#writer bucklemming

[shallowseeker]

Cas is always leaving for urgent reasons, for big important quests or missions.

But here, oh here... it couldn't be more different.

And Dean tries SO hard to ask him to stay.

///

When Cas comes into his room, Dean starts opening up immediately. And clearly, he wants to keep talking to Cas here, to sit down and rest, to hang out together!

Dean must be so exhausted, post-demon-withdrawal. I mean. He's been pretty much off his head for months, really ever since Mr. Cuthbert and Cain.

But now Dean... humanity again. Anne-Marie "humanity"'s words put into motion his journey back. He's back on the side of humanity, even on his own side of the bed.

///

One of the things that sticks out is the subconscious body language in the next bit. Dean subconsciously drifts from his normal side of the bed...

...to the other side, the pizza side, the side with the fan, the side with the tall "dancing" lamp.

On his way, he nervously fiddles, clearing the books off the "Cas" side like he doesn't quite know what to do with his hands during this conversation.

///

Dean airs his fears and anxieties, and he and Cas fall into easy, comfortable banter. They make each other "whuff" with laughter... even smile.

When Cas smiles, it triggers some responses.

Dean starts swallowing and shifting his eyes. Then he attempts to say something meaningful: "I'm glad you're here."

*trying* *trying*

///

And in response to this? Cas starts to leave. Ouch! He even drifts backwards within-frame.

<- <- <- <-

Then he turns around. :(

BUT THEN!

CAS turns back around, almost like he doesn't want to leave either. But he puts back on his game face, his "duty" face. He's perpetually in mission mode, like he told Hannah before.

Meanwhile, Dean is at first hopeful when Cas turns back around, but then...

Then to Dean, he shows care, telling him he should get some rest.

CAS: "Hey, maybe you should, uh... take some time. Rest up before you go back to work."

While Cas tells Dean to take some time off, it's clear Cas himself has no plans of resting. Cas seems to "never sleep" and is seemingly perpetually traveling the road of work.

If Dean is a roadrunner-desperado, never stopping to settle down, Cas is that to the power of 10,000. But not JUST on the road but in the air, too. An unreachable flight pattern.

...

And as Dean listens, his heart squeezes a little, maybe. The timing might be "right."

But not that kind of timing.

Because, if "Heaven and Hell are reasonably back in order," as Cas says, and if it's "quiet out there...."

Then, if Cas won't stay NOW? He won't stay ever.

And...

Dean is left looking a little dazed, a little lost. :(

("Oh.")

(nodding a little to himself)

[pollsnatural]

*The second question cannot be turned into a poll. So, if you want, please write your answers in the tags.

[cosmoseinfeld]

repo man is to ben edlund what the finale is to andrew dabb.

[anassemblageofpassions]

I was also thinking. Remember the time Sam literally got raped onscreen? Lmao? What were the writers fucking ON? Esp bc it’s NEVER brought up again.

[mybrainproblems]

it really strikes me as odd how adversarial fans are about the spn writers and talk about hating them or thinking they're bad at writing. because 1) they're the ones creating/continuing this piece of media that you clearly do love or at least care about and 2) if they were genuinely bad at writing, you wouldn't be here. the show would've fallen off the viewership and ratings cliff and would have been cancelled years ago and not run for fifteen seasons.

and these folks will have the one or two writers that they stan but will claim they're the only ones who knew what they were doing and honestly? 4 episodes in a 20-23 episode season does not carry a season/show. no single writer is carrying an entire season on their episodes alone and it's not like they weren't conferring with each other at all during the writing process.

idk. it just feels really really weird to see folks be so negative about the ppl who are creating the thing that they supposedly love, and it seems like a really miserable way to engage with a piece of media. not to mention that tbh it's pretty disrespectful to the writers to assume that they have no knowledge of their own craft. the majority of writers on spn have been at worst competent (i am setting aside the content of their writing bc that's a separate issue. sera gamble die by my sword.)

and tbh so much of what ppl talk about in terms of writerly incompetence just comes across as personal gripes about the plot not going in the direction they wanted or an inability to grasp that spn is a goddamn genre show and not a family drama. genres have their own language and trope toolboxes and you need to meet it where it is, not criticize it for being something that it isn't and never was intended to be.

[soullessjack]

all I ask of the spn prequel movie season sixteen or other is to have more jack. truly. so eric kripke steve yockey andrew dabb and bobo berens if you’re out there .

[lets-steal-an-archive]

#supernatural knew all the WRITERS#you'd know if an episode was going to be good based on who was writing it#that sense of dread when we found out Bucklemming got crucial plot episodes in s8 (x)

BUCKLEMING BINGO (est. Nov. 30, 2013)

if people know a showrunner by name then u just know they were committing war crimes throughout their shows

[destielhands]

Just checked my list and Ben Edlund only wrote a single episode that I didn’t think was great before season 7, that man literally worked so hard to give us banger after banger

[shallowseeker]

Didn't you have a meta where Dean is subconsciously clearing a space for Cas while talking to him? I think it was just after Dean got his humanity back.

I think you mean this one!

Yes, it's 10x03 Soul Survivor. It's just after Dean regains his sense of self/free will.

He starts the scene reading on his bed, and then he compliments and thanks Cas for stepping in. As Dean moves around the bed, he shifts into emotional vulnerability, and Cas says exactly the right thing to make Dean feel better; they even share a chuckle.

Cas's smile triggers seems to trigger Dean's clumsy attempt to share his feelings about Cas being in the bunker: ("I'm glad you're here.")

(And well... that's my interpretation anyway. IMHO Nervous Dean certainly fiddles-fiddles-fiddles).

[squeakyhalfling]

sorry to dredge this up from 2014 but I just got so pissed off with buckner/ross-lemming's season 7 return to spn on a rewatch and I need to keep this for reference.

how do you know how which writer writes Cas? like "this writer writes cas like ____". I feel this is necessary information I must know for the future. Deets! (to be honest, Edlund was my favorite writer and Cas writer hbu)

{opinions are stated here. you’ve been properly warned.}

edlund: ahh man i love edlund’s cas. he seems to understand like…the poetic balance of his character? like he understands both the peaceful and the rebellious side of cas and usually focuses on his struggles with agency and how he’s fundamentally different from other angels. he usually gets the perfect balance of writing cas with gravitas (as a character with inherent importance) and enough slightly-off humor to make him endearing. uwu.

berens: kind of similar to edlund. understands cas on a fundamental level and writes him with his own motivations; understands cas’ love and connection to humanity and also his obligation and love for his own family. his cas eps i thought were the strongest of this season (9.06 and 9.14) where we were actually given some interiority into cas’ struggles as a human and his struggles with morality in trying to organize the angels.

thompson: i’ve talked with some people about this and like, i really really like robbie thompson as a person and a writer and i think he really likes cas but i don’t think he really understands cas. usually he writes him as a little too quirky for my taste? but i think he fundamentally understands cas’ love and affection for the winchesters but i usually find the humor to be a little light and off. (8.17 cas calling his head a “noodle,” or comparing humanity to a peanut butter sandwich in 9.11. i think some people might like that but i find it a little ooc)

dabb: dabb is like kind of shitty in some regards (women. i mean women.) but he’s actually a relatively strong writer for cas? like he almost always focuses on cas’ loyalty and protectiveness of dean in his episodes. dabb is one of the most deancas-centric cas writers i think? he also understands that cas is his own person with his own history and motivations (like when he got pissed at gadreel in 9.10, etc) which is always good.

buckner/ross-lemming: the worst. the fucking worst. don’t understand cas at all, make him into a dudebro with dudebro humor when they can, or they forego correct characterization for the sake of moving forward plot (asking dean to torture just to have an episode conflict will like forever be on my shitlist for multiple reasons). literal no conception of who cas actually is. retconning x10. -20/10. the fucking worst.

carver: generally pretty good cas writer? usually writes him with his own motivations and treats him like an actual character and not a plot device. 5.03 is one of my favorite eps and i think he really nails cas in that one. ;u;

glass: has written one episode with cas and i think he generally doesn’t give a shit about him

klein: has also written one episode with cas and focused on cas watching porn for humor so i don’t trust her (i lied she’s written 2 with cas and in both focused on cas/porn for humor. double nope.)

[pollsnatural]

Imagine that a Supernatural sequel and its showrunner have been announced. Spin the wheel, find out which writer is the showrunner, and answer the question:

If you want to know/remember which episodes your writer wrote, you can follow the links below.

Eric Kripke

Sera Gamble

Jeremy Carver

Andrew Dabb

Ben Edlund

Cathryn Humphris

John Shiban

Raelle Tucker

Robert Berens

Buckleming - Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming

Adam Glass

Robbie Thompson

Charmelo&Snyder - Eric Charmelo and Nicole Snyder

Steve Yockey

Davy Perez

Meredith Glynn

Jenny Klein

Ryan Murphy - he's the creator/writer of Glee, 9-1-1, American Horror Story, etc. He's never written anything for spn, he's just here for the joke (and for me to see if there are people who would watch Supernatural, written by the creator of Glee).

[mybrainproblems]

What if s10 was Like That bc Carver wrote the opener/closer, gave the rest of the writers the rough idea of point A to point Z for the plot and then just peace'd out expecting that the writers would actually make Dean worse, not realizing that Dean is everyone's blorbo and they couldn't bring themselves to do it.

But like actually! It's interesting to me that Carver is the only showrunner to have written so little for the show. Kripke didn't write every opener/closer, but he always wrote eps within the meat of the season. This isn't inherently a criticism; it's just that Carver is a bit of an outlier as a showrunner on spn for not writing eps besides the opener/closer, and I wonder if that was part of why the finale of s10 feels so disjointed from the rest of the season in how Dean acts.

[castiellesbian]

some jumbled thoughts about the writers. I actually like Dabb's writing for young Sam at least, it's part of what makes Dark Side of the Moon great, and it makes The Girl Next Door and After School Special salvageable. Sera Gamble is a great writer, one of the best in the show, but unfortunately she wasn't a very good showrunner (though i do think some of it was more because of external forces and/or misogyny...). same with carver: very good standalone episodes, not terribly great at overarching plots. it's a common misconception that kripke had everything planned out and that's what makes 1-5 good, BUT i do think he was good at recognizing story beats over a longer period of time and seeing when something wasn't working and knowing how to scrap it without it feeling too obvious. dabb era... has it's issues. but i did appreciate how he tried to do something different than the seasons before by bringing back mary, introducing jack (cas really did need his own storyline), and leaning more into the ensemble cast (<-that's something that really hurt gamble since she just killed them off lol). buckleming admittedly are not the worst at characterization, they just are bad at writing in almost every other respect so it's hard to enjoy it lol. like yeah dean telling chuck being a killer is "not who i am" is great, but i also had to hear mark pellegrino yell "cuck" three times. so. also i genuinely think fans forget about meredith glynn more than she deserves, she was a solid later seasons writer!! not perfect but when she hits, she hits.

[scoobydoodean]

#i still haven't gotten used to the newer folks calling snymelo 'carmyder' :'D

Castiel Angel of Thursday calling upon you to please use your angel powers to braeden-mind-wipe me so I can stop learning new ways to mash the names of two writers together who only wrote 9/327 episodes.

Girls on Tumblr dot com will be talking about supernatural writers and be like "ugh not a smithbarker episode" and five years later you find out that's two different guys whose names have been mashed together like everyone was supposed to just know that's what was happening.

[tiktaalic]

you can say many many many many many many MANY. things about eric kripke. but you cannot deny. that he had backbone. for going. okay yeah we're in a pinch as a favor to you robert singer we can use your nepotism wife for this episode. seeing the episode. and going. God damn. this shit sucks. they are never stepping foot in my writers room as long as i have tenure. this i can promise you. I promise no more #buckleming as long as i am in charge. i dont care about the nepotism that does not outweigh that they make a dogshit show and i care more about making a good show than cow towing to unskilled nepotism hires

[shinelikethunder]

i know that the most convenient shared reference point for splitting SPN into eras is by showrunner, but subjectively, the instinctive way my brain wants to divide it up is into just two shows: six seasons and change of a show powered by whatever the fuck is wrong with kripke and gamble, and then eight or nine seasons of a show powered by whatever the fuck is wrong with dabb and buckleming.

yeah carver was showrunner for some of those and gamble was hanging on by her fingernails in one, but there's... idk, a derailment that happens in s7. where the show's coherence, its plausibility as a continuation that's at least trying to build seamlessly on what came before, kinda falls down and never gets back up again. and this seems driven, not primarily by showrunner agenda (in fact the hallucifer arc is IMO the last shambling remnant of SPN v1), but by dabb/loflin and buckner/ross-leming stepping up as the meat-and-potatoes midseason episode writers + both duos getting bolder (or less tightly edited) about their worst tendencies.

(tbh i'm curious what carver's tenure would've looked like with a different set of writers taking point on the anchor episodes that weren't openers/finales, because haphazard execution of intriguing concepts was like theeee hallmark of s8-11. but all the same. carver and dabb eras and late gamble era feel grouped, to me, by similar implementation issues dragging down distinct overall approaches. aka "whatever the fuck is wrong with dabb and buckleming," which also includes more and more of their personal narrative kinks as the seasons go on.)

anyway none of this has any objective backstop to it that i can point to, beyond "gosh look at where the Writing Crimes Georg duos started getting handed entire mini-arcs." mostly it's just this vibe that s6 and some of s7 were still cooking in s1-5's kitchen? an attachment to the continuity there, which beats out the conceptual tidiness of "kripke era" as a line to draw between "classic" SPN and everything else. or, to be petty and specific, a sense that 7x03 and the dumbshit subplot it instigated were the shark-jump that SPN never even tried to recover from, after which it functionally became a different show that was far more loosely held together than its predecessor.