#worshippers and followers that close off info from outsiders

[angelsaxis]

I think what's important is that the Jedi are a religion--religions come with rules, and I'm not saying that you don't understand that they're a religion, but a lot of the people I've seen saying they're a cult of the most extreme detrimental variety seem to also not understand that it's literally impossible to have a religion or a distinct cultural group without some level of rules and regulations that bind, bond, and yes, sometimes kick out members that don't conform. This is applicable to all groups.

I'm by no means a Jedi defender--ultimately idc in general what people think of the Jedi--but I'm only bugged when people liken being a Jedi to detrimental cult behavior because, again, they have little to no experience with how the average religion works and their only understanding of cult behavior comes from other people likening anything religious with being bad.

I'm not saying YOU said that, just to clarify, but that's the origin of the post itself.

How would you define "excessive" meditation? Black and white thinking I haven't really seen, but also I'm no Jedi expert so I can't say for sure. Maybe some individual Jedi expressed it, but does the Order as a whole think that? In terms of rejected critical thinking, however that's defined--again, was that expressed by like most of the Jedi? Can you give examples?

Most....religions and cultures do not want people to engage in extreme hate and jealousy because those feelings quite literally eat people alive. Advising against letting hatred and jealousy and rage consume your heart doesn't seem like the makings of emotional control to me. I'm also still not sure how often the Jedi say "being angry and greedy makes you a sith lord" versus how much they say "these things, if not addressed properly, will lead to the Dark Side, as exemplified by literally every sith ever". Let's not forget that the Jedi are dealing with a massive power (the Force) that, combined with things like uncontrolled rage and greed, would arguably lead to ten times more destruction than the average person could do. With great power comes great responsibility and all that.

"(the only family and work they have ever known or had after the jedi stole them from their cradles and then forced them to only learn the way of the jedi so that they have little worldly experience or skills in navigating it and also have no family ties or friends outside to rely on)"

Jedi initiates aren't kidnapped, the Jedi ask the parents' permission and the parent gives them up, whihc we can see is different from the sith who literally kidnapped children in that one episode of TCW, and then the Bardottans in that other episode who do not like the Jedi--and the fact that the Jedi got the message and avoided that planet.

The use of "force" here is interesting because it's like saying kids from any religion are "forced" to only learn about that religion. Like....the point of being a Jedi teacher is to teach the next generation of children the ways of the Jedi? The Jedi clearly have other subcultures within their ranks; Barriss has a statue of a goddess in her room. Everyone's got the different cultural markings from their respective species. People have accents and are multilingual. They don't only know the ways of the Jedi, most of them have a decent amount of worldly experience and the vast majority of Jedi do have other skills, because we see how good Anakin, Obiwan, and Ahsoka are with ships, and we know that there's Jedi healers, and we know that there's the agricorp and other parts of the Jedi order specifically designed for people with different skills sets. There's teachers, trainers, whoever is taking care of the initiates that they did not kidnap--and I'm sure there's chefs and dancers and artists.

The Jedi make friends outside the Order--Obiwan is friends with the guy that runs the diner. We see Jedi with connections all over the place. And Jedi, from what we've seen, leave more than they're kicked out. Ahsoka was kicked out because she was accused of literal terrorism. Otherwise, afterwards she left on her own. Anakin clearly kept dancing with the dark side and wasn't even kicked out for that.

That line about Christianity (at least to me) is hardly even relevant because the Jedi are heavily based on Islam and Buddhism, not Christianity, which I guess is the source of my irritation with people claiming that they're a cult--it's literally, for hte most part, how some real-world religions operate. Move away from extreme emotions because they'll eat you alive and you'll do bad things. Pray a lot. Raise children in the same religion as you.

And regarding your weirdass tags:

#also the jedi arent real you dont have to protect them#obiwan isnt gonna fuck u for saying the jedi order isnt cultish#but i WILL tell u that sadly: it is#also i shd say im not like mad or anything i just think discussions of cults and how to identify them is interesting

I know they're not real, I'm not a ~Jedi defender~ and I'm literally a fucking lesbian what's the matter with you?

There's a disturbing number of y'all who think the Jedi are a cult because they don't embrace wanton exploration of the dark side

[kaiju-z]

Seon Adventures, Episode 37: The Client

When last we left off, Akar’Niel showed himself before the adventuring party, the Cultbusters for the 2nd time in two weeks time, after their group finished the most important part of their dungeon delving quest within the Tomb of the Fallen King.

With his re-introducing words of “Did you miss me?”, Akar’Niel takes the stage.

And there he was, leaning on a pillar.

Face to face again, this time before rest would overtake them, Akar’Niel makes himself known to the party. The Half-Elven man is met with a mix of intrigue from Jun and Luck, distaste from Mournimar and Belli and a careful study by Malak.

Morgan surely would be by his partner’s side due to the surprise appearance, while Arryn? Arryn was taking a well needed rest, oblivious to the conversation that was transpiring.

With the semi-hostile atmosphere coming from the party, Akar’Niel reveals to the lot of them that he is the client, who requested the fetching of Ena, currently in Luck’s possession.

From the initial interrogation, it’s hard to tell much about his intentions with the blade, aside from keeping it gathering dust in the tomb, or a museum to just be gawked at. However - Belli and Mournimar gather that he’s asking intently about the sword, but based on his physique, there’s a reason he’s not trying to wrestle it off. And Jun? 

Jun knows he lied and knows who River is. There’s an eyebrow twitch, when Luck asked why it mattered to him. He’s very emotionally invested in this artifact.

Furthemore, he tells the party he is of the Circle of Shaksban, the exclusionary spellcaster guild in Crystalgate. To try and gain the party’s trust, Akar’Niel offers himself to be placed under a Zone of Truth spell and willfully fail his save.

Belli casts said spell and a question and answer series begins, wherein he re-affirms he is who he is and what his intentions for the sword are. To hand it to the Darksbane Army for use, specifically, as they are considered by many, in different tones, as “the noble sort”.

During the talk, while Belli slips up and mentions that there’s only one human in their party, despite Luck wearing his disguise, Jun takes note of something about Akar’Niel.  She can see his eyes have a bit of a yellow flicker that moves like a vine in the wind. Furthemore, There’s almost like a faint breeze going through his hair, despite there being no wind?

The conversation carries on for about as long as the Zone of Truth permits, with an air of tension being raised from a half-suspicious and half-amicable side of the party. And Ena herself speaks to Luck, when he asks her what her take is on this arrangement.

Ena finds the party’s client a smug man, but is indifferent in who wields her, as long as blood can be shed. A bit unnerving, if honest answer from the weapon of a late king.

A deal ends up being struck, where the party agree to return Ena themselves, rather than hand it over at this moment to Akar’Niel. And that whenst he checks on the group the sound of wind chimes will follow.

With his departure, the six go to sleep, taking a long rest.

And in the morning? Luctan brings out the Dragon Skull for Malak to question. After debating what the questions should be...

Malak casts Speak With Dead. And for flavor and more amicable conversing, he asks in Draconic:

- 1. ”What were the names of you and the other dragon that attacked?”- “I’m Izyr. Lord of the Sands. My companion is Zamberrut , the Barbarian.”

- 2.“What destroyed the dwarves and dragonborn?” – “A magic not even I know.”

- 3. “Do you know who cast it?” – “The wizards. The magic users, who enforced my brother and I.”

- 4. “Do you know any of their names or locations?””I don’t know their names. They gave us fake ones.”

- 5. “What were the names they gave you?” – “We met with a man, who called himself Nehren and a woman, who called herself Seriza.”

Curious.

Very curious. And requiring further questioning.

Malak would ask again, after sharing his findings with the party.

- 1. “What did they use to compel you and the other dragon?” – “The same thing it always is. A fuck ton of cash.” They were bribed!

- 2. “What did the people that compelled you look like?” – “Well, the tiny one had a weird face, gray hair. Very old. And the woman, a heavier set woman. Human?!”

- 3. “Where did you first meet them? At the mountains, a little bit north of here. Right near the border.”

- 4. “Were they wearing any identifying marks? Jewelry, anything. Special cloaks.”- “No? I don’t think they did. This was like five years ago, man. One of them had this three headed dragon guy, which I found weird.”

- 5. “Did he have 3 heads or a symbol with 3 heads?”- “A symbol.”

Interesting info. They were hired. But it wasn’t clear if it was the work of the council. But one of them was a Fornas worshippers, the little graying man. A 3 headed Dragon symbol meant just that.

Why though? Why would a Fornas worshiper do this sort of cruelty?!

The party once again agree to proceed to Guan.

And so begin the days of travel once again.

On the first day, they go north and come across what one can tell are the remains of a town, just based on the slight shapes. There are visible peaks of what was once the town of Hertis. The travelers could hear faint whistling as they’d pass through. A jaunty little tune.

How jaunty? Jaunty enough that it slaps!

Following around a corner of the remains of a building, the group finds themselves in front of a lone tent. A campsite. This here seems to be a homemade farm with tomato plants in buckets. And the whistling is coming from inside the tent.

As though we are heard, the tune carries on with it’s performer stepping out to see their guests. And it is a female Kenku, 3ft tall and carrying firewood in her arms.

Most of them hadn’t seen one since the tournament, from the team of rogues, but as she speaks in a variety of intriguing voices, Luck and Belli remember hearing of this particularity of the Kenku before. They were cursed to not speak in their own voices, so they learned to mimic others’.

“Well hi!” Zooter would say in one voice. (which we later learned OOC was of the gril from session 3 or 4, who flirted with Belli).

From what the group can gather, Zooter, as she introduces herself, is a lil’ survivor, making a life out here for themselves.

The Cultbusters and the lone citizen, Zooter exchange pleasantries and foods. With the party giving her dried meats for a potato, much to her delight. To a point where she even states that if they ever need a safe spot to rest the night, she will offer them one.

(Seriously, Zooter has such a cool mix of voices. Scorpion among them.)

Surprisingly, from the corner of their eyes, Luck, Belli and Mournimar can see the inside of the tent. What the surprising thing is the small shrine to Ebriosus, which eventually also comes to Jun’s knowledge.

And she reaches into her wares, pulling out tens of platinum coins, which she hands Zooter and the two bond over their connection through Her.

Excited, Mournimar buys of the plant that would grow into the intoxicant “Steam Root” and through some big brain thinking, decides to plant it in the pot Malak bought for him.

(And many weed jokes were had.)

“You know? I loved you from the moment I saw you.” Zooter would say to Jun in another familiar voice, which she herself would specifically and only her recognize.

Later down the line, the group would carry on with their journey, parting ways with Zooter, the friendship made that day cherished forever.

And some good progress is made in travel.

On day 2, nothing really happens. If there’s any nasty shit in the desert, they see and avoid it. But that night, as they settle down, take their usual watches and the like, Jun has a dream to herself.

Day 3. That evening comes to a close and on the next day it’s very open dunes. They travel on more rocky/mountainous terrain. Very hilly. (And they are alive with the sound of music). Their awareness of our surroundings is good enough to where we’re safe. They sleep and nothing happens.

Day 4, the sand is less and the rock is more. Still wasteland, still no water They come across small streams at least once a day.

On the evening of the 5th day, Malak has a specific dream as well.

On day 6... They climb to the top of a little canyon that’s going on. Because they’re higher up, there’s no risk of danger. They get a feeling that for the next few days they’ll be pretty safe.

The 7th day comes and goes and on the 8th, Luctan has a dream. A promissing dream.

Then comes  Day 8.  Smooth as fuck.

Day 9.  They march and march on through and Arryn informs his travelmates that at this point today? They’ve been in Guan for a few days. He didn’t want to mention anything, ‘cause he didn’t want to jynx the group when they passed the border on day 6.

On day 9  the travelers come across to a barely a settlement. A few tents. Some lizard folk, the occasional kobold too. No farms, but there are caravans. We can tell they’ve been there for a while. On the outside, there is one Lizardfolk, more beefy than the rest.  And he is digging a hole. Diggy-diggy-hole.

He welcomes the party and proclaims that they are coming through in a good weather season. “Isn’t it lovely?“ Sand storms and humidity. Yep.  It’s been wild.

He introduces himself as  Eknam, the town burrier. So essentially, he is the undertaker of this settlement. Low on town people, but he’s optimistic that things are turning around. One of their ladies is swollen. So, it might be a big clutch!

They lost their town location, but what’s left of them, they’re called the Gromlets.  Eknam’s idea was Bog Creatures, but they have no bog.

They’re trying to find a place that’ll support them and the water supply isn’t tainted?! Aside from the side effects, there’s the whole limbs dropping off if you drink water 2 years in a row?!  Due to their resistances, it takes longer for the Lizardfolk to be affected, but for others? Much-much quicker.

Malak offers help and eventually clears the water for several days with Purify Food and Drink, while speaking to the settlers in draconic: “Hello, I’m the water technician. I’m here to clean your pipes.”

Greatful, Eknam welcomes the lot of them to Guan.

Eknam notes, upon us mentioning where they’re headed, that they’re going in the right direction of the capitol. Only have to go east and if they don’t get to it, they’d go north.

After some more directions, regarding going through the canyons, Eknam mentions that if the party bring them anything interesting they’d enjoy, they’d welcome the Cultbusters into the family.

While the directions are given,  Jun shifts into a lizard folk and searches for the pregnant lady, whom she finds in an open tent, resting comfortably, big and next to an egg that had recently been laid by her.  Bless her.

Jun congratulates her, before going off to search for the strongest camp person. Who would be Eknam in this case. The expecting mom’s a bit confused about the congratulations, but is grateful.

It is then that Jun talks with Eknam.

She asks him to keep her safe and sound from any harm. Eknam would ease her concern for what could be by stating how she is their highest priority. Always watched. Noting how every settler in the area kept a close eye on her tent.

“She is always our priority.”

Before the party leave, they give them some stuff to help them along with the developement of their settlement. Clothes and the like.

With goodbyes being made, the party would carry on to the next leg of the journey.

Previous Episode / Next Episode

[malachitelibrary]

How to Work With Goetics Without Getting Your Ass Kicked (Maybe)

As the title implies, this is an article on how to work with goetics without getting your ass kicked (maybe). This is no guarantee and there is obviously a lot of UPG here, but I tried to include viewpoints outside of my UPG as well to get the most rounded view and take others’ considerations into mind.

While the word Goetics does in fact refer to was in fact a word that referred to spirits in general in Greece, it has also evolved to refer to the spirits of the Ars Goetia. While some spirits in the Ars Goetia are truly spirits that were appropriated from other cultures and thus do not necessarily fall under the term "Goetic demons", some of them actually are demons and fallen angels. (Did you know? The meaning of a term can change over time and words can have multiple definitions...wow!!)

Okay so. First, you should understand the different “versions/interpretations” of the Goetics I have heard of:

Vesrion 1. Manifestations of the Mind

Version 2. Manifestations of the Higher Will/of Free Will

Version 3. A mix of actual demons in Hell, Fallen angels that reside in Hell, and maybe some bastardized deities.

Version 4: A mix of actual demons/fallen angels in Hell that are actually misunderstood Benevolent Beings(™)

Version 5. Spirits that aren’t actually in Hell, that Everyone Ever(™) has gotten everything wrong about and are just Misunderstood(™). Some see them as truly benevolent beings who have been bastardized/Misunderstood(™)

Now, understand the catch/how people work with each version:

Version 1. You are just talking to projections of your consciousness, and through talking to the projections of your consciousness, you get things done/accomplished. One cannot hurt you/it is only you hurting yourself. I cannot elaborate in detail as I do not work with the perception of Version 1.

Version 2: As manifestations of the free will, they are sentient and capable of making their own decisions. This is why they have to be coerced into action with the workings in the Lesser Key of Solomon/Ars Goetia. Version 2 is capable of hurting you. I cannot elaborate in detail as I do not work with the perception of Version 2.

Version 3: The version most people work with, including me. These are actual, sentient, Princes/Prelates/What have you in Hell, who run their own governments, own land/power/wealth/ARMIES,etc. Most people who work with this version have found the Goetics to be extremely corrupt, inhumane, etc. Wars are for fun and games, enslavement is totally cool, etc. More info here. Most people who have had past lives under Goetics can confirm the absolute corruption/epitome of lawful evil that is Goetic hell.

These ones are “cool until you piss them off”. Which, for most, is VERY easy as any sort of slight is taken as a Serious Personal Offense(™). Upon being pissed off, the lightest case scenario is that they just stop working with you, refuse to answer any calls, maybe send you a few scary nightmares. The WORST case scenario is that they will hound you for a long period of time, even years, filling you with parasites, regular psychic attacks (including sexual ones), attacking/possibly killing your spirit guides/guardians/companions. For those with problems, I have heard many more cases/attempted cases of the latter than the former. If I didn’t imply it enough, Version 3 is very very capable of hurting you.

Version 4: Same as Version 3 except they are interpreted as Misunderstood Beings who are Actually Benevolent(™). Most Demonolaters (goetic demon worshippers) fall under this belief. However, to my knowledge, most demonolaters say all demons are actually benevolent and leave it at that. No investigation, no trying to learn more about Hell/areas in Hell besides what their demonolatry books tell them. Version 4 will not hurt you because they are benevolent, or they will only hurt you in ways that will teach you lessons. I cannot elaborate in detail as I do not work with the perception of Version 4.

Version 5: Self-Explanatory. I do not work with this version, however I have heard of a few people who believe in it.  I cannot elaborate in detail as I do not work with the perception of Version 5.  

Soooo those are the different routes you could take. Obviously which route you take will change your safety measures, however, these are things I THINK give you the most likely way of staying safe (Note again that these are written mainly from the perception of Version 3):

1. HAVE A BACKUP PLAN: If things go sour, no matter which Version you are dealing with, you want to have backup plans. Have your protective spirits/deities/guardians/guides at the ready. Have the sigils and greater curse/constraining paragraphs in the Lesser Key of Solomon handy and possibly sigils from the Greater Key as well. Goetics trend on the far stronger side of spirits, but most are not stronger than popular deities. If you’re not fearful of the Abrahamic God, be ready to call on angels; many have dealt with Goetics before and are perfectly capable of solving Goetic issues almost instantaneously. Also have contacts capable of healing.

2. Keep your not combat/protection magic savvy spirit companions/guides/what have you out of sight. Do not let the Goetic meet your non-combat savvy companions, do not tell the Goetic about  those companions. If things go sour, Goetics CAN and WILL target your non-combat capable companions. Calling on Abrahamic Angels may not help here as praying for the protection of someone else can cause issues with Free Will, in their view. Other deities are not as strict about this, but may still have difficulty as they don’t have a “foothold” in your companions’ lives if they are not worshipped/worked with by them.

3. Don’t question them: Fake Goetic or Real Goetic(™), either way, most don’t like being questioned. They don’t want you to know who they are, they don’t want to tell you their responsibilities in Hell, those that are fallen angels don’t want to tell you how they fell. Don’t ask them anything personal or related to their responsibilities at all. This is how a large portion of problems with Goetics start.

4. Don’t get emotionally close to them: Most stories I hear of people having troubles with Goetics are those that became super close and emotional with them. In these scenarios, the Goetic is fine until it realizes that it can do almost whatever it wants because you love it so much. Then, it starts getting very possessive, manipulative, and demanding. I recommend keeping an emotional distance and maintaining a professional level only. However, like stated above, Demonolaters disagree. So it’s really up to you/your views.

How to deal if/when things go to shit:

Fight. Do not back down. Do not give up. That is what any malicious entity, not just Goetics, hopes you will do instead of fighting. It WILL blow over eventually; but it is up to you to see that through.

Banish immediately and thoroughly. Banish and remove any and all energetic ties they may have. Take down their altar, cleanse/throw away things they may have enchanted for you, dispose of any and all offerings. Remove or cleanse anything and everything that was related to them before. This removes possible links they may use to get back at you in the future.

The Lesser Key of Solomon: While much the book is bastardized Hebrew and I do not support appropriation, the protection rituals and sigils in this book have been used successfully by many people (theory: the words still hold power even if not entirely in context, but that’s besides the point). Get the seals, sigils, and paragraphs of curses/punishment for disobedient Goetics and use them. Note however that you will be calling on the Abrahamic God/Angels for this, so you must not be skeevy of them either.

Abrahamic Angels: They deal with Goetics on the regular. Any of the Archangels, Archangel Michael in particular, cannot be defeated by the Goetics. In my UPG, so long as you are not disrespectful of or enemies with the Abrahamic God, they are willing to assist so long as you are at least thankful towards their God.

Deities: While many Goetics are worshipped, they still do not come close to the level of power that many of the established popular mythological deities (such as Jupiter, Set, etc) have. Demonolaters may disagree, but I am going off of the energy work theory that the longer a deity is worshipped and the larger their follower base, the more powerful they are. Many of these mythological deities have been worshipped for THOUSANDS of years, while the Goetics have only gotten to be worshipped fairly recently. Thus, the established deities have millennia of energy feeds and worshipped while Goetics have maybe a century or two at the most (from humans at least).

Have contacts who are capable of healing: Many Goetics are capable of placing parasites and damaging your energy/astral bodies in very, very tricky ways. Have some healing spirits or humans friends capable of healing at the ready.

Make a scene: NOTE that reactions to this will VARY. The Goetics that are more appearance-conscious to their followers will cease immediately at the threat/execution of this. However, for those less appearance-conscious, this may result in MORE harassment from that Goetic. So be wise when pondering this option.

Entities capable of manipulating fate/signs/symbols: Most deities fall under this, however you may want specialized help such as the Greek Fates or Fortuna, for example. Whether you will need this or not will vary based on how much impact you think simple symbols/signs have; some see them as more energetic links the Goetics may use to get back at you, some see them as trickery so that you will believe that, and thus unintentionally let them get back at you through that belief. 

Jelly, what’s your final OPINION on working with Goetics? (NOTICE THAT OPINION IS BOLDED AND ITALICIZED.) 

In my opinion, working with Goetics is absolutely not worth the trouble. You can accomplish things for much cheaper and much more safely by working with spirits who already have a great deal of information out there, and have a reputation for not smacking down every one of their followers. I know many, MANY more people who have had troubles with Goetics, and they heavily outnumber the people who have had good relationships with them.

I wanted to put this article out there because I know many people will not heed my warnings of the dangers of Goetics and will proceed anyway. And of course I cannot stop them, but at least I can put the information out there so they will be a little bit safer. 

I have heard of people having good experiences, and yes the possibility of Fake Goetics/Impostors is very likely, especially when there is only a paragraph of Official information, and that same paragraph gets re-written over and over without any new additions. However, when many of them (impostors or not) retaliate against having more information written about them, something most spirits encourage and want, ESPECIALLY those wanting worship...I find that suspicious. And highly telling.

Resources on Goetics:

My resources on Goetics:

When I used to believe that Goetics were just uwu misunderstood spirits 

Spirit Interview with Duke Crocell

Spirit Interview with Prince /President Gaap

About Goetic Hell and Hellborns

“I thought most spirits didn’t like information?”

“What Goetics do you recommend avoiding?”

Decarabia Info Compilation

Prince Gaap Info Compilation

Duke Amduscias Info Compilation 

Others’ Resources on Goetics:

Note that I do not agree with all of the resources I provide below, as they are not my information nor my opinion. And of course as they are not mine, I do not claim credit for them. If you have a question concerning these resources, ask the original poster and not me.

General books:

The Lesser Key of Solomon

The Greater Key of Solomon

The Grimorium Verum

Pseudomonarchia Daemonum by Johann Weyer

The Book of Solomon’s Magic by Poke Runyon

The Grand Grimoire by Alibek

Malleus Maleficarum by Heinrich Kramer

Luciferian Goetia by Michael Ford

Book of the Black Serpent by Michael Ford

Dictionnaire Infernal

Other tumblr blogs:

www.littledoomwitch.tumblr.com/demon

http://carpetenebras.tumblr.com/,

Concerning Demonolatry:

http://demonolatry.org/

Daemonolatry Goetia by S. Connolly

Modern Demonolatry by S. Connolly

Demonic Hierarchies by S. Connolly