#whereas d&d not only expected me to like jon but also view him as a hero

[iheartbookbran]

tbh I think my visceral dislike for Criston Cole goes beyond him being an unlikeable piece of shit but rather that his presence in my tv triggers an everpresent but usually dormant form of Show!Jon Snow PTSD where there’s a man on my screen who is consistently incompetent at his job yet somehow ends up being promoted at every turn and without question. also he’s the direct cause of a Targaryen woman’s life being ruined.

[ultrahpfan5blog]

My very belated thoughts on Game of Thrones and season 8 in particular

I feel like I have a somewhat unique perspective on GoT. The show has been such a pop culture phenomenon that I feel that fans have been invested in it for years, either having been book fans who watched the show, or those having watched the show for the better part of a decade. For me, I was never a part of the fandom because I never watched the show until it was in season 7. The books sound great but because I can’t stand reading incomplete series, I have never read them, and at this point, it just feels unlikely that GRRM will end up finishing the series. That sucks because its just the sort of fiction that I would love. I started watching GoT in season 7, and then in season 8. Obviously, I had very little clue what was going on other than the broad strokes and I was watching purely because the spectacle and scale was something I had never seen before on tv. On that front alone it was entertaining. Given the incredibly divisive reaction, I didn’t feel like spending the amount of hours required to watch the show from scratch, but because covid ended up impacting so many ongoing tv shows and movies, I ended up deciding to give it a go. I started a couple of months ago and just finished season 8 a couple of days ago. Its been quite an experience, belated as it may be.

I still feel that I view the show differently than a lot of people. Obviously, its a very different emotional commitment for me, having watched the show in 2 months whereas other have watched the show for about 10 years. Having not read the books, I don’t have the issue of comparing the quality of the books to the show. And given I saw season 8, I watched the show with the ending in mind, so I could understand if the ending made sense to me or not.

On the whole, the show is worth a lot of applause. The production, acting, music, writing, visuals etc... is something I have never seen on tv. Juggling such a huge cast of characters with so many ongoing storylines is an incredible achievement. Say what you will about season 8′s writing, but from a production, scale, and performance standpoint, the show remained stellar all the way through. And for that, I do think D&D deserve credit. I know that is an unpopular thing to say but they still have created something that is truly one of a kind. The show is definitely not perfect, even before season 8. There are storylines that drag, storylines that aren’t given the time they deserve, character developments that don’t completely work etc... but I feel that is part and parcel of every long running show. There are very few that are perfect, and for the sheer complexity of the narrative, its amazing that the show isn’t more convoluted. I do agree that the final 2 seasons are the weakest seasons of the lot. I still think season 7 is very good, and the first half of season 8 I also like a lot, but seasons 1-6 are superb. Its difficult for me the select my favorite season. I suppose season 4 is probably at the top. Its kind of the end of the era season, with the death of Joffrey, Tyrion’s trial, then him leaving Westoros. Arya and Sandor’s time together coming to an end with her traveling to Braavos, death of Tywin, and Jon rising in the ranks of the Nights Watch and becoming a more prominent character in the show. I love seasons 5-6 because of the rise of Jon. Season 2 arc of Tyrion as hand of the King was also excellent. My favorite episodes all come from these seasons. I love the battle episodes, with Blackwater, Hardhome, and Battle of the Bastards being 3 of my favorite eps. The Laws of Gods and Men is another episode I love just for the climax where Peter Dinklage just tears into the scene with his full might. I also loved Pedro Pascal as Oberyn in season 4. He added a unique quality and I was sad to see him not last past season 4. There were a few storylines that I wasn’t completely fond of. The early years of Daenerys weren’t the most compelling, Arya in Braavos was just too slow for my taste, the Littlefinger and Sansa storyline in season 4 also felt like they were treading water and then they backtrack on Sansa’s development in season 5. Also, Staanis was someone who went a little too batshit crazy in his lust for power. Felt a little out of character.

Now, when it comes to season 8, There are a lot of complaints about a lot of things. I will say that the main issue with season 8 is that it crams what should be 2 seasons of storylines and crams it into a single 6 episode season. I think virtually every complaint can be traced back to that. I actually really like episodes 1 and 2. Especially episode 2. Brienne’s knighting is actually very touching. Its great to see characters reuniting and characters meeting for the first time. I know lots of people complained about episode 3 and while its not as good as the other 3 battle episodes that I mentioned before, I still think its excellent. I did not have the lighting problem that others had. I watched it on my laptop and I could see everything. The episode is titled ‘The Long Night’ so I expected things to be dark, but it isn’t as if I had trouble seeing what happened. The episode is incredibly intense and while its a bit difficult o figure out how so many survived and there are some questionable tactics for sure, its still quite a spectacular spectacle. My only issue with the episode is really all Jon related, which I will get back to in a bit. 

I know that Daenerys turning into the mad queen is a huge point of contention for the season. While I absolutely agree that that character arc went from 0 to a 100 way too fast, I don’t think it was completely out of the blue. Knowing the ending, I kept an eye on Daenerys, and I think there are a lot of instances where her first instinct to fixing problems has been to unleash her dragons. She has had characters around her like Selmy, Jorah, later Tyrion, even Daario, who have tempered that instinct somewhat. But that is still a natural instinct for her. Not to mention, in Essos, she was dealing with a fairly black and white issue when it comes to slavery. And she mistakenly thought, her experiences in Essos would translate to Westoros. She came with the idea that the common people would support her without fully processing the idea that she was bringing foreign armies into their land and three dragons, which had not been seen by people for generations. So they had legitimate reasons for fear. So it wasn’t completely out of the blue that she unraveled when confronted with the revelations that she was feared more than she was loved and that she did not have the sort of universal support she thought she would have. Obviously, that was compounded by the losses that she tacked up one after another. Definitely, one more season was required to make that a satisfactory arc, but I don’t think it was completely random. And honestly, once she did what she did in episode 5, she was never going to survive the show. I will say this, Emilia Clarke was outstanding in season 8. She was never the cast member who stood out in seasons past, but season 8 was really her season. While the character development was rushed, she sold every scene and earned her lead actress emmy nomination.

There are some endings which people hated which I understood. Like Jaime’s ending, which people were pretty pissed about, is an ending I quite get. As much as we love the story of redemption, the Cersei and Jaime bond was just too deep and toxic for him to so easily extricate himself. I get why he would be drawn back to her when he knew she was in danger. I think Lena and Nikolaj really sold their final scenes together. I felt for Lena as an actress. As a result of the short season, she really didn’t get much to do all season. Her death scene is really the only time she gets material to chew on. So that was a pity. I think Brienne and Sandor Clegane were two characters for whom their endings were perfect. Brienne becoming a knight of the six kingdoms and Clegane finally getting revenge on his brother was extremely satisfying. Theon’s ending was pretty much perfect. Sansa becoming queen in the North makes sense. The show seemed to be building towards it. Sophie Tuner gets some good material in the final season where you can see that there is a lot happening in her head and not all of it is altruistic. She does have a power hungry side to her, even if she’s not self destructively so. Maisie Williams was strong again. I wasn’t a huge fan of her getting to kill the Night King over Jon but there lots of good moments she has with Jon, Sandor, Gendry, Sansa etc... Bran becoming King of the six Kingdoms is definitely not the greatest ending. I don’t know whose decision it was to turn Bran into a robot and have him do nothing other than sit and stare, but it definitely wasn’t the greatest. I can’t imagine it was a particularly satisfying experience as an actor for Isaac. I did enjoy a couple of moments with him and Jaime, harking back to season 1.

The two other major characters are Tyrion and Jon. Certainly the finale is very heavily centered on those two. I do agree with the notion that they really dumbed down on Tyrion’s intelligence as he makes a lot of wrong moves in the last couple of seasons. But Peter Dinklage the actor has never disappointed. His performance in the finale ranks as one of his finest on the show. There has never been a time when he has not given his all. Him ending up as the hand is pretty effective ending. He is a humbled man, admitting that he’s not as smart as he thought he was. So maybe he would be a better hand as a result of that experience. Jon’s ending is another controversial one. I am in the audience who really wasn’t a fan of how Jon was treated in season 8. Kit Harington was quite poorly served in season 8, which was a bit of a whiplash since Jon was arguably at his most badass in season 5-7 and became a huge a fan favorite. Certainly he took over from Dinklage as the de facto male lead of the show. The character only comes back to life at the very end of episode 5. Part of that is probably the point. That Jon became too bent to Daenerys’ will, as Varys said.to Tyrion. It took Daenerys burning down King’s Landing to wake him up. I get that from a narrative standpoint, buts its dissatisfying from a character perspective when its the final season. Certainly I found it very strange how little role he played in The Long Night, given the White Walker storyline was Jon’s primary storyline on the show. Put aside killing the Night King, a showdown which was promised on the show, he didn’t even do much else in the episode. At the very least he should have gotten to destroy the undead Viserion. The memes about his dialogue in the season aren’t unfounded. But, I will say that Kit Harington is fantastic in the series finale. He arguable has the centerpoint scenes of the finale, the two scenes with Tyrion, and then the scene with Danaerys where he is literally begging her to give him a reason not to kill her and she keeps saying the wrong thing. Certainly Peter and Kit end the season on a high note. Him ending up with the Wildlings seems appropriate because Jon never seemed cut out to be King, nor did he ever want that responsibility. He probably would have been better than Bran, but its a decent enough ending for him. In the end, the way the show ends I was mostly ok with, but the path to getting there should have come with one extra season at least.

In the end, the production and the acting will always be something I will remember. I didn’t even mention great performances from Sean Bean, Charles Dance, Alfie Allen, Stephen Dillane, Conleth Hill, Aiden Gillen, Diana Rigg, Jerome Flynn, Liam Cunningham among many others over the years. So even though I do have issues with the final season, I feel that the good far outweighs the bad when it comes to the show. Its not a show I foresee rewatching any time soon since its one of those shows that requires some digestion and a lot of hours, but I certainly don’t regret the time I gave to it.

[killthebxy-archive]

GIMMIE meta on how Daenerys and Sansa and Arya are going to challenge Jons beliefs when it comes to how he sees what women are 'supposed' to act.

[ @obuljagon ]

okay, this is such a good one — where do i start?

          maybe with something very important: Jon has a very traditional mentality, which naturally comes with being inserted in a medieval society. yes, he is sexist sometimes; yes, he is racist sometimes; yes, he’s narrow minded sometimes. i never shy away from portraying any of this, because this is an important foundation of his personality and values. bastard born or not, he’s Ned Stark’s son and he places honor and duty above most things. 

          on the other hand, Jon is also a rather curious soul, and open to adventure and different sights and people and mentalities — he may know nothing, but he’s quick to learn. for example, he does not consider a woman weak simply for being a woman, nor considers that a woman’s only use is to cook and sew socks and produce children. but he does envision most women as being more fragile than men, and, therefore, in need of protection. again, it’s the society he lives in, and it’s what’s normal to him.

          now, the figures you mention. undoubtedly, Jon is aware that his little sister is not the stereotypical lady. Jon and Arya have always been the closest of the Stark (Snow) children, and part of this is justified by the fact that they are both outcasts, in their own way — Jon is the bastard, Arya is the daughter who loathes sewing and is not good at handwriting or other (considered) girly chores, and she would much rather spar with the boys outside. and he doesn’t love her in spite of this, but BECAUSE of this. he loves that Arya is so independent, so different, so unafraid to break stereotypes and to go for what she loves, rather than what others expect of her. and he clearly encourages it, as shown by gifting Needle to her. even in the later books, when he’s convinced Arya is married to Ramsay, he thinks of her and worries because he can totally see her trying to fight Ramsay like the warrior lady she is. hands down, Arya’s role in his personal conceptions of women is fulcral.

          now, with Sansa. Sansa is much closer to what Westeros considers a “true” highborn lady, this much everyone knows — and Jon has spent most of his life agreeing with this. however, he never disliked Sansa for it — they were never close, but for completely distinct motives. tbh Jon 100% supports women who want to be what they want to be — Arya wants to be a tomboy, great, he supports her; Sansa wants to be a lady, great, he supports her. there is something that Jon learned from Ned and that he says to maester Aemon when trying to convince him to take Sam as his personal steward, right now i do not remember the exact words but it’s around the lines of: every man is different and every man has his use. you cannot hammer tin into steel, but this does not mean tin is useless. which is pretty much his opinion of Sansa and Arya. however, in s07 Sansa is also surprising him (a lot) and opening his horizons — by showing him that a woman can be as good at ruling as any man — which is, precisely, why he chose to leave the North in her hands. not because she is his sister, not because she is a Stark (also, but not only), but because he knows she’s capable of a good job and trusts her with all his heart. Sansa saved his life in the Battle of the Bastards and he has no issue with acknowledging this, and he is also very much aware that she’s far better at playing the game than he is. Jon is too honest and too blunt, he excels at ruling and leading but he has no talent for politics. he rules with the heart, while Sansa rules with the brain, and this is why they are complementar. 

          Dany. okay, so this part will be a bit more based on our own threads/chats, because alas D&D think character development is a waste of time and never gave us much of a decent conversation between them. even so, clearly Daenerys is a challenge to Jon’s beliefs and perspectives. Jon has spent his entire life pretty much at Winterfell only — the books give us no insight, but i personally headcanon that he never traveled south of the Neck, because, even when Ned would visit a lord, it was Robb who traveled along with him, for being the heir and the one in need to learn how to be a diplomat. Dragonstone is his first time ever out of the North, so obviously he’s restricted to the values and habits and traditions of his homeland. whereas Dany, she’s traveled to so many different cities and met so many different folks. by far, she’s seen things Jon never even dreamed existed and she’s familiar with habits he never even considered. therefore, when she shares this with him, it’s only natural that his first reaction will be confusion or even to think it as wrong or unnatural — but he will be willing to listen and to learn, once again. as well, it goes without saying that Dany is the epitome of girl power, to be corny here. indeed, i personally headcanon that Jon fell for Dany not (only) because of the good heart and the pretty face, but because of her “power”, so to call it — you don’t just watch a tiny cute girl mounted on a badass huge dragon who goes off to fight the enemy armies herself and keep your knees unquivering lbr.

          before i end, let me just point out two other names you did not mention but who are essential in this reasoning. first, the Mormont women. Maege Mormont, most of all, but also all her daughters — they are the reason why Jon sees warrior women as natural, despite the usual ladies tradition. because of them, he knows that women can be fierce and strong and blunt and a force to be reckoned with, all the same while still being loving and kind and honorable and loyal and motherly. and, of course… Ygritte. if there is a woman who’s opened Jon’s mind and shaped the manner in which he sees women, it is definitely her. if Jon is who he is nowadays, so preoccupied with the free folk and with being inclusive and saying things like “we’re all on the same side, we’re all breathing”, it is vastly thanks to her. her free-spirited nature clashed completely with his rigid honor (so much that it reduced his vows to dust lmao) and helped him start growing much more empathetic and much more tolerant of the difference. and it taught him to never take a woman for granted, and definitely to never believe that there are things “for men only”.

          then, let me wrap this up by summing up the essential: Jon has some very traditional, very rigid views of what a woman “should be like”, born from his upbringing and his life story and experiences. but he is also very open to the women who are willing to show him that matters aren’t so linear, and he’ll be the first one to praise them and acknowledge them for their achievements. AND. one thing is never changing, this much i can guarantee: even if it is a woman, any woman, thrice his size and thrice as strong as he is, he will still ALWAYS want to protect her. it’s just in his nature, not only towards women but especially towards women.