and stuff.

JULIAN: Right? Like, do your hunting practice or a Twoleg will get you.

LIZ: Why is the Thunderpath called that? It's so peaceful and quiet. It's still smelly though.

PAZ: This is a bold claim to make about future books. I mean, I guess we'll see, you know.

JULIAN: Liz's predictions are my favorite part.

LIZ: Yeah, it's me. I'm the medicine cat.

PAZ: But, I mean, the prologue was pretty short. It was just like some like, atmospheric scene setting. But poor WindClan, man.

JULIAN: Yeah. I feel sorry for that cat who's going to have to give birth in a storm drain.

PAZ: Right?

LIZ: No.

PAZ: I would take in these 20 to 30 feral cats and feed them.

JULIAN: Trap neuter return, guys. Cats don't have to give birth in a storm drain if they don't get pregnant.

PAZ: Taps head three times. But yeah, and then moving on to chapter 1. It's pretty long. It's just a lot of Fireheart being like, I gotta tell Bluestar again.

JULIAN: It felt like a fuckin like comedy of errors. Every time he gets up to tell her, she is like, oh, Tigerclaw is at my side now, or I'm gonna hop up on the High Rock and make an announcement. It felt very Yakety Sax.

PAZ: Yeah, it did. But you know, I'm glad he finally like got that drilled into his memory enough that it happened.

JULIAN: I was so afraid he was going to tell her about Ravenpaw and then not say anything about Tigerclaw.

PAZ: Oh, I know.

JULIAN: I thought he might chicken out at the last minute. I'm very glad that he did not.

LIZ: I couldn't take that for another book.

PAZ: A whole nother book.

LIZ: I'm glad he's got a little brain now. I'm so proud of him. Character development.

PAZ: Yeah, he does seem to be developing a bit more of a brain. It's only been like three chapters. But you know.

LIZ: Speaking of Fireheart's brain, there is this part. near the middle? The end of chapter 1 where one of the other warriors gets like an apprentice. And there is a little bit of thought there about like xenophobia.

PAZ: Yeah.

LIZ: Yeah, Fireheart is like, wow, that guy didn't welcome me when I was a kitten. But I guess it's fine because that other kitten was born here.

PAZ: Yeah.

LIZ: And apparently, he makes an expression cause Graystripe is like, what's with you?

PAZ: Yeah, I like that scene a lot, actually, cause it was like, wow character.

LIZ: Uh-huh. And it hasn't been that long since he was like that young. So like, this is still kind of fresh to him.

PAZ: I mean, yeah, cats age so fast. I guess it was a couple months ago.

LIZ: Yeah. He's just a little-- he's always gonna be a little guy to me.

PAZ: They do still have little guy energy.

LIZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Yeah.

PAZ: They're just little guys who are also xenophobic.

JULIAN: Yeah, just because they're little guys doesn't mean they can't do crimes.

PAZ: No, that's very clear. Something I didn't know, I didn't realize that killing another cat was against warrior code? Question mark?

JULIAN: Yeah, I also didn't-- I feel like they kill each other all the time.

LIZ: They do.

PAZ: I was like, uhhh. It wasn't like just killing the deputy, right? Or was it like killing in general?

LIZ: Maybe it's deputy.

PAZ: Gotta go look at Graystripe's exposition.

LIZ: Maybe it's like a political faux pas.

PAZ: Yeah, maybe.

LIZ: Because isn't their murder policy like, hey, if we see you around these parts, it's on sight?

PAZ: Yeah, I thought so.

LIZ: Right?

PAZ: Okay, what Graystripe says is, "I can't believe that Redtail would have deliberately killed another clan deputy in battle. It goes against the warrior code. We fight to prove our strength and defend our territory, not to kill each other."

JULIAN: They kill each other-- again, they kill each other all the time.

PAZ: Right?

LIZ: They really do.

PAZ: I was like, I don't think it would like drag his name through the dirt if it turns out he killed somebody. Tigerclaw says he killed Oakheart, and everyone loves him. Like what is--

JULIAN: Yeah, wait.

PAZ: What is the issue?

JULIAN: Well, I guess it was like he killed Oakheart in revenge for killing Redtail.

PAZ: I guess.

JULIAN: Would that...

PAZ: I guess that makes it better. I don't know.

JULIAN: That makes it okay.

LIZ: Revenge is fine.

PAZ: It also sucks that everyone like just does not believe Ravenpaw.

LIZ: He's done nothing wrong. He was just a little like, guy. I'm sorry I keep saying that. But he's just like, a perfectly fine like, member of the clan who was really great at like hunting snakes and stuff. What did he do wrong?

PAZ: I mean, I guess no one was like, oh, like Ravenpaw's like lying just to be mean. They were all like, maybe he just like mis-saw or he got like, anxious or something. But it's still like, I think it's like a big-- like if you like run away and like fake your death and have that accusation, I think maybe you should like consider more strongly that it might have weight behind it.

JULIAN: Right? This isn't like a fun like flirty accusation for Ravenpaw.

LIZ: No.

JULIAN: It has ruined his life.

PAZ: Yeah, he had to leave his home forever.

JULIAN: I mean, it hasn't ruined his life because he's living in gay pastoral fantasy with Barley, but like, he doesn't know that.

PAZ: Yeah, he hasn't had his like rom com yet.

JULIAN: We're at still the beginning of the rom com.

PAZ: Yeah, Bluestar seems to have no brains, I think.

LIZ: Where'd they go?

PAZ: I'm very frustrated by it. Like why does she love Tigerclaw so much? Chill.

LIZ: They're not even friends. She doesn't like him.

JULIAN: His vibes are so rancid. They're so... and then for Fireheart to start doubting himself. And like Graystripe also to doubt him. Again, Graystripe, you just risked your life to rescue Ravenpaw.

PAZ: Right? I don't understand it.

LIZ: It makes Graystripe seem so like wishy-washy.

PAZ: Right? He's a centrist. He is. He's like, Oh, I don't want to say anything that would harm the clan, you know.

LIZ: Yeah, it makes his like, earlier risk trying to help Ravenpaw seem like, oh, like a way to avoid conflict rather than sacrifice. Ugh.

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Yeah. I think we do see some stuff later that kind of backs that up.

PAZ: That's good.

JULIAN: As far as his characterization, if I'm remembering the handling of some stuff correctly, but.

LIZ: (skeptically) Mm.

PAZ: Oh boy.

JULIAN: Not with Ravenpaw, but.

PAZ: Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, I feel bad for Fireheart, though. I do think it's like reasonable for him to start doubting himself when literally everyone else is like, I think his vibes are fine. Despite Fireheart being like, his vibes fucking suck. I can sense it.

JULIAN: I was glad that we got a moment of-- speaking of bad vibes-- Longtail like being nice to his deputy, even though Fireheart is like sad about it. Or to his apprentice, sorry. Because at least we're not continuing the cycle of terrible mentors.

PAZ: Please don't give Tigerclaw another apprentice.

LIZ: No.

JULIAN: Oh, no.

LIZ: Bluestar was considering it, right?

JULIAN: Maybe he's too busy for one now.

PAZ: I don't know.

JULIAN: I thought maybe-- I said maybe he's too busy for one now. But then I remembered that Bluestar had a apprentice, so. Although she seems to have had one fighting session with Firepaw.

LIZ: It was really good, though. Look at him now.

JULIAN: Yeah, that's true. He is very good.

PAZ: She said, my work here is done.

LIZ: And it was.

JULIAN: He's a feisty little boy.

PAZ: Yeah, apparently, cause she just made him a warrior.

LIZ: That's all he needed.

PAZ: Yeah, you're right. He's like, he's never going to be mentored by Bluestar again, because he's a warrior now. That literally-- that was only important for one scene. That is so funny.

LIZ: God.

JULIAN: He had one session of driver's ed. He got behind the wheel once and then they didn't even make him take a driver's test. They were just like, oh, here's your license. Go ahead.

PAZ: I mean, I guess the one thing I can say for Bluestar is she was like, really chill about Ravenpaw leaving. She was just like, yeah, sometimes cats just would be better off somewhere else, like not in a mean way. Just like, he didn't seem that happy here. Thanks, Bluestar.

LIZ: I did like the parallel she made with like, Fireheart, you're happier here, even though you weren't born here. And like, it was interesting cause he was also self conscious about that. Because like, that's the thing that does get him now and then, like, personally, even though she means it as like a nice thing.

PAZ: But she says, I do not want to hear it about Tigerclaw, so that's great.

JULIAN: Oy.

LIZ: One last thing about chapter 1, before we get to the later parts, I guess-- or I mean, we're kind of there already, but you know. I just want to draw attention to Whitestorm pretty early on, because he's described as having a deep meow.

PAZ: I mean, there's cats who do.

LIZ: Yeah, it's just funny to hear that. It's like, "'glad to see the dawn, you two.' Whitestorm's deep meow took Fireheart by surprise."

JULIAN: I'm just imagining him now, now that you mention that, that video of the cat who like meows like a person.

PAZ: Yeah, yes, I love that video.

LIZ: The one that's like (deep voice) meow.

PAZ: Yeah, that one.

JULIAN: That's Whitestorm. I too am surprised, Fireheart.

PAZ: Do you think the cats have like cat accents in their meows?

LIZ: Yeah, they're British.

JULIAN: Oh, I wonder if the different clans have different accents?

LIZ: Aw, that'd be cute.

JULIAN: Because I know-- well, do you think Fireheart like talks like a kittypet? Cause I know that like pet cats often make different noises than like--

PAZ: They meow more.

JULIAN: --feral ones, yeah.

LIZ: That's true.

PAZ: Everyone's always meowing in this book but cats only meow like around humans. But we'll let that slide. It's fine.

LIZ: It's almost like that could be solved with some very minor writing changes. I can't think of what, though.

PAZ: Oh, we should--

JULIAN: Would you say something about it?

PAZ: We should number count the times said is in this book. Can we get...

JULIAN: Yeah, I can do a-- let me do a quick search.

PAZ: Can we get a number on that? Okay, thank you.

JULIAN: On my ebook.

LIZ: Anyone want to make any bets for how many we'll have?

JULIAN: Yeah, give me your over/unders.

LIZ: 12. By the end of the book.

PAZ: Maybe they've they've got a little looser this book. So 20.

JULIAN: Yeah, we're at 27.

PAZ: Oh.

JULIAN: But none of them are dialogue tags.

LIZ: Oh my god.

PAZ: Welp. Okay, that means--

JULIAN: Entirely-- all of them are like, Graystripe said nothing, or like.

PAZ: Oh god.

JULIAN: This character said this. This character said that, or like characters reporting that a character said something else, like in their own dialogue.

LIZ: How do they know what said is?

PAZ: Oh, it's a big fat zero. The dialogue tag.

LIZ: Wouldn't they be like, you'll never guess what Bluestar meowed to me.

PAZ: Oh, God.

JULIAN: Do you want to know how many times meowed is used?

PAZ: Oh, yeah.

LIZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: 300.

LIZ: Oh my goodness.

PAZ: Oh my god.

LIZ: I can hear it. It's just like 20 to 30 cats meowing at you.

PAZ: Oh boy, well, um, no updates in writing style there, I guess.

JULIAN: I think that's probably in the style Bible.

PAZ: God. I wonder.

LIZ: If you want to be an Erin, and you come up with your draft, and you use said as a dialogue tag, they're gonna be like, [claps] No.

PAZ: Even once.

LIZ: We're going to Ctrl-F. We're going to replace. Listen, we love the rest of this. But we do things a certain way here. It's about consistency.

JULIAN: I wonder if the cats chirp at all.

LIZ: Oh, my God.

PAZ: See, that's how cats would talk to each other.

JULIAN: Because that's how cats communicate.

LIZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Nope. None.

PAZ: Unbelievable.

LIZ: Maybe later.

JULIAN: I guess does have like a sort of--

PAZ: Bouncy vibe to it.

JULIAN: It has like a very cheerful energy to it.

LIZ: They can be cheerful sometimes.

PAZ: Well they should use it sometimes, then, unless these cats are never cheerful.

LIZ: They are. I hope they're happier. Yeah.

PAZ: Well, I think we were talking about Whitestorm. My note on him is he seems like real cool and chill and I don't understand why he wasn't made deputy.

LIZ: He didn't want to. He just didn't want to.

PAZ: I mean, I guess that means he got to live for now, at least, so.

JULIAN: Whitestorm has like cool uncle vibes.

LIZ: Cool uncle who's like-- he's got a little bit more brain. He's not gonna get, you know, murdered immediately maybe.

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Yeah, he's the uncle who like at family gatherings you like, go out to the porch because people are fighting and like, he's just chilling out there with a drink. And you just like make eye contact and nod at each other.

PAZ: I love that.

LIZ: He's having a White Claw. He's like, okay, you're 13. Have a Lacroix.

PAZ: But then chapter two is just the Gathering, basically. Cat politics are back. They're still going at it.

JULIAN: I feel like ShadowClan has got to stop electing or like choosing to elect leaders who have rancid names. Make Runningnose leader.

PAZ: Night is not as bad as Broken, I guess, but it's still...

JULIAN: Yeah, no, it's not.

LIZ: It's just kind of goth, I guess.

PAZ: But he sucks too, and so does Crookedstar apparently.

JULIAN: Damn, who'da thunk?

LIZ: Why doesn't he have like a river-themed one? Why isn't he also like, Wetfoot or something? Wetstar?

PAZ: Wetass.

LIZ: We can't do that here.

JULIAN: Okay, okay.

PAZ: We can't use that. Sorry, I just-- you can't use that word.

LIZ: Mm-mm.

PAZ: I just see Castiel from Supernatural's face--

LIZ: No.

PAZ: --in my mind's eye.

JULIAN: Bringing it back. Bringing it back.

LIZ: We've gone too far. Oh, no. Fishstar.

JULIAN: Yeah, no, I'm... yeah, Fishstar. Hookstar would be fun.

PAZ: Sinister.

JULIAN: Like, you know, he's really good at scooping fish out of water. Um, give them a little... little tricky vibe. But not like as bad as Crookedstar.

LIZ: No, it's just roguish. It's not just evil.

JULIAN: Yeah.

PAZ: Prawnstar. Eyyy. Like, like monster.

JULIAN: Do they have crayfish in England?

PAZ: That's what I was wondering. I'm like, I don't know. That's why I said prawn.

JULIAN: Bringing back our little section of animal googling.

LIZ: Yes.

JULIAN: I can't believe I said crayfish. Crawfish.

PAZ: He could be... He could be Crawstar.

LIZ: Wait, is there a difference?

PAZ: I don't know.

LIZ: Also, yes. Do you know why?

PAZ: Why?

LIZ: Well, there's only one. There's not really any reason why. But they are called white-clawed crayfish.

PAZ: Oh.

LIZ: Yeah, see? It's all ring theory.

JULIAN: There you go.

PAZ: Whiteclaw is in RiverClan.

LIZ: "Due the introduction of non-native North American signal crayfish." Oops.

PAZ: Woopsie.

LIZ: Oh no.

JULIAN: You just gotta eat them. You gotta eat more of them.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: Get on it, RiverClan.

JULIAN: God, I want crawfish. All right, um.

LIZ: I'm so hungry, guys.

PAZ: Me too.

JULIAN: It does suck that-- the cat politics-- it sucks that RiverClan, having just come from being like, no, ShadowClan, you can't encroach on our territory, is like, but it's okay if we encroach on WindClan's and like, don't let them come back.

PAZ: What the fuck?

LIZ: It was instant.

JULIAN: What's wrong with y'all?

PAZ: Yeah, like real shitty.

JULIAN: Also, again, I agree with whichever cat was like, there's just some scrawny rabbits up there. Like, yeah, what do y'all want?

PAZ: Yeah, like WindClan already is like, toughing it out up there. Like, just let them come back. You're not gonna get much out of it.

LIZ: It sounds like WindClan is like maybe five people at this point.

PAZ: Oh, God. Well, maybe that was like a Crookedstar homophobia moment. I found it interesting that Tigerclaw was so adamant about WindClan coming back, though. Just I guess it wasn't clear in the text if he like-- it wasn't indicated that he was like saying that like untruthfully, in any way. So I wasn't sure if he was just supposed to-- yeah.

JULIAN: Yeah, he seems like very much in support of WindClan, which I didn't expect.

PAZ: Yeah, it's just odd. Like, I don't know, I guess because he really only cares about his ambitions so far.

JULIAN: Yeah, I guess it also helps-- like if he is publicly backing up Bluestar, that kind of helps him solidify his position with her.

PAZ: That could be it, but just like it wasn't written in the way to make that like clear that that was his goal. So I was like, is he being genuine? I don't know. It's interesting.

JULIAN: Yeah, no, that's me just like, coming up with possible evil motivations for that. He might just be pro WindClan.

PAZ: Wow, I have something in common with Tigerclaw finally.

LIZ: Yeah, the introduction of having like that in common with Bluestar and Fireheart is like, I think it's really interesting because like, oh, no, now what do I do? It's like that Lord Of the Rings meme, right, with the I can't believe I'm whatever. I don't know. I've seen Lord of the Rings once.

PAZ: Fighting side by side with a dwarf. Fighting side by side with an elf. Yeah.

LIZ: Except still evil at some point, right? Mm.

PAZ: Yeah. Yeah, it was interesting. I am curious to see his attitude towards WindClan down the road, I guess. Like where is that coming from?

JULIAN: And he like, when they go to prep for their their secret mission, he's very supportive, and trying give them advice. Which I kind of expected him to use this as an opportunity to try to bump off Fireheart but.

LIZ: He loves to do that.

JULIAN: I guess it would be too suspicious.

PAZ: Yeah, I mean, like, maybe he's hoping that but it didn't seem like that.

JULIAN: Yeah, I don't think he has it in for Fireheart at this point.

PAZ: Not at the moment.

LIZ: No.

PAZ: Cause he was like, make sure to avoid Nightpelt and stuff like that. I guess if he really wanted Fireheart killed, he would have sent them directly towards Nightpelt. I don't know.

JULIAN: Or just been like, oh, make sure that you like walk on the Thunderpath. Disguise your scent.

PAZ: Oh, God.

JULIAN: Maybe you can take a shortcut through snake hell.

PAZ: I do hope we get to see more comical Tigerclaw like trying to murder someone publicly.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: It was very funny last book.

JULIAN: It was very like Tom and Jerry, like cartoonishly large hammer.

LIZ: Tom v. Tom. I do like the conflict, I guess, like inner conflict that it brings up in Fireheart. Because like, he's using his brain, which is still so novel to me, that I'm like, whenever it happens, I'm just like, yes, do it. I know you can do it. I believe in you.

PAZ: He's learning. He's growing stronger as a warrior.

LIZ: I guess it also gives, like, some reasoning as to why Bluestar is giving any shit about like, keeping him where he is. Like, if, if he's, you know, like agreeing and making things or like taking her side and stuff. Like you guys said, it's like a good political thing.

PAZ: Yeah, I mean, Bluestar always seems to like-- her reason for supporting him always seems to come back to like, he's very helpful to the clan and like, supportive of the clan. And that's why everyone likes him, question mark? So getting in the good graces.

JULIAN: I did really like the last line of the third chapter.

PAZ: Oh, I think I remember.

JULIAN: "As he raced through the tunnel, Fireheart heard the ferns rustling in the morning breeze. They seem to be whispering, 'Good luck! Travel safely.'" Which I thought was just really nice.

LIZ: That's very sweet.

PAZ: Yeah, that was just a nice little like good vibes moment.

JULIAN: Yeah.

PAZ: Also sets up the journey to be like, kind of exciting.

LIZ: It's kind of like an old fashioned way of writing like, adventure nature stuff, which I liked.

JULIAN: Yeah, it feels very, like kids adventure novel. I mean, this is a kids adventure novel, but like that very particular genre of like E. Nesbitt.

LIZ: Yeah, if this was a book about like Fireheart being a little teeny cat with like, pants and a shirt and like a knapsack full of bread or something.

PAZ: Wow.

LIZ: And a sword. This is what it would also be like.

PAZ: Picturing it.

JULIAN: Yep. It's just our podcast art, but with an orange cat instead of a gray one. Ideal.

LIZ: While we're in this section, I want to draw attention to something Graystripe says, which is he calls Fireheart "slow slug," which adorable.

PAZ: Graystripe has some really good like, sayings.

JULIAN: Yeah, why wasn't that on our list of cat insults?

PAZ: I don't know.

LIZ: We should be keeping that. Just keep it updated for reference.

JULIAN: Open up a wiki page. Just kidding. The Warriors wiki team is very, uh, strict.

PAZ: They seem... I don't want to get on their bad side. They'll send like a hit squad out for us.

JULIAN: The power of a team that can organize a wiki of that size that well is very frightening to me.

PAZ: Yes. I do gotta say, though, Bluestar, why are you sending out like the two youngest warriors on this important mission?

LIZ: Bluestar's brains this book are just gone.

JULIAN: She's like, Oh, it's because the other warriors have to hunt. And it's like, you don't want to send your like seasoned warriors who might have some political savvy out to handle the bringing back the clan that was driven from their home job?

PAZ: Yeah, they're essentially going as like diplomats, like diplomats and rescue team. Like you'd think you would send someone who's a good like representation of your clan out.

JULIAN: Like send Whitestorm.

PAZ: Right?

LIZ: Yeah, he's great.

JULIAN: Not these two apprentices who-- Fireheart has never met WindClan. And Graystripe like, is--

LIZ: A centrist.

JULIAN: --has only [laughs] yeah. He's a centrist. And also, he's only been known to WindClan as like a child. So I don't think that this like traumatized clan is going to want to go with them.

PAZ: Right? It's so weird.

LIZ: I think like the reason the book gives is like, oh, you guys are the only ones who know what WindClan smells like right now. And that's also easily something-- you don't have to send both of them. Just send one of them and like, an adult.

PAZ: Yeah. Well, I'm not sure about that one, Bluestar. But okay.

JULIAN: Well, Fireheart will have to use his protagonist aura.

PAZ: Yeah. Maybe she was counting on that.

LIZ: Bluestar has such a serious case of like, dumb for the plot. It's so...

PAZ: Right?

LIZ: The crime against the girlbossiest of girlbosses. I don't know.

PAZ: How could they do this? Yeah, I mean, but that's kind of the end of that reading section. Just they're going out on their journey. I do have to say, I wish Fireheart would realize he was having like prophetic dreams. He was like, well, the other ones were prophetic, but this one isn't, probably. It's fine.

JULIAN: I'm sure this one is fine and normal.

LIZ: You know, it's okay that he's still so dumb. Because if he got smart, like, all at once, it would just be too much of a character shift. This feels good and familiar.

JULIAN: Yeah. Yeah. I also think like, if I had like, a couple of prophetic dreams, and then had a dream that like, seemed just sort of like bad vibes, I would be like, Oh, I don't want this dream to be prophetic. So I'm gonna decide that it's not

PAZ: Yeah, that was kind of what he did. And he was also like, I don't want Tigerclaw to like, get on my case about this. So, um, it was probably fine. I'll just go back to sleep.

LIZ: It's procrastination if you're like a prophet.

PAZ: StarClan is like sending these down, like, hello? Hello? Open your texts.

LIZ: These are StarClan emails.

JULIAN: Fireheart's 5000 unopened emails.

LIZ: Dear Fireheart, hope you're well. Was just wanting to check up on the last email that I sent you. Have you had a chance to look at it? Please let me know as soon as you can. Regards, StarClan.

JULIAN: Graystripe, meanwhile, over here at inbox zero.

LIZ: StarClan voice, per my last email.

JULIAN: Purr my last email? Sorry.

LIZ: Ooh. Well done. [claps]

PAZ: The dreams are very like sad though.

JULIAN: Yeah. Why can't he have a good prophetic dream?

PAZ: Prophetic dream that he'll catch a big rabbit tomorrow. I don't know. I don't know what would be a good cat dream.

JULIAN: I guess his dreams when he was a kittypet, those prophetic dreams were good dreams. He got to catch a mouse.

LIZ: Prophetic dream about being able to eat cheese for the first time because he gets invited to Ravenpaw and Barley's wedding on the farm, and the farmers have left some cheese out as a wedding gift.

PAZ: Wow.

JULIAN: Wow. He can't have too much, though. It'll upset his little tummy.

PAZ: Well, just a little nibble.

LIZ: Just a little, just a little.

PAZ: As a treat. Well, I'm excited to for next reading.

JULIAN: Yeah, I think we're gonna have some good journey content.

PAZ: Yeah, I love when the cats go places, you know?

JULIAN: It's good.

PAZ: Cats on the move. I mean, does that end our little reading section?

JULIAN: Yeah, I think we covered it.

LIZ: Yeah. Though I am looking at my bookmark, which talks about Dappletail again. And it calls it, "the once-beautiful queen Dappletail spoke up in a voice cracked with age."

PAZ: Just Grizabella.

JULIAN: This is just...

PAZ: She's gonna start belting out Memory any second now.

JULIAN: I started to, like, trying to remember the tune so I could sing it, or like part of it, but all I could remember was Agony from Into the Woods. (singing to the tune of "Agony") Memory. Uh, Anyway.

PAZ: Anyway, let's move on to our next thing. I was thinking we could click around MIT Scratch Warriors community.

JULIAN: Hell yes.

PAZ: Which we were introduced to last episode. There is truly so much here. I don't understand it.

[meow]

LIZ: What is...

JULIAN: Oh, this is delightful.

LIZ: What is MIT Scratch really?

PAZ: I don't know. Let me go look at their about.

JULIAN: So yeah, so Blue said it was like a-- it's like a site for kids to kind of learn how to code. So it's, you know, like, this is how you put together an animation, or like a program, or like a little game. But you don't have to actually write the code. You just learn how to kind of do if/then types of things and dependencies and that sort of thing.

LIZ: That's sweet.

PAZ: But it's extremely funny that a Warriors community has made itself at home here.

LIZ: I think that just... it feels natural.

JULIAN: Yeah. Oh, there's a bunch of remixes of this Make a Clan link. Or no, there's just one.

PAZ: Where is... Oh God. Oh, God. I can't see anything. Oh, mm? Aah.

JULIAN: Oh. Hello? I'm gonna make this full screen.

PAZ: Oh, that might help things. I didn't-- no. That didn't really help things. We're looking at a game--

JULIAN: This cat is talking to me, but I can't--

PAZ: We're looking at a game called Make a Clan. There is a cat talking to us but it is covered by a bajillion windows.

JULIAN: How do I hide these?

PAZ: I don't know. I don't think we can.

LIZ: Don't be a coward. Click in all of that.

PAZ: Oh, I think the cat's saying, What's your clans name? Well, CrabClan. If I type it in, will it accept it? Okay, yes, it accepted it. What's your leaders name? It was--

LIZ: Alix.

PAZ: Larkstar and-- was it, no. What'd you end up, Julian?

JULIAN: Oh, I don't remember. I think I stuck with Pinestar, maybe? Pine, whatever the fuck. Pinestripe.

PAZ: Pinestar. There we go. Oh, I think I filled it out wrong. Oh no. Aw.

LIZ: Well then, we can't make a clan.

PAZ: I don't know about this one, guys.

LIZ: We got booted.

JULIAN: Oh, yeah, I've put it in as the clan name. Whoops.

PAZ: Well.

JULIAN: Yeah, we might have to pick another one. Oh, I'm gonna-- let's see.

PAZ: Do we want to check out this one that I found? A Day in the Life of a Clan Leader.

JULIAN: Yeah, let's do this.

PAZ: I'm loving the music.

JULIAN: Oh, there are instructions. The game is unfinished.

PAZ: Oh god, the music just changed.

LIZ: Oh god, it's so loud.

JULIAN: "To pick your cat, just click on it. To move, use the right or left arrow keys. To travel around, click the entrance of the place you want to go. To hunt the mouse, just click on it." This is very interactive.

PAZ: So we got FireClan, CloudClan, and LeafClan to choose from. Who are we gonna choose?

JULIAN: Oh god, it's so loud.

LIZ: It's very loud. Hey, if you click right and left, you can make the cat dance.

PAZ: We gotta choose our cat. Which clan are we gonna choose?

JULIAN: I vote LeafClan.

LIZ: Me too.

PAZ: Yeah, I'm feeling that. That's Willowstar.

JULIAN: Willowstar has a little diamond in the center of their forehead, which I think is great.

PAZ: Willowstar is like gray and white.

JULIAN: Our other options are Dapplestar, who has a little star, and then Ashstar, who has emo bangs.

PAZ: So it kind of puts your cat in this scene. And you kind of just click places. Oh. So I just clicked into the medicat. Lovely array of like herbs and stuff here. Let's see. Let's see what's up. "The Gathering is tonight. Get ready." Okay. Oh my god. If you press space, they meow.

JULIAN: Aw.

PAZ: I don't know if I can leave this conversat-- okay, yeah, they just go back outside.

JULIAN: Uh-oh. I moved too far to the left.

PAZ: Camp exit. Okay, we're out of the camp. Willowstar? I already can't remember. "I must find prey for my clan. Click the rock to start." Okay, I'm clicking the rock.

LIZ: The medic area looks like it just has cookies.

PAZ: Might have hit a dead end here.

JULIAN: Those are the strongest potions. Yeah, I can't click the rock.

PAZ: Well, that's a day in the life of a leader.

LIZ: Wow. I like the meow function.

PAZ: Yeah, the meow function is great. I think all games should implement that. I have found Warrior Cats Text Adventure.

JULIAN: Oh, that might be a little bit easier.

PAZ: Yeah.

LIZ: Let's do that one.

PAZ: Let's try this one out.

LIZ: Hey, should we screenshare this?

PAZ: Oh yeah, I guess I'll just do that.

LIZ: First screen shared podcast.

PAZ: Okay, we seem to be starting in media res here.

JULIAN: Uh-oh. Try hitting stop and then the green flag again. The stop button up at the top. Oh, there you go. We've started at the beginning.

PAZ: Choose your clan. RiverClan. Oh, they got stats. Oh.

LIZ: Ooh.

JULIAN: Oh shit.

PAZ: RiverClan stats. No, this is WindClan, sorry.

JULIAN: No, that's WindClan.

PAZ: WindClan stats. Speed, 10. Strength, 2. Smarts, 5. Stealth, 5. Swim, 2.

LIZ: Actually, it's stregth.

PAZ: Oh sorry. Stregth.

JULIAN: Stregth.

PAZ: Yes. Oh, that's a special stat that only WindClan has, cause RiverClan just has strength. No, wait.

JULIAN: No, they also have stregth.

PAZ: Wow, you're right. They all have stregth. Stregth. Well, okay. Hey, I have issues with these stats. RiverClan has speed 2, stregth 10, smarts 10, stealth five, swim 10. I think RiverClan's a little OP here.

JULIAN: RiverClan seems kind of OP.

LIZ: Looks like someone has favorites. Hmm.

JULIAN: Can we see what ThunderClan's smart status is? Yeah, that seems about right.

PAZ: Yeah, so ThunderClan's stats are speed 5, stregth 8, smart 5, stealth 5, swim 2.

LIZ: I think smart should be less.

JULIAN: Yeah, I would give them a 2.

PAZ: I would give WindClan more smarts honestly.

LIZ: Yeah, they're like surviving. They've got this.

PAZ: So ShadowClan's stats are speed 5, stregth 8, speed 5, stealth 10, swim 2.

LIZ: Okay, one, I think any clan that isn't RiverClan should have swim 0.

PAZ: That's true. They all have swim 2 except RiverClan. Well, I don't want to choose RiverClan on the basis that they're OP.

JULIAN: I think we should go WindClan.

PAZ: I agree. We're gonna celebrate them this book.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: "Clan leader: Well, well, well, it seems we have received a new warrior. I name you." I think it has given me one. I don't know if I can change it.

JULIAN: Our autogenerated name is Timberburr.

PAZ: I'll take it, you know? Gotta respect what the leader says. "Press space to begin your adventure." Does somebody want to...

JULIAN: Sure.

PAZ: --be this cat.

JULIAN: "Greetings, new warrior. Would you like to join me on a hunting patrol?" This is Stormclaw.

PAZ: That's so...

LIZ: What happens if you say no?

PAZ: Yes or no. Do we want to say no?

LIZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: I want to say no. "That's fine. I'll go with some other cat."

PAZ: "He walks away. A second warrior pads over." Wanna do that, Liz?

LIZ: Oh, I can do it. Clawstrike says, "if you aren't going on patrol, you might as well make yourself useful. The elders need new bedding. The apprentices brough the new moss in, but you can clear away the old moss."

PAZ: "In the elders den, an elder peers at you."

JULIAN: (creakily) "Thank you for doing this."

PAZ: "A second spots you and begins mewing rapidly."

LIZ: Okay. (high-pitched and wavery) "Finally. Young cats these days. That reminds me of when I was young. There was this fox, see, attacking the clans, and I knew that it needed to learn a blah blah blah blah blah."

[laughing]

PAZ: "You finish long before the story is done and exit the den."

JULIAN: This is so rude.

LIZ: I wanna hear about the fox.

PAZ: "The next day... as you stand in camp, you hear something. Before you can move, an enemy clan invades your camp. You find yourself face to face with a snarling enemy cat. You must perform a move against your enemy."

JULIAN: Oh shit.

PAZ: So we can either leap and hold, front paw blow, upright lock, or a tail yank.

LIZ: Tail yank.

JULIAN: I vote tail yank.

PAZ: Okay. Oh god. "You grab your enemy's tail in your teeth and yank, but her twists and slices your chest."

LIZ: No.

JULIAN: Our health has dropped from 20 to 16.

PAZ: Oh God.

LIZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: Oh shit.

LIZ: We died?

PAZ: We Dark Souls died. "Just then, the order sounds for your clan to retreat. Clan leader: we are defeated." Huge letters. "You lose."

LIZ: We died.

JULIAN: Well, that was quick.

PAZ: Um, well, Warriors games are unforgiving, apparently.

LIZ: Should we replay with better stats?

PAZ: Okay. Do we wanna stay true to our allegiances or go be OP?

LIZ: Let's be OP.

PAZ: Okay, fine. We'll cave to this author's favoritism and be RiverClan. Oh my god.

LIZ: What?

JULIAN: Oh no, we're Ashfur.

LIZ: Wait a minute. Hold on.

PAZ: Ashfur really is like the John of Warriors names.

LIZ: Ashfur, parentheses, no relation.

PAZ: Well, we're Ashfur. Okay. Here we go.

JULIAN: Oh, it's the same warrior.

LIZ: Stormclaw, no relation.

JULIAN: Stormclaw would like us to join him on a sun hunting patrol. Again.

PAZ: Should we say yes this time maybe?

JULIAN: Yeah, let's see what it's like.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: "You walk out of camp. In the hunting grounds of your clan."

JULIAN: (bombastically) "I smell mouse. How about you catch it for your first catch as a warrior?"

LIZ: "Moss says, squeak."

PAZ: No, it's "squeaks softly."

LIZ: Oh, excuse me. (whispering) Squeaks softly.

PAZ: What's our stealth? Not very good. Our speed's not very good. Maybe we should pounce. We're very strong.

LIZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: We can pounce, stalk, or chase, and I think pounce is probably...

PAZ: "When you pounce, the mouse does not notice until too late. With a powerful leap, you catch it and swiftly nip its neck."

JULIAN: (cheerfully) "Wow. Nice catch. That was a great pounce."

PAZ: "His voice is muffled by the feathers of a thrush he caught."

JULIAN: [garbled speech]

PAZ: "You walk back to camp."

LIZ: Which is, by the way, in capital letters.

PAZ: "In your clan's camp. The clan leader says."

LIZ: "Impressive. Good job, both of you."

PAZ: "She nods at you and Stormclaw before vanishing into her den."

JULIAN: "It was fun hunting with you. Now I'll go ask if I'm wanted on moonhigh patrol. If not, I going straight to sleep."

PAZ: "He walks away."

LIZ: This guy is an NPC.

PAZ: He talks like an Oblivion NPC.

LIZ: "I'm going straight to sleep."

JULIAN: What is the difference between this and Oblivion, really?

PAZ: Yeah. I think Bethesda might have ripped some of this off.

LIZ: Mm, maybe you're onto something.

PAZ: "The next day." We're in battle again. "As you stand in the camp, you hear something. Before you can move, an enemy clan invades your camp. You must perform a move against your enemy."

LIZ: What if this was timed?

PAZ: Oh god. Okay, so we're very strong.

JULIAN: I think either leap and hold or front paw blow might be our best bets with strength.

PAZ: Yeah.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: Front paw blow seems good.

LIZ: Yeah, one shot, one kill.

JULIAN: Yeah, let's just fucking punch em.

PAZ: "You slam your paw down on the enemy warrior's head. He hisses but is dazed for a heartbeat. You rake your claws down his chest and he backs away, growling. Just then the order sounds for the other clan to retreat. Your enemy bares his teeth at you and flees alongside his clanmates."

LIZ: Clan leader says, "we have won this battle. All the cats are to go and have their wounds, if they have any, treated by our medicine cat."

PAZ: "The medicine cat pads over and checks your pelt for injuries.

JULIAN: "I can't see or scent any injuries. But I'm out of goldenrod. Could you go gather me some?"

PAZ: We can say yes or no. I feel like saying no last time really fucked us up, maybe. I'll say yes.

LIZ: Yeah. "Thank you."

PAZ: "Outside camp, you search for the herbs and come across three places to check. You know that goldenrod does not grow in marshes." So we can either check ferns, under brambles, or in marsh.

JULIAN: I kinda wanna check in the marsh.

PAZ: Okay.

LIZ: That 10 smart is not accurate.

PAZ: "You pad into the marsh. The mud is thick and wet and you sink a tail length deep."

LIZ: Holy shit.

PAZ: "The mud covers your legs and belly and you struggle to get out. No sign of goldenrod, and now you're stuck." So we can either call for help or pull out. We're very strong.

JULIAN: We are very strong.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: This'll be fine. We're gonna pull out.

LIZ: We're fine.

PAZ: "You try and pull yourself out. The mud clings to your fur, but you manage to get out. You walk back to camp."

LIZ: No consequences for our bad decision?

PAZ: No, I guess not.

JULIAN: I feel like we should have lost some health for like being cold and wet.

LIZ: Probably stinky, too. Oh, it's me. "Clan leader says, let all cats old enough to swim gather for a clan meeting." Oh boy. That was me. The oh boy is not canon. "One of our kits is ready to become an apprentice. Step forward, young one."

PAZ: "A kit scurries forward."

LIZ: (laughing) "From this moment on, you shall be known as Snailpaw."

PAZ: Just to be clear, Snailpaw is also an auto generated name. "The leader fixes her gaze on you."

LIZ: "You shall mentor this cat."

PAZ: "Your apprentice touches noses with you, looking excited."

JULIAN: (chirpily) "I'm gonna be the best warrior in the clan with you as a mentor."

LIZ: I got confused. They were both green text.

PAZ: "What will you do with your apprentice? Hunt. Battle train. Gather moss." This is such a tiny baby. I don't wanna battle train.

JULIAN: Right.

PAZ: They're too small.

LIZ: But I want to seem cool in front of my student. I don't think moss is gonna do it. Let's hunt.

PAZ: Maybe we should hunt, then.

JULIAN: We already hunted though.

PAZ: Well, these cats hunt every day.

LIZ: What if the baby gets hungry? Do we want to gather moss?

PAZ: Let's go hunt.

LIZ: Alright.

PAZ: "You take your apprentice to your clan's hunting grounds."

JULIAN: (high-pitched) "I smell bird."

PAZ: "You teach them the proper bird hunting technique and they begin to stalk a small finch." We can either help your apprentice or let them do it. I'm happy to help our young apprentice, Snailpaw.

LIZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: I feel like as the apprentice, I can't chime in.

LIZ: Let's help.

PAZ: This is their first day. Let's help.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: "The apprentice luges at the bird. And it flutters towards you. You catch and kill it."

JULIAN: (high-pitched) "That was fun. We make a great team."

PAZ: Aw.

LIZ: Aw.

PAZ: "You go back to camp, for the sun is setting."

LIZ: Oh, the prey count also is 2. We did it.

JULIAN: Oh yay.

LIZ: "Clan leader says, oh good, you're back. You had better get some sleep. Now."

JULIAN: (high-pitched) "Thank you for the training."

PAZ: "Your apprentice pads into the apprentices' den and you go to the warriors' den to get some sleep. The next day, the deputy pads over to you."

LIZ: Who wants to do the cowboy voice for this? It can't me.

JULIAN: (laughing) I can do it. [clears throat] (in a very bad Southern accent) "I want you to go on a border patrol by the river with several other warriors." I don't know what happened there.

PAZ: It was perfect.

"At the river."

LIZ: Oh.

JULIAN: Who the fuck is Darkflight?

LIZ: I don't know. "Darkflight says, we should spread out."

PAZ: "Each warrior pads to a different area. You hear a small wail and sight two kits from a different clan floundering weakly in the river." We either help them or leave them.

LIZ: That's a real Bioshock choice there.

JULIAN: Well, help them of course.

PAZ: Yeah, our swim is 10. We're fucking going in there. "You spring into the river to save the kits. Being RiverClan, you swim quickly and nimbly, and are able to reach the kits in time. You haul them out of the river and manage to save them. A patrol from the kits' clan arrives, thanks you, and takes the kits back. Your patrol gapes at you, but you pad back to the camp in silence."

JULIAN: What the fuck is wrong with our patrol?

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: Yeah, I can't-- is that like, judgment? You want them to just die? Jesus.

LIZ: Maybe it's um, gaping at us because we swim so good because we have 10 swim.

PAZ: Yeah, it better be in like awe. Oh my god. We won.

LIZ: Holy shit.

PAZ: We won.

JULIAN: We did it.

LIZ: Oh my god.

PAZ: "In camp."

LIZ: "Darkflight says, I'll report back to our leader."

PAZ: "She pads away. The clan leader soon approaches you."

LIZ: Clan leader, who sounds exactly the same, says, "By saving those kits, you have averted war between our clans. May StarClan honor you."

PAZ: "You win" and then there's a little fun animatic of the title, like the Warriors title, pixelating in and out. Wow.

LIZ: I can't believe we did it. Woo.

JULIAN: Incredible, we did it.

PAZ: We did it, guys.

JULIAN: We won at-- we were the best at being a cat.

LIZ: Game of the year. That's all I ever wanted.

PAZ: Because we were incredibly OP.

JULIAN: I think that was it. It's just that we were RiverClan.

LIZ: Yeah, if we hadn't had that 10 swim.

PAZ: Yeah, I feel like this game seems extremely biased towards RiverClan. I don't agree with that. I don't know. That's pretty good.

JULIAN: Yeah, I think that was good.

PAZ: I'm happy to end there on our victory.

LIZ: Yeah. We've got lots of time for more gaming next time.

JULIAN: Right.

PAZ: Exactly.

JULIAN: There's a whole universe here on MIT Scratch.

PAZ: There's so many games. How many-- will it show me a page count? No, it will not show me a page count. Or how many there are. But I assure you, there are a lot.

LIZ: Who needs--

JULIAN: Well, we'll have to link that one in the...

PAZ: Yes.

JULIAN: On the Twitter so that the audience can see if they have any more success as ThunderClan or ShadowClan.

PAZ: Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, I guess that's gonna do it for us today. Gonna keep going at it with Fire and Ice next week. As always, you can find the show @staircast on Twitter and send in any questions or anecdotes you want to share to stairwaytostarclan@gmail.com. And next week, we'll be reading chapters four through seven. So if you're reading along, that's where we'll be at. And until then, may StarClan light your path. Bye.

JULIAN: Bye.

LIZ: Bye.

[outro music]