#well it's not even batwoman anymore isn't it ??

[selanaris]

"I wonder what would've happened if bruce swore off the cowl after Jason died"

- prompt by @nighting-gale17

Hear me out

Bruce hangs the cowl

Him and dick still argue so Nightwing stays with the titans/bludhaven

The rogues progressively get worse and worse

Kate and Barbara are locked in, even Selina is working

Many trying to convince bruce back in. Bruce keeps saying no until he just shuts off the batcave, telling them to leave that life

Tim, he was going to bribe bruce, but instead found the powered off Batcave during a gala

He sets to quickly download everything he can by ripping out the drives and then even taking some random suit pieces he can find. He knows his parents will forget him, so he just heads home.

He grabbed a robin suit, and he went to work editing it, dyeing, etc. Making it all black, maybe a red accent kept.

He will go and take care of gotham

Like an idiot

Barbara yells at him to leave, stop trying to be a solo hero as a kid

Kate, on the other hand, after one failed no, and she just takes him under her wing.

Batwoman and her little crow

Tim often does work on his own, then will call kate whenever he needs to bust down some doors.

Nightwing and batgirl HATE this, hate another kid was brought in

Kate won't even tell them who it is, not like she knows who Crow is anyway.

No evidence, no clues to who crow.

Bruce tried to take the bat symbol from kate, she said he isn't batman anymore, so fuck off.

Gotham is darker now, kate kills, she teaches Crow to kill as well

Barbara can't stop them, and then she gets hurt, and Joker is mysteriously killed in Arkham.

Nothing is the same...

Red hood appears... realizes that batman is gone, and plans change very quickly. He confronts bruce as Jason and demands to know why bruce failed gotham and their mission, the mission that jason died for.

[maribatz-2k]

Day 1: Strange

Max and Kim had the best idea. Which is odd with these two to formulate this kind of idea. Usually it's Nathaniel and Marc who does this kind of thing but here goes nothing.

Confused? Here lets explain. Summer after the most boring freshman year of highschool, Max was sitting at home reading over comic books with Markov instead of programming his latest invention. Well Kim had visited that afternoon and stared at the piles of comics on Max's table. After a couple pondering on what do while his friend just read, Kim decided to join him. Another hour and the pile now relocated to the side of the couch the boys looked bored. Kim looked to Max and then at the comics and back to Max.

"I got it!" He exclaimed.

"Got what?" Max asked, adjusting his glasses confused.

"We need Nathaniel and Marc for this! Oh and Mari and Adrian and Alya and..."

"Get on with it." Max cut him off glaring at him.

"Okay! So hear me out. We go outside dressed up as these comic characters we were just reading about and do a spoof video on them!" Kim stood up excited with his smart plan.

"And why?" Max asked.

"Because! We're so bored! And there isn't anymore comics to read. Plus! I'm sure Marinette would have so much fun also doing the costumes. And! Since ours friends have been separate all summer and will be back next month it be so much fun!" Max thought this over before nodding.

"Alright let's do it! I'll text everyone and see what happens." Kim threw his fist in the air in victory as Max sent a group text to his friends, instantly receiving a screen full of "Hell yeah!" It was set and stone and everyone video chatted the details.

A month later, everyone was at the park setting up the camera, sound system, and a dressing area (courtesy of Mari). Everyone took turns changing into their respective costumes, even mari was dressed up. Everyone stood to around the video camera preparing for the Nino to shout action and Alya made sure to get a group and individual photos.

"Alright everyone! It's time to get ready!" Nino shouted and everyone moved to their designated locations. "And Action." Alya, dressed up as BatWoman, moved into the center followed by Alix who's dressed up as Flash. Alix ran circles around Alya before she stuck her foot out and tripped Flash with a hefty chuckle.

Everyone stepped forward forming two groups for a fight scene. Flash had Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman, Robin, Aquaman, and Cyborg, where Batwoman had Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Black Canary, Starfire, Raven, and Night Wing. The teams were not exactly the same, but oddly enough, it fit according to Max and Nathaniel. As the scene played out and they recorded their fight scene three times (due to people laughing too much), Marc called it for lunch. No one wanted to change so they all just spend the day in their costumes. Marc and Nathaniel were the Riddler and Scarecrow as Nino dressed into his costume the butler of Bruce Wayne. Nino continued to keep his camera rolling as they walked around. Each person went off and did their own crazy things on their way to get food.

Mari walked with Adrien watching everyone goof off and enjoy themselves. Chloe and Sabrina holding hands talking about their vacation, Zoé hung with Luka talking, and Rose was gushing over Juleka's figure in the purple leotard and gold belt. Myléne and Ivan watched as Alix, Kim, and Alya jumped around on anything they could see and run around. Mari was thankful of her friends to have invited her and spend the nice warm day together. Or at least it was, until for some reason the sky was no longer blue but covered in puffy grey clouds and she was no longer standing on the sidewalk but on the roof of a very high building.

"What the hell?"

"Ah not again!" Two loud voices yelled from behind her making her jump out of fright. She turned around to see another teenager dressed just like her completely identical to her costume. That's eerie. The kid stepped forward with an irritated scowl arms crossed over his chest. The man next to him was just an inch or two smaller in width, clad in black and red a black utility belt. With two gold belts crossed and clicked together by a gold circle buckle or button and what looks like...feathers? For a cape. They both worse domino masks that completely covered the eyes.

"Who are you?" The copy cat asked her in a demanding tone. Marinette scowled at the question and crossed her arms in return.

"N'est-ce pas évident. Je suis Robin. Et tu sembles être un fan aussi d'après tes vêtements." She waves her hand at him raising a brow her mask moving with. "C'est pas mal quand même. Celui qui a conçu votre costume est exquis. Ils ont définitivement un bon œil." She stepped forward and moving around the teen inspecting his suit. Lifting the cape to take in the martials. Displeased he ripped the fabric away and practically hissed at her.

"Don't touch me." Robin growled out. Red Robin just watched the interaction curiously as he opened his comms to report in. Without warning, Batman landed down and walked up behind Red with Red Hood freezing up to see a smaller copy of Robin. The kid had short obviously gelled slick raven hair and well, boobs. Batman took a step forward kicking a piece of concrete grabbing both attention of the Robins.

"Ah bon Adrien tu es là!" The female copy said making Hood laughing suddenly. Night wing appeared in the other side of the building with BatWoman completely lost in the sight. The copy turns to look at the new people exclaiming. "Whoa Luka et Alya sont là aussi! Dieu merci, je ne suis pas seul dans cet endroit bizarre." The female let out a sigh of relief. Hood coughs coming back to earth from his fit and took control of the scene.

"Hey little miss. I'm sorry but we do not understand what you are saying." Hood said kneeling down more to her height. Unaware he just sinned.

Marinette looked at the man in the helmet trying understand what he said then realized he spoke English. But then he did the unthinkable. He lowered his 6'2" giant self down to her level making her feel smaller than she was. She pushed him with as much force she could muster and growled watching him fall over onto his ass.

"Don't treat me like a kid you over grown giant! I'm seventeen and average height!" Her french accent apparent. Red Robin (she remembered finally!) and the ones she assumed were Luka and Alya laughed at Hood for "falling." "I'm sorry, from this moment, I assume that I am not back in Paris am I?" She finally asked. Batman shook his head.

"No, you are in Gotham." The copy cat Robin says. After a couple blinks she speaks.

"It's real?!" She moves over to the edge of the building and looks down taking in the sites. "oh merde..." Mari's hands came to cover her face before dragging them down taking her eyes and lips with her.

"Yes Gotham is real, why wouldn't it be?" The real Robin states. With a heavy sigh, Marinette turns around and removes her domino mask to answer.

"Because you guys are in a comic book or books and on TV." She says, deadpanning. This time they blinked.

"Welp, this is strange.." Red Robin said.

@maribatserver

[bxtwcman]

everytime a new information about batw.oman comes out i wanna cry.

[danny-chase]

Do u think Cass should've stayed Batgirl even during the Dickbats run

This is hard for me because I don't really like the direction they went in canon and it's hard to form a good answer of where I would want her to go. And at this point it's kinda popular to just say "Cass should have been Batman" but I do think it's not quite that simple.

Starting at the beginning, a big issue was not even bothering to bring her into Battle for the Cowl, which is frustrating because she would have been a really good candidate for Batman and if you want Dick to still be Batman after this event, you would need to deal with Cass's desire and commitment to the Batman mythos and legacy after this. I think the one point that Dick has over Cass in why he should be Batman is that he is much more able to fool the older criminals into believing that Batman didn't die or whatever (although I haven't read the arc where Bruce Batman died, apparently it was in the news(?), but there is an arc in Batman where Dick gaslights Harvey Dent into believing the man under the mask hasn't changed - and while this works for some of them it doesn't work for all of them, like the joker - which... could have been for the best tbh). This is based solely on the fact that Dick has several inches on Cass and probably about 75-100 pounds.

I do think fandom tends to misinterpret Cass's desire to be Batman and limit it to being BatMAN or BatWOMAN when her commitment is the to the Bat not the gender role (and side note, if I had Cass inherit Bruce's position/legacy i think "The Bat" would actually be a very good codename for her) or the mantle. I think of the time where Bruce asked her if she was committed to Barbara or him and she just pointed to the bat symbol and said "this". I think to her the symbol is more important than the mantle itself (although she does understand the importance of mantles when it comes to Batgirl being something that was important to Barbara). That's my interpretation of the character, and I could def be wrong though.

Now with this being said, her reason for giving up Batgirl is kinda flimsy and wasn't explored very much. She's basically like, Steph needs it and then leaves. Which... there could have been a lot more there if the writers had acknowledged this as maybe some sort of an apology? Because she did make mistakes in her relationship with Steph before Steph died in war games and took Bruce's stance that Steph wasn't good enough to be a vigilante, and that hurt Steph and their relationship. Both arcs where Cass has quit the batfamily due to being disillusioned have not been well written and though it could make for an interesting premise I think it would need to be built up better beforehand, because of her intense dedication to the bat mythos. I think it would have been more impactful if Cass in reaction to Steph coming back tried to give Steph the mantle, but Steph didn't accept and Batgirl (2009) was actually Spoiler (2009) and had Steph as Spoiler - because that's the mantle she was the most disrespected in, so it would have been narratively satisfying to see her kicking ass as Spoiler and getting respect in that mantle from Damian/Barbara/Dick/Tim/Bruce (especially Bruce and Tim - both of whom have tried firing her from being Spoiler).

Now as for Cass herself, I can see her either staying as Batgirl or moving onto a new mantle such as Black Bat or The Bat. In either situation, if she stays in Gotham, I think the Dickbats era would have gone a bit differently because Cass strikes just as much fear into the hearts of common criminals as Bruce did. I think eventually it would be less necessary for Dick to go out as Batman so much and eventually he could start being Nightwing again in the meantime (still with Damian) because Cass would effectively be making appearances as "the big bad batman" without needing to be the "batman". I would have liked to eventually reach a place where having a "Batman" just isn't necessary for Gotham anymore 🙏

As for whether this should have happened or not, or which direction DC should have taken the character... well I don't know, I'll leave that up to whatever you find the most compelling

[ihassheepquake]

DC's Batwoman 3.11 "Broken Toys" has aired on the CW and I'm here to talk about it

We're not going to talk about how I'm later than normal.

I feel like it's been a while since we heard from Vesper Fairchild. Of course, she's talking about my least favourite bitch Jada Jet. But nice to see Mary back with the Bats for real!

I think I've said this before but I'm really not here for the whole Joker 2.0 plot. There are so many better villains to make a 2.0 of and be a better main villain.

Poor Mary is so clearly not doing good. Maybe she should go to therapy?

Can Sophie get a superhero I.D. please? Idk who but I want her to be a superhero and kick-ass alongside Ryan.

Marquis isn't even coming up with a good Joker plan.

I'm excited to see how Alice and Mary's dynamic continues and evolves now. They were so fun with Poison Mary but now that Mary is just Mary, that's going to change some stuff.

Ryan has come to fuck up Jada Jet, as she should. Jada is a problem and she needs to be dealt with.

I forgot that I kinda like this Zsasz. He's kinda fun. And feels pretty accurate.

Alice is scared of what the buzzer being fixed would mean for her. If it can fix Joker 2.0, who knows. Maybe it can "fix" Alice. Which I don't think would work for a variety of reasons, including the fact that Alice was driven mad under very different circumstances and as a defence mechanism. But I think it makes sense for Alice to be afraid of that after everything with Kate back in season 1.

Ryan probably could've done that whole Zsasz fight without revealing that she's Batwoman considering the whole thing with her being a trained and certified martial arts teacher, but sure.

I think Kiki, and now also Mary to a certain degree, represent a truth about healing and recovering that Alice doesn't want to accept.

Completely forgot that Luke and Sophie were breaking into Wayne. Really forgettable C plot I guess.

Yes Ryan, read that bitch to hell and back! Fuck Jada Jet, I hope she doesn't come back next season. This bitch pulling the whole "maybe I did the best thing for you by abandoning you" card. Fuck that.

So I really read this Kiki bitch wrong. I do think I'm correct about how Alice sees her, but this bitch is still quite crazy.

Marquis is way too fucking cocky with this whole "I've got all your friends and I'm gonna kill them" thing considering one of those people is a supervillain gang leader, one is a superhero, and another is ex-Military (who's probably the most capable of the entire Bat Team). Mary might not be those things but she's clearly shown to be competent in her own right. Two of those four are also with Batwoman at this exact moment in time. I don't know why he expected this to go well for him.

The question is, has the Lucius Fox AI been fucked with by Marquis already?

Alice wants to be Beth again?? Or at least doesn't want to be Alice anymore. At least I was correct that Alice thinks the buzzer could fix her the way it might be able to fix Marquis, though I really don't think it would work on her that way.

Ryan finally admitting her feelings for Sophie, about fucking time. Just because they're gay doesn't make their straight drama from these last few episodes cool.

With only two episodes left this season, things are certainly shaping up to be an interesting finale. As critical as I'm being on this whole Joker 2.0 plotline, I do think this is the best season of the show. I think they've really hit their mark now and I hope it continues in the next season. The whole half-season approach has proved to be a good choice and maybe it was what the Arrowverse as a whole really needs. It's been working for Legends, Stargirl, and Superman & Lois too. But we'll see where things go in about three weeks on February 23rd with DC's Batwoman 3.12 "We're All Mad Here"

[crypticbeliever123]

For the fake geek boys who don't get it:

Arrow basically rewrote Oliver's entire personality into a brooding grimdark persona as opposed to his quippy lighthearted comics persona.

The Joker is just an amoral sadist/anarchist and not complex at all considering he just does stuff for shits, giggles, and pissing off Batman.

Superman, although cheesy at times, is not dumb and has actually been portrayed as incredibly intelligent depending on what comics you look to, and is a rather complex and well-developed character.

Batman literally has a BatFAMILY that he works with. See: Dick Grayson aka Nightwing aka Robin number 1, Jason Todd aka Red Hood aka Robin number 2, Tim Drake aka Red Robin (ignoring the Bendis YJ comics) aka Robin number 3, Barbara Gordon aka Oracle aka Batgirl number 1, Stephanie Brown aka Spoiler aka Robin number 4 aka Batgirl number 2 (or 3, I'm not sure if Cass took up the mantle first or not after Babs), Damian Wayne aka Robin number 5, Cassandra Cain aka Batgirl number 3 (or 2, again not sure if Steph had the name before her) aka Black Bat aka Orphan (most people dislike this name because she was adopted by Bruce pre-Flashpoint and is thus undeserving of the name Orphan), Kate Kane aka Batwoman, Luke Fox aka Batwing, Duke Thomas aka Signal and I think he went by Robin for a little bit during this whole Robin army thing, Harper Row aka Bluebird, and last but certainly not least Alfred Pennyworth aka the most badass butler on the planet! And there's probably people I'm missing. Seriously! Bruce hasn't worked alone since early 1940 back when Robin and the rest of them didn't exist! And Batman was created in 1939! He was a solo act for like a year at most!

Robin isn't stupid as a character because you have a large and ever-growing number of variants to pick from and analyze from goofy circus dork Dick Grayson to far too serious for a 10 year old vegan murderer with a soft spot for animals. Now as a concept I suppose you could argue that the revolving door of Robins is a bit dumb and that letting a kid join you in your crusade against criminals is stupid BUT Bruce does his best to keep them safe and Robin has only become a legacy after Jason's death because Bruce didn't want another Robin after that but Tim Stubborn-as-hell-and-even-smarter Drake pushed and pleaded and begged him to take him on as Robin because he couldn't convince Dick to take the job back and was thoroughly convinced Bruce needed a Robin for his own wellbeing and things spiraled from there.

Cassandra Cain is the daughter of David Cain and Lady Shiva-(she is regarded as the best combatant in the entire DC universe) who was taught violence as her first language deprived of speech, writing, and also sign language (I think) who thus learned to read people like open books and upon being forced to kill at a young age saw death through the eyes of her victim just from reading their body language and was horrified and vowed to never kill again. Eventually she became Barbara's apprentice and was later taken in by Bruce as the new Batgirl and member of the ever-growing Wayne family, slowly learning how to speak and read. She's my favorite Batgirl and I haven't even read a lot of her appearances yet.

As I said before there's been like 5 Robins not counting alternate realities such as Carrie Kelly in the Dark Knight Returns storyline, or future timelines such as Matt McGinnis in the recent Batman Beyond comics (for a brief time, he quit pretty early because the Joker kidnapped him and his brother, the Batman of the era, didn't want him to be in danger anymore and had only agreed to let his brother be Robin because he didn't trust Bruce not to undermine his decision on the matter and figured keeping him close would be better than risking him going on a solo patrol)

Aquaman is far from useless. He's literally king of 75% of the planet's surface, can control sea monsters (it ain't just fish people, seriously he controlled a Kraken in his movie), has super strength and durability arguably on par with Superman, commands the entire army of Atlantis (which goes all WW3 against the Amazons in the Flashpoint timeline, yeah they go to to toe with Wonder Woman's people and can actually hold their own against them; I think they lose but still). He's half human half Atlantean and serves as the bridge between the land and sea. I could go on but if the Aquaman movie didn't convince you chumps how much of a badass he is nothing will.

I have nothing to say on the Miller-gasm front.

Alan Scott, Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, John Stewart, Kyle Rayner, Simon Baz, Jessica Cruz, Sojourner "Jo" Mullein, Jade aka Jennifer Lynn-Hayden, Tai Pham, etc. Google those names with the words "Green Lantern" for more details.

Comic books were invented by Jewish men and immigrants and were born in social justice and politics. Captain America punches Hitler on the cover of his very first appearance, Superman fights the KKK in an early issue, etc. Literally they have never not been political or social and if you want to read something without it, well ditch comics but buddy boy this ain't the genre for your triggered ass. Yeah. I went there, snowflake.

I'm not sure about the adaptation one because even the comics sometimes ruin the characters. See: any comic where Batman assaults his own children for proof.

I have neither seen nor read Watchmen and probably never will so I'm going to skip this one. That said, from what I know of the plot I can appreciate the fact it let its villain be smart and trigger doomsday before monologuing.

Batwoman may have been invented to make Batman seem less gay and pedophilic (people thought he and Robin were sleeping together in early comics) but she has been an out and proud lesbian since they introduced her new incarnation Kate Kane in 2006 who is a Jewish lesbian cousin of Bruce on his mother's side of the family, meaning Bruce himself is also Jewish fyi.

He literally has had biological children with her in a number of timelines and realities the most prominent being the New52 Jon Lane-Kent and Rebirth comics Jon Samuel Kent. They wouldn't exist if he couldn't have sex with Lois.

Imma say this once so listen closely. She-Hulk is the Hulk's COUSIN! SHE ALWAYS HAS BEEN! Her first appearance introduces her as such and then he gives her a blood transfusion transforming her into She-Hulk!

Not all teen heroes are sidekicks. See: the original teen hero not to be a sidekick, Peter Parker aka Spider-man (he's not a teen anymore), as well as Ms. Marvel, Wiccan, Hulkling, Miss America, Miles Morales aka Spider-man, Kitty Pryde (she works in a team and unless I'm mistaken is not treated as just a tag along so she counts in my book), the first Captain Marvel aka Billy Batson (yes DC had the name first), Superboy (he was a solo hero in his first appearances prior to the formation of Young Justice and I'm pretty sure has never fallen into sidekick territory with Superman following his return from the grave), Nova aka Sam Alexander, Squirrel Girl (I think. She's a teen, right?), etc (meaning I don't want to name anymore)

None of the Robins are copies of Batman, and not just because they don't have Bat in their name. Dick is funny and goofy and lighthearted. Jason is sassy and willing to do things Bruce wouldn't such as kill. Tim is far more trusting of the people he works with. Damian has had to fight every instinct he's been brought up with to kill and still struggles with it, he also has less empathy for other people than Bruce does. I don't know enough about Stephanie to write a comparison here. I also don't know enough about the Flash fam and their personalities to do comparisons there. Roy Harper aka Speedy aka Red Arrow aka Arsenal is a bit more aggro and less responsible (See: the story arc where he does heroin) than Oliver Queen aka Green Arrow. Like, just because a lot of sidekicks have similar names to the heroes they work with doesn't make them copies of the heroes. It just means writers back then were either lazy or were too preoccupied with making the names mesh well in a team uniformy kind of way to be original.

Founding members of the Avengers in the comics: WASP, Iron Man, Ant-Man, Thor, and Hulk. (Yes, Captain America was not a founding member. He joined in issue 4)

Wasp became a hero to avenge her father's death. She wasn't even married to Hank at first.

Batgirl was only turned into a love interest by the animated series to explain the falling out with Nightwing in a really terrible way. She has otherwise never been romantically involved with Bruce, not a single version and there have been at least three to my knowledge and most if not all of them began as teenagers.

Barbara became Oracle following the Killing Joke, using her intellect and computer skills to take down crime and found the Birds of Prey to break down even more criminal rings.

No comment on Rorschach. Again never read or watched Watchmen.

I'm not even sure what that point means.

The Amazons don't truly hate anyone. What's that Wonder Woman saying? "We have a saying, my people. 'Don't kill if you can wound, don't wound if you can subdue, don't subdue if you can pacify, and don't raise your hand until you've first extended it."' - Wonder Woman #25 (2008), script by Gail Simone. Does that sound like something a man-hater would say? To extend a hand first to all? Nope. It's not. Men may not be their favorite people but they don't hate them.

Joker abused and manipulated Harley into loving him. See: Batman episode "Mad Love". She eventually dumps Joker, breaking free of his physically, mentally, and emotionally abusive grasp. Ivy is also her girlfriend in numerous storylines and they tend to be a much healthier relationship overall.

That is all.

How to spot a fake geek boy:

thinks Arrow is the best thing ever

is obsessed with the Joker

thinks Superman is dumb/shit talks Superman