#wow this show is bad
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imagine creating a show that consistently shows a group of very damaged people who struggle to fit in with “normal” society, the consistent message of which is that life is worth EVERYTHING, that pushing forward in the face of unspeakable horrors and against seemingly impossible fates is worth it BECAUSE life and love and peace are priceless. and then ending that show by saying “the problem was actually that these weirdo fuckups Exist. and actually they cosmically deserve to be murdered and never should have been allowed to experience joy and happiness and peace or to move forward because they are fundamentally Bad.” imagine.
#the finale was deserved truthers dni. maybe the show set it up to be a tragedy but that wasnt even tragic it was just. pointless.#like okay so none of that meant anything then and the thing they fought so hard for meant nothing either because they COSMICALLY ARE BAD#this show has always had Issues but like… Wow. fuck off.#fuck offff. terrible. genuinely awful.#the umbrella academy#tua#tua s4 spoilers#tua season 4#tua s4
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So I’m watching Danny Phantom for the first time and in S1 E27, the Fenton Menace (great name, btw) Youngblood makes his second appearance. When he first showed up I was like “oh my word this is a child who died, that’s so freaking sad” and like yeah, but that’s standard for the show. Now you’re telling me he only appears to kids? As in adults never see him? Never notice him?
That. That brings up some implications I really don’t wanna think about.
#Like wow#was he neglected?#That seems most likely to me#He’s just so young#I can’t help but feel bad for him and given this information…#Sometimes I forget that this show is literally about kids who died#I’ve gotta find a fic or something#danny fenton#danny phantom#phandom
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STOP I'm thinking about the part in Gravity Falls where Stan shows up with freshly bought (stolen) light bulbs only to see Ford screwing a new one in surrounded by family.
And OH my GOD. AGH.
Stan gets a little (ir)rationally upset about this because... It's.. Guys,,,
Stan perceives it as Ford once again easily receiving the praise and love of their family when he had to fight tooth and nail to receive even half of it.... I'm not well ✋😔
#listen I might be too deep in the fandom space and i might actually be mischaracterizing them completely#I'm not saying that Dipper and Mabel don't appreciate and love Stan because they definitely do!!#I'm saying Stan is seeing Ford reintegrate into their new family and he's seeing him do it. so. easily.#So easily When Stan had to PRETEND to be FORD to get even a chance to be a part of their family again#Stan FOUGHT to be a part of this family#and Ford just gets to slide in and... just. be a part of it.#and i mean duh but also... man Idk#Stan had to pretend to be Ford to get even a smidgen of a foothold to be able to even just... interact with his family#Stan's a family man that HAS to look out for everyone but Ford's just.. family. He gets to just... be a part of them with no real obligatio#And I'm not saying Ford doesn't love his family I'm saying he's very repressed and bad at showing it sometimes#It's just that... Stan fought SO hard to be a part of his family. THIS family. That is all he has EVER wanted#and FORD- who had it and took it all for GRANTED- gets to waltz back in and just.... take it for granted AGAIN#hang on guys i think I'm starting to take this a little personally i need to calm down wow#Okay.... I think I'm good#But you get where I'm coming from#cole's talking#gravity falls#grunkle stan#stanley pines#grunkle ford#ford pines#stangst#stan twins#These tags really got away from me huh#Ahem-- all that to say I think Stan's vague resentment in that scene is valid!!
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[ cw: death mention / strangulation mention / stabbing mention / blood mention / self-sacrifice / codependency mention in tags / ]
I think a lot about how common it is for Raph to be the one to have direct focus put on him when Leo gets into all his near death experiences.
Like, when Leo is thrown off a building, it’s Raph who’s right there jumping after him, not even thinking about the consequences to himself when he does. When Leo almost gets skewered by the Krang, Raph’s right there to take the blow and send Leo to safety without a second thought. When Leo’s being strangled to near death, it’s a Krangified Raph doing the job, doing exactly what Raph would never, ever want to do. When Leo is telling Casey Jr to close the portal, it’s Raph who tries desperately to convince Leo otherwise.
Likewise, Leo is consistently very single minded when Raph gets forcibly separated from them. Both when in the sewers and by the Krang, Leo is dead set on finding Raph first and foremost.
I also think it’s interesting that during each of Leo’s near death experiences, the lightheartedness of his words during them goes directly hand in hand with both how close Raph is to him physically and how much danger Raph is also in in that moment. From a literal “I told you so” as Leo’s falling away from Raph to a soft joke about how “hero moves” are Raph’s style - both of these are on the more morbidly carefree side and both of these notably take Leo farther away from Raph and, in turn, have Raph not in immediate danger.
On the other side of things is the apology from Leo, heedless of the danger he himself is in as he seriously and genuinely speaks to a Krangified Raph face to face. Then there’s Leo’s freezing and desperation as Raph takes a hit meant for him and sends just Leo to safety, leaving Raph himself behind. Both of these involve much closer proximity and Raph being directly harmed - these together make Leo much more vulnerable in his words and actions, something not even the threat of death can make him.
These two care about each other so much, and they’re way too much alike for their own good.
#rottmnt#rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles#rottmnt raph#rise raph#rottmnt leo#rise leo#honorable mention to the time Leo desperately tried throwing himself into harm’s way to get to Karai#and Raph is the one who has to pull him back#I also think that it’s interesting how both of them go about self sacrifice#because wow they both have problems with it#Raph’s tends to be immediate reactions not even thinking as he throws himself over his bros#Leo’s are often shown to be ‘for the greater good’ (said greater good often being his family)#once again I am saying that post movie these two would likely have codependency issues#considering Raph’s already present acute seperation anxiety and Leo’s immediate memory of Raph standing over him bleeding#another thing to mention is how Future Leo’s actual death still falls into the whole ‘morbidly lighthearted words’ category#I also wanna point out that in Many Unhappy Returns the trust that Leo wants so much does NOT come from Splinter but from RAPH#side note but in regard to the fighting that Raph and Leo were up to during the time between the shredder and the krang#I think it’s interesting that it’s NOT depicted as screaming matches - very blatantly not this actually#also also! I totally love how the movie parallels Oroku Saki and Karai with Raph and Leo respectively#there are so many parallels in general in this show+movie it makes me froth at the mouth#and because it breaks my heart - the beginning of the movie had Raph getting angry at Leo and lashing out at him#the end of the movie has the Krang very very angry at Leo and lashing out at him#both of these times has Leo ‘ruining’ a mission so…bad parallels#in the movie as well there’s a Krangified Raph who beats Leo senseless#so I have to wonder if Raph and Leo just…can’t roughhouse anymore#else Leo would flinch or Raph would be so scared to accidentally hurt Leo like he was already used to do before#then suddenly their usual dynamic of Raph never having to be softer with Leo is thrown on its head#worse is if they’re so terrified of this dynamic leaving that they power through their own sufferings to maintain it
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Maybe Jane Austen's real genius was that, unlike other authors at the time, she didn't have long sections where characters share their backstory. Or rather, when she did it, she set it up like a mystery so we'd want to know the backstory.
Instead of having a character be like, "Here's three chapters about my life," soon after showing up in the novel, she'd sprinkle little clues through the story that make us wonder, "What's Colonel Brandon's deal?" and then closer to the end of the story, Colonel Brandon would tell us what his deal was. We'd wonder "Why does Mr. Darcy do all those horrible things?" and then he'd give an explanation that includes a lot of backstory.
And these infodumps always come in response to significant moments of the story. She'd engage our minds and our emotions and then give us the infodump at a point when we care about the information it contains. Compared to some other authors (even some that came long after) it seems like a significant innovation.
#jane austen#books#random thought of the day#anyway 'helen' had two solid chapters of a secondary character sharing her backstory#at a point where i'm like 'i literally did not need to know that you had your heart broken as a teenager'#'and struggled with temptations toward political corruption with your second husband'#nothing about the story had made me even slightly curious about her backstory#it's fine for what it is but wow was it unnecessary and wow did it grind the story to a halt#and this was published decades after austen died!#(although it continued to be a problem long after)#(my other major example of a bad infodump)#(was conan doyle having a character show up and give the resolution to the mystery)#(as a novella-length infodump about his entire life)
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Making Aegon a rapist was straight up bad and lazy writing.
Let me elaborate.
In the show, the first thing we learn about Aegon as an adult is that he is a rapist. We haven’t seen him yet but still we already know that he is an horrible despicable rapist, especially since Dyana is so young, which pretty much makes him a pedophile too. How could anyone root for a man like that ? And that’s where the problem begins.
Rhaenyra had already been established many times as the rightful heir to the throne in season 1. It has been made obvious that she would make a decent Queen too. In the meantime, it had already been shown that Aegon is not even a good person. He’s selfish, inconsiderate, a bully, and does not act like a prince at all. To put it plainly, he sucks big time and we as viewers already know it. Add what we saw in season 2, how reckless he gets, how he’s an alcoholic immature asshole, how he obviously knows nothing about strategics nor how to rule efficiently, or even how bad he is at high valyrian, and you can’t have anyone tell you in good faith that he would’ve been a better ruler than Rhaenyra.
However, had Aegon not been made a rapist, you would still feel for him even though he is not cut out to rule. Because he knows it too and tried to escape it and he was forced to attend his own coronation . Because this crown that he did not want does not fit him, even though he really tries to show that he is not as worthless as everyone seems to think and he just keeps failing. You would feel for him because the war ,that he has started when he was made an usurper by the people around him, has cost him his son’s life. Because the brother, who is partially responsible for his son’s death has now betrayed him and tried to kill him with dragonfire. Because the injuries he suffered make him look more and more like his father who never cared for him, never loved him and that he definitely hates. Which also probably why he tries so hard to make his mother proud of him and love him but he can’t and his main attempt has left him half-dead, half-burn. Not only that but his dragon, with whom he has the strongest bond known in Targaryen’s, history probably died during this futile attempt to prove himself. The only thing about his Targaryen’s heritage that he seems to care about has been destroyed all because he wanted to prove himself. Because he truly resents his Targaryen’s, his father’s heritage, it’s obvious, just as it is obvious that he didn’t want to marry his own sister but was forced to. It’s completely legitimate of him to want to distance himself as much as possible from everything that is Targaryen related. He is indeed more of an Hightower than a Targaryen, but can you really blame him for that ? Would you not try to fit somewhere else too, if you were in his place ? It’s all absolutely and undeniably tragic.
I wholeheartdely believe that, even if you would’ve root for Rheanyra to be Queen, you woud’ve probably still thought that Aegon, as bad as he is, did not deserves this much pain.
But because he is a rapist, well, he honestly does.
By not trusting the audience to see that Aegon is not a good person, nor a good a king, without having him comitting a literal crime, by making Aegon a rapist, the writers have annihilated any possibilities for an internal conflict regarding Aegon and Rhaenyra. The whole concept of « teams » just goes down the drain because of this lazy, manichaean, writing. And that, my friends, is bad writing at its peak.
#which is why i have decided to ignore it#I recognise that the writers have made a decision but given that it’s a stupid-ass decision I’ve elected to ignore it.#just as i ignore got seasons 7 and 8#i do not fuck with bad writing#we could’ve had it all#the siblings conflicts#the internal conflict of wow he’s an asshole but damn does he deserves all this shit ?#the internal conflit of I want Rheanyra to be queen but I don’t want her siblings to die a painful slow death either#Rheanyra got butchered too#if only she was a bit more flawed a bit more angry#show me a rightful heir that is kind of terrible but you still root for her#show me an usurper who kind of sucks but does not deserve all of his sufferings#make me doubt my loyalty for god’s sake#they just fucked up big time with all the characters#i hate it here#anti ryan condal#this is NOT a ryan condall safe place !!!!!#aegon ii targaryen#rhaenyra targaryen#alicent hightower#aemond targaryen#heleana targaryen#daemon targaryen#house of the dragon#hotd#hotd spoilers#hotd season 2#hotd season 1#rant post
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dad kakashi & accidental child acquisition au in which Mebuki Haruno specializes in weaving ninja wire into clothes. Sakumo first takes Kakashi there when he's still a toddler- he wants him to get used to the unusual feeling of the fabric. She does good work, she's chatty but polite, and Sakumo is the type of man who'd prefer to support a young woman starting out on her own as opposed to some large established clan.
After Sakumo dies, Kakashi keeps going. She's the only civilian seamstress who doesn't try to peak under his mask, and the only ninja-wire seamstress who doesn't try to find stuff out about his clan or his dad or his anbu career or- Mebuki's good. Familiar.
He doesn't really notice her pregnancy. Technically it registers, of course; there are obvious signs, she's not hiding it, and right before she's due she gives him a heads up so he won't be shocked if the store is closed for a little while and he needs something. But he's thirteen at the time and he's in ANBU and he really doesn't notice.
He notices Sakura. She's small, and she's pink. Her little head peaks out over Mebuki's shoulder as she takes Kakashi's measurements (he's grown again, because puberty is exhausting and expensive). Mebuki keeps her swaddled on her back just like Sakumo used to do to him, but that's where the similarities end.
She's not going to be a shinobi. She has little hands, and Mebuki doesn't let her hold scissors or needles, much less kunai. She stares up at the world with wide eyes, and sometimes she cries big wet tears. Mebuki has him hold her. He learned the right way to do it when team 7 was doing babysitting missions, but he hasn't done it since.
Mebuki's a single mom, and he knows how to watch a kid even if he doesn't have much practice. She makes him stick around and keep an eye on Sakura while she repairs his outfits, sews his new ones. After a while he starts to come in when he doesn't need anything done, just to help out. She smiles when she sees him, and Sakura waves her fat little arms in excitement, and Kakashi gets to have something nice in his life.
There's an accident. Mebuki dies. Kakashi kind of forgot that could happen- that people could die and it not be anyone's intent for it to go that way. That civilians can die at all. And Sakura-
there's no father in the picture, and no family. Mebuki came to Konoha from somewhere in Wave, and she never mentioned a family Sakura could get sent back to. Sakura will end up in an orphanage. She's got no chakra, no skillset, no obvious signs of a family lineage: She won't get adopted. Or she'll end up in whatever it is that keeps taking the kids that nobody pays attention to.
Somehow, Kakashi ends up seventeen years old with a three year old on his hip, standing in the upstairs of the Haruno Shop trying to figure out what he needs to take and what he has to leave and is he really, really doing this?
And then Sakura puts her pudgy little hand in his face and says "SMOOSH!" and squeezes his cheek and yes, of course, absolutely he's doing this. how hard can raising a civilian toddler while being an active anbu agent even be?
#sakura haruno#kakashi hatake#she shows up after the bell test to berate kakashi for something and immediately swoons over sasuke. and naruto swoons over her.#and kakashi immediately has an 'oh fuck no she CANNOT get attached to these kids these are SHINOBI KIDS'#hes very like. how girl dads are about their girls knowing boys? thats how he gets about sakura knowing shinobi#sakura you dont understand all shinobi are dangerous and gross and bad. with no ethics. also they dont bath enough#do NOT befriend them and DEFINITELY DONT TRY TO BE ONE!!!! PLEASE!!!! HE WILL HAVE A HEART ATTACK!!!!#meanwhile naruto is like wow ur pretty! do you wanna learn a forbidden jutsu? and sakuras like obviously. yes.#sasuke is gonna get so weird about her having a Big Brother raising her btw.
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someone on youtube shorts (don't judge me lol) said that the reason why people (specifically women, i guess) love viktor so much is because he awakens "an innate maternal instinct" bc of his "injury." tell me why i just gagged and fought back the temptation to write a hate comment.
#DOUBLE HOMICIDE!!!#get your freudian shit out of here!#he's an entire man! nothing childlike! that's literally so disgusting!!!#also injury???????#DID WE WATCH THE SAME SHOW? HE'S DISABLED.#wow i love going on the internet in the morning i never encounter anything bad or upsetting
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JULIE AND THE PHANTOMS (2020) // JULIE E OS FANTASMAS (2011) 1.01 - Wake Up // 1.01 - Enfrentando Fantasmas -> Julie meets the Band.
#julie and the phantoms#julie e os fantasmas#jatp#mine#mine:gif#storytime: when i was in middle school i found myself to be obsessed with julie e os fantasmas (jeof)#and by watching it i have learned some words in portoguese which - later in my life - i have always wanted to learn better#besides that - in middle school i used to wear julie's iconic side ponytail !! i was THE biggest jeof fan like EVER#i used to watch it with my little sister and i would pretend i had some ghosts friends as well - popping out of my stereo (lol)#so... flash forward to 2020. i can't recall HOW i found out about jatp... it's just that i have heard of it and i was like hold on...#does this have to do anything with jeof? so i was super intrigued and watched the pilot and YES!! a brand new up-to-date remake#of my favorite tv show as a kid LIKE WOW. and idk i thought it was somehow underground as the og one ... saw NO ONE talking about it online#until up recently when i got back on tumblr (actually 2 years ago) and i saw there was this LIVELY community of people appreaciating this#show AS MUCH as i was appreciating the og as a youngster.#goes without saying that it was so surprising to me and it healed parts of me that i didn't think needed to be healed. wow. just wow.#i have never posted content for these two bad boys#mostly bcs i was salty that jatp was canceled (ugh) until now!! i hope you enjoyyyyy#ALSO i remember as a kid i was watching jeof on tv right? but i had missed some episodes so i remember LMAO going online and there was this#website (like a random person's own website) that was hosting all of the episodes. my very first experience with streaming series online
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timcassie is so compelling to me. they were not into each other even a little bit. it was such a messy coping mechanism fuelled entirely by grief. they were making out with each other because they were both substituting each other for kon. cassie was far more aware she was doing this than tim was. unironically, dating a girl here is one of the gayest things tim has done
#rimi talks#it is SO messy and its so fun. i don't think geoff even realized the implications but they sure are there when you read it#god... you know its BAD when modern comics have me missing tt03 of all Fucking comics#but like. todays ''tell don't show'' writers would N E V E R do something this interesting#tom taylor would be all. oh! tim we shouldn't kiss. i'm just substituting you for kon because i miss him and you were his best friend!#and then he'd have tim go oh wow cassie you're right i didn't realize that! my bad. all forgiven? yay!!! :)#GOD YOU KNOW ITS BAD OUT HERE WHEN I THINK *GEOFF* DID SOMETHING RIGHT. GOD. GOD#GEOFF MY MORTAL ENEMY GEOFF. grits teeth yeah geoffrey i have to give you this one............#its just such a deliciously unhealthy coping mechanism. theyre a MESS. theyre using each other. theyre only able to go on bc of each other#its not a romance but it IS a codependency#bart isn't even dead yet when this happens. like. he's just off being the flash.#bart (extremely depressed bc he couldnt stop sbp and hold him in the speed force forever): :| ok#not his circus. not his monkeys.#well it is his monkeys even if he left the circus. but he's too depressed to deal with it#but its so fun. this relationship is haunted. there's a ghost in the middle. they both want to kiss him instead of each other.#tim#cassie#timcassie
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I didn’t sit here for years tryna stay calm and silent while listening to your bad takes on gale (who grew up oppressed, in poverty and then witnessed his entire district getting wiped out then rightly went to fight in the rebellion because it was his inlg chance of tearing down the system the wanted him and his family dead) being a “terrorist war criminal who is single handedly responsible for killing innocent people including prim and who is the REAL villain of the hunger games” just for y’all to turn and start stanning and defending actual facist dictator and child trafficker Coriolanus Snow because you saw a young hot version of him.
#i actually do enjoy coryo as a villain and liked his origin story but people are really making excuses for him? and they know what he became#gale hawthorne#the hunger games#anti coriolanus snow#tbosas#like even in tbosas he shows that he is a sociopathic narissist. he tries to be good but those traits are still there and he embraced them#as for gale he was oppressed his entire life and lived in the poorest part of panem and resents the rich who were complicit in his suffering#the things he does for the resistance were things he thought was neccessary to win to end oppression#the other option was losing the rebellion and getting tortured killed and allowing snow to cause a lot more suffering#do i agree w everything he does? no because he is a character with flaws but i dont blame him one bit for decisions after the genocide of 12#he has to live with the consequences of what happened during the war and what he had to do to survive#but he is not a bad person for fighting back and willing to kill to survive he also does not understand the toll it takes to have to kill#him and snow are the same age and they both choose survival but snow is choosing power for himself and restoring his families wealth#and gale is choosing to join the rebellion and willing to fight for the sake of the rest of his people and to put an end to the suffering#one creates an oppressive society and one is tearing down that society both do whatever it takes#wow i guess i have more thoughts on gales character than i originally thought and the comparisons with snow are interesting
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Saw a post about jmart being a toxic relationship and like.. shocker the guy who who literally eats peoples trauma, therefore retraumatizing them, then lives in their nightmares forever and the guy who disappears when talking to people and purposely self isolates aren’t the perfect healthy boyfriends. Wow no one could have seen that coming. Would you prefer stabby girl and the girl who cant feel fear that have a little cult together, police brutality wolf x ruthless efficiency, or fire lady x fire massiah? perhaps evil eye man and his ex husband if we’re getting really wild?
#like wow the podcast about eating fear doesn't have perfect representation bc the characters are bad people#I am so surprised by this#I think Melanie and Georgie have objectively the healthiest relationship in the show#but none of them are going to be perfect because this isn't a show about being perfect#it's a horror podcast#jmart#jonmartin#the magnus archives#tma#jonathan sims#martin blackwood
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Granted I never finished my little pony or even got to cozy glow at all but I see people complain about how she "didnt deserve her fate" bc she was "literally a child" and I feel like its missing how the target audience are also children. Like a 9 year old isnt gonna see cozy glow as "a small baby child who was never given room to redeem herself, she shouldn't have been turned to stone like the other villains" they're gonna see her as "just like that mean girl in school who always picks on me and never gets in trouble for it because the teachers like her, I'm GLAD she got turned to stone! FUCK tiffany!"
#text#in general for childrwns shows or books or what have you#you shouldnt use the 'omg theyre only children...' excuse unless it is actually used in the text#bc the target demo isnt gonna think 'theyre only children' theyre gonna think 'theyre just like me!'#its like whenever there are child protagonists saving the world and adult fans say 'omg theyre child soldiers...'#like its okay if thats what you get from an adult reading but i think you should acknowledge how its SUPPOSED to be for the kid target demo#who will see it and think 'wow that girl is my age (or a couple years older) and doing all sorts of exciting things!'#and then they hope they get to go on an adventure some day#tldr. theres nothing wrong with engaging with art for a younger age range from the pov of an adult#but i think we can ALL get a bit too ahead of ourselves sometimes and forget that it was written for children#and the big bad is supposed to be equivalent to a childs school bully or maybe a slightly grouchy grandma
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shows like nbc hannibal and true detective (season one at least) are not cop propaganda at their core. criminal minds and b99 are. hope this helps
#🦌#dexter counts too. probably twin peaks too but i haven't finished that (as not cop prop)#you can talk about how the crime procedural as a genre may always lean cop prop but if you#walk away from the show thinking 'wow they're so good at catching bad guys and saving the day' its cop prop#and you DO NOT think that leaving either shows#like yeah will and rust (and marty) are good investigators but they are shown going clearly out of their power and abusing it in some cases
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I had to do it
#it'll be afun family show they said#but look where they reached#ho-ny grip#miles quaritch#avatar 2#lmao#avatar 2009#avatar the way of water#lyle wainfleet#mansk#miles quaritch x reader#avatar wow memes#avatar memes#space#jake sully#the sully family#the boys#saul goodman#better call saul#breaking bad
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Is there a reason Marinette’s lying to Adrien about Gabriel doesn’t make sense to you from a character-standpoint? She’s lied a fair bit in the show for reasons other than keeping her identity or crush on Adrien a secret, and her love for Adrien has consistently created a blind spot for her in terms of her “general” morals/behavior.
Is there something more specific to Marinette’s pattern of behavior that indicates how her lying about Gabe would be OOC, or is the lie something you believe Canon!Marinette should recognize as too egregious to take part in?
(The closest alternative explanation I’ve seen thus far is that she shouldn’t have any reason to lie for Gabe because they share zero good will, but if we interpret it as lying for Adrien, then I’m not sure if that explanation fits.)
I have, admittedly, not gone through the show and tracked every lie that Marinette has ever told to see if I can weave together a pattern that backs Marinette's behavior at the end of season five. It's possible that there's a lie that I'm forgetting that would totally change my stance and, if you think that's the case, then feel free to respond to this with a comment or an ask on that topic! My "this is BS" stance is based on the overall story of the show and the ways that I've seen people try to justify the season five lies as those are the arguments that I've thought through and found lacking.
We'll start by discussing the two lies people use to try to back Marinette's behavior at the end of season five: the scarf and Chat Blanc. Then I'll talk about the story's lead up to the season five lies and why it makes for a horribly unsatisfying story in my eyes. If someone gave this to me, I'd be suggesting some major edits to make it work on a technical level.
The Scarf
For those who don't remember, the season one episode The Bubbler sees Marinette make Adrien a scarf for his birthday. She drops the scarf off at the Agreste mansion with a note for Adrien and the hope that this will get him to finally notice her. Nathalie then takes the scarf and uses it as a gift from Gabriel instead. Marinette learns about this during this exchange at the very end of the episode:
Alya: Yo, nice scarf, Adrien. Off the chain. Adrien: Yeah, can you believe my dad got this for me? (Marinette looks surprised) it's so awesome. He's been giving me the same lame pen for three years in a row.... Alya:(to Marinette) You gotta tell him you were the one who knitted the scarf. Marinette: But he seems so happy about his dad. I don't want to spoil it for him. Alya: Aw, Marinette. (they hug.) You're amazing, girl. You know that, right? And someday Adrien will figure it out too. Promise.
I can see why someone would look at this and call it a setup for the end of season five. There are some parallels here. The problem is that there are a lot of massive differences, too. Differences that make this a really crappy setup:
Marinette does not lie in this scene. She simply overhears a lie and doesn't correct it. Remove her and Alya from the scene and nothing changes. The lie still exists. Meanwhile, without Marinette, the season five lies would never have come to be.
Marinette knows about the scarf lie for about a minute on screen. She hears about it and tells Alya to let it go within the same scene. That's a gut reaction, not a carefully planned and considered deceit. Once again, wildly different from what season five gives us.
Adrien and Marinette aren't shown to be close friends in season one. They rarely talk to the point that I didn't even know that they were supposed to be friends until we got to Origins. That complicates correcting the scarf lie. How does Marinette approach a random classmate and explain a situation that she doesn't even fully understand herself? That's very different from Ladybug telling a lie to a civilian or Marinette lying to her boyfriend.
Season one Marinette has no idea how messed up Adrien's home life is. All she knows is that Adrien liked her gift, but that he thinks it came from a different person. She doesn't even know that a lie was involved in this confusion! As far as she's aware, this could just be a minor misunderstanding that she'd rather let go because does it really matter who the gift is from? This is extra true because the scarf never comes up again, meaning that this is not an ongoing or damaging lie as far as canon is concerned.
That last point and the issue of Marinette never actually telling the lie herself are probably the biggest points in Marinette's favor. If Adrien wore the scarf all the time and used it as a comfort when he was fighting with his dad, then you'd have a solid case for Marinette needing to say something because the lie is arguably doing actual harm. This is especially true if you let Adrien say things like, "I wear this to remember that my father loves me," to Marinette. But that's not what canon did.
As far as canon is concerned, the scarf lie exists for all of a minute. A minute in which Adrien expresses delight in the gift, but gives it very tepid weight in terms of what it means for his relationship with his father. (Adrien's room is full of nice gifts, I don't think a scarf was going to make-or-break their relationship.) After that, the scarf never comes up again, meaning that Marinette's gut reaction to not immediately destroy Adrien's happiness is all we get. That's hardly a great setup for her being the source of massive ongoing lies about Adrien's personhood and the truth of his father's abuse.
I'll also remind you that this all happened at the very start of the show. The Bubbler is one of the first episodes people see. If this is your best argument for Marinette's behavior five seasons later, then we have a major writing problem on our hands. You should not have to dig back to the very start of the show to justify a major character beat like this. There should be more relevant material. We'll circle back to that problem in a minute. First let's quickly touch on lie two and why it also falls flat.
Chat Blanc
Another thing people point to as foreshadowing for the season five lies is the fact that Ladybug kept Chat Blanc from Chat Noir and, if Chat Blanc was actually affecting her, then I would agree with this take. However, that doesn't seem to be the case. The official story is that Ladybug's actions in season four had nothing to do with Chat Blanc. It was just guardian stress! If that's true, then I don't think she should tell Chat Noir about Chat Blanc.
Why?
Since when do we tell people about all the awful things they did while they were akumatized? There's no point to that. It's cruel. Do you think that Ladybug also needs to walk him through everything he did while under the control of various akumas like Dark Cupid? If no, then how is Chat Blanc any different? What's the value in telling Chat Noir the gory details of what will happen if he ever has a moment of weakness and becomes akumatized? He already knows that it will be bad! Why tell him exactly how bad it will be? I can't come up with a single good canonical reason.
Ladybug has no idea what caused Chat Blanc, so she can't warn Chat Noir what he needs to avoid. You can't even use the "he should know about Bunnyx" argument because that wasn't Bunnyx's debut. Canonically speaking, the only reason that Ladybug should talk to Chat Noir about Chat Blanc or any other bad thing that he's done while under the power of an akuma is if it's effecting her or their partnership and it's apparently not! That's why Marinette never reacts to Chat Noir getting a white makeover (see: the Paris special & Jubilation) and why Chat Blanc is never discussed in the show outside of that one brief nightmare callback in Sentibubbler.
To be clear, I think that's an asinine choice as Chat Blanc's memory hurting Ladynoir would have been semi-decent foreshadowing for the season five lies, but the writers decided to go another route. They also let Chat Blanc haunt Adrien even though he doesn't know about it, which I don't even know how to dissect because it's such terrible writing! If you don't know what I'm talking about, this is the official explanation for why Adrien couldn't make it to the final fight. The reason for the white-and-blue Chat Noir that haunted his nightmares:
Mélanie says that he "could become Chat Blanc" and the others add that even though he does not remember and has never lived it, Chat Blanc still has an influence on his actions.
Quality writing here folks. Quality writing. At the very least have season five Adrien be freaked out about the fact that he cataclysmed a human! That would make this make at least a little sense, but we don't get that. Instead we get Adrien almost cataclysming several akumas like it's no big deal while having nightmares about a thing he's never even been told about (see: Derision and Jubilation and probably other's I'm forgetting.)
The Events of Season Four and Five
As you can hopefully see, we don't have a great, ongoing pre-end-of-season-five lie to point to as proof that Marinette would decide to tell the massive lies that she does. That's a pretty big writing flaw, but it's not a show stopper. A lie like this could still fit her character if the story sets it up right.
The problem is that the story doesn't do that. It actually sets Marinette up to be primed to want to tell the truth.
For all Miraculous' nonsensical and wacky writing, the season five lie still comes at the end of two seasons with relatively clear messages. Those messages were to trust others and avoid lies. Let me show you what I mean.
While season four's writing is an absolute disaster, we cannot ignore the fact that the stated lesson in Strikeback is that Marinette learned to trust others, give up control, and stop lying:
Ladybug: Why don't you just give up on me? I've lost ALL the Miraculous! I'm the worst Guardian EVER! I wanted to control everything, I didn't listen to you, I lied to you, I kept you at a distance! Every time you offered me a helping hand, I never took it! I really made a mess of EVERYTHING! (continues sobbing)
This is what Marinette says to Chat Noir directly after losing the Kwamis. This is the lesson that she supposedly learned. The end note of the season. The word of god meant to be internalized by children everywhere. The show even goes so far as to have Ladybug give Chat Noir more responsibility in the first episode of season five (Evolution):
Cat Noir: Catch, m'lady! (throws the Rabbit Miraculous at Ladybug and she catches it) Only the holder of the Rabbit Miraculous can open a time portal. Ladybug: (contemplates shortly then places the Rabbit Miraculous on his chest, smiling) You do it, kitty. Cat Noir: You want me to control time? Ladybug: It's you and me, remember?
Really driving home this idea that Ladybug is going to be more trusting and open with others moving forward.
The meat of season five sees Marinette and Adrien start dating. During this arc, Marinette learns to be more open with her feelings around Adrien while also being confronted with the reality of just how messed up Adrien's home life is. Marinette and Gabriel clash with each other over Adrien with Marinette fighting for Adrien's freedom and Gabriel trying to control everything:
Gabriel: I don't think you understand, child, so let me put things differently. Life is like fashion. You think you have a choice, but all you have is the illusion of choice. And I decide what choices are given to you. Marinette: You're wrong! (Shows Gabriel her sketchbook.) Fashion is about listening to people, it's about understanding who they are, what excites them and creating the clothes that will help them express their inner world. Help them connect with others and make their dreams come true.
This conflict means that Marinette and Gabriel do not have a single positive interaction in the entire season outside of maybe the final. We also see Adrien defy his father more than ever before. This is not the kind of setup you write if you want Marinette to tell Adrien that his father was a hero. Why in the world would she think that he'd want to be told that kind of lie? Why would he even buy it after all of the things that Gabriel has done? The final literally sees Adrien locked in a padded prison cell!!! Writers, what are you doing??? Why did you write this???
There's also the fact that season five has a major theme of lies = bad. It's the season where Lila's lies are finally outed, but only after they almost cost Marinette's friends their futures. For those who need a reminder: Lila tried to mess with the forms that stated where everyone wanted to go for lycée and would have succeeded in pulling off that harm and blaming it on Marinette were it not for the lies being outed.
On top of that, we also see Adrien keeping the plan to ship him off to London from Marinette, ending in this exchange:
Marinette: (on the video call) Adrien! Adrien: (voice breaking; in tears) Marinette, I should've told you sooner, but... up until the last minute, I thought I'd find a solution. I tried everything, I swear. Marinette: (on the video call) Adrien, what's... what's going on? Adrien: I have to leave Paris. (his voice breaks) I'm not worthy of your love. I feel terrible for hurting you.
Adrien kept the truth from Marinette to try to keep her from being hurt and ended up hurting her more than he otherwise would have because they don't even get a proper goodbye.
None of this is a solid setup for Marinette turning around and lying to Adrien about his father. Why would she do that after all of the harm lies and Gabriel caused in season five? Between this and season four, she has not been setup to want to lie to Adrien. Season five needs massive rewrites to make that choice work! (Note: I have yet to see the London special, but based on everything I've heard, I think it's just going to cement my annoyance at Marinette's wishy-washy writing by continuing to ignore the plot of the seasons leading up to the final and the special.)
Final Thoughts
I don't think that Marinette lying to Adrien about his dad is a terrible idea. It's a believable struggle! It just doesn't fit her character's journey. They've failed to have her tell that type of lie before and they had her tell this lie after two seasons where the main lessons were how much lies have hurt her and the people that she loves. If she hasn't gotten the message that you shouldn't lie by now, then when exactly is she going to learn it? It's incredibly hard for me to get invested in characters that aren't allowed to grow and learn from their mistakes and Miraculous has made it abundantly clear that it will not let these characters grow if growth messes with the plot that the writers want to tell.
I will openly admit that I think that Marinette's lie was a last minute retcon to make there be a cliffhanger to season six, but let's ignore that and give a quick three-point plan of how you could make this ending work:
Really lean into the negative consequences of people knowing the truth about things. Nino knowing Alya's identity outing Alya. Luka getting shipped off to Brazil. Make the truth hurt Marinette at every turn. Basically remove all lies = bad consequences and have Ladybug see losing the miraculous be the result of trusting others because she trusted "Adrien" and lost, leading her to keep pushing people away
Don't let Lila be outed. Have Lila be a good president and make that part of her big plan for the next season.
Have Gabriel and Marinette get along. Gabriel has said that Adrien is like Emilie, let Gabriel see himself in Marinette, leading Gabriel to trust Marinette to be Adrien's support should the worst happen. Let the final fight be a heartbreaking moment between two people who have an actual relationship built around loving Adrien. Have Adrien going to London be a "convenient" trip to get him out of the way on the day of the evil plot and not a prison sentence so that Gabriel doesn't look cartoonishly evil. Make it feel like he cares! Sell the redemption!
Do that and, yeah, I'd buy Marinette's choice even without setup lies because you don't need setup lies! Setup lies don't matter anywhere near as much as selling this lie and the writers simply didn't do that. I don't believe for a second that Marinette would lie for Gabriel or think that this was what Adrien wanted based on the relationship season five gave us for those three characters. It is so glaringly obvious that this is nothing more than a stalling tactic that has nothing to do with Marinette's character and everything to do with the show's rule that "there must always be a secret between Adrien and Marinette." I genuinely struggle to understand how anyone sees it as anything else.
#anon ask#ml season 5 salt#marinette deserves better#ml writing salt#ml writing critical#I have to say doing these writeups really drives home the bad writing more than actually watching the show#Because I try not to think too hard while watching the show#Then someone asks a question and I have to think it through and it's like “wow this writing is so much worse than I thought”#Give these guys a Razzie award!
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