#would he survive touden party

[burnazog]

[bigfan-fanfic]

A Delving Song (Monster!Reader x Laios Touden)

Could I request a Laios fic where he meets a new monster, your choice, that is surprisingly sentient who joins the party? I just think it would be cute and fluffy.

Laios tilted his head. That didn't sound like the normal song the sirens on this floor of the dungeon would sing.

Marcille and Chilchuck are still asleep. And Senshi's off checking his golem farms.

So Laios wanders off towards the pool of water where you sit.

It's a ways off from typical mermaid territory.

And you yourself seem different from other mermaids. Your lower half is covered in feathers, not scales, and you have small wings protruding from your back.

"To eat is the privilege of the living... all things must eat to survive..."

Laios looks at you, in awe as you continue to sing a song of resilience and endurance. He's absolutely enchanted. And he quickly opens his mouth to sing with you once he memorizes the simple tune.

You startle badly, yelping, and waving your arms, summoning streams of waters like vipers to rise around you.

"Whoa! Please, I didn't mean any harm. I just really liked your song."

You frown. "Tallmen like you don't sing. They attack."

Laios puts down his sword. "See? No attacking."

"You're... different."

Laios grins and nods. "That's right. You see... I wanna know more about creatures like you. Are you a mermaid? You seem to be similar and different."

"I think your kind calls me a siren. But most of us get hunted, because our songs can be dangerous. We have some control over water too."

"That's incredible. Do you come up with your own songs?"

"We sing the tune - others seem to hear what they really want to hear. Unlike mermaids, the charming of it all seems to come from the prey."

"Why are you all alone?" Laios asks bluntly, tilting his head when your face falls.

"My flock were... hunted by a group of tallmen. I escaped. The mermaids don't want me because we bring adventurers that kill."

Laios frowns. "Well, that's no good. Maybe... maybe you could come with our group. I'm sure once they hear you speak and reason, they'll have no problem."

You smile sharp teeth at the tallman. "What are you called?"

"Laios."

You let the water slip down into the pool and move forward in a crouch, finally pressing your head into his metallic stomach. "Thank you, Laios."

Chilchuck is the most suspicious of you, clearly not happy with the idea of letting a monster into the party. Even a clearly reasoning and thinking one like you.

Marcille is a bit more welcoming, especially as she hopes you can teach her some of your water magic.

Laios initially thinks you're amphibious like a fishman but as you don't breathe water it becomes clear you're more of a bird than anything else.

Marcille immediately shuts down any further discussion because she senses it getting uncomfortably close to figuring out what exactly you taste like.

But considering you grew up in the dungeon, your expertise makes travel much easier. Senshi also is able to take some extra parts of monsters the party has collected to make some water skins for you to carry water through the more dry areas for you to use as a weapon.

Laios is always eager to hear about monster culture - just as you are about the cultures of the surface. Marcille and Laios spend many meal breaks discussing with you about what your lives and daily activities are like

Chilchuck doesn't share, but then again he also doesn't share with anyone else, so it's not like it's an anti-monster sentiment.

But eventually you find yourself nestling close to Laios when it's time to rest for the night.

And one night, when he rolls over and rests his head in your feathers, you don't mind. You like the tallman and his unique opinions.

And perhaps these feelings may soon grow and evolve.

Until then, the party together shall eat, and almost more than their meals, their growing friendship is delicious.

Delicious in dungeon.

[choking-on-ice]

ok ok, fighter Laios is great and all, but I raise you

Paladin Laios

arguably that's kinda what he is by the end of the season anyway (his magic being akin to a paladin's spell casting ability (or he's an Eldritch Knight))

But just picture a younger Laios finally becoming an adventurer along with his sister, and he swears an oath of fealty not to any god or king or nation but to Falin

Falin, a cleric of the grave, who bathed him in holy light as she defended his life in the dungeons. Who would lay down her own life for him, and whom Laios would fall on his own sword to protect. These two holy guardians who are fighting tooth and nail for the other sibling to survive.

(I'm drunk in the spare bedroom avoiding people at a party and feeling perfectly normal feelings about the idea of paladin/cleric Touden Siblings)

[mango-macaron]

Tragedy? In Dunmeshi? Yeah it's there alright.

Kabru, an orphan, raised by a high elf who views his species as infants. Who hates monsters because his home town was massacred by a dungeon being overrun.

Laois, alone for his childhood years, floating around and only finding direction in his sister. Wanting to save her because he doesn't know what to do or where to go without her.

Falin, sneaking out of school to see her brother, only in the magic school because of helping one spirit and being outcast by the village that saw her save him. Using her last amount of energy to save her party, knowing she would die.

Marcille, tied to the hip with Falin. Her best friend, follows her and they teach one another. Uses dark magic to resurrect her crush to see it crumble in front of her eyes as her best friend turns into a monster, something she hates.

Senshi, not feeling the same interests as his race is associated with. Treats monsters with delicacy, how he wants to be treated. Saw his olders die from a monster he didn't know, slowly starved in front of him as he barely got enough to survive. Makes sure they don't feel the same hunger he did.

Chilchuck, divorced. The one love he had separating from him, barely seeing his kids. Union worker, has seen first hand how his race has been treated and strives to make them protected as workers.

Izustumi, unable to be wholly human. Part monster, feels pitied on by Shuro's family, can't accept the Touden party's affection since she's not used to the feeling. Craves parental love more than anything, but can't break down the wall she's made of herself. Afraid to get hurt.

Toshiro, alienated from his family much like Laois was with the army. His culture is part of him, engraved into his core, but no one on the island understands. Not even he understands sometimes.

They're all my favourites because I, too, make really depressing oc lore./j

[pyreo]

I'm comparing the Dungeon Meshi manga to episodes I just watched and now I gotta capital-p Post about this one episode (spoilers past Episode 12)

So this part is an emotional side-step from the central throughline so far - Laios and Marcille got Falin back successfully and reunited, and they got that payoff from the very beginning where they thought it would be impossible. But Chilchuck is very much a part of these layers of development, so after that dragon finally dies, we stop for a second - Laios and Marcille are recovering, Falin has disappeared again - how does Chilchuck feel at that point?

It's the perfect stage to insert that because he didn't really share in that sense of victory in the same way as Laios and Marcille recovering someone extremely close to them. And that's on purpose because he keeps everyone at arms' length. As soon as that arc hits its end and Falin is recovered, there's at last space to ask - why is Chilchuck even here.

He's asking himself that through the chapter. Now that they've lost the person they intended to save, he regrets agreeing to come.

And starts shouldering responsibility for everything ending up this way. We saw that when he got stuck in the mimic room before - he refuses to let himself ask for help, or he'll try to take burdens alone to lessen relying on others. The original Touden Party was six people, and when Laios insisted on going back underground they were two, and he knew they would die, and figured maybe, maybe if they were one more, with his skillset, maybe they'd have a chance. He couldn't let them walk back down just to die.

And he's going back to that mindset - their lives are on me. He thinks he could have prevented this if he'd chosen differently. Essentially, the walk alongside the orc woman is him working through a guilt spiral.

He sees a second chance to correct that mistake of joining the party. He wants them out now, before they die. The orc asks him how they defeated a dragon and, in explaining it, he reminds himself of all the risky, ridiculous things they had to do, and he isn't satisfied with just getting lucky. Laios got his foot bitten off, on purpose! This proves to him that if they go any further they will not survive. And he hints at this dissatisfaction a couple chapters later, wishing his teammates prioritised things other than winning at all costs...

Like, obviously. The point of this chapter is Chilchuck pretending to be a self-serving coward. To the point where others react with disdain, even disgust, towards him because he wants to lie to Marcille and Laios to ensure they turn back. He's desperate to get out of a hopeless situation by any means necessary, and will destroy his standing in the group in a blink if it means nobody else dies. He has to go on a stupid mental health walk for his stupid mental health and talk through his little bout of panic and doubt.

'You called me a coward so don't be surprised when I act accordingly'

He needs someone very blunt to tell him 'dude you're not being a coward for wanting your friends to get out of hell alive. you're a coward for making excuses instead of honestly telling them your concern is genuine' and he BSODs about it. He needs to rant and externalise that frustration over their recklessness at a third party. He needs to scream that they are idiots because he's the only one for which the ends don't justify the means and he can't keep losing his mind over everyone's safety. Down to a point, the orc praises their ability to survive the explosion from the dragon's fuel sac, and it only justifies Chilchuck - Falin didn't even know she could cast the spell that stopped them all being killed, and they cannot continue getting lucky like this.

Anyway. The reason I stopped to think about it was this part-

Where he recovers Laios's monster-infused sword. The thing that made their situation in the dragon fight go from bad to worse, that he swore at Laios for in every language he knew. The most angry we'd seen him. And now he calmly picks it up and praises it for being the only one of them smart enough to make a run for it.

He's projecting, obviously. He's internalising the label of 'coward' and changing himself to fit it. And, look at him, he's so tired of this. It's evidence of his sheer exhaustion that his anger immediately disappears and he actually gives it a compliment. Him and Laios's sword, the group cowards, the only one who agrees with him.

Then, because he had a walk before getting into the argument, he's organised his feelings and drops all the walls and pretense and just says it.

There's a rule of writing where you contrast your high energy sequences with parts that are slow and mundane, to make the difference more apparent. I think that's why I like this bit so much. The fight against the dragon is long, and the emotional stakes are enormous. Right after that we have the bath scene with Falin and Marcille, and Laios ruffling Falin's hair, and this part that pauses everything to explore the stuff that Chilchuck finally needs to say. And it's wrapped in this neat little solemn journey to pick up their supplies and remember how it felt when all five of them had a meal around a real dinner table at last.

And because he doesn't resort to individualistic trickery, because he explains his point as a duty of care rather than pitting himself against the others, he gets backed up. Senshi agrees that they don't have the supplies to continue, and the orc lady mentions her brethren will return later and can give them support, all of which together breaks down Laios's singleminded devotion to his cause.

Personally I think the manga's better suited to comic timing, but in the anime you can get fleshed out little moments, like Laios's face journey as he realises the other three are making a good case for their survival.

This was my favourite part so far, and I like how both Chilchuck-centric episodes have separated him from the others. Because he won't reveal anything he's thinking otherwise. lmao

[questions-about-blorbos]

This question was sent to our inbox and we made a separate poll in response to it. If you want to put your Blorbo in a situation of your choice and see if people think they’ll survive, send your Blorbo and the situation in which you want to see them to our inbox and we’ll post a poll for you! (For more information, check our pinned post.)

[sketching-shark]

Laios Dungeonmeshi- i mean, Laios Touden for the ask game, cuz i think you've already been asked of all of the JTTW crew alot

Thanks for the ask @seasonalsummers! And apologies to you and everyone else who's sent me asks only for me to take 5 billion years to reply (X_X)

But Laiooooosss...seems like everyone and their mother is talking about him these days, and for good reason lol. I guess for the most part I'd go with the majority of saying that he's a neat character for a number of reasons, from being a genuine freak but not a pervert to his strong desire for friendship & the way that gets messed up and repaired to the way his love of monsters is significantly defined by how alienated he feels from much of humanity. I can't remember who said it, but he kind of reminds me of this quote I stumbled across where the speaker was noting how a reason many prefer the company of animals to that of humans is the way that animals are often very direct with their intentions and desires, whereas humans have a habit of hiding who they are and what they truly want. So especially for a manga that's all about the nature of desire, the potentially cataclysmic consequences of misreading intent, but also the absolute necessity of forming bonds with living things of all kinds to survive, Laios does make for a great protagonist.

I honestly didn't really ship him with anyone on my first read-through of the manga, but after seeing some posts on how well the compliment each other Kabru x Laios is growing on me. I think it really helps that both Kabru and Laios have goals, interests, and friend groups that lie outside of each other, but that they can complement each other so well thanks to each one possessing skills that the other one lacks and both sincerely wanting to help their loved ones. I do think it helps as well that Ryōko Kui didn't feel the need to demonize or dumb either Laios or Kabru down to make their friendship work. Hell, while Laios does become king Kabru becomes his advisor, and the manga itself stands testament to why that's a partnership that's likely for the best.

AUGH it's really hard to pin down but one non-romantic OTP for Laois given how much he loves each member of his party, but I guess ultimately I'd have to say Senshi. Besides being a fun character it was thanks to this dwarf's culinary skills with monster bits that Laios and his party were able to make the attempt to get Falin back in the first place, after all! More importantly for me however is the way Senshi has a deep understanding of the cycles that need to be maintained in order for a world of eating and being eaten to continue, and his explanation of them is something that I do think helped inform Laios's decisions which ultimately resulted in him saving the world from being consumed.

I don't think that it's a deeply unpopular opinion, but I do agree with others who've said that Laios's bouts of insensitivity and even outright bigotry shouldn't be dismissed as just him being autistic. Ryōko Kui made it pretty clear that biases of all kinds have an important hand in shaping what the world of Dungeon Meshi is like, and it definitely decreases the richness of the story to pretend that the main characters, Laios included, don't have any.

I do think that Dungeon Meshi ending where it did makes a lot of sense, but tbh I wish that we had seen more about what Laios is like as a king dealing with the more mundane day-to-day tasks of ruling. I do like that he apparently spends a lot of time and energy on the production and distribution of food, but I'd be keen to see what that would actually look like in practice, especially given the state of the island and the way a lot of the fantasy races which have long histories of being hostile towards each other are living alongside each other there. Dungeon Meshi is quite clear about Laios having a lot of difficulty reading people, and it would be interesting to see how that would play out with him in a position that's largely all about telling what people want and why and responding accordingly. Of course keep in mind this is coming from someone who's list of favorite books includes Moby-Dick (which contains lengthy descriptions of what's actually involved in boiling down whales for their oil) and the obscure sci-fi Grasp the Stars (who's hero is a middle-aged woman dealing with diplomatic emergencies at a space port), so my desire for this kind of expansion of Laios lore is probably not what most people want lmao.

[doorbloggr]

Getting lost in fictional worlds

Wednesday 1/3/23

Media Recommendations #46

Content:

Dungeon Meshi

Disco Elysium

Dungeon Meshi/Delicious in Dungeon

Ryoko Kui

Dungeon Meshi is a fantasy action/comedy manga that has been running since 2014. At the time of writing, the manga has not reached its conclusion, but I feel its getting close. Its funny, heartwarming, has an interesting world and an endearing art style.

Pitch

The story is set in a classic high fantasy world, where underground structures called Dungeons litter the landscape. Dungeons are a complex set of biomes in their own right with advanced magic systems, including the unique quirk that adventurers who die in a dungeon can be revived fairly reliably. It is fairly standard D&D in its initial presentation, but the world has a uniquely real spin on the standard fantasy format.

We follow the party of Laios Touden, a human fighter, who's sister, Falin, a human cleric, was killed by a dragon and eaten deep in the dungeon. Due to the laws of the dungeon, if they find her remains soon enough, they will be able to revive her, but before her end, Falin teleported the party to the surface. A few members of their party quit on the spot. They do not have the funds or resources to do that trip again, and without a healer, their party would be in even more danger. Laios, not wanting to waste any time, decides the best course of action is to head back in immediately, and use the resources of the dungeon for food on the way. He is accompanied by Marcille, an elf mage, and Chilchuck, a half-foot trap-finder.

Soon into their journey, they run into Senshi, a dwarf who has lived in this dungeon as long as adventurers have known about it. Senshi is very knowledgeable about how to prepare and cook monsters of the dungeon, and intrigued by Laios and his journey, accompanies the party. Laios grew up obsessed with monsters and knows the ins and outs of their biology, ecology, how to kill them, and what parts are inedible. Combined with Senshi's knowledge on how to cook them, the party (Marcille and Chilchuk begrudgingly) are well equipped to delve deep into the dungeon surviving on nothing but the wildlife of the dungeon.

My Thoughts

Delicious in Dungeon is such an easily likeable story. The artstyle is cute and unique, but at the same time, portrays such intense action and interesting monster designs. The story starts out as a quirky little romp, but very soon it becomes apparent that every detail about the world is meticulously crafted to make it feel real and lived in. Monster Biology is based in real anatomical rules, but Magic is still part of the world too. For example, spirits are a real type of magical creature, and some monsters are adapted to filter feed on them.

The party all have very one-note personalities at the beginning. Senshi is obsessed with healthy habits, Laios is a bit of a dunderhead, Marcille is squeamish, and Chilchuck is selfish. But as the story progresses, you get to know each better and their personalities and ideals evolve as they encounter new challenges.

As I touched on above, the art style is gorgeous. The food looks delicious, the monsters are fun to look at in action, and the character design of each of the main and supporting cast of characters is varied and fun. Without spoiling anything, the story goes in a direction deeper and is more engaging than I thought possible from as simple a pitch as "adventurers eat the monsters in a dungeon", and although at the time of writing the manga is not finished, I am very happy with where the story has gone and am very keen to see where the ending takes us.

If my description has piqued your interest at all, I highly recommend seeking out Delicious in Dungeon. It's a fantastic read. And I just found out while writing this that an anime is being produced by Studio Trigger. So keep an eye out for that too.

Disco Elysium

ZA/UM

Disco Elysium is a role playing game released for PC and all main consoles, I personally played the Final Cut version on Nintendo Switch. Now when someone says Role Playing Game, the first thought is usually a random-encounter, turn-based combat system with parties, health and magic meters. But Disco Elysium is more like the classic table top RPG type, a point and click narrative adventure with dice rolls and branching narratives depending on the player's actions. It was a very engaging experience that I will probably go back and play again for a whole new experience.

The Pitch

Disco Elysium is based in a fictional post-war European-type city called Revachol. You play the role of a very broken man who wakes up after a few days of binge drinking, having forgotten literally everything about who you are and why you are here. A bit of briefing with the hotel staff and discussion with a police officer named Kim Kitsuragi, you find that you are a police officer too, and your precinct sent you to help Lieutenant Kitsuragi solve a murder case.

You interact with the world through walking up to objects, people, and landmarks, and making observations, growing your knowledge base of the world and who you once were. The player character's progression is through assigning points to various skills to build the type of cop you want to be in this story. Split into 4 main categories of skills; Intellect, Psyche, Physique, and Motorics; you start the game by assigning base points to a few different areas that will make it easier to be better at certain skills.

A character with good base Intellect will be better at general knowledge, conceptualisation, and talking smart, while a character with good base Motorics will have good hand-eye coordination, composure, and reaction time. You have the option to start from a few base pre-builds, or customise your stats to your preference. But you can't be good at everything. Are you the type of cop that talks down people in your way or the type to punch them in the jaw? That's up to you. Anytime you attempt a challenging task, be that persuasion, violence, or anything in between, you can attempt a dice roll. And depending on what skills you have points in, you will have better odds in different challenges.

Getting more skill points requires experience, which can be gained by pursuing the main objective, and by solving side-story mysteries. And the world is full of mysteries! There are cults, supernatural hauntings, post-war trauma, Eurobeat ravers, and much more to interact with. You are a broken man in a broken world, and there's nothing stopping you from being the worst kind of human being to get your way. Unless you don't want to upset Kim Kitsuragi.

And Kim is the one light in this dark, sad world.

My Thoughts

Disco Elysium is an experience like no other. The absolute depth of the world is just immense, you could get lost in centuries of in-game lore for hours. Even though the entire game takes place in part of one city, you have the opportunity to familiarise yourself with the entire world, decades of conflict, and the political matrix of powers that has led to such a desolate world.

Just as deep as the world are the characters, particularly the player character, Harry Dubois. You can play the entire game multiple times and not find everything wrong with this poor little meow meow. I neglected to mention this above, but each Skill talks, offering input from their area of specialty. Most dialogue in the game is from the inner thoughts of our cop, and what he can make of the situation. Putting more points into different skills will mean you hear the perspective of that skill more often. In my playthrough, I heard a lot from Encyclopedia, Drama, and Perception, but in a future playthrough, maybe Savor Flaire, Inland Empire, and Electrochemistry might have more to say.

Although the game is full of choice, there is ultimately one ending. I initially thought this as a bad thing, but it makes sense on further thought. This city was boiling towards an explosive conclusion no matter what two policemen do. What we can change however, is if we can save anyone on the way there, and what sort of person you make yourself into by the end. What kind of cop do you want to be?

Thanks for Reading

This recommendation has been a long time coming, as I've had these two series in in the back of my mind for ages. If you have engaged with either, please spread this post and tell me what you've enjoyed from them.

If you enjoy my style of writing, I have made 45 other posts just like this recommending all sorts of media. Check the pinned post on my blog.

[pulim-v]

good point good point on the hunger games one. Just from purely a fighting stand point as well kabru would clear. And he’s popular and prettyyy and so he’d get sponsers. And ily laios but he literally would be trying to eat the poisonous berries. Also he’s good at fighting monsters but he doesn’t know how to take apart a person like kabru can

EXACTLY!!!!!

Laios loses due to not being good vs other people (I didn't catch that honestly it's a great point lol)

Marcille would only make it if she started out in a group, she doesn't have good survival skills (and mana depletion is a death sentence)

Chilchuck is NOT built for the hunger games lmao his ass would die REALLY easily

Senshi has the biggest shot of the Touden Party imo but he still loses due to not being that popular

Scratch that Izutsumi has everything LMAO she can fight and mostly fend for herself and I could see her being popular (though maybe Panem wouldn't like that she's a beastman? Not sure tbh)

Falin I could see winning maybe? Healing magic could be quite useful, and she has shown the capability to fight other people, and she's nice enough to win the audience

Toshiro can't survive on his own (though his combat skills are good)

Namari is imo the second or third most likely winner. Weapons expert + could reasonably survive on her own (she is quite poor and ostracized in-canon so I imagine she's faced a lot of hardships in finding food) + could reasonably have a lot of fans

Mithrun loses automatically for Plot Reasons

Thistle is the President Snow of the scenario (also without his book I'm not sure if he's that good tbh)

Kabru is perfect for this. He's thriving. Fucking frolicking down the hills not even needing to forage or hunt because he has so many sponsorships and is also dominating the cornucopia

[dadsbongos]

So kinda lame summary but here it is. A monster/half-monster/beastkin reader joins the Touden party with no ill intent. They just want to make friends, find a place in society, and live normally. The reader covers their monstrous features so they look human, and only shows them if they trust someone.

The plan was to become friends and maybe reveal that they're a monster/part monster. That option is immediately thrown out when they learn the party mostly eats monsters. So now the reader stays fully covered up out of fear of possibly being eaten. Shocker, they get caught by Laios. He's even more surprised when the first thing the reader says is "please... please don't eat me" while they're on the brink of tears.

I'd like this to have a happy ending cause I love hurt/comfort. The issue is I'm so stuck on how Laios would respond to the reader begging for their life and seeing how scared they are of him. At this point they're kinda friends, maybe Laios has a crush, either way they're on good terms. I doubt that Laios would get mad, but I feel like he'd be hurt that the reader fears he would want to eat them? Part of me is like "he'd be interested in them and want to trust them" and the other part of me is "he would feel betrayed and would want reader to leave."

I hope I'm making sense. This has been rotating in my brain for days and I have no friends who watch this anime.

oooooh i love hurt/comfort especially this brand

so in my head, i can see laios feeling Odd that a monster was traveling with them without revealing themselves. but i don't think he'd exhibit outright anger or betrayal, more so disappointment. since reader can talk, he obviously acknowledges them as sentient like orcs despite the danger they present, so he knows to tread carefully.

he's also not a stone wall, so his affection towards reader is going to make him not want to push them away. he's probably not initially very upbeat about it and just says that they should tell everyone as soon as possible so the party's informed. he's conflicted about the lie, but doesn't want reader to leave.

his next action is probably addressing reader's fears because he is a nice guy at the end of the day. so he's going to explain, in his brash laios way: the party 1. only eats to survive and 2. only eats inhuman monsters without evident cognition past survival

love the synopsis! can't wait to see how it comes along :3 and hopefully *i* make sense bc i feel like i sound nuts

[xanrae]

do dungeon lords dream of satyrs?

laios gives mithrun a friendly and totally welcome tip on how to counter insomnia.

dungeon meshi, crack/comedy, post-canon (as of posting), laios, mithrun, possibly ooc?

https://archiveofourown.org/works/48943753

It would be no stretch of the imagination to say that Laios and Mithrun had, at best, a strained working relationship. They had spent quite some time on opposite ends of the narrative, embodying ‘crazy monster man who would become dungeon lord and plunge the world into an unending hell’ and ‘ruthless elven military leader here to mete out their own brand of justice with impunity’, respectively.

Still, Kabru was a miracle worker, and while he’d utterly failed to reconcile the two during the dark old days, these were the bright new days of the future, where anything was possible, apparently including getting (parts of) Team Laios and (some of) the Canaries on personable terms. It turns out that when you manage to rid the world of a voring demon (Mithrun)/work together to prepare your sister for a giant feast for a celebratory “Congrats for surviving the fall of a dungeon and not getting eaten yourself!” block party (Laios), you (collective) can forgive a lot of things.

The death of the demon hasn’t brought Mithrun’s desires back, and neither has it chased away whatever is causing his insomnia. Now that Kabru is no longer always free to give pre-bedtime footrubs, Mithrun has fallen back on spells and potions to find sleep. He’s holding one of the latter in his hands now, contemplating the flask when a creak announces the opening of his bedroom door. Mithrun’s head snaps up, and only the vague awareness that Cithis would be very unhappy if he told her he’d wasted her potion and needs another one, actually, please and thank you stops him from teleporting it into the shape silhouetted in the doorway. Damn, hadn’t he locked that thing?

“What’s that?” With absolutely no sense of propriety, the shape starts moving into the room before Mithrun can ask it what the hell it wants. A little further into the room and no longer blocking the only source of light, the hazy shadow resolves itself into the horrible, towering shape of one Laios Touden.

The two stare at one another for a long moment. Laios is happily awaiting an answer to his totally normal and totally sane question, and Mithrun wonders if he’s wandered into the wrong room and started preparing for a night in someone else’s bed. Outside of a dungeon, his sense of direction is once again totally fucked. But he glances around, sees his armor folded neatly on the table, his pack sitting in the corner. Yyyyes, definitely his own room. His one good eye flickers back to Laios, who seems to see no problem with continuing to stand at the doorway of the Canary Captain’s room with no explanation.

“Sleeping draught,” Mithrun answers finally.

“What’s it made of?”

The sparkle in Laios’s eyes makes it clear what kind of answer he’s looking for. Mithrun takes no pleasure in squashing the tallman’s hopes and dreams, but he doesn’t exactly feel bad either. “Just herbs.” Then, because he feels it necessary, he adds, “We don’t consume monsters where I come from.” Where  anyone comes from, actually. That seems to have been a uniquely Island Dungeon phenomenon, thanks to Team Laios. And while food is food is food, he also can’t say he’s sorry to never eat a walking mushroom again.

“Oh.” Laios seems to deflate just a little, and Mithrun keeps staring at him, expecting the tallman to leave at any moment now that monsters have been removed from the equation. Instead, Laios moves closer, and Mithrun tenses, grip tightening around the sleeping potion. Needs must, and Cithis would simply have to deal with remaking him the potion, but Laios only raises the tray that had been hitherto unaddressed in his hands.

“Well, we were just having dinner, and we thought that since you really helped with chopping up Falin’s dragon body, you might want something to eat....” He trails off, seeing the expression on Mithrun’s face. “Oh, don’t worry,” Laios continues cheerfully. “We’re not done prepping her yet!”—Mithrun’s face is carefully impassive here, the deliberately unaffected air of someone who doesn’t love the words he’s just heard—“This is just beef.” He sets the tray with a soft clink of cutlery on the table next to Mithrun’s armor. “But if you’re sleeping now, you could always have it tomorrow for breakfast!” Mithrun just nods wordlessly. A collage of a wild-eyed, monster-crazed Laioses—the impression he’d from the other adventurers up til now—flashes through his mind. But the tallman seems vaguely normal now, even if he had casually mentioned his sister in a way that most people would find unpalatable (hah).

“Do you know,” Laios says, totally unprompted, just as Mithrun is believing that he’ll finally leave him to finish taking his potion, “that when I can’t sleep, I count satyrs? Maybe that would help you.”

There’s another long moment as they stare at one another—Laios cheerfully expectant, Mithrun at a total loss for words that, for once, has nothing to do with his piteously atrophied social skills. Satyrs do not figure anywhere in the top million things Mithrun would like to think about prior to bed, especially in multiples. In fact, there is literally not a single thing on god’s green earth that he would hate more to think of in the moments before a reluctantly-inflicted rest than goat-like monsters. Even the most tolerable iteration, where the goat-demon is pulp beneath his bloodied fists, is definitely not conducive in any way shape or form to the peaceful and relaxing repose that is usually the goal of sleep.

Mithrun eventually finds it in himself to say, “Is that so.” His tone is so flat that, had any philosophers or engineers been present, they could have derived a new method of ensuring level construction from those three words alone.

Laios doesn’t notice, though. Content in a friendship overture well executed, he waves Mithrun good night and finally, thankfully, leaves, closing the door with a soft click behind him. In the greatest exercise of will to date in Mithrun’s not-inconsiderable life, he does not knife, strangle, disembowel, replace the brains of, or otherwise maim Laios as he leaves—though perhaps the down in his pillow might have been a superior alternative to whatever was currently occupying the space between the tallman’s ears, Mithrun notes sourly, flopping back onto his bed. He cannot down the sleeping draught fast enough.

He does not count satyrs.

[armchairsoapbox]

I really enjoyed reading this and I think this is absolutely a revealing question — of all the parties, why was the Touden party the one that succeeded? The last couple of paragraphs mention this in particular:

It is striking how different the dungeon is between Laios and the others. They all treat the dungeon as their personal hell to be striven against and conquered, only Laios sees it as an extension of the living world and understands his place in it. And I think that is so fucking cool, it's so multifaceted.

I love that Dungeon Meshi completely undermines the usual hero narrative and its conceits, in favour of this more ecological view, and I think this is it, this is the deeper thing: Laios’ party succeeds because of Laios and Senshi, and how they don’t other the dungeon but take an ecological view of it with themselves as part of rather than separate from the dungeon’s ecosystem.

And a lot of this comes down to Laios trying not to defeat the dungeon, but to understand it. His own monster knowledge was essential to getting them through, and after a while that attitude bleeds into the others. The two hardest skill checks were with the dungeon rabbits, and when Thistle calls all the dragons to kill the party, and both times it’s Laios’ knowledge and foresight that prevent a total party kill and allow them to win out eventually.

Senshi also plays an essential role, not because he shares that ecological lens (though he does) but because that ecological lens has helped him learn how to live off the land, and he keeps the party fed. They rely on his cooking and nutrition more than anything else to keep going, and if not for that they would be living off rations or bad food and end up weak the way they were when they first fought the dragon. That, and his relationship with the orcs, are crucial to the party making it as far as they did.

None of the other parties have anything close to Laios’ understanding of the dungeon and its creatures, or Senshi’s ability to sustain the party and help them endure. Not Kabru or Toshiro. Not the Tansu party.

(I don’t think that Marcille, Chilchuck, or Izutsumi play this role, though they are all very competent in their own right, and eg. Izutsumi was also the only reason why they survived the succubi encounter. That’s okay: they have other roles to play in the story.)

The only other group that comes close are the Canaries, because they’re dungeon experts, and they understand what (and why) a dungeon really is. But even then they are othering the dungeon as being fundamentally different and dangerous, they aren’t interested in it in the same way that Laios and Senshi are. Their job is simply to keep an eye on dungeons and to shut them down before worse happens.

Let’s take it a bit further.

Given the story’s themes of consumption and being consumed, ecosystems, and the idea that eating and desire is the privilege of the living, it makes perfect sense that Laios is the one who defeats the Winged Lion. He hasn’t just internalised this, he actively wants to be part of the ecosystem (hence the “sky burial” request in the bonus material). It’s also this understanding that allows him to realise that the Winged Lion can itself be eaten, or that its desire to eat can itself be eaten, which was the only real way to defeat it. None of the others could have had that insight, since they don’t see themselves as part of the ecosystem, they see the dungeon as fundamentally separate and other.

—

That’s really my main point, but I want to add as well that I suspect Laios could only do this because he’s autistic and traumatised. The man has a special interest in monsters: that’s why he knows as much about them as he does. But more than that, he’s had bad experiences being alienated from other people - this is both the nightmare he initially has when trying to enter Marcille’s nightmare, and his discussion with the Winged Lion about identifying with monsters. It’s this trauma, I think, that prevents him from simply identifying with humanity the way that Kabru does, and that allows him to take the more expansive view that is needed to see and understand the dungeon on its own terms, as an ecosystem to understand and appreciate and to live in harmony with.

I didn't really wanna talk ahead of the Dungeon Meshi anime but I had this thought bugging me as I was skimming the manga. So, spoilers for what's to come.

I don't think it's any coincidence that Laios' party, out of a cast of infinitely more capable people, makes it to the final floor of the Dungeon. Why? Cause they aren't heroes.

Look at Kabru, he's the poster boy for anime protagonists. He has a tragic backstory, a personal beef with the dungeon, skills trained by a master of the crafts, and a large party who seems genuinely friendly together. He has everything going for him to one day dive to the bottom and gain closure for his story but he just can't. He never will, because the dungeon does not work on his logic. It turns out that there is no plot armor against hearing a siren sing for the first time.

What about Mithrun then? Personally wronged by the Demon, he's the paradigm of vengeance. A tragic hero who will do anything it takes to get to his goal and probably die achieving it. He has a party full of dark history and interesting dynamics, really laden with moral greyness. Not Berserk but a step closer to it than Kabru's story. But he is, unfortunately, also a classic hero archetype, and although his skills are impressive they aren't fit for the ecosystem around him, singleminded vengeance will see you killed by changelings, the cold, or starvation.

Shuro, it's gotta be Shuro right? A man from a distant land but a familiar one to the primary readerbase. He goes back to train, hone his mind, collect a party, and save the love interest from a cruel fate. Perhaps he will learn there is no saving her, and tragically be forced to slay the monster she's become. His journey ends the second Faligon dies, so he has no chance, ever, of becoming the Dungeon Lord. There doesn't need to be any extra traps to deter him, he'll get what he wants at the fourth level and be gone, his desire simply isn't pointed that way.

Laios, on the other hand. None of his party are heroes, they're all here for selfish reasons and have absolutely zero illusions about heroics and greater goods. Laios is here to save Falin, he only wants his sister to be safe. And to eat and document monsters. Marcille is here for forbidden magic and Falin, and her two desires coincide with her resurrection. Chilchuck is here because he got paid up front and can't leave without rumors spreading. Senshi was always here and he just wants to live in peace with nature. None of them have heroic intent, broadly. But it also means they don't have heroic conceit either.

Laios' party will eat anything. They'll run from battle, take shortcuts. They treat monsters not as grand challenges to overcome but something to fight for their lives with. With their teeth if need be. There is no honor here there is only living. Honor gets you strangled by treasure bugs. Revenge will see you abandon your party to giant spiders for the mere shot at your target. Duty sees you skipping meals because your goal is so important. It is striking how different the dungeon is between Laios and the others. They all treat the dungeon as their personal hell to be striven against and conquered, only Laios sees it as an extension of the living world and understands his place in it. And I think that is so fucking cool, it's so multifaceted. Like, their exact skill set is perfect for getting through the dungeon because of how they all treat it. But also because the dungeon wants them there, because they have very personal, strong desires. Desires that shape their skills, and desires shaped by their skills in a kind of Ouroboros.

And it's an interesting question of how much of both factors into their progress in the story.

[monstertidbits]

and it's not just shuro... it's how the touden siblings were the only decent people who would accept namari and let her join their party, and even after years together i bet there was a part of namari that wasn't sure if they were just desperate for any help they could find or if they truly respected her as her own person. then she left the party at its worst, and when faced with laios again she was ready to accept his anger at her; i mean, she finally proved to be untrustworthy like everyone else thought she was. but no, she was met with kindness and forgiveness, laios once again affirming why he appreciates her so much, and then putting his trust in her again- because in his eyes, that choice alone doesn't determine who she is as a person, just like how her father's actions don't.

and then you have chilchuck, who has the most experience in the dungeon business than any of them, who went through parties' ugly falling-outs. and you know what, despite his constant criticism of laios he never left his side for three whole years, even though he was contemplating retiring altogether at the time. there are probably many reasons as to why, but at the basis of everything is the fact that after so many fights, nasty betrayals and many people he is better off not seeing again... laios brought something fresh to the table- pure enthusiasm, a kind of innocence he hasn't seen in this field in a long time, if ever. yeah, he may not be the most dependable when it comes to interacting with others, and chilchuck was wary, but he saw in laios what those other oh so charismatic party leaders were lacking. and god let's not start talking about marcille, who truly wouldn't have survived this manga without laios being there to be her lighthouse and reminding her who she is and what she was doing it all for even at the worst of it; or senshi, who laios eventually freed from the horrors of the dungeon that haunted him for so many years; or even izutsumi, who finally found herself a place to belong in laios's party. what i'm trying to say is: yes laios ain't a "virtuous do-gooder" as he says but i don't think he remotely understands just how deeply he impacted others and changed them for the better when he was just being himself. he is more than enough, and he finally found people he belongs with.

like i hate shuro so much but. you ever think about how he admitted to being envious of laios? how he wished he could be as genuine, as sincere as laios is, and connect deeply with the people he truly cares about, like falin? he is envy of the man who is everything he is not; the man who came to this island of his own accord, to chase his own dreams, unlike shuro he was sent by his father basically to figure out what would satisfy his dad enough to make him worthy of being his successor. and there he meets laios, a man who left his home and his parents' expectations of himself behind to go figure out where he could belong. they are on two entirely different paths, and it's not so much their personalities clashing as it's their upbringings and the effects' those had on them. and laios admires shuro so much, and loves listening to his tales of foreign lands; he couldn't fathom what a man like shuro could possibly be jealous of him for. but shuro, despite having the more experience of the two, is the one who is narrow minded, unimpressive in his way of thinking and approach to the challenges he faces. and laios baffles him time and time again, so different than any other man he encountered so far. it makes him so annoyed at times, maybe because he sees in laios what his father sent him off to discover in himself, but he couldn't put his finger on it quite yet. the thing is, when it all came down to putting themselves out there and shuro being truthful, it ended in fondness, not contempt. and laios can't see it himself, but those closest to shuro recognized the change that man evoked in him. and for that, if nothing else, shuro would always be grateful.

[langwrites]

[Image description: a pair of reblogs with tags from @gothiethefairy and @ffs-abalisk.

The first reads, "#dungeon meshi #delicious dungeon #i need to breakdown how kabru's party for the dungeon wasn't the best one #i know they're opposites to laios's party but i need to explain why" while cut off by a See All tag.

The other reads, "#you know... that's a VERY good question lmaooo #delicious in dungeon #dungeon meshi #i think it would be absolutely hilarious if that was the case tho #because I'm pretty sure none of them have rubber soles." end description]

Oh, speaking of more evidence that Kabru's party is not at all prepared for the titular dungeon's exploration:

Mikbell, the group's half-foot...and their presumed picklock? He's the one who picks up a box of Treasure Insects off a zombie and presents them to the party without even slightly checking for traps or curses.

Rin points out explicitly that Marcille's anti-possession spell is almost literally out of a textbook, implying an education on her part as well, but in the ending cards, she's depicted using a Chain Lightning-esque spell to wipe out a whole room of Living Armor monsters while her party has to flee the massive AOE attack. So, she may have done it again.

Kabru's a real slick talker, as a part of his general fascination with people, but he's not trained to fight monsters...basically at all? And he's trying to head down into an area where negotiation skills are not going to matter nearly as much as foraging/woodlore skills, of which Kabru has...limited proficiency. Dude doesn't really take care of himself.

Offhand, I can't remember Kuro, Daya, or Holm's adventuring survival sins right now, but they're probably failing at something along the way since it's called a "total party kill" for a reason.

Luckily for them, the skills required to survive the dungeon and the skills required to succeed in their other ventures in life don't need to have a ton of overlap. Though insisting that they're gonna beat the Toudens to the end goal is, as we learn more about the dungeons and the obstacles inside, comically overconfident.

I don't know if anyone's speculated about this before but...

Does any one else think the second Kabru party wipe might be related to the fact that Rin's primary attack magic is lightning and they were fighting on a lake?

There's basically no proof behind this other than

a) they were on the lake,

b) surrounded by dead fishmen,

and c) there wasn't any blood anywhere in the area, including on the fishmen.

But I do think it'd be funny if the reason they got wiped again was because they're not experienced enough to really take environmental factors into account when fighting. After getting TPK'd by treasure bugs the first time. It's very much that "I didn't ask how big the room was, I said I cast fireball" energy.

[infimace-blog]

I'll give you Canary Wyld Hunt. The similarities there are overwhelmingly obvious. But I think you're overplaying the role of the stars and fate here. Which is a bizarre thing to say about sidereals, but hear me out.

The universe of Dunmeshi is not the universe of Exalted. They have different themes and symbols that can't always be translated directly from one to the other. Exalted is a world of chosen heroes and villains, clashing together with unbelievable skill to determine the fate of all of Creation. Dunmeshi is a world of interconnected systems of survival, where success relies on accepting the roles available to you in the system and living well in them. There's enough shared material that making these comparisons has some merit; there are nobles, sorcerers, magical artifacts and the like. But any comparison between the two has to take the differences into account; if we cling too hard to literalism here, then we have to accept that the Touden party (and indeed, most of the cast) would just be mortals in Exalted who happen to occasionally run into more powerful beings.

So let's strip out some of the trappings a bit. Solars revolve around supreme mastery of a particular skill combined with an unrelenting dedication to one's ideals - this core concept remains true even if we try to apply them to a setting where the sun lacks the symbolism it has in Exalted, where characters are not propelled to glory and conflict in the same way that the exalted often are. Lunars tend to have a deep instinctual drive to survive + an innate connection to the forms of beasts. Abyssals draw their strength from taboo, and ideologies and leaders that embrace that taboo. Dragon-blooded rely on their resources, social status and heritage to compensate for a lack of raw power + elemental affinity. And Sidereals? They're the professionals. They're the ones who treat the matters of heaven like an office job, complete with salary and workplace benefits. They come into your life to accomplish a goal and then disappear without a trace. Their connection to the stars and fate are important, but what are the stars in Dunmeshi? What is fate? If you step away from the literals of the exaltation and look at the narrative roles being played here, Chilchuck is well-suited to be a sidereal PC. Fairly isolated from other people (including his own family), tempering his affection for his friends with the firm belief that this is just a job, playing the role of advisor and tactician rather than taking the lead in most situations. You can argue for dragon-blooded, but is he really the sort of guy who falls back on his status or family name when it comes down to it? Is he really defined by his entanglement in a complicated social structure, in the same way that Toshiro is?

Laois casteless lunar + Kabru eclipse solar, they’re bond mates

but also

Mithrun daybreak abyssal + Kabru eclipse solar, they fuhckin