#wonka will defs be interesting to see

[pynkhues]

I recently read an article in which Quentin Tarantino stated that fewer movie stars exist as a result of "Marvel movies in Hollywood." I think Jennifer Aniston made a similar argument before saying that there are no longer any movie stars. I'm not sure what that means. I can think of a lot of movie stars right now, such as Zendaya, Timothee Chalamet, and Zoey Deutch etc. what do you think? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and Quentin's comments.

QuillBot's

Months ago, when you sent me this ask, anon, I wrote out a really long reply and as soon as I hit post, my laptop crashed and ate the answer, and I was so annoyed at myself for not saving my reply, that I couldn't bring myself to try and re-write an answer. I'm really sorry for that, especially because I think this is such an interesting ask (or well, two asks, because I think the death of the movie star and the impact Marvel's had on the broader concept of a movie star, are kinda two different things).

I've been thinking about it a bit again recently though, particularly as the Oscar race gears up, and Jacob Elordi and Charles Melton''s respective stars are rising in an industry currently desperate to find the new young Hollywood male 'talent', and I've been thinking about it again because honestly?

I agree with Jennifer Aniston, I think the movie star is dead.

We are a long, long way from Golden Age Hollywood where actors like Cary Grant and Marilyn Monroe could captivate a public imagination in a way that translated to big box office effect, after all. Hell, we're even out of New Hollywood, an era dominated by names like Al Pacino, Jack Nicholson, and Jane Fonda, and the Blockbuster era with Tom Cruise, Sylvester Stallone and Harrison Ford.

My original reply went into a lot of the different reasoning as to why this is (like with many things, I don't think there's any one reason for it), in particular how the advent of streaming has changed our relationship with films and TV shows, how the saturation of the market has diluted the staying power of celebrities, how social media and the perceived accessibility of celebrities removes personal mystique which in turn removes intrigue and increases a sense of entitlement, and the fact that so many people having stopped going to the cinema means that the experiential element of seeing a film in a setting larger than life has been diminished.

I think call out culture plays a role too, with any actor on the rise being torn down by tweets they made eight, nine or ten years ago impacting how their star rises, I think the dismantling of the studio system (which is a good thing!) also harmed actors in the long run as studios stopped investing the same resources into making and training stars (they used to be able to sing, dance and act! Now some can barely even act!), and I think, of course, the rise of prestige TV changed the industry substantially (after all, movie stars were movie stars - they traditionally did not, and would not, do TV, which created a clear class structure in terms of screen-based storytelling).

And yeah, I think the language shift from film and TV to content has done irrepairable damage to the artistry of filmmaking and the consideration of a movie star as an actor at the top of their field instead of an actor with the most Insta followers or YouTube subscribers (after all, if everything's content, isn't it the same thing? [no lol]).

Which I guess is kind of where Quentin Tarantino's argument comes in, right? What he's saying is that Marvel's made it so that the IP - the content itself - is the star, not the actor, and I'd say he's probably right with that.

Think of it this way - back in the New Hollywood/Blockbuster era, Harrison Ford was the movie star - he was leading new franchises left-right-and-centre between Star Wars and Indiana Jones, sci fi epics like Blade Runner, leading action thrillers like Patriot Games, The Fugitive and Clear and Present Danger and getting nominated for Oscars for Witness.

He was a movie star in every sense of the word because you could hinge a film - one with a new concept, not just remakes or sequels - on him and be virtually guaranteed a success. He was what sold the tickets, the director just hopefully had to make something good enough people would leave the cinema glad they saw.

Tarantino's argument is the Marvel model - - hell, even the new Star Wars properties, turned the franchise into the star, for better or worse, which means original films can't compete because nobody knows the IP. Back when Harrison Ford was at the top of his game, his name was what helped original films including smaller, standalone works like Witness find an audience, but the studios have changed that. Capitalism has changed that.

Properties with existing audiences and deep pockets for merch were prioritised, only now those franchises are faltering and you've got a generation trained that 'cinematic events' are reserved for blockbusters in established universes, instead of taking a risk on a new film because you know you love an actor who's in it.

Do I think we could go back?

Maybe, but probably not.

I think the place we are now in the history of cinema / TV / 'content' means you can't make a movie star anymore because I think the industry is simply so different that no actor can break through in the same way that even Leonardo DiCaprio could 30 years ago. That industry doesn't exist anymore, actors aren't guaranteed draws (Bones and All proved that for Timothee Chalamet, and Wonka I think could go a similar way), or they have to heavily rely on other industries to become household names which I think dilutes them as a pure 'movie star' (Zendaya's a great example of this - I like her a lot, but how many movies has she even been in? They built her career up in peripheral industries long before they tried to sell her as a movie star, and frankly, I'd question her even as a leading actress yet given she's typically only either been in ensemble casts or clear supporting).

It's a whole new world, and yeah, I think the movie star is dead.

[destinyc1020]

No offense to Dennis but non except Zendaya have shown they can bring people to theaters. Acting wise yes but box office no.Florence last film grossed 2.4 million DWD barely broke even. Bones and All didn’t even cover its budget. Actually Elvis did well we can give it to Austin but Tom hanks is a huge draw

Anon, I'm pretty sure Denis was primarily referring to his upcoming film "Dune: Part 2", and the 4 actors who are pretty hot right now. 🤷🏾‍♀️ I think many will go see the film simply because of them. I also think Denis was saying that they all have a great future career ahead of them, and I definitely agree! 😊

Y'all know I don't like to get into fandom wars on here. I think all 4 of them are great! 😁👍🏾

But by your logic, if we're really splitting hairs, Zendaya hasn't really LED a major motion picture film on the big screen yet, so one could argue that ppl are flocking to theaters because of Tom, Marvel, MCU, and the all-star cast of Dune. 🤷🏾‍♀️ 👀

But there's no doubt in my mind that Zendaya is def going to be a box office draw when she leads her first film. 👍🏾

Interesting that you mention Timothée and "Bones and All", which is an indie film, and one about canabalism (at that), but imo "Wonka" would be a far better comparison when it comes out, to see if Timmy can lead a film with a high box office. 🤷🏾‍♀️

With Elvis, I think people would have originally flocked to the theaters regardless, since Elvis had (and still has) such a huge fanbase. But you're right, it wouldn't have made as much as it did box office-wise had Austin's performance not been so GOOD. 👍🏾 So I agree with you there. That film had repeat viewings too, so I'm sure if it had sucked ppl wouldn't have been watching it over and over again. While Tom Hanks was I'm sure an initial draw, believe me, that movie wasn't getting repeat viewings due to Tom Hanks lol, no offense 😆

With Florence, I too have mainly seen her in supporting roles, but to me DWD didn't do that well due to all of the negative press surrounding it and all of the drama with the cast members. 🥴

But that's not to say that Florence won't be a box office draw in the future. 🤷🏾‍♀️

Overall, I think Denis gave a very nice compliment to all 4 of them, and after working with all of them, I'm sure he saw smthg special in each of them, otherwise he wouldn't have given the compliment. 😌

They definitely have the potential to become Hollywood's next GOATs of the future (imo) if they play their cards right. 👍🏾 We're literally watching their careers skyrocket right in front of our eyes! 😊

I don't see the need to try to put down others in order to lift up Zendaya. She's already great! Lol 😅

[haobinist]

Ok. Wow. Boys Planet. ZB1. Many thoughts.

Very happy for our 9 shiny boys! Unfortunately there was no 12 member lineup twist, I knew it wouldn’t happen but part of me thought just maybe it could lol.

Before I discuss the lineup I just wanna say it was so nice to see all the eliminated trainees. WOONGKI BOY!! Haruto!! Seunghwan (and the banner of his own face that he brought lol)!! ollie wonka with two functioning arms!! Wang Zihao!!WUMUTI TI TI TI!! The NINE.i boys!! Chen Kuan Rui, esp his reaction to Hao’s ranking!! And everyone else as well. Boys planet truly would not have been the same magical experience without all of them, even if they weren’t performing on the final stage.

Im so sad for Keita, Jay and Park Hanbin especially. I really hope they get scooped up by wealthy, well connected companies and continue on having successful careers in the kpop industry. I’d def be there to support them! pH-1 is already joking abt working with Keita on Instagram and even tho that’s obviously not a concrete promise of anything I’d love to see something happen between Keita and H1ghr Music lol.

I’m gonna go thru member by member now, in an attempt to organize my thoughts.

1. Zhang Hao

Holy shit !? Hao P1 !? Absolute slayage. I was so surprised. Tbh, this week I was stressing about how his rank might drop because of losing filler votes, but here he is ranked #1 :D congrats to him for making history as the first foreign center in produce/planet history!

2. Sung Hanbin <3

Mother is debuting!!! Not in P1, which was a twist, but still with a very high rank. This man has a really bright future ahead of him and I’m so happy that I get to support him along the way!

3. Seok Matthew

I was genuinely concerned as to whether or not he would debut, Matthew p03 had me gagged fr I was so happy for him. He’s such a ray of sunshine and has great chemistry with literally everyone he interacts with.

4. Ricky

The SCREAM that was SCRUMPT. Would not be surprised if my neighbors had called 911 honestly. So happy for him!! Honestly, it’s between him and Zhang Hao for my bias in the group. Ricky has grown on me immensely since I started watching the show, also I think he has the best fan edits in the whole fandom like not even just ZB1, of Boys Planet contestants in general. For some reason I feel like the group name really suits him? Like if u showed me a picture of Ricky and said “he’s in a group called ZB1” that would make sense.

5. Gunwook

yet ANOTHER pleasant surprise! I obviously knew he was in the conversation but I was expecting him to be up for like 8th or 9th, esp after he dropped in the 3rd ranking. He started the show with such a tough guy image, but he’s really such a softie and I love it.

6. Kim Taerae

Main vocal slay :) can’t wait to hear more of his high notes and see his big smile onstage. Also I feel like the new dark hair really brings an edge to his image that we haven’t seen before. He might be a reverse Gunwook, seeming very soft and cute at first but actually being tougher than anticipated lol. I was nervous for him after seeing he was 11th in the interim, but clearly the voters pulled thru.

7. Kim Gyuvin

I have not been the biggest Gyuvin fan in the past, but I gotta say he’s really growing on me. He’s like a big goofy puppy dog that can dance really well. His reactions to seeing the other trainees winning (especially Yujin) were so endearing! The other day I watched his en garde fancam on loop aksjfgh he does have a very interesting captivating energy and I appreciate that.

8. Kim Jiwoong

Our hyung <3 so happy for him, he’s been through so much with his previous debut but now he’s finally done it. It’s also nice to see someone who is so clearly openly supportive of the queer community in the final lineup. Not to say that the other trainees aren’t ofc, I think they r all allies (if not queer themselves), but like, jiwoong acting in BL and being friends with Holland, the literal only out k-pop idol, is a different kind of support that I’m happy to see. Most idols tiptoe a bit more, but jiwoong actually does things that r clearly in support of us yknow.

9. Han Yujin

Our maknae :) seeing him drop so much was really surprising, for a moment I thought he wouldn’t make it tbh. I’m fairly neutral on him, I think he’s an amazing dancer and has so much potential, but if I’m being honest he wasn’t necessarily one of my picks. I’m not mad that he’s here by any means tho. I know ZB1 hasn’t even debuted yet so it’s kinda silly to be theorizing about what he’ll do after, but hes young, talented and popular enough that I think once they reach the end of the 2.5 year contract he’s gonna redebut and reach success all over again.

So, that’s it! Boys Planet is over! The lineup is announced! Zhang Hao, Sung Hanbin, Seok Matthew, Ricky, Gunwook, Taerae, Gyuvin, Jiwoong and Taerae. Our Bep1er- now officially known as ZEROBASEONE :D it feels so surreal, but I’m so excited to stan these boys.

[chappell-roans]

I saw a tweet trying to claim Timothee isn’t the closest thing we have to a big movie star but I disagree. I think Wonka and Dune opened the doors for him to be a huge box office draw which is what was lacking for him before. He already has a versatile filmography with big directors and has builded solid relationships with them. He had Scorsese directing one of his fashion campaigns. And he has people like Leo DiCaprio and Tom Cruise giving him career advice. I think his career will only get better once he turns 30. Anya Taylor Joy is for sure rising as a big movie star and she has done quiet a few good things as well before. I think Furiosa is what will give her the big box office numbers as a leading lady. Florence Pugh is a critical acclaim darling and she has crafted a name for herself - she just isn’t a box office draw actress yet. I think Austin Butler is building himself out there… he is making his way with interesting choices. There’s a few names that I think aren’t making waves yet but will be soon enough such as Cailee Spaeny.

Zendaya is a very interesting topic to me because she’s a great actress but I think her hype doesn’t match up with her portafolio. She doesn’t have a diverse filmography or enough accolades in the movie industry. She has yet to prove that she’s someone that can be versatile and live up to her hype. She’s been in many franchises but never as the lead role or main character being targeted for the audience. I think Challengers is a big one for her because it will challenge her status as a movie star/critically acclaimed actress and if she really can pull off numbers on the box office as a titular character.

I think there will never be someone like Jlaw that was able to make huge numbers with original content and not just IPs or franchises but the truth is that the movie industry is way different than before - there’s way more content to consume than it was before. But I feel like her era of dominating both fields was iconic.

I’m so late replying but in the meantime Timothee has signed an ongoing first look deal with Warner Bros Discovery to star and produce so um. Yeah. That person is fuckin wrong and you’re bang on the money. I agree!! 2021 on things have truly shifted in his career. He went from indie acclaimed darling/rising teen heartthrob star/Oscar nominee to proven box office draw. Okay, I do see the argument, he’s been in existing franchises. He needs to lead an original romcom (a la Anyone But You) or original action movie (a la Tenet) or original crime drama (a la… nothing in ages sadly lmao, if we’re talking successes since everything’s a remake or sequel or based on a book or video game now, but anyway). EVEN STILL. He’s pretty A list now and there are v v few Gen Z actors who can say the same. I agree. He’ll def have to keep up the momentum + not make too many mistakes, like the ppl giving him advice is v promising. I agree about ATJ and I too think Furiosa will be HUGE for making her a star in her own right. I agree about Florence too. She’s known but not like. By everyone idk. Agreeeed about Austin and Cailee, sooo many are on the cusp !

I would also add that Harris Dickinson and Joe Alwyn are potentialllyyyy on the cusp but they’re both more of indie boys who are slowly getting more mainstream, like years behind where Timmy was in like. 2018. Ya feel? But for Harris, The Iron Claw is a biggie (loved him in Beach Rats myself) and for Joe I think this new Yorgos movie (Kinds of Kindness) could help him bc of the Poor Things momentum/acclaim for Yorgos in theaters. Not just bc I’m a stan but also Paul Mescal. He’s definitely an indie darling but has risen pretty fucking fast (Normal People breakthrough, Aftersun with that Oscar nom, All of Us Strangers, etc) but he’s leading Gladiator 2. That is HUGE. Big make or break moment for him but genuinely he has the look + talent for movie star. So we shall see.

I think you’re exactly right about Zendaya. And like having the pressure of leading a Luca Guadagnino movie that’s been delayed a ton is not an easy task. I really hope it does well lol I’m in her corner for sure. But yeah I think people definitely do bank on her star power and like her producing and stuff but I could see it being like either she stays in prestige TV and non-risky movies like she has been so far, or she becomes a full blown movie star. And who knows which yet! She’s so young.

Oooh it really was and it was right when everyone was online but streaming wasn’t ubiquitous yet. A very particular and interesting time. I agree.

[princess-of-the-corner]

Ya know. I find it interesting like.

Actually reading the bnha manga and seening Bakugo and Izuku in middle school. Just. The whole thing.

Yeah, Bakugo is an arrogant fucker. And yeah he is a dick to Izuku.

However.

So is everyone else. The rest of the class is laughing at him. The teacher just lets this happen. Even after a line of 'you're not allowed to use your Quirks in class', there isn't even some half-assed Willy Wonka "no don't stop' to reprimand Bakugo when he does so. I'm not sure who does it, but someone brings up Izuku applying to UA /specifically while Bakugo is talking about his own applications/ to provoke him into bothering Izuku about it.

It's fucked up and honestly? Actually makes me more sympathetic to both characters because holy fuck is that a shitty situation. Obviously Izuku is hurt more but with everything I see? We're lucky Bakugo isn't /worse/ than he is.

(Side note: I don't blame the other kids more than I blame Bakugo. They're all also just kids stuck in a fucked system and they need to learn. But that teacher is def on my shit list.)

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[own-high-end]

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[inthenewagefashion]

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[destinyc1020]

Wonka really doing well,but in environment of not existence competition,only family friendly film this holiday season that not suck. No holiday cartoons and Aquaman flop so bad so its was easy,some small rom-coms, indie films that's it. Nothing interesting till February so it's will do 500 maybe 600m

Idk Anon.... 🤔

Actually, the winter and Christmas holiday season is one of the toughest competition-wise (aside from summer) because usually there IS so much coming out during the holiday season, and tons of films are out there to see. And also, because people are usually off work, they can have their pick of the choice of seeing many various films....

So I actually think the competition was pretty high? 🤷🏾‍♀️

Wonka came out around the same time as a superhero film (that's a SEQUEL btw), and other children's films ("Migration", "Wish"), a naughty rom-com ("Anyone But You".... that's ALSO doing pretty well actually), and a huge MUSICAL ("The Color Purple") that's based on a very well-known and popular IP as well!

So yea, I'd say that "Wonka" def had some competition.

I would say it wouldn't have much competition if it came out during a month or a time when not much was coming out.

But the holidays and the summer time are usually some of the biggest months for competition.

Granted, some films had their release dates pushed back to next year due to the strikes, but a lot of those films weren't even supposed to come out in December anyway. 🤷🏾‍♀️