#which i mean you really have to appreciate that kind of classic fandom posting

[astralleywright]

lots of people interpreting Ashton's "i want the gods to pray to us" devoid of the context of the lines directly before and after it, so here's the full quote: "in my darker moments, that's what i want, is i want to see them pray to us. i want to see them ask what we want." it was not intended to be a statement, but an admission, and it wasn't about worship at all; its about the fact that Ashton spent his whole life praying to any and all gods for some safety or healing or comfort and got nothing, only for them to finally bother to show up when he and the Hells became useful or inconvenient.

[damthosefandoms]

hello! 👋🏼

i think i followed you for your dc posts, but it’s always interesting to see the outsiders pop up on my dash! frankly, I have no clue what it is. is it a movie? a book? a musical? how did you get interested in it?

WELL welcome to my newest hyperfixation i'm losing my mind. you're probably not the only one here in this boat lmao.

so it's a book that was written & published by a teenage girl back in the 60s (she had a pen name bc people wouldn't take her seriously and everything, idk why that's important to know but it is), and i'm going to assume for the sake of this ask that you're either a) not american or b) went to private or catholic school because the outsiders is a very american public education thing to the greater population. like, it's in the curriculum for middle schoolers nationwide to read it at some point. it's about the class divide between poor kids and rich kids in 1960s oklahoma and i honestly don't think i appreciated it nearly enough ten years ago when i read it in school, because now i like, i get it. why it's a classic and why it's withstood the test of time for decades. i mean that shit got referenced in wizards of waverly place, you know? it's REALLY well-known. if you've ever heard the phrase "stay gold" this book is what they're referencing even if they don't know it.

it was also a movie in the 80s with a star-studded cast including (whether or not they're GOOD PEOPLE aside, you cannot argue that they are not household names) rob lowe, tom cruise, ralph macchio, patrick swayze to name a few. and now, they have a musical on broadway, and it won the tony for best musical (and i believe some other awards) this year AND is nominated for a grammy. i only got back into it bc i've been wanting to reread the book for a few years but then @sohotthateveryonedied (my favorite person on planet earth but if you followed me for dc you probably knew that she is my best friend LMAO she's not as active online anymore but trust this is still the case) AND another irl friend of mine made me listen to the soundtrack and i bought the book that day and i was sold lmao. it was so meant to be, i literally remember reading jally fanfiction back in middle school (which, the musical kind of portrays dally and johnny in a different light and as brothers but i will take what i can get. and also yknow. musical dally and book dally are completely different people with different backstories so i'm just compartmentalizing at this point. the fandom might crucify me for that one but i've literally been on this website too long to care).

tldr ponyboy from the phrase "stay gold ponyboy" that you may have heard before isn't straight and that's all you need to know <3

[legendarycollectorprincess]

Ship wars and why they don't let us appreciate and enjoy good characters. PART 5 (Second to last part).

Hello everyone! It's been a while. And I mean a long, long time.

I think the most current content I shared with you, which is part of the “Ship wars and why they don't let us appreciate and enjoy good characters” series of posts I've done, was PART 4: KANA’S DOWNFALL. I recall posting it when the second season of the anime of Oshi no Ko was announced. Wow!

Well, that partly explains why it took me a while to bring you this penultimate part.

That's right, there's only one last post left!

But first, there's something you should know.

Disclaimer

My intention has always been to address the absurd hatred that Oshi no Ko's characters, Kana Arima and Akane Kurokawa, have received from their respective haters. I have believed that my posts have always reflected my objectivity towards both characters. Some really sweet Kana/Akane fans have even let me know this through little messages (Love you guys!).

However, in the last few days, following the end of the Oshi no Ko manga, it seems that my publications are coming across the wrong way to a specific group of fans: Toxic Kana fans.

Due to the unsatisfactory treatment the character received at the conclusion of the story, I understand that some of her fans are defensive and may mistake some opinions for malicious criticism. However, I hope they know that my desire to keep writing about Kana (about the hatred her character receives) has been greatly reduced after…the not-so-kind messages I've received from this group (ironic, right?). For that reason, I'm afraid my last post will focus solely on Akane's character.

I know that the opinion of others should not affect me to write about something I like. And honestly, it's not out of fear either. Thank you, block option. It has to do with the fact that I am extremely conscious that whatever I write about Kana now, it will not feel genuine to me. And, therefore, to you guys.

I hope you understand.

Well, back to the post, now it's Akane's turn!

AKANE KUROKAWA: MANIPULATIVE MASTERMIND, CRAZY YANDERE AND THE THORN ON THE SIDE OF THE AQUAxKANA SHIP

Long title, I know.

But it does its job: to bring together the three big arguments (if we can call them that) that haters use to twist Akane's character. All to justify their hatred towards her. So, let's take a look at this, shall we?

Akane The Snake

As we all know, the second season of the Oshi no Ko anime started and culminated this year, bringing new fans who had the opportunity to continue the story with the amazing Tokyo Blade arc. Sadly, having new people in a fandom is always the perfect opportunity for haters to pass off their hateful comments as genuine observations.

“Akane manipulated Aqua by linking his trauma over Ai to Kana being an idol. He can't choose Kana because that would endanger her, so he chooses Akane.” Anonymous hate comment, about Akane on episode 12 of S2.

“Akane, you snake!” Anonymous hate comment, on Akane talking to Aqua about Kana in episode 12 of S2.

Oh yes, classic Akane, right? I mean, it's just so obvious that she would do something like that. After all, from the beginning she was introduced to the story as a manipulative character, so that action fits her very well, right?

*sigh

I don't know what hurts more. ¿The incredible, almost comical, lack of basic comprehension? ¿Or the fact that that scene, like many others, reflects Akane's concern for Kana, and yet haters decided to make it about the ship wars?

Akane was worried about Kana's safety and idol reputation. She knows from experience how terrible it is to be the target of public criticism. HER ENTIRE CHARACTER INTRODUCTION ARC WAS ABOUT THAT. So, that makes her exactly the right person to express these concerns to Aqua. She didn't do it to scare him. Or for him to choose her. In her entire dialogue, the words, “You should stay away from Kana and be with me instead” were never said by Akane. Quite the opposite, she even told him he should choose a private place to meet Kana next time.

If the person giving that advice to Aqua had been Melt, Taiki, or Gotanda, even the haters would have said: “You know what, that's a good point”. But because the person who did it was Akane, her haters can only assume that she did it because she wanted Aqua for herself.

In the end, staying away from Kana was Aqua's decision. There was no manipulation on Akane's part. Only haters' strong desire to blame Akane and make her out to be a manipulative person who will do anything to be with Aqua.

Yandere Akane

“She got the crazy yandere look! It's extremely bad for Aqua to have someone like her around.” Anonymous hate comment, about Akane on episode 5 of S2.

“How could she say she would kill someone? She's really f*cked up in the head. Crazy ass yandere b*tch”. Anonymous hate comment, about Akane on episode 5 of S2.

It is well known that Akane's reaction to Aqua's confession about his revenge plan was not to everyone's liking. And that's fine. Akane's reaction was not made to please all viewers. It was made for Aqua.

It was what Aqua's character needed after confessing a secret that he had been carrying alone for years. He didn't need someone who would invalidate his pain, or try to talk him out of it from a moral high ground. He just needed someone who understood why. Who understood HIM. And Akane did.

She understood that Aqua wanted to take revenge against HIS MOTHER'S MURDERER. Not a random person, but someone who caused Aqua immeasurable pain.

Akane said she would help Aqua to kill! She's crazy! It's psychopathic behavior! Anonymous hate comment, about Akane on episode 5 of S2.

If people hate Akane for trying to help Aqua get justice for a horrible crime, without using the legal system and with morally questionable methods, then they will have to hate most morally gray and anti-hero characters out there as well. Do they? No!

Because at the end of the day, her haters have no problem with this part of Akane's character, as many other characters in other media have it as well.

Joo Yeo Jung, from The Glory. A character known for being willing to kill for the female protagonist, and to help her take revenge on the people who harassed her in the past, using morally questionable methods. No love triangles. No ship wars. No hate.

Kaz Brekker, from Six of Crows. Character known for using morally questionable methods so that the girl he loves can have her freedom. No love triangles. No ship wars. No hate.

Jason Todd, from DC Comics. Directly unrelated to romance. Character known for fighting crime with methods such as torture and murder. Still, for many, he is their favorite Robin. No romance. No ship wars. No hate.

See what I mean? It all boils down to the fact that the haters couldn't stand Akane becoming close to Aqua. That she would move his heart by telling him that she would be by his side no matter what.

“Akane is so creepy, she’s giving yandere vibes!” Anonymous hate comment, about Akane on episode 5 of S2

Please, tell me I'm not the only one who have watched Mirai Nikki, and therefore knows what a true yandere is like.

Yuno Gasai, everyone? THE yandere character? No? Okay, what about Sonozaki Shion? Sayaka Miki?

The list I have can go on and on, but no matter how big it gets, Akane Kurokawa will never be on it.

[purlty23]

blue! just saw your post abt religious rhetoric & the fandom. do you have any specific instances or "takes" you could give us that youve seen? i know for myself peronally i have very little knowledge on religion as a whole, and could always stand to learn something ♡

Hello crow!!! Always a joy to see you in my notifs<3 Tbh, I’m not an expert either! I’ve only very recently in the past few years gained a big appreciation for theology of all sorts. Ghost was a huge part of the motivation for it, too. Most of the reading I’ve done has been though online resources. Here’s my personal library of PDFs! You can find the Satanic Bible, Greater and Lesser Keys of Solomon, and loads more (plus some misc fiction) I would say the biggest thing that I see in fan interpretations of Ghost and Ministry lore is confusing Catholic virtues with Satanic ones. I’m going to disregard a lot of modern Satanism for the sake of the fantasy lore that Ghost has here, since a lot of modern Satanism isn’t actually even related to religious worship of Satan as a figure, but of the values he as a character has held throughout time. Modern Satanism, especially Laveyan Satanism, is more about worship of the self. Ghost is really interesting because it puts Satanism into the same state of popularity as Catholicism in its lore. Imagine if the Vatican was Satan themed instead. That big. However, some people tend to act as if that means it holds the same values or rules as Catholicism, which simply isn’t true. Ghost Satanism falls more into old classical Satanism (devil worship, summoning, magicks, etc etc), which means it likely does ascribe to the biblical story, same as Catholics do but on the opposite side. While Catholics repent and avoid sin, those who follow the religion in Ghost would STRIVE for sin, and encourage those kinds of actions in order to appease Satan and grow chaos, disorder, and ruin throughout humanity. Where Catholicism has made a name for itself through fear, shame, and the threat of exocommunication, the Ministry would likely value confidence, doing what it takes to reach your goals, and the uglier sides of human nature. Classical Satanism is a bloody affair, after all Of course, all of this can differ depending on how you see the plot of Ghost. Does the Ministry value these things, and if they do, do they act on it? Was Sister’s murder of the Papas in line with these values, and if not, are there newer ideas of what’s pious under Copia’s reign? It’s difficult to say, but one thing can be said for sure.

Ghouls would not abide by these values. By any values but their own, likely. Demons and the undead aren’t known for being particularly good at following rules TL;DR: When puritan culture and ways of thinking derived from shame, religiously motivated fear, and doing the ‘right’ thing are placed onto these characters it doesn’t really make sense. It’s important to ask yourself where your thoughts are coming from, especially if you’ve been raised in a highly religious background. (In fact it’s important to ask yourself where ALL thoughts and opinions you have come from in order to fight bias, societal constructs, and ESPECIALLY prejudices against others and against even yourself)

[stylinsoncity]

Sorry if this ask is a little long. I’m going to be a little cheesy here :’)

I am an extremely avid reader: I’ve read literary classics and trashy BookTok romances and dark political satire books and NOTHING, I mean NOTHING makes me as excited to read than when I see you updating on AO3. I used to tell myself that I was just new to the fandom and getting into reading fics about my favorite artists and THAT’s why I downloaded CAYA and SEL and The Wonderlands onto my Books app where I would just reread and reread and reread. I’ve memorized some of your words at this point. Like when you’re rewatching your favorite sitcom and you’re ready to recite the next line of dialogue hahaha

I just read the first chapter of The Thrill of It All and I DEVOURED it. I reread some sentences out loud, slowly, because they were written so beautifully, with such diligence and care. I realized that moments like that are why I liked reading so much in the first place. Even though it was only around 6000 words, I’m already so amazed by the characterization and the way you’ve set the romantic and moody vibe already in the chapter.

I’m writing this ask because I went through some of your Tumblr posts and I can tell that you’re putting a teeeeeny bit of pressure on yourself to finish your works in progress and to post the ABO fic and to edit CAYA for publishing and you’re also navigating the fandom’s recent loss and all I wanted to say is that I trust your ability to put out magic like you always do, whenever it happens. You probably hear this all the time, but you have a very wonderful gift for writing. Take whatever time you need to update/write fics. I’ll patiently reread your magna opera until then! I’ll obviously miss your writing if you’re not continuing after these next two fics but please know that your works had a profound impact on me. Thank you for sharing the little corners of your beautiful mind! <3

okay well you successfully made me tear up!!

i struggle so much responding to things when they make me have Emotions because it becomes difficult to concisely express how i feel and what the message means to me. and then i worry about being wordy and ultimately not explaining myself well.

your perceptiveness and attention to my headspace is genuinely appreciated. i definitely do put quite a bit of pressure on myself. i'm anxious and a perfectionist which is an exhausting combination for so many reasons. i feel like everyone here is pretty understanding and very many are familiar with how long it takes me to update and how scatterbrained i can be. and it honestly does help for ppl to pay attn to those things. somehow it makes me feel safer being a little bit of a mess.

i'm also kind of coming to terms with having anxiety and adhd and accepting that this is how i create and that's okay. so i try to be nicer to myself but every now and then, i do get into a place of like wishing i could do a bit better, work a bit faster, etc... so what you've said honestly does help more than i can express. i really mean that! thank you so much D':

and for the lovely comments on my work... also thank you!! i'm so happy you're enjoying the thrill of it all so far.. you also just named all of my favorite children lol so i'm even more moved by this message.. i still feel like i'm not fully conveying just how moved i am!! but genuinely thank you for your support and patience and love! ily!!

[royedismyaesthetic]

Hi mod! I’ve found myself rereading some of my old favorite RoyEd fics recently after a long dry spell and I desperately need new material, but I checked the AO3 Ed/Roy tag and there haven’t been many enticing new updates in ages. Have you put a fic rec list out before, or have you read any good/underrated fics that you can recommend? 👀 They can be platonic or romantic, parental or postcanon friends/coworkers, smutty or genfic, none of it matters to me! I just really miss Roy & Ed so much 😩

(Also, since I’ve followed you for years and never interacted directly, hi! This is canonical-royed reaching out! I just want to tack on a brief addition that I’ve loved your blog for years and hugely appreciate your dedications to the RoyEd fandom by regularly updating this archive. Thanks for keeping the ship alive, you’re the bomb!!)

Hello hello! It’s been a while since I posted a rec list- I’ve been meaning to put somethin’ together, but *shrugs* I haven’t gotten around to it just yet. And I’m in the same boat- whatever their relationship is… I wanna read about it! So! Here’s a mishmash of (kind of new-ish) fics that I read lately (or at least, the ones that I can remember off the top of my head): 

numerics by butbythegrace - In this fic, people are born with the time and date of their death on their wrist. I read this yesterday, and I don’t know why I didn’t read it earlier, because it was so good! It’s romantic with sexual content. 

The mortifying ordeal of being known by applecrumbledore - It’s post-canon and Edward works at a hospital. The characterization was really good. Just a great read. Also romantic with sexual content. 

Everything I Remembered by hunters_retreat - Edward has amnesia. The ending was sweet, and I liked how their relationship developed. That was also romantic with sexual content…

The Quiet Ones by BeyondTheClouds777 - That was parental RoyEd. I liked reading about them being injured and in the hospital together. They had some sweet moments.  

And then in terms of older fics, I recently reread For Her For Him by nomdeplume1313 , a classic... I reread Mistakes by Sevlow which is a zombie fic... and then of course I read Save Me by Sevlow for the tenth time for some heavy Roy whump.

I hope you enjoyed my terrible descriptions…

(And I’ve seen you reblogging stuff lots of times before- thank you for your kind words and for following me! Your ask made my day!)

[whimsicallyenchantedrose]

Christmas Reruns 2023 Day 32: New Year New Town

Merry Christmas if you celebrate it and happy holidays if you don’t!  One of the things I love about Christmas is watching reruns of all the old classic Christmas movies–Christmas is a big time for nostalgia.  A few years ago, I decided to incorporate that tradition into my fandom life and post my CS holiday reruns.  So here you go!  Enough holiday (mostly) fluff to get you to New Year’s Day. (With a new story posting on Christmas Day.)

Rating: G

Word Count: 1868

Other chapters: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31

                                                                                                             A/N: Taking place sometime not long before grown up Henry calls for Hook, Regina and Emma to come to his aid in the alternate Enchanted Forest in 7x2, the residents of Storybrooke are living out their Happy Beginnings. With New Years approaching, Regina and Snow decide it’s time for a new town wide initiative. Emma and Killian use the occasion to make a special announcement of their own. 

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

“Good morning, Beautiful.  How was your night?”  Killian crooned softly as he leaned down to kiss Emma’s cheek, his hand softly caressing her shoulder.

Emma smiled as she slowly opened her eyes and turned over to meet her husband’s adoring gaze.  She’d introduced him to the song a few months ago, and ever since then, he’d woken her up to it nearly every morning.

They’d been married for five years now, and yet Killian could still make her stomach swoop like a teenager with her first crush.  It should be illegal for someone to be so romantic.

Emma sat up, ran a hand through her riotous curls, and then pulled Killian down for a long, slow kiss.  Life was good.  Life was really good.

Killian pulled away with a reluctant groan.  “I’ll never complain about a good morning greeting like that, my love, but if we continue on in this manner, we’ll never make the city council meeting on time.”

Emma groaned.  “You sure we can’t just skip it?  It’s New Year’s Eve; I’d much rather just stay here in bed with you.”

“Likewise darling,” Killian said with one more smacking kiss to her lips before he threw back the covers and got to his feet, “but you know neither Regina nor your mother would ever let us get away with that given their New Year, New Town initiative.”

Emma groaned again.  “Oh yeah, that.  Can’t wait”

About a month ago, just after Thanksgiving, Regina and Snow had called a special town council meeting.

“We’ve been Big Bad free for five years now,” Regain began without preamble, staring down each of the members of the council, “and you’d think that would mean our town would be nearly perfect, by now, but that is not the case.  I’ve still had to deal with the same petty squabbles as I’ve always had to, and I think it’s high time we do something about it.”

“Just what kind of squabbles we talking about ‘your majesty’?” Leroy asked, scowling fiercely

“Well, for one thing, I think we would all appreciate it if you’d lay off the threats of a lawsuit everytime someone eats the last of Granny’s bacon before you get there.”

“I have always tried to get as much bacon as I possibly could, and my brothers all know it”, Leroy argued.  “They double cross me at the diner counter, they know what to expect.”

Regina rolled her eyes and looked on the point of retorting back, which Snow quickly stepped in.

“The point is not to point fingers at any one person,” she said.  “The point is that I think we all have things about ourselves that we could change in order to become the best versions of ourselves.”

“So, Lady Snow, what particularly are you and the queen proposing?” Killian asked.

“As you all well know, the holiday season is just now ramping up, and before you know it, it will be Christmas and then New Years,” Snow explained.  “Regina and I were talking over tea one day, and we had a thought.  New Years is the time for resolutions.  What if we–all of us–the whole town–made new year’s resolutions to make our town a better, friendlier town?”

“We’ll call it the ‘New Year, New Town’ initiative,” Regina said in her typical no nonsense tone.  “It will, of course, be compulsory for all residents of Storybrooke.”

There was a general groan among the council as everyone began talking at once.  Regina banged her gavel, finally restoring quiet to the council room.

“While I personally don’t think New Year’s resolutions are a bad thing,” Archie said, “I do have questions about how it would work practically, though.  Surely you can see that forcing the town to make New Year’s resolutions is a bit heavy-handed, even for you.”

“Not happening, Sister,” Leroy tossed in.

“For once, I have to agree with the dwarf,” Killian tossed in.  “No bloody way in Hades you will get the town–or even most on this committee–to go along with such an authoritarian scheme.”

Regina sighed in exasperation.  “Listen Captain Guyliner…”

Snow stepped in again before things could further devolve.  “Okay, maybe we can’t make it compulsory, but I was thinking, we could have incentives.  You know, get pledges from various businesses for prizes for anyone who makes and keeps their resolutions until the end of the year.  Make it a fun, citywide competition.  That sort of thing.”

After a fair bit more debate, the council finally voted six to five–with Regina, Snow, David, Archie, Whale and Marco voting aye and Zelena, Emma, Killian, Leroy and Granny voting nay–to implement the initiative.  Emma had been on the fence about the whole thing, but what finally tipped her to the “nay” side, was Regina’s final decree.

“There is one thing I must insist upon,” Regina said.  “If we can’t force the entire town to comply with the initiative, we must at least stand in solidarity in our efforts to encourage full participation.  To that end, I move that the initiative be compulsory for the members of the council.”

Another groan around the room.

“What’s stopping everyone from just making self-serving resolutions?” Whale asked.  

“Well….” Snow began slowly. “Now just hear me out!”

No statement that started like that could ever end well.

“Regina and I discussed that, and we came up with a plan that we think is fair for everyone,” she said. “We, the council, have a say in each other’s resolutions.  Everyone is free to submit resolution ideas for each other, and then on New Year’s Eve, we hold a vote to determine what each person will focus on next year.”

That suggestion got more than a little pushback, but in the end, it was reluctantly adopted.

And so here they were, New Year’s Eve morning, making their way to town hall to decide upon and commit to their resolutions for the coming year.

Emma took a deep, calming breath, as she and Killian took their seats at the council table.  Killian took her hand and gave it a gentle squeeze offering her his support and strength.  She couldn’t care less what the council had decided for her resolution; the whole thing was ridiculous anyway.  What did have her nervous and excited and a little freaked out was the plan she and Killian had come up with just before Christmas when they learned the news.  Fact was, it was a big deal, a really, really big deal.

Regina, dressed in her customary power suit, banged her gavel against the table to quiet the gathered council and call the meeting to order.

“Okay, as it’s New Year’s Eve, and I’m sure we all have better places to be, let’s go ahead and get to it,” she said. 

“Here’s how it will work,” Snow said eagerly. “Everyone will vote on the proposed resolutions via secret ballot.  The ballots will be tabulated, and then each one of you will be given an envelope with the list of suggested resolutions the council proposed.  The one picked for you will be listed at the top in red.”

“And if we refuse to go along with that one?” Leroy asked, crossing his arms and scowling fiercely.

“We aren’t unreasonable,” Snow said in answer.  “If you can’t go along with your top choice, you have the option to choose one of the other selections on your list.”

Voting and tabulation were rather quick affairs, and within fifteen minutes the results were in.

“Just to get you all to stop bitching about this and see that it’s not that big of a deal, I’ll go first,” Regina said, taking her own envelope.  Taking her letter opener, she neatly slit the top of the envelope and pulled the single sheet of paper free.  Taking a moment to read through it, Regina scoffed.  “‘Cut back on snarkiness and insulting nicknames’?  Really?  I don’t–”

“Oh yes you do, your majesty,” Killian said.  “I’ve lost count of the number of times you’ve called me some variation of ‘Handless Wonder’ or ‘Captain Guyliner’.”

“Oh, did I hurt your little feelings?” Regina snapped.

“Aaaannd there’s the snark,” Emma commented.

“Fine!” Regina said, “just to prove to all of you that I’m serious about making this initiative work, I’ll accept your stupid resolution.”

With the first resolution reveal out of the way, the rest went rather smoothly.  Snow resolved to refrain from revealing secrets (although Emma personally preferred the resolution Killian had submitted for her mom: Call before coming over to your daughter and son-in-law’s house).  David resolved to make time for his mates now that his farm was taking up so much of his time. Zelena resolved to cut out envy from her life.  Leroy resolved to stop running through the town yelling “terrible news!” about anything less than a full blown emergency.  Whale resolved to stop drinking while on duty.  Archie resolved to actually get a medical degree not given to him from a curse. Granny resolved to replace the uncomfortable mattresses in her inn. And Marco resolved to take classes to bring his woodworking business into the twenty-first century.

Finally, it was down to just Emma and Killian.  The moment of truth.

Emma stood up, and without even looking at what was written on her envelope said, “I resolve to be the best mother I can possibly be and to learn all I can about how to care for a newborn.”

She was met with blank, confused stares as she sat down and Killian rose to make his announcement. 

“And I’d like to address my resolution directly to Dave,” he said with a cheeky grin.  “Mate, my resolution for next year is to not get your daughter pregnant….again.”

For a moment the blank stares continued until suddenly Snow gasped.  “Emma….Killian?  Are you saying what I think you’re saying?”

Emma stood, and laced her fingers with Killian’s as her smile bloomed and a tear fell from the corner of her eye.  “If you think we’re saying you’re about to be a grandma again, then yes.  We found out on Christmas Eve.  It finally happened!  I’m pregnant!”

Later that night, after the ball dropped and the new year came in amid fireworks and cheers, Emma settled in bed in Killian’s embrace.

“How are you feeling, love?” he asked, holding her to him and nuzzling her neck.  “Is the little one causing any distress?”

“At the moment all is well,” Emma said.  “Now in the morning when the nausea hits like a ton of bricks I might have a different answer, but for right now, everything feels just about perfect.”

Killian placed his hand on her belly and rubbed gently, his attempt, she knew, to caress their growing child.  “Something tells me this new year is going to be our best one yet.”

“Something tells me the same thing, babe,” Emma said.

They fell silent for another moment before Emma broke the silence with a chuckle.  “How long do you think it will take for the council to realize we totally blew off their resolutions for us?”

[01turnkill]

2024 Media Post Time - Master

1. Total Drama Island (2023) and Total Drama Island (2024)

I would personally consider Total Drama as one of my first "fandoms". One of the first times I went into the online community and talked to people... I had a DeviantART account which I made as an Ask Account for one of the characters.. Only answered about 2 asks before I stopped. I made image collages on a website online and posted those too. All before I found out how to download art programs as a kid..

It's been a long time since I watched those but sometime 3 years ago I did actually rewatch the first Total Drama Island and Total Drama Action, but stopped at World Tour and definitely didn't touch Revenge of the Island or All-Stars.

This new season is very obviously taking inspiration from the original, going back to the classic style with the characters and the challenges. Chris is back, even! There are a lot of characters in Reboot that feel like pieces of TDI put together. Though, I mean this in a good way, they feel balanced and different but not too exaggerated. Realistic but exaggerated at the same time.

When the characters were introducted I thought Ripper had the funniest intro of all time honestly. In the rest of the show he was amusing but that fart episode man. I also found Zee hilarious almost every time he spoke and Wayne too. I just laugh.

The Reboot introduces Homosexuals for the first time which is pretty cool, I won't lie. I thought it was amusing the gay guy Bowie's whole personality is just being gay and also being a bit of a petty gossip girl antagonist, but then there's Raj who is not so explicitly gay- his personality is being a stupid hockey jock (but not too stupid). It was good but I feel like the season, while it does focus on the characters interpersonal relationships, doesn't have nearly enough down time or conversations between characters in their cabins or at breakfast.. Just during challenges.

After becoming a hockey fan this hit harder and funnier to me than it could have before. Plenty of hockey references and jokes. They have the character Wayne who is a hockey jock but also stupid and since Raj is the gay one, Wayne is just really stupid and that's all he has got going on. I thought he'd maybe put his physical strength to use or something but no. He does get battered and bruised every other episode though..

I think I and a lot of people really did not enjoy Emma and Chase. Chase in the 2nd season was really funny but he wasn't there long and the whole rest of his and Emma's time on the show was a little irritating. Funny at first but as it went on ... man. I don't really care much for the romance elements in the show. Even the gays though I did appreciate it and this was kind of cool like, I think I would have been more on board if Emma stayed sadistic whether or not she liked or hated Chase at the moment and didn't keep flip flopping but I don't know what kind of a message that sends haha.

There was also a farting episode and a massive vomit scene with coloured vomit and it's like... hey now. You are gonna give people fetishes so deep in their head it won't crawl out until they're 20 and it's going to be vicious.

Could say more but yeah I love stupid shows like this every so often. I am good at laughing at everything, especially kids shows. I know how to be shocked every time something odd happens even though this is a cartoon and enjoying the same joke ten times.

Edit adding:

Wayne mentioning his Sidney Crosby rookie card gets destroyed story. Me shedding a tear 'I actually know who Sidney Crosby is..' How it feels finally knowing who a celebrity is in a TV reference... Not to mention I'm a card nerd.

[kittyball23]

Welp, happy 1-year anniversary to this movie! While not the best, it still exists 🤷 Honestly the best parts of it for me was seeing the Ericka and Mavis moments. I also was kinda hoping there would be a DVD out by now so I could complete the collection I have at home, but I’m sure whatever contract is needed for that is floating in limbo somewhere too. Anywho, I’ve put some of my answers to a 20-question game from the Amino App that was made for the first movie’s 10th anniversary (didn’t see that post until a couple of days ago, lol) under the cut in case you wanna know more about my thoughts on Transformania and also the rest of the franchise! :D

Thoughts on the franchise as a whole

Ah yes, Hotel Transylvania. To have sparked 4 movies, a show, shorts, some video games, and graphic novels, I’m guessing it was popular enough among folks xD For me, the movies are cute enough as they go, and entertaining with its cartoonish interpretation of classic horror icons. There are memorable moments and characters, maybe even good life lessons at times. Overall enjoyable films, and a fun watch :)

2) Favorite character

Ericka Van Helsing. She’s a bad@ss 😎

3) Favorite movie

3rd movie, hands down. A lot that had to do with how entertaining the Van Helsings were and also for giving us the Drericka ship ^_^

4) Favorite song

3rd movie had a lot of great songs, but if I had to decide my favorite it would be “Love is Not Hard to Find” from movie 4

5) Favorite video game

Don’t play video games, so N/A

6) Favorite actor/actress

Kathryn Hahn ✨

7) Thoughts on the TV series

Well, I only saw a handful of episodes from the TV series… and then stopped xD Idk, I guess it just wasn’t what I thought. Characters felt a little OOC, and just didn’t hold my interest :/ Honestly, what I would have liked would be a show taking place post HT1/HT2 since it takes place in about a 8-year time period give or take and could potentially have stories to tell with humans and monsters getting along, looking more into how they’ve each adapted at the hotel, and also just more of the characters we’re familiar with from the movies themselves

8) Favorite episode of the TV series

Like I said, haven’t been dedicated to watching the TV series, so can’t really say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

9) Favorite character from the TV series

From the episodes I did watch, I’d say Lydia was most entertaining

10) Favorite graphic novel

Motel Transylvania. I like the concept of expanding the hotel, and Johnny’s efforts in trying to make that happen xD

11) Genndy or Derrick (Director)

Probably Genndy

12) Adam or Brian (Dracula’s voice actors)

They’re both great, honestly

13) First impression of this franchise

The first movie came out when I was in like 6th grade, and I do recall classmates taking about wanting to go see it. But it didn’t really catch my interest, even when I did watch it for the first time in 2018. I felt it was too childish, and the fast movements bothered me

14) Latest impressions of this franchise

I think it’s kind of losing its steam a bit, because plot-wise 4 wasn’t the best it could be (which I guess was also part of the reason that led to the decline of the fandom…) but guess I can still appreciate what we have

15) How did you discover this franchise

My little bro got interested back in 2018 after seeing trailers for the third movie

16) Favorite zing

DRERICKA 💕

17) Favorite moment of all time

Transformania’s smoochy time scene (I mean hey, it’s pretty much the closest we got to an on-screen liplock from Drericka, plus I just can’t get enough of how clearly in love these two are with each other 😍 And how grossed out Mavis is as a result of that xD)

18) Did the finale satisfy you

Err… it was okay. Nothing more, nothing less. I do like the idea of Drac retiring and giving up the hotel to Mavis and Johnny, but the execution of the rest of the film’s plot I felt didn’t do it as much justice as it could have. I guess with all the switching around with the release date for this movie going further and further out, I was anticipating something worth the wait (also, January 14th?? The October release date I think would’ve been ideal since it’s spooky month. Even this January would’ve made more sense since it has a Friday the 13th in it)

19) Do you wish for more

At some point, yes, but maybe in 5+ years as a breather. If it does come back, I think an animated special of some kind would be cool, or a 2D show that takes place after part 4 with the brand-new hotel

20) Would you recommend this franchise

All in all, I would say yes! If you want just some silliness to pass time, with a mostly likeable ensemble of characters, then this is it :)

[h-worksrambles]

  I’m delighted to hear that people seemed to like my comparison of Max’s voices. And when I floated the idea of doing a similar comparison for Sam’s voices, people seemed keen. Now, Sam has had less voices than Max over the years, three currently, but fortunately, I have a lot to say about all of them. Sam is probably my favourite character in the series, and his voices over the years have given him a lot of charming little nuances. I will do my best to keep this to a voice comparison and not a shameless Sam appreciation post, but we’ll see...   I want to start by summing up one of the key things that I think makes Sam tick, and what I believe makes a good Sam voice. And that is that Sam is NOT the straight man of the duo...but he LOOKS like he is. Everything about Sam’s design makes him look relatively normal compared to Max. He’s a big dog which people associate with affection and friendliness. Sam wears clothing like every other character while Max is canonically nude, specifically a full suit which also doubles to make him look like a consumate professional. He’s also slightly more humanoid in appearance, compared to Max’s stumpy shaped body and massive head. All of this makes you think, ‘oh, this guy’s a sensible, professional detective compared to the insane rabbit next to him’.    Then he opens his mouth and tells you cheerfully about how Max made a clown choke on his own wig during their last case and it was the funniest, most adorable thing he’d ever seen. And THAT’s when you know this guy is a total enabler every bit as unhinged as his partner. A good Sam voice is able to make Sam sound perfectly normal at first glance, but all it takes is a minute’s conversation to learn that he’s ABSOLUTELY not.

  Anyway, let’s start as we did last time at Hit the Road. I don’t think it’s a bold statement to say that Bill Farmer is a terrific voice actor, but he does a splendid job here. Sam & Max has always had an element of noir parody, and a tongue in cheek take on detective fiction. The second Sam opens his mouth, you can instantly spot the Humphrey Bogart-esque voice he’s going for. Sam is supposed to put you in mind of a stoic, by-the-book noir detective. He sounds like he could have walked right of a black-and-white movie from the 50s. More than that, he sounds like a professional. Then you listen to what he’s actually saying and you realise...

Oh my god, this guy is a jerk!      Farmer’s Sam is absolutely Sam at his snarkiest. Most of his dialogue slips in some subtle dig at whoever he’s talking to. He and Max’s banter is quite dry and cutting, but still feels very natural (especually in the classic ‘lousy golfer’ exchange, which I think pretty much everyone in the fandom has memorised after that one fan animation). Just listen to how many roasts he dishes out in this game.   “Excuse us, but we need some help and although you seem dangerously unequipped brain wise, we’ve come to you for advice.”

  It means that he can shrug off everything, no matter how bizarre, as perfectly normal, which sells you further on that deceptive lunacy.   Sam also keeps up that air of faux-professionalism even when he’s being as un-professional as possible. Whether’s he shrugging off the flirtatious advances of a bungee-jumping instructor or getting into silly fights with a kid in the line, Sam never stops acting like he’s the star of his own personal movie. He’s got a severe case of ‘protagonist entitlement’, which makes his propensity to steal everything that’s not nailed down kind of fitting. I love the accent, I love the performance and I love his snark. I really wish we’d gotten that 2004 game so we could hear him for a little longer.

“This is so degrading.” “Shut up and dance.”

  Then we have the late, great Harvey Atkin from the cartoon, probably the most different and unique take on Sam, but still a very good one. Everything in the animated series is more cartoonish and over-the-top. So Sam’s pretence of professionalism becomes more of a jolly sense of bluster. He’s still very much a man (er, dog) on the case, but he’s much less dry and much more upbeat. That’s a lot like what I noticed with Rob Tinker’s Max, and it does help to give them a mutual high energy as they bounce off each other. While I personally like Sam to be a little quieter, and to hide that mad streak a little more, I still really enjoy this approach. It’s certainly the kind of voice you’d expect from a giant talking dog and fits very well with the fast-paced nature of the cartoon.

What Atkin absolutely nails, more than any other voice, is Sam’s temper. Being much louder and cartoonish in general means he can go hard on the moments where Sam gets mad. And that’s great because Sam has always been the more short tempered of the two. Max may be very violent but he’s not exactly one to get angry. Like I said last time, he’s more guarded with his emotions and more easy going. Sam is a lot more insecure and has much more things that set him off. Imply he’s bad as his job? Make fun of him for being a dog? Make a crack about his weight? Hurt Max in any way? All of those things can leave you with a very angry, 6ft tall dog with VERY large teeth.

‘Pinkbellies. I hated those. To this DAY I hate those. CURSE YOU MELON HARGAVES!!!”     Atkin sells ‘angry Sam’ very well, especially when it contrasts with how jovial he is the rest of the time. Atkin’s Sam is certainly a sharp contrast coming directly off of Farmer, but it’s an excellent performance in it’s own right.

  Last of all we have David Nowlin, by far the longest-running Sam voice, between all three Telltale games, Poker Night 2 and This Time It’s Virtual. And this is probably my favourite voice for Sam. Now if you listen to his first few performances, you can really hear a resemblance between Bill Farler’s performance and David Nowlin’s. And that’s partly because, if you read the interviews on the Sam & Max website, you’ll see Nowlin was actually a huge fan of Farmer’s performance and consciously tried to emulate it.   But overtime, his performance morphs into something distinct. In TTIV especially, his performance becomes a little less stoic and a little more upbeat. Ther’s a charming quiet affability to his voice somewhere between Farmer’s casual snark and Arkin’s cheerful enthusiasm.  And I really like that for Sam. It’s like he’s able to treat the most bizarre scenarios like they’re a typical Tuesday event. Being in this line of work alongside Max of all people for so long means nothing can phase him. His quiet delivery also re-captures a quirk of Farmer’s Sam. It’s one thing to sarcastically insult someone, it’s another to do so in a perfectly nice and civil tone. He can be biting or downright sinister in the most pleasant voice possible. A classic case of ‘beware the quiet ones’. “Max, do you have a piece of paper handy?” “You want to write down the phone number?” “(perfectly level tone) I remember the number. I want to write myself a reminder to smother you with a pilow in your sleep.”   The other key difference is that his Sam is a lot less confident and a lot more vulnerable. His tone is quieter, he’s a lot more easily flustered, and, much like Atkin’s version, it’s much easier to make him mad. And that’s honestly really interesting because, when you think about it, Sam is very insecure. No-one’s asking him to dress up in a suit or carry himself like a detective. That’s something he does himself because he so desperately wants to be cool. The best example of that is the Noir Sam segment. Sam narrates to himself on long, impassioned tangents out of his despair for Max, only for others to call him out for doing so, and he has to sheepishly apologise before gettng back to the point. “You. Me. The guy who delivers your deep dish pizzas...all of us bubbling over with sin and corruption and-” “Is there a point to any of this? Or are you just trying to get me depressed?” “(pleasant rational tone) Sorry, just thinking out loud. (furious again) WHERE WERE WE?!”

  And speaking of, 303 is probably Nowlin’s best performance. I think Atkin still has the best ‘angry voice’, but I love the growl of Nowlin’s delivery here. It’s a very dog-like angry performance if that makes sense, that walks a line between being aggressive but still funny, and his instant swaps from grief-stricken rage to calm conversation are hillarious.   The best way I can say it is that, much like how Rob Tinkler is my favorite Max because he was able to capture the essentials of the character while still adding his own dimension, Nowlin does the same for Sam. He hits all the beats of what I’d want from a good Sam: the business-like detective caricature, a quiet, pleasant, demanor that masks an unhinged enabler who can say the most nonsense stuff with a straight face. A barely concealed temper that boils up when you say the wrong thing to him. All whle giving the character a layer of subtle insecurity that works well both for comedy and sincere character development. Sam is a self conscious dork playing at being a cool, capable detective. Always putting up an act, and not doing a very good job maintaining it. And I think that especially helps in Season Three. It’s very easy to feel sorry for this more vulnerable Sam when he’s going through hell, but it never gets so overdone that he stops being funny.

  Ok, if this goes on much longer, it IS just going to be spiel on why I relate way too hard to a talking dog. So I’ll just say this. All three of these voice actors do a splendid job and they all have their strengths. I love Farmer’s effortless noir parody and merciless snark. I love Harvey Atkin’s jovial energy masking a fierce temper, and I love Nowlin’s quiet brand of madness and extra layer of humanity. They’re all funny and likable while still being complete jackasses in their own ways.   So many years, and not one dud performance along either of these leads. If you ask me, that’s pretty impressove. A lot of talented people put a lot of effort into bringing this duo to life, and I think it more than paid off.

[intermundia]

Hi! I’m a huge fan of your fics (honestly they’re some of the beat fics I have ever read in my life, you’re so talented) and I love your blog so much! I hope you don’t mind me asking how many followers you have? I also want ask some advice on how to increase interaction and activity on my blog with other obikin fans?

thank you!! you are very kind. one of the things i like best about tumblr is that our follower counts are hidden, i think it harshes the vibe to put hard numbers on things, because we’re all peers here on this hellsite imho. i guess i’m comfortable saying that before i started star wars blogging in april 2020, i had around 350 followers. i started writing, and by early jan 2021, i had 1k followers, so that was the early trajectory, helped by the fandom boom during the pandemic.

my advice for increasing interaction really depends on understanding what your goal is in seeking that interaction. why do you want interaction, what does it mean to you? if you’re a content creator looking for an audience for your art, gifs, or writing, it’s a slightly different situation from if you’re someone who participates by sharing excitement through reblogging (in my mind i think of these people as “curators” of their feeds). seeking friends is different from seeking an audience, basically.

i have high levels of interaction when i write stories and meta posts, or share lore from legends, or make gifs. the way my blog first got attention was i wrote a couple short stories that spawned AUs, classics au and murder puppy au primarily, that people would ask questions about, i would answer them and build out the au more, tag it obikin, and my posts showed up in the obikin tag. it prompted a virtuous circle of more asks leading to more spread and to more followers. i was responsive and available to asks (lmao remember that) and produced a lot of content. that is extremely helpful.

however it really is possible to have interaction without being a content creator!! the way i had followers before star wars was being a curator of aesthetic posts that i love. i would follow other similar blogs and occasionally reach out to people who shared interests and that's how you make mutuals. you have to show up, offer something to others, even if it's just your taste in collecting other people's posts for your feed, which would make people want to subscribe to see it, you know?

if you're looking for more followers, you have to be mindful of why other people would choose to follow a blog, like what’s different, special or interesting there, which can just be your personality! you have to show that personality off though by interacting with others: send people asks, leave tags on reblogs, like that's how i follow people!! if i see a name enough, i will check them out, we become mutuals, and now i have more friends. be kind, be interested, and be involved, and you are automatically a welcome part of the fandom.

also: some harsher advice, if you're willing to hear it. if you are a content creator, the quality of your work will attract people, and there are no shortcuts to producing excellent things. to have something individual to offer often takes years of work. in my case, you say i am talented, and i appreciate that! but my work is the result of years of practice and study. i didn’t just wake up able to write lex talionis. i couldn’t have written it at 19. i'm 31 now and have had the blessing of an incredibly thorough education.

my unique perspective that i offer though my analysis comes from the fact that i lived like a weird monk studying intensely for years, sacrificing a normal college experience to wake up at 3am and study greek for hours and hours. my understanding of the jedi comes from probably thousands of hours of study of insight meditation that i did and still do to deal with my manic depression. i write fanfiction well because i read tens of millions of words of fanfiction before i started writing, on top of pretty much all of the literary classics in the western canon.

i am trying to say that i worked my ass off to get where i am, and there was no magic wand to wave to get here. my stories are not the result of talent, even if i have that, but the result of hundreds of hours of intense dedication to improving. the articulate meta that seemed to just flow after the kenobi show? that was the result of two years of intense study of obi-wan kenobi. i had a two year head start on people just coming to the show, so of course i was able to parse it differently.

if you produce content, tagging it correctly and networking and all that helps, but there are no shortcuts to being really good at something. quality both draws and retains an audience. so basically if your art isn't getting the attention you want now, it might in a few years if you keep working hard at it!! keep dedicating your time, developing something unique and personal, and then offering it to people. i know it sucks now, but you have to put in the work to improve, and if you do, you will have something to offer that nobody else has, and that is how you really get interaction.

[undertale-data]

[Image Description: An Undertale chat box that has “WHY FANS LOVE UNDERTALE” at its center. Next to it are a line chart and an Egg from the Dating Hub on its left, and a CRIME measurer (also from the Dating Hub) on its right. End I.D.]

[Image Description: a pie chart titled, “LEVEL OF LOVE FOR UNDERTALE.” The textbox on the top right reads, “On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the least and 10 being the highest, how much do fans enjoy Undertale?” From the top going clockwise, 12 or 0% chose 5 and below; 23 or 1% chose 6; 98, or 4%, chose 7; 325, or 12%, chose 8; 529, or 20%, chose 9; and 1664, or 63%, chose 10. End I.D.]

It’s clear from all of the data analyzed so far that fans who took the time to answer our survey love Undertale. It is unlikely that they would have taken the time to answer so many questions if they had not, and even less likely that they would have come across our survey in the first place. Naturally, it comes as no surprise that 63% of our responders gave their love for Undertale a score of ten out of ten. 95% gave their love for Undertale a score of eight or higher, and only 12 responders responded with five or below, a number so small that their responses had to be lumped together to be visible on the pie chart. Of those, only 3 responders gave their love for Undertale a score of 1, and based on those responders’ other answers, it is likely that they were only intending to troll. We are very fortunate that the vast majority of responders took the survey seriously, enough so that responses like this are barely a blip in the data.

Now, for our final analysis post of the event, we will delve into the reasons that fans love Undertale so dearly.

(Essay and highlights under the cut.)

There have been countless essays on the impact that Undertale has had on people’s lives. I can hardly add more on the subject than what has already been said, but I hope this summary can provide a brief overview of what stood out among the over two thousand answers given in response to this survey. That said, due to the sheer volume of answers, I could not read every single one in depth—however, I did skim all of them, and some that stood out or were representative of several responses have been highlighted below. If you would like to see what every fan who consented to share their response had to say, you may view the full list of responses here. Note that these responses have not been edited in any way. This document may take a long time to load, as it is over 100 pages long.

(Warnings for mentions of suicidal thoughts in the following essay.)

Several responders loved the theme of choices mattering in Undertale. Whether people played the pacifist, merciless, or neutral routes, they enjoyed how the game reacted to their actions. For some, it even made them consider their own morality. One touching response explained the impact that the theme of mercy made on them. “I realized that Mercy isn't something that's given to those who deserve it. Flowey didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it myself. Shoot, we ALL need Mercy in our lives.” Many fans left similar comments about how the themes of Undertale made them better people.

Undertale changed how its fans treat others, and it also changed how fans treat themselves. The theme of staying determined and the messages of hope in the game were a light to a very large portion of fans. I cannot list all of the fans who said that Undertale helped them out of a dark place, or that they would not be alive if not for Undertale. “DETERMINATION became a metaphor for not killing myself at a really rough time in my life and I’ll always cherish that. Undertale isn’t afraid to go to really dark places but at the same time holds on so tight to its hope.”

Undertale brought fans together in unexpected ways. Some said they met friends or significant others through the fandom. “I wouldn't have met my now husband without Undertale,” one fan said. A different fan who is non-native English speaking mentioned that the game and the fan community helped them to learn English.

It would be impossible to discuss Undertale without mentioning the fan community. Whether for good or bad, many responders mentioned the fandom in their responses. Overall the feelings towards the fandom seem positive, though many made references to “toxic” parts of the fandom without specifying which parts they consider toxic. Others rejected the idea of toxicity in fandom. One response said: “[SLAMS FIST ON DESK] I KNOW MOST PEOPLE SAY THE FANDOM IS TOXIC AND CRINGE OR WHATEVER BUT OH MY GOD. The Undertale fandom, both the UTMV and the actual UT fandom, has been so much fun to be a part of. I've met countless friends because of our shared interest in something related to the game! The art people create can be breathtaking and so inspirational, and the fanfics are so so good!! I've seen people write incredible things for this fandom and it's what made me continue writing!”

One thing that makes the Undertale fandom unique is the way it embraces various AUs. Some fans are tired of AU content, but the majority of responses show a love for the creativity behind AUs. “Roll your eyes at the 50th AU Sans all you want, it's encouraging people to step outside the boundaries of fanart and pushing people to make their own ideas! I mean, hell, it was how I gained the confidence to start making my own original content.” The lack of a judgemental atmosphere seems present in the AU community, according to the responses we saw. There is an interesting balance between AU and canon (sometimes referred to as “classic”) content that another responder pointed out: “The fandom helped keep the game alive all these years, with all of its AUs. Although personally, I always enjoyed AUs that kept characters as close to the classic material as possible (dancetale, outertale) I do appreciate the creativity of the fandom. They almost created entirely new stories with new characters of their own! If it weren't for those people, the Undertale fandom would have probably not been as active as it is now. I do feel like we're getting a resurgence of classic content now too! (In 2021)”

Regardless of the many AUs the fandom has created over the years, the original game of Undertale still feels like home for many fans. They wished they could reclaim the feeling of playing the game again for the first time, but even though we can’t reset time in real life, there is still a special feeling for fans each time they play Undertale. One fan said, “Even the best fics I've read can't capture that feeling of nostalgia/almost-"coming home" that comes with hearing the music and talking to the characters.” This feeling is one that can be cherished time and time again. In the words of another responder: “It always feels welcoming like home or like comfort food that I never grow tired of no matter how many times I go to it.” Others pointed out the strength of the found family trope in Undertale, which likely contributes to this feeling of “home” as well.

As mentioned briefly earlier, the music is part of what makes Undertale feel like home for fans. Even when responses focused on other aspects of the game, many would throw in a comment about the soundtrack at the end. One comment focused on the music said “IT'S SO GOOD like I will literally go through the entire thing over and over and not be bored with it. It makes my monkey brain so happy you have no idea.” Like with the game itself, the music has incredible replay value, an amazing feat considering most of the tracks use the same few motifs. “I think what I like the most about Undertale is how the music attaches you to the story,” another responder said. “They're simple melodies that stick with you throughout the whole game, and they can remind you of both good and bad times.”

If the music sticks with fans in their hearts, then the game’s lore sticks with fans in their minds. Even six years after the release of Undertale, fans are still creating new theories and digging up new secrets. The way the game breaks the fourth wall in particular intrigued many fans and has stuck out through all these years. The awareness that the game shows for the RPG genre makes it memorable. The game plays with the player’s expectations and turns them on their heads, all while reminding the player that they’re in a game. There are few other games that do this on such a large scale, so it’s no surprise that fans cite this as one of their favorite things about Undertale.

Lastly, the LGBT+ representation in Undertale has been a huge draw for fans. Especially in 2015, the sheer volume of non-cishet characters was unprecedented, as one fan pointed out: “It's practically unheard of to see so MANY from just one source, especially during its heyday in 2015-16. Hell, you can't even GET the true pacifist ending without helping two gay couples hook up. It's really nice to see all of them being accepted for who they are and not judged for their sexuality or gender, at least in-canon.” The LGBT+ cast including Frisk, Chara, Napstablook, Monster Kid, Mettaton, Alphys, and Undyne each connected with fans in unique ways. It’s clear how important this is from responses such as: “There are canon nonbinary characters 🥺. i have never seen representation of myself before.” “It made me gay and trans so thanks for that.”

Once again I am overwhelmed with just how much there is to say about Undertale. One responder really understood when they compared Undertale to an iceberg, explaining that there are so many layers to the game that there is something for everyone: “everyone can find something to enjoy in the lore/game regardless of what kind of fan they are! Being able to appeal to various types of fans—from simple happy shipper people to deep dive lorediggers—is the mark of the coolest games!” I would have to agree with them.

It’s been six years, and despite everything, it’s still you. Thank you for reading, participating in this survey, and above all, staying determined.

Highlights:

DETERMINATION became a metaphor for not killing myself at a really rough time in my life and I’ll always cherish that. Undertale isn’t afraid to go to really dark places but at the same time holds on so tight to its hope.

I think the coolest thing was having the opportunity to watch the AU community grow from its bare roots. It's nearly insane how big and complex it's gotten, unlike anything I'd ever seen before. Roll your eyes at the 50th AU Sans all you want, it's encouraging people to step outside the boundaries of fanart and pushing people to make their own ideas! I mean, hell, it was how I gained the confidence to start making my own original content.

i love how the lgbt rep is so naturalized... there are just gay people! and its nobodys business!

The music is my go to answer, but what I really really REALLY love is how the minor characters have so much personality to them when you talk to them. They aren't incredibly important to the overall story, but they're all so likeable and diverse that you just can't help but like them immediately!

I think it was the first videogame I have played that broke the fourth wall that much. Of course there has been other videogames that broke it but just for one or two tongue-in-cheek jokes. The guilt of killing mama goat was also something intense as well that I appreciated as an experience and that I didn't think a videogame could cause on someone.

I love how no character can be seen as completely bad! Everyone builds up Asgore as some horrible villain, but he turns out to be a 'fuzzy pushover' who's broken and just wants his family back by the time you meet him. Then you think Flowey's an irredeemable killer who engineered the suffering of the monsters across many timelines, and he is... but he also used to be the kind and beloved Prince Asriel Dreemurr, traumatized by his death and subsequent rebirth, projecting his best friend onto you.

The fact that choices matter in the game. Your first playthrough and getting the golden ending for the first time. I can never replicate those feelings again, wish I could erase my memories and replay the game from the start.

I wouldn't have met my now husband without Undertale.

(Toxic parts of the fandom aside) The community is possibly one of the kindest I've ever met. Cringe culture is completely dead, and I feel like I can be myself. I felt a very close connection to many of the characters, and I loved consuming content about them when I was in a rough patch in my life.

just everything, the whole game has just impacted my life so much. i know it sounds really lame, but when the game first came out, i would purposely put my hands in my pockets and sway slightly, like sans' idle animation. of course i dont do that anymore haha, but undertale still really impacts me to this day, and i wouldnt have it any other way :)

it made me gay and trans so thanks for that

I realized that Mercy isn't something that's given to those who deserve it. Flowey didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it myself. Shoot, we ALL need Mercy in our lives.

The thing I love most about Undertale is no matter how many times I play or watch a playthrough it always makes me genuinely happy. It always feels welcoming like home or like comfort food that I never grow tired of no matter how many times I go to it. Toriel still makes me feel all warm and cozy in her home, the Skelebros always make me laugh, and I still cry on the inside watching Frisk comforting Asriel. And on the flip side the No Mercy run still invokes the negative emotions in me as well. In short Undertale just feels like a second home to me and I always wish I could stay.

The reader inserts are my favorite way to decompress after a hard day

I think Undertale helped me discover my love for 8-bit games, and made me realize how IMPORTANT music is in video games.

the worldbuilding and character design are my favorite parts of the main game apart from the music! I’m also a huge fan of the random AU music- not for like underswap or underfell i like the stuff where someone makes a megalovania for a random au where gru from despicable me replaces sans as the character. i think its funny

Just... the vibe, honestly? Even the best fics I've read can't capture that feeling of nostalgia/almost-"coming home" that comes with hearing the music and talking to the characters.

there are canon nonbinary characters 🥺. i have never seen representation of myself before.

[SLAMS FIST ON DESK] I KNOW MOST PEOPLE SAY THE FANDOM IS TOXIC AND CRINGE OR WHATEVER BUT OH MY GOD. The Undertale fandom, both the UTMV and the actual UT fandom, has been so much fun to be a part of. I've met countless friends because of our shared interest in something related to the game! The art people create can be breathtaking and so inspirational, and the fanfics are so so good!! I've seen people write incredible things for this fandom and it's what made me continue writing!

There's a scene where Frisk (the player) is going towards what is presumably going to be their death. They will fight Asgore and he will use their human soul to break the barrier and free his people. The music, despite the player's impending doom, is... triumphant. You are not the triumphant one here, and yet, the score invites you to experience the monsters' joy and happiness as they tell you the tale of their subjugation. The monsters are going to be free. This is their victory, but they don't hate you or want you to die. They're just... happy. That scene has always struck me very deeply. I feel it represents the best parts of Undertale.

I loved how well thought out the Geno route was. It really made me feel like I was doing something horrible, and the characters were very obviously reacting to dire circumstances.

I dunno? I like Undertale for it's characters, story, music, secrets and many more. I am not good with Headcanons but I also like the neutral endings and how different they can depending on who you spare and kill

I was very bad at english before, i thought i couldn't progress because i was very shy and not confident. But my sibling and i wanted to have the best experience with this game so we wanted to play it in english. It's this game and the fandom which helped me to make huge progress in english !

THE SOUNDTRACK. IT'S SO GOOD like I will literally go through the entire thing over and over and not be bored with it. It makes my monkey brain so happy you have no idea.

to avoid writing an essay i will say one word. Mettaton

It is like Toby specifically made the games to fit the iceberg meme and it's awesome, everyone can find something to enjoy in the lore/game regardless of what kind of fan they are! Being able to appeal to various types of fans - from simple happy shipper people to deep dive lorediggers is the mark of the coolest games!

I love almost everything about Undertale as a game on its own. The music, the art and especially the characters and how they interact. They made me feel at home. Undertale means a huge amount to me. (I even got a tattoo of the castle when you and MK walk together!) The fandom helped keep the game alive all these years, with all of its AUs. Although personally, I always enjoyed AUs that kept characters as close to the classic material as possible (dancetale, outertale) I do appreciate the creativity of the fandom. They almost created entirely new stories with new characters of their own! If it weren't for those people, the Undertake fandom would have probably not been as active as it is now. I do feel like we're getting a resurgence of classic content now too! (In 2021)

the mystery. toby fox refused to give answers to anything and i think thats very sexy of him.

I just feel guilty for liking it so much when I'm in my 30's. But I recently got diagnosed with ASD, so I guess it explains things a bit. Many ppl consider Papyrus to be neurodivergent, and some adult fans are too, so seeing that makes me feel a bit better.

i think about "Despite everything, it's still you" everyday of my life.

I like how it's just as funny as it can be serious. All routes are this way. I laughed as much as I cried when I played the Pacifist route and then once I opened the game again and Flowey was telling me to let them be happy, I immediately turned off the game. I somehow felt bad.

The Found Family Trope

The True Pacifist Ending is just...man. And the fanworks about saving everyone even when the game doesn't let you? MANNNNNN

I think what I like the most about Undertale is how the music attaches you to the story. They're simple melodies that stick with you throughout the whole game, and they can remind you of both good and bad times.

there's honestly a LOT to love about this game, but i think one of my favorite things about it is just how many lgbt+ characters there are??? i can think of alphys, undyne, frisk, chara, mettaton, napstablook, monster kid, asgore, mad mew mew, the dress lion, the royal guards, and arguably even papyrus off of the top of my head, but im sure i'm forgetting a few from just undertale alone (there's even MORE in deltarune)!! it's practically unheard of to see so MANY from just one source, especially during its heyday in 2015-16. hell, you can't even GET the true pacifist ending without helping two gay couples hook up. it's really nice to see all of them being accepted for who they are and not judged for their sexuality or gender, at least in-canon.

[Image description: A wordcloud in the shape of the capitalized word UNDERTALE. The text is white on a black background, and uses the font found in the game. Some of the most visible words are: Game, Love, Music, Life, AU, Store, Friend, and Feel, which represent the most common words in the essays people wrote about their love for the game. End of ID]

[flufffysocks]

let's talk about andi mack's worldbuilding

sorry this took forever to make! i've been pretty busy with school stuff and i kind of lost my inspiration for a bit, but i ultimately really enjoyed writing it! i wish i could've included more pics (tumblr has a max of 10 per post), and it kinda turned from less of a mini analysis to more of an extremely long rant... but i hope it's still a fun read!

i've been rewatching the show over the past few weeks (thanks again to @disneymack for the link!), and i’ve been noticing a lot that i never did the first time around. this is really the first time i’ve watched the show from start to finish since it aired, and it honestly feels so different this time - probably a combination of the fact that i’m not as focused on plot and can appreciate the show as a whole, and also that the fandom is much, much smaller now, so there’s a lot less noise. so the way i’m consuming this show feels super different than it did the first time, but the show itself doesn’t - it’s just as warm and comforting to me as it was the first time around, if not more so.

i think a lot of that can be attributed to andi mack’s “worldbuilding”. i’m not quite sure that this is the right word in this context, to be honest, because i mostly see it used in reference to fantasy and sci-fi universes, but it just sort of feels right to me for andi mack, because you can really tell how much love and care went into constructing this universe. for clarity, worldbuilding is “the process of creating an imaginary world” in its simplest sense. there’s two main types: hard worldbuilding, which involves inventing entire universes, languages, people, cultures, places, foods, etc. from scratch (think “lord of the rings” or “dune”), and soft worldbuilding, in which the creators don’t explicitly state or explain much about the fictional universe, but rather let it’s nature reveal itself as the story progresses (think studio ghibli films). andi mack to me falls in the soft worldbuilding category. even though it takes place in a realistic fiction universe, there’s a lot of aspects to it that are inexplicably novel in really subtle ways.

so watching the show now, i’ve noticed that the worldbuilding comes primarily from two things - setting and props, and oftentimes the both of them in tandem (because a big part of setting in filmmaking does depend on the props placed in it!).

one of the most obvious examples is the spoon. it really is a sort of quintessential, tropic setting in that it's the main gang's "spot", which automatically gives it a warm and homey feel to it. and its set design only amplifies this:

the choice to make it a very traditional 50s-style diner creates a very nostalgic, retro feel to it, which is something that's really consistent throughout the show, as you'll see. from the round stools at the bar, to the booths, to the staff uniforms, this is very obvious. the thing that i found especially interesting about it though is the choice of color. the typical 50s diner is outfitted with metallic surfaces and red accented furnishings, but the spoon is very distinctly not this.

instead, it's dressed in vibrant teal and orange, giving it a very fresh and modern take on a classic look. so it still maintains that feeling of being funky and retro, but that doesn't retract from the fact that the show is set distinctly in modern times.

of course, this could just be a one-off quirky set piece, but this idea of modernizing and novelizing "retro" things is a really common motif throughout the show. take red rooster records. i mean, it's a record shop - need i say more? it's obviously a very prominent store in shadyside, at least for the main characters, but there's no apparent reason why it is (until season 2 when bowie starts working there, and jonah starts performing there). a lot of the time, though, it functions solely as a record shop. vinyl obviously isn't the most practical or convenient way of listening to music, but it's had its resurgence in pop culture even in the real world, mostly due to its aesthetic value, so it's safe to say that it serves the same purpose in the andi mack universe.

the fringe seems to be nostalgic of a different era, specifically the Y2K/early 2000s period (because it's meant to be bex's territory and symbolic of who she used to be, and its later transformation into cloud 10 is representative of her character arc, but that's beside the point). to be honest, exactly what this store was supposed to be always confused me. it was kind of a combination party store/clothing store/makeup store/beauty parlor? i think that's sort of the point of it though, it's supposed to feel very grunge-y and chaotic (within the confines of a relatively mellow-toned show, of course), and it's supposed to act as a sort of treasure chest of little curios that both make the place interesting and allow the characters to interact with it.

and, of course, there's andi shack. this is really the cherry on top of all of andi mack's sets, just because it's so distinctly andi. it serves such amazing narrative purpose for her (ex. the storyline where cece and ham were going to move - i really loved this because it highlights its place in the andi mack universe so well, and i'm a sucker for the paper cranes shot + i'm still salty that sadie's cranes didn't make it into the finale) and it's the perfect reflection of andi's character development because of how dynamic it is (the crafts and art supplies can get moved around or switched out, and there's always new creations visible).

going back to the nostalgia motif though, the "shack" aspect of it always struck me as very treehouse-like. personally, whenever i think of treehouses, there's this very golden sheen of childhood about it, if that makes sense. i've always seen treehouses in media as a sort of shelter for characters' youthful innocence and idealistic memories. for example, the episode "up a tree" from good luck charlie, the episode "treehouse" from modern family, and "to all the boys 2" all use a treehouse setting as a device to explore the character's desire to hold onto their perfect image of their childhood (side note: this exact theme is actually explored in andi mack in the episode "perfect day 2.0"!). andi shack is no exception to this, but it harnesses this childhood idealism in the same way that it captures the nostalgia of the 50s in the spoon, or the early 2000s in the fringe. it's not some image of a distant past being reflected through that setting; it's very present, and very alive, because it reflects andi as she is in the given moment.

some honorable mentions of more one-off settings include the ferris wheel (from "the snorpion"), the alley art gallery (from "a walker to remember"), SAVA, the color factory (from "it's a dilemna"), and my personal favorite, the cake shop (from "that syncing feeling").

[every time i watch this episode i want to eat those cakes so bad]

these settings have less of a distinctly nostalgic feel (especially the color factory, which is a very late 2010s, instagram era setting), but they all definitely have an aura of perfection about them. andi mack is all about bright, colorful visuals, and these settings really play to that, making the andi mack universe seem really fun and inviting, and frankly very instagrammable (literally so, when it comes to the color factory!).

props, on the other hand, are probably a much less obvious tool of worldbuilding. they definitely take up less space in the frame and are generally not as noticeable (i'm sure i'll have missed a bunch that will be great examples, but i'm kind of coming up with all of this off the top of my head), but they really tie everything together.

for example, bex's box, bex's polaroid, and the old tv at the mack apartment (the tv is usually only visible in the periphery of some shots, so you might not catch it at first glance) all complement that very retro aesthetic established through the settings (especially the polaroid and the tv, because there's really no good reason that the characters would otherwise be using these).

besides this, andi's artistic nature provides the perfect excuse for plenty of colorful, crafty props to amplify the visuals and the tone. obviously, as i discussed before, andi shack is the best example of this because it's filled with interesting props. but you also see bits of andi's (and other people's) crafts popping up throughout the show (ex. the tape on the fridge in the mack apartment, andi's and libby's headbands in "the new girls", walker's shoes, andi's phone case, and of course, the bracelet). not only does doing this really solidify this talent as an essential tenet of andi's character, but it also just makes the entirety of shadyside feel like an extension of andi shack. the whole town is a canvas for her crafts (or art, depending on how you want to look at it. i say it's both), and it immensely adds to shadyside's idealism. because who wouldn't want to live in a world made of andi mack's creations?

and, while it's not exactly a prop, the characters' wardrobe is undoubtedly a major influence on the show's worldbuilding. true to it's nature as a disney channel show, all of the characters are always dressed in exceptionally curated outfits of whatever the current trends are, making the show that much more visually appealing. i won't elaborate too much on this, because i could honestly write a whole other analysis on andi mack's fashion (my favorites are andi's and bex's outfits! and kudos to the costume designer(s) for creating such wonderful and in-character wardrobes!). but, i think it's a really really important aspect of how the show's universe is perceived, so it had to be touched upon.

[^ some of my favorite outfits from the show! i am so obsessed with andi's jacket in the finale, and i aspire to be at bex's level of being a leather jacket bisexual]

and lastly, phones. this is a bit of an interesting case (pun intended), because the way they're used fluctuates a bit throughout the show, but i definitely noticed that at least in the first season terri minsky tried to avoid using them altogether. these efforts at distancing from modern tech really grounds the show in it's idealist, nostalgia-heavy roots, so even when the characters start using their phones more later in the show, they don't alter the viewer's impression of the andi mack universe very much.

so, what does all of this have to do with worldbuilding? in andi mack's case, because it's set in a realistic universe and not a fantasy one, a lot of what sets it apart from the real world comes down to tone. because, as much as this world is based on our own, it really does feel separate from it, like an alternate reality that's just slightly more perfect than ours, which makes all the difference. it's the idealism in color and composition in andi mack's settings that makes it so unmistakably andi mack. even the weather is always sunny and perfect (which is incredibly ironic because the town is called shadyside - yes, i am very proud of that observation).

the andi mack universe resides somewhere in this perfect medium that makes it feel like a small town in the middle of nowhere (almost like hill valley in 1955 from "back to the future"), but at the same time like an enclave within a big city (because of its proximity to so many modern, unique, and honestly very classy looking establishments). it is, essentially, an unattainable dream land that tricks you into believing it is attainable because it's just real enough.

all this to say, andi mack does an amazing job of creating of polished, perfect world for its characters. this is pretty common among disney channel and nickelodeon shows, but because most other shows tend to be filmed in a studio with three-wall sets, andi mack is really set apart from them in that it automatically feels more real and tangible. it has its quintessential recurring locations, but it has far more of them (most disney/nick shows usually only have 3-4 recurring settings), and it has a lot more one-off locations. it's also a lot more considerate when it comes to its props, so rather than the show just looking garish and aggressively trendy, it has a distinctive style that's actually appropriate to the characters and the story. overall this creates the effect of expanding the universe, making shadyside feel like it really is a part of a wider world, rather than an artificial bubble. it's idealism is, first and foremost, grounded in reality, and that provides a basis for its brilliant, creative, and relatable storytelling.

tl;dr: andi mack's sets and props give it a very retro and nostalgic tone which makes its whole universe seem super perfect and i want to live there so bad!!

[itsclydebitches]

The thing that feels disingenuous about Miles answer about Ironwood is that he was part of the writing staff that framed the general as a cool character to start with. I do think that the signs about Ironwood's evil were clear since V2 and in V7 he was an outright dictator from episode 1. Nonetheless, he was still consistently framed as a cool character, someone you can trust and rely. You don't get to blame the fans for liking a genocide if you was the one framed him as cool in the first place.

I actually don’t think being cool is the problem. If we’re satirizing and/or making a  statement about the toxic masculinity that leads to something like a dictatorship, then being “cool” is a crucial part of that. People don’t leverage the power they have by looking lame, they do so by appearing desirable, enviable, awesome. Being in the military is supposedly “cool.” Being a white guy with a giant gun is supposedly “cool.” Having power over an entire nation is supposedly “cool,” etc. If you only make such characters look revolting  — even when they are  — then you miss one of the main recruitment tools for this kind of rhetoric. Any version of Ironwood that’s meant to make a point about the dangers of following someone like him needs to make him look “cool” and then deconstruct that, pointing out the ways in which this cool veneer is a lie meant to pull you in. To do otherwise is to claim that evil people are always easy to spot. Making your villains “uncool” implies that the people who do appear cool in real life must be fine then. That good looking, charismatic leader is great. Why would I look critically at his actions? He’s too cool to be evil. 

My personal problem is not that “They made the dictator look cool and we can’t possibly expect the audience to tell the difference between someone who is truly good and someone who is just using various Cool Points to skate by” because that would be the point of such a character  — the work the show needs to do. My problem is that RWBY didn’t do that work. At least, not to the extent they needed to. Rather than making Ironwood a truly heinous character (prior to Volume 7 ‘s shooting, I mean) and allowing the audience to learn how appearing cool can’t hide that, they just made him good person. Straight up. Flawed, absolutely, but no worse than any of the other character on screen, particularly post Volume 6 when our heroes are frequently putting people in danger, seizing power, telling lies, keeping secrets, and generally acting in the ways we’re supposedly meant to condemn Ironwood for. Since talk of Miles’ vid last night I’ve seen three separate “Ironwood was always bad, idk how people can miss the signs” posts and those people are half right. There 100% were signs we were meant to pick up on. The problem is RWBY then went and deconstructed those signs. Ironwood didn’t just bring an army to a peace festival, he brought an army to an event he had good reason to believe wasn’t peaceful  — and he was right. Ironwood didn’t wrest control from Ozpin (using a series of checks and balances that exist for this very purpose...) because he has an obsession with being in control, he did so because he honestly believed Ozpin was putting people in danger  — and he was right. Ironwood didn’t step up post-Fall because he arrogantly believes he’s the only one capable of saving Remnant, he did so because he’s actually the most qualified: a fully trained huntsmen leading an Academy (like Ozpin) with an army and knowledge of this secret war. What, was Ironwood supposed to read the script and wait for the group of dropout teenagers to arrive and save the world instead? To say nothing of how his power and responsibility are framed as sacrifices, not something he sought out. Ironwood doesn’t want to be the sole ruler here. His desperate relief at having allies again proves it. Good setup for the rise of a dictator would have been Ironwood being cagey with his information and exerting control over the group... not telling them everything, not giving them more power, not letting them keep the Lamp, not taking arrest off the table so as to keep them in line, and generally doing the opposite of everything he did do to share that responsibility and power. RWBY got very good at giving us the first half of these red flags  — he has an army, he’s stubborn, he’s hurting Mantle, etc.  — but then time and time again introduced a context that changed that flag dramatically: they are fighting literal monsters, he’s no more stubborn than our title character, hurting Mantle is a consequence of a plan he thinks will help the whole world and our heroes back this. Those who insist that Ironwood was 100% a villain in the making (or a villain already) prior to shooting Oscar are working from their assumption of what his archetype represents, not what RT actually put on screen. Because RT is just really bad at writing a dictator character. They didn’t have the skill to manage someone who only appeared good on the surface, let alone a character with the complex nuance of wielding “coolness” to their advantage, which is why in Volume 8 they had to resort to cartoon villainy with literal, evil spotlights. It’s not that the audience is too dumb to pick up on those red flags, it’s that RT couldn’t manage to plant them without continually introducing valid justifications. You can’t say, “Bringing an army is a bad thing. Look at this dictator coding!” without me going, “Yeah, except in the fictional world you created an army does not represent the problems it does in our real life societies. This isn’t a guy amassing soldiers to go after oil, he’s trying to protect people from monsters. Not even metaphoric monsters acting as stand-ins for a minority group. Literal, evil monsters!” RWBY ignores its own context and a good chunk of the fandom ignored it too. 

The problem with that (besides the general frustration of someone ignoring parts of canon to forward a particular reading) is that the fandom’s go-to claim is that everything is meaningful  — and it’s a reading the writers very much support. Fans do not, as the above attests, push for a simple reading of, “Don’t think too hard about it. Just take the surface reading and run with it” which, while still frustrating, would have at least been a valid stance. Rather, they insist very strongly that nuance and depth are what drive the show. From the song lyrics to a tiny detail in the opening, everything is important and if you don’t accept that then you can’t appreciate RWBY’s complexity. 

“Okay,” I said. “Then in that case Ironwood coming around to Ozpin’s position is meaningful too? Glynda  — one of our best and most faultless characters  — supporting him is meaningful? Flipping his gun, defending Weiss, Qrow writing to him, the group working with him for months on end... all of it is meaningful to his characterization? You said so yourself.” 

“No, no, no,” comes the reply. “He’s just bad. But he’s also nuanced. He’s tricked you into thinking he’s a good person by acting kind sometimes, by getting support sometimes, but none of that is true. His actions are what matter and his actions are simplistically bad.” 

“Ohhhh. So then does that mean this story is really about the creation of a villain?” 

“Huh?” 

“Well, Ruby. She’s ‘nuanced’ in the same way. She acts kind sometimes and gets support, but her actions are terrible. She endangered an entire city because she couldn’t wait to see if Ironwood got his letter. She condemned Ozpin for keeping secrets about Salem and then kept those same secrets just two days later. When the kingdom was under attack she sat around drinking tea, crying on a staircase, just hoping someone would come fix things for her  — all while actively sabotaging the one person who was trying to save people, even if that action seems silly to us (let’s fly really high). So if we’re looking at the impact of someone’s actions outside of their intent, as we just did with Ironwood, then she’s a bad guy too, yeah?” 

“No! She’s the hero!” 

“... these characters don’t know she’s the hero from a meta perspective. If we’re supposed to judge the meaning of RWBY based on these details — ” 

“But it’s not just the details. It’s also the allusions. Everyone in RWBY is based on another person or character. It’s very complex and that inspiration drives their story, so if you don’t have that information it’s no surprise you’re confused. For example, this is why Penny had to get a human body. That’s what happened to Pinocchio!” 

“Oh! So then Ironwood is destined to be a good guy!” 

“What?” 

“Well, you just said the allusions drive their stories, right? The whole point of the Tin Man is that he always had a heart and just needed to realize that. So clearly — “ 

“No! He’s supposed to be a classic dictator, he’s only bad!” 

And ‘round and ‘round we go. RWBY’s writing is atrocious yet the fandom pushes this narrative that it’s all a complex, multi-layered story that requires taking every part into account to understand the “real” message... but when you try to do that with certain characters like Ozpin and Ironwood it’s, “No, actually, they’re just simple archetypes of Bad Men.” Nuance exists for the bees, but not other ships. It exists for the characters fans like, but not the ones they don’t. And RWBY’s inspirations have to predict the ending for this character... but not that other character. It’s a nonsense grab bag! 

Fans are right that Ironwood had a lot of red flags to set up this downfall. Fans are also right that those red flags were severely undercut, thus reversing their impact. Fans are right that Ironwood becomes a 100% bad guy who kills because he can and threatens to bomb a city. Fans are also right that this characterization feels absurd for Ironwood, both in terms of his morality and his intelligence (how does bombing Mantle help you now??) Ironwood is badly written. He was badly written in 7 and 8, if he was always meant to be a dictator in the making then he was badly written in 2-6, and he’s conclusively badly written when it comes to lacking a backstory and a canonical semblance  — two things are are supposedly driving all of this characterization. That’s the answer: not that he’s good, or bad, but that RWBY can’t write a consistent character, let alone a nuanced one, so it’s no surprise the fandom can’t decide on anything. What’s there to decide on? It’s that nonsense grab bag. In a different show I think making the dictator appear cool would be a crucial bit of commentary, but RWBY doesn’t have the skill to pull that off. 

[ghosthan]

what would you say are the differences between 616 Tony and MCU Tony? 🤔

Hi anon! Many people have talked about this and I'm certainly not the authority on the topic, but I’ll try my best to explain some of the major differences that I have noticed! Thank you for asking and I’m sorry it took me so long to answer you.

Important to note: neither version of Tony has had a totally consistent characterization. Depending on who you ask and which comics/movies they've consumed, they might give you a different answer here and not be wrong.

616 Tony is even harder to put into one box because his character has been around since Tales of Suspense in the 1950s. That’s a long time. Things have changed over time, under different writers, changing political atmospheres, and outside pop culture influence (including influence from the MCU, unfortunately, in recent years.) You get the picture. So I’ll be making some generalizations and try to be clear about which eras I’m speaking when I make these comparisons, but ultimately, if someone wanted to be contrarian, you could probably refute a lot of what I say here if you cherry pick canon. Which is fair enough! That’s sort of the fun of comics, there’s so much to choose from and something for everyone.

So here are some observations from me, under the ‘read more’.

1. Physical Appearance

This is sort of an easy one, but worth mentioning!

MCU Tony does not look like 616 Tony. RDJ is great, but he would not be most 616 fans’ casting choice on looks alone. MCU Tony is tan, a Malibu man, with brown hair and brown eyes, and RDJ has sort of round facial features (a funny sloped nose, big, round eyes, round forehead, not a particularly sharp or classically “superhero masculine” face.) As you may know, this lends well to certain fanworks and tropes, such as Tony having Bambi eyes.

Or Tiny Tony. He is not actually canonically small, but he's smaller in the MCU than in 616 and from what I can tell, a portion of fandom has latched onto that. He’s a grown man, but RDJ is pretty short, and of slighter build than 616 Tony. RDJ is 5′9, but they make him act in heels, and I believe his canon MCU height is 5′11. Another popular trope I’ve seen is shrinking Tony in fanfic/fanart for a dramatized height difference with Steve, making him weak or fragile; this is fine because everyone has their own taste, but for the official record, he’s a capable, strong guy! Especially in earlier stages of the MCU, in which he’s a bit younger. Tony isn’t just a brain; he carries out his plans with his own two hands! He builds his armor, he remodels his lab, he survives hand to hand combat when he doesn’t have the armor. Muscles!

616 Tony is 6′1 without armor and 6′6 in armor (making him taller than his 616 Steve counterpart in armor and very close to the same height out of armor!) 616 Tony is generally paler with black hair (sometimes the classic blue-black I love so much) and blue eyes, and it obviously depends on the artist, but he has a pretty typically ‘masculine’ face and build. Generally he is drawn with a squared jaw and a high bridged nose (such as in the Extremis storyline, or drawn by Marquez), but again, this varies from artist to artist! Here's some examples of 616 Tonys.

Wait, you might be saying, but I have seen comic panels where Tony has brown hair/brown eyes!

Yep. Due to a combination of forgetfulness, inconsistency, and the MCU bleeding into the general consciousness of the comics, sometimes Tony is randomly depicted in the image of RDJ, or if not in his image, at least visually inspired by the MCU-- hair color and style, eye color, dialogue, etc.

616 fans don’t typically love this; he’s very handsome when drawn this way, of course, (look at him!) But it isn’t really the same character.

Also, MCU Tony has (at least for some of his movies) a reactor built into his chest. While 616 Tony has, at times, been more or less physically connected/dependent to his tech, he doesn’t have the built in reactor (most generally speaking, there are times in comics when he temporarily has the tech built in, but this isn’t really the status quo.)

2. Relationship with parents/ family history

While it is definitely implied in the MCU that Howard was not a good father to Tony, (such as in Iron Man 2 when Tony says “You're talking about a man whose happiest day of his life was shipping me off to boarding school” and “He was cold, calculating, never told me he loved me, never even told me he liked me”), Tony has a different sort of attitude toward Howard in MCU than in 616. It’s kind of weird, and hard to discuss. To me, it seems implied that MCU Howard was emotionally abusive to Tony based on what Tony does say about his childhood, and yet, the films kind of randomly give Howard weird moments of “Well, he tried his best and deep down he loved me the whole time!” forgiveness. MCU has a Howard kink and I'm very cringe-face emoji about it.

For example, Iron Man 2 shows that old film reel of Howard talking about how Tony is the greatest thing he ever created, and in Endgame, when Tony goes back in time, he meets Howard and has a very weird interaction with him in which Howard declares he would do anything for his son, (to his deeply damaged son who is a new father himself.) Yet, for all his talk, it's his actions that speak, and his actions left Tony damaged, traumatized, and emotionally inept at forming healthy relationships. So.

Sorry. I’m a little bitter. I'm just uncomfortable with how they sort of set up an abuse history but then treated it kind of lightly and Howard gets off the hook as "well, he tried his best" without really acknowledging the hurt he caused.

Avengers: Endgame 2019

I won't go super in depth into the abuse stuff because it's a little touchy and could take up a lot of this post. But.

I’m not against any reconciliation and I do appreciate the fact that a lot of times, victims of abuse feel a desire to forgive and reconnect with their abuser-- my issue with the MCU depiction of Tony and Howard is that Tony never really gets the vindication of his abuse being recognized for what it was before he forgives Howard. To me, that’s not forgiveness as kind of... gaslighting himself that it wasn't as bad as he remembered his own experience being, because of a sense of nostalgia and grief. It’s not the same, and I have issues with it.

However, a lot of my opinion is based on subtext and it is just my opinion; with depictions of abuse, different people are going to react differently, and other people may have found these scenes touching and gotten something positive out of them, and that's totally fine too!

It’s also a bit difficult to talk about Tony’s relationship with Howard in 616, for a few reasons: shifting timelines, lots of canon that I have not read all of, and the fact that it really is difficult to sum up such a complicated relationship.

Right off the bat, I’ll address the basics. I used the same scene in another ask, and I think it's frequently cited in any meta regarding Howard, but in Iron Man Vol. 1, we see more into Tony’s childhood and see Howard verbally abusing his family, drunk, at the dinner table.

Iron Man Vol. 1 #285

We get this scene with adult Tony’s retrospective commentary on how his own issues that he blamed himself for were actually a cycle starting with his father, the insecurity and abuse and alcohol, and that he realizes how much this has influenced him. Both MCU Tony and 616 Tony have some form of “stop the cycle of shame” arcs, but I don’t really see how this works narratively in the MCU because Tony makes excuses for Howard and continues to blame himself for a lot of his own personal struggles, whereas I think there’s just a bit more nuance in 616.

But uh. This isn’t totally true, and in recent years, things got real weird. I choose to ignore this chapter of canon, but in the Dan Slott run, Tony Stark: Iron Man, Tony’s whole backstory gets imploded. For one thing, the little of Tony’s childhood it shows in a flashback is uh. Uh. Well, it’s certainly out of character compared with previous 616 material, depicting Tony as an overly confident poor sport.

Basically, Tony is adopted. Tony has an evil brother. Tony’s biological parents make an appearance, as do his ‘classic’ parents, Howard and Maria. It’s just weird. It’s kind of out there. I’m honestly not a huge fan of this and ignore a lot of it, but it is certainly a difference between MCU and 616.

3. Personality

I’m going to be very general. Both Tony’s have an outer self which they present to the public and an inner self, but they’re a bit different. Both Tony’s have struggled with self loathing, but I think MCU Tony’s actual self worth is a bit higher, even just at some points in time. Even if his ego is part of his facade, I think he does believe some amount of the “I’m awesome”, even if just when it applies to his own work/inventions/saving people. Not to say that these moments of fluctuating self esteem make him egotistical, but this combined with his egotistical act and snarky, non-stop sassy dialogue, he’s quite different in general personality from 616 Tony, who is much more reserved.

Some more recent iterations of 616 Tony have been adapted to reflect the snark of the MCU, but he’s not so snarky and he tends to approach things more seriously. This is not a dis on MCU Tony; I think MCU Tony uses false ego and excessive sassy jokes as a means to deflect and control, which I think is very interesting and it’s nice to see this explored more in depth in fic where you get to see the thought process behind the bravado. MCU Tony is a partier, a good times guy, especially during Iron Man 2, in which he really does disregard consequences to have fun (driving his race car, partying drunk in his suit, letting pretty  girls play with the armor, shooting off repulsor blasts for fun in a crowded room); I’m not bashing MCU Tony-- I think he had psychologically understandable reasons for behaving this way, the man was dying-- but 616 Tony really doesn’t act this way generally, and I think it’s a personality difference more than a difference of one being “better.”

616 Tony handles his stress differently, and they just have different psychological patterns, I think. I’m coming up kind of blank trying to think of a good comparable 616 arc, (sorry, I’m brain dead) but a less-than-perfect  example might be Tony’s brain delete arc; he’s “dying”, like in Iron Man 2 he  knows his expiration date, (circumstances are quite  a bit different), but he throws himself more into work, into a cause, and as he really fall apart, we  see him spiral into self doubt, remorse, fear, and insecurity, sort of falling into  himself with lots of manly tears and calling himself pathetic.

(Some things happen in this arc that a lot of people find Gross. I also find these events gross. But. I don’t count the sex in “World’s Most Wanted” as partying to cope with personal mortality, because I think both character involved are in “end of the world” mode, and it’s more seeking intimacy for comfort than partying to numb the hurt. Does this distinction make sense? No? Perfect, moving on.) 616 Tony is generally much more humble.

Whereas MCU Tony, I think, tries to outrun those feelings via parties or making dozens of new suits, or seeking comfort by comforting others! Gifting things to people, building things for people, highly personalized individual living quarters, teaching Nebula games and trying to show her a fun time when they were in peril together.

They have some traits in common, for sure! But canon being inconsistent both in the MCU and in 616, my observations aren’t the rule, because I’m kind of cherry picking and going based on limited memory. But off the top of my head, they’re both extravagant gift givers! Recall Tony gifting Pepper the giant bunny in Iron Man 3, and compare this with Tony carrying a mile high pile of Christmas gifts after shopping with Rumiko in Iron Man Vol. #3.

I would say that while both Tony Starks are considered humanitarians, this is much more fleshed out and supported by canon in 616. Some examples of his philanthropy in the MCU: Tony makes charitable donations of art and money, Tony has an organization which provides disaster relief/cleanup which is referenced in Spider-Man Homecoming, Tony has an MIT grant for students and staff members. But to be honest, a lot of his MCU philanthropy is only mentioned in passing, or is largely handled by other people on his behalf and on his dollar.

In 616, we see Tony using charity almost as a means of therapy: it’s something he does very privately, not in the public eye (at least, not always), and it’s something deeply personal to him. One example that immediately comes to mind is Tony’s home for disadvantaged girls in Iron Man Vol. 3, and we see scenes of Tony basically driving the streets at night, picking up underage prostitutes, feeding them and listening to their stories before bringing them to a home he’s established where he knows all the residents, and provides educational opportunities and protection.

Another more recent example in canon that the Tony fandom loves is that Tony canonically holds babies at an orphanage. Sorry I don’t have panels for all of this, this section got long and I have been working on answering this ask in a very scattered way for a very long time.

Both Tony’s are romantics, I literally could write a whole other post about their canon love life similarities and differences, but I will briefly say that while MCU Tony does the long on and off, and eventual ultimate commitment, to Pepper Potts, 616 Tony is a serial monogamist; he is always falling in love, and he’s definitely not a playboy, but the hero-ing, self loathing, and lifestyle make it very hard for him to keep anyone in his life, and most of his partners fuck his life up and betray him. Needless to say, 616 Tony is not married, and certainly not to Pepper Potts.

Oh, and I guess this is so obvious I almost forgot to include it, but a huge similarity between both iterations of Tony is that they both constantly use their own life as a bargaining chip, and will pretty much die for anything. Or be the bad guy for a good reason (at least, in his own mind... see Civil War, or Hickmanvengers; 616 Tony, especially, does not shy away from making the hard decisions, and this leads to a lot of guilt and tension in his  relationships-- often with Steve because 616 Steve/Tony angst fans are well fed, I guess)

Remember that time Tony had Steve’s mind wiped because Tony felt that Steve’s inflexible morality might hinder the Illuminati’s ability to save the world? And it eats Tony up inside and erupts into a homicidal fight when Steve finally gets his memory back? Me too.

Tony Stark as a character is defined by sacrifice, both of his own life but also of his own happiness and reputation and conscience, I think, in a lot of ways, and we see this in many universes. I could go on about Tony’s propensity for sacrifice in the less obvious ways, because I think in terms of heroic sacrifice, Tony has done a lot that other heroes wouldn’t be able to do because of moral inflexibility and conflicting philosophical schools of thought; Tony really is the “whatever it takes” type, and often believes the ends justify the means if he deems a threat worse than the potential wrong that could be done in preventing the threat. We see this a little bit in the MCU in the creation of Ultron, and in Civil War with the Accords. But there’s a whole lot more going on there I don’t want to get into.

4. Alcohol

MCU Tony’s alcoholism is never really explicitly explored. He is shown drinking in Iron Man 1, and in Iron Man 2 he drinks a lot and makes a fool of himself publicly, but MCU Tony doesn’t get any specific narrative arc focused on his drinking, and if I recall correctly, I don’t think he ever refers to his drinking as alcoholism in the movies? Also, while his binge drinking and embarrassing behaviors ostensibly stop after the events of Iron Man 2, he is shown drinking on screen at least one other time after that which I can remember, and it wasn’t a “falling off the wagon” moment, and an alcoholic in recovery such as 616 Tony would not take a drink casually. This article sheds a little light on some decisions made about Tony and alcohol in the MCU.

Alcoholism is a huge part of 616 Tony’s personality, which I went a bit more into depth about in this post, so I won’t repeat myself too much.

5. Their relationships with the Iron Man armor

A few points here: MCU Tony is famous for the “I am Iron Man” line being repeated throughout the franchise after he blows his own secret in the end of the first movie. MCU Tony sees himself as one with Iron Man, and the suit is the tech that enables him to be this version of himself. He sees Tony Stark and Iron Man as inextricable: you cannot separate them, and his identity is public. He, as Tony Stark, is an Avenger.

You may remember MCU Tony’s induction into the Avengers; in Iron Man 2, Nick Fury is forming the Avengers and tasks the Black Widow with going undercover to assess Tony to be a part of a hypothetical initiative. “Iron Man yes, Tony Stark no” and the comments about Tony as a narcissist may be funny, but the fact is, the snark and erratic personality of MCU Tony at the time of the formation of the Avengers in the movies is not at all like the Tony of the comics, at the time of the Avengers being formed. 

In 616, things are quite a bit different! Tony invents the Iron man armor to save himself (like in the MCU) and uses it for hero-ing, but in secret. He works very hard to protect his identity as Iron Man, and for a long time, as far as the world is concerned, Iron man is a mystery man piloting armor built by Tony, hired as Tony’s personal body guard, (hence the 616 Steve/Tony fandom’s proclivity for identity porn as a trope!) When the Avengers form, Iron Man is the Avenger, close friends with the Avengers, (particularly Steve!) and Tony Stark is just the benefactor of the Avengers, providing them with a place to live and finances with which to operate.

In the very early days, Tony did not have the “reactor” like in the MCU, but his chest plate did keep him alive, leading to some very dramatic shots of Tony charging up using a wall socket, lamenting the plight of a secret hero.

616 Tony, generally, and especially in some of these earlier comics, was quite reserved, rather serious, and very angsty, (in private of course.) He may be wealthy, but speaking generally, he’s much less ostentatious than MCU Tony, less of a show off, less into flashy things and grand gestures. Of course, this isn’t always true in the comics, and some iterations of Tony are more like this than others, but MCU Tony is showier, sillier, and more of a fun-times guy. Any MCU fan would find those panels quite contrary to the Tony Stark you know:

Iron Man 1

Iron Man 2

I think I would say that while MCU Tony sees himself and the Iron Man identity and the  armor as all being inextricably connected, we see a bit more compartmentalization with 616 Tony, who pretends that the armor is a whole separate person for years when his identity was private, and we see instances in older and newer comics, in which Tony  is uncomfortable with some aspect of himself as Iron Man (for instance, during the second drinking arc, Tony temporarily swears off being Iron Man entirely, or for another example, when Tony is in a comma and Tony AI exists during Secret Empire, Tony “lives” in the Iron Man suit, and I think this could be interpreted as a meta parallel to Steve during this arc; Steve has had some core aspect of his character inverted, Captain America becoming Captain Hydra, so Tony experiences a similar inversion-- Tony Stark and Iron Man are forcibly merged, in a way that Tony seems deeply uncomfortable with, if his digital drinking relapse is any indication. But I digress; sorry for the tangent.)

Okay this post is inexcusable long, and very, very tangential, and I don’t feel like I’ve really covered everything I wanted to. But it has been sitting in my inbox for too long and if I don’t post it now I never will, so I hope this long, rambling thing has been a little bit helpful to you! Thank you so much for asking, I had a lot of fun rambling about this.

If you want to read a similar post, but well written and organized, with other insights, this post by Sineala answers a similar question!

[springsteenicious]

I don't think any Donna fan thinks Donna's flawless. But, -leaving aside that it’s fair that Donna fans would rather not focus on her flaws since everyone else in fandom is already talking shit about her- I think the fact that it comes out like that is an after-effect of trying to have character debates on tumblr. It’s also the reason why we should really go back to forums. See, this happens in practically every fandom : …

… 1. Fandom decides to hate a character to death, to the point of making those who do like the character uncomfortable. 2. Fans of the character try to do a proper analysis of the character acknowledging both their virtues and flaws. 3. Haters dismiss the virtues, take the flaws as munity and double on them 4. Fans give up on having respectful conversations about the character's flaws and instead try to explain and defend everything about them in an attempt of shooing away the haters. …

… I'll talk about HP since it's one of the biggest fandoms out there. Ron bashing was HUGE back in the day and it still goes on. Fans –mainly Dramione and Harmony fans, don’t think I need to explain why– went on like a broken record about what a dumb, jealous, insecure dirty coward Ron was and how these were all unforgivable flaws for which Ron should stay far away from the group and hopefully die. …

… Ron fans obviously didn't like that and tried to give perspective, pointing out that while some of those things (not all of them) were true, Ron also had many good qualities that made him a great person to have around. But bashers didn't want to talk about Ron's good side, and instead doubled on his insecurity, which Ron fans had admitted to be there. So what did Ron fans do? They started to blame everyone else for Ron's insecurity. ...

... Now it's Hermione's, Harry's and the Weasley's fault for subtly abusing Ron through his life, and any agency he may over his mistakes is erased. Hermione shouldn't have talked about other boyfriends in front of Ron, Ginny should never pick a fight with her big brother, etc. Not everyone takes this stance, but bottom line is that now there's an "anti-Hermione” tag, which would've been unheard of back then. …

… Again, this happens in every fandom. Why? ‘Cause in tumblr it's very easy to come across unproperly tagged character hate, and it's open for everyone to see. But in a forum, everyone's a fan of the same character. No one's scared about admitting their fave's flaws, ‘cause everyone there loves the character and are glad to discuss them in a caring way. And if a hater appears, the mods can block them. Anyway, I'm excited to read your meta!! (Man I really need to make an acc for these things)

Thanks for sharing this!

This is going to sound like a 'not-all-men' argument (which, blech), but... I don't think this happens in EVERY fandom. Most television/movie fandoms, yes, but not all. When I was in the IT fandom, all seven losers were appreciated. Mike and Ben sometimes got hate because of the fans' racism or fatphobia, but that wasn't the fandom deciding to hate their characters for the actual characterization. We were all focused on hating Pennywise and Bowers and Eddie's mom. At least, when I was in the fandom that was the case. Don't know what it's like now.

I used to be interested in Harry Potter. I read all the books, watched all the movies, was even active in the Marauders section of the fandom briefly. Then I got a little older and I learned about JKR's blatant and terrible transphobia, and I stopped participating in the fandom completely. JKR's transphobia really turned me away from the whole HP universe. So I have no way of verifying any of this, but I'm sure you're right. It sounds about right. And, again, I was into the Marauders, and that was all just Peter Pettigrew and Snape hate.

I'm not personally afraid of haters. I have a lot of ways to destroy people with words and be really mean when I want to, so I'm not scared of people sending asks that hate on Donna.

Also, yeah, Tumblr sucks. It's great, but it also sucks. The website itself has some... design flaws. And you can block people on this site too, but it's hard to if they're an anon. And even when you've blocked someone, you can still see their account and posts and they can still interact with you through reblogs. I know because I had someone blocked for good reason, then they reblogged a post of mine (we're in the same fandom) and past events had to repeat themselves, much to my dismay. I just have to try and stay away from that account now because I can't rely on Tumblr blocking them from my dash/notifications.

But despite stuff like that, I really do like Tumblr. I've met some really cool people, in both this fandom and the classic rock fandom, for which I have another account. So if you're thinking of making an account, I say go for it! As far as fandoms go, That 70s Show has a pretty good one. The bigger accounts in the fandom are all run by super kind, creative, awesome people and I'm really glad I've gotten to know some of them 😊