#which is literally mike wheeler core

[iamtheoneandonlyever]

when you overhear tons and tons (like 4) people at your school talking about st and how they think its a brilliant show and you are stuck here like don't ask them about byler don't ask them about byler don- bc you live in a very queerphobic country and will probably get targeted

(idk if queerphobic is a word but since almost all are looked down upon, i am making up this term)

the worst part- i start analyzing them to see if they would ship byler by what they do and how they talk and such and they do indeed fill some criteria but at the end of the day you are still living in a queerphobic country

[lucystark12]

mike wheeler and jaime lannister are the same character and that also means byler is real 🥳

my last post about game of thrones versus stranger things where i talked about writing and what went wrong with dan and david did pretty well so i figured id elaborate just a bit on my quick side note i had in there about mike reminding me of jaime because it’s something i literally cannot shake. they are so similar it causes me extreme amounts of stress. and im on a two hour flight so i have time to explain it all to you 🥳🤗

to begin, my favorite stranger things characters are mike and nancy and my favorite game of thrones characters are sansa and jaime. if you already see a pattern, then you’re on the right track, because yes, i am a believer in the misunderstood character who is widely hated amongst fans but is arguably the best written one in the given source material. sansa and nancy are both fundamentally similar characters- they both start out as naive girls who are very singularly focused on their reputation and how they’re perceived by the people around them. this is evident in nancy’s relationship with steve and with basically every single action sansa takes in season one of game of thrones. through being forced into a dangerous environment however, both characters learn to shed the ideas they had about what it means in their given world to be “successful” and “important.” i tend to love characters like that because their so realistic. even if we aren’t all being abused by kings or shooting demegorgans, most of us can relate to wishing we were something we weren’t and having to learn the hard way that it’s just better to be yourself

i just wanted to get the nancy sansa pipeline out of the way first before i talk about mike and jaime, because where nancy and sansa are similar, jaime and mike are practically twins.

let’s look at both characters at the beginning of their respective story-

- mike is 12 years old and knows close to nothing except for the fact that he wants to be able to protect the people he cares about. throughout the first season, we see mike’s guilt for not being able to find will metaphorically eat him alive, coming to a head at the cliff scene where when his other best friend is in threat of being harmed, he decides that he would rather die than not be able to save someone he cares about again.

- jaime is mike on a twenty year delay, but his story begins about where mike is at in ~season 3. however, when jaime was about 15, he was appointed to the kings guard, a position he partly sought out to be close to cersei (his affair partner (and sister but that’s a conversation for another day)) (also, mike acts the way he does when will goes missing partly because he’s lost somebody he subconsciously loves too and if you don’t think mike has been subconsciously in love with him this whole time ily but womp womp ur wrong) but also partly sought out because of his notions of what it meant to be a knight- it means that you’re fighting for the people and essentially saving as many as you possibly can. jaime is a character who cares very much about the people around him, similarly to mike. jaime’s situation comes to a similar head when he kills the king to prevent him from essentially bombing the capital city and killing half a million innocent people, which in doing so he puts his own life and reputation at risk

these characters are both so similar because they both value life. they are willing to sacrifice themselves and their reputation in the interest of other people. this is who they both are at the core of their person. however, at some point throughout their arc they both go back on their previous behaviors. they don’t so much regret the way they behaved, but the pressures about their roles that have been put on them by society lead them both to believe that their behavior is wrong in some way.

with mike, i’m talking about how affectionate (?) he was with will in season two. i’m naming what happened after the whole hospital “best thing i’ve ever done” sequence and before season three as mike going through the same thing jaime does in the period between when he kills the king and when the show starts. i think in both of these time frames, the two of them start to have this realization based on the people around them that what they did was wrong and won’t be widely accepted. jaime’s king slaying was treasonous and mike realizes that his love confession coded monologue to will in the hospital wasn’t necessarily normal behavior. this is also the exact time period in which the raegan bush election is happening. they literally probably voted during season 2. id also like to point out that both of them come from very rigid and strict families. and if you’re denying me this for mike, they have a raegan bush sign in their yard.

now we pick up in season 1 for jaime and season 3 for mike. this is where im going to bring up the singular most important part of both of their respective arcs- the love triangle. season 1/3 are the most important times for both melvin and jercei (?). melvin is at peak affection, and basically mike’s entire story for a good portion of this season revolves around her. this is basically the peak of jercei because it’s right before they get separated and their whole dynamic changes. but uh oh! there’s trouble in paradise for both! suddenly mike and el are broken up and jaime and cersei are separated by the war of the five kings. this next part bleeds into season 2/3 for jaime and season 4 for mike, when mike and el are quite literally separated.

so, both of them are separated from side one of their love triangle, who both are using as a gateway to solve what they think is their biggest flaw- jaime his narcissism and mike his sexuality. then, and this is one of my favorite little parallels, they are both literally escorted home by the other side of the triangle, where “home” (hawkins for mike, kings landing for jaime) serves to say the truth about who they are as people that they weren’t quite ready to face before they set off on their respective physical journeys. (mikes trip to california, jaimes push north)

obviously in stranger things mike and will literally go back to hawkins together. in game of thrones, jaime gets captured by the opposing army and is escorted back to the capital by a knight for the opposing army, brienne, under the condition that he will safely return the king’s sisters to him. throughout both of their returns home, they both are forced to come to terms with their feelings just a little bit. jaime admits the truth of his kingslay to brienne, and mike is given the painting. i don’t think mike has put ANY of the dots together on the painting yet, but once he does, this will serve as a HUGE influence on his character development and relationship with will (another thing i could talk about for hours). then they both get home, and jaime’s view starts to shift just a little bit… he starts thinking “hey wait… maybe brienne is onto something. maybe i don’t have to be so terrible all the time and conform to what society wants me to be.” now obviously we don’t know if mike is thinking this way yet, but my guess is that he probably will start having a similar thing next season.

the reason both brienne and will are so important to their character arcs are because in the context of the love triangle or decision their romantic interest is making, they serve to symbolize non conformity and embracing the truth about who you are and what you stand for. brienne isn’t conventionally attractive like cersei and actively goes against what was expected of women at the time. being with will would make him a part of a gay relationship, which was very nonconformist at the time. where cersei and eleven serve in the relationship to show pretending, insecurity, and lies since they are literally the exact opposite of brienne and will. and guess who doesn’t lie? FRIENDS.

so, what i’m saying is that will is essential to ending mike’s character arc just like brienne was to jaime, and that if stranger things fumbles the bag and doesn’t make it happen like game of thrones did, then mike will live in infamy as an unfinished character who had a stupid ending just like jaime did.

also, i am a “jaime should have killed cersei and then died in the fire with her” truther and similarly believe that mike should sacrifice himself in the last summer to come full circle to the sacrificial person he used to be. i also don’t believe in happy endings because they’re boring ❤️

this is why im SO FUCKING NERVOUS about mike. i’m literally having ptsd god help me! 🤗🤗 pls matt and ross learn from the mistakes of your elders and break the game of thrones curse!! as daenerys targaryen would say- BREAK THE WHEEL!!

[brionysea]

soooo vale of shadows on mike's playlist

Type 6 and insane

this line made me wonder if they were talking about the enneagram personality types and if that one specifically applied to mike, so i looked it up and...

yes. i'm gonna take that as an immediate yes

like. these could literally be from the personality section of a mike wheeler wiki page

i'm lowkey convinced that the duffers must have looked at enneagram types when making these characters just like i do

and then there's this bit...

which, if the manifestation theory is true (which the rest of the song heavily supports but that's a different post), explains everything

They are often filled with a nameless anxiety and then try to find or create reasons why.

do you ever notice how much better mike is in situations where he has something to fight against? he's not drifting. he's solid. he has purpose, he has the necessary intelligence and strategic capabilities and leadership skills, he has constant opportunities to prove his own bravery and importance to the people whose opinions he values (and therefore himself)

in normal life, he flounders. he can't convince his parents to let them play their game for 20 more minutes. he doesn't have anything productive to channel his grief into. he avoids his friends. he caves in on himself

that's just an interesting contrast, isn't it?

the annual tragedy coming to hawkins every year also serves to make him feel more like the person he wants to be - a brave knight, fearlessly fighting against the forces of evil - and he can carry that reassurance with him back to the mundane, suburban life that never makes him feel anything but trapped and worthless

but it never sticks, because his insecurities keep getting ripped right back open again, so the monsters keep coming back

this exchange from "the source" (👀) is also particularly interesting in this new context

Mike: They're conspiring against me.

Will: That's what you're concerned about right now?

Mike: It's not my main concern. It's just a sub-concern.

the implication is that mike's being ridiculous for worrying about the made-up idea of max "corrupting" el, but wouldn't it be fucked up if the main problem that he's supposed to be worrying about was made up too? if he's been the titular source the whole time?

idk, i think about the character consequences of a reveal like this all the time. and how obvious it would be in hindsight

but back to enneagrams:

once they establish a trustworthy belief, they do not easily question it, nor do they want others to do so

and this just. makes me a little bit crazy. intelligent late-comer characters like robin and erica aren't allowed to work with mike when he's making those bizarre leaps in logic that match up perfectly with how the UD works and what its weaknesses are, because their tendency to ask smart person questions -> "hey, how the fuck does he know that?" -> the whole game falls apart (and crushes mike with guilt in the process)

seriously, imagine a research scene like the one robin had in the library with nancy, but with mike instead. there wouldn't be an "i don't know" response to what they're looking for, there would be a dead-on response that turns out to correlate exactly with the magic answer they find half an hour later - if they even need to do research in the first place, because mike tends to just make shit up on the spot that's immediately accepted as the show's lore. robin would find that so weird and she would not keep it to herself, especially if it's backed up by a million other instances of mike knowing things he shouldn't like he does every season

the lack of familiarity with mike and how he operates is exactly what would lead to those weird patterns being questioned, because there's no instinctive "well, that's just mike" response to fall back on like there is with the core cast

this paragraph pretty much single-handedly convinced me that the show will end when mike's internal world comes into balance (that or when he dies, which i do and don't like thinking about in equal measure)

think about it: if this whole thing has just been one teenager's insecurities unknowingly being brought to life so that he can beat them back with a stick, when will it stop? when will it end? when he gains the type of self confidence that naturally comes with growing up and growing into himself, or when they die with him

mike might be okay with his death in those circumstances, because he thinks everyone else will be better off without him on an objective level of "the horrors will leave my friends alone forever", but characters like dustin and will and lucas wouldn't let that happen in a million years, no matter what their reactions to mike creating the horrors otherwise are

this makes me even more convinced that the season 4 threat - the one that's the perfect opportunity to tell the internal voices that don't think you have what it takes to make it in the real world to go to hell, if you have the kind of danger-induced determination and self-belief that he does - came from, and was meant for, mike

it would be interesting to determine what level he's at each season, with 1 being the healthiest and 9 being the unhealthiest, but i can't wrap my head around it. if anyone else wants to, please go ahead!

[creature-wizard]

The Strange Claims of Svali, the Fake Illuminati Defector

For anyone who happens to be new here, Svali is a fake ex-Illuminati programmer who claimed that she was part of a global conspiracy that was deliberately inducing dissociative identity disorder in all of its members. If you've ever heard of stuff like color/metal/gemstone programming, or fictive programming, that comes from Svali.

I have an update on Svali's own sources of inspiration, though - a lot of the stuff I initially thought that she'd come with herself appear to be sourced from How The Illuminati Create An Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave by Fritz Springmeier and Cisco Wheeler. This book proposes that the Illuminati is deliberately creating alters in people for the purpose of turning them into perfect slaves, and claims that modern media is used in the process.

My general statement that the conspiracy theorists in the DID community are sourcing their info from Svali is still accurate, because it's clearly quoting directly from her rather than from Cisco and Springmeier's much longer, more elaborate work. However, a lot of stuff that I initially believed came from Svali is definitely sourced from this book, which taking a glance at it, is even more ridiculous than the shit Svali claims. (And yes, she clearly got the idea that autism is caused by SRA from this book, which claims that autism is increasing because SRA is increasing. Fuck you, Fritz Springmeier and Cisco Wheeler.)

And once again, Svali's claims are also clearly influenced by discredited people such as Mike Warnke and Lauren Stratford. At the core, she's pushing the same Satanic Panic bullshit Evangelical Christians were cooking up and pushing in order to demonize anyone who wasn't a conservative (and particularly Evangelical) Christian, and scare people who already were conservative Christians into remaining such. Most of the claims were basically repackaged antisemitism and witch panic, just updated to be more plausible and relevant to audiences of the day.

In part six of the second part of her... interview, I guess? She claims that Bohemian Grove is an Illuminati thing. For those who don't know, conspiracy theorists basically believe that satanists perform human sacrifices to Molech there, whom they claim the giant owl represents. As far as I can tell, a lot of this goes back to a man named Paul Bonacci, who claimed to be a victim in the Franklin child prostitution ring allegations, which was purely a product of the Satanic Panic. Bonacci apparently claimed that he'd seen a snuff film made there. Worth noting, the Satanic Panic was big on the idea that all of these snuff films were being made, but there is literally zero evidence of such a thing.

Svali complains about people refusing to believe that SRA is real and dismissing the "evidence." For example:

You can show them a site with pentagrams, buried bones, and other evidence, and they would say, "Oh, that is just teenagers playing around".

Uh, yeah, Svali, it probably is just teenagers playing around. Teenagers do that kind of thing. Also, if the Illuminati was so good at covering its tracks, why would we find evidence like this? Seriously, why would a hypercompetent global cult leave such a mess?

Didn't think this one through, did ya?

In part seven, Svali talks about alleged Illuminati symbols. She claims that phoenixes and eagles (especially the German eagle) are symbols of the Illuminati, and claims that phoenixes symbolize the resurrection rituals where members' hearts are stopped and restarted with CPR, then told that Baal or another demon brought them back.

Next she claims that butterflies symbolize monarch programming. For those who don't know, a lot of conspiracy theorists believe in Project Monarch, which allegedly evolved out of MK-Ultra. Conspiracy theorists claim that any time you see a picture of a model or a celebrity wearing a butterfly, that means they're under monarch mind control, because they believe that the Illuminati has some weird spiritual obligation to tell the public what they're doing, even if it's not in a way the general public will understand. Or they supposedly do it to mock so they can giggle at them for not understanding the symbols they allegedly put "in plain sight."

Either way it's really ridiculous, and basically comes out of conspiracy theorists making something out of nothing. Since there's never any real evidence for these conspiracies, they have to fabricate it by claiming that things you can find anywhere are actually secret conspiratorial symbols.

She also claims that the Great Seal of Solomon is used at the "highest rituals" to invoke the demonic. Which, I mean, this is a symbol used in the context of demonolatry, but like, it has nothing to do with any kind of conspiracy, and much less originates from a global satanic conspiracy cult.

She claims that earth, wind, and fire (but somehow not air?) are Illuminati symbols?

Earth, water, and fire: these three are used in a lot of ceremonies. Check out how many Saturday a.m. cartoons use this concept. You'd be amazed. In fact, "The Fifth Element" movie was based on it.

Ma'am, you're gonna be shocked to learn that the classical elements were literally just what people used to reckon the natural world was made out of. It's been part of culture outside of occult contexts for thousands of years now.

She claims that the Illuminati is big on Greek and Roman symbols like... lightning bolts. Like uhhh yeah Zeus is associated with lightning bolts, but since when are lightning bolts, per se, a major Greco-Roman symbol? I dunno, this is very ridiculous and thank goodness we're getting closer and closer to the end.

Next she claims that the Illuminati runs the porn industry and produces CSEM, and claims that, "If a profit is being made off of human suffering, you can trace the chain back somewhere to these people."

She claims that they have money and lawyers for years and have infiltrated the governments and the media, and that they "run our financial institutions." Ma'am you're literally just spreading repackaged antisemitism here.

Oh and of course they're working on bringing in the Antichrist:

They are working towards bringing in a new leader, who will usher in a Luciferian reign of joy, prosperity, and rewards to the faithful. Almost an Elyssian type paradise. Of course, the brutality would continue, and those who oppose his reign are to be hunted down and converted or destroyed, but the followers will be so happy and content that they believe these holdouts will want to come over to their side. Sounds unbelievable, but true.

But she claims that they can be defeated because they are arrogant and believe they can overcome God. And also because a lot of them really don't like all of the abuse they're doing and can be persuaded to leave by telling them that they don't have to hurt people anymore.

In part eight, she claims that another name for the New World Order is "the Fourth Reich." So basically she's proposing that everyone who isn't a conservative Christian is secretly a Nazi, or might as well be.

Bluhhhhhhh.

Anyway we're finally getting to the more entertaining bits of this e-book - the demonic shapeshifting. Hang in there, it's coming next post.

[withacapitalp]

Nancy for the character question ask!

favorite thing about them

BADDIE NANCY!!!!! She shoots at a demogorgon and she fights all the time for everything. I also love that Nancy cares about Mike!!! Give us more of their sibling relationship in s5 PLEASE

least favorite thing about them

Ough I think that Nancy's one track mind can really be her downfall

favorite line

“Girls this age are dumb. But give ‘em a few years, and they’ll wise up. You’re gonna drive them nuts.”

Lmao Nancy doesn't have a ton of lines that stand out to me? But her and Dustin at the snowball and her trying to help him feel better? one of the sweetest scenes in the show

brOTP

Barb and Nancy!!! Eddie and Nancy!!! give her a best friend!!!! I also really like Nancy and Robin as buds!!! Them as friends is so greatttttt

OTP

Stoncy but in general I think that Nancy doesn't need to be in a romantic relationship. Nancy needs to learn how to take care of herself in a way that isn't detrimental to everyone around her, and she needs to acknowledge her pain and work through it instead of letting it run her. Nancy and Therapy that's my OTP LMAO

nOTP

Ronance in most instances. I think it can be done, but it's rare that I actually like it

random headcanon

Nancy met Barb in ballet (they both have ballet related things in their house) Barb was terrible at it, and Nancy was really good, but they both tended to hide in the back and talk about books they were reading instead of paying attention.

unpopular opinion

Nancy's selfish. Yep I said it. Nancy is focused on what Nancy wants and what Nancy needs to do to prove herself/feel better (even though she never really feels better because she never lets herself hurt. She just wants to fix it without feeling it). There is so many moments where I'm just like girl what are you doing!!!! Nancy is so crazy focused on getting justice for Barb that she ignores NDAs she signed? Like it is pure plot convenience that she and Jonathan weren't arrested/shot for the shit they did in s2. No way on earth that wouldn't have serious ramifications. She's so angry at being put down by the men at the paper (rightfully!) that she gets both her and Jonathan fired (not rightfully!) and then doesn't care when he is upset. She does not get that he can't lose his job because his family literally relies on his income. Nancy stays with Steve when she wants to be with Jonathan because she doesn't want to be alone, and then lets him blame himself for their relationship failing? She should have been honest that she didn't want him.

I don't mind Nancy being selfish! I honestly think it's a really good thing because it is at her core. I think that she can get to self-focused from selfish as she grows, and we see that as s4 evolves, but like I hate that no one is allowed to say anything that might be seen as critical of Nancy because no many people hate her. I love Nancy!! she's super interesting to me! But Nancy is selfish, which makes sense, and makes her stay interesting to me

song i associate with them

Way Down We Go by Kaleo and Duet from the Omori OST

favorite picture of them

NANCY WHEELER FUCKING BADASS SHE IS SO IM SO OH MY GOD THE BISEXUAL FURY SHES A GODDESS SHES SO COOL

[flip-flop-lover-will-byers]

Sorry I'm jumping on your post, op. I was having similar thoughts, from a different direction- Karen and Joyce

I was thinking about how differently they're perceived (and consequently how Mike/Will are perceived), and how much of their actual differences are just circumstantial. Fandom has a tendency to present the Wheeler family as a whole in the worst light, both because we're primed to do so with Nancy's "screw that" speech (nevermind that she was specifically talking about her parents' relationship being loveless....not the entire freaking family wtf), and because... Apparently Mike NEEDS to have ten different traumas to be sympathetic enough.

But honestly? Mike through the show is almost more spontaneously open to Karen (emotionally) than Will is to Joyce. His first reaction upon finding El is telling his mother. He doesn't coz El literally does not let him.

Not to say that Will and Joyce don't have a great relationship- they do. But Joyce isn't some perfect mother (she wouldn't be such a good character if she was) and Karen isn't a bad mother.

In the same season we have Joyce explicitly telling Jonathan that she feels guilty about not being around more because she's always working, and that she's gonna try to do better.

Will only opens up to Joyce in s2 when he's pretty much forced to. He opens up to Jonathan and Mike before that- in fact, the person Will is most open with, the person he depends on the most, is Jonathan consistently. Jonathan raised Will, and their behaviour shows that.

Mike seeks his mother for comfort at his lowest points. Without El telling Mike that it would put Karen in danger, he would have most definitely told her about El, thus pulling her into the plot in some capacity in S1.

If it were Mike who had been taken in S1, then you can bet he would have tried to contact Karen exactly how Will tried to contact Joyce. Duh. And of course, Karen would have moved heaven and earth to find him, exactly how Joyce did for Will. She would have yelled at Hopper, she would have given that classic "go to hell" to Brenner.

As mothers, Karen and Joyce are hella similar, and their differences are LARGELY due to the circumstances of the show- putting distance between Karen and her kids and bringing Joyce closer to hers. The other large difference between them is socio-economic- Karen is a stay-at-home mom, she has the time and resources to be present in her kids' daily life, and she is! Joyce doesn't, and it leads to Jonathan and Will forming an abnormally close unit.

Even freaking Ted, he's a conservative government bootlicker, but he's NOT abusive. He's made some ambiguous yet pointed statements, but we've seen Lonnie straight up try to profit off his child's death. Ted cares about his children- we've seen him taking care of Holly while every single other Wheeler was off doing shit. He complains, "our children don't live here anymore". He's too apathetic to reach out, he's entirely unrelatable to the rest of his family, he's 10x times more conservative- but holy shit, it takes a special kind of privileged audacity to conflate this with actual abuse. Ted is like, half the fathers of this world.

(This is pointed at the people who say that Mike's home life was as bad as Max/Will re: Lonnie)

(Also- it's funny that people will argue that Mike and Max are the same, but then turn around at the Mike-Ted parallels and say "yea! That's just there for laughs. That's just there to show how bad mvn is!")

But yea!! All this to say- the Wheelers are the most mid of Upper Middle class families. Their collective theme is conformity- which is by definition bound by the majority. They exist in the middle ground, unlike the Byers and the Mayfields.

I think, in trying to make Mike more uwu or tragic or sympathetic, we lose the core of his canon arc. He's never been abused, but he's seen abuse. He's never been the target of homophobic bullying, but his best friend has. Simply witnessing is enough, though. He witnesses, and he knows that he's been kept safe from it all by the Wheeler Normal-ness, and he leans into that safety.

Which is completely fine. It IS a choice you can sympathise with without changing his whole character. Sometimes conformity is the better choice, and he's the only party member who's actually in a position to MAKE that choice. Will never had a choice. Lucas didn't. Dustin didn't. El didn't. Max didn't. Only Mike does.

I don't think people appreciate the potential in that? People take it as an offense to suggest that Mike is somehow "less freaky/outcast" than his friends, but in truth, he's just the only one who can actually go under the radar.

(I like him going under the radar btw. Relatable invisible gay rep. Hidden in plain sight gay rep. Always-assumed-to-be-straight gay rep)

He tries, and it makes him so fundamentally unhappy. When he chooses to stop trying- it's not because he never had the choice, it's because he concluded that not conforming is just more rewarding.

But yanno. For any of that to matter, they actually need to....let him be him.

The party doesn't exist to give Mike depth.

Max isn't Mike.

No matter how much you say "same character different font," it won't make it true. Mike will never have Max's plot line. If the writers wanted to give Mike Max's arc, they would have written him differently--like Max.

It's mind boggling that Max can have a heart wrenching arc focused on her mental health, complex relationship with her abusive brother, and her intense guilt, then people go: "Wow, that's great, but doesn't that remind you of Mike?!? Vecna's after Mike!!" *clapping seal noises*

Let's strip away some important social differences in Max and Mike's backgrounds.

Class (low income vs. upper-middle class income)

Family life (verbally + physically abusive vs. emotionally distant household)

California vs. small town Indiana cultural differences (more liberal vs. more conservative)

Socialization (Mike is the leader of a large friend group vs. Max spending majority of her time with Lucas then El)

So: if we remove most of their environment, then Mike and Max are more similar (snarky, independent, and prickly). I guess we're going to ignore their other conflicting traits, for example: Max's skepticism vs. Mike's optimistic lean, Max's introversion vs. Mike's extroversion, self-confidence (S2-S3 Max has greater self-confidence than Mike, S4 both are low), communication styles (Max: straightforward, Mike: abstract).

Has anyone here heard of the "nature vs. nurture" debate on what determines a person's characteristics? Yes, no, maybe so? To cut to the chase, the answer is both. People are beholden to their personality, as well as their environment (their social lives). A huge part of being a human are your relationships to others (family, friends, pets, coworkers, enemies, places, role models etc). Writers make characters three-dimensional by fleshing out these connections and having them impact the narrative.

If you have to ignore how the writers wrote two extremely different backgrounds to justify your interpretation, you're wrong. If you're only favoring S4, because you think--besides Max--Mike had the hardest time in high school, you're also wrong. Newsflash! High school was shitty for everyone.

In their introduction to The Piggyback script, the Duffers wrote:

Like a lot of people, high school was a very challenging time for us — you’re facing the pressure of figuring out your future at the same time you are trying to fit in, or even just trying to understand who you are. It’s a lot to take on at that age and it can leave you feeling hopeless, like there’s no end to the uncertainty in sight. This emotional truth was at the center of Vecna. In many ways a physical representation of anxiety and depression, he is an evil force that leeches on youth’s frailty. The devil on your shoulder, the dark whisper in your ear.

The S4's main plotline centered on Max to discuss the above (since she was constructed to be the most vulnerable character), but please remember: everyone in the party was struggling.

During counseling, Ms. Kelly pointed out Max had a C in English and a C-minus in Spanish. You know who else had bad grades? Dustin (D-minus in Latin), Mike (C in Spanish), and El (failing Math).

Ms. Kelly also questioned Max's poor sleeping habits, headaches, and nightmares. No one else in the party experienced these symptoms, because Vecna didn't target them. End of story.

Ms. Kelley pointed out that Max wasn't being truthful. You know who else wasn't being truthful? Mike, Will, El, and Lucas (to an extent).

Does that mean that everyone is going to have Max's plot line in S5? No, because that is an erroneous conclusion. Each character has their own trajectory. The beauty of the party is: their different skills and backgrounds complement one another, allowing them to successfully collaborate and--ultimately--achieve victory.

Please stop cherry-picking pieces of Max's arc in order to satisfy your urge to cobble together a more palatable Mike. It's time to interrogate why you insist Mike is your favorite, when you actually want him to become Max (As El said, "Why do you lie?").

If you come away from this thinking I hate Mike, the call is coming from inside the house.

[funkylittlewitch]

they’re so powerful......mwah!!

[positivelybyler]

so i've been seeing ppl talking about finn wolfhard "love songs" playlist on spotify and how he made it for byler. (he also made a playlist for his character richie so making this wouldn't be out of the blue for him).

i honestly thought it was a stretch at first but after further analysis... it's too perfect to not relate to byler (unless finn wolfhard has a love triangle situation going on himself).

anyways here's my analysis of each song on the playlist! (i'll only be talking about 6/7 because one of the songs is in an east asian language that i do not understand!!)

1. Boys Don't Cry - The Cure

so the first song on the playlist is boys don't cry which has been talked about and analysed multiple times because we see a poster of the song in wills bedroom. and although people say that it's will song, i believe that it relates to mike more! especially in the lyrics:

I would say I'm sorry if I thought that it would change your mind.

But I know that this time I have said too much, been too unkind.

we all know that mike wheeler says stuff he doesn't mean to (evident in the s3+4 byler fight) and he has a hard time apologizing. not only that but we don't really see mike getting emotional! will isn't afraid to cry but mike is. anyways this song has been analyzed lots already so moving on to #2

2. Let Her Go - Mac Demarco

i'm not gonna lie, when i first saw this song i was shocked to the very core because of how much it realtes to the mikewillel love triangle. the first lyrics being:

Tell her that you love her, if you really love her.

But if your heart just ain't sure, let her know.

obviously mike can't tell her that he loves her because he doesn't even know if he truly loves eleven or not. (and when mike did end up telling eleven that he loves her, there is obvious hesitation coming from mike and even el didn't believe him).

Growing by the hour, love just like a flower.

But when the flower dies, you've got to say goodbye and let her go.

hello???? literally the flowers that mike got her in ep2 and then we see the same flowers dead in the last episode. (not to mention this is when el hasn't talked to mike much in a couple days and their relationship is rocky). so is mike finally going to let el go?

3. Lovesong - The Cure

ok this song is absolutely adorable just look at the lyrics:

Whenever I'm alone with you, you make me feel like I am home again.

Whenever I'm alone with you, you make me feel like I am whole again.

Whenever I'm alone with you, you make me feel like I am young again.

Whenever I'm alone with you, you make me feel like I am fun again.

at the beginning of season 4, we see mike being closed off and definitely not like himself. he was a shitty friend to will at the airport and rink-o-mania because el was by his side. but once el had to leave to regain her powers, we started seeing more of the old mike as he spent time alone with will. i assume that will makes mike feel like he's home again even though they're in a completely different state and he makes him feel young again just how they were in season 2 (especially with the crazy together parallel in ep9).

However far away, I will always love you.

However long I stay, I will always love you.

i mean, come on even when they were in different states, they still loved each other! sure things were rocky the first few days mike came to california but then they went right back to being inspeperable!

4. Africa - Toto

this song has been used before in stranger things specifically in season 1 episode 1 in a stancy scene. and although there are multiple meanings behind this song, the more accurate one to our situation is "This song tells the story of a man who comes to Africa and must make a decision about the girl who comes to see him." in this case, mike comes to california and has to make a decision about el.

Hurry boy, she's waiting there for you.

It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you.

we all know that el is infatuated with mike and is the first to meet him at the airport and she has clearly been waiting for spring break in order to see him again. as for the second line, mike and el are obviously bonded by trauma which makes it so difficult for the pair to break up. mike will have to go through a lot in order to end things with el in order to be with will.

I seek to cure what's deep inside, frightened of this thing that I've become.

we all know that mike has internal struggles and lashes out at people (especially will) when he didn't mean to.

Gonna take some time to do the things we never had.

and when they both find out that their love is requited, then what!!

5. Inbetween Days - The Cure

this song is about having to choose between two people, and feeling guilty because you don't know which one to choose! basically a love triangle.

And I know I was wrong, when I said it was true.

That it couldn't be me and be her in between without you.

those lyrics are basically this image. i really like this random person's interpretation of the song cause its so accurate: "it's the story of a guy being in now stagnant relationship with a girl but pining for someone from the past that he parted ways with, now he's realizing that the current relationship couldn't work without this someone always getting in the way." it perfectly describes their love triangle.

i also want to add how the singer is talking about apologizing for saying the wrong thing to his current girlfriend (which is very mike wheeler core) but based on what we saw in the last episode, el isn't taking any of mikes shit! (good for her).

6. Lost Weekend - The So So Glos

ok so i actually love this song, i have it in my playlist lol and i never realized how much it applied to byler!! this song is generally about youth and growing up with someone.

You and I, riding high, in a landfill building castles.

castle byers, obviously and i'd like to think that mike and will spent a lot of time in their youth there together!

And we can't speak, cause we're in too deep.

We've grown up eighty-sixed and ended up like this.

clearly mike and will aren't willing to confess their love for each other (and this is sort of on the nose) because they're so deeply in love with one another. also, eighty-sixed is slang for being thrown out or discarded which could relate to mike and will being heavily bullied when they were younger (which is canon). and then they went to each other for comfort and continue to go to each other to this day.

anyways that's all of the analysis i have in me! even if this isn't true, it was still fun to look at the lyrics of these songs and try to figure out how they relate to byler lol (and if it is true then finn wolfhard is one bold man).

[willel]

This post doesn't have to do with Will, El, or the Byers but....

The writing for Mike at this point is really bothering me like... it feels like he doesn't have any major character conflicts except El or Will.

I LOVE what they did with Lucas. Lucas trying to balance being cool and loving sports vs loving dnd and being a nerd. It's not even a particularly selfish thing either, he was doing the whole "get popular" thing for his friends sake too, at least in his mind. Of course he has this thing going on with Max, but it's also just him trying to be there for her whether they're dating or not.

To him, she is as much as part of the crew as Dustin and Mike. Y'know? Seems to me after season 3 Lucas really learned his lesson and does not do the "ignore my friends for my girlfriend" shtick anymore.

Dustin has always had stuff going on other than girls so I don't even really need to discuss it.

Will has never had anything going on with girls and in reality his character almost entirely depends on himself/his mother so.

Even JONATHAN, a super neglected guy has SOMETHING going on other than Nancy. Struggling with his school decisions. His love life or his family life, location location location. This has always been his struggle but I do enjoy it. Just wish there was more of it. I'm just glad it's not entirely dependent on Nancy, but split between Nancy and his family stuff.

But... Mike....??? What is Mike struggling with other than his girlfriend? Sure his family is annoying but...? That conflict with being a nerd or being popular was quickly washed away by Eddie and immediately became irrelevant as he picked dnd over basketball and has not shown any signs of remorse or second thoughts.

For season 2 and season 3, Mike has had NO inner conflict that is only about him. Like, I will literally go a mile to pull stuff out of my ass to give a character the benefit of the doubt, but there is nothing.

Nancy (his sister in case you forgot) is similar to Jonathan as her character is about her future, her education, her not wanting to end up like her parents. All of that also balancing out with her love life.

But Mike doesn't seem to care about that conflict at all. It doesn't even seem like he notices it. Friendship??? As we can see in season 4 Mike is sorta willing to let a friendship crumble in favor of his love life... which already happened in season 3. And once again, he doesn't seem to care about friendships unless El is out of the picture which is very bothersome to me and shows lack of growth. Or depth?

Something is just... missing. I don't understand it.

Where is Mike Wheeler's arc? What drives him other than love for El? Where is his core?

[faeryworlds]

alwaysthesitter​:

“You never stopped loving me?” That alone had been a shock, though Steve didn’t want to bring up everything from their past at this moment. He knew it was a conversation they were going to have eventually if this was going to work. Both of them had made their mistakes, and though a lot had been pushed aside in order to forgive quickly due to literal lives being at stake, he knew there was some resentment still lingering. At least on his end. Nancy Wheeler had been unable to tell him that she loved him after Tina’s party and the ‘bullshit’ incident. To hear that she had ever loved him at all, yet alone never stopped, was shocking him to his core.

Instead he was just listening to her, being a good listener and actually hearing her, unlike in the past. Her hand in his, he gave it a squeeze as she spoke, giving a nod of understanding. “Seems like a lot of the men in Hawkins suck at communication.” He knew that Jonathan had grown distant, though part of him felt bad for the guy. It seemed like a lot had been happening in California that they didn’t even fully know about, and he recalled hearing Jonathan telling Nancy at the reunion that it hadn’t been safe to contact her. Yet Mike had flown out there just fine, so he didn’t know how much of that was true.

“Is it bad that I feel bad for Jonathan? Just a little. I mean, kind of. Not really.” He laughed lightly, shaking his head. In his eyes, Jonathan had stolen the love of his life right out from underneath him. But he knew he couldn’t be all upset with Jonathan for that, because it took two to tango, and Nancy had made that choice. Just like right now, she was choosing him. Hopefully meaning it this time. His lips curled into a smile at her comment of wanting him romantically, his free hand moving gently to her cheek, large palm resting over her pale skin. “….am I allowed to kiss you right now or is that too soon into our new relationship?” Slightly teasing, but also incredibly serious.

She was aware that she was unable to tell him she loved him back then at Tina’s party and now here she is telling him she never stopped loving him. And she doesn’t really want to elaborate of how she never stopped loving him when she hasn’t really told him before. It was just complicated. There’s no reason to bring up the past right, it’s about the present about how they feel now. She wouldn’t jump in the water for anyone like she did when she jumped right in the water to save Steve in the Upside Down. “Maybe it’s a Hawkins men thing. Not being good in communicating to their girlfriends.” It was for the best that she broke up with Jonathan and she didn’t wanted to string him along when she has feelings for Steve. That wouldn’t be fair to him, and well he had been distant and nancy just wasn’t having it. 

“I knew you didn’t feel bad for him.“ Nancy wasn’t even aware at first that Steve still had feelings for her until he told her about it, which she didn’t saw coming, now here they are actually being back together. Who would have thought that, not her that’s for sure. Seeing that smile of him made her smile. The moment she felt his hand onto her cheek she closed her eyes for a brief moment before she opened them again to look at him. 

Stepping even closer towards him. “Steve Harrington asking for permission to kiss me. There I thought you would just kiss me without asking.” She teased him as she laughed. “You are definitely allowed to kiss me right now.” A small grin appeared on her face. “Just to clarify, this does mean we’re back together right?” Knowing very well that it means they are just she couldn’t help to tease him a bit more. 

[wibble-wobbegong]

okay i never check the tag or confessionals so im only experiencing via mutual posting but i cannot believe there are people who don’t think mike is a dynamic and complex character. MIKE WHEELER.

i’d say he’s literally the most complex character in the show. i know i say this all the time but mike isn’t the embodiment of any singular experience because he’s written so human. he’s got a strong will and he’s hard pressed to give up hope. he’s bad at talking to other people and expressing himself and people will follow him anyway because they see his determination and love and it inspires them too. like that’s LITERALLY what happened in season 1. mike’s moral compass leads him to think violence is wrong unless it’s in self defense against violence which is why he reacted so harshly at rink-o-mania. mike admires when violence is used to protect but he’s afraid when violence is used to harm first and that’s absolutely a result of troy and probably lonnie.

mike has an incredibly complicated relationship with el that cannot be divided into whether or not he loves her. he cares about her so deeply that it’s practically love but it isn’t familial or platonic or romantic but something else that came as a result of the things they went through together, good and bad. he wants to be her friend because he isn’t. he doesn’t have a relationship with her but he knows that at her core she’s very similar to him; protective and loving and strong willed. he admires her! but they don’t have a relationship. he wants a friendship, but he has to unpack a lot of his current perception about el and detach himself from her.

mike’s relationship with lucas and will and eddie and dustin and max are all like this too. he has complicated and different relationships with everybody. he’s angry with lucas for joining the basketball team, part of him understands why and part of him wants to be like lucas too. he’s angry with himself about it. he’s constantly being pulled apart in his relationship with will, having built a completely different perception of what he thinks will is saying versus what will thinks he’s saying and it’s caused massive communication issues and neither mike nor will are at fault for it. mike absolutely had a crush on eddie and wanted to accept himself the way eddie did, and i’d say a lot of his admiration had to do with the way eddie pulled him out of his isolation problem after the byers moved. eddie’s death is gonna crush him. mike and dustin haven’t gotten much time together over the course of most of the show but right now dustin is probably the only person who has any idea what’s actually going on in mike’s head because dustin has become a safe place. dustin still wants to play dnd, so mike has someone to lean on without being terrified of exposing himself while he regains confidence in his freak status. dustin and him don’t have deep, hard conversations but mike does tell things to dustin and wants him to do the same. mike’s relationship with max in s2 and s3 literally deserve their own post. like that dynamic is deeply rooted in mike’s insecurities and grief

mike himself has intense struggles with his mental health because of how aware he is. he understands his own feelings and what they mean, he has known he’s had feelings for will for a long time and has struggled with it constantly. he’s struggled with his sexuality because he’s aware he’s gay and can’t love el the way he’s supposed to no matter how hard he tries. he’s aware that he can’t stop loving will no matter how hard he tries. he’s aware of the fact that he looks at boys and never looks at girls because he’s been aware of who he is since at least post s2 and he’s tried to fix it and can’t. he started accepting himself and then the entire thing with s4 was him thinking will was returning his feelings and he was ready to break up with el at sbp and pursue that friendship but then he felt like he had to give el what ‘she’ needed and erased so much of that progress

mike was way too willing to walk off a cliff for dustin. you’re gonna look me in the eye and tell me the boy who set up that sauna plan in under five minutes, who managed to understand a hivemind he’s never directly interacted with, who managed to discover an alternate dimension just to save the people he loves couldn’t find a better way to diffuse that situation??? that he couldn’t even try? the mike we know would never have given into something like that so easily if he didn’t want to. part of him was doing it to save dustin, but he could’ve saved dustin another way. mike had just lost will, el, and lucas. he puts pressure on himself to save everybody and he ended up losing everyone and now dustin is in danger too. he needs to save dustin or else he’ll feel like a complete failure of a person. it’s about saving dustin, but it’s also about the fact that he doesn’t see value in himself outside of other people

i can’t even list everything here but mike is SO complicated. he’s hope and he’s tragic and he’s human. people just don’t want to admit that they refuse to try and understand difficult storylines and make you look outside of the norm you’re forced to look through. it’s about defying norms until you have to defy your own norms.

[stellariumcircus]

on will's painting + being the heart

obviously the literal depiction of will putting a literal heart on mike, the object of his affection, is cute and romantic and all BUT

i've seen a lot of people joke about how it's silly to call mike the heart when he really is just like 🧍‍♂️ a lot of the time

which is funny on a surface level but i think we've got to read the subtext here.

i don't think we're supposed to hear "mike is the heart" and hear "mike is the most important and action driving character of the group".

i think it's supposed to remind the audience (and mike himself) of who mike is as a character, especially during a time where his character arc has seemingly gone static from an outside perspective.

the painting says, literally: mike wheeler fights with his heart. mike wheeler fights by picking flowers, by jumping off cliffs, by biking in the rain. mike wheeler fights for and because of the people he loves.

that's the core of who he is. it also plays big part of where will's love for him comes from. mike cares deeply for the people he loves, and will sees that about him. it's a quiet way of fighting, so we're tempted to see him as passive. will sees it even when the audience doesn't.

we also see this mindset directly referenced in the song "being the heart". mike being the heart isn't an action, it isn't a speech, it isn't just leadership: it's an identity.

the painting is obviously a cute romantic gesture but more so will's way of reminding his best friend of who his true self is in a time where mike has become distant. because while will is obviously frustrated and in love, he is also still mike's best friend and can recognize when mike's going through a tough time. remember, true sight.

this is also a big clue in foreshadowing where mike's character will go in s5. driven by his heart into bravery, physically putting himself between danger and the people he loves. mike, the heart, between his friends and the monster. that's what we see in this painting.

this also makes me very concerned for mike's safety in s5. mike may be awkward, mike may not know how to navigate interpersonal relationships, but he isn't and has never been a coward. mike is not above sacrificing himself in a heartbeat if it means protecting his friends & family.

[shares-a-vest]

Alright, let's see if I can craft something mildly coherent about my precious boy Eddie Munson

Lengthy post (and spoilers) under the cut.

I talk about 'The Piggyback' contradicting some core elements of ST and character development, the use of Eddie throughout the season and what happens with him and the epilogue of the ep.

Why Exactly Did He Need A Redemptive Arc?

I can't help but see Eddie's death as a redemptive 'dying as the hero' arc. Why was this crucial for this character? The only people who disliked him was Jason and his friends - and they are antagonists of the Hawkins Squad throughout the season. Aaaaand they are positioned as bad people (and they got much worse in the last ep - the stuff with Jason and Lucas was fucked up). It's not like Eddie had to redeem himself to the Hawkins Squad either. They protected him throughout the season and then he jumped in Lover's Lake with the rest of the Fruity Four towards the end of Vol.1. The 'he needs to believe he's a hero'-moment already happened in the conversation with Steve in the Upside Down. Why repeat that and have him die? He never did a 'bad' thing - people only thought he did and we (the audience) knew his side/perspective, it's not like his character was ever up for debate.

Punishing 'The Freak' is a Contradiction

This is obviously where we get into queerbaiting territory. Eddie was a queer-coded character. His last moment with Steve was clearly going to be something directly to him but then he hesitated and instead just spoke about Vecna. I'll die on that hill. Eddie dying also completely ignores the countless parallels with Robin, an openly gay character.

What I think I hate the most about him dying was that we know that he isn't this evil 'freak' that the town and Jason label him. He uses 'freak' multiple times in a queer-coded manner - or perhaps just in an attempt to own the moniker for his own sake. But the season was so overtly critiquing the Satanic Panic of the 1980s through Eddie and Hellfire so I find it this MASSIVE contradiction to then kill the every character the Duffers are using to criticise/explore a damaging moment in American culture. I find it even more fucked-up seeing as Eddie is queer-coded because the obsession with the Satanic Panic (something 'happening' in US society that completely made up) happened simultaneous to the AIDS/HIV crisis (which was a very real issue).

I don't mean to sound like I need to be babied through tv, but for me ST has the whole good vs. evil in a fantasy or sci-fi manner running through it. And Eddie was never bad. Bad people (if we can categorise into that binary for a moment) thought he was bad/evil etc. And the town still thinks that, more so now that the 'murders' are news. Example: you can't tell me the dumb Wheeler parents knew who Eddie was beyond Mike talking about him (as the cool leader of Hellfire) and yet, now they are at home watching the tv seeing him portrayed as a murderer.

Throughout this series, people's differences are their strengths, they are embraced through stuff like the found-family trope and they find goodness in each other and FOR EACH OTHER. We literally saw that in 'The Piggyback' with the Jonathan/Will exchange and also El's whole arc of rejecting both Vecna's and Brenner's influences on her power. Mike's love for her (in terms of his and the party's more pure intentions about her powers) literally becomes the very element that resolves this season. I find it sooooooooo contradictory to be continually using these elements and peppering in other similar media (Eddie loving Lord of the Rings) throughout the season and then just completely go against that in this instance. I cannot see any reason why this was done.

The 'Two Days Later' is Dismissive

As more time passes and I consume more television, the more I think flashing forward as a conclusion/epilogue to a series or season within a single episode positively suck. I'm actively pissed off about the epilogue to 'The Piggyback'. You cannot tell me that the Hawkins Crew wouldn't have recovered Eddie's body, the fact that we didn't get that (or at least a reunion between Steve and Dustin) is soooooooo weird to me. I almost feel like at the last-minute Eddie was kinda cast aside. In these last two eps in general I found the pacing to be off where scenes with El and Brenner then El and Vecna to be excessively long rather than building tension (not saying I dislike El, I'm talking about the writing).

Possibly the biggest problem here was that there was no acknowledgement of any Hellfire members about Eddie other than the (genuinely touching) exchange between Dustin and Wayne. But then that was it. Where was a scene of Mike finding out? And to be a Steddie/Fruity Four feral for a moment, there was also NOTHING from Steve and Robin about him? The two people who totally embraced him into the crew and fought and plotted alongside him.

[maxmayfieldirl]

Okay so like, here's the things I think/want to happen in vol 2

Before I say anything: I am well aware that it's merely 4 hours so I know not all of this is gonna happen. I suppose this is also things I want in s5 as well.

Starting off strong with the confirmed deaths!! Who it will be we do not know yet but I have some thoughts.

Of course I'm sure y'all have seen me mention the Wheeler's quite often. I am mostly convinced it will be one of the Wheeler's who dies. I strongly believe it could be Karen solely bc of her poster--or Nancy but Nancy has been my favorite since s1 so I really hope it's not her.

As for the other deaths, Eddie bc of his string of bad luck lately. I mean. He was literally accused of murder, kinda hard to come back from that.

Max bc well. Vecna. That's my only reasoning really. That and she mentioned Kate Bush loosing her magic powers... Normally it would seem like a regular piece of dialogue but like. It's stranger things we're talking about.

Other potential deaths but I don't feel strongly enough about them:

Steve bc he gets the shit beat out of him every season so he's not far off from death. I don't have much to say other than its just a gut feeling. Something bad is gonna happen to Steve, he's a fan favorite.

Dustin, why? I dunno, a gut feeling. He told Steve something along the lines of "if you die, I die". Also he hasn't really had a lot of personal run ins with the upside down. Too good for too long I say. I hope I'm wrong though, stay good Dustin

Jason bc he's so insistent on this all being the work of devil and his gf literally just died so why wouldn't vecna pay him a visit? He's so invested in this, he's seen a death with his own eyes he just can't seem to see the truth. It'd definitely be interesting

I am hoping for a mutual Mileven break up, I just. I like them as friends. They worked together so much better as friends. We see it in s1, they get along so well but as they start dating it just. They're not really getting along? They do but not the way they did before.

Of course I need sibling interactions!! Byers family (which seems to happen!!! Woo!!!), Wheeler family, Sinclair family!!!! I need it!!

A Mike and Nancy hug!! Them literally acknowledging each other's existence and not arguing please!!!! I need it!!

Big Brother Lucas™️ protecting Erica. Like I just want them to interact for more than a minute. Like a sibling moment without others. A soft sibling moment!! They bond!!! A hug...? Come on Duffers!!!

Byler. I don't need them to get together this season. I just need them to interact more. I just yeah. They can get together next season. Yeah

Core 4 party members literally just existing in the same room together we've been robbed. I miss their friendship, they seem to get divided a lot.

Flashbacks!! I want to know more about the pasts of the characters and the upside down. What were they like years ago, before it all happened? What is the full story of the upside down? Maybe just a little tease.

El and Hop reunite, an extremely emotional one too. If not that than El at least has to find out Hop is alive. Please she needs something good in her life.

I know I've strayed away from theories but I feel like it will end on a cliffhanger and pick up from s5. I'm pretty impatient so I don't want this but it would be interesting. I believe it build up to everyone going in the upside down and fighting their very last battle there. My guess is they start s5 with the final battle there and the last couple episodes is the aftermath.

I know the Duffers mentioned a time skip but they've lied about other things so.... Plus it'd be pretty cool.

I am 100% fully convinced the final battle will be everyone against vecna in the upside down.

Maybe Hawkins will be swallowed whole by the upside down. The show seems to be leaning towards the end of the world type thing but maybe it's just me.

I also wanna know what Max's letters said. And what Erica found under Lucas's bed, I believe that's what it was.

It's getting late and I'm getting a little too tired to think of other things rn so I'll leave this here, feel free to add your opinions and what not. Do be respectful about it.

If you'd like to hear more things like this, my ask box is open ^_^

[prime-catra]

Literally the only way that you can like Mike Wheeler in s4 is to believe that he’s suffering some kind of sexuality crisis/is falling out of love with El, some other major secret that we don’t know ab is affecting him, or that something major is going to happen with the plot. 

In S1, mike and el were almost like the two leads (and definitely the main characters of the younger kids), with el driving the plot forward bc of her powers/connections and mike driving the plot forward emotionally with his relationships/emotions etc. In S2 this is continued (albeit a little more blurred as Mike gets involved more with the lab and El strikes out bc of her feelings/relationship with Hopper and Mike) but ultimately those two are still the ‘core’ of the show, emotionally or otherwise. In S3, the two are finally actually together (unlike in S1 when they didn’t know each other that well), and thus the rest of the characters get more time to shine (Dustin especially as will also had importance in S2). Even though Mike and El take a backseat in being the most ‘connected’ to the lab/to the other characters, they still are important, especially in the party. 

And in S4, el is still hugely important to the plot/tied to the lab, but for the first time ever Mike is NOT the heart of the show. This had been leading up since s3, when Mike was too wrapped up in El to focus entirely on the other people, but this is the first time we’ve seen mike really suffer emotionally/ be the ‘bad guy’ in a relationship outside of his relationship with el. To have this drastic character shift from someone who was the heart of the show(/the party) to just this asshole (aka regular teenage boy) means that something major is going down — either with him, or with the show. 

In show the duffer brothers chalked up this major character shift to mike not being ready to say ily; assumed to be bc of his parent’s relationship, but not explicitly stated. If this is the case, then I’d hope that they address it more explicitly in S5, especially bc it seems that Karen (and holly?) are going to be more important. If this is the case, then it means that the entirety of Mike + el’s relationship has been built on a loose foundation, and so s5 might reflect s1 (like the duffer’s said) in terms of el and mike ‘restarting’ their relationship. It would also make sense that Mike is finally starting to really show the signs of his family dynamic at home as he goes through puberty and changes etc.

AND, if this shift is also a reflection of the show, which I believe it should be, then I think that we should be maybe more happy about s5? Mike has always been the emotional core of the show in some capacity, so the fact that he was in turmoil in s4 reflected how jancy and Lumax, the only other two well-established ‘long term’ ships in the show (except for maybe jopper) were also having relationship issues (also seen in s3). Now that mike’s thing has been semi-resolved, hopefully that means that there won’t be too many relationship issues in s5??

It can also be seen as the other way around, in that mike’s inner turmoil is only reflecting the way relationships will continue to fraction as the action ramps up in s5, to the point where even the emotional core of the show isn’t as empathic and kind as he used to be

(If it’s because of a sexuality crisis (which I really doubt will be the case in canon but idk), then the ily thing hits even harder and the comp het etc etc is self explanatory— and if it continues in s5 (esp in terms of mike/will), then it could be a reflection of s1 w mike ‘finding’ will in a new light?)

[post-modern-prometheus]

I was gonna ask you what the terrible opinions on our dearest children that have you so mad are but then I realised that really would be asking you to vague people lmao. You talked about people getting character 'fundamentals' wrong and all I really wanna know (since your takes are always SO GOOD), what are these 'fundamentals' that you wish more people understood? TALK TO ME ABOUT MY KIDS I MISS THEMMM

yeah i’m not gonna vague post but i saw such a horrible take on mike the other day and i was like. holy fucking shit what are you on. technically that’s vague posting but i’m talking about my best boy rn real quick. and no. it’s not gonna actually be quick.

mike is an emotional person. he’s got all these big and loud and confusing feelings inside of him. but the one that tends to find it’s way to the forefront of his mind the most is… love. mike, at his core, is just someone who loves his friends. and- in a way that is so similar to el which in it of itself is an interesting characterization that i might talk more about later bc i have mentioned it before- that can be dangerous because when people say love is blind, they were talking about mike wheeler blindly throwing himself into dangerous situations to protect the ones he loves.

one thing thing that almost pisses me off is when i see people act like mike doesn’t… like his friends? bc quite literally what the fuck. what the fuck. a lot of mileven shippers do this but to be frank, just as many byler shippers do it too. and as much as i’d like to keep shipping out of this discussion, i can’t, because mike’s a character who’s role has been diminished to “el/will’s boyfriend” both in the fandom spaces and the show. when the byers and el moved away, i was kinda excited to see how mike was going to operate apart from will and el. but then he’s running away to see them which, okay. presents its own unique story and character opportunities. so it’s fine. but like. he’s just got so much love for will and el and lucas and dustin (and hopefully one day for max) that it physically pains me to see people say that he doesn’t.

i’ve mentioned before that we tend to forget the “best friends” part of best friends to lovers. mike and will weren’t always in love romantically. for most of their lives, they’ve been in love platonically and that connection grew into what we see. i don’t even think the romantic feelings started until season two. and it just goes to show how little worth people see in friendships and platonic relationships, when i see them try to diminish mike’s friendships to build up his romances.

i just love him a lot okay because his emotions are so messy and he doesn’t understand them but he needs everyone to know how he’s feeling even if he doesn’t want to so he’s loud about it in the most dishonest ways possible and yeah sometimes he’s a jerk and oh yes is he annoying but one day he’s gonna finally open up and we’re gonna truly see his heart and then it’ll all be over for you bitches.