#wolverine meta

[hellsquills]

Thinking so hard about Logan's faith

He really is a man that has lost everything. EVERYTHING. In every timeline, in every universe. So much loss and betrayal and pain.

This "worst" wolverine has absolutely nothing. No friends, no family, no xmen.

And yet he doesn't think life is unfair. TO HIM. He thinks life has been unfair to all the good and innocent people around him, but not to him. Because unlike him, those people deserved a good, long life that he's been cursed with.

And yet he's not a hopeless man, not really. Because after losing everything, it just takes Deadpool and Laura (two people he didn't previously know!!) to remind him that goodness exists. That purpose is something that he can still have, if he wants it.

And Logan believes. He believes so hard in them because, deep down, something in him knows that humanity is not only worth fighting for, but also that he wants to fight for it.

Deep down, despite everything, he wants be good (which he is, he just doesn't see it)

[gossippool]

*steeples hands under my chin like i'm sherlock* so you see,

[mischievous-thunder]

Logan not only held onto the photograph after the fight until he fell asleep but also kept it with himself until what he thought was going to be his last conversation with Wade.

Just prior to going into the chamber to destroy the Time Ripper, Logan gave the photo back to Wade because the man didn't think that he'd make it. He wasn't someone who expressed their emotions too eloquently but in that moment his expressions and voice conveyed what his heart truly felt. Seeing Wade teared up and realising that that moment could be their very last together, Logan let the voice of his heart take over.

That was their declaration of love.

[fictionalmenmistress]

I haven't seen anyone else talk about it, so I wanted to share that Logan's rant monologue insulting Wade in the Honda Odyssey, before Wade decides to beat him up and they ~fight~ all night... that so clearly to me, was Logan projecting. It started as a tempered rant to cope with how annoyed and pent up he was, with the heat of everything and with Wade's muchness that makes him, him, but the longer he went on, the more he started ranting and exposing himself in the process.

"THE XMEN REJECTED YOU, AND THEY'LL TAKE FUCKING ANYONE!!!" That was my first hit, that he was referring to himself. He sees himself so lowly, so failed, that's canonical to the film. And canonically, he didn't even quite originally feel worthy or want to be with the XMEN. Didn't feel like there was a place for him there, a place for him anywhere. One of his biggest healings was Professor X not giving up on helping him believe that he deserved to be there, was wanted, was worthy, was a good guy. That's canon to his character. So we know he was speaking about himself. He was chewing Wade out, but he was also talking and focusing moreso on what upset him about himself. (He sees himself as just any jo shmo, when he IS literally THE X MAN ㅠㅠ)

He was seeing himself in Wade, how he "can't even save a relationship with a gd stripper", (he sees himself as not able to save anything either, and he's angry for that more than anything else he's angry or annoyed at) projecting SO HARD as he pieced together saying it out loud, that Wade was exactly like him. Logan hated himself for not saving anything. For being a "loser", a "failure", for all of the same reasons he was lashing out at Wade for. He was so angry and annoyed by Wade reminding him of himself, because he related to him. Wade was his reflection, in his eyes, calling him out so loudly with his own behaviors. And he hated himself. He deeply was suffering with that hatred for himself, and as a result, he lashed out on Wade when really he was chewing out himself, inside, admitting it.

"God's CRUELEST JOKE, IS THAT YOU *WONT* DIE ALONE. BECAUSE YOU! CANT! DIE! SO THE REST OF US HAVE TO SUFFER YOU THE REST OF OUR EXISTENCE!" (something along that.)

He didn't know for sure that Wade can't die. He picked up on that Wade can't be killed. Logan is the one who can't die. They are two flipped sides of the same immortal power coin. When he finished his screaming at him, and everyone was silent at how cruel and shocking the confrontation and his words were, I was sinking with a very empathetically whispered "oh, Logan..." Because I felt his misery. I immediately picked up on him really talking about himself, and I think that was genius and layered. I was upset for how awful that was to say to Wade, heartbroken for Wade taking that to heart, and I was heartbroken that Logan was saying that because he believes that about himself. Because they are, oddly, a lot alike. Very compatible.

This scene here:

I read that Hugh said that Ryan wrote that. He's brilliant with these films. It was so genius. I really needed to share this and bring this thought, meta, analysis to light. For all of us to have.

Is Logan mad at God's "cruel joke" of his immortality, yet ability to feel so much pain through it still? Yes. He punched the roof in rage, because it's not fair. Venting his own pain. He sees his powers, his own and Wade's too, empathetically, as their curse. The curse of being the one who lives, and the guilt with that. The one who can't die. The one who lives, who is forced to live, while everyone who "deserves to live" dies. And WILL die, around them.

"And You can't die. That's on all of US!" Logan says, clearly referring to himself living forever... And "us" being the people HE loved. He saw himself as a burden for existing with them, for them. He deflected that onto Wade, as if the people in Wade's life must feel that way too, but didn't really mean that. He meant it about himself. Logan believes he was a burden on the people he loves, the people he lost. That's probably why he left too, and didn't come back when they called out for him to. He distanced himself to protect them, and protect himself from that fear of rejection that he feels is so imminent, and them not having him, is the one element that led to none of them surviving without him. He was always the key. He was always wanted, and he was always important and needed. He just couldn't ever believe that.

Man, that's why it became so personal for Logan too, when he was shown Wade's photograph of his family. Because HE had a family, and he would do anything now to save them. Just like Wade. He held that photograph all night, he went and got it when it fell out of the car, he kept looking at it. It became personal for him, when he identified with it. That Honda scene really was their turning point of everything. That's when Logan cared with everything. He got it. Wade is the him he couldn't be. But now he can.

I dropped some heat with this one.

Extra little personal context/thought notes: Maybe I just spotted it because I have a natural knack for psychology, I'm hyperobservant, highly empathetic and deeply feeling, and I'm also years experienced of my parents and whole family treating me the same exact toxic lashout way almost every other day. That's a workweek for me to see through toxic lashout anger BS. These are not my gifs!!! They were created by another amazing account. I will refind their @ and tag them!! >>> It's @landoslastnerve ! Thank you friend! 🤍

Also wanted to include someone's tags from those gifs:

.

[heartsandmuses]

i keep seeing posts about how ppl wish that deadpool and wolverine actually fucked in the honda odyssey... but they did! they used almost every cinematic shorthand for sex possible in that scene. the focus on penetration (knives, claws) in incredibly close proximity. the bodily fluids (blood) spraying everywhere. the car rocking. the day-to-night transition. the way they're laying beside each other afterwards. the very deliberate choice of "you're the one that i want" playing in the background. they fucked!! it's hays code era fucking, bc it had to be approved by disney at the end of the day, but it still counts!!

[hondafuckingodyssey]

My friends in fanfiction it has just occurred to me, how did Wade get from tied up in seatbelts in the Honda Odyssey to laying on this bed? Did somebody lovingly untie him and carry him in like an toddler who fell asleep on the car ride home? Did he brush a little kiss on his forehead when he laid him down? Did he struggle with complicated feelings and then watch over him and wait to start drinking until he knew he was awake and safe? Hmmm?

[gods-perfect-idiots]

Okay bear with me folks, I have some ~thoughts~ about the Vanessa/Wade relationship (or frankly lack thereof) in Deadpool & Wolverine. I should start by saying that I am analyzing this with the (likely erroneous) assumption that everything on screen is 100% intentional and mindfully written to deepen the characters and inform their arcs. For the record, I don't necessarily believe that's true - there is certainly room for mistakes, lazy writing, confusing plot elements, or in this case, sidelining a potentially strong and important character for nebulous reasons (I'm guessing scheduling conflicts + run time concerns + actor's strike complications but idk for sure). (Also thanks to @gossippool and @kendyroy for encouraging me to post my thoughts instead of just rambling in the tags in the first place, y'all are the realest)

Long rambly post below the cut fyi

Now, granted, it has been a while since I watched the original Deadpool so I am not as well-versed in their early relationship as I am in the handful of scenes Morena Baccarin has in dp3, but I do think it is pretty canon that Wade generally struggles to express his deeper worries and feelings (without filtering it heavily through crude humor, sex, and pop culture references of course), especially after the events of dp1 and the physical and mental damage he sustains, and Vanessa is frankly no exception despite how much he cares for her. The entire first movie hinges on the fact that he doesn't really believe she could love him in his post-Francis mangled state, which is pretty contrived imo given that the film has established already how bonded they are, and she doesn't strike me as being written to be so shallow as to reject him based on a physical deformity. I mean iirc she wanted to stick around through chemo despite him being literally riddled with inoperable cancer, so she clearly is in it for the long haul (at least in dp1), messiness and all.

Now, in dp2, obviously she is shot and killed early in the film, and Wade spends much of the rest of the film wallowing in his very profound grief, trauma, and guilt over losing her due directly to his violent lifestyle. He goes to prison, he basically gives up on life and seems very resigned to dying once he has the power suppressant collar on, even excited to do so so he can be reunited with her. She is mostly sidelined as a Fuzzy Dead Wife trope basically, but the important thing here is that he spends weeks if not months in the throes of despair over losing the love of his life just as they were trying to start a family, and trying to reach across the boundaries of death to be with her.

Now, my first couple times watching dp3 I was frustrated by the trite narrative presented in the interview scene towards the beginning - specifically Wade's whole "my girl is getting tired of my shtick and I need to show her I matter". It felt contrived and disingenuous, and I just brushed it off as iffy writing, a means to an end, but the more I reflect upon it the more I think it is based in an emotional reality that is just handled with a very light touch by the film in favor of fanservice and Poolverine content (NOT that I'm complaining in the slightest - I think this movie is a masterpiece in many ways, albeit a flawed one but that's beside the point here), which for the record I am not against because I think it lends it an air of realism. This is Wade's story after all, Vanessa is a part of it but it is ultimately about him and his journey.

Basically, I think the combination of what happened to him in dp1 (the brain damage, the trauma, the awareness of the fourth wall, etc) followed by the events of dp2 (Vanessa's death, his grief and the associated guilt and trauma of being the direct cause of her death) led to an unbridgeable emotional gap between the two of them that ultimately leads to their breakup.

It's important to note that I don't think Vanessa has any recollection of her own death, given that Wade goes back and saves her before she can take the bullet, and so of course she can never fully fathom what Wade went through grieving her and their life together and their potential family, for however long he spent between her death and bringing her back with Cable's device. She can try (and she clearly does in the one scene I'll talk about next) but I fear she accepts, maybe even in that scene, that she can never succeed. He is beyond her reach by this point, and vice versa, his experiences having fundamentally changed him.

The one scene we really see from their relationship between dp2 and dp3 is the one where Cassandra mind-gropes Wade in the Void and we see Vanessa struggling to reach Wade across this aforementioned gap - she wants him to open up, she wants him to share what he's going through, she wants him to be the person she initially fell in love with (not even selfishly - to her nothing has changed really, because to her no time has passed). But not only does he not understand what she's really asking for but he responds in such a way that makes me think he has unprocessed issues that are only tangentially related to what she's saying - ie the stuff about mattering, about asking her if she even wants to be with him, etc. And he's not the Wade Wilson she met back in dp1 anymore. He watched her die and grieved her and brought her back, believing it would make everything go back to normal and they could resume their life together as if nothing had changed, but he has been fundamentally changed in a way that she can't grasp, even if he WAS good at externally processing his trauma openly without the artifice of wry jokes. She didn't "come back wrong" - instead, she came back exactly the same as before, but HE'S different now. Not wrong, per se. But changed.

It's an interesting scene because it's obviously a memory, and a crucial one at that, but you can see how Wade is misunderstanding what she's saying, viewing it through the prism of his own lack of self-worth and his own hopelessness - he takes away that she thinks he doesn't matter (even though like he says she didn't actually say that, but I don't think Cassandra invented that wholecloth - I think she pulled it out of his psyche because that's what he believes deep down, hence why his fixation on mattering even though she never said those words exactly), he takes away that she doesn't want to be with him, that she thinks he's nothing. Which would be frustrating as an audience member to witness as a pretty simple misunderstanding which could potentially be solved with one conversation, but it feels believable to me that these two people who have shared a great love would be fundamentally separated by unimaginable, cosmic trauma, and the on conversation they would need to have to rectify the misunderstanding is one that is impossible for Wade to verbalize and equally impossible for Vanessa to conceive of. It was one thing when they had shared trauma like violence and SA in dp1, but what Wade has gone through in dp1 and dp2, humor aside, is unfathomably traumatic, brain-breakingly so even, and that's not even factoring in the possible mental illnesses he now struggles with (I've seen folks suggest schizophrenia, DID, depression, etc. but I won't get into armchair diagnosing a fictional character here - suffice it to say he is canonically unwell as a result of what has happened to him, and yes it manifests as quirky fourth wall breaks and cheeky one-liners, but within the universe of the movies he is undeniably profoundly mentally ill, and that includes this humorous alter ego he created to cope with his trauma).

I think off-screen Vanessa probably really tried to reach him, maybe for years (the six year gap implies to me that they didn't break up immediately, that they tried for a while to stay together), trying to get her Wade back, but that Wade is gone. He struggled to express that to her until eventually he started to feel rejected because he couldn't express his trauma or how much he has changed, because even he can't fully conceive of the gulf that has formed between them. The truth is, he WANTS to be that Wade again, for her and for himself, but that Wade died when she died. Or maybe he had already started dying when Francis got a hold of him in dp1.

Anyway, all this is to say, I think Morena Baccarin WAS criminally underutilized in dp2 and dp3, but I think there is a strong argument to be made for the believability of their breakup regardless. I think even relationships built on enormous love can crumble due to trauma, and what Wade suffers over these movies is mind-bogglingly enormous trauma. It's especially heartbreaking that he blames himself for their relationship ending, talks like she just got tired of him, thought he didn't matter, whatever. But it is a credit to him that he never seems to feel anger towards her about it. He doesn't seem to feel entitled to her, though he longs for her and what they had and what she represented (hope, love, a future, a family), but ultimately she becomes more of a symbol of what he lost when he gained his powers, because let's be super fr right now - even if they had succeeded in having a baby, not only would they have lived in fear of her or the kid getting killed, but ultimately Wade would likely outlive both of them even if they managed to die natural deaths. The moment he gained his powers he was already destined to lose her, which is heartbreaking because she was the only reason he opted for the treatment in the first place - so he could stay with her.

I think a big part of Deadpool & Wolverine is watching Wade continue to process his own motivations (vis-a-vis Vanessa but also his other friends) and how he does eventually let go of the idea of "mattering" in favor of just saving the people he cares about (*cough* and being saved right back *cough* by Wolvie, as the final line and shot implies). And in the process he finds someone new who cares about him, who thinks he matters, who tries to sacrifice himself for him and his friends after mere days of knowing him, who comes home with him at the end of the story, who breaks his own centuries-old patterns, who has also experienced unimaginable grief and trauma, who has struggled with wanting to die and being unable to, who not only matches his crazy but matches his FREAK and also not only won't die on him but CAN'T die on him - and more importantly cannot be randomly killed by a stray bullet.

Idk if any of this makes much sense but I do think if you read between the lines and consider the potency of trauma and grief, guilt and emotional damage at play here, Vanessa and Wade's off-screen breakup is actually pretty realistic, and really heart-breaking to boot.

You can tell she still cares about him in so many ways - she shows up for his birthday party, she shows up to his welcome home party at the end, she finds excuses for physical contact multiple times, her eyes get soft when she looks at him, but there is a distance there that Morena Baccarin does an incredible job of portraying. She cares about him deeply, she has mourned the loss of their potential life together, she has let him go and accepted that the Wade she fell in love with is gone, but she wants him in her life even though she's moving on because she realizes he's gone somewhere she can't follow (literally and figuratively). And she wants him to be happy which is why I fully believe she would immediately clock the Poolverine of it all and not-so-subtly encourage them to make it official.

Anyway. Poolverine forever. Nothing against Vanessa at all - I think she delivers a nuanced and beautiful performance, I think their relationship is sweet and heart-wrenching in large part due to her acting chops, especially given how little she is given to work with - but I think their relationship was sadly doomed from almost the very start, because Wade becomes this traumatized superhuman and Vanessa would always be at risk in his orbit, but also would always on the outside of his multiverse superhero experiences. I think it's weirdly beautiful, even if I am filling in a lot of gaps and giving the writers maybe undue credit.

Anyway... thoughts? Please DM me or write in the tags, I am feral about this movie and just want to talk about it with anyone haha. If you have further insight into these characters too I'd love to hear it - I am by no means an expert in these movies or characters!

[artbyblastweave]

So, one criticism of Deadpool and Wolverine, and a criticism to which I think there's some meat, is that they basically chucked the entirety of the supporting cast from the first two movies in order to shift focus onto Wade and Logan- which is especially egregious because a major part of the emotional thrust of the movie is Wade's unwillingness to abandon that supporting cast by transplanting into the MCU proper.

But what I find interesting about this, right, is that Wade getting shanghai-ed away from his normal supporting cast to go on a metatextual multiversal road-not-taken adventure would be a pretty standard 3-to-6-issue plot in an ongoing Deadpool comic. I can think of at least four times I've seen this done. And in the comics, any given member of the supporting cast not being on-panel this particular issue doesn't mean that the authors forgot about them, doesn't mean they aren't coming back at some point. That would be a ridiculous complaint. Infant-level object permanence. It's different with a film, though, because in a film franchise, the wacky multiversal excursion constitutes a third of all extant content involving the character- you're genuinely losing out on the cast from the other two-thirds, it's zero-sum, and you never know who'll be available for the fourth movie or if there'll even be a fourth one.

I once saw someone (I forget who) make the argument that one of the issues with translating the marvel universe to the MCU is that most of the movies are depicting or adapting crisis-crossover-level shitshows and status-quo shakeups without similarly porting in all of the smaller-scale status-quo-compliant adventures that serve as connective tissue between the big shakeups and give them actual weight. This leads to some ambiguity as to whether these films are depicting the only interesting things that ever happen to these heroes, or if there's a wealth of unseen smaller-scale villains being fought in the space between installments that just never come up. And here we get a film that's an adaptation of that exact kind of connective-tissue adventure, and suddenly, uh oh! It's actually kinda fighting for space with every other kind of story you could tell in the same runtime. I don't think I'm describing a real problem here, It still can handily justify itself, but that question wouldn't even come up if it were a comic. A tension inherent to adapting any character and supporting cast native to the sprawl of big-two cape comics (despite the movie in many ways being about that tension!)

[velvet4510]

I can’t get over James McAvoy’s astounding acting choices in DOFP when it comes to Charles’ feelings toward Erik. When Logan first mentions that they’ll need Erik too - right after that hysterical, broken laugh, Charles starts panting like a dog in the summertime while saying “he’s where he belongs.” Just a mention of Erik’s name sends Charles gasping for breath. Then on the plane, before they start talking, there’s a long beat where Charles just stares at Erik, trembling and twitching and looking like he’s about to spontaneously combust. I mean that’s just … McAvoy made CHOICES.

[postsforposting]

in dp3, wade says disney prohibited them from doing cocaine on screen. "do you wanna build a snowman" is a euphemism for cocaine but the song itself is about wanting a family member to play with.

so when wade says disney prohibited them from doing cocaine on screen....what it also meant was that disney prohibited family from "playing together".

which is why there's no explicit on screen sex in dp&w even though there was in the first movie.

the theme of frozen, of course, is that people who are different shouldn't be treated differently, ashamed, or have to hide. kind of ironic that disney would make frozen but then ban the gays from equally building a snowman.

wade wants to build a snowman all movie long. but he can't. it can't be on screen. so it happened off screen.

did you notice during the honda scene that there were obvious SHHNNGGG knife noises/stabbing noises through the whole thing....except for the last few seconds of the "COEXIST" shot?

what do you think they were doing off screen while they weren't fighting but the car was still rockin? "you're the one that i want", after all, just like anna wants elsa to come out with her.

and after all that, we find them laid out and framed like they're at the altar, complete with wade wrapped head to toe in a veil of seatbelts.

sex is crack and we all know how much crack Wade uses.

[gossippool]

one of the funniest parts of the honda odyssey scene is right after logan pulls the car over because he's so obviously burning with rage over wade lying to him, but then wade says he made an "educated wish" and that bewilders logan so much he goes from being mad to just blinking and staring at him like this

and then wade goes on that long spiel about how he needs to save his family and at the end of all that logan just says "did you say you made an educated fucking wish?" his baffled ass was NOT listening 😭

[mischievous-thunder]

Wade, during an argument: Now you sound like those boring unromantic people.

Logan, deadpanning: Says the one whose idea of flirting is to kidnap an unsuspecting drunk man at gunpoint from a bar.

Wade: YOU LEANED AGAINST MY GUN OMG YOU-

Logan, smirking: -Which further proves that I'm neither boring nor unromantic.

[kalinara]

The day I stop posting this and making terrible penetration jokes is the day I'll be dead.

(I do wonder why more writers don't do more with the idea of one of the Wolverines using their claws for emergency medical purposes. The idea of a normally violent character using their inborn weapons as instruments of healing always hits pretty hard. And I think Laura, in particular, could really benefit from that kind of experience.)

But mostly I'm here for the fact that the moon was not the first time that a part of Wolverine was inserted into Cyclops.

(X-Men #70)

[fluideli123]

Since my dp&w analysis are blowing up I also want to add something else I feel like people haven't spoken about, and it's the fact that I've seen a few fellow a-spec people state they didn't notice how a-spec the Deadpool & Wolverine movie was and I would like to take a moment to make a proper post explaining why it can be interpreted that way.

The singular Honda Odyssey scene was in fact sexually charged and very fucking queer, but usually it's described as gay sex without actual dicks out and about. Or at least that it wasn't on camera when they were out and about.

But I believe the accidental censorship of Dinsey the Deadpool studio had to work around and the relationship and dynamic of Wade and Logan actually created something so a-spec that I literally haven't seen anything more a-spec in my life? (that isn't mentioning one specific fic I hold dear to my heart)

You have an emotionally charged interaction that involves passionate, brutal yet consensual physical actions that reflect as penetration and some kinky ass shit without actually crossing that social sexual/romantic line. Both Wade and Logan give "come here" motions, they're fighting but there were moments they could have stopped if they wanted to but didn't.

They're being intimate with one another in a way that fits them both and the situation. It can be seen as sexual, a fight, and blowing off steam all at once and I think an aspect of being a-spec is being told how your actions with someone else don't make sense within two boxes (sexual and/or romantic) or mean something that only lives within those boxes.

If you're a term person than think of it a specific type of physical and aesthetic intimacy. One involves touch without entering the body and one involves doing something both enjoy and bonding over it, encouraging each others enjoyment.

[spaceorphan18]

Favorite Rogue Panels : Gambit (1993) #1

While not at all related, XMen 97 got me thinking of this panel. The first time Rogue says that she loves Remy out loud. (If I'm remembering correctly, forgive me it's been a while since I've read the early stuff.)

She's so unsure of herself, in a way, holding herself close because just saying it, admitting it makes her feel vulnerable. Rogue always kind of holds herself close. She can take hits from the heaviest of hitters. But breaking through and getting to her heart? It's like she has to physically comfort herself, shield herself, from what that statement means. But she is sure of the words she's saying. She is sure of what her heart is telling her as much as it scares her.

And the statement is so simple. Just a simple declaration of how she feels. Something, like touch, that can be so easy for other people, but not for her. But at this point she knows. She longs, she wants, she's deeply, deeply in love with Remy even here and it's just this fantasy that she doesn't think she'll ever have. Not with her situation. Not with him having a wife... Just a mockery of a dream despite her heart.

This panel is so melancholy and beautiful and just packs a lot in a very simple moment.

I love this moment so much.

[hondafuckingodyssey]

Ok, so I'm doing my post Deadpool and Wolverine X-men movie rewatch, and I'm noticing that Logan works best as a character when he's paired up with Scott Summers. They annoy each other, they contrast, Scott is the responsible one and Logan is the wild card who can't follow directions.

Which is why Deadpool and Wolverine is so brilliant. What do you do with the wildcard? You pair him up with an even wilder card. He's like the kid who gave all of his high school teachers shit, suddenly faced with an even more annoying little shit and all of a sudden he has to figure out how to be the responsible adult and he can practically hear Scott Summers laughing at him going "karma's a bitch, ain't it?"